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Welcome to the H. Beam Piper mailing list and discussion forum. Initiated in October 2008 (after the demise of the original PIPER-L mailing list), this tool for shared communication among Piper fans provides an e-mail list and a discussion forum with on-line archives.
 
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^     All messages            1795-1810 of 1810  1779-1794 >>
1810
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
01-10-2018
03:16 UT
~
Thanks for your support

Once again, let me thank those of you who have made contributions to support the Piper discussion forum and mailing list for another year. Your generosity is very much appreciated.

David
--
"I always was a present-peeker [on] New Year's. . . ." - Elaine Karvall (H. Beam Piper), ~Space Viking~
~
1809
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
01-05-2018
15:19 UT
~
Expanded version of "The Return" on eBay

There is a copy of ~The Science-Fictional Sherlock Holmes~ on auction at eBay:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/192414428125

This is the anthology which includes the expanded version of "The Return" by Piper and McGuire. (The original version was published in the January 1954 edition of ~Astounding~.)

The price at the moment is fantastic for this item, though I imagine it will sell for a bit more.

Good luck!

David (not the seller)
--
"Why Walt Disney bought the movie rights to ['Rebel Raider'], I've never figured out. Will Colonel Mosby be played by Mickey Mouse, and General Phil Sheridan by Donald Duck? It's baffling. However, I was glad to get the check." -- H. Beam Piper, The Pennsy interview, 1953
~
1808
Jon CrockerPerson was signed in when posted
12-24-2017
19:17 UT
The payment in Imhotep furs is en route, it should convert to Stellars automatically.

I was trying to think of something 'traditional' that Sword Worlders would wish each other for the holidays, but everything I came up with sounded like it was rejected from the script of Dr. Strangelove, so I gave up.

Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
1807
jimmyjoejanglesPerson was signed in when posted
12-23-2017
02:38 UT
Happy Holidays!
1806
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
12-22-2017
15:06 UT
~
Piper Fans:

I've just paid the annual fee (US$49) required to keep this list/forum (and archive) free of advertisements and to provide expanded functionality such as image posting. You can support the continued ad-free availability of this shared resource by making a contribution using the PayPal Donate link at the top of the Discussion Forum page. (You don't need a PayPal account to make a donation, just a credit card.) Thank you for whatever amount of support you choose to provide.

Have a merry solstice holiday, however you celebrate it, and best wishes for the New Year.

David
--
"I always was a present-peeker [on] New Year's. . . ." - Elaine Karvall (H. Beam Piper), ~Space Viking~
~
1805
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
12-19-2017
06:08 UT
~
Jon Crocker wrote:

> Interesting map - since Imhotep is so well known in the
> Space Viking era, and there's a fair bit of trade with it,
> I'd have found a way to get it a lot further from Terra.

Ah, that's just because we can't see the "z-axis" distance in this 2D map. ;)

> But that could be another can of worms.

Seriously though, I liked what Beam did with the planet names in "Naudsonce." First you have Fafnir, a name from the Norse mythos, which suggests the ~Hubert Penrose~ expedition begins coming up with names at a point in time when there are few Norse names left. Next comes Imhotep, Egyptian mythos, suggesting that they're now reaching beyond the Norse but still using a relatively well-known mythos. Then comes Irminsul, Saxon mythos, which foreshadows the dive into the even less well-known Slavic mythos for Svantovit. He is illustrating here, in microcosm, the naming patterns over time of Terran Federation interstellar expansion.

What makes this odd is to see all three schema--the Norse "originals," the (Celtic) / Egyptian / (Hindu / Assyrian) "second wave," and the more-diverse-and-less-common "third wave"--appear on the _same_ expedition. That's likely not the way it generally happened. We'd expect any given expedition to be naming planets in the "Norse" phase, a later expedition to be naming them in the "second wave" phase, and an even later expedition--like that of the ~Hubert Penrose~ in "Naudsonce," perhaps--to be naming them in the "third wave." Sure, at some point one phase might blend into the next--as Norse "originals" are used up an expedition in that era might be naming planets for obscure Norse things and a few Celtic or Egyptian things--but you wouldn't expect all three to be occurring at a given time for the same expedition.

It's an interesting instance of Beam trampling a bit over his dramatic narrative in what seems to be an effort to reveal some of his background setting.

~Fwoonk~,

David
--
The first extrasolar planets, as they had been discovered, had been named from Norse mythology--Odin and Baldur and Thor, Uller and Freya, Bifrost and Asgard and Niflheim. When the Norse names ran out, the discoverers had turned to other mythologies, Celtic and Egyptian and Hindu and Assyrian, and by the middle of the Seventh Century they were naming planets for almost anything." -- H. Beam Piper, "Graveyard of Dreams"
~
1804
Jon CrockerPerson was signed in when posted
12-17-2017
05:43 UT
Interesting map - since Imhotep is so well known in the Space Viking era, and there's a fair bit of trade with it, I'd have found a way to get it a lot further from Terra.

But that could be another can of worms.
1803
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
12-15-2017
16:23 UT
~
Six Months to Every Planet?

Here is an interesting, if fanciful (because it's two-dimensional), map from Rogue Games' ~Transmissions from Piper~ role-playing game supplement:

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/9teuazv4l...es/1-35358eb923.jpg

This map claims to depict the "Voyage of the ~Hubert Penrose~," the starship of the Terran Federation Navy-Colonial Office expedition in "Naudsonce." There are planets on this map which are never mentioned (by name, at least) in Piper's yarn but what's interesting is the path shown for the expedition. Even in 2D it's obvious that a journey from Terra to Svantovit that follows that wandering path via each of the planets shown here would take longer, for a starship traveling at the same speed, than a trip directly to Svantovit from Terra.

Here, I think, is a nice visual depiction--in 2D, of course--of the "milk-run" explanation of the "six months to everywhere" conundrum we encounter in many of Beam's Future History yarns. The travel time for a "milk-run" that looks something like the "voyage of the ~Hubert Penrose~" might very well be six months, even though a direct voyage to Terra might take less time.

Your mileage--or light-year-age--may vary, of course.

David
--
"As for the other five, one had been an all-out hell-planet, and the rest had been the sort that get colonized by irreconcilable minority-groups who want to get away from everybody else. The Colonial Office wouldn't even consider any of them." - Mark Howell (H. Beam Piper), "Naudsonce"
~
1802
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
12-13-2017
03:48 UT
~
Jon Crocker wrote:

> Yes, the Third Imperium Sword Worlds are pretty different.
> Still a good read.

On that note I cannot resist this chance for a shameless plug:

http://www.zarthani.net/traveller/traveller_sword_worlds.htm

This is very much a work-in-progress but my intention is to capture as much as I can of Traveller's (version of H. Beam Piper's) Sword Worlds.

Smash the traitors first!

David
--
"I don't know what plans you have for a next story project, but the world-picture you've been building up in the Sword Worlds stories, or Space Viking stories, or whatever you designate the series, offers some lovely possibilities." -- John W. Campbell
~
1801
Jon CrockerPerson was signed in when posted
12-13-2017
03:41 UT
Thanks for the tip - I do check out Far Future Enterprises from time to time.

Yes, the Third Imperium Sword Worlds are pretty different. Still a good read.
1800
Dale RidderPerson was signed in when posted
12-11-2017
00:53 UT
Jon Crocker wrote:

"There used to be a game company in the US, Game Designers Workshop, they were active from the late 70s to early 90s - they had read some Piper, they named a part of space in the Traveller RPG after the Sword Worlds. One of their board games was Triplanetary, a vector movement spaceship game, and I just realized where they might have gotten the name from. (Fun fact, Steve Jackson Games is slated to do a Kickstarter-backed re-release of Triplanetary around the middle of next month.)"

Far Future Enterprises is still producing the Traveller RPG, and this can be found at either the Far Futures Website and also DriveThruRPG. There is a confederation called the Sword Worlds, but the Sword Worlders as depicted at not exactly what you see in Space Viking. The similarity is in the names, not the people.
1799
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
12-10-2017
19:22 UT
~
Jon Crocker wrote:

> Both names are very evocative, I always wished we'd
> gotten more information on them.

We might tease out a few more tidbits. Both are called "Empires" which might, at first, lead us to consider them to be the same sector. But Second Level seems to be a rather "ugly" place in general. Yes, there is a sort of aristocratic representative-democracy in the Akor-Neb Sector civilization of "Last Enemy" but of the three other Second Level civilizations Beam tells us about, Khiftian Sector is almost paradigmatic among Paratimers for a brutal civilization, Jak-Hakka (not clear if this is a sector or something else) serves primarily as an example of a failed dictatorship, and the Luvarian Empire Sector is yet another "empire."

So, perhaps, there are both "Interworld Empire" _and_ "Triplanetary Empire" sectors.

> One of their board games was Triplanetary, a vector
> movement spaceship game, and I just realized where
> they might have gotten the name from.

Never played ~Triplanetary~ but I always assumed the folks at GDW who designed it were fans of Smith.

Cheers,

David
--
"Ideas for science fiction stories like ideas for anything else, are where you find them, usually in the most unlikely places. The only reliable source is a mind which asks itself a question like, 'What would happen if--?' or, 'Now what would this develop into, in a few centuries?' Or, 'How would so-and-so happen?' Anything at all, can trigger such a question, in your field if not in mine." - H. Beam Piper, "Double: Bill Symposium" interview
~
1798
Jon CrockerPerson was signed in when posted
12-10-2017
05:55 UT
Both names are very evocative, I always wished we'd gotten more information on them.

There used to be a game company in the US, Game Designers Workshop, they were active from the late 70s to early 90s - they had read some Piper, they named a part of space in the Traveller RPG after the Sword Worlds. One of their board games was Triplanetary, a vector movement spaceship game, and I just realized where they might have gotten the name from. (Fun fact, Steve Jackson Games is slated to do a Kickstarter-backed re-release of Triplanetary around the middle of next month.)

It's more dramatic to think that there were two sectors, both the Interworld Empire and the Triplanetary one.

While I was having a look at the most recent messages, turns out I'd missed the one about the Thorans. You're right, it does look too human, other than that it was good.
1797
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
12-10-2017
04:59 UT
~
Mike Robertson wrote:

> I always thought that Triplanetary was a shout out to
> E.E. "Doc" Smith!

Yep, that memory has always been sparked by this reference for me too. (It may even have been that an editor asked Beam to change "Triplanetary" to "Interworld" in ~Lord Kalvan~ for just that reason.)

At the same time, I think this similarity highlights the possibility that "Interworld Empire" and "Triplanetary Empire" might be distinct sectors. I mean, we know that Second (and some Third) Level civilizations are often interplanetary in scale. (There is even an "Interplanetary Sector" on Fifth Level where the Paratimers apparently move around the solar system to reach transposition points on Second Level time-lines.) It also seems that there is no faster-than-light drive anywhere in Paratime so the most advanced Second Level civilizations will mostly be restricted to the solar system. Thus, it seems likely that there will be many "interplanetary" civilizations on Second Level and, thus, multiple situations which will be "interworld" or "triplanetary" (i.e. spanning Earth, Venus and Mars) in some sense.

We simply don't have enough detail from Beam about either one to know for sure. If we take what Beam wrote at face value, then there would seem to be two different sectors. I'd be hard pressed to describe any differences between the two though that I wasn't simply making up myself.

Cheers,

David
--
"She went to Gindrabar, on Venus, and transposed to the Second Paratime Level, to a station maintained by Outtime Import & Export Trading Corporation." - Tortha Karf (H. Beam Piper), "Last Enemy"
~
1796
Mike RobertsonPerson was signed in when posted
12-10-2017
04:08 UT
Interworld Empire or Triplanetary Empire?

I always thought that Triplanetary was a shout out to E.E. "Doc" Smith!

Mike Robertson
1795
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
12-10-2017
00:56 UT
~
"Interworld Empire" or "Triplanetary Empire"?

In "Time Crime" there are two places where a Second Level "Triplanetary Empire Sector" is mentioned. We get few details about this sector--not much other than that it was the location of Verkan Vall's "first independent case." These seem to be the only two places in Beam's work where the Triplanetary Empire Sector is mentioned.

At the very end of ~Lord Kalvan~, when Verkan and Tortha Karf are talking about the difficulty of maintaining the Paratime Secret, a Second Level "Interworld Empire" Sector is mentioned. (It's not actually described as a Sector but it's mentioned in context with "Sino-Hindic" Sector and "Europo-American" Sector so it seems reasonable to assume it's a Sector.) As far as I can tell, this is the only place in Beam's work where the Interworld Empire Sector is mentioned.

Are these two different, Second Level sectors? Or was Beam simply being a bit forgetful here, meaning to write "Triplanetary Empire" at the end of ~Lord Kalvan~ but perhaps not quite remembering what he'd called it a decade earlier when he was writing "Time Crime" (and perhaps not having a copy of the February and March 1955 editions of ~Astounding~ at hand)?

Any ideas?

David
--
"Oh, my people had many gods. There was Conformity, and Authority, and Expense Account, and Opinion. And there was Status, whose symbols were many, and who rode in the great chariot Cadillac, which was almost a god itself. And there was Atom-bomb, the dread destroyer, who would some day come to end the world. None were very good gods, and I worshiped none of them.” - Calvin Morrison (H. Beam Piper), ~Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen~
~
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