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PJ: REAL Towncore

02:32 PM ET (US)
Yes, share it.
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
02:16 PM ET (US)
I'm cool with sharing it, yeah.
TheCapePerson was signed in when posted
01:52 PM ET (US)
everyone cool with sharing this link?
11:31 AM ET (US)
Oh, cool. Wolves surrender.
09:43 AM ET (US)
I have asked Flat to contact us in private in the main chat and hinted at missing information sources for us.

If we are lucky, we might notice someone lying. But I'm not sure if it is going to work. But I think it is worth a try.
09:29 AM ET (US)
I don't think Flat is in this Group.
AVs last post did not place him in town core.

On first glance the plan looks fine. But I will think about it later again.
TheCapePerson was signed in when posted
08:34 AM ET (US)
The below plans for the next night assume FF is confirmed town.

Libro is Wolf
Flat_Footed scries Mornshine. If Wolf, we win.
Book Wombat blocks Snowblaze. If no kill, probably Snow.
Totadile heals Valmark.
Valmark hieds behind FlatFooted. If FF and Val dead, then it's Tot.
Rogan shoots himself.

Worst case we lose 3 people and it is BW,Cao,Murska,Shal,Morn,RA vs Jeen vs Snow vs Tot.
If we don't get anything definitive, MornShine becomes Town and Snow may be clear if there is a kill.

Libro is Town
Book Wombat blocks MornShine.
Rogan kills Snow.
FF scries Totadile
Totadile heals FF
RA Tracks Totadile
Valmark hides... somewhere.

I'm not as confident about this plan, so looking for suggestions for it. We would get a definite answer on Totatdile and we know what Snow is for sure - she can still win if she's dead I believe. Murska has nothing done to him but I truest him mose out of the suspects (well, I guess behind Valmark). RA has a chance to lie to us but I don't know any way around that.
TheCapePerson was signed in when posted
07:48 AM ET (US)
Does Flat have access to this thread? I looked at AV/FF and the last that AV said was to scry Mornshine... I don't like it either, I just would be surprised with FF's earlier in game actions.
12:44 AM ET (US)
Hmm... I don't like flats explanation.
It's not really a bad explanation, but it was going against AVs Plan.

Why? Who had this idea? Where and when? Who knew about it?
TheCapePerson was signed in when posted
09:16 PM ET (US)
Just thinking things over - what has been done to check Snowblaze? Was it only Libro's ability? Is it possible that he's innocent but Snow (As Aphrodite) made herself look what she wanted to look like?
04:48 PM ET (US)
I agree. Knowing what Flat_Footed did and the result is vital. And we should not tell Jeen everything we know or plan.

He could easily side with the wolf team since they have a reason to kill me. I hope he is sincerely, but there is no guarantee for it.
TheCapePerson was signed in when posted
04:36 PM ET (US)
I don't think we can promise anything to Jeen until we have an answer from Flat_Footed. The only problem with Jeen's plan is that he's working under the assumption I could be evil and I'm not sure we want to tip our hand to that yet. My plan going forward.

If Flat_Footed scried MornShine
- As Wolf, we lynch MornShine and lockdown Totadile's night actions for lying.
- As Town, we include MornShine as Towncore (can't be Aphrodite, as they are Mason). Lynch Libro or Totadile.
If Flat_Footed redirected Totadile
Then killer is Libro, RA, or Valmark. We lynch one of those and I heavily suggest Libro.

If we get a wolf today, we should be able to win without you Rogan and we can give Jeen a win. But there's no way to promise that before FF gets online.

To elaborate on Jeen's plan - he's considered more people Towncore than we have. Which is honestly where I was before AV roped me in. I like it and he's definitely interested in solving it but he focuses fire on me or Snow when there are a few other options.
Edited 06-14-2021 04:46 PM
Book WombatPerson was signed in when posted
03:53 PM ET (US)
03:51 PM ET (US)
I have told Jeen we have access to this QT and he has a reply.

I would like to know what you think about this.

About night activities
I think a lot will depend on Flat. What will he tell us when he gets online.
Best case: Flatwe got a seer result for Morn.
We kill Tot today for lying. You share a drink with Morn. I am overwhelmed by grief about killing AV and Apogee, so I kill myself.
Next day, you lynch Morn and Game Over, Town Victory.
Book WombatPerson was signed in when posted
03:39 PM ET (US)
Just tell me who to have a night of inebriation with at dusk, I can't read people well.
totadileplayz does seem wolfy though, might be just me hating their poor grammar.
TheCapePerson was signed in when posted
03:31 PM ET (US)
Took a look at Jeen/AV a while ago, is there something specific in it that you wanted to bring up? It sounds like they want to kill Jeen (or want us to think they're going to kill Jeen).

I think this is also the post AV refers to below.
03:27 PM ET (US)
Everyone, please take a look at Jeens QT with AV.
03:18 PM ET (US)
If Flat is a wolf, seriously well played.
But I don't think so.

He might have had a reason to use a vortex power, but currently I don't think so.

My guess is, Tot is a wolf and this is a desperate plot to introduce paranoia and get someone important to be lynched.
01:37 PM ET (US)
Hello Shal.
I agree, it seems safe for you to get out of the shadows.

If tot is a wolf, he might want to trade himself for Flat. Tots power could allow him to survive the night unless we block and kill him.
Loosing Flat would mean we loose access to the alignment scry and every other dead power. It would be a serious blow to our toolbelt.

I am not sure about this, but I could see it.
On the other hand, I thought AV was a wolf, so my intuition should not be our best defense.
TheCapePerson was signed in when posted
01:24 PM ET (US)
I don't see any other Neutrals in the game and we'll have to wait on FF to confirm the second part. It seems weird that Totadile would lie about this since Flat isn't exactly someone that town seems willing to lynch. Not sure where the lie would get him if FlatFooted is basically confirmed town.

Go for it Shal, no reason to hide that. I think everyone has jumped to that conclusion.
Edited 06-14-2021 01:25 PM
a wild ShalPerson was signed in when posted
01:24 PM ET (US)
I think I should reveal as the child of hades since people have already come to that coclusion
01:09 PM ET (US)
So, what do we think about a possible redirection?

There are only two possibilities I can see.
1) An unknown neutral. Highly unlikely
2) Flat used a power of the dead.

Unless Flat confirmes 2, I think there was no redirection...
So Tot would be lying.

I had a bad feeling about his first posts today.
TheCapePerson was signed in when posted
01:04 PM ET (US)
I mean, it's not all bad, it might end up clearing the possibility of a Murska/Totadile team. And we're going after a good target today anyway. Just waiting to see what information FF has for us. I have a plan for tomorrow night, pending FF's result but I don't want to get ahead of things.
Book WombatPerson was signed in when posted
12:53 PM ET (US)
Sorry for not seeing AvatarVecna's message until CaoimhinTheCape messaged me. I closed that QT since AV died and forgot to reopen it. Also got all the notifications in a batch oddly.

EDIT: This is why I targeted Murska instead of Libro, welp.
EDIT II: Messed up didn't I... Oh well.
Edited 06-14-2021 12:57 PM
12:49 PM ET (US)
General Wombat! ;-)
TheCapePerson was signed in when posted
12:49 PM ET (US)
So, the post below is why I was surprised Murska got voided - I thought the intended target was actually Libro. Regardless, it looks like we're going to lynch Libro today.

Obviously AV scried both me and Murska but since the town wants to lynch Libro anyway I don't see a need to let wolves know. I'll copy what I was planning to post below, but I won't do it unless the votes really seem to change.

On the topic of Murska/Tot, there is a very small chance. BUT Murska was voided and Totadile sounds like he was redirected to himself. If both of those are true then neither did the kill > which means that can't be the team > which means Murska is inno.


[QUOTE=JeenLeen;25085507]Do we know Cao isn't a wolf?
I didn't have them in my list, but I forgot why.


I don't see why Murska couldn't be a Hard to Kill wolf. Did someone say AV scried them as Town?[/QUOTE]


All I know was AV was strangely sure he [Murska] was town.[/QUOTE]

AV's scries. I was scried as town Night 3. There was the chance that I was actually the Aphrodite who can change alignment appearance rather than doublevoter. When Zelphas was not the doublevoter it proved I was, which means that I can't change my alignment, which means that AV's scry of me as Town was accurate.

AV scried Murska Night 1. Again, there was the chance that he was actually the Aphrodite that can change alignment rather than hard to kill. Hence the Vig attack on him last night - if he lied about his role we would have a dead wolf. If he told the truth (Ares: Hard To Kill) he would still be alive.

Since this is coming from me, Rogan has this information too and can back it up. If I post the QT with the information you can "hear" it right from AV but that would give away all of AV's plans, which I'd rather not do right now.
Edited 06-14-2021 12:51 PM
12:48 PM ET (US)
There might be a low chance of a Murska, Tot team. If Murska was protected by the healer, he could survive, even as deceptive appearance.

Or did I miss something that would make this impossible?
Book WombatPerson was signed in when posted
12:46 PM ET (US)
Hello there!
TheCapePerson was signed in when posted
12:16 PM ET (US)
I'm considering jumping into Jeen's personal QT with AV to prove I'm trusted by AV and give some information but with everyone against Libro right now that seems unnecessary. Will wait till later if I do that at all.
TheCapePerson was signed in when posted
08:26 AM ET (US)
Now that I have 8 hours of Sleep, Murska should be 100% good. Forgot about the AV scry, but now that we know he isn't Aphrodite he should be fully clear.

Will add him to this chat if I get approval from you guys/making sure that there's no other option.
02:15 AM ET (US)
I'm at work now, so don't worry if you have to wait for a reply from me
12:56 AM ET (US)
Okay, I have sent a message.
He already knew he might be my target, so there was no need to explain this in greater detail.
11:36 PM ET (US)
I'm on mobile as well and won't be able (or rather, willing) to get online from PC until after work.

But I can send him a short message before I have to go.
I think I am going to use the AV QT for this, or do you see any reason to create another one?
TheCapePerson was signed in when posted
11:22 PM ET (US)
I agree with talking to him about why he was targeted - you might be the best person to do that (I'm also on mobile and won't be doing much in the way of posting till morning). Wouldn't bring him in to this chat yet but it's good that we've confirmed his role.
11:13 PM ET (US)
My Apogee QT with some input by AV. I don't think there is anything important for the current Situation, but I share anyway. Transparency should not hurt us here.

We need to cooperate and coordinate with Jeen some time before the night. I am willing to promise him to go unprotected for every night to come. My kill power is nice to have, but I am not the most important town role. FF is. He has a very flexible power selection. I won't kill myself while there are two wolves active, but will strongly consider to do so if necessary.

About Murska, I think he his town and we should talk to him. Explain why he was targeted and so on. However I would not send him an invitation to this QT at the moment.
10:47 PM ET (US)
One counterpoint to the possibility of Apogee sharing the QT links in the dead chat: I tend to think that BCH could win this way. We did not receive a narrator notice about a post-dead victory. Sure, there are many possible ways where the QTs are in the dead chat and BCH doesn't win. But I tend to think that it is more likely that AV is right.
TheCapePerson was signed in when posted
10:41 PM ET (US)
Thanks - I won't pop in to the AV/other people chats yet but may read yours - a lot of the wait will be for FF and RA to give input on their night actions and go from there.

The thing is, if FF was evil and redirected Totadile, it was unnecessary since A/V wasn't gonna be protected. All that is to say I still trust you FF, just confused.
10:36 PM ET (US)
I agree about not posting yet. Give the wolves some time to talk without knowing what we know.

The current posts in the main game thread make me feel like Tot as scrum.
But we should analyze and discuss this before calling anyone out.

I have AVs QT links to every living and some dead players. I will post them here soon. I was asked to avoid reading them while AV was alive, so I have no idea about the content yet. Here is my AV QT, the links are in there.
Please don't send them to anybody else without discussing them.
TheCapePerson was signed in when posted
10:27 PM ET (US)
I've reached out to RA, asking about their night results - hoping I get those back before flat_footed posts publicly so if RA covers for Mornshine we'd know.

But also, Flat_footed, what's up with having Totodile targetting himself?
TheCapePerson was signed in when posted
09:08 PM ET (US)
I'm leaning not to post this yet (haven't fully read through it) but let me know your thoughts. Will have some sort of post public and private soon.

Does anyone have access to AV's messages with the others? We'll need to check on how night actions went.

OK, so, for people who could have done the kill, I have: Mornshine, Murska, RA, Totadile, Valmark. We'll learn a lot from RA's results: if he calls Mornshine out we know they're not on the same team. If he says nothing happened, that means either RA and Mornshine are the team or RA is town and the killer is Totadile/Valmark/Murska carried the kill.

On a side note, I'm not sure if I'm ready to consider Murska as towncore yet - Libro has no reason to lie about Murska's parentage no matter what side he is on and everyone telling the truth about it doesn't indicate alignment.
Edited 06-13-2021 09:30 PM
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
08:58 PM ET (US)
By default, don't post this. If I die, discuss it among yourself and figure out what you wanna do with this situation. Look at the power use results and figure out what could've possibly happened in the night, who might be lying and who might be telling the truth, what wolf teams a particular lie would require, things like that. Alternatively, it might just end up being a good idea to give all of this information to the whole town and setting everybody's theory senses tingling.




Current Leans:

[spoiler=Leans/Reasons]AvatarVecna: Towncore
Reason: Narrator-confirmed.

Book Wombat: Towncore
Reason: Voided Xihirli N1, blocking both scum!vortex and scum!kill. If BW is scum, scumteam was throwing the game.

CaoimhinTheCape: Towncore
Reason: Scried as town. The four final votecounts confirm CaoimhinTheCape as Apollo/Smiles Like Sunshine, and thus cannot be Aphrodite/Deceptive Appearance. It's theoretically possible that flat_footed vortexed my scry despite not knowing who my scry was aimed at, but this would require remaining scumteam to be CaoimhinTheCape/flat_footed/Libro, and that would make 6 total wolves which feels like way too much. Occam's Razor says that Cao must be town.

flat_footed: Lock Town
Reason: Used a scry power on bladescape, and then outed bladescape as scum (whose death confirms the scry use). The only other person who can scry like that is me and I didn't scry bladescape so it must have been flat_footed. For flat_footed to be scum, you have to seriously consider that scumteam who has lost a single member of their team, and just had their scanner get targeted by four powers in the night, decides that the best move here is to have flat_footed waste a power on scrying his scumbuddy instead of stealing a QT or vortexing some townies, and then out his scumbuddy as scum so that the three neutral claimants can get in touch with wolves. Sacrificing a scanner in that good a position, when scumteam isn't in that bad a position, and spending a power you don't have to, just to get in touch with neutrals? Occam's Razor.

Jeenleen: Lock Neutral
Reason: Xihirli's narrator-confirmed role includes text to the effect that there is a Champion Of Hera in play, which the other child of Zeus has indicated they also received. The role definitely exists within the game, and given there are no counterclaims to JeenLeen's despite days and days to have done so, and given how every move JeenLeen has made has been transparently in pursuit of that goal, it's difficult to imagine any scenario where he is lying about this neutral claim.

Libro: Lock Scum
Reason: In the Libro/Apogee1 QT chat, Libro posted at 7:41am (a short quick message). 2 minutes later, in the JeenLeen/bladescape QT chat, the anonymous wolf contact for JeenLeen posted (a short quick message). One possible explanation is that a scum who is not Libro has been camping both chats for hours, waiting for Libro to post in his chat with me so he can make a post in the neutral/scum chat within minutes of Libro's post, thus framing the innocent Libro. There's two people this could theoretically be (MornShine or flat_footed), but frankly given how long they'd have to keep refreshing the page to ready this particular red herring, I doubt anybody would be trying to pull a deception like this. The other possible explanation is that Libro is scum and didn't realize I had access to the neutral/scum chat. Is being voided tonight.

MornShine: Strong Scum
Reason: On the one hand, MornShine is the other Demeter sibling. On the other hand, both the AV/MornShine chat and basically every single QT set up by Apogee has about a half-dozen too many unique views. In my mind, that's either MornShine sharing the links with scumbuddies (which would explain a few times in the mid-game where scum plans seemed to change to counter my plans), or Apogee sharing the links with deadchat for some reason. I can't rule the latter out, particularly because it would be a nice gesture to Batcathat to share QTs like that where the living can't know for sure if they have the QTs or not, but this is the reason the mason isn't in towncore. Another mark against them: ever since I basically cut ties with them out of paranoia, they've not said anything publicly or privately, despite previous level of activity in private. MornShine is being scried and followed tonight. I'm sure given all the information town would have from this post and from power results, the towncore could figure out if MornShine is legit or not.

Murska: Strong Town
Reason: Scried N1 as town. Could be Aphrodite/Deceptive Appearance, has claimed Ares/Hard To Kill. Libro claims to have scried Murska as Ares, but if scumteam is Libro/Murska that could be coordinated lying. If Murska is an Ares, then he is town. So I'm having Rogan shoot him tonight; if he survives, then Murska is Towncore. I mean...okay there's the possibility that the scumteam is Libro/Murska/baner, but that would be 6 scum which feels like too much, but this explanation also requires that scumteam has had the baner every night, knowing when I'm baned and not baned, and hasn't targeted me. for the sake of...getting town to trust them? And as the below will show, "baner who never blocks a kill" isn't exactly winning town points with me just for being cooperative. In any case, if Murska and Rogan both die, it's because Murska lied to me about his power just for the same of getting another dead townie, in which case he'd be confirmed scum.

Rogan: Towncore
Reason: D2 was an argument between the scum!vortexer and the vig about whether the vig should die or not. These arguments do not feel like scum/scum. Additionally, the scum!vortexer was lynched and flipped scum, making vig look much better due to being the target of the dead wolf's ire. For Rogan to be scum, scumteam would have to look at this situation and decide that the best option on N2 would be for the essentially-in-the-clear vigilante to shoot the network hub, in a way that would be obvious to everybody that the vig was responsible for the kill. Furthermore, on N3, Rogan shot Elenna, who flipped scum.

rogue_alchemist: Weak Scum
Reason: D2, claimed to have targeted AvatarVecna, but received results as if they targeted themselves. Elenna privately claimed to have redirected RA to target Valmark. Valmark is the Hermes/Strategic Placement, who was hiding behind rogue_alchemist. This is a plausible series of events, but not the only plausible theory: maybe instead, RA targeted Valmark initially, but targeted themselves instead. Wolfteam has two of the three vortexers, so deduces that Valmark must be the third. Wolves have RA publicly claim to have been vortexed, and then have another wolf privately claim to the network to have vortexed RA into targeting Valmark instead of AV. Now they've got two wolves who both got to use their powers, and their making use of the wasted track as a way to build towncred for at least one of them.

Additionally, bladescape died with a track on them. Thus, rogue_alchemist should know that their track got redirected to bladescape. Book Wombat claimed voider (which town collectively figured was a towncore role), claimed to have targeted Valmark N2 and been redirected to bladescape (like RA was redirected the same night, when targeting the same person), mentioned an early subtle claim, and nobody counterclaimed the voider claim. After all this, rogue_alchemist comes into private chat with me with the theory that Book Wombat is maybe the scanner, on account of targeting Xihirli then bladescape (by accident), then Elenna. It looks bad, until you realize that bladescape didn't have a Booster power on them when they died, which they would have if this theory is correct, and rogue_alchemist should know that because checking that kinda thing is how you would gather evidence for a theory like this, and then realize it's not viable when you can't find any. On the one hand, it stinks of scum desperately trying to get me to lynch my voider; on the other hand, it could just be sloppy town play. Neither of these cases means much on their own, but collectively it makes me lean scum on RA, and less trusting of what they tell me.

Shal06: Towncore
Reason: Necromancer who passed along every message I gave them dutifully, and later rezzed me. If Shal06 is scum, scum threw the game, full stop.

Snowblaze: Lock Neutral
Reason: Zelphas is confirmed as Hunter Of Artemis. Snowblaze is the only person who has claimed to be hunted, even after Zelphas' goal became narrator-confirmed public information. The biggest mark against her is that Libro confirmed her role to me, which could be a lie to protect a scumbuddy, but it means that despite Snowblaze publicly stating that she was the target and thus had ulterior motives to want him dead, we still have yet to hear anybody speak up to counterclaim. Occam's Razor, she's telling the truth.

totadileplayz: Weak Town
Reason: Baner who hasn't blocked a kill yet. N3 I had them target Valmark, and I had Valmark target me, with neither of them knowing about the other's plan (unless the scumteam is totadileplayz/Valmark). totadile claimed the bane didn't block a kill, which isn't what a scum!baner trying to win townie points would do. There's potential situations where the baner is scum, but like...okay, the aforementioned totadile/Valmark chain requires scum!totadile to obey the network and bane Valmark, with the knowledge that Valmark is probably the third vortexer. If I were in their position, sacrificing myself to kill the network head might've been a good play in this particular situation: don't bane who you're told to bane, get the network hub/seer killed, and just trust the odds that the vig won't have the aim that would make your scum!bane necessary later in the game. Why obey the network for townie points when you can sacrifice yourself to decapitate it? totadile has privately said that a hail mary of taking me out would be the best move for scumteam; either it works and they're miles closer to winning, or they fail and they're not in that much worse a situation than they already were.

Valmark: Strong Town
Reason: was the final vote on Xihirli, which made Xihirli either the leader in votes (from number of people voting) or tied for the lead (if the double-voter was on the other wagon). Either way, if Valmark was scum, then Valmark made that vote knowing he was increasing the odds of a wolf lynch by 50% from whatever the odds were before he voted. I could see somebody doing this, although it's quite a bastard move, but Valmark is tentatively cleared.[/spoiler]

Leans from towniest to scummiest summarized:[list]
[*]Book Wombat[/COLOR]
12:20 PM ET (US)
Okay, I just thought I should mention it.

I still think our chances are good but obviously the wolves will force us to fight for it.
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
12:14 PM ET (US)
You should be fine so no worries there.
12:02 PM ET (US)
Okay. Please mind I will probably go to bed about 3 hours before EoN. If you need me to change my action, let me know in time.
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
11:23 AM ET (US)
Somebody slipped up in the night. I'll make a big post about stuff closer to End Of Night.
10:57 AM ET (US)
I always get nervous when I see *Deleted by author*

Is everything going according to the plan?
Deleted by author 06-13-2021 09:50 AM
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
07:02 AM ET (US)
"But BW had a public claim on page 27? Is there enough misdirection going on in the background to make the wolves doubt this claim?"

We're honestly getting into WIFOM at that point - maybe wolves believe the claim on face value, maybe the wolves assume that I'm having somebody fakeclaim voider to draw a kill, but they have to know that regardless of what they believe, it could be the other way around. rogue_alchemist knows for a fact that BW targeted Elenna N3, and everybody knows that the voider targeted bladescape N2 (which matches BW's claim). If RA is a wolf, BW dies tonight. If RA isn't a wolf, BW maybe dies tonight. But we're catching them all regardless.

"Again, sorry about that."

No need to apologize - really, the fact that I've been resurrected is probably what's winning the game for town, since I'm trustworthy now and have the patience to run the network properly.

"Is there clarification about the interaction of hades power and the scanners charges? I mean, can we use the same scanner power multiple times?"

My expectation is that they can only use each scanner-gained power a single time, but we can ask.
05:50 AM ET (US)
"Libro has been targeting other people each night and shouldn't know that BW is the remaining Dionysus."

But BW had a public claim on page 27? Is there enough misdirection going on in the background to make the wolves doubt this claim?

"It's not something I would've done if I was leading the network at the time, but I wasn't in charge then because I was dead. "

Again, sorry about that.
And on the bright side, we can take advantage of this power later.
Is there clarification about the interaction of hades power and the scanners charges? I mean, can we use the same scanner power multiple times?
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
05:12 AM ET (US)
And just in case it wasn't obvious, please don't void Murska, void Libro.
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
05:12 AM ET (US)
Appreciate the assistance with misdirecting there, BW. :)

"What do you think about the chances of Team wolf going against Book Wombat?"

I'll say that I'm not concerned about it. We know voids happen before kills (because the NK was voided N1), and we know that even if somebody dies to the NK their power still goes through (because my N1 scry still returned info), so BW's target should be voided even if BW dies tonight.

Last night, rogue_alchemist saw Book Wombat target Elenna. RA is concerned that BW is the Booster and is on the wolf team, or at least is playing as if that their concern. Libro has been targeting other people each night and shouldn't know that BW is the remaining Dionysus. If BW dies and Snowblaze leaves/checks out, we've lost 2 votes but we still have control of the network and the lynch by a mile. We're in a worse position, but not a bad one. If BW dies and Snowblaze doesn't leave, what happens instead is that she devotes herself to hunting wolves because town wouldn't sacrifice one of the towncore just to screw over a neutral.

"By the way, do we know when/how blades got the healing power?"

bladescape convinced Apogee she was town and the Scanner, and the idea was that the night after, we would have two banes to throw around. It's not something I would've done if I was leading the network at the time, but I wasn't in charge then because I was dead.
02:18 AM ET (US)
What do you think about the chances of Team wolf going against Book Wombat?
If a neutral has to leave the game after the victory condition in impossible to fulfill, killing him would reduce the number of voters by 2 instead of one. (Does anybody know what happens after a neutral loss?)
There might also be a chance of the wolves going against BW to spite Snow.
Or Snow getting angry about us, since we lynched one of her wards and did not protect the other one.

If we want to protect BW, we have two options, I think.
We can ask either tot or flat to change targets.
By the way, do we know when/how blades got the healing power?
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
09:50 PM ET (US)
CaoimhinTheCape has been confirmed as Apollo/Smiles Like Sunshine, and thus my scry couldn't have been inaccurate, and so they are being invited into towncore.
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
09:41 PM ET (US)
AvatarVecna: rogue_alchemist
Book Wombat: Libro
flat_footed: scry MornShine
JeenLeen: nobody (hopefully)
Libro: MornShine
Rogan: Murska
rogue_alchemist: MornShine
totadileplayz: flat_footed
Valmark: Snowblaze
Edited 06-13-2021 09:50 AM
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
09:21 PM ET (US)
Rogan, please target Murska.

Book Wombat, please target Libro.
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
08:57 PM ET (US)
I did not intend to out MornShine today. I haven't scried him, and I thought of a plausible explanation where he's not a wolf, so I'm gonna scry him tonight. I wanna be sure.
02:33 PM ET (US)
Do you plan to out Mornshine today?
Depending on the results of this day, I could handle this tonight.
But if we catch a wolf today, I think I could safely commit suicide to let Jeen win.
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
04:43 PM ET (US)
I made a big post about it, but long story short, it was confirmation that you killed Apogee N2 that convinced me you were torn. If you're a wolf, then D2 was you vs Xihirli (which is scum v scum), where Xihirli lost and flipped wolf. Anybody looking at that day would be more inclined to believe you're town. But if you're scum, then that means that this is the point where scumteam...decides to have you out yourself as a wolf by killing Apogee? Makes no sense. More likely explanation is that you were vortexed by Elenna.
04:36 PM ET (US)
About being invited to Towncore by AV (and as a short way to say hi in here):
Slightly ironic I gained your trust by killing you. Well, probably it's rather the way I have handled this kill afterwards.
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
12:49 AM ET (US)
And since bladescape was a wolf that kinda got baned N2, I can only assume that your void prevented the kill. Congrats, you've stopped 2 of the three wolf kill attempts.
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
12:48 AM ET (US)
@Book Wombat You targeted Valmark N2, who was hiding behind bladescape. Thus, bladescape was voided. rogue_alchemist also targeted Valmark, and received information about bladescape, so your void didn't affect Valmark but rather the person he was hiding behind. Presumably, vortex abilities take precedent.
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
08:36 PM ET (US)
Book Wombat: Dionysus/Drunken Fun
CaoimhinTheCape: Apollo/Smile Like Sunshine
Elenna: Dionysus/Induce Madness
flat_footed: Hades/Command Spirits
JeenLeen: Champion Of Hera
Libro: Athena/Deduction
MornShine: Demeter/Sibling
Murska: Ares/Survivor
Rogan: Zeus/Lightning Control
rogue_alchemist: Hermes/Light Of Foot
Shal06: Hades/Highway To Hades
Snowblaze: Ariadne
totadileplayz: Poseidon/Healing Waters
Valmark: Hermes/Strategic Positioning
Zelphas: Artemis
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
08:29 PM ET (US)
If I die, kill MornShine. If MornShine flips scum (as I'm almost certain they will), then you've got totadile or Valmark caught as well, and you can feel free to invite the other 3 strong leans into the towncore. But don't do it before you see MornShine flip - as confident as I am, at this point I don't want to take bets like this.
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
08:11 PM ET (US)
If I die, pin MornShine and either Valmark or totadileplayz to the wall for me. Prove yourself trustworthy however you can. Contact people through my private QTs with them. Share this QT if that's what it takes to get town to trust you.
Edited 06-10-2021 08:32 PM
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
08:06 PM ET (US)
If you got a link from me to "PJ: Towncore", that link was very briefly present in the MornShine private chat. I don't think anybody saw it, but I can't guarantee it's safe, so assume that chat is compromised, and only post there if you have reason to believe wolves are reading and you wanna throw them off.
Deleted by author 06-10-2021 08:11 PM
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
07:25 PM ET (US)
After some thought, Book Wombat has been added to towncore.
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
07:13 PM ET (US)
Actually, I guess if I'm dead in two hours, then the game is essentially solved: Elenna is lockscum and probably deadly, either Valmark is dead (and totadile is scum) or Valmark is alive (and Valmark is scum), and then MornShine is scum. That's three wolves on top of the two dead already.
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
07:12 PM ET (US)
If I'm dead in two hours...

...best of luck.
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
07:10 PM ET (US)
Current action assignment:

AvatarVecna: CaoimhinTheCape
Book Wombat: Elenna
Elenna: Zelphas (Zelphas)
flat_footed: bladescape/flat_footed (MornShine) (so scrying mornshine)
JeenLeen: -
Libro: Murska
Rogan: Elenna
rogue_alchemist: Book Wombat
Snowblaze: Zelphas
totadileplayz: Valmark
Valmark: AvatarVecna
Zelphas: Snowblaze


1) If I die, but Valmark doesn't, then Valmark is a traitor. If both Valmark and I die, totadileplayz is a traitor.

2) If Elenna dies and rogue_alchemist says Book Wombat didn't target Elenna, rogue_alchemist is a traitor. If Elenna is alive and rogue_alchemist says Book Wombat targeted Elenna, rogue_alchemist is a traitor.

3) If Libro says Murska is anything other than Ares/Hard To Kill, they can't both be innocent; at least one of them is lying to me.
Edited 06-10-2021 08:41 PM
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
07:08 PM ET (US)
Don't got out guns blazing D4 pointing at MornShine...at least, not unless I'm dead. Then just use your best judgement. No, my plan is to wait until we're about halfway into the day and have some analysis going before I drop that knowledge bomb on everybody.
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
07:03 PM ET (US)
You may notice that none of those listed reasons are "they are the other mason". That's because it turns out I was wrong to assume the masons were on the same team. MornShine is the other mason, and has access to every chat Apogee created as well as the chat I made with them. With only a few exceptions, every single one of those chats has way too many unique views. They're compromised. Somebody shared the links, and while it's possible that a very lucky power use by flat_footed N1 would've gotten all the Apogee links later, it wouldn't explain why the AV/MornShine QT is compromised.

The mason is scum.
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
07:00 PM ET (US)
Current towncore:

1) Me. I am confirmed town.

2) Shal06. They are the necromancer who resurrected me. If they are scum then they basically threw the game.

3) Rogan. Per the PM I'm going to send, I've been convinced since before I resurrected that Elenna is scum and Rogan is town. If Rogan is scum, scumteam basically admitted the outed vigilante is a wolf for no reason, and was essentially throwing the game.

4) Book Wombat. N1 they voided Xihirli, resulting in no scum-kill and no scum-vortex. If this was a wolf sabotaging another wolf, they're basically throwing.



Current strong town leans, subject to change depending on night results:

1) Murska. was scried N1 as town. However, Murska might be lying and be the Aphrodite/Deceptive Appearance player. If Libro doesn't say Murska is this or the Ares role, then I'm inclined to believe Murska is telling the truth and is town, and he should be invited into the towncore properly.

2) flat_footed. Is confirmed as using a scry power on bladescape N2. Even in a weird scenario where ff/bs are a scumteam and scumteam has agreed to bus bs to give ff towniecred, ff wouldn't waste a power usage on bs unless he really wanted to sell this particular narrative. So, if flat_footed is scum, it means scumteam deliberately wasted a power use and sacrificed a wolf to get ff trusted temporarily. This isn't completely implausible, but I find it highly unlikely.

3) Valmark was the seventh vote on Xihirli, when their were six people voting Snowblaze (and seven votes). Even if Valmark knew Cao was the double voter somehow, I don't see scum!Valmark taking us from a 0% chance of dead wolf to a 50% chance of dead wolf. The only plausible explanation is that Valmark just completely missed the fact that that ties are settled by coinflip instead of by who reached the vote total first.

4) totadileplayz. I'm disinclined to think a baner could be scum, but I can't really guarantee that they're town. We'll know a good deal more after we see the night results, and if we're both alive we can discuss whether we want to invite him into the towncore or not.
Edited 06-10-2021 07:23 PM
AvatarVecnaPerson was signed in when posted
06:53 PM ET (US)
...here's where things are gonna start getting weird.

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