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Welcome to the H. Beam Piper mailing list and discussion forum. Initiated in October 2008 (after the demise of the original PIPER-L mailing list), this tool for shared communication among Piper fans provides an e-mail list and a discussion forum with on-line archives.
 
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^     All messages            1886-1901 of 1901  1870-1885 >>
1901
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
10-23-2018
02:34 UT
~
James "jimmyjoejangles" Romanski wrote:

> I think Piper would be rolling over in his grave if he
> knew you were trying to justify smoking in his novels.

Sorry for the confusion. I don't believe anyone is trying to justify the choices Beam made in his writing, around smoking or anything else. Rather, what we're trying to do is to make sense of them for a contemporary reader--who is unlike anyone Beam likely imagined reading his work--while trying to remain _true_to_the_spirit_ of his work.

Beam would have never had his characters using a crank-handle on the front of their aircars to get them started. Similarly, if he was writing today and yet chose to portray 25th Century (Christian Era) teens smoking in ways that seemed odd to contemporary readers he'd offer some sort of "in context" explanation so that his readers weren't yanked out of the "willing suspension of disbelief" required for the yarn to work.

> I mean the fact that in the future you say the nanny
> state made tobacco harmless would be even worse.

No one's said anything about any "nanny state." What's been offered is an explanation that lets a contemporary reader be able to make sense of Beam's depiction of the future within the context of their own, contemporary sensibilities.

> Cigarettes are still a major industry today, even
> after half a century of anti smoking ads. Smoking
> isn't going away.

No, it's not, but as Jon points out it is a _lot_ less common today than it was in the era when Beam's first readers were reading his yarns, especially for teens hanging out in hospitals.

As I've suggested smoking isn't the greatest challenge here by far. Why in the world is Martha Dane carrying around a case full of mechanical drafting tools while wearing her environmental suit on the surface of Mars? Wouldn't she have some some sort of portable electronic device to use for sketching archaeological finds instead?

Or why is Merlin's presumed _size_ such an important aspect of the search for its location? No one today expects a "super-computer" to be the size of a building. If Beam were writing that story today he'd either not have Merlin be so large _or_ he'd offer an in context explanation for its unexpected size. (You can find my explanation for Merlin's size in the list archives.)

There's an interesting comment from Beam in his essay "The Future History" where he mentions having "sworn off" writing near-future fiction after much of what he wrote about early space exploration in "The Edge of the Knife" was superseded by actual developments in space exploration. Beam understood the challenge here and would have been just as diligent about trying to make his stories make sense to readers in 2020 as he wanted them to make sense to readers in 1960--if he somehow was able to understand the expectations of the 2020 readers as well as he understood those of his 1960 readers.

I don't believe these efforts at making sense of his work for contemporary readers would trouble Beam at all (much less having him rolling in his grave).

YMMV,

David
--
"It is not . . . the business of an author of fiction to improve or inspire or educate his reader, or to save the world from fascism, communism, racism, capitalism, socialism, or anything else. [The author's] main objective is to purvey entertainment of the sort his reader wants. If he has done this, by writing interestingly about interesting people, human or otherwise, doing interesting things, he has discharged his duty and earned his check." - H. Beam Piper, "Double: Bill Symposium" interview
~
1900
jimmyjoejanglesPerson was signed in when posted
10-22-2018
14:02 UT
I submit that reporters and fisherman are two of the people who will always be smokers, as are many of his characters. AS for cigarette in the hospital, I always thought it was an act of friendship, not necessarily condoned or allowed. I mean the poor kid had burns on ninety percent of his body, he needed a cigarette.
1899
Jon CrockerPerson was signed in when posted
10-22-2018
05:45 UT
True, people smoked a lot at the time, but now it's not as common.

Which is where the discussion about 'contemporary' comes in - at one point, people used horse and carriage for transport, or used snuff a lot more than now, or they drank absinthe, or they powdered their wigs, or if you want to go all the way back to an Early Dynasty period of Old Kingdom Egypt, compounded goose fat and crushed scarab beetle bits to make eye shadow for upper class women.

I submit that if you had characters doing any of those things frequently it would help date which period the piece was from, just as having teenagers smoke in the hospital helps date the era that scene was written in.
1898
jimmyjoejanglesPerson was signed in when posted
10-21-2018
22:29 UT
I think Piper would be rolling over in his grave if he knew you were trying to justify smoking in his novels. I mean the fact that in the future you say the nanny state made tobacco harmless would be even worse. Cigarettes are still a major industry today, even after half a century of anti smoking ads. Smoking isn't going away. Look at all the vaporisers and other "safe" ways to still use tobacco that are just becoming popular. His depictions of smokers is what makes his worlds so real, smokers exist. Its clear that not many of you are smokers, and neither am I.
1897
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
10-21-2018
16:07 UT
~
John Carr writes:

> In my Terro-Human Future History novels, I
> mention that the health problems associated
> with smoking have been eliminated. Having
> characters smoking pipes and such is totally
> in character with Piper's work.

This seems like the most appropriate choice: keep what Beam wrote but find ways to make sense of it to contemporary readers.

A reasonable rationale for the continued prevalence of smoking is relatively straightforward but it gets a bit more challenging with something like Martha Dane's case of portable drafting tools. . . .

> At one point -- shortly after Ace purchased
> the Piper Literary Estate -- Jim Baen wanted to
> have Jerry Pournelle edit, removing smoking
> and other anachronisms, [snip] . . . as well as
> update Piper's technology.

I get the impulse here. Baen was doing what a good editor should do: sorting out ways to (re)sell the work to as many buyers as possible.

(This is pretty much the approach taken by Scalzi in ~Fuzzy Nation~. Unfortunately, that novel ends up seeming like something other than another Terro-human Future History yarn. More importantly _his_ "fixes" will seem just as "out of date" in a few decades. Someone reading ~Fuzzy Nation~ in the second half of this century will find a yarn that both seems anachronistic _and_ that doesn't fit with Beam's work. It is an effort that mostly "strip-mines" Beam's work, extracting what profit might remain in the "intellectual property" and discarding the rest--which is likely why, of course, they began with ~Little Fuzzy~.)

> That deal fell through when Jerry wanted a
> percentage of all future Piper sales; Baen
> couldn't put it through upper management.

Seems like a reasonable request, though I imagine Scalzi is only getting paid on sales of ~Nation~.

> and in return for copies of Piper's short stories
> (which had conveniently left with Baen) I finagled
> my way into editing the already named (by Jim
> Baen) Piper short story collections, starting with
> Federation.

Which is what (re)introduced me and many other Piper fans to Beam's work.

Thanks again!

David
--
"Why Walt Disney bought the movie rights to ['Rebel Raider'], I've never figured out. Will Colonel Mosby be played by Mickey Mouse, and General Phil Sheridan by Donald Duck? It's baffling. However, I was glad to get the check." -- H. Beam Piper, The Pennsy interview, 1953
~
1896
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
10-20-2018
19:16 UT
From: John Carr
Date: October 20, 2018 at 10:45:45 AM PDT

Beam was both a cigarette and pipe smoker, and enjoyed both. A lot of writers from that era, in both books and film, showed their characters smoking -- as a bit of business, displaying mood or agitation.
 
The downside of smoking was downplayed in the 1950's, but there was significant evidence of the link between smoking and lung cancer even then. I remember (in '59) when our high school principal died of lung cancer and everyone was shocked when it was learned he was a non-smoker.
 
In my Terro-Human Future History novels, I mention that the health problems associated with smoking have been eliminated. Having characters smoking pipes and such is totally in character with Piper's work. In one of the Baen Book revivals -- of Chris Anvil or James Schmitz -- the editors removed all the smoking and such to numerous complaints.
 
At one point -- shortly after Ace purchased the Piper Literary Estate -- Jim Baen wanted to have Jerry Pournelle edit, removing smoking and other anachronisms, (which is humorous since at that time Jerry was both a pipe and cigarette smoker!) as well as update Piper's technology. That deal fell through when Jerry wanted a percentage of all future Piper sales; Baen couldn't put it through upper management. Ironically, Charter Communications (Ace's new owner) was still hurting from the Ace Audit which Pournelle had orchestrated and had cost them a bundle! I suspect that may have played a part in that decision.
 
Then, Baen left to head up Tor's new SF division, and in return for copies of Piper's short stories (which had conveniently left with Baen) I finagled my way into editing the already named (by Jim Baen) Piper short story collections, starting with Federation.
 
Personally, I don't smoke and never have. But I always felt it was an integral part of Piper's work.
 
John Carr
1895
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
10-20-2018
17:29 UT
~
Jon Crocker wrote:

> Perhaps the smoking in the hospital room was an example of
> keeping the audience happy?

Oh, I'm sure it seemed to add to the verisimilitude for Beam's contemporary "juvenile" readers. Even someone who might have looked askance at a seventeen-year-old lighting-up would have understood it to be yet another indicator of the "rough" society on Fenris. In that sense, it's a great bit of detail.

But for someone reading it half a century later it's as jarring as those "dials" and "verniers" on Beam's computer displays and controls.

Cheers,

David
--
"In my 'teens, which would have been the early '20's, I decided that what I really wanted to do was write; I wasn't quite sure what, but I was going to write something. About the same time, I became aware of science fiction, such as it was then, mostly H.G. Wells, and fantasy, Bram Stoker, H. Rider Haggard, and then I began reading newer science (more or less) fiction--Burroughs, Merritt, Ralph Milne Farley, Ray Cummings, _et_al_. This was the Neolithic, or Hugo Gernsback Period of science fiction, and by this time I was a real 200-proof fan." - H. Beam Piper, "Double: Bill Symposium" interview
~
1894
Jon CrockerPerson was signed in when posted
10-20-2018
07:00 UT
Perhaps the smoking in the hospital room was an example of keeping the audience happy? The 50s was the era of the actor-dressed-as-doctor cigarette tv commercial, saying how delicious and nutritious cigarettes were, so I hear.
1893
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
10-19-2018
18:29 UT
~
Last Few Days: 10th Anniversary Celebration!

Zarthani.net's Piper Mailing List (and Discussion Forum) celebrated its 10th anniversary on October 4th:

https://www.quicktopic.com/42/H/tnfVKeAH3s4T/p0001.0001

In celebration of this anniversary Zarthani.net is holding a fundraising "virtual raffle." One each of the 1975 Garland hardcover editions of ~Space Viking~ (http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?263267) and ~Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen~ (http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?20650) will be given away as raffle "prizes." These hardover facisimiles of the respective original Ace paperback editions are both used books in very good condition.

Virtual raffle "tickets" are US$10 each, submitted via PayPal using the two buttons here:

http://www.zarthani.net/anniversary.htm

You can purchase as many "tickets" as you want. The raffle "drawings" will be held next week (on or shortly after October 25th) so don't miss your chance to own one of these rare Piper items!

Cheers,

David
--
"Oh, my people had many gods. There was Conformity, and Authority, and Expense Account, and Opinion. And there was Status, whose symbols were many, and who rode in the great chariot Cadillac, which was almost a god itself. And there was Atom-bomb, the dread destroyer, who would some day come to end the world. None were very good gods, and I worshiped none of them." - Calvin Morrison (H. Beam Piper), ~Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen~
~
1892
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
10-19-2018
18:27 UT
~
Ah, the 1950's, er . . . I mean, 480's (Atomic Era, that is)

Here is almost-eighteen Walt Boyd with his recently-turned eighteen friend Tom Kivelson, in Kivelson's hospital room near the end of ~Four Day Planet~.

"[Tom] finished his lunch, such as it was and what there was of it, and I relieved him of the tray and set it on the floor beyond his chair. I found an ashtray and lit a cigarette for him and one for myself, using the big lighter."

There they are, two eighteen-year-olds, smoking in a hospital room. This is the sort of anachronistic element in Beam's work which Scalzi's ~Fuzzy Nation~ was intended to address. (I'll leave it to others for the moment to decide whether or not Scalzi was successful in doing that.)

The prevalence of smoking in Beam's science-fiction is one of the more difficult items for contemporary readers to overlook. Smoking hasn't fallen out of fashion merely because it's . . . fallen out of fashion. Smoking in Beam's stories is out-of-place in a futuristic setting in a way that's similar to the way the "radiation immunity" in "Flight from Tomorrow" makes no sense: it's now understood to be poor science.

One way to address this is to assume that "future tobacco" isn't the same thing as contemporary tobacco. If it were chemically reconstructed in some manner to remove the carcinogens then it might make sense for two eighteen-year-olds to be smoking in a hospital room. That's easy enough to imagine in a society with "carniculture."

Cheers,

David
--
"The amount of intermarriage that's gone on since the First Century, any resemblance between people's names and their appearances is purely coincidental." - Walt Boyd (H. Beam Piper), ~Four-Day Planet~
~
1891
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
10-11-2018
17:24 UT
~
Last Week: 10th Anniversary Celebration!

Zarthani.net's Piper Mailing List (and Discussion Forum) celebrated its 10th anniversary on October 4, 2018:

https://www.quicktopic.com/42/H/tnfVKeAH3s4T/p0001.0001

In celebration of this anniversary Zarthani.net is holding a fundraising "virtual raffle." One each of the 1975 Garland hardcover editions of ~Space Viking~ (http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?263267) and ~Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen~ (http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?20650) will be given away as raffle "prizes." These hardover facisimiles of the respective original Ace paperback editions are both used books in very good condition.

Virtual raffle "tickets" are US$10 each, submitted via PayPal using the two buttons here:

http://www.zarthani.net/anniversary.htm

You can purchase as many "tickets" as you want. The raffle "drawings" will be held on or shortly after October 25, 2018, so buy your raffle tickets now!

Cheers,

David
--
"Oh, my people had many gods. There was Conformity, and Authority, and Expense Account, and Opinion. And there was Status, whose symbols were many, and who rode in the great chariot Cadillac, which was almost a god itself. And there was Atom-bomb, the dread destroyer, who would some day come to end the world. None were very good gods, and I worshiped none of them." - Calvin Morrison (H. Beam Piper), ~Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen~
~
1890
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
10-11-2018
00:01 UT
~
Thanks, gentlemen. I'm convinced. The guy with the grizzled beard must be Lourenço Gomes.

Now, of course, I'm confused about the younger, khaki-short-wearing guy with the candy. Seems we agree he's not named, his role is unclear and he doesn't seem to show up later, like Quinton, Murillio and Gomes (because he stays on Uller). He does seem sort of superfluous to the activity at hand--though he seems to know a lot about how the nuclear prospecting works. If I didn't know better, I might suggest he was an Uller Company ~commissar~. . . .

It does leave me wondering what Beam what up to there. I imagine Jon is correct that some of this was editing. You can see that in the way this scene changes from the ~Petrified Planet~ version to the (shorter) ~Space Science Fiction~ version. Perhaps the "prologue" was added after the original draft of the novel was submitted, in haste late in the publication process.

I suppose we'll never know.

Cheers,

David
--
"The Quintons had to leave France about the same time; they were what was known as collaborationists." - Paula Quinton (H. Beam Piper), ~Uller Uprising~
~
1889
CalidorePerson was signed in when posted
10-10-2018
23:15 UT
I agree that the man with the beard is Dr. Lourenco Gomes. It’s the guy with the bag of candy that’s unnamed. I always assumed that Dr. Murillo was in charge of the group performing the A-bomb operation, but also agree that Beam doesn’t make it clear.

The main relevant quote is on pages 2-3 of the Prologue, broken here into sequential installments, as Piper describes the characters in “The big armor-tender” floating a thousand feet above Niflheim.

“The chief engineer sat at his controls, making the minor lateral adjustments in the vehicle’s position which were not possible to the automatic controls.”

That’s one character.

“One of the radiomen was receiving from the orbital base; the other was saying, over and over, in an exasperatedly patient voice, “Dr. Murillo. Dr. Murillo. Please come in, Dr. Murillo.” ”

That’s two more characters, the speaking radioman being identified as Ahmed on page 3.

“At his own panel of instruments, a small man with grizzled black hair around a bald crown, and a grizzled beard, chewed nervously at the stump of a dead cigar and listened intently to what was—or for what wasn’t—coming in to his headset receiver.”

That’s another character, separate from the chief engineer and the radiomen.

“A couple of assistants checked dials and refreshed their memories from notebooks and peered anxiously into the big screen.”

That’s two more characters, one of them identified as de Jong on page 5.

“A large, plump-faced, young man in soiled khaki shirt and shorts, with extremely hairy legs, was doodling on his notepad and eating candy out of a bag.”

And that’s another character, separate from the others, and particularly from the bearded man mentioned previously. This seems certain, because he is a “young man”, while the man with the beard must be much older, as his head is bald on top. In addition, the bearded man is “small”, while the young man is “large”.

Moreover, the young man with the hairy legs and candy doesn’t seem very busy, since he is idly doodling on a notepad, while the older bearded man seems much busier at his panel of instruments. “The man with the grizzled beard put his face into the fur around the eyepiece of the telescopic-‘visor and twisted a dial.” (ibid.) That this is Dr. Gomes, a nuclear engineer whose job is to set off the nukes on Niflheim, is confirmed on page 5. “ “As soon as [Murillo] gets here, I’ll touch it off,” the bearded man said. “Everything set, de Jong?” “Everything ready, Dr. Gomes,” one of his assistants assured him.”…Gomes stabbed the radio-detonator button in front of him.”

Though Piper left out the ‘grizzled’ this time (probably because it would have been redundant), Gomes is “the bearded man”, meaning the only one on the armor-tender mentioned as having a beard. So the small, balding bearded man is Dr. Gomes, while the young man with candy is the unnamed character. This is also confirmed on p. 7, when “the large young man with the hairy legs” (still unnamed) talks with the bearded Dr. Gomes, who has joined the younger man’s conversation with Paula Quinton. The young candy-man is also mentioned as bringing out a bottle for celebratory drinks, while Gomes clears a space on his desk for the cups, which Paula brings over. (p. 8) So all three of them have a drink—as well as the others, “except [for] the chief engineer, who wanted a rain-check on his”; plus Gorkrink of course, because of his people’s “taboo against Ullerans and Terrans watching each other eat and drink”. (p. 9)

In sum, I count 14 characters in the Prologue. The chief engineer, the two radiomen (one being Ahmed), the bearded Dr. Gomes, his two assistants (one of them de Jong), the young hairy-legged candyman, Paula Quinton, the four men outside in personal-armors (one of them Dr. Murillo), Gorkrink (also outside in a personal-armor at first), and another assistant who helps the chief engineer keep the armor-tender steady after the nukes are detonated. (p. 6) But since he (or she) is mentioned as being “one of the assistants”, this last character could be the other assistant helping Dr. Gomes along with de Jong. If so, that would make the total 13.

Now for a little speculation. During the time that Dr. Gomes is busy with his instruments, making sure that everyone is back aboard before he fires the nukes, the young man talks with Paula Quinton and offers her some of his candy. Like him, she doesn’t seem busy either, since she “lounged with one knee hooked over her chair-arm”. (p. 3)

Making a couple of guesses, I would say that Paula’s idleness is probably because she’s an extraterrestrial sociographer, not a nuclear scientist or technician. She can’t help with any of the A-bomb stuff, as that is outside her area of expertise. She’s undoubtedly there because of Gorkrink, the native Ulleran working with the Terrans on Niflheim. (pp. 5, 8, 9) The unnamed young candy-man’s job doesn’t seem to be specified, but he could be a geologist, since he tells Paula a lot about the elements and minerals underground, which will be brought up by the shots. (pp. 4-5) And after the detonations, he tells her that when the shockwaves get down far enough, they’ll really break things open, resulting in a volcanic eruption “every bit as good as Krakatoa, on Terra, in 59 Pre-Atomic.” (p. 6) So if not a geologist, he could be a vulcanologist. (Possibly a grad student in one of these disciplines, to bring in Jon's idea.) But like Paula, the unnamed young man is not a nuclear scientist, so he doesn’t have a lot to do while they place the bombs, and Gomes sets them off.

Incidentally, Piper included a bit of irony with regard to Dr. Gomes. He can’t wait to get off Niflheim. “I’ve had about all of Niflheim I can take, now. The sooner I get onto a planet where they don’t ration the air, the better I’ll like it.” (p. 7) The irony is that he travels to Uller, where, two weeks after his first breath of unrationed air, he is killed in the native revolt.

General von Schlichten says, “Where Dr. Lourenco Gomes, the nuclear engineer who came in on the Pretoria, two weeks ago? Send out for him, and get him in here at once.” There was another awkward silence. Then Kent Pickering, the chief of the Gongonk Island power-plant, cleared his throat. “Why, general, didn’t you know? Dr Gomes is dead. He was killed during the first half hour of the uprising.” (p. 148) This is a major blow to General von Schlichten, who was “counting heavily on Dr. Gomes to design a bomb of our own.” (p. 149) And this exchange connects Dr. Gomes’ setting off the nukes on Niflheim with the nukes they hoped he would build for them on Uller.

Thus, poor old, grizzle-bearded Gomes is dead. That means his soul has departed. So does he end up in heaven or in hell? Because it’s interesting that Beam makes Gomes the one who says “They call Terra God’s footstool; well, I’ll give you one guess who uses [Niflheim] to prop his cloven hoofs on.” (p. 7) One would hope that the good doctor goes to heaven, but as a nuclear engineer and the detonator of nuclear weapons which cause a Krakatoa-size eruption (and “On Satan’s Footstool”, no less), Gomes is certainly an expert on ‘hellfire’!

I agree that with Piper’s wealth of characters, it can get confusing. Sometimes I actually draw little sketch figures on a sheet of paper, to help me figure out who’s who in a particular scene.

John

PS. When first mentioned, Dr. Gomes has a “dead” cigar in his mouth. That's probably a coincidence, but Beam just might have been including a deliberate foreshadowing of the doctor’s death on Uller.
1888
Jon CrockerPerson was signed in when posted
10-10-2018
01:42 UT
I think you're right, he's acting like the guy in charge of the tender.

I think there might have been some edits at one point - early on, the scene describes the "small man with grizzled black hair around a bald crown, and a grizzled beard" and then a description of the man eating the candy out of a bag, "large, plump-faced, young man in soiled khaki shirt and shorts, with extremely hairy legs, was doodling on his notepad and eating candy out of a bag."

A couple pages later, it states:
"As soon as he gets here, I'll touch it off," the bearded man said. "Everything set, de Jong?"
"Everything set, Dr. Gomes," one of his assistants assured him.

Then later:

"You going on to Uller on the City of Canberra?" Lourenco Gomes asked. "I wish I were; I have to stay over and make another shot, in a month or so, and I've had about all of Nefelheim I can take, now. The sooner I get onto a planet where they don't ration the air, the better I'll like it."
"Well, what do you know!" the large young man with the hairy legs mock-marvelled.

I'd guess that if the bearded man is Doctor Gomes, then the young man with hairy legs is the mystery person. A young Company Exec? Sounds rather casually dressed for that, even in that social environment. A grad student, perhaps?
1887
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
10-07-2018
20:33 UT
~
Who is the "man with the grizzled beard"?

I've read the prologue to ~Uller Uprising~, set on Niflheim, dozens of times:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/19474/19474-h/19474-h.htm#PROLOGUE

but I have never been able to sort out who the "man with the grizzled beard" is. It isn't Lourenço Gomes. (He's the guy with the bag of candy.) It doesn't seem to be the radioman communicating with Murillo's party. His actions suggest he might be the commander of the armor-tender--he's not the "chief engineer" who's operating the craft--but he doesn't seem to get a name. That's odd given that Beam was so good at giving so many minor characters names. Even the radioman gets a first name at least: Ahmed.

The way the dialogue is written it's difficult at times to tell whether it's the "man with the grizzled beard" or Gomes who's speaking but there are clearly two different characters present. It's just that one of them never seems to get a name.

This scene is abbreviated in the ~Space Science Fiction~ version ("Ullr Uprising"); the "man with the grizzled beard" remains but still isn't named.

Any ideas?

Znidd suddabit!

David
--
"The Federation Government owns a bigger interest in the Company than the public realizes, too. . . ." - Carlos von Schlichten (H. Beam Piper), ~Uller Uprising~.
~
1886
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
10-05-2018
04:22 UT
10th Anniversary Celebration!

Zarthani.net's Piper Mailing List (and Discussion Forum) celebrates its 10th anniversary ~today~:

https://www.quicktopic.com/42/H/tnfVKeAH3s4T/p0001.0001

In celebration of this anniversary Zarthani.net is holding a fundraising "virtual raffle." One each of the 1975 Garland hardcover editions of ~Space Viking~ and ~Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen~ will be given away as raffle "prizes." These hardover facisimiles of the respective original Ace paperback editions are both used books in very good condition.

Virtual raffle "tickets" are US$10 each, submitted via PayPal using the two buttons here:

http://www.zarthani.net/anniversary.htm

You can purchase as many "tickets" as you want. The raffle "drawings" will be held on or shortly after October 25, 2018, so buy your raffle tickets now!

Cheers,

David
--
"Oh, my people had many gods. There was Conformity, and Authority, and Expense Account, and Opinion. And there was Status, whose symbols were many, and who rode in the great chariot Cadillac, which was almost a god itself. And there was Atom-bomb, the dread destroyer, who would some day come to end the world. None were very good gods, and I worshiped none of them." - Calvin Morrison (H. Beam Piper), ~Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen~
~
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