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H&J 2952-2983 & 2984-3011

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261
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
10-22-2018
01:56 PM ET (US)
Joan: Thanks for catching 2970. Those were Judy's pictures in pattern glass that I put into the info page, but forgot to resize one and put it into the H&J file. That's where I upload the pictures for the H&J Project page on the website from. Just so many steps I lose track sometimes.

Your cut to clear Libbey salt is gorgeous. All of those with engraved designs are frustrating. In the H&J pictures the stems look like different widths and some have a little extra "glob" of glass right at the base. So hard to try and figure out which are which without the exact same engraved design. That's why I haven't finished those. Someone out there has the correct designs, just haven't decided to help us out here. I think one is the same but maker is unknown anyway, so no new information.

Since joining the EAPGS glass group, I learned about H&J 2952. I had no idea before that Portland sold many of their molds to Hobbs, Brucknier & Co.
260
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
10-22-2018
12:25 PM ET (US)
Debi, I also noticed that #2970 doesn't have a picture of the salt on the main page. But if you click on the bar/line above 2970 the information and pictures of the salt comes up. Is that because you are still working on that one? Or is it something else?

Thank you again for continuing to plug away on this project with very little help. All of your hard work is appreciated although I often forget to tell you!
259
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
10-22-2018
12:04 PM ET (US)

H&J 2975 Libbey mark.
258
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
10-22-2018
12:02 PM ET (US)

Debi, I just took a look at your H&J project pedestal page and it looks GREAT...beautiful job!! I was happy to see you had not yet filled in the information on the Libbey salt #2975, my posts #69-72, as I forgot to post my blue version. Also, although positioned in a different spot on the base, the Libbey mark is a bit clearer on the blue version.
257
Lynda LaLondePerson was signed in when posted
09-25-2018
01:44 PM ET (US)
   Ok, you have me worried. Is your back hurting you? Come back I miss you terribly.
256
Lynda LaLondePerson was signed in when posted
09-19-2018
11:17 AM ET (US)
   I read this yesterday and just sat here not knowing what to say. I feel I have let you down in some way. I brag you and this project up on facebook. I am very proud of the work you've done and the little I have contributed. Right now I am just hoping you'Re frustrated and we'll try again. I am very sorry you feel this way. Life happens. We all get side swipped by the events that get thrown at us. This isn't an overnight project. Al Diamond is redoing Neal's Lacy book. It has taken him years. He's not done. I am hoping you are just in a funk and with time will pick up the sword and have another go at it.
255
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
09-17-2018
06:25 PM ET (US)
Well girls, I think we are about done. Two or three of us cannot do this with no other help. Too many missing. I give up. I'm done trying.
254
Lynda LaLondePerson was signed in when posted
09-05-2018
08:54 PM ET (US)
Okay dokay
253
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
09-05-2018
01:25 AM ET (US)
Lynda: I'm not 100% sure, but it looks like someone may be sprucing up clear glass salts to sell better. That could be hand painted enamel after the fact. I don't think it was decorated that way originally, but done later. I know the salt was done with ruby stain and also engraved by United States Glass Co.

It does look like you have quite a few round ones to add.
252
Lynda LaLondePerson was signed in when posted
09-04-2018
09:49 AM ET (US)

  I still have a few round flat tops to take pictures of and get to you.
251
Lynda LaLondePerson was signed in when posted
09-04-2018
09:44 AM ET (US)

   Sometimes this program fights me.
250
Lynda LaLondePerson was signed in when posted
09-04-2018
09:42 AM ET (US)
   This is an enameled H.& J. # 2624, NEVADA state. The green rim is applied not stained. Everything else is the same as the clear. Thought you could add it to the page.
   I would have done more on this long weekend but got sick. I will keep trying.
249
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
09-01-2018
05:47 AM ET (US)
Joan: A couple side by side pictures would be great. Since the full zippered salt isn't in H&J we need to show the differences. Of course in the Journal each salt will have it's own page. I agree that the salt with the zippers only on the bowl was probably not made by Westmoreland or else it would have been shown with the full zippered one somewhere in Westmoreland catalogs or books, but it isn't.
248
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-31-2018
10:26 PM ET (US)
Debi, Just took a second look at the stems leading to the bases and they are both the same design and shape. If anything the half zipper may have just a tad more glass fill to the base making it look a tiny bit thicker (or having a less graceful arch), and that may be what you are picking up in my pictures. Nothing that would make me believe that it was a redesign or another mold all together. If you want I can take some more picture of the two bases together when it gets light tomorrow to try and capture a better view. Still, no evidence that Westmoreland made two different versions of this salt so anything is possible.
247
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-31-2018
04:32 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the pictures Joan. I was trying to look at the partial zipper and full zipper side by side and the bases don't look alike to me. The base on the full zipper seems to have a graceful flare from the stem and the part zipper looks rather bulbous. If that's true I don't think Westmoreland made both of them.
246
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-30-2018
09:18 PM ET (US)

H&J 3006 - Base view.
245
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-30-2018
09:17 PM ET (US)

H&J 3006 - Top view.
244
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-30-2018
09:17 PM ET (US)

H&J 3006 - Front view.
243
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-30-2018
09:16 PM ET (US)

H&J 3006

PATTERN NAME: Unknown

MANUFACTURER: Unknown

CIRCA: 1920

DIMENSIONS: 1-1/4” High, 1-3/8” Diameter

DESCRIPTION: Low round pedestal cut salt or almond.

KNOWN COLORS: Clear
242
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-30-2018
09:05 PM ET (US)

H&J 3000 - Base view.
241
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-30-2018
09:05 PM ET (US)

H&J 3000 - Top view.
240
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-30-2018
09:04 PM ET (US)

H&J 3000 - Front view.
239
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-30-2018
09:03 PM ET (US)

H&J 3000 - Another view.
238
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-30-2018
09:02 PM ET (US)

H&J 3000

PATTERN NAME: Unknown

MANUFACTURER: Unknown

CIRCA:
1910

DIMENSIONS: 1-7/8” High, 1- 5/8” Diameter

DESCRIPTION: Pressed & cut pedestal with diamond, fan & zipper design. Six panel round cut and polished base.

KNOWN COLORS: Clear
237
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-30-2018
08:57 PM ET (US)

H&J 2962 - Base view - half zipper.
236
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-30-2018
08:55 PM ET (US)

H&J 2962 - Top view - half zipper.
235
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-30-2018
08:54 PM ET (US)

H&J 2962 - Front view - half zipper.
Edited 08-30-2018 08:56 PM
234
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-30-2018
08:54 PM ET (US)

H&J 2962
Smith: 17-3-3
Salty Comments: #25
References>Old Catalogs>US Catalogs>Westmoreland

PATTERN NAME(S): Westmoreland No. 205 (Full Zipper), Unknown (Half Zipper)

MANUFACTURER(S): Westmoreland Glass Company (Full Zipper), Unknown (Half Zipper)

CIRCA: 1917-1924

DIMENSIONS: 1-13/16” High, 1- 13/16” Diameter

DESCRIPTION: Colonial pedestal design with six panel bowl, six panel base and scalloped top. Six groups of notches (zippers) run up from the base to the tip of the top arches on the full zipper version. Zippers do not appear on the base or stem of the half zipper version.

KNOWN COLORS: Clear
233
Lynda LaLondePerson was signed in when posted
08-27-2018
01:36 AM ET (US)
  2982 is different from 2981. Interesting. I've never seen 2983.
232
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-26-2018
07:44 PM ET (US)
Lynda: I know what you mean. It's not like we can compare our salts to good pictures in the catalogs to know for sure. The drawings are generic and look like they could be any of these pedestals. I was blown away by the fact that Joan has one with zippers only on the bowl. I was sure the zipper salt was 2962 but Joan was sure there's no zippers on the base. I just thought you couldn't tell from the H&J picture. Then she finds one with no zippers on the base.

I think we have all the salts one the first page covered except 2982 and 2983.
231
Lynda LaLondePerson was signed in when posted
08-26-2018
01:37 AM ET (US)
 Lolololol, you know you 2, I have read all this. I have looked at alllllll the pictures, I don't see how you can see all these differances. My eyeballs are crossed. Debi is right, if we could all get together and talk, see and hold these salts, it would be sooooo much easier. A little wine wouldn't hurt either.
229
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-24-2018
09:07 PM ET (US)
Debi, Sounds like a plan. I'll take pictures for the H&J pages this weekend.
228
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-24-2018
01:35 AM ET (US)
Joan: I have already commented in an email to you but in case anyone besides you and I read this I want to acknowledge all the different pedestals you have. I definitely think the half zipper salt you have is the one pictured in H&J. If it's the same maker as the full zipper salt I have no idea. In the last picture of the five salts the one on the bottom looks like the one I said has that horizontal line below the outside arches you can feel with a fingernail. The arch itself is rounded not flat. That's the one I thought was H&J 2961 judging from the stem width, squat and roundness of scallops.

For now, let's get the two pictured in H&J done and then later we can do the deep dive with separate pictures and measurements for the Journal.
227
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-23-2018
07:51 PM ET (US)

Okay, I'm back. Here's my take on the five salts pictured above. Starting with the top row, left to the right.

#1: Has the most highly defined arches that are somewhat flat when you feel them and they are cut on the bottom of the arch but not fire polished. Interior bowl is the biggest of all the salts.

#2: I believe this is the same salt as #1, with the flatter arches but they are completely fire polished. Bowl depth and size, and the stem length are all the same as #1.

#3: Arches are slightly less defined (a little more rounded on the bottom) than #1 & 2, the bowl is more shallow and the stem is slightly narrower than #1 & 2.

#4: Arches are less defined than #1, 2 & 3 and more rounded when you feel them. Stem is also taller. Bowl depth is about the same as #1 & 2, but it is not as big.

#5 (Bottom row) Arches are lower (don't form as much of a peak), are rounded to the touch, the bowl is very shallow, the stem is the most narrow, the base is the smallest of all the salts and it is also the shortest of all the salts.

Using your catalog pictures and the ones I have from my Duncan and Cambridge reference books I believe this is what I have.
 
#1, 2 & 3 - Duncan & Miller No. 65 - Difference in bowl depth between #1&2 and #3 (being the more shallow) may be what they have defined as "Medium Footed Salt No. 65" versus "Footed Individual Salt No.'s 65 & 61". #'s 1 & 2 would definitely hold more salt than #3.

#4 - Cambridge No. 2800/21 - Less defined arches and taller stem. I believe this may be H&J 2961.

#5 - Cambridge No. 2630 - Squatty shallow bowl body & shortest of all the salts.

One last point. #'s 1, 2 & 3 all have a deeper round indentation (almost a tiny round circle) in the underside of the base. Whereas, #'s 4 & 5 have a flatter less indented underside base with no defined circle.

Ball is in your court...what do you think??
226
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-23-2018
05:00 PM ET (US)

Back to discuss H&J 2961 later...here's some of the salts from that other box that I still need to go through. Puppies need to go out and be fed!!
Edited 08-23-2018 05:03 PM
225
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-23-2018
04:54 PM ET (US)

Another close-up.
224
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-23-2018
04:54 PM ET (US)

Close-up of the bases and stems of the two versions.
223
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-23-2018
04:53 PM ET (US)

Debi, Still really bothered me that you couldn't see any of the zipper design on the base or the stem of the salt and they show up very clearly on my picture. So I went back and checked through another box that I have of these pedestal style salts and guess what I found? A zipper salt with a plain base and stem. That's right...no zippers on the base...no zippers on the stem. Here's the comparison picture. My original zipper on the left and the one with the plain base and stem on the right. Okay, I feel better now and will concede that 2962 is the plain base and stem version of the zipper salt. We know the full zipper version is Westmoreland No. 205, do you think they also made this plainer version? Or do you think it's a case of mold wear?
222
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-23-2018
02:26 AM ET (US)

Joan: They aren't shown very well, but I do think 2962 does have zippers on it. In the making of this book, I would have to believe that Heacock wrote the descriptions from the pictures that were taken, while he had all his books and information at hand. He most likely was not there during the photographing of all of them. The sizes (when listed) probably came from the owners of the salts. He probably didn't see the zippers because they are hard to see.

I have what I think is 2961 and I believe that is Duncan. It is a tad taller than the zippered salt, and the arches on the outside are rounded not flat like the zippered salt. It also has a definite horizontal line below the arches when you run a fingernail along it. The stem is narrow like the zippered salt but the arches are definitely different.

I have two other pedestals with scalloped tops that are not shown at all. They both have wider stems. I think trying to determine absolutely correct makers on all of them would be very difficult. I think I took pictures of all my pedestals in a row when we were doing one of the color pages. I'm going to see if I saved it somewhere.

I wish we could do this in person instead of relying on pictures and trying to describe them in words. It would make it sooooo much easier.
221
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-23-2018
12:19 AM ET (US)
Thanks Lynda, I like that one too!

Debi, Actually I agree with H&J on 2962 and believe it is Cambridge No. 2630 like in my post #33. I just don't see any defined zippers in the picture(s), yours or H&Js, and that would be a big thing to leave out of the description. And the zipper salt is taller than 2962 and has zippers on the base also. And 2962's base looks the same as 2961 that doesn't have any zippers. Although Smith's picture is not much better, you can see the zippers on the base. Also if you look at the catalog pictures for Cambridge (Salts 1910-1920) the Cambridge No. 2630 has more of a squatty bowl like the H&J picture & my salt, whereas the zipper's bowl is taller more like the Cambridge 2800/21. I think H&J has those two Cambridge salts side-by-side to show the difference in their design. Long story short, I think H&J got 2962 right (for a change) and it is not the zipper salt and it may just be the lighting or angle that it was taken at that might give the illusion of zippers on the bowl of the salt. Take a look at my picture of 2962 in post #35. The way the light catches the bowl kind of makes it look like a zipper design in the back middle section of the bowl...doesn't it? Strange...
220
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-22-2018
10:54 PM ET (US)
Joan: I have one of the zipper salts you reposted the pictures of, and I have it listed as H&J 2962. I noticed you don't have any H&J number listed in your description. Do you think yours is different or was it just missed? The zippers are not real obvious in the book but they are there.

Thanks for the additional pictures. I hope I get them all edited and put on the pages tonight.
219
Lynda LaLondePerson was signed in when posted
08-22-2018
01:05 AM ET (US)
   Joan, message 205 is so pretty.
218
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
09:52 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Flat-Top - Base view Libbey.
217
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
09:50 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Flat-Top - Top view with Libbey Mark.
216
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
09:49 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Flat-Top - Top view 1.
215
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
09:49 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Flat-Top - Front view 2.
214
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
09:48 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Flat-Top - Front view 1.
213
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
09:46 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Flat-Top

PATTERN NAME: Unknown

MANUFACTURE: Libbey Glass Company

CIRCA: 1896-1906

DIMENSIONS: 1-1/2” High, 1-3/4” Diameter

DESCRIPTION: Heavy weight crystal salt intricately cut with a diamond, star & fan design. Libbey mark in bottom of bowl used from 1896 to 1906.

KNOWN COLORS: Clear Crystal
Edited 08-21-2018 09:52 PM
212
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:53 PM ET (US)

H&J 2981 - Base view.
211
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:52 PM ET (US)

H&J 2981 - Top view.
210
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:51 PM ET (US)

H&J 2981 - Front view.
209
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:50 PM ET (US)

H&J 2981
References > Old Catalogs > France > Portieux & Vallerysthal
Salty Comments: #70

PATTERN NAME(S): Portieux No. 4075 & Vallerysthal No. 4110

MANUFACTURER(S): Portieux (France), Vallerysthal (France) & Taiwan Imports

CIRCA: 1894 (Portieux) & 1894 (Vallerysthal)

DIMENSIONS: 1-5/8” High, 2-1/4” Rim Diameter

DESCRIPTION: Round swirl pattern pedestal with scalloped rim. Other companies reproduced this salt in many colors.

KNOWN COLORS: Clear, Amber, Blue, Milk, Green Milk
208
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:46 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Flat-Top - Base view.
207
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:45 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Flat-Top - Top view.
206
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:44 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Flat-Top - Front view.
205
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:43 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Flat-Top
Smith: 467-1-3

PATTERN NAME: Unknown

MANUFACTURER: Unknown

CIRCA: 1910

DIMENSIONS: 1-5/8” High, 1- 3/4” Diameter

DESCRIPTION: Pedestal salt with sloping sides bowl and a round base. Two eight-point stars pressed into the sides.

KNOWN COLORS: Clear
204
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:40 PM ET (US)

H&J 2989 - Base view.
203
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:39 PM ET (US)

H&J 2989 - Top view.
202
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:38 PM ET (US)

H&J 2989 - Front view.
201
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:37 PM ET (US)

H&J 2989
Smith: 265-3-1

PATTERN NAME: Unknown (H&J says possible Fostoria, however unable to find documentation that Fostoria ever made this shape salt)

MANUFACTURER: Unknown

CIRCA: Unknown

DIMENSIONS: 1” High, 2” Diameter

DESCRIPTION: Mold blown glass pedestal with round flared bowl, round base and decorated with an etched ribbon and medallion design.

KNOWN COLORS: Clear
200
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:32 PM ET (US)

H&J 2974 & 2975 (Different Etching) - Base view.
199
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:32 PM ET (US)

H&J 2974 & 2975 (Different Etching) Top view.
198
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:31 PM ET (US)

H&J 2974 & 2975 (Different Etching) - Front view.
197
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:29 PM ET (US)

Here's another one that is the same salt but has different etching.

H&J 2974 & 2975 (Different Etching)

PATTERN NAME: Unknown (H&J states possible Cambridge No. 355, however unable to find documentation that shows Cambridge had a No. 355 pattern).

MANUFACTURER: Unknown

CIRCA: 1920

DIMENSIONS: 1-5/8” High, 1-1/2” Diameter

DESCRIPTION: Mold blown pedestal with round base. This one has three starbursts etched in the bowl.

KNOWN COLORS: Clear
196
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:16 PM ET (US)

H&J 2974 - Base view.
195
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:15 PM ET (US)

H&J 2974 - Top view.
194
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:14 PM ET (US)

H&J 2974 - Front view.
193
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:13 PM ET (US)

Debi, This is another case where the salts in H&J 2974, 2976 & 2977 are all the same except for two with different etchings and one being plain. The one I'm posting is the same salt with different etchings but can be used as an "example" of the salt if no one has the exact salts.

H&J 2974, 2976 & 2977
References>Ed Bowman>Cambridge

PATTERN NAME: Unknown (H&J says possibly Cambridge No. 355, however have not been able to find documentation that Cambridge had a No. 355 pattern)

MANUFACTURER: Unknown

CIRCA: 1920’s

DIMENSIONS: 1-5/8” High, 1-1/2” Diameter

DESCRIPTION: Mold blown pedestal with round base. Some with etched flowers and leaves.

KNOWN COLORS: Clear
192
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:05 PM ET (US)

H&J 3003 - Base view.
191
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:04 PM ET (US)

H&J 3003 - Top view.
190
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:03 PM ET (US)

H&J 3003 - Front view.
189
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
08:02 PM ET (US)

Debi, This salt has the actual etching pictured in H&J 3003, but the salt itself is the same shape for H&J 3004 & 3305 as well. So if no one comes up with the actual etched versions of those two salts you may want to use this information for all three.

H&J 3003
References > Fostoria Nut Cups & Individual Almonds

PATTERN NAME: Fostoria No. 863 – Blown Ware Individual Almond

MANUFACTURER: Fostoria Glass Company

CIRCA: 1906-1929

DIMENSIONS: 1-3/4” High, 2-1/2” Diameter

DESCRIPTION: Mold blown glass pedestal with round base and cut glass decorations of flowers and leaves.

KNOWN COLORS: Clear
188
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
07:18 PM ET (US)
Debi, Please, please, please don't do away with the cross-references. It's true that we do run across errors every so often, but they usually lead to us doing more research and correcting them in the work we are doing. I've been keeping a list of the corrections "we" have made to errors we have found in salt reference publications and research sites. Maybe we can do something with that in the future. I know we get frustrated when we fine another error, but I still find the cross-reference information more helpful than hindering. And I don't mind doing them...really! In the future we should just leave off the error references so we don't spread the incorrect information. I just don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water...if you know what I mean.
187
Lynda LaLondePerson was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
05:42 PM ET (US)
   Let's see, Jan is doing as one would expect. She has good days and bad. She's kinda remarkable to me as she has projects her and Stan had planned. She is doing those projects, getting his things organized and off to people who need them.
   I see Jytte on facebook and she is well. Now Judy and P.J. I don't know. With Judy's history....we need to worry. That girl has bad luck.
   You'Re right about all the hurts, deaths and illness'. Insane. We have reached that age where our friends and their families are tendor.
   I will get to the Masters, sooner than later.
Edited 08-21-2018 05:46 PM
186
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
03:04 PM ET (US)
Lynda: I believe all I need for the Jewel and #137 salts are the ind. and master side by side for each pattern. Just one picture from the side with no inside showing. Then if you feel like taking all the pictures of each master I will save them in the right folder for when we get to the round masters.

Too much bad stuff going on here lately so not hearing from someone for some time makes me nervous. I wish Jan, Judy and PJ would check in more often too. And Jytte. Where is Jytte? I don't think she's been here at all this month.
185
Lynda LaLondePerson was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
01:53 PM ET (US)

  Thank you Joan. People caring enough to miss you is a big compliment. You and Debi warmed my heart and I thank you.
  You and Jan seem to have collected in the same mannor. Very organised. She said she took her direction from Ed Berg. Pretty wise collecting. I'm afraid I'm all over the place. I did realize when we started this project that getting the colors is a great idea but I just can't find them. Not so available anymore. I missed the colored Spring in Snow from the Berg collection that sold at beginning of the ebay auctions. OPC pg 269 has an amber one but I think the Berg one was a pink or ? Purple. Kicked myself for missing it.
  I have some masters of these salts we'Re doing now and I still owe Debi pics of #2554 King's glass Jewel and Richard/Hartely's Webster. Fudge.....

  Debi, what view did you need of the Jewel versus Webster master did you need. This is why I should never put things off. Gerrrr.
184
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
11:34 AM ET (US)
Joan: I know you really thought that the other references would be helpful on the Journal pages, but in many cases it only points to bad information we are trying to get away from. You have been really helpful in looking them up for me but if it's going to drive you to drink maybe we should rethink it! LOL
183
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-21-2018
04:18 AM ET (US)
Joan: I ran into some of that but not all of it. I just finished adding the O'Hara salt to the Journal. I wouldn't bother going through all the Smith books. The top rim difference may not even be visible in such small pictures. As far as the description for 36-4-1, I'd say it's probably another book error since neither one has a rayed bottom. I'm not that worried about Smith descriptions being wrong but many H&J ones surely are, and that's what keeps getting repeated. I have an idea how to do away with the bad H&J descriptions, but that's another project for another time.
182
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-20-2018
11:55 PM ET (US)
Debi, I don’t drink, but I’m thinking of starting!!

Here’s what I found for the journal references for H&J 420, 517 & 2877 – Riverside #79:
Berg: #75
Smith: When I looked up H&J 2877 in the H&J to Smith Reference section there is nothing listed. So I looked up H&J 420 and it shows 448-3-1 which shows the Riverside #79 salt but it is incorrectly identified as the Portland pattern by US Glass which is a similar, but different pattern. So then I looked up H&J 517 which shows 36-4-1. Again, it looks like the Riverside #79, but says it has a rayed bottom and beveled top and bottom edges. The Riverside and O’Hara both have top and bottom beveled edges, but neither have a rayed bottom. And the picture doesn’t appear to have the ridge on the top rim like the O’Hara salt so I would have guessed it was the Riverside if I hadn’t read the description…what the heck?? Another look-a-like salt or another book error?? HELP!!

Nothing in the H&J to Smith Reference section for H&J 2878 – O’Hara No. 18 so I will need to go through all ten books. I’m afraid what I will find!!
181
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-20-2018
10:25 PM ET (US)
Joan: I took pictures yesterday of my 2877 and 2878. I have all three colors of 2877 but not the 2878 vaseline one. Don't remember who had that one. Probably Jan or Judy. So you can send me the references for 2877 and 2878 for the Journal, but I have the future H&J pages done for them. I will go rewrite RO-FT-7-11 and make a page for the other one. Lots of jiggling and renaming to do to get them side by side in the Journal. Ugh!
180
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-20-2018
10:02 PM ET (US)
Hi Lynda, Happy that you finally checked in...we were worried about you.

In answer to your question, when I first started collecting I seemed to focus in on specific collections and companies. I liked Fostoria and Cambridge, both their salts and nut cups, and also intaglios, the bird with berry salts and art glass. Back then there seemed to be a lot nicer variety of salts on eBay and I spent more time looking around in local antique shops. Over the years I acquired most of the more common salts when I purchased a few collections and have since downsized/sold off many of them with maybe another 200-300 to go. Lately I've been more focused on filling in some of the blanks in my EAPG salt collection.
179
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-20-2018
10:01 PM ET (US)
Lynda: Just glad you're OK and nothing happened to you. It was odd that you seemed to disappear for such a long time when you usually jump into posting on these H&J Project pages. I think we have the first of these two pages covered pretty well except the last three salts pictured on that page. I can get H&J 2984 from the color pages although I don't think there's a picture of a clear one so we could use that if you have one. Joan says she has more etched pedestals she will post. I have 2999, 3000, 3001 and 3010, but there are other cut glass I don't have. Since you've been so busy with the kids and still have unpacking to do, Joan and I can fill in what we have and you can let us know if you have any we are missing.
178
Lynda LaLondePerson was signed in when posted
08-20-2018
06:06 PM ET (US)
   Debi, I wrote a long note last Friday... I think, but I must not have hit submit. Thank you so much for missing me. You have no idea how nice that makes me feel.
   Let's see what I remember writing. School has started and have been doing home work. Put me on that show "Are you as smart as a 5th grader?" Cause now I'm in 6th grade. I also will have to read and study all that's been done by Joan to figure if I have any you still need. Some pedestals are still packed.
   Joan, I had a question for you. After I saw all your colors in the Fostoria nut cups and I've noted you have many salts in all their colors; I was thinking for a person so young.....how did you manage to collect so completely?
177
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-20-2018
04:38 PM ET (US)
Debi, I already deleted posts #97-100 and posted the right pictures to go with #96. I didn't realize I could delete posts with pictures. Live and learn...
176
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-20-2018
04:30 PM ET (US)
Debi, Sorry I messed up on #96...hope I didn't create extra work for you.

I took a look at both 420 & 517 and they look perfect!! Don't forget to change the journal page (RO-FT-7-11) to match H&J 420.

If you want I can take pictures of and put together the index information on the O'Hara (H&J 2878) so you can add it to the round journal pages now, and you can also keep a copy in your page 146 folder so you will have them when we get to it. This way you will have both the Riverside & O'Hara in the journal in case someone wants to look up which one they have and it will already be done when we get to page 146. Let me know...
175
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-20-2018
03:58 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Uneven-Top Base view. Goes with post #96.
174
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-20-2018
03:56 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Uneven-Top - Top view. Goes with post #96.
173
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-20-2018
03:54 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Uneven-Top - Front-on view. Goes with post #96.
Edited 08-20-2018 03:59 PM
172
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-20-2018
03:51 PM ET (US)

Debi, Yup...gave you the wrong pictures on posts #97-100. Please delete #97-100 and I will post the correct pictures that go with the Zipper pedestal in post #96.

Here's the first one...

Pedestal – Uneven-Top Another front view. Goes with post #96.
171
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-20-2018
06:16 AM ET (US)
Joan I was collecting more pictures and your image in message 96 is different from 97. There's only one picture with the "zipper" on the salt.

Per our emails last night, I have changed H&J 420 and 517. There's no color pictures of H&J 2878 so I guess we'll have to wait until we get there to add the O'Hara salt that is so much like the Riverside one.
170
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-19-2018
11:39 PM ET (US)

Here's a "new" turquoise blue color of the reproduced Lucere salt with the Pioneer "PG" mark on the base.

H&J 2963
Smith: 80-2-3
References > Fostoria
Salty Comments: #60
Ed Bowman>Wilkerson

PATTERN NAME(S): Lucere #1515 Individual

MANUFACTURER(S): Fostoria (Reproduced by Pioneer & Wilkerson.
CIRCA: Introduced 1907, Discontinued 1915
DIMENSIONS: 2” High, 1-3/4” Diameter

DESCRIPTION: Round pedestal with six arced panels and six point base. Pioneer Glass Company reproductions made 1987-89 in cobalt, dark green, light green, black & turquoise blue and have the PG mark. Wilkerson reproduced after 2008 in cobalt & Vaseline and carries their FWF mark.

KNOWN COLORS: Clear (Fostoria), Cobalt, Dark Green, Light Green, Turquoise & Black (Pioneer), Cobalt & Vaseline (Wilkerson).
169
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-19-2018
11:27 PM ET (US)

H&J 3007 - Base view.
168
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-19-2018
11:26 PM ET (US)

H&J 3007 - Top view.
167
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-19-2018
11:26 PM ET (US)

H&J 3007 - Front view.
166
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-19-2018
11:25 PM ET (US)

H&J 3007

PATTERN NAME: Unknown

MANUFACTURER: Unknown

CIRCA: 1890

DIMENSIONS: 1-1/2” High, 2” Rim Diameter

DESCRIPTION: Heavy crystal intricately cut with a fan, star and diamond design. Stem is cut in an eight panel design ending in a round cut and polished base.

KNOWN COLORS: Clear
165
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-19-2018
11:19 PM ET (US)

H&J 2993 - Base view.
164
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-19-2018
11:18 PM ET (US)

H&J 2993 - Top view.
163
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-19-2018
11:18 PM ET (US)

H&J 2993 - Front view.
162
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-19-2018
11:17 PM ET (US)

H&J 2993
Smith: 119-1-3

PATTERN NAME: Unknown

MANUFACTURER: West Virginia Glass, Weston, WV

CIRCA: 1920’s

DIMENSIONS: 1-3/4” High, 2” Diameter

DESCRIPTION: Round crimped rim mold blown salt with plain round base. Some can be found with paper sticker W Virginia Glass, Weston WV.

KNOWN COLORS: Clear
161
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-19-2018
11:11 PM ET (US)

H&J 2968 - Base view.
160
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-19-2018
11:11 PM ET (US)

H&J 2968 - Top view.
159
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-19-2018
11:10 PM ET (US)

H&J 2968 - Front view.
158
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-19-2018
11:09 PM ET (US)

Debi, The description of H&J 2968 shows that it has a light inverted thumbprint, but is not visible in the picture. I don't know if the description is accurate or if this is another error. I have a completely plain version that looks like the same salt. I'll post the information and pictures and you can decide if you would like to use it for 2968 or just for the journal.

H&J #2968 (Pedestal - Flat Top)
Smith 467-4-1

PATTERN NAME: Unknown

MANUFACTURER: Unknown

CIRCA: 1915

DIMENSIONS: 1-5/8” High, 2” Diameter

DESCRIPTION: Heavy pressed glass pedestal design with plain round bowl and plain round base.

KNOWN COLORS: Clear
Edited 08-19-2018 11:12 PM
157
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-19-2018
12:52 PM ET (US)
I only have the thicker wall clear Duncan salt - H&J 2958 - but not a clear Cambridge H&J 2957. If anyone has one please post pictures. Judy, Jan, Lynda - we need you back!
156
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-17-2018
09:48 PM ET (US)
Right you are Joan. That's what I get for skipping around when I collect the pictures. I should start from the bottom and go straight through. I was getting the ones I had backup catalog info on and somehow missed that one.
155
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-17-2018
05:21 PM ET (US)
Debi, Looks like Duncan & Miller No. 73 Thumbnail. I believe my post #81 may be the same salt with silver deposit work.
Edited 08-17-2018 05:22 PM
154
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-17-2018
02:30 PM ET (US)

Another view. Anyone have one or ever see one?
153
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-17-2018
02:27 PM ET (US)

The base is round not hexagon shape and it has raised scallops.
152
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-17-2018
02:25 PM ET (US)

I don't know who made this one. It's nice clear glass.
151
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-17-2018
02:00 PM ET (US)
This is really odd. Yesterday I was working on the H&J pages. I had already measured all my salts and put the measurements on the pages and was adding pictures. As I got to 2959 I was wondering how the height measurement Joan provided was so different from mine. Then I really compared the pictures and the salt I have is different. So different I wonder how I ever thought this was H&J 2959 to begin with. I will take a picture and add it. It's not on either of these pages.

I wish they didn't mix in so many cut glass salts but we will need them to complete these pages. I will save them in their proper Journal folders too.
Edited 08-19-2018 12:55 PM
150
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-16-2018
07:25 PM ET (US)
Thanks Joan. I should have the information from the H&J pages but I think I do need the SUN RAY pedestal. I don't have that form, just the flat triangle shape. I bet Lynda has one of the GLACIER type with frosted glass on the ribs. Wonder where she is? Hope she's OK.
149
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-15-2018
11:34 PM ET (US)
Debi, I know you had some of these pictures of H&J 2992 from previous project pages, but I was unsure if you kept them or the reference information so I thought I would give them to you again. If you don't need them feel free to delete. I think this is the first time I gave you a picture of the clear one with the Fostoria (partial) label.
148
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-15-2018
11:29 PM ET (US)

H&J# 2992 - Examples of gold decoration on rim and base.
147
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-15-2018
11:28 PM ET (US)

H&J# 2992 - Pastel colors.
146
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-15-2018
11:27 PM ET (US)

H&J# 2992 - Jewel colors.
145
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-15-2018
11:26 PM ET (US)

H&J# 2992 - Base view.
144
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-15-2018
11:25 PM ET (US)

H&J# 2992 - Top view.
143
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-15-2018
11:24 PM ET (US)

H&J# 2992 - Front view.
142
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-15-2018
11:23 PM ET (US)

H&J#: 782, 783, 790 & 2992 (Clear with Fostoria Label)
Smith: 17-4-3
Salty Comments: 13 & 60
References > Fostoria

PATTERN NAME: Fostoria #2374 – Individual Almond

MANUFACTURE: Fostoria Glass Company

CIRCA: 1928 – 1943

DIMENSIONS: 1-1/4” H, 2-1/2” D

DESCRIPTION: Mold blown – Pedestal Design – Individual Almond

KNOWN COLORS: Burgundy, Empire Green, Regal Blue, Amber, Azure Blue, Clear, Green, Rose, Topaz – Also found decorated with gold on rim and base
141
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-15-2018
11:19 PM ET (US)
Debi, I think you need a picture of the Sunray for your Fostoria reference page also. I thought I had given it to you a while back, but I must of forgot!
Edited 08-16-2018 12:48 AM
140
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-15-2018
11:18 PM ET (US)

H&J# 2991 - Base view.
139
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-15-2018
11:17 PM ET (US)

H&J# 2991 - Top view.
138
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-15-2018
11:16 PM ET (US)

H&J# 2991 - Another front view.
137
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-15-2018
11:15 PM ET (US)

H&J# 2991 - Front view.
136
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-15-2018
11:14 PM ET (US)

H&J# 2991 - Another view.
135
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-15-2018
11:11 PM ET (US)

H&J#: 2991
References > Fostoria

PATTERN NAME: Fostoria #2510 Sunray – Individual Almond

MANUFACTURE: Fostoria Glass Company

CIRCA: 1935 – 1943

DIMENSIONS: 1-1/2” H, 2-3/8” D

DESCRIPTION: Mold blown – Pedestal Design – Individual Almond

KNOWN COLORS: Clear
134
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-14-2018
10:41 PM ET (US)
OK Lynda, you're starting to scare me. Are you OK? You haven't posted anything in 5 days and that's not like you! Please let us know you're OK.
133
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-12-2018
12:26 PM ET (US)
Debi, I meant to write...I know you are in "NO" rush for more right now...!! I need to get to bed earlier or learn to stop posting after midnight!!
Edited 08-12-2018 12:27 PM
132
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-12-2018
10:38 AM ET (US)
Joan, you are so wrong. I am not in a rush for more right now. Besides adding more round and working on the oval page I have not yet saved any of the pedestal pictures. I do have quite a few of these though if no one else does.
131
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-12-2018
03:29 AM ET (US)
I know you are in a rush for more right now, but just wanted to let you know that I still have more pedestals that appear on these two pages, but need to take pictures. Now I'm headed to bed...
130
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-12-2018
02:56 AM ET (US)
Well this is not cooperating so I'll post some other time.
129
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-12-2018
02:54 AM ET (US)

H&J 2953 Stupid thing says this is a duplicate post so I had to add something.
127
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-12-2018
02:48 AM ET (US)

H&J 2952

Just so you guys know I won't need pictures of these, I'll post some pictures I took today.
126
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-11-2018
09:58 PM ET (US)
Debi, I scrolled through the Canton No. 10 pieces. Still think that is a "lackluster" aka for this pattern. The pieces look much more elegant and Asian inspired to have an aka of Barred Forget-me-nots. And the flowers look more like cherry blossoms to me. Some of these "made-up" akas really lack imagination!

I checked my D&M and Central books, but couldn't find an etched pattern to match the star and leaf Colonial. Still looking for my Welker book. I know it is in one of the piles on my coffee table or in my study!! In the meantime if you find anything let me know!
125
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-10-2018
09:52 PM ET (US)
Joan: If you use that link for the Canton salts again and use the arrow at the top to view the other pieces in the pattern, then the pattern is pretty obvious. Salt is too small include all the elements of the pattern.

That's probably true for any etched patterns too. Depression glass collectors are pretty heavy into etched designs and I'm sure in the Central and Duncan & Miller books there are pictures of the etched patterns. But just a star and/or leaf spray (both popular) on a salt may not be enough to figure out the whole etched design. Therefore still hard to tell if that salt is Central or Duncan & Miller. I'll grab those books and look but I doubt it will lead to anything definite.

You have a Welker book now. Look up Barred Forget-Me-Not and Sprig in Snow. Dead end there. But I'm going to see if I have any of the reference books mentioned and see what's there. Just a real pain digging out so many books. Before long I have half my library stacked on the arm of the loveseat, then I have to put them all back. My back doesn't like that but Larry doesn't know where to put the books so I can find them next time. LOL
Edited 08-10-2018 09:57 PM
124
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-10-2018
09:06 PM ET (US)
Debi, Thanks for the information on the Canton No. 10 salt. I already updated my post and my reference material. They also give a strange aka of "Barred Forget-Me-Not"...wonder where that came from? Sprig in Snow seems more fitting!
123
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-10-2018
08:57 PM ET (US)
Bottom line appears to be: Westmoreland and Summit are the same salt and if it is clear glass it is Westmoreland and if it is colored glass it is Summit as they never made a clear version. Duncan & Miller and Central appear to be the same salt design, have no makers' marks and both were most likely made in just clear...some having etched designs. As such, it is unlikely that we will be able to distingue a D&M from a Central, unless we find a catalog picture of one with an etched design attributed to a specific company. And as we have found out with other salts, there may still be other companies that have also made this salt, or a very similar design, that are yet to be uncovered.
122
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-10-2018
08:50 PM ET (US)

Another view of the exteriors of the three versions. And no points on any of the base panels.
Edited 08-10-2018 09:12 PM
121
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-10-2018
08:49 PM ET (US)

Another side-by-side inside view of the Summit cobalt and one of the clear D&M or Central.
120
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-10-2018
08:47 PM ET (US)

Inside view of all three. Note clear versions have thicker rims/inside bowl walls, thus giving them a smaller inside bowl diameter.
119
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-10-2018
08:44 PM ET (US)

Side-by-side of the three 8 panel pedestals. Cobalt is Summit. Clear & clear etched are Duncan & Miller or Central Glass. Exterior bowl design are the same for all three.
118
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-10-2018
08:41 PM ET (US)
Debi, I just posted another 8 panel pedestal, this one etched, that I believe is either D&M or Central. I'm also going to post side-by-side pictures of all three of the ones I have. The Summit cobalt (my previous post #11), the D&M or Central clear (my previous post #15) and the D&M or Central clear etched (my previous post #114). I can't spot any differences in the exterior bowl designs. The only differences are the Westmoreland and Summit have a larger inside bowl diameter(or thinner walls) measuring 1-1/16" at the inside rim and the bottom of the base has a deeper indentation. While the D&M and Central versions have a smaller inside bowl diameter (or thicker walls) measuring only 1" at the inside rim and the bottom of the bases have less of an indentation and are somewhat flatter. Berg also pointed out these differences in Salty Comments #'s 22 & 25, although my inside bowl measurements (using my calipers at the inside rim) are slightly different. Not quite sure just where he measured his "inside diameter", but ultimately using either of the two measurements still points out the differences in the salts designs. Also, Berg's rendition of Central's 8 panel pedestal (T787) in Salty Comments #28 clearly shows the "thicker" walls and rim of the salt.
117
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-10-2018
08:41 PM ET (US)

Pedestal Flat-Top Base view.
116
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-10-2018
08:40 PM ET (US)

Pedestal Flat-Top - Top view.
115
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-10-2018
08:40 PM ET (US)

Pedestal Flat-Top Side view.
114
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-10-2018
08:38 PM ET (US)

Pedestal Flat-Top
Salty Comments: #’s 22 & 28
Ed Bowman Research>Central Glass
Duncan & Miller Glass Co. Catalog No. 020, Circa 1908

PATTERN NAME(S): Possible Duncan & Miller No. 66 or Central Glass T787

MANUFACTURER(S): Duncan & Miller or Central Glass

CIRCA: 1905-1910 (D&M), 1925 (Central)

DIMENSIONS: 1-11/16” High, 1-3/4” Diameter

DESCRIPTION: Flat top pedestal design with an eight panel bowl and an eight panel base. Etched with star and three leaf design. Has thicker inside walls than the Westmoreland or Summit versions. This is most noticeable when you compare the thickness of the top rims or measure the inside dimeter of the bowl. D&M and Central both have an inside bowl diameter at the rim of 1” while Westmoreland and Summit have an inside bowl diameter at the rim of 1-1/16”.

KNOWN COLORS: Clear with etched design.
113
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-10-2018
06:49 PM ET (US)
Lynda: I was saving the pictures of the round salts you posted. When I got to the one with the Fostoria label I did a little research. The label dates from 1924 to 1957. (Fostoria didn't close until 1986.) My guess is that it wasn't made as an open salt but maybe a votive insert for some other piece of glassware. The time period of 1924-57 is far past the time most open salts would be made for utilitarian use. These are so plain they must belong with something else.
112
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-10-2018
07:14 AM ET (US)
http://www.eapgs.org/patterns/full-images.php?idx=10785&pat=1146
Maker information for salt posted in #50.
111
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-10-2018
05:36 AM ET (US)
Oh, forgot to say I will probably use your pictures of the vaseline salts in different heights to show how some could have sagged while hot. So I'm not going to delete them. I haven't saved pictures yet.
110
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-10-2018
05:31 AM ET (US)
Joan: I made a mistake too. I completely botched the fact that hexagon is 6. I was thinking she got it right with the bowl but that's wrong too. I held my salt at exactly the same angle as the drawing and you can see 5 of the base panels but only three on the bowl. I'm as convinced as you are that she counted the panels she saw and multiplied by two. Another book mistake! I'm getting to the point I don't believe anything in books unless I can see it and prove it myself.

And then I noticed your Central Glass reference. I do see that one. I wonder if there some difference in the way the base panels have a slight point. You cobalt one does not seem to have any when you look at the profile, but they are quite subtle on my clear one too. Even if there is a difference we still wouldn't know which was which. The stem might be a different width too but again, no dimensions given in catalogs so we still wouldn't know. I suppose I'll just have to put three catalog pictures on the same salt because we don't know the differences.
Edited 08-10-2018 05:38 AM
109
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-10-2018
04:02 AM ET (US)
WOW...I should have gone to bed hours ago!!! She did use the picture to count the panels as I just reread my post and realized a hexagon is six sided and an octagon is eight sided. So her count is off all around. She counted 6 for the bowl and 10 for the base. So now I'm convinced that our 8 & 8 panel count is correct!! Glad that is over with...lol!!
108
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-10-2018
03:15 AM ET (US)
Debi, I knew I shouldn't have carried the "possible Heisey" notation over, but decided to at the last minute because the OSC also had it noted that way. I already deleted it from H&J 2960 and if you would please delete my entire posts #'s 101-104 I would greatly appreciate it, as you make a good point about the sagging.

As far as the Grizel book entry of the Westmoreland salt, you are right that her description does say 10 (decagon) for the base (foot) and 8 hexagon for the bowl (salt). But the picture of the salt seems to contradict her description. And if she used it to determine the shape then it would have been a 6 (octagon) bowl as the picture shows only three panels. So I still believe it's 8 and 8. It seems to be the same picture that is in the 1924 Westmoreland catalog...but as you have taught me, catalog pictures can be deceiving!!
107
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-10-2018
01:30 AM ET (US)

Joan: Here's the entry from the Grizel book on Westmoreland salts. Now maybe she was just counting the panels in the picture, but she definitely says 10 on the base and 8 on the bowl. I don't know how else to explain it if no one has one with a 10 panel base. Always something weird, isn't it? I'm just going to go with 8 in both places unless someone can prove it.
106
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-10-2018
01:21 AM ET (US)
Joan: I think the difference in height on your two vaseline salts could be due to a bit of sagging while the glass was still hot. None of these are Heisey. I remember talking to Ed Bowman and Ed Berg about them. Bowman had completed his work on the Heisey salts and that one isn't in there. He said it wasn't a Heisey salt. The only place that bad info comes from is the H&J book.
105
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-10-2018
12:40 AM ET (US)
Debi, Sorry I'm just now getting to your message, I was on a roll posting...lol!! I find it hard to believe that Westmoreland made a salt with an eight panel bowl and a ten panel base...just doesn't make sense. I think the author may have gotten side-tracked while he was counting the base panels or accidently noted it incorrectly. And if the base was originally ten panels, why would Summit alter only the base? Again, just doesn't ring true as something a company would take the time, not to mention the expense, to do to a mold that they planned to reproduce in every other way! Summit was not known for making changes to molds they acquired from other companies, other than some changes in maker's marks.

I think that the information on H&J 2957 being D&M #54 is another error that should have been picked up long ago. D&M #54 is noted to be a "Colonial" pattern but that is as close to as it gets to anything about H&J 2957. Never found any reference material indicating a pedestal shape associated with their #54. D&M's #66 is their pedestal version of this salt and I believe it is most likely H&J 2958.
104
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
11:43 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Uneven-Top (Similar to 2960)Base view.
103
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
11:42 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Uneven-Top (Similar to 2960)Top view.
102
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
11:41 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Uneven-Top (Similar to 2960)This picture shows that this salt (left) is taller than H&J 2960 (right).
101
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
11:38 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Uneven-Top (Similar to 2960)
Smith: 17-1-2 & 17-3-1
OSC: Plate 825

PATTERN NAME(S): Colonial Pattern

MANUFACTURER(S): Unknown – Possibly Heisey

CIRCA: 1900-1910

DIMENSIONS: 1-7/8” High, 1- 13/16” Diameter

DESCRIPTION: Colonial pedestal design with a six panel bowl, six panel octagon shaped base and a scalloped top. This is a taller version of H&J 2960.

KNOWN COLORS: Yellow (Vaseline)
96
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
11:32 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Uneven-Top
Smith: 17-3-3
Salty Comments: #25
References>Old Catalogs>US Catalogs>Westmoreland

PATTERN NAME(S): Westmoreland No. 205 – Individual Salt

MANUFACTURER(S): Westmoreland Glass Company

CIRCA: 1917-1924

DIMENSIONS: 1-13/16” High, 1- 13/16” Diameter

DESCRIPTION: Colonial pedestal design with six panel bowl, six panel base and scalloped top. Distinctive arches on base match those near rim. Six groups of notches (zippers) run up from the base to the tip of the top arches.

KNOWN COLORS: Clear
95
Debi RaitzPerson was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
11:29 PM ET (US)
Joan, you're going to keep me very busy! I have set up my Publisher pages today and thought I would start filling in the maker information and sizes first. The cobalt salt you call Westmoreland #217 reproduced by Summit doesn't match the description the book on Westmoreland salts by Grizell. That book says the Westmoreland salt has 10 panels in the base and 8 panels in the bowl. I don't know if that is a true fact or not. I do have a clear one I assume is original and it only has 8 panels in the base too. I see that Ed Bowman says the Summit repro was originally Westmoreland No. 217. Somewhere along the line, that salt either lost two panels in the base or it never had them! I know these pedestals are going to be a PITA! Heacock says H&J 2957 is Duncan & Miller #54. It does look exactly like it but with no pedestal base. D&M #54 has an individual, a master and also a tub in the #54 pattern. I don't see a pedestal anywhere in D&M #54. I am fairly certain that H&J 2957 is Westmoreland but if anyone has one with 10 panels in the base I would sure like to see it.
94
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
11:29 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Flat-Top Base view.
93
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
11:29 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Flat-Top - Top view.
92
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
11:28 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Flat-Top Side view.
91
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
11:27 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Flat-Top Another front view.
90
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
11:26 PM ET (US)

Pedestal – Flat-Top

PATTERN NAME(S): Unknown

MANUFACTURER(S): Unknown – Possibly Duncan & Miller

CIRCA: 1910

DIMENSIONS: 1-5/8” High, 1- 3/4” Diameter

DESCRIPTION: Pedestal design with an eight panel bowl and an eight panel octagon shaped base. Panels on bowl and base are cut with a sprig and geometric design. Similar to H&J 2965 except for the base shape and the design is horizontal rather than vertical.

KNOWN COLORS: Clear
89
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
11:22 PM ET (US)

H&J 472 Base view.
88
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
11:22 PM ET (US)

H&J 472 Top view.
87
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
11:21 PM ET (US)

H&J 472 Another front view.
86
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
11:20 PM ET (US)

H&J 472

PATTERN NAME(S): Unknown (Colonial Style)

MANUFACTURER(S): Unknown

CIRCA: 1900

DIMENSIONS: 1-7/8” High, 1-9/16” Diameter

DESCRIPTION: Colonial pedestal design with six panel bowl, six panel octagon base and scalloped top. Unlike the similar version (H&J 2960) this salt is taller, has a deeper bowl, the rim is cut and polished and does not flare outward at the top.

KNOWN COLORS: Blue
85
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
11:13 PM ET (US)

H&J 3863 Base view.
84
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
11:12 PM ET (US)

H&J 3863 Top view.
83
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
11:12 PM ET (US)

H&J 3863 Another side view.
82
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
11:11 PM ET (US)

H&J 3863 Side view.
81
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
11:10 PM ET (US)

H&J 3863
Salty Comments #24

PATTERN NAME(S): No. 73 Thumbnail Pattern

MANUFACTURER(S): Duncan & Miller

CIRCA: 1905

DIMENSIONS: 1-3/4” High, 2” Diameter

DESCRIPTION: Colonial pedestal design with six panel bowl, six panel base and scalloped top. The distinguishing characteristic of this D&M Thumbnail pattern are the loops that outline each of the panels around the bowl, thus making them appear as thumbnails. Top scallops of this salt are decorated with silver deposit work.

KNOWN COLORS: Clear with silver deposit
Edited 08-10-2018 05:06 PM
80
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
10:46 PM ET (US)

H&J 3406 Base view.
79
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
10:46 PM ET (US)

H&J 3406 Top view.
78
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
10:45 PM ET (US)

H&J 3406 Side view.
77
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
10:44 PM ET (US)

H&J 3406
Smith: 80-1-3
Salty Comments: #22
OSC: Plate 849

PATTERN NAME(S): Homestead – No. 63

MANUFACTURER(S): Duncan & Miller

CIRCA: 1900-05

DIMENSIONS: 1-7/8” High, 1-3/4” Diameter

DESCRIPTION: Round pedestal with saw tooth rim, sun and shell medallion design and six panel base.

KNOWN COLORS: Clear
76
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
10:42 PM ET (US)

H&J 2980 Base view.
75
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
10:41 PM ET (US)

H&J 2980 Top view.
74
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
10:41 PM ET (US)

H&J 2980 Side view.
73
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
10:40 PM ET (US)

H&J 2980
Smith: 18-4-3
References > Fostoria > Nut Cups
Salty Comments: #13 & 60

PATTERN NAME(S): Colony No. 2412 (Footed Almond)

MANUFACTURER(S): Fostoria Glass Company

CIRCA: Introduced 1940 – Discontinued 1957

DIMENSIONS: 1-3/8” High, Width, 2-3/4” Length

DESCRIPTION: Oval pedestal design with swirl pattern bowl & foot and scalloped rim & base.

KNOWN COLORS: Clear
72
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
10:39 PM ET (US)

H&J 2975 Base view. Shows Libbey mark.
Edited 08-09-2018 10:47 PM
71
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
10:38 PM ET (US)

H&J 2975 Top view.
70
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
10:37 PM ET (US)

H&J 2975 Side view.
69
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
10:36 PM ET (US)

H&J 2975
References>Old Catalogs>US Catalogs>Libbey Glass

PATTERN NAMER(S): 1276 - Individual Salt Dip – Cut 0298

MANUFACTURE(S): Libbey Glass Company

CIRCA: 1919

DIMENSIONS: 1-1/4” High, 1-1/2 Diameter

DESCRIPTION: Small mold blown short stemmed salt with etched leaves and berries design. Libbey in circle mark on bottom of round base. Picture of salt found in 1919 Libbey catalog.

KNOWN COLORS: Clear
68
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
10:34 PM ET (US)

H&J 2972 Base view.
67
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
10:33 PM ET (US)

H&J 2972 Top view.
66
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
10:33 PM ET (US)

H&J 2972 Side view.
65
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
10:32 PM ET (US)

H&J 2972 Another front view.
64
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
10:31 PM ET (US)

H&J 2972
Smith: 10-4-2 & 80-1-2
References > Fostoria
Salty Comments: #60
OSC : Plate 850
Coddington: 25-2-3 (Master)

PATTERN NAMER(S): Hartford #501 Individual

MANUFACTURE(S): Fostoria

CIRCA: Introduced 1898, Discontinued 1901

DIMENSIONS: 1-1/4” High, 1-3/4” Square Rim, 1-3/8” Square Base

DESCRIPTION: Square short pedestal with scalloped rim.

KNOWN COLORS: Clear
63
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
10:30 PM ET (US)

H&J 2971 Base view.
62
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
10:29 PM ET (US)

H&J 2971 Top view.
61
Joan F.Person was signed in when posted
08-09-2018
10:29 PM ET (US)

H&J 2971 Side view.
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