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Current & possible future uses for QT
Branched from topic: Take It Offline discussion (from TBTF for 1999-10-05)

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61
roberta lampmann karn
05-03-2002
04:29 PM ET (US)
Did any of you see the Qt from Chester? Seems he knows how to clean ceiling fans. Maybe we can start him up in business.
60
roberta lampmann karn
05-03-2002
04:28 PM ET (US)
On my way home this afternoon almost ran over a vixen with her four kits. He kits must have been six weeks old and so cute. The mama got across the road with two of her kids, one ran up the hill he or she had come from and the fourth took on the car. He tried to stare me down and then decided he wasn't as big as he thought and ran after his mother. Hope the other one on the hill found his relatives. Living in the country is the best ever.
59
roberta lampmann karn
05-03-2002
04:16 PM ET (US)
Chester, since you are an expert in cleaning ceiling fans, does that mean you are in the business? I'll be sure to give you a call the next time my fan needs someone who knows how.
58
John DeBruyn
04-01-2001
03:54 PM ET (US)
Hi Dan and Steve:

I appreciate your considering an administrative option for a "no general comment" mode in the Doc Review review set up.

I have reread Dan's comments and further reflected on the retention of the orange "Post a new comment" button on the blue bar in the Doc Review set up. The buttons retention was urged as a way to minimize the learning curve of the user who moves from Quick Topic to Doc Review.

My concern was that QT users would not break their habit of using the "Post a new comment" button to comment and that would create a bias in favor of general comments including general comments that should really be specific comments.

So I would like to suggest tranining wheels as a compromise.
Pressing the "Post a new comment" button would give the user a help screen about to "How to add comments" that would explain the blue munchie and tell the user where the blue munchies hang out. The button's name would probably best be something like "How to add comments." This way users who shot first (the group I am trying to deal with) and ask questions latter will get their question here answered first.

Thanks,

John
57
Dan Kalikow
03-29-2001
07:15 PM ET (US)
As far as I understand what's at issue here, and what **Steve**'s contemplating -- I gotta say I'm uncomfortable with the idea of eliminating the Comment Forum view from QTDR. It's the basis for transferring many user skills from QT to QTDR.

Perhaps the Comment Review screen might be segmentable if the doc is long and replete with many comments... But I still maintain (and natch I defer to others' opinions on this -- especially **Steve's** as he's "more equal" that others of us kibitzers <G>) that Comment Review is optimized to be used at the wrapup stage, by authors wishing to transfer the sum total of the wisdom added to the doc by the various reviewers, to the next rev of the doc. And the Topic View, with all its sorting methods, is the best (and most familiar) venue for making item-specific, and yes general, comments.

Perhaps (??) part of the issue you're grappling with, **Steve**, is the imho-still-confusing means in the Comment View that users have to grok in order to sort the Comments by Item #, and then to control the temporal-sorting-within-the-same-Item-#. You'll prolly recall a long discussion (I think it was around January -- I vaguely recall I was about to leave Engage <G>) where I recommended that the blue-bar show what sorting order was in force when the QTDR Comments were sorted by Item. Right now, all that is hidden, and it will take a fairly experimental-minded user to dope out how to sort the entire comment view by Item # rather than just temporally.

Whereas imho if the blue-bar told 'em what was being sorted on (time vs item number) and then what order it was being displayed in (recent at top or bottom, low item #s at top or bottom) all that might be both clearer and more useful. But that may be yet another pre-beaten dead horse... <G>

Anyhoo, in my view there are more high-payoff (and possibly harder-to-implement) things that I'd recommend you tackle sooner than any wholesale tinkering with these two highly evolved views...

Like, for example, providing that means of allowing Posters to select which major view (Doc or Topic) they'll go to after SUBMITting... or maybe

Providing a means for a user to edit any of their comments, recent or non... or (perhaps even harder)

Providing a means, within the doc form itself, to navigate between next and previously-commented munchies (last or next sunglasses). Especially in large, sparsely-commented docs, it is hard for authors to see "where the next/prev action is" without that sort of facility. I realize that the Comment Review view is partially useful for that problem, but as it's "out of context" (shows only commented items) and read-only to boot, it's not quite as apt for navigational purposes.

Or hey, whattabout all that "nice, but still in-your-face" Registration-has-its-privileges marketing... Over to youse other sidewalk superintendents! :-)
56
John DeBruyn
03-29-2001
06:36 PM ET (US)
P.S. to 55: Re-reading Dan's comment. What I asked for was the quick and dirty solution to the tilt towards general comments rather than specific comments in the existing set up. Yes the solution was Drakonian but that is the dirty part of quick and dirty. J.
55
John DeBruyn
03-29-2001
06:33 PM ET (US)
Hi Dan and Steve:

I think Dan suggested sometime back in conjunction with our discussion of the FAQ type use Doc Review the idea that general comments could be managed as a specific comments to an item created for that purpose where "general comments" were relegated to the jump seat. I don't mind general comments in the existing general comment mode as the default
and the admin option of electing no general comments in the let's encourage general comment mode that Doc Review now operates.

Thanks so much guys for listening,

John
54
Steve Yost
03-29-2001
04:18 PM ET (US)
The only problem this presents is that when comments are numerous and/or long, you're dumped to a very long page by default. However, I think it's usually the case that there are a manageable number of comments on a document because the review tends to have a shorter lifespan, as opposed to regular forums that go on a long time.

Witness Jon Udell's document review -- a very substantial and wide-ranging document, which has only 48 comments after several months online. http://www.quicktopic.com/3/H/QBy8VC7YGoSGbu4q71

Nonetheless, come to think of it I could split the comment review display up into pages by document item count rather than by message count -- it'd just be a bit more work.
Edited 03-29-2001 04:18 PM
53
Steve Yost
03-29-2001
04:13 PM ET (US)
Here's a radical idea: eliminate the Comment Forum view entirely, and add the subscriber and signin/mytopics boxes to the Comment Review page. Also add a "sort messages by date" link that does that and elminates the document text.

That way you don't have these two competing looks for forums within a document review. True, doc review forums would look different than regular QT forums, but how bad is that? I'm thinking it's better than two different looks within one major feature area.
Edited 03-29-2001 04:13 PM
52
Dan Kalikow
03-29-2001
04:03 PM ET (US)
Posting collision! :-) FWIW, I ain't grokked the full implications of having Comment Review play a role in the commenting process, but (thinking back to the role at least **I** saw for it, it really isn't too relevant...)

Perhaps some of this can be alleviated by allowing the user to choose where s/he goes after posting -- back to the ms at that item, or back to the Topic comment area? That was also under some recent discussion in another Topic if memory serves...
51
Dan Kalikow
03-29-2001
04:00 PM ET (US)
Kibitzer's comment: If you're considering doing this **Steve**, may I express a preference towards having the default be to allow entry of general comments from the Doc Review page's top. And that removing this option should be relegated to the "fine-tuning" phases such as selecting classes of HTML to mark, selecting which particular items to mark and suchlike. My reason is strongly hinted at by **John** when he asks With this option what happens to the orange "post a comment" button on the blue bar in the Comment Forum?

If we're really gonna prohibit folks from making general comments on the ms as a whole, which I guess is the idea here, then John is apparently prepared to offer a "general comments" item somewhere (where? start or end?) to act as a magnet for all of those.

To support this new option, I don't see how the "normal" QT screen could have anything like the "Post a new message" or "Post a new comment" buttons in the blue-bar. The only way into the commenting mechanism would be thru the comment-munchies on the ms itself. This strikes me as kind of a draconian solution to a conceptual problem that most users, I contend, will have much trouble grasping after they see the diffs between General and Item-specific comments. Therefore imho it will greatly add to the dissimilarity of QTDR comment areas from normal QT areas, which I regard as a Confusing Thing, thus to be avoided.

I think that this is fine as an option for those authors who do not mind adding this new component to their Mss, but I don't tend to think that general mss for general review will "want" to be artificially structured this way. So while I can "get behind" this request as a valid customer need, I would rather see it as a non-default, less functional appearance of QTDR. :-) No offense meant, **John.**
50
Steve Yost
03-29-2001
03:58 PM ET (US)
Seems like in this mode, the "post a comment" button on the blue bar in the Comment Forum disappears. I'd still leave the "Add a general comment" link on the document page, since it sounds like you want to encourage item comments but not necessarily disallow general comments completely. Right?

In this mode, when you post a message, maybe you'd like to be sent to the Comment Review page (scrolled to the imte you just commented on) instead of the Comment Forum page. There should also be a "reply" link at the bottom of the set of comments on each item, which would just post another message on that item.

Hmmm, maybe Comment Review should really be the main message display mode -- I think you suggested this earlier, and it's starting to grow on me.
49
John DeBruyn
03-29-2001
03:46 PM ET (US)
Post script to 48: Think ahea.... ... need to add what happens (when the no general comment option is on) to the "Add a general comment" link when the document is displayed. J.
48
John DeBruyn
03-29-2001
03:36 PM ET (US)
Hi Steve:

That would be great: an admin option under the Admin/Delete link to disallow general comments. I see this as atleast a temporary fix to minimize the learning curve for newbies and the tilt of the current configuration of Doc Review that functions to encourage posting generally rather than to a specific item.

As discussed earlier, that option leaves open fashioning the document to be reviewed with a specific item for general comments. With this option what happens to the orange "post a comment" button on the blue bar in the Comment Forum?

Thanks so much for considering this,

John
47
Steve Yost
03-29-2001
10:14 AM ET (US)
So, John, to be clear: you want to be able to disallow general comments while still allowing item-specific comments?
If so, would you like this as an administrative option -- something you'd find under the Admin/Delete link?
46
John DeBruyn
03-29-2001
09:10 AM ET (US)
Hi Dan and Steve:

QTShare and the share-your-ideas forum are nifty I will have to get over their and help develop some synergy.

I have some participants, not many, interested in taking a run at the document review function in the QT project(s) that I tried recently to promote in the two discussion groups that I moderate.

I took a run with a rough and partial document that one of the participants is developing and is willing himself to be a guinea pig--he was hessitant to get at all involved anything techie, which makes him an excellent test case. He
wanted me to up load the document when he was ready. I asked him to send me a rough draft so that I could work through the process, making some suggestions on format et cetera.

But when I started in on that:

http://www.quicktopic.com/7/H/AKaBcHUVMcH2j/

I ran smack into how to work around the general comment which the current Doc Review set up will encourage while limiting specific comments.

I don't have the benefit of the experience with QT Doc Review that the two of you have but I would like a quick
fix--an opt out of general comments all togehter. The document can be itself configured to have a general comment item.

Sorry that I don't have more time to lay all this out with more explanation and to share with you my additional thoughts about other features of the Doc Review application
of QT.

Thanks,

John
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