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Gospel @TGE_Richard @the_gnos @tbc0

6
@the-gnos
12-29-2015
10:32 PM ET (US)
Tim, over the years I have questioned the wisdom of a theology that presents the murder of anyone let alone the living son of our God as a sacrifice. The practice of human death as sacrifice is pagan. Surely Jesus gave his life willingly to the life of repentance he lived and he died rather than compromise with the authorities. I notice as you write your explanation that it has a familiar ring. That being it is the accepted and unquestioned statement of faith I know all too well and is the statement I have come to question but more importantly I have asked myself if am comfortable with the idea of murder as the solution to my relationship with our God and I am not. I am not because I am not willing to nail my brother to a cross so I may enter into a loving reunion with my God. Nor am I willing to accept that someone else has done the dirty work for me. So I have found a new yet not original path for my salvation. I accept Christ as my Lord and savior and I stand against those who would seek to kill him.
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Tim ChambersPerson was signed in when posted
12-29-2015
05:17 PM ET (US)
@the_gnos wrote:
The essential question for me is. Am I willing to commit murder for my salvation? To accept a crucifixion as the means of salvation is to accept murder for profit.
I have never heard that argument made. Rather, Jesus teaches that we have already committed murder in our hearts. And Jesus says that there is no greater love than to lay down one's life for friends. God tested Abraham with Isaac, and then God provided the sacrifice. That was foreshadowing for what God was prepared to do to reach us. God sent His only Son, and that Son willingly gave up his life to pay the price for our sins.
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@the-gnos
12-29-2015
04:43 PM ET (US)
I prefer the annomimity Tim. I notice you make to point that stand on their own yet connect them without explanation. Jesus being fully human and fully divine then .. If God did not die on the cross.That is aspect of my concern. Paul has given us a blood sacrifice as the mechanizium for our salvation when if Jesus is fully divine then our salvation is evident by his mere presence. It is we that rejects and crucified him and still he forgives, not because but inspite. To my thinking, and I am not alone in this view, Paul interjects the temple system of atonement, something the gospel and teaching never embraced in the Synoptics
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Tim ChambersPerson was signed in when posted
12-29-2015
04:23 PM ET (US)
Just to clarify my previous post, I am replying to @the_gnos in the reverse order of their tweets. The freshest tweet is at the top. I didn't realize that until after I finished writing, but I'm comfortable with it as it is.
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Tim ChambersPerson was signed in when posted
12-29-2015
04:09 PM ET (US)
@the_gnos wrote:
@tbc0 it is not enough for me to parrot 1500 years of theology that has not brought peace, only division.
I will not defend the injustices that are easy to name, but I find great peace in the progress of Western Civilization. By all raw measures, life is better 1,500—even 2,000!—years later.
@tbc0 is the good news that Christ is born ? Or that Christ is crucified ? This is not any easy question
Why does the question have to be asked?! This is not a dilemma. It's not either/or, it's both-and.
@tbc0 to say one only occurs for the need of the other is to negate the teachings of Jesus
That is a good point. The Incarnation stands on its own. However, the Crucifixion alone is meaningless. If God did not die on the cross—if Jesus is not both fully human and fully divine—then we are not saved. But I also mentioned the Resurrection. You have been silent, so far. There can be no Easter without Good Friday. And it wasn't until the disciples witnessed the Resurrection that they actually started their journey to begin to understand Jesus. What did his life mean? What did his death mean? All started to become clear with his appearance at the tomb. And that clarification continued with every appearance, with every explanation he gave until the Ascension (starting on the road to Emmaus). It continued at Pentecost with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. It continued on the road to Damascus, when Saul became Paul and found his destiny in the proclamation of the Gospel to the Gentiles.
@tbc0 I question the teaching of atonement by blood. I see salvation in the incarnation and the rejection of such in the crucifixion.
You call yourself a gnostic. I'm sure I don't understand. The ancient gnostic belief holds that flesh is evil and only the spirit can be fully good. How does the Incarnation bring about salvation for you?
@tbc0 my search asks that I question this accepted narrative and deconstruct the Paulina view of salvation
Ok, I'll walk with you. Your handle is the_gnos, but your profile gives me no more personal information. Can I address you by a Christian name? Mine's Timothy, but I go by Tim.
Edited 12-29-2015 04:11 PM
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Tim ChambersPerson was signed in when posted
12-29-2015
03:47 PM ET (US)
For context, see https://twitter.com/tbc0/status/681925093237211136
Edited 12-29-2015 03:47 PM

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