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Mini-Mafia Interesting Facts God QT

78
Darg
07-10-2021
08:51 AM ET (US)
I completely disagree with the comments about JBH. He DOES have (or did have) the one characteristic necessary for our game. He wanted to play.

Telling him not to play is not cricket. Telling him, 'you did not notice the cop claim discussion, or seem to understand it... what were you thinking?' is worlds apart from telling him, (from his perspective) 'you did some mysterious thing wrong, and while you are not useless as a human being, you should not play again.'

We treat our newcomers abominably.

And we treat players who play differently than we do abominably.
77
Hamilton Brian
07-09-2021
08:55 PM ET (US)
Absolutely flabbergasted to have gotten NK’d. I think it’s a first, and more odd because I was scrambling on reads. My hard nulls were Damo and Vecna, so I had that early on. The rest?

Snowy, let’s chat. Detailed questions so I can respond accordingly. Thanks for the compliment by the way.
76
Hamilton Brian
07-09-2021
06:55 PM ET (US)
Hey all! F%%%. Sorry Bob and Snowy!
75
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-09-2021
05:25 PM ET (US)
Closing the game out lol
74
snowy801
07-09-2021
05:21 PM ET (US)
Also agree on set up: brutally punishing to a moderately unskilled town.
Some of our players (and every time I saw this, I say this without offense - it is not an indictment of your character to not be the greatest mafia player ever, it just means you're not the greatest mafia player ever... yet) don't even get a lick of sense on who actual scum is until like day 3/4, but this sort of set up is more appropriate for a team full of experienced and dedicated players (it'll be exciting at least)
73
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-09-2021
05:17 PM ET (US)
Okay, now I see Chaqa's point.
72
snowy801
07-09-2021
05:15 PM ET (US)
/m70 the thing is, to get better you have to want to get better. JBH has one of the two critical aspects: the ability to acknowledge his own shortcomings, but not the other: the ability to seek and absorb new information.

He seems content in his ignorance, and that is not a state of mind that can handle this sort of social game.
71
snowy801
07-09-2021
05:14 PM ET (US)
It's like some friends of mine who claimed Among Us is a socially unacceptable game that should be cancelled because pressuring people with questions is discriminatory to people neuroatypical and anxiety disorder/depressed people and I'm just like bruh you don't have to play

Not all games for all people.
70
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-09-2021
05:13 PM ET (US)
/m69 Going to say that they could get better... bozo is clearly not the Jester at all because if he was, he wanted to be flipped.
69
snowy801
07-09-2021
05:12 PM ET (US)
I don't think JBH is cut out for mafia, honestly. No offense, and I like his style, but the mentality isn't there.
68
snowy801
07-09-2021
05:09 PM ET (US)
Hard disagree. I would give up too
67
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-09-2021
05:09 PM ET (US)
Chaqa giving up right here is rather premature honestly.
66
snowy801
07-09-2021
05:06 PM ET (US)
Scenes when the scum team refuses to believe ghug and hammers JBH
65
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-09-2021
05:06 PM ET (US)
ghug was on it right away and willing to comply. Interesting...
64
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-09-2021
05:04 PM ET (US)
/m61 No comment in flavor was made, it was only sent directly to rdr to shame him for not submitting an order.
63
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-09-2021
05:03 PM ET (US)
My message to rdr:
You sat around in your squad car and decided to take a nap, only to realize that you'd fall into a deep sleep and fail to do your job...

(No order submitted for N2 :P)
62
snowy801
07-09-2021
05:03 PM ET (US)
Welcome again, Brian from Hamilton, Ontario
It seems we greet you here with alarming regularity
61
Darg
07-09-2021
05:01 PM ET (US)
Don't make a comment in flavor. Scum will assume ghug is cop
60
snowy801
07-09-2021
04:59 PM ET (US)
/m58 I mean sure, maybe. But have they considered who else it might be? Did they read the final seconds to understand what ghug, vecna and damo's last second swap to me implies? Or will they come into this game with a practically clean slate, only thinking "well bozo said snowy was scum and he's town so bozo must be scum let's end the day and think on the rest later"
59
snowy801
07-09-2021
04:58 PM ET (US)
In rdrivera's defense, as shallow as such a defense can only be for something this indefensible, he is in the best position to understand how lost this game is.
JBH's save was exciting when we saw it happening, but it isn't happening now and that is to be the default expectation.
58
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-09-2021
04:57 PM ET (US)
/m56 if that's the case, I'll be blown away. I expect that bozo is going to get hammered rather fast.
57
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-09-2021
04:56 PM ET (US)
I'm going to send RDR a snarky night result since he didn't enter in an order lol
56
snowy801
07-09-2021
04:56 PM ET (US)
I said it before, but I hate it.
I think it kills interest in the game and it's not like people came into day 2 with any meaningful understanding about the game that they otherwise wouldn't have.
I expect that we will see a similar situation "tomorrow" (i.e. 5 minutes from now), where everyone shows up and starts going "huh? What happened yesterday" as though the last 24 hours didn't even exist.
55
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-09-2021
04:54 PM ET (US)
I'm interested in what people think of these silent night phases. I kinda like them because it appears to keep some of the players able to stay more caught up than normal.
54
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-09-2021
04:52 PM ET (US)
It's incredibly sad to watch considering the stars aligned for the town to pull this off.
53
snowy801
07-09-2021
04:45 PM ET (US)
This is the greatest tragedy of the decade
52
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-09-2021
04:21 PM ET (US)
N2 Orders:
Mafia Kill HB
Mafia RB Ghug
JBH saves himself (*sad emoji*)
Rdr scans ???
51
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-09-2021
04:19 PM ET (US)
I don't have an order from Rdr yet...
50
snowy801
07-09-2021
02:12 PM ET (US)
Still 3 hours left
Take my energy horse man
49
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-09-2021
02:11 PM ET (US)
And honestly, it's still going to be a shit show anyways because scum + ghug can only tie the vote, not outright win.
48
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-09-2021
02:10 PM ET (US)
Incredibly sad to see honestly lol, I was looking forward to the shit show of D3.
47
snowy801
07-09-2021
02:08 PM ET (US)
gg
46
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-09-2021
02:05 PM ET (US)
ohhhhh noooo!!!!

From JBH:
Mr Worcej,

On further reflection, Doctor Bighorse has decided to heal himself this evening.

If he is right, that the clown is really a jester, perhaps he himself will be a target. However, since nobody listens to the Horse, maybe not.

The doctor will heal himself tonight.

JBH
45
snowy801
07-09-2021
01:44 PM ET (US)
After they die I really want to ask foodcoats and HB what their thoughts on the interaction between Bozo and I were, and how they perceived the sequence.

I think that may very well be the most blatantly obvious scum player I have ever seen in mafia. It was so absurdly obvious that I started doubting myself, thinking nothing could possibly be this obvious. But then, at the end of the day, I came back to him because being too obvious is not a reason to not scum read someone, but to do it more.

So from my perspective, right, it should equally be obvious to others. And it was, to a lot of the so called "vets".

If we were to reduce this game down to experience I'd say:

Experienced Town

rdrivera
Chaqa
dargorygel
snowy

Inexperienced Town
Hamilton Brian
foodcoats
Johnny Big Horse

Idk
BobMcBob
damo666

Experienced Scum:
Vecna
bozotheclown
ghug (Jester)

Right, and you can definitely see the flow of things.

Experienced town followed me onto the bozo wagon (obviously rdrivera already knew, but he suspected at night which is why he scanned): rdrivera, later chaqa
Experienced scum also followed me onto bozo -> the first peak, damo. the second peak, Vecna

This tells me that they also think bozo's scumminess is obvious, and that is the natural scum read / bus

You can also see the "experience" show in the PR claims. Vecna starts making a show of scum reading bozo immediately, and damo hops onto the wagon. Chaqa and rdrivera is on my side as well, but HB (to be fair, he missed the claims but he was there to see the first Bozo showdown) and foodcoats is not.

I don't say this to fluff myself up or berate anyone for being wrong, but you can definitely see the missteps made by the inexperienced that no vets would ever make, or even conceive of making. And I think it's important that we know how these situations are viewed from the perspective of those who haven't been there a million times, because it's not enough to just be right - you have to convince others that you're right too.

So, foodcoats, HB. What did you think about my Bozo arguments? foodcoats, what was going on through your head when Bozo made his claim? I know you said "I scum rd so" but surely you must've taken that thought deeper, at least surface level, to say: "this guy claimed, but someone else came out with a counter claim with a hard crumb on the other claimant, so I predict that rdrivera correctly read that bozo was cop and made this elaborate play, and am willing to weigh the unlikeliness of these events against how scummy I find rdr." Want to hear your thoughts.
Edited 07-09-2021 01:46 PM
44
snowy801
07-09-2021
12:33 PM ET (US)
Re: HB

I think his head and heart's in the right place. Just a little bit of refining and experience as a player and I think he'll be just fine, he has nothing to apologize for.

I always said the natural progression on learning to town is:

1) Be town read
2) Learn to listen to (the right) others
3) Start being right yourself
4) Turn into a toxic egotistical maniac

He's already got 1 on hard lockdown. He's going to punch through 2 quite fast and come into his own in 3, I have every faith.
Edited 07-09-2021 12:40 PM
43
snowy801
07-09-2021
12:30 PM ET (US)
Last second vote on me once it became clear it was going through

rdrivera commented on it, rightly. He'll lead town to the obvious conclusion

Also calling out ghug as doc like what? You have maf qt for that my friend

I think he made that last comment in the triumphant mood of the victorious, not knowing JHB is about to cockblock them in the most hilarious manner
42
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-09-2021
12:27 PM ET (US)
How did Vecna out himself exactly btw? I don't see it but then again I'm also not looking very closely.
41
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-09-2021
12:24 PM ET (US)
From HB:
Apologies Snowy; what this is telling me is how wrong my reads are. Seems I should take my reads and immediately reverse them. So where yesterday I was here:
Mafia pool: ghug, food, snowy, JBH (didn’t like the votes, etc)
Town: Chaqa, Rivera, Bozo, Darg (on account of agreeing that hitting jester is best)
Null: Damo, Vecna,

I should now revise it to be:
Mafia: Chaqa, Rivera, Bozo
Town: Ghug, Food, JBH, Damo, Vecna.

Which is all sorts of stupid.

I predict that any town on Snow’s wagon will not be night killed. There’s enough suspicion on that wagon. So I definitely won’t be a target.


With my absence yesterday I feel like I missed some big things that I need to backtrack on. I am reading that there was a guilty scan on Bozo, ghug is doc, Rivera is cop. But why did that wagon on Snowy “snow”ball? How did it get to 7 votes?

And what’s going on with JBH? Why was he so hesitant to move that vote?
40
snowy801
07-09-2021
11:56 AM ET (US)
I am also somewhat concerned that, with the relative accuracy of my reads, I might well end up helping scum identify PRs. They just have to remove themselves from the pool.
39
Darg
07-09-2021
11:53 AM ET (US)
Heya snowman... It's a common problem. Which means all the more we need to figure out what to do. Lately I have keyed in what a appears to be pr hunting.
38
snowy801
07-09-2021
11:37 AM ET (US)
Also I have a problem:

Snowy EoD1: "I am inclined to flash vote any of darg > JBH > rdrivera > damo > bozo in that order."
Snowy Near EoD2:

"In other news, I am moderately reconsidering my Vecna read. In retrospect, I don't particularly have any reason to town read him which is concerning.

bozo,
damo,
Johnny,
Vecna,
rdrivera"

You can see the issue clearly here. Aside from that unfortunate miss on darg, what is here? Scum... and PR. With almost perfect precision.

First quote: town > PR > PR > scum > scum
Second quote: scum > scum > PR > scum > PR

I mentioned it last game to God QT and kept thinking it this game too. While it is clear that my reads evolution is in a positive direction (I didn't try to vote out any of the PRs, at least) I still have immense trouble distinguishing the "this is not normal game play" scum vibes from PR vibes.

How do you guys approach this problem? What would you say are the best ways of identifying whether a player is playing as though they have something to hide... when they are scum, or PR?

rdrivera apparently left crumbs on his very first post (I should be looking at those more carefully) and I missed it. Should I be seeking those out? But I have limited time to play, and would one not argue this time is better spent game solving?

Send help.
37
snowy801
07-09-2021
11:20 AM ET (US)
I should also mention that when there is a cop claim and a counter claim you vote between the two, but obviously the scum team wasn't about to admit to that when HB gave them a free vote.
36
snowy801
07-09-2021
11:12 AM ET (US)
No, I'm not upset the day was lost when Hamilton Brian left with a vote on me to "keep things competitive," when there were 4 voting interests against town. The margin error was tiny, and the moment JBH declined to participate it was already over: foodcoats getting it wrong was just icing in the cake. Very tough set up for town, I think, and we're being absolutely bailed out (if nothing changes) by JBH's divine luck.

It would be kind of hilarious that a doc save happens here. Especially since I rather hope rdrivera will be cop scanning damo (Vecna outed himself and bozo is a known factor, and apparently he respected my reads / agreed with them anyway) and at that point I keep thinking "how does town lose this?" But then I look at these guys' track record and can definitely see him misvoting out foodcoats or something.

But oh well, it is what it is.
35
BobMcBob
07-09-2021
05:42 AM ET (US)
I am gonna laugh so hard if the scumteam actually does hit the docsave here. Also don't worry snowy, this was my first game getting miskilled as well. I blame the 24 hour day phase.
34
snowy80
07-09-2021
12:41 AM ET (US)
I would actually not save the cop tonight
Because I would predict that the mafia team will also believe this, and dodge the save. You can wifom this endlessly but I think I would just stop at step one

I don't claim that JBH is even remotely thinking about this, but anyway
33
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-08-2021
08:15 PM ET (US)
/m32 I mean, it's rather lucky, but if I was JBH and in this game, I now IMMEDIATELY know bozo is scum and rdr is the cop. Park that save on the cop!
32
snowy801
07-08-2021
06:50 PM ET (US)
/m30 wait isn't that actual god's hand?
31
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-08-2021
06:44 PM ET (US)
From Chaqa:
So, we have two chances:
1. The doctor makes a save tonight
2. We can convince the Jester to work with us instead of the mafia

Neither seems super likely. Fuckin idiots
30
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-08-2021
06:43 PM ET (US)
Yeah... I knew it that JBH isn't paying attention...

JBH is set to save HB -_-
29
snowy801
07-08-2021
05:47 PM ET (US)
I do want to add that I despise no night games. Literally terrible.

I'll come back later to do a retrospective.
28
snowy801
07-08-2021
05:46 PM ET (US)
> And you thought you couldn't get DK'ed... - worcej

Alright, look
I even correctly predicted that this game would be my first.
I was literally right about everything, and here we are.
Too good for this world, clearly. No self fault to be found, no sirree.
27
snowy801
07-08-2021
05:14 PM ET (US)
I must admit I am somewhat baffled.

Have these people never played mafia before? It's starting to feel like it.

We need more Snowy lessons on how to play mafia, but with PR theory this time.
26
snowy801
07-08-2021
05:11 PM ET (US)
Such is the cost of hubris
25
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-08-2021
05:11 PM ET (US)
Good old Webdiplo players lol... They believe the wrong claim over the right one.
24
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-08-2021
04:31 PM ET (US)
Eh, rdr's made it pretty obvious at this point if he is NK'ed that people go back and look.
23
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-08-2021
04:11 PM ET (US)
I am growing concerned rdr's gamble is going to backfire on himself if he doesn't say he has a scan on bozo.

I see him dying tonight and JBH won't save him.
22
Darg
07-08-2021
02:45 PM ET (US)
it is ALL because of my efforts.
Even though after my departure, a number have politely insulted me.

More seriously
Town has been very solvey.
21
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-08-2021
01:48 PM ET (US)
I'm not paying very detailed attention to the content of the game, but it is incredibly interesting to see how much the scum team is in the crosshairs during this game.
20
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-08-2021
01:44 PM ET (US)
From snowy:
Starting to actually think bozo isn't scum. If this is a scum tactic it's working remarkably well.

Either way, heavens save me from bullheaded morons.

I'm not ignoring him to be rude; I need him to talk about literally anything but myself so I can get a better grasp of the situation, because I've learned not to suppress my instincts and my instincts are telling me both that I'm on the wrong track and that Vecna is sus.
19
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-08-2021
09:22 AM ET (US)
From Vecna:
Well, this game once again feels like its off to a very rocky start. The entire scumteam is in a lot of people's crosshairs.

Should have listened to bozo and killed off snowy N1 lol. Should have also really refrained from townreading Bozo off of bullshit logic because it got sniffed out rightfully quick.
18
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-07-2021
11:08 PM ET (US)
From Snowy during night (forgot to post here):
tl;dr on my insane diatribe

I cannot be mislynched as town. It is a near divine power that I possess, and has withstood the test of time. I do not profess to be the greatest reader, or convincer of my innocence, or in any way good in the multi-faceted process that is playing mafia but in this one skill I reign supreme.

Now that I've said this of course this game shall be the first. Godspeed, citizens.
17
Darg
07-07-2021
10:42 PM ET (US)
Unless JBH sees it
16
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-07-2021
10:33 PM ET (US)
Yeah, I suspect rdr gets killed next night.
15
Darg
07-07-2021
09:43 PM ET (US)
Interesting play by rdrivera. I hope he remembers he can't talk at night.
14
Darg
07-07-2021
09:35 PM ET (US)
Thanks for taking on this game, worcej!
the jester DOES add just a bit of fun twisting. We'll see how ghug continues to play it.
13
Darg
07-07-2021
09:34 PM ET (US)
My new vecna-method remains spot on.
I think i have called him correctly for the last 6 games.

One feels absurdly proud of oneself.

Other stuff... not so much.

I wonder if rdr will out his find yet. There seems to be a flow towards bozo that might gain traction. If so, he doesn't need to out.
12
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-07-2021
09:12 PM ET (US)
Pretty close.

Town is in a good spot, rdr does have a guilty on bozo and can claim now and make it much easier for town.
11
Darg
07-07-2021
05:38 PM ET (US)
I have not read anything yet... I was going to send this to the GT... But time got away from m... I got to be the cameraman today!

Anyway... Vecna is scum. Bozo is either scum or PR. HB is scum. Snowy is town. No idea who jester is
10
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-07-2021
04:20 PM ET (US)
N1 Actions:
Mafia Nightkill Dargorygel - Succeeds
Mafia Roleblock Snowie - Nothing Happens
rdr scans bozo - Learns he is Mafia
JBH heals Vecna - Learns his services were not needed
9
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-07-2021
09:18 AM ET (US)
JBH is saving Vecna currently
8
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-07-2021
09:17 AM ET (US)
Lol...

Man, bozo has indeed called it. From the Mafia QT: "Or RB and NK
rdrivera, he seems to always scan or shoot me given the opportunity."


Rdr's exact orders submitted is a scan of bozo.
Edited 07-07-2021 09:18 AM
7
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-06-2021
10:17 PM ET (US)
From snowy:
I'd like to use my factional VT power to be smug

I'm being unfairly denied this opportunity during the night
6
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-06-2021
09:16 PM ET (US)
From HB:
First off, Worcej, thank you for GMing. Interesting setup and I swear I will read all the facts!

Secondly, Bob...really sorry, although for once in a while I don't have a hand in a D1 death. There was something that seemed off, or maybe I was just winging it off of the others.

On the plus side, there was a lot of movement to you. I think that gets us somewhere. I think you had 6 out of 12 possible votes. No way there is no mafia on that wagon.

I really like the no-talk night phase. It gives time to think and try to work stuff out. Not saying I will have anything worked out, BUT it will be nice to do it without any additional "noise."

I did screw up though. Thought I could have skipped Thursday since that's our big travel/pack day as it would have been a night phase. Then I remembered that D2 begins Wednesday 5pm and ends 5pm Thursday. Have to find a way to navigate that.
Edited 07-06-2021 09:16 PM
5
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-06-2021
09:15 PM ET (US)
This D1 seemed unnecessarily frantic.
4
BobMcBob
07-06-2021
09:06 PM ET (US)
Well that was... Quick
Interesting fact: that was the first time I've been daykilled as town, and I don't even think it was my fault...
3
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-05-2021
04:20 PM ET (US)
My thoughts after randomizing the roles:
1. I think it's great ghug randomed the Jester - ironically I think he'll fail to get daykilled in time.
2. This scum team is immensely strong on paper, but may draw some ire on the last phase possible.
3. Rdr is probably going to die N1 lol...
4. Johnny may go the distance, but should definitely not try to hint at his role...
2
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-05-2021
04:09 PM ET (US)
Mafia QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/GiYyrbfdNwv
1
worcejPerson was signed in when posted
07-05-2021
11:19 AM ET (US)
Roles:

1. Brian - VT
2. ghug - Jester
3. dargorygel - VT
4. bozo - Mafia
5. foodcoats - VT
6. damo666 - Mafia
7. Vecna - Mafia
8. Johnny Big Horse - Doctor
9. Rdrivera2005 - Cop
10. Chaqa - VT
11. Snowy - VT
12. BobMcBob - VT

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