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Document uploaded 10-02-2010 06:56 PM ET (US)

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75
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3
Glisten
10-03-2010
01:28 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 5
Working on these diagrams as the data comes to hand and begins to form itself into a coherent picture.
5
Glisten
10-03-2010
03:43 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 191
This is a vitally important point which could bear a deeper analytic expose.
6
Glisten
10-03-2010
03:50 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 228
This area is of specific interest to me.
7
Glisten
10-03-2010
04:51 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 277
As a potentially influential penetration of the current civilisational structure, I think this area possibly needs to "lead the charge" for change. Bringing radical transformative energy to areas of global leadership and nexus' of power could well catalyse a swift realignment of relations between systemic structures. This has been proposed and action is underway...
Edited 10-03-2010 04:53 AM
8
Glisten
10-03-2010
04:58 AM ET (US)
General comment
/m4 I am able to quickly compose VUE maps from conversational or topic analysis although have yet to attempt this on the fly. I would be interested to see this whole document in VUE format, I think given the complexity of the topics integrated it would be more accessible in a visual format, let me know if you want to collaborate in creating it...
9
Glisten
10-03-2010
06:33 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 324
I would here promote the notion that the primary source of human suffering is not so much in the civilisational structures themselves but rather arises from the naive realist prevailing altitude of consciousness which gives them their current set of characteristic behaviors.
10
Glisten
10-03-2010
06:38 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 325
I agree, it is consciousness of the situation which empowers liberation from its constraints. The primary task as I see it is to empower those with the potential to realise this to actually do so, and to begin to act from this higher altitude (this action is not going to arise from the current prevailing worldview).
17
Glisten
10-03-2010
07:14 PM ET (US)
General comment
/m12 To create an initial map of the UPLIFT scenario would require all relevant documents to be available for analysis. From this the key concepts would be extracted, nodes created and their relations defined. There after, other relevant factors can be linked in and related to a core conceptual framework which holds the space for the growth and emergence of information arising as a result of interacting with the map.
21
Jeremy Horne
10-06-2010
01:02 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 56
As a dialectician, how can one realize that there is a whole unless s/he realizes that there are parts? Conversely, how can one realize that there are parts unless s/he realizes that there is a whole? One is realized in terms of the other. At this level of cognition, one worries less about whether reality is accurately being represented than the apprehension that there is a whole and parts. One is concerned more about the process rather than how it is instantiated. Someone of a paradox arises here in terms of Platonism. Phenomenological reality cannot be represented, but perhaps there is another aspect that comes clear to us, process, itself, as reality.
22
Jeremy Horne
10-06-2010
01:09 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 86
This is problematical, as an exploration of the idea of "objectivity" quickly reveals. Patterns are tricky. 2-4-6-8...what is the next? "10" you say? No, it is 9, and without giving any rule, we go on, and every time one think they know what comes next, something else happens. Often, agreement is by convention, not because of an inherent reality that people see. A cruder example is standards organizations, where conviviality reigns over common sense in adopting common design or vocabulary.
23
Jeremy Horne
10-06-2010
01:16 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 122
As somewhat of a sidebar, this raises the issue of whether civilizations are organic, as people like Spengler argued. One may discuss the individual composed of organisms (cells, organelles, etc.), and societies of individuals, and the world of societies. The next step, given the organic model would be to have a healthy social organism and ultimately a world one.
24
Jeremy Horne
10-06-2010
01:21 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 145
It is worthy to have the discussion of the Classical notion of virtue - a person do the best at what s/he is able to do. We have lost all notion of this in the present world. Given virtue, one can address successfully the bell curve of the human genotype.
25
Jeremy Horne
10-06-2010
01:27 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 155
If one goes back to Hobbes, s/he can argue successfully that we really haven't emerged from a state of nature; there still is the war of all against all. The cogangs are not unlike a pack of animals taking down the most vulnerable of the society.
26
Jeremy Horne
10-06-2010
01:31 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 190
... in the manner of antibiotic resistance. God point
27
Jeremy Horne
10-06-2010
01:32 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 200
Lord of the Flies still stands.
28
Jeremy Horne
10-06-2010
01:36 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 217
Change "have always leaded " to "have always led"
29
Jeremy Horne
10-06-2010
01:42 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 244
" for a core " to " form a core "
19
JohnR
10-04-2010
08:13 PM ET (US)
Regarding item 277
This is an important issue...
Perhaps there is a middle ground between the two options that you both suggest - in some ways a slightly deceptive option.

Rather than seek commitment to clearly expressed goals, one could use the approach that many 'isms' have used. It involves only expressing sub-goals that would be appealing to people and expressing them in ways that obscure the likely ramifications (which may not be appealing to many).

My answer on quora discussed this approach...
http://www.quora.com/Do-individuals-in-a-c...nswer/John-Ringland
72
LJV137@AOL.COM
12-02-2014
03:56 PM ET (US)
General comment
Andre, I can't imagine how you discovered this remote, unused site; but WELCOME. I will dialog with you in more detail elsewhere. Your definition of yourself as a "generalist", but not "inter-disciplinary" resonates we me, although I have used transdiscplinary for myself.

I googled van Vogt ("t" no "h") and will put reading on my far too long leading list - I will be 80 next month, with a reading list that would take centuries to complete, and with new titles being added daily.

I agree that a GAME MACHINE
73
LJV137@AOL.COM
12-02-2014
04:01 PM ET (US)
General comment
NEED TO CONTINUE: GAME MACHINE and NSA, interesting. I see the technology of BigData essential for humanity to function as a viable organism with great diversity. As I posit in UPLIFT, there is NO WAY to transFORM humankind into Humanity, it can only be achieved by Societal Metamorphosis (in metaphor) replacing Civilization with Humanity.

I will attempt to copy these replies to your email, as I am not sure you will be notified. I feel this medium, QuickTopic, remains one of the most useful for multiple dialog - but here I couldn't REPLY to you comment - which I can do in QuickDoc. I abandoned this when I couldn't generate sufficient responses.
1
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
10-02-2010
06:56 PM ET (US)
General comment
This discussion space is for comments on the document "UPLIFT IN ABSTRACT.htm".
2
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
10-02-2010
07:36 PM ET (US)
Regarding item 25
Picture wouldn't load. Will try later.
4
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
10-03-2010
02:53 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 5
/m3 Glad to see you responding, Glisten. You are the first to do so. Without internal visualization I can "imagine" all sorts of visuals to assist comprehension. Maybe this is what I want and need BECAUSE I can't experience them mentally. I can "imagine" what they might be - why is this?

I would like to eventually put the whole book on UPLIFT in VUE.

Have you learned to spontaneously compose in VUE? I sense that once one get sufficiently familiar with it, one could flow compose - and return later to craft. Since I think hypertext I really desire a hypertext composing tool.
Edited 10-03-2010 02:54 AM
11
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
10-03-2010
05:39 PM ET (US)
Regarding item 228
Yes, it is THE critical area. IMHO the publication of semiotic structures for UPLIFT will not be sufficient for the successful launch of UPLIFT.

This area involves where I started with BUS
Bootstrap Uplift Scaffolding (Scenario,Scheme,System)

But, this involves more than composing and publishing on BUS, but the actual construction and seeding of the initial form of BUS. Critical here is the temporal depth of the scaffolding so that it is ample to handle the initial input of members - and a process where the scaffolding is immediately improved and expanded to handle increasing membership.

An issue. Should this be done by traditional methods, or should we begin the mangle immediately by using scaled down scaffolding for our initial team? One strategy: the initial team, by engineering design, create an initial BUS for themselves - and others they will recruit.
12
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
10-03-2010
05:43 PM ET (US)
General comment
Glisten, I welcome you offer to collaborate with me in creating a VUE format for UPLIFT. Can you provide a rough outline of the steps to be taken?
13
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
10-03-2010
05:54 PM ET (US)
Regarding item 191
For activists to assume their responsibility in the current mess will be strongly resisted. Contemporary activism is part of the SYSTEM.

The role of computers and media technology in accelerating this phenomenon does call for careful analysis. I don't believe that this will be easy, as those deep in the technology are very defensive. For example, the strong reaction to Jaron Lanier's critique and my own naivete about the cloud, hives, even Open Source; that it took Lanier's book to alert me to.

I sense that this analysis will be done within UPLIFT and have primary impact on the systems that emerge in UPLIFT. Attempts to modify contemporary activist behavior or computer/media technology will probably be futile. We need to create systems where different semiotic structures related to these issues can be viewed and compared. Current media and forums are inadequate.
14
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
10-03-2010
06:28 PM ET (US)
Regarding item 277
Here is where I recommend caution. My initial view is that the UPLIFT cogangs infiltrate but make no attempt to push for radical reform within the system. They can recruit, but primarily for action within the UPLIFT movement.

"Bringing radical transformative energy to areas of global leadership and nexus' of power could well catalyse a swift realignment of relations between systemic structures." This is potentially very dangerous.

I really see no possibility of a "swift realignment", as it refutes my premises for the need of UPLIFT. I am open to consider a mixed strategy with more tinkering with establishments than I currently feel safe.

In fields of power an individual who may have a new view has very little freedom for action. If Obama actually has a good perspective (beyond his rhetoric), his behavior has been both dangerous (continuing the Wars and destruction of democracy) and stupid (trying to deal the obstructionists).

Everyone in public office or public exposure is very limited in what they can say or do. Especially with computer searches digging up any detail to distort and make viral.

If comparative semiotic structures related to the JFK, RFK, MLK assassinations (and some others) and 9/11 were made, IMHO we would be forced to conclude that cogangs were involved in all. These cogangs continue to exist, and get stronger. Any leader who really attempts to rock the boat will find the Buzzsaw descending. I speculate that many good people are blocked from acting today because of this threat - to themselves and their loved ones.

We do need people to "lead the charge" - but within the UPLIFT scenario. They can lead in proper promotion for UPLIFT, but in a way not to attract attention.

I am open to quality argument and evidence that "Bringing radical transformative energy to areas of global leadership and nexus' of power" could have a cumulative positive effect; but I cannot support such action on faith alone.

Let me cite a small example. Only a small percent of the pledged aid to Haiti has been received and used. The USA aid has been blocked by a few senators on a trivial matter. None of the good people in USA politics or media are willing to take this on. This is NOT the action of a few right-wing senators. It is due to the global corporate strategy of turning Haiti in a global sweat shop. Actor Sean Penn and other celebrities have been strong in trying to make this known to the American public. They even get a few minutes on TV, occasionally. But, the global corporate agenda trumps. Those who have careers (hoping to do good things) know they must remain silent on this issue, or their careers will be sabotaged.


I don't know the details of what is "underway". There are many overt strategies of action that would make life somewhat better for many and which would not threaten UPLIFT. Other mild overt actions may actually enhance the success of UPLIFT. But we must be cautious so as not to bring the Buzzsaw down on us.
15
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
10-03-2010
06:34 PM ET (US)
Regarding item 324
I see the two perspectives as fully complementary. Which is primary is a chicken/egg debate. Naive realism can be a tool of Civilization or a cause of Civilization.

What is important is to accept the unpleasant fact that we cannot wave a magic wand and immediately eliminate suffering - except maybe to kill everyone, after which they won't suffer.
16
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
10-03-2010
06:44 PM ET (US)
Regarding item 325
The key here is "empower". IMHO "awakening" or "consciousness rising" is not empowerment, but a prelude to empowerment. The technologies I propose for UPLIFT is the empowerment. But, empowerment to create a new humanity, NOT to oppose or foment revolution against Civilization. UPLIFT is a means to replace Civilization by NU.

The spirit of vision is the soil from which relevant action emerges. But,it is attention to full realities and details of strategy that lead to patterns of action that characterize viable emergence.

But, in my conception of UPLIFT, many people will be attracted and become members long before they have a robust vision of NU (or even of the larger UPLIFT scenario). We can't wait for that; as such involve a sequence of awakenings, usually seafed. People can be attracted to UPLIFT by more limited visions and be provided with the means for immediate empowerment through BUS.
18
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
10-04-2010
01:48 AM ET (US)
General comment
WOW! ALL RELEVANT DOCUMENTS?

For some of the themes the trail of docs leads back to 1974.
We don't need ALL the docs.
How do we determine what to use and what not to use?

Who would do the extraction and by what process?
How are the links to be determined?

QUITE AN UNDERTAKING !
Edited 10-07-2010 06:58 PM
20
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
10-05-2010
07:13 PM ET (US)
Regarding item 277
/m19 John, I fully agree with you. In my initial design of BUS (Bootstrap Uplift Scaffolding) I am explicit that we initially attract persons according to some of their personal needs. The full comprehension of UPLIFT is emergent and will take time. However, some easy metaphors for UPLIFT are possible, and can be improved by empirical feedback.

As to how much about UPLIFT must be comprehended by those who will participate in the initial design of BUS is "up in the air". If I had much money I might be able to hire the expertize to do what is needed. To get voluntary support requires some comprehension about UPLIFT. So far, from the feedback from others, everyone is yet missing relevant domains and most people still try to fit UPLIFT into their existing conceptual schemes rather than consider it as an alternative/expansion.

I must point out that many significant aspect of UPLIFT are NOT covered in UPLIFT IN ABSTRACT. The scope of UPLIFT is larger than any other contemporary conceptual scheme (I know of) and it is difficult for others to grok its scope. My own consciousness, at any period, can only grok a small part of the UPLIFT conceptual scheme. I need to consult back frequently to my outlines to alert me to domains I am missing. This factor is relevant in attempts to share the UPLIFT conceptual scheme to others - it is larger than some human consciousness to even grok in experiential presence.

The concept that conceptual schemes can be so large in scope to beyond human consciousness, yet can be contained in constructed/woven worlds, needs explication and dialog.

Thanks, John, for joining in.
Larry
30
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
10-06-2010
03:37 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 277
/m19 John, I didn't address your first point:
"Perhaps there is a middle ground between the two options that you both suggest - in some ways a slightly deceptive option."

I take it you mean between full UPLIFT replacement of the existing order and somehow getting some players in the existing order to agree to radical reform.

I believe the deep structure, millennia long, of the existing order is deeply flawed and will be enormously difficult to reformed. I cannot imagine any viable scenario, but I am open to listen. But, I want to study a scenario, not a vague hope. I speculate that any such reform would take far too long, cost greatly in lives and biosphere destruction. And, I am dubious that any reform process would leave humankind with a system (local to planetary)of near quality as emergence/replacement would accomplish.

Finally, we must really study the power structure, anew. My feeling is that any serious attempt by a subset of the elite to challenge the top elite would be put down. And, I don't believe they could organize under the radar - which UPLIFT might be able to do.

The infusion of the UPLIFT movement into the ranks of establishments could be done without great problems, so long as they don't attempt to radically change those establishments. Their roles would be to mollify excesses and to be in place for replacement: THIS GREAT DAY. ROUGH DRAFT:
http://home.comcast.net/~larryvictor/NUCOM/THIS%20GREAT%20DAY.htm
Edited 10-06-2010 05:50 AM
31
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
10-06-2010
04:01 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 56
/m21 Jeremy, I welcome your contributions. Two general points:

1) I am open to consider the ideas of anyone, including the great philosophers - but I cannot make any of them foundations for what I envision emerging.

2) This is a very rough draft and there are many grammatical errors. I welcome any corrections, but they may not be the best thing from you at this early stage.

This topic is tangential to my theme. I realize there is debate on this issue. I feel that Bohr's Complementarity, Godel's Completeness, and more recently Chaos destabilizes rationality. What "is" "is" beyond us at this time. If we push too hard we encounter the turbulence of mystery. And, for me this is good.

If I had the time I would really like to explore this with you.

Our current formulation of wholes/parts are as you say. But I have alternatives.

1) Wholes are always incomplete, as a regression into nested contexts doesn't end.
2) Parts are complete, by definition.

And, we must distinguish between the structure of our semiotic structures and what might be beyond them, their "context".

We can't wait to learn more about these issues while Humanity/GAIA is threatened, and we have a very narrow window to leap forward beyond our highest imaginations.
32
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
10-06-2010
04:12 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 86
/m22 Jeremy, I don't feel you comprehend what I am talking about.

Given any pattern of discrete marks or symbols on a page, any person (properly prepared) can make a copy of the pattern that others will agree is an accurate copy.

There are some qualifications, but they are easy to handle.

This require NO ability to interpret or understand the pattern. It relates to the similarity of our visual perception for discrete marks.

This is NOT asking for them to come up with something new. It is simply an act of replication.

The ARE some fine details for this that need consideration: for beings with radically different perception systems; but for humankind at this time, we CAN recognize copies of semiotic structure (at least discrete marks on a surface [text and diagrams]- continuous flow gradients may be more difficult).

As I state (later in the doc), I discovered this by surprise, empirically. I was sure math phobic students could not perceive the pattern of complex symbolism. I was proven wrong!
Edited 10-06-2010 05:53 AM
33
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
10-06-2010
04:51 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 122
/m23 Jeremy, this, too, is an interesting issue - and eventually needs to be clarified for UPLIFT.

What constitutes "organic" has change drastically over time, and the term is used in many different ways today. Organic Chemistry is but a branch of reductionist physics; although very large organic molecules seem to have emergent properties. Older attempts to model human societies from biological system used mechanistic models of biology. Many still believe that is all there are in COSMOS: mechanisms.

I have some "wild" speculations about what separates animate from inanimate, living from non-living, organic from mechanistic.

Mechanistic systems are usually framed within a temporal sequence of momentary states. Each new momentary state results from a transFORMation of the prior state. In mechanistic systems there is stipulated no leakage of information, matter, or energy between momentary states.

I speculate that living system have (limited) leakage of information between what are now seen as useful models (not necessarily, reality) of momentary states.

"FEEDPAST BOOTSTRAPPING" is a process I propose that permits some information from a "present" to influence a "past". This is crude metaphor. Deeper: some "BEINGS" (SYSTEMS are mechanistic)have "temporal resonance". I am "feedpast bootstrapping" myself as I age. Humankind is "feedpast bootstrapping" from its primate past.

One of my earliest writings on this was presented at the 1994 meeting of the International Society for Systems Science at Asilomar, CA,:
https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AcqHxOX...xNmdwMm1ydGM4&hl=en
Actually, there is little in this doc about feedpast bootstrapping, but it contains seeds of many of the ideas incorporated in UPLIFT.

My vision of UPLIFT is not dependent on this organic/mechanistic distinction or the reality of feedpast bootstrapping, at least for those who work on the movement process.
Edited 10-06-2010 04:52 AM
34
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
10-06-2010
05:07 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 145
/m24 Jeremy.

Here I am speaking from beyond humankind. Virtue is within.

I believe that an "objective" assessment of our genetic potentials contrasted with the distribution of manifested traits in the global population would reveal an enormous gap - uncharacteristic of most other species.

It is much more than what a person is able to do; it is what he or she has the potential to "learn to do" (and "learn-to-learn to do").

The only quote I have really treasured is:

"If I may conclude with a micro-riddle within the macro-riddle, I will just add that what we all need at this point in human evolution is to learn what it takes to learn what we should learn -- and learn it."

 Aurelio Peccei in his 1979 foreword to the Club of Rome's little book: No Limits To Learning: Bridging the Human Gap, A report to the Club of Rome, by Botkin, Elmandjra, Malitza.

It is not who we ARE (our current distribution of competencies) but what we might be (our UPLIFTED distribution).
35
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
10-06-2010
05:18 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 155
/m25 Jeremy,

From my very limited reading of Hobbes, his biology was strictly mechanistic.

Cogangs is a concept for an alternative framing of social reality. And yes, they prey on what is best to prey on for their survival and livelihood.

Cogangs can exist at all levels of society. Probably most people are seldom, if ever, members of viable cogangs - although they may fantasize.

Cogangs may reflect a consequence of excessive individualism that seems to accompany "consciousness". Individuals join cogangs primarily to enhance their personal needs and desires.

This may be what Hobbes was talking about. As humans gained consciousness they became separated from "nature".

I will need to include an essay on how "nature" is changing.
36
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
10-06-2010
05:39 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 190
/m26 Jeremy,

I have been "making this point" for over a decade but have yet had ONE PERSON to make a comment about it.

I have composed essays proposing that opponents to establishments may, in their naive and often premature action, actually increase the power of these establishments.

Even the antibiotic metaphor garners no response. Yet, I agree, it is appropriate.

Deep down, it is VERY DIFFICULT for someone to assess that their actions have actually been contributing to the power of that which they oppose, and contributes to the resistance against that which they are working to achieve.

In a way, this is at the CORE of the need for UPLIFT.

This is one of my strongest arguments against transFORMation. No one deeply committed to working from within a system to change that system is able to accept -INDIVIDUALLY- that they are really part of the problem, as Pogo stated.

Thus, only via the EMERGENCE of UPLIFT will it be possible for change agents to shift strategy.

YET, for the actions we take today to hopefully modify our immediate situations, some look at this issue could produce small positive results.

For example:

The reports of most protest actions are now tightly controlled by the media, that the ONLY rationale for such an event should be the internal organization of participants. But, this never happens.

NO REPORT OF EVIL DOINGS by establishments will ever be permitted to reach the majority. Yet, most activists compose "seeds" which are consumed by the choir.

IF these activists would realize that their actions are actually counter-productive to their goals, they might begin to design and create actions that might be viable.
37
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
10-06-2010
05:48 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 200
/m27 LORD OF THE FLIES, may not stand! I re-read it a few years ago, and viewed the movie. There are "truths" and "untruths". What happens when a mix of somewhat developed beings are thrust together can vary greatly.

That early Brit experiment in giving very young students control of their educations process led to a system of highly detailed rules and laws governing all behavior. Tyranny from below. I can't remember the name.

The UPLIFT scenario is FAR, FAR from Lord of the Flies. The Bootstrap Uplift Scaffolding is designed to dampen the negative aspects, while enhancing the positive.

That we have NO parents or leaders in this venture is important.
70
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
09-19-2012
04:33 AM ET (US)
General comment
Glisten, and others - I don't know why I abandoned this. I would like to renew it. Within is my definition of CIVILIZATION and why I feel we must go Beyond Civilization (also the title of a book by Daniel Quinn). I don't know whether you will be alerted by this post a few years after.
Larry
76
Stan
08-21-2016
08:17 PM ET (US)
Regarding item 29
Perhaps that's the goal... Google appears to be working on this... They not only follow what we do on the Internet, but also where we go on a daily basis. I went to a retirement party at a restaurant recently. A few days later, a message from Google appeared on my phone asking me to provide my impression of the restaurant. I hadn't indicated to any APP that I was interested in that restaurant. Yet, Google knew that I had been there.
77
Stan
08-21-2016
09:13 PM ET (US)
Regarding item 118
This makes a lot of sense. It offers a direction-related notion of how civilizations are constructed. That is, who benefits.
71
agaudwin@hotmail.com
11-27-2014
01:28 PM ET (US)
General comment
Did you read "Le monde des Ā "? In English The World of Null-A" [Non-AristotÚlicien]
The author, Van Vogh, (A Canadian living in the US in 1946) has been influenced by Alfred Korsibsky's Science and Sanity," in which the concept "The map is not the territory" was developed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Korzybski If you didn't, you should. It takes place in a future world, where all the personal data and all "social networks" are completely mapped by a computer the size of a city, dubbed "The Game Machine" by the populace. In which every individual of the world must eventually live in for a period of time to go through a series of aptitude tests, control by the Game Machine, to learn which role it will assign them to play in the world. To me, Van Vogh"s The World of Null-A is as relevant to NSA today, as Jules Vernes' Voyage to the Moon was to NASA in the 60s.
38
Spam deleted by QuickTopic 01-20-2016 01:08 AM
39
michael
10-09-2010
01:04 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 1
I realize that this is an abstract, but setting the stage would be helpful. What is the current situation, that supports the need for Uplift? What factors brought about the current situation?
40
michael
10-09-2010
01:12 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 7
Also metaphors, similes, analogies
41
michael
10-09-2010
01:14 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 10
Does that mean we can't describe them?
42
michael
10-09-2010
01:16 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 9
You mean when we're delusional? It's OK as long as we don't harm ourselves and other living beings?
43
michael
10-09-2010
01:24 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 25
These pictures/documents appear to be on your computer rather than on the web.
44
michael
10-09-2010
01:26 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 26
This could probably be done now with Facebook, Linkedin and other social networking sites.
45
michael
10-09-2010
01:31 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 29
Do you mean full control over all aspects or full control to significantly influence a social network?
46
michael
10-09-2010
01:32 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 35
Or used?
47
michael
10-09-2010
01:39 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 37
This is a rather complex concept - who is your audience?
Maturana and Varela define autopoiesis indirectly through how an
autopoietic machine/system operates. As a characteristic process
of self-production or homeostatic organization. It is the outcome
of a direct trial to characterize the organization that makes living
beings selfcontained unities and makes explicit the relationships
among its components that must remain invariant under a
continuous structural transformation and material processing [4].
48
michael
10-09-2010
01:49 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 62
Sounds like your highest imagined self. Do you stop here?
49
michael
10-09-2010
01:57 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 30
This section is difficult for me to "grok", perhaps because I have insufficient data. Are you describing a model of a person that will be useful in describing the uplift process or experience? As you have said, any model is limited, and this limitation seems problematic. Perhaps it will become clear as I read more.
50
michael
10-09-2010
02:06 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 54
I believe that to say "we humans" doesn't recognize the bell curve of consciousness or the spiral dynamics/integral theory model.
51
michael
10-09-2010
02:07 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 56
We agree to disagree on this point.
52
michael
10-09-2010
02:13 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 66
Isn't it possible that there is a common physical external world, but there are 6 billion interpretations of that external world, providing the context for each person's inner world?
53
michael
10-09-2010
02:17 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 67
That would include visuals? Anything that can be represented digitally?
54
michael
10-09-2010
02:22 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 73
Isn't that all we have for our experience of ourselves?
55
michael
10-09-2010
02:24 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 76
As Byron Katie would say, "can you be absolutely certain that is true?"
56
michael
10-09-2010
02:28 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 77
What would be the negative consequences? One could say the same thing about rigpa, as it would make it difficult for a person to carry out their day-to-day responsibilities.
57
michael
10-09-2010
02:30 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 78
I prefer acceptance over respect.
58
michael
10-09-2010
02:42 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 85
Aren't you also observing a semiotic structure at a different time and it may have also changed (over millennia)?
59
michael
10-09-2010
02:47 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 87
I find myself reacting to your use of absolutes like "everyone", "never" and "always". Maybe you acknowledge room for exceptions, but your choice of words excludes them.
60
michael
10-09-2010
02:49 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 92
Do you mean reality with a capital R?
61
michael
10-09-2010
02:52 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 95
I would disagree. I believe we can have experiences with no reference to anything.
62
michael
10-09-2010
02:57 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 103
I think you would find that many, besides myself, would disagree that the COSMOS cannot be directly experienced. How can you posit the existence of the COSMOS if it can't be (hasn't been) experienced?
Edited 10-09-2010 03:00 AM
63
michael
10-09-2010
03:01 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 104
Ditto.
64
michael
10-09-2010
11:29 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 106
Could this detail be addressed now, As an introduction, rather than later? It would provide a context in which to view Uplift.
65
michael
10-09-2010
11:34 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 107
Perhaps a qualifier would be appropriate - "often" by tyrannical methods
66
michael
10-09-2010
11:36 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 108
Even today, this xenophobia results in tribal conflicts, despite authority.
67
michael
10-09-2010
11:40 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 109
What period are you referring to? The rise of the great civilizations of history seems to me to have been conscious and intentional.
68
Deleted by author 10-09-2010 11:44 AM
69
michael
10-09-2010
11:51 AM ET (US)
Regarding item 1
Why can't I edit my comments the following day? I wanted to add "At some point it would be helpful to provide references (hyperlinks) that support your arguments. Many are opinions that aren't always convincing to me", rather than entering a new comment.

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