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Comments on TAXONOMY OF WORLDS 7.htm (all items)
Document uploaded 07-27-2008 06:19 AM ET (US)

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48
deepwater
08-18-2008
03:51 AM ET (US)
General comment
/m47 Nuet asked;

Glisten, could you describe your temporal experiences as you
explore your brain as you described in /m46 . For example: How
long does a session take? Are the changes too fast or too slow?
Have you any volition? What aspect of your experientials leads
you to distinguish sources from outside or inside? How much of
your experientials are sensory-like imagery and how much
"intuition"?


Years of work have gone into developing the awareness now at deepwaters disposal of the nature and structure of the brain 'space' and its mind 'animator'. In the early phase of exploration a process of active imagination and creative visualisation was primary, it began with work to enhance the 'bridge' between brain hemispheres. Sessions would typically last about 30 mins to 1hr of focussed concentration upon the 'bridge' itself in which I played a role as a character “the observer” standing upon the bridge under a bright light. The 'observer' began by being observed and then the point of awareness transferred to the character who then looked in both directions into the separate hemispheres to discern their nature and structure as well as attempt to perceive content.
As this process became more 'natural' the 'observer' became able to 'see' in both directions at once, as though with two sets of eyes (this has since happened spontaneously in 'waking' consciousness.)
From there the work of expanding the bridge to raise its capacity for information transfer between hemispheres has been ongoing and the intuitive faculty has arisen and been greatly enhanced as a result of this work.

Concurrently there has been an ongoing practice of meditation (single pointed focused concentration) upon the 'Light' which seems to emanate from deep within the brain/mind. As this practice has evolved and the 'Light' expanded the intuition has discovered that the source of this light seems to originate from beyond the brain/mind structure. It appears that the brain/mind is a receptor/transmitter for this 'light'. When described as coming from 'beyond' this does not differentiate 'outer' from 'inner' it is difficult to find words that work...'beyond' is trying to get at the concept of all pervading essence, underlying energetic support, universal consciousness, computational space....

Intuition seems to deepwater to be a 'vehicle' through which non-sensory information can flow, there are often abstruse 'visuals' without discernible features, such as the stars and sticks you have described, also some'thing' that resembles being immersed in spaghetti! These will often be accompanied by vague emotion-like sensations which are not of the type usually experienced in the body/mind.
At other times there will be a process such as John has described as an “intuitive download” where a whole conceptual 'bundle' will arrive fully formed in “the back of the mind” from where deepwater can retrieve it and begin the process of unbundling, analysing, investigating, illustrating and trying to explain it.
Most usually these will be non-volitional experiencials which arise spontaneously. However if deepwater has been focused on a particular query then information related to this will often “come to mind” this way.

At times there has been the copious use of marajuana accompanying these “high flow” intuitive episodes, at other times abstinence from all toxins, mostly however this process occurs naturally and is best enhanced by focus upon the 'source'/ 'spirit'/ 'universal consciousness' otherwise commonly known as God.
 Thank you for drawing out this information, it is wonderful to share!

The Seeds of Change are a classic example of the intuitive process at work, the images are a collaboration of play between John and myself with no particular goal in mind. As we worked with them and I began to recognise the nature of the imagery related to my own previously intuited material (which I struggled for years to illustrate using traditional mediums) the seed of an idea popped into the “back of my mind”. These images could somehow be of benefit to others...

Then one afternoon (stoned) I was 'trancing' staring at one of the large prints we had made of these images and it began to 'speak' to me, in the same way that intuition 'speaks' to me. An idea I had been incubating for almost a year then sprang to mind, create a set of cards and a guidebook... I scanned the thousands of available images, selected the ones that 'spoke' to me and then over the course of several months I sat with each image and recorded what it had to 'say'. The result is the draft you and John have a copy of.
 
Not 'done' by 'me', just transmitted through this multi-purpose vehicle and into manifestation, spontaneously and effortlessly! What joy for the observer and recepticle of such a blessing :)

Re; abilities/disabilities, folks like us are differently-abled and currently undefinable!
47
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
08-18-2008
02:28 AM ET (US)
General comment
/m46 This dialog is very interesting. I have long believed that persons could share much of the nature of their experiential moments and fields with extended dialog. It is happening now.

We are either a source or a conduit for profound creativity. We know that much creativity is play, for enjoyment. The literature of neurologists, such as Oliver Sacks, is filled with astounding case studies of persons demonstrating unique competencies (or selected lack of competencies). This literature has shown me that much of our experienced world is both facilitated and constrained by brain structure/process.

Timothy Leary, in early books about his LSD exploration - when he was still scientific - reported that there were many levels of experience (often linked to dosage) where the frames were analogous to different structural frames in biological organisms: networks, cells, molecular, atomic, sub-atomic. I don't remember the details. I believe that what Leary knew scientifically about this nested structure influenced the creativity of his LSD influenced images. Yet, knowing this and "what to look for", he may have tapped into real structures within.

I believe the most challenging "alien" for we humans to contact and communicate with are our own biological cells.

Most of the reports and drawings I have viewed, composed by others reporting their inner experiences, have evidence (for me) of local (the person) creativity, and not involving any coupling beyond the person. However, there are sparse reports of specific information not known by the person, yet reported. Information leakage from future to present may "explain" much of this. I have developed a theory of temporal texture that permits information (but not matter or energy) from going back in time - and the subsequent phenomenon resulting I call Feedpast Bootstrapping. Individually we may be feedpast bootstrapping our own development from conception on -- and may even influence the meiosis creating the haploid egg and sperm of our parents. At another level, humankind may be feedpast bootstrapping itself from its primate substrate. At the ultimate level, life feedpast bootstraps the big bang and the unique parameters of physical reality (Nature's Constants) to create a physical universe better suited for the emergence of higher levels of life (and spirit).

I will expand on this later. jorl, I believe that all models of cosmic processes must be independent of "linear time". The phase changes that occur in the deep fabric of "reality" should not be tied to causal, evolutionary time.

Glisten, related to your experience of expanding perceptual fields, the brain process appears capable of transforming topographical feature into images from many perspectives -- as Google Map can do. Much of this comes from dedicated training built on inherited predispositions. There is considerable literature on OBE (Out of Body Experiences)demonstrating this competency; which is a far better "explanation" for me that actual non-material bodies flying through the universe.

In my research into mental imagery I discovered a few examples.

Aircraft flight controllers learn to envision the 3D space with planes as moving points -- transformed from radar screen images. This skill may not be needed today as such images can be generated by computers to be seen with the eyes and not dependent on visual imagery -- which could fluctuate and create severe emergency situations.

Some field geologists can envision a given landscape roll back or forward in time -- the images in accordance with their theoretical knowledge of erosion and uplift. Or so it was reported to me. The field geologist who told me this said that mineralogists can't do this, but they can envision crystal structures.

Most of these specialized competencies for transforming or morphing patterns in physical space in mental imagery are becoming competencies of simulation technology. John's work may be carrying this to another level.

I believe we have much more to discover about the integration of mental imagery with perception. Example, many strong visual imagers add to their percept of their visual space what they expect to be behind them, outside their immediate visual field. Their visual field in 360 degrees. This skill would be useful for persons needing quick response from objects coming into their visual field, like race car drivers. Much of what we claim to "see" has added to it (and subtracted or morphed) "confabulations".

For example, unless we attend to our peripheral vision, we do not notice the strong variation of focus from center to edge. A few times in my life I experience, briefly, a clarity of focus uniform across my whole visual field. I interpret this as a brief enhancement of confabulation, meaning that I normally don't do this as well as others -- which is probably due to my more general lack of mental imagery in sensory modes. There also a techniques for training the brain to use peripheral vision - so that a person could run fast through the desert at night. I started this training but did not experience what I was expected to experience.

Training and practice are important in the development of new cognitive competencies, as the various meditation and yoga practices demonstrate. I must withhold judgment as to the "objective reality" of reports of advanced "states of consciousness" achieved. I acknowledge that from one important perspective, what is experienced IS the fundamental reality. However the use of "IS" postulates another "level of reality" which confirms on "experiential reality" the seal of fundamental. Again, this does not mean that the experientials of persons in higher states of practice don't contain information relevant to the bigger queries.

All my attempts at meditation resulted in no change in either experience or behavior. Proponents tell me that even if I don't detect change, it must be there. Maybe, but I couldn't devote years of life to a practice that I disliked and (from other data) would probably not be successful.

Glisten, your Seeds of Change images are fantastic, but I have only surveyed them, not studied them as is needed. Some of the exercises that go with the cards I have done before, but probably not in the right manner or long enough. Many friends over many decades have recommended a diversity of exercises and practices. I have explored many but have yet to find one that came even near for me to really devote time and effort to. Nothing that I would read about the different practices or any testimonials gave me any confidence that I would benefit significantly to be worth the time and risk. Yet, deepwater and jorl have significantly impressed me that I am open to explore practices that may give me access to your style "intuitions". What are the features of the different illustrations that associate them with the aspect of change?

Again, from reading the literature of neurologists and those researching unique individuals I project on myself many similar lacks. I hypothesize that my experiential moments are "thinner" than normal. Lacking imagery I probably lack the penumbra of imagery pre- and post- the sensory stimulated component of experientials. My experiential are less rich, but possibly with sharper edges, than those with imagery.

I notice this most with my limited perception of music. At this moment I am reading Oliver Sacks "Musicophilia: Tales of Music and the Brain". In addition to lacking auditory imagery, I cannot perceive the "structure" of music. For example, I perceive an orchestra of many different instruments as but one instrument creating one, very complex wave front. I cannot focus my listening to one instrument or one theme; there is only the whole. I know persons who claim to be able to distinguish the different first violins in an orchestra. A musician in Sacks' book had lost his ability to perceive musical structure and his experiences were like mine. He was devastated. Once, I came up behind a band shell at a county fair hearing an orchestra playing Beethoven's Fifth Symphony. I was shocked when I could view inside the band shell to see that the orchestra was comprised of only one type of instrument: Jamaican steel drums. If there are only trumpet and drums, I can resolve them. I enjoy most music and have played trumpet (even in a dance band in high school) and later guitar and harmonica. My singing voice is terrible, much worse since larynx cancer in 1997 (cured).

What I read about what musicians experience from music, my experience of music is analogous to a color blind, legally blind person with distorted vision attempting to appreciate a landscape or artform. Although I do appreciate music I am often in awe about what I am missing. Yet, a friend with shredded optical nerves from birth, who reports that his visual field is a narrow horizontal line with fluctuating light along its length, also reports he really enjoys movies, including the "visuals".

Doug Hofstadter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Hofstadter in his seminal work, "Godel, Escher, Bach" goes to great length describing the structure of Bach's music. I spent many hours listening carefully to the Bach music Doug references and I could not once experience what he said is there.

In every domain of competency, the range from no performance, through novice and stages of excellence to super grand master is very great - more a logarithmic scale than a linear scale. It is OK to have limits, and learn to live with them - even build upon them - as some sculptures are known as much for their empty space as for their matter-filled space. My disabilities contribute to who I am as much as my abilities.

RE: "...this could be likened to a perceptual lense that is spherical and receptive at all points upon its inner surface, transmitting information to a central processor that interprets this information into what should by rights be an impossible view..."

Why should we be limited to one view at a time; why not parallel processing with multiple windows (experiential screens). Or, with superpositions, as in your spherical mirror example. We don't know the potential for experiential fields, and what advances could be accomplished with quality training using advanced computer display systems that account for the unique nature of each person.

Glisten, could you describe your temporal experiences as you explore your brain as you described in /m46 . For example: How long does a session take? Are the changes too fast or too slow? Have you any volition? What aspect of your experientials leads you to distinguish sources from outside or inside? How much of your experientials are sensory-like imagery and how much "intuition"?

The use of chemical enhancers may become important, as without question a molecule of a specific composition can significantly alter the experiential field. In my own experience, my "unobservable observer" appears "unchanged" no matter the nature of the "trip". But, how do I know, as "it" is the observer. Can the "unobservable observer" observe itself? "Detect" if changes happen - does that qualify for "observation"?

My mind keeps pushing a situation to the surface, as if demanding that I include it here. So, I submit before closing this comment.

My first LSD trip (resisted for two years) was in the Wisconsin woods, outside Minneapolis. With me were a couple and their little dog "Freedom".
During my very enjoyable trip I came upon a small pond, with the water mirror smooth. Reflected from the surface of the pond were the trees on the other side, the clear blue sky and some large fluffy clouds. I was peacefully enjoying the view when suddenly it all disappeared. The reflection was no longer perceived. I was now perceiving, very clearly, the bottom of the pond, with logs, sticks, and stones. I was excited about the shift, but then got interested in the pond bottom when, suddenly again, the pond bottom disappeared and I was again viewing the reflection.

My analysis: light is continually being reflect to my eye from both the surface of the pond and from the pond bottom. I would estimate 90% from surface, 10% from the bottom. My normal visual processing system, when confronted with superimposed images, will normally chose the stronger and suppress the weaker. Only at a near equal illumination might I experience both images simultaneously. Like the effect of LSD on my color vision, LSD shifted my decision making system from automatic. So, for a while I observed the flipping of perspectives. Eventually I learned to control whether I viewed the reflection of the pond bottom. I cannot repeat this phenomenon when in normal mental states.

We might have multiple experiential moments capable of being experienced at the same time. Normal functioning is for an inner decider to chose one and suppress the others. Could we learn to manipulate these controls?

Later I will describe my "groking" on elements in my pre-conscious, without them ever emerging to consciousness. My experientials contain "emotion-like markers" of processes in nuet's world, but I never actually experience those processes.

I want to shift gears and reply to some of John's comments. We will continue this conversation.

nuet
46
deepwater
08-17-2008
08:17 AM ET (US)
General comment
/m44/m45 nuet, this is fascinating and an irresistible opportunity to share some of the parallel experiences that occur in the Glisten/deepwater/Glide complex matrix of awareness.

Nuet shared;
“Once in a while when seeing perceptual vision (eyes open, awake) the rippling texture appears and what I see appears like looking at an image reflected in a lightly rippling lake. At times I wonder if the ripples might get stronger and a storm would wipe out my vision. All of this is VERY dim and I have no control over it at all. The whole experience seldom lasts more than a few minutes and I cannot make it happen.”

Similar occurrences have been registered, also beyond volition, where the visual perceptual field has become fluidic and the seemingly solid objects of perception rippled and appeared also to become liquid for the moments that they were so 'affected'. This was accompanied by intense sensation of expansion that could best be described as an expansion of perceptual field, as if suddenly my mind's eye was able to take in an area of more than 500 meters in an omniscient fashion. Within this field there was the apparent form of Glisten's body as well as all the other objects in the surrounding environment but it could be viewed as if in miniature and from a multi-perspective vantage (points?), perhaps this could be likened to a perceptual lense that is spherical and receptive at all points upon its inner surface, transmitting information to a central processor that interprets this information into what should by rights be an impossible view...

And;
“The awesome wonder of our many holons of biological/molecular systems, if experienced "holistically" within an experiential field could hardly be distinguished from total cosmic awareness. Telepathy and other so-called paranormal phenomena may still be powerful - even if they need to be mediated through brain processes.”

Ruminations and reflections upon meditations into the relationship of the physical vehicle and the activity that seems to be centred within it have led to some interesting observations in relation to the brain/mind interaction. From within the brain seems to have a structure and texture that can be explored like a labyrinth, there seems to be a 'core' from which fans out 'galleries' that appear to be 'organised' and cross-referenced like some type of intricate information storage facility from a sci-fi scenario.
The activity of the mind within this structure appears to flow through it like electricity through circuits and the source of this 'electricity' seems to simultaneously be the 'core' and some where beyond, as if there were a “power point” into which the 'core' was plugged and the 'electricity' was sourced from somewhere beyond it...
At the same time, the 'mind' seems to be much more expansive than the physical structure can account for and its abilities seem to include knowledge of objects and events outside the field of perception. It also seems able to receive information directly from beyond its experiencial context and although interpreting this information can be challenging, there are often clues such as imagery (much like the images coming out of Johns research) which although they have no context for interpretation at the time of arising nonetheless impress the memory and alter the processes of perception.

For the purposes of this conversation I will refrain from conjecture into how or why these phenomena may arise and just describe the impressions as best I am able within the limiting framework of language. I have attempted on many occasions to produce visual artworks in order to illustrate these phenomena, so far the closest I have come across are the images that John has created!

Now my eyes are protesting and I think its time to retire to meditation and then sleep.

Gratitude for this unparalleled space in which to share stuff that would make no sense to anyone else, I love you guys :)
45
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
08-17-2008
07:07 AM ET (US)
General comment
Continuation from /m44

I propose that many complex patterns of brain activity can result in experientials that are not associated with any of the senses.

Indeed, we are already familiar with one type: emotions.
Antonio Damasio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant%C3%B3nio_Dam%C3%A1sio
presents a theory that the brain "senses" the body and creates an "image" of the body (in the brain, but not to consciousness). However, Damasio proposes that CHANGES in the body, reflected as changes in the image of the body in the brain are experienced as EMOTIONS.

Emotions are experientials, components of experiential moments although we don't attempt to interpret them as another sense. Emotions are just "there". Some people may have sensory synesthesia associated with emotions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia

Where is an experiential moment located in the brain? We don't know. We know different regions of the brain, which if damaged or stimulated, effects reports of experiences. It is now speculated that experiential moments are associated with massive neural resonances over large regions of the brain. A variation of this would be a holographic distribution over the whole brain. It is possible that the patterns associated with any given experiential moment may involve only a small part of the brain - but the resonance pattern may float within the brain. Some speculate that the resonance may involve matter outside the body, as well as matter in the whole body. Some attempt to associate experiential moments with quantum phenomena in the neurons.

What we do know is that there isn't a physical convergence of signals to a special region of the brain that would serve as the gateway to consciousness. I tend to associate vision to my eyes, as the perspective of my visual experientials is from my eyes. But, my eyes are not the gateway to visual consciousness.

Where does the concept "democracy" exist in the brain? Same answer as for percepts - distributed somewhere. Now, we must distinguish between the concept as a complex pattern active in the brain working "sub-consciously" with other concepts (like voting, participation, freedom, capitalism, etc.) and when the word "democracy" is an experiential (with other associated experientials). We somehow "experience" concepts in association with experientials of words. But, what if some people could have experientials associated with the ongoing active concept, as we experience emotions associated with changes in our Damasio brain image of the body.

nuet can't do this, but others might. deepwater and jorl may have many dimensions of their experiential field that I lack.

I am not proposing the GliDe is ONLY a pattern in Glisten's brain. I am proposing that there may be patterns in Glisten's brain associated with her experiences of GliDe (and other "intuitions" -- more needed on "intuitions").

nuet is the whole universe as learned by Larry, data organized in some way in his biological body AND POSSIBLY elsewhere, as well. Is it possible that Larry might learn to "expand" his experiential field to permit all kinds of new experientials -- all of nuet, all the time. I don't believe it possible to that extent, which is another topic. But some persons, such as Glisten and John could literally have large parts of deepwater and jorl in their experiential fields -- NOT as new senses, but as new experientials, as emotion is not a new sense. However, sensory imagery may accompany these new experientials and one may not notice the association, giving credit for the new deep experiential to the associated sensory image.

I'm getting sleepy, so I need to finish up this comment soon.

If experientials can be associated with complex patterns in the brain, why not with the rest of the tangled universe. Some are proposing this, and I am very open to consider the hypothesis. Because a person's experientials claim the truth of this hypothesis does not confirm its truth.

At this stage, I personally feel that CONTACT with deeper forces or processes -- that jorl associates with cosmic "dimensions" that may be shifting as in a "phase change" -- are received/filtered/confabulated in the brain; and that our experiential fields are limited to our brain/body. The awesome wonder of our many holons of biological/molecular systems, if experienced "holistically" within an experiential field could hardly be distinguished from total cosmic awareness. Telepathy and other so-called paranormal phenomena may still be powerful - even if they need to be mediated through brain processes.

deepwater's GliDe, nuet's enuet, and jorl's xxxxxx need not be interpreted exactly the same. -----

I'm staring at this screen not writing anything - which tells me I should go to bed. I will do a quick edit and submit, even though I may need to make some corrections and qualifications later.

Good Night -- nuet
44
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
08-17-2008
05:49 AM ET (US)
General comment
/M42 deepwater, your words both comfort and encourage. Many thanks.
I don't complain about the time and effort, those moments are the high points of my days. I only wish I had more time. Today, after posting /m41 I was interrupted by a family crisis - which sets my emotions soaring and my concentration poor. I feel able now to resume.

GliDe - most interesting. I conceptually hypothesize that I have a core "being" that may be similar to GliDe. But I have no experientials associated with that "being" (or "force" - it may be neither "thing" nor "process") other than related conceptual thoughts. nuet (which also has no associated experientials) may be a tip (as of iceberg) of this "being" [must I give it a name?] bnuet for Beyond nuet.

I want to share my metaphors in attempting to comprehend GliDe - and what I might expect should bnuet lay tracks on my experientials.

My metaphor for "consciousness" (a field of experientials) is bubbles rising from deep within, at different speeds and on curvy paths, to rise at the surface (my experiential screen), bubbles on bubbles on bubbles (my pre-conscious) and when they burst they are "experientials". Most of the time bubbles bursting trigger more bubbles to burst and the cascade of bubbles bursting is the "experiential moment". There may be small gaps between cascading bursts of bubbles, between "experiential moments". However, we are not aware of these gaps because awareness is of bubbles bursting. I infer that those situations when "time slows" results from the gaps becoming smaller - and there are more "experiential moments" per minute creating the illusion that it is taking a long time.

I also notice that after repeating an episode (like watching a short video)many times I "miss" some "experiential moments" that I know should be there.

Experiential moments can merge giving the illusion of continuity - a phenomenon demonstrated by viewing movie films. Films are short still slides projected on the screen, with short gaps of black, which we don't see (the flicker) after a certain speed. The eye then scans the fixed image - which is the way of natural vision (the eyeball skitters and jerks, or we don't see). This gives our mind/brain time to attend to our emotions - which is why Marshall McLuhan http://www.marshallmcluhan.com/main.html called films a hot medium. In contrast, TV is a cold (non emotional) medium because the image on the tv screen is constantly changing and the eye/brain has to work much harder to create a suitable image for consciousness - leaving little time to attend to emotions. As the pixel quality and refreshing rate of tv and monitors improves, I don't know whether the distinction between hot and cold will disappear.

This is how I comprehend my perceptual imagery. The processing of the billions of independent sensory cells in my sensorium is normally not "observed" because bubbles from these processes don't (for me) reach my experiential screen. Except, on my few LSD trips in the 1960s the bubbles rose from the processing where the selection between alternative interpretations of the visual input gets made. For example, a painting with many splotches of different colors would not sit still. First one or two colors would remain constant but the others would flicker through different related hues. Then some of the flickering splotches would fix and those that we fixed began to flicker. We know that the experienced color of a surface depends significantly on the colors in the surround. This display continued, no solution to the problem being made (blocked someway by the LSD). It was stunningly beautiful, with the essence of translucence. I had a few other similar new patterns of experiential moments that on conceptual analysis I concluded that I was detecting processes that are normally unconscious. The other being the perception of texture where whether a part is towards you or away from you flickers, which creates the illusion of surfaces moving.

This is evidence that one can have experientials related to processes going on in the body and brain. Note, I was not visualizing these processes. Rather, my visual experiences were of a nature that I interpreted as having been influenced by the blocking of deeper decision making. Since, I have talked with visual artists who claim to be able to experience this color shifting and translucence on command. Others report being able to experience the shape of their inner organs.

-------------------------------------

I said I have no mental imagery in sensory modes. This is not strictly true. If I close my eyes I am aware of my visual field illuminated by light through my eyelids. The edge of the visual field with eyes closed is the same as with eyes open. This is perception, not imagery. If there is absolutely no light it can be pure black black. But, most of the time there will be a dim glow (not resulting from light or after-image) that slowly shifts a "texture" that doesn't permit my giving attention to a part. Amorphous moving texture that can't be better described. Once in a while this inner illumination will suddenly brighten, with brief swirls of bright blue, or yellow - never red. These inner colors can be very bright. I have no conscious control over what I am observing, with my eyes closed in the dark. This is a basic visual image, but they almost never coalesce into recognizable forms. Once in a while I may notice a familiar form emerge and then disappear in the swirl, like imagining animals in fluffy clouds or faces in wood grain. On only three occasions in my life did there emerge, briefly, a clear, focused, colored, visual image. One was the incident when I discovered there was such a phenomenon as visual imagery. The other two were in the same hour as I was coming down from an LSD trip.

With LSD I had no waking hallucinations, although surfaces were often unstable. But, when I tried to close my eyes under LSD I was overwhelmed by brilliantly colored, fine grained, rapidly changing patterns. The patterns were geometric, but the changes were so fast that if I saw a green triangle moving from left to right, it would be long gone before I could utter a sound. The experience was so intense that I could only keep my eyes open a few seconds. I haven't taken LDS for decades, and thus have yet to see what would happen if I were tied down and blindfolded.

This is getting quite long, and more than is needed to give you a feeling of how I might "experience" bnuet, or as deepwater may "experience" GliDe. But I will continue with a few more aspects of my "visual imagery".

There are situations when my dim visual field (eyes closed & dark) takes on a very fine grained pixelated texture. Sometimes it is like very dim, small stars or scattered thin sticks. I have come to view them as the texture of my experiential screen - like the texture of canvass for painting. Most of the time when I experience this, there are very fine ripples in the texture.

Once in a while when seeing perceptual vision (eyes open, awake) the rippling texture appears and what I see appears like looking at an image reflected in a lightly rippling lake. At times I wonder if the ripples might get stronger and a storm would wipe out my vision. All of this is VERY dim and I have no control over it at all. The whole experience seldom lasts more than a few minutes and I cannot make it happen.

There is one other very, very dim type of image - like black on black. These are very fleeting images of faces or parts of faces, often from weird angles. Some may morph during the fraction of a second I see them. A few appear very closeup - filling most of my visual field. I have never recognized any of the faces.

A very recent discovery. I was lying in bed, dark and eyes closed, watching a rare display of Amorphous Texture - searching for patterns. My foot began to itch so I raised my leg to scratch it, my leg coming into my line of sight, had the lights been on and my eyes were open. A dim shadow moved across the amorphous texture exactly as I would have viewed my moving leg had my eyes been open. There was no shadowing of light on my eyelids by my legs; concerned about this, I checked and insured that it was pitch dark. Yet the shadow image of my leg as if seen by my eyes was there. When I waved my arms in front of my closed eyes I also was dim shadows where my arms would have been. This has happened about five times in the past two months. It is easy to explain that we are programmed to know where our body is proprioceptively, and it should be correlated with how we would view our body with our eyes. I have yet to inquire of others whether they have similar experiences.

In the next comment, I will how many processes within the brain may burst bubbles on the experiential screen that are not interpreted as sensory. This will be related to emotional experientials and how persons blind since birth conceptualize vision.
Edited 08-17-2008 05:53 AM
43
jorl
08-17-2008
03:58 AM ET (US)
General comment
/m41
Nuet said: "I have 29 emails from John and Glisten, announcing QuickDoc comments awaiting responses. More comments await responses, but their emails have been filed. I must give it more time."

Perhaps you could let some of these things slide by for now and just go with the conversation. If they are important they will arise again in the future.

Nuet said: "barracking - shouting to interrupt a speech with which you disagree, heckling, disruption, interruption, gap, break - an act of delaying or interrupting the continuity."

Ahh - I wasn't aware of that exact meaning - in colloquial terms I took it to mean "supporting something" - like barracking for a football team - one hopes that it will succeed and one shouts and puts in a lot of energy in support of that team. That is how I meant the word.

So "I'm not barracking for humanity or Gaia, but for the process of creative evolution." means that I'm not primarily trying to help humanity and Gaia succeed, I am only participating as best I can in the process of cosmic evolution. If this means that humanity and Gaia succeed then I will be happy but ultimately the overall process is more important than any particular forms that the process happens to manifest in particular times and places.

Nuets said: "In that I lack competency in "spiritual consciousness" (another topic for exploration), the nature of creative evolution remains a conceptual speculation."

Creative evolution is not a purely 'spiritual' issue - the whole process that physicists describe as Big Bang --> spacetime --> stars --> planets --> organisms --> ecosystems --> civilisation and so on, this is one perspective on the process of creative evolution. But it isn't just an evolution of outer observable forms, but also an evolution of inner cognitive processes. The whole thing is evolving and moving towards more complex observable forms and more complex cognitive processes. The process itself just is what it is, however there are many perspectives on it, some of which are spiritual or scientific or otherwise.

Nuet said: "the special position of Universe/Earth/GAIA/Humanity in the cosmos"

I agree that these things ARE very special, I do not deny that. I just choose not to make them central to my understanding of reality because ultimately these are ideas that arise from our experiences of the outer form of reality and there is so much more going on that is even more special.

Nuet said: "I must choose between attempting to catalyze my mission or commit myself to personal transcendence (with questionable prognosis). As much as the latter is very attractive, I must choose the former."

For me there is no choice between the two. Each is strengthened by the other and they resonate together. I personally could not do one without the other.

Regarding the term 'enlightenment'... I think of it as being like the way a child uses the word 'adult'. They don't really know what it means but they often think of it as some kind of goal or state that one 'attains' at some age for some unknown reasons. But in reality, as one matures there is no point at which one suddenly becomes 'adult' - we just keep growing and evolving in complex ways. Hence to me 'enlightenment' isn't some final state to 'attain', it is just a general phrase that points toward the fact that there is still great scope for further growth and evolution. Exactly what those later states are like, we can only find out when we experience them. The way to grow towards them is to keep clarifying and evolving our selves in whatever way best suits us. Hence my work and my transcendence are very complimentary.

Nuet said: "for nuet EaseMen and the "multi-millennial survival/thrival of Humanity/GAIA" is the context within which I explore "creative galdee"."

Excellent scope brother, I support you in this - humanity and Gaia are our main points of contact with the overall process and I too work towards their success as best I can but I try to look beyond them as well to discern the context in which they arise and function. I am not neglectful of humanity and Gaia - I care DEEPLY about them on a personal level - it is just that my work is conducted on an impersonal level and I realise that hunamity and Gaia are surface phenomena so I mainly focus on the deeper dynamic instead.

In /m42 Glisten says: "Whilst GliDe has no attachment to the outcome, it feels the weight of potential for what you describe as EaseMen, and will work at full capacity to assist those working along this line. The sacred nature of the product of evolution that is Gaia, with all aboard, is well worth nurturing, protecting and supporting."

Yes there is enormous potential and we should seek to help nurture and unleash it. I totally support the process of EaseMen, not as my sole aim but as a part of my aim.

To explain how I see this planetary system - consider a pot of water that is heating towards the boil. As the phase transition approaches, small bubbles form all over the bottom of the pot and become bigger, more active and more prevalent until suddenly, when boiling point is reached the whole mass of water changes into a rolling boil of bubbles. I see the existence of this planet and living sentient beings as one of those small bubbles on the bottom of the pot, and the approaching phase transition is when sentient consciousness makes its mark on the universe in a big way.

No single bubble can cause the phase transition and neither does the phase transition effect only one bubble. Even though they seem separate to begin with they are all parts of a single dynamical process. All the bubbles are manifestations of the approaching phase transition. The thing that interests me the most is the creative evolutionary process in which the phase transition is occurring - this is a universal phenomenon that permeates our local situation.

By understanding this process we have a good chance of navigating humanity/Gaia safely through the phase transition - but to truly understand the process we need to look beyond our ideas of humanity/Gaia. Not everyone needs to, but some of us must. We all need to focus on the areas that we are inspired to do so and for which we are best suited. When we do this our diversity is complimentary.
42
deepwater
08-17-2008
01:00 AM ET (US)
General comment
/m41 Full respect to you Brother, for the time and effort you dedicate to the path and for being so clear about the path you have chosen and why.

beyond deepwater there is a transcendent aspect of being will be referred to as GliDe. This being holds the plan for deepwater and Glisten's destiny.

GliDe is aware that it will require many dedicated workers in every field of human endeavor, from the "pointy end" pioneers such as deepwater,jorl and nuet, through to focused specialists with no capacity for seeing the "bigger picture" in order for the process to flow smoothly.

Whilst GliDe has no attachment to the outcome, it feels the weight of potential for what you describe as EaseMen, and will work at full capacity to assist those working along this line. The sacred nature of the product of evolution that is Gaia, with all aboard, is well worth nurturing, protecting and supporting. To this task GliDe is committed, (whatever the outcome as far as evolutionary results may be).
41
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
08-16-2008
08:37 PM ET (US)
General comment
/m39 /m38 I have 29 emails from John and Glisten, announcing QuickDoc comments awaiting responses. More comments await responses, but their emails have been filed. I must give it more time. The constraint of biological time is an important topic - for later, but soon.

I had to look up "barracking": barracking - shouting to interrupt a speech with which you disagree, heckling, disruption, interruption, gap, break - an act of delaying or interrupting the continuity.


jorl: "I'm not barracking for humanity or Gaia, but for the process of creative evolution."

This catalyzed contemplation. I agree, but in complementarity I feel that working to catalyze a process that will "insure" the "multi-millennial survival/thrival of Humanity/GAIA" is the most REESEE action I can take.

In that I lack competency in "spiritual consciousness" (another topic for exploration), the nature of creative evolution remains a conceptual speculation. If I barrack (and I should start, if not already doing it) for my mission (EaseMen) whose goal is the "multi-millennial survival/thrival of Humanity/GAIA", I am also barracking for what is my best comprehension of "creative evolution".

Humanity/GAIA may be ephemeral in the cosmic story, but it may also be central from an atemporal perspective. I admit to lacking competencies for drawing conclusions on these "metaphysical" issues. Until we know otherwise, Earth (a rare planetary system) & GAIA (a rare convergence of survival/thrival factors) & Humanity (a unique phenomenon in our known memesphere)-- all in a physical universe that is exceptionally rare (The strong Anthropic Principle) points to the special position of Universe/Earth/GAIA/Humanity in the cosmos.

This specialness, for me, is captured by the words and illuminations of Hildegarde of Bingen (1098-1179).
http://www.amazon.com/Illuminations-Hildeg...d=1218931445&sr=8-1
Her four adjectives for vitality (wet, green, moist, juicy)[pp 64] resonates strongly. The physical evolution of matter, still being revealed by Science, is a masterful epic - especially the auto-catalytic system of organic molecules that constituted the inner dynamics of biological cells.

I read into the temporal snapshot of GAIA today, including the strange story of the galdee of humankind, a vast reservoir of potential ready for actualization. These potentials are as far ahead as I can speculate. Should this "experiment" with GAIA/Humanity "fail", I look upon it as "cosmic humor".

In conclusion: for nuet EaseMen and the "multi-millennial survival/thrival of Humanity/GAIA" is the context within which I explore "creative galdee". This is as "far" as nuet can go. I acknowledge that nuet's context is but figure in a larger ground/context. I also feel that I must choose between attempting to catalyze my mission or commit myself to personal transcendence (with questionable prognosis). As much as the latter is very attractive, I must choose the former.

If a humankind-wide transcendence manifests, I will go with the flow.

Almost two hours creating the above sem. I this how I should best use my life-hours? It IS very interesting.
40
jorl
08-16-2008
10:12 AM ET (US)
General comment
/m36

To give a little more insight into the context of my latest 'download'...

I realise that I can define two primary modes that jorl operates in (they can be described as work and play).

The 'play' is an uninhibited "going with the flow". This means doing WHATEVER I feel inspired to do without thinking about it or questioning it (going with the inner flow). And also flowing with the stream of events in the world that I experience (going with the outer flow). In every sense I just let things happen.

Play often results in what I call an "intuitive download", which is the reception of a complete and whole non-conceptual knowing that is metaphorically 'born' with the mind and manifests, in different forms, within the world that I experience. Play is an occasional activity but it has resulted in the non-conceptual understanding that guides the entire work and the core of the mathematics, software, metaphysics, poetry and artwork.

The 'work' is the careful and methodical study, analysis, testing, expression, refinement and implementation of the results of the periods of play and the results of the work. This is the most common mode and it has resulted in the details of the mathematics, software, metaphysics, essays, application ideas, particular implementations and particular projects.

Being at work or at play is like what some call "being left-brained or right-brained". Jorl is a very different kind of phenomenon when at work or at play. However they both augment each other very well.

The "Seven Steps" is an example of the result of play. I was just absorbed in the process and letting it happen, without any clear left-brained awareness that it was happening. But since then I have been at work. Trying to understand it. Contemplating what its meaningful features are and which features are just part of the creative expression used to convey it. Analysing the metaphysical content and refining the expression. Applying the ideas in order to experience them and test them in order to understand them better, and then refining the expression. And so on. The document has changed somewhat and will continue to do so as the 'work' proceeds.

Nuets feedback has been useful in identifying areas of the expression that need to be clarified.

So far the whole thing is looking very interesting to me. I am sceptical (open-minded) about its true value, but I have yet to discern any fundamental flaws in the overall idea conveyed by the "Seven Steps". The example is also looking more and more promising as it evolves.
39
jorl
08-16-2008
10:08 AM ET (US)
General comment
/m37 /m38

I'm not barracking for humanity or Gaia, but for the process of creative evolution. Whatever forms it gives rise to, so long as they are 'healthy', that is okay with me. Humanity is just a passing phase - in some time scales it comes and goes in the blink of an eye. It is just one step in an ongoing process. I barrack for the process itself. It undergoes massive shifts at times but it has been continuously moving in the direction of ever increasing complexity.
38
deepwater
08-15-2008
06:01 PM ET (US)
General comment
/m37 Larry :)

What we place our attention on is what we become aware of.
Discipline in the focusing of attention is called for to maintain a healthy perspective.

A balanced perspective is vital to the clear understanding of the situation in which we find ourselves.

Conscious co-creation will be the outcome of the phase transition we are undergoing, and learning to discipline our focus so as to be able to co-create an outcome which includes our experiencial context is the work to which we must attend.

The ability to hold steadily focused thoughts within a clarified mind where they can then evolve into understandings which can then be effectively communicated is a worthwhile early goal for the pre-star "training camp".

I hope this has come across without to many 'loaded' words, phrases etc.

I think the more we stay clear of such terms as descriptors and attempt rather to clarify processes we could help each other move forward more effectively...

BTW it could be ego attachment to want Gaia to 'accomplish' something on the assumption that she is not already doing so with all on board, whether they work with it or against it. And if we are destined to move beyond our current form who can say that this is a 'success' or a 'failure' other than the ego?
37
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
08-15-2008
05:00 PM ET (US)
General comment
This is in partial response to /m35 . I started this as an email forward, but felt it needed to be put here. I will make further comments on /m35 .

John and Glisten,

http://oneminuteshift.com/videos/patheleven/a_shift_in_action

This video is an example of the confused NewAge message. I am NOT saying that you have this perspective or are confused. I do not categorize you as NewAge, although you (and I) share many of their visions.

In one, very strong sense, THE SHIFT is underway. Without question things are happening, some very encouraging, other quite discouraging. Different perspectives yield different assessments of "progress".

My concern about this type of message is that it can encourage many "on the path" to assume that they have reached "enlightenment" (as a goal, not as an emergent process). They look to assisting others to attain their style of "enlightenment" rather than working to attain greater "enlightenment" for themselves. Actually we need to do both.

I prefer we maintain a dialectic between half-full and half-empty perspectives, and not attempt to lock-into one. The lock-into half-empty is destructive; but the lock-into half-full can retard emergence.

A critical empirical issue may be the rate of shifting between these perspectives. We may not be productive if we attempt to have both perspectives simultaneously (if possible) or have too rapid an oscillation. I need much more concentrated time in the half-full perspective and not be triggered by "news" and "correspondence" into the half-empty perspective.

[ASIDE: This type of dialectic complementarity of perspectives may be characteristic of a UMA, which I am not sure the 7-step model permits.]

I am not convinced that Humanity/GAIA are destined to succeed. I can believe (but not prove) that in the long-term (which may be beyond causal time) there will be a continuing cosmic emergence. But, knowing the history of the universe/cosmos so far (as we "know" it), with its energetic nature and how new order emerges from high destruction (supernovae and large species extinctions, for example), and "order from chaos", I cannot be complacent that success is guaranteed for planet Earth. We must "earn" it. There is a complementarity between flowing with the cosmos and our participation in contributing to our emergence. We may be "more" than a "component in the system", more than just a "participant" - but, in some sense a co-creator. Participant/co-creator are another dialectic complementarity.

Years ago, in a CONTACT conference I debated with SciFi author David Brin about why there is no strong evidence for other advanced life in the universe. There are a number of interesting hypotheses, such as a Berserker species that detects and destroys advanced life systems. Others propose that the transition we are in today is very difficult, and NO planetary biosphere has yet survived the transition. If Sheldrake's morphogenetic field hypothesis is correct, even if we don't succeed on Earth, what "we" have learned will contribute to the chance of success on other biospheres in such transition. Or, modifying Akashic Fields as discussed by Ervin Laszlo. What we Earthlings do in the next few decades may have significant impact on the "future of the cosmos", even if we are not successful, this time, on planet Earth. But, we still have the opportunity to succeed, which is why my life is dedicated to this cosmic adventure/expedition. Is wanting EARTH/GAIA to be first an "ego trip"?

Larry
36
jorl
08-15-2008
07:36 AM ET (US)
General comment
/m29
Thank you for the valuable feedback nuet. It is good to learn how these things come across to other minds. I appreciate your insights into these things.

Nuet said: "I sense no priority for the four perspectives. I assume these are alternative perspective of "Unified Metaphysical Awareness"."

Yes they are all just descriptions of different perspectives on the same thing.

Nuet said: "I assume "metaphysical" labels a level "above" the four perspectives."

No it doesn't, it means a metaphysical-type-perspective, by which I mean one that considers the ontology and phenomenology of things and tries to understand the nature of reality. All four perspectives are metaphysical perspectives but they are not unified.

By unified I mean, not preferring any particular perspective but instead integrating all perspectives.

Nuet said: "I couldn't find the promised definition - other than a reference to it in your mathematical models."

The mathematical model IS the definition.

Nuet said: "I assume that your mathematical models are used to generate the mandala patterns."

Not exactly, the mandalas are just imaginative aids, to help create a visual memory cue for aspects of the model. They were made using software that I wrote as part of the research but they are not produced by the actual model itself. They could have been because the model can simulate any well defined system. The images arose from research into the interplay between finite discrete information spaces and finite discrete perceptual processes, and how these give rise to the experience of manifest forms.

Nuet said: "At my level, I cannot imagine how any math model could represent the table"

It doesn't represent the table - it represents the unified context, which is a dynamic, creative, experiential process. The table is just a very vague and simplistic description of some key features of the unified context.

The table is just a blurry view of the unified context - the mathematical model is a definition of the dynamic, creative, experiential process.

Nuet said: "For me, there is a total disconnect between the table and the mandalas. I can observe the changes between them, but they signify nothing to me."

There is a clear progression between the steps but for many people it would take months and years of contemplative exploration before they can clearly understand all the stages. There is no way to describe this in any way that would be comprehensible to people from the start - hence no attempt is made.

Suffice it to say that just because there is very little description of a step this does not mean that it is simple - for some it may require an entire life-time of effort and still to no avail. This is not a path for everyone.

Nuet said: "Did these patterns emerge in your mind as you explored the table?"

No, they synchronistically emerged in my computer as I explored the stages of progression towards deeper understanding and awareness. I felt inspired to play with images and these are what flowed through.

Nuet said: "You make reference to visual imagery as a tool in the steps. Did you not say that you lacked visual imagery?"

I lack it and instead use conceptual imagination - but most people reading the article will be more able to use a visual approach.

Nuet said: "Your words claim that learning the steps will be easy. In my opinion, they will be very difficult for most persons."

Nowhere do I insinuate that this is easy - please tell me what gave you that idea and I will change the passage. This is probably the most difficult thing that anyone could ever contemplate doing.

Nuet said: "It may require a person to have a very specific profile of cognitive competencies to proceed through your steps."

Very true - it takes great preparation. In the Buddhist tradition they say it takes thousands of lives but that is not strictly true. Put simply, most people are not ready for it and wouldn't have a clue how to make sense of it. But for those who are ready it will hopefully make sense and be of use to them.

/m33

Nuet said: "nuet interprets jorl's SEVEN-STEPS as a new tactic to bring persons asap to a "unified metaphysical awareness", from which it is implied they
will work appropriately in STAR."

Unified Metaphysical Awareness (UMA) and STAR are intimately connected but it is more that the current UMA document is a very rough overview and first draft of something that might emerge from STAR. UMA is not something prior to STAR, but a glimpse of something that STAR may germinate and nurture.

The requirements prior to STAR are to clarify and straighten out our thinking and communications so that we can work towards synthesising an understanding in the broadest possible context. One that is connected to reality and not just to a cloud of assumptions. Then we find out how to express it, implement it and metaphorically shed the light of wisdom that flows from it to help clear up various confusions and dysfunctions.

Nuet says: "nuet is concerned of the circularity of argument by NewAge advocates on challenging contemporary science by basing their ideas on cherry-picked parts of the very science they attack."

In what way is the UMA doc more of a "new age" argument than a scientific one? It doesn't favour one perspective more than the other, but simply describes them in relation to each other. In what way does the UMA doc challenge contemporary science any more than it challenges contemporary religion and spirituality? It doesn't favour one perspective more than the other? All conceptual frameworks contain aspects that are accurate and useful and others that are not. We must exercise discernment and that can be called "cherry picking" but I see nothing wrong with this. I have not included the entire scope of any of the four aspects, but have in a sense "cherry picked from all of them" and I see nothing wrong with this.

Regarding the three ways that you mention, the third is really the only way. The two approaches (inner and outer) are not separate but are parts of a dynamic process, hence ONLY a "synergistic emergence" is possible. The other two approaches are useful in limited ways but are not sufficient in themselves.

I should also mention that another aspect of the mathematics of SMN is that it opens up an entirely new technological field of activity. It is not just a 'mystic' approach, or a 'scientific' approach or a 'technological' approach - it includes all of them.

Nuet said: "Our challenge is not to discover and perfect the one true path, but to learn how to truly become "integral" (Beyond Wilber and Cohen), to learn to synergize and collaborate."

Very true !!! There is only one reality but there are many perspectives and no perspective is "the correct one". But some are more useful than others. We need to synergize and collaborate in order to identify and refine the useful paths - the ones that don't lead to runaway delusion, suffering and destruction.
35
deepwater
08-15-2008
06:37 AM ET (US)
General comment
/m33 nuet this paragraph asks for attention;
"Frankly, I fear such an explosion to occur with humans as they are today. We are quite likely to create HELL for ourselves. If it is not HELL, then WE have had little say in what is to come. Aesthetically, I don't like this. I reject control, but I want to participate in the future of my planet and biosphere."
 
Given that our thoughts create our reality, we could only generate a negative outcome by focussing on one.
In 'absolute reality' we have no say in what is to come, all we can do is participate, consciously or unconsciously in the process as it unfolds. The process of cosmic unfoldment has a lot invested in the continuing evolution of the process as it flows through all that is, including us, so it is highly unlikely to produce a devolvement into a 'hell' state.
Also, the rate at which we are moving suggests that the process will indeed unfold at its own rate and we can relax into it knowing that the guidance we need will be available to us at every step of the way. There is no need for fear of any kind (FEAR= false evidence appearing real).

I feel that if we each look deeply into each others understandings of the "big picture" we will be able to come up with an integral or unified understanding upon which we can collaborate successfully.
34
deepwater
08-15-2008
05:32 AM ET (US)
General comment
/m33 nuet, what you say "Our challenge is not to discover and perfect the one true path, but to learn how to truly become "integral" (Beyond Wilber and Cohen), to learn to synergize and collaborate. We have NOW all the potential for this. Indeed, this third path is what is needed to insure the value and success of the other two camps."
Is true, and when the necessarily prepared minds come together for this is will herald the change needed for the survival of our species.

What does nuet suggest in order to ascertain which minds are so prepared, and how to prepare those who are willing but not yet able to participate for lack of penetrative insight?

What structural format could best be employed to ensure the appropriate collaboration? Where do we start, with youth? With the educated, or with the gifted? Beyond ourselves who might there be that we can work with, and assuming for a minute that we are 'It' for now, how do we refine ourselves and our collaboration in order to produce and example of a truly integral approach?

deepwater is creating more questions than answers here...
33
Larry VictorPerson was signed in when posted
08-15-2008
04:57 AM ET (US)
General comment
/m29 JUMP-STARTING "UNIFIED METAPHYSICAL AWARENESS"

the following is nuet's construction of jorl's world re SEVEN-STEPS. There is no implication that this describes jorl's motivations and intentions.

nuet interprets jorl's (and deepwater's) strategy to jump-start an awakening and involvement in some others, so they may self-organize as needed to manifest their vision of the future of Humanity/GAIA.

One early tactic of this strategy was to seaf others to alter the role of "ego" in their lives - it being believed that most roles played by "ego" block necessary changes. nuet interprets jorl's SEVEN-STEPS as a new tactic to bring persons asap to a "unified metaphysical awareness", from which it is implied they will work appropriately in STAR.

nuet has a number of concerns about this strategy and these tactics. nuet cannot "prove" that they will not work or won't result in desired activity.

nuet is well aware of "new knowledge" that mystical metamorphoses are possible, with a little interpreted-evidence that it may be happening. for example: 2012, crop circles, convergent earth changes, UFOs, explosive creativity. nuet has long accepted "paranormal phenomena", and had done some research in it. nuet is excited about research in intentional influence and its potential. nuet is aware that our concepts about reality are not stable and that a major cascade of paradigm shifts is likely - but, nuet is concerned of the circularity of argument by NewAge advocates on challenging contemporary science by basing their ideas on cherry-picked parts of the very science they attack.

I have no evidence that a metaphysical/mystical metamorphosis is likely in the near future. All the nu phenomena are "weak" today. True, they may not be weak tomorrow -- as the nuclear bond is weak (non existence)at classical distances. But, do a few strange manipulations on matter, according to arcane symbolism (higher math) and we have the alchemical nuclear reaction. What strange rituals, chants and dances in different environments - some virtual - might trigger a massive change in mind.

Frankly, I fear such an explosion to occur with humans as they are today. We are quite likely to create HELL for ourselves. If it is not HELL, then WE have had little say in what is to come. Aesthetically, I don't like this. I reject control, but I want to participate in the future of my planet and biosphere.

In my development as an activist I toyed with silver bullet solutions. What if women controlled the world? Maybe, but they won't unless many other things happen, and then it may be moot whether women (in control) would make any difference. This argument holds for all single factor solutions.

I see two major camps organizing for significant change. I wish to propose a third way. One camp is what I am calling here the "mystical way", the way of very rapid inner change for much of the population; after which they will act in healthy collaboration in creating a better world. The second way looks to advances in high technology to give us longevity, mind control, nanotech health, vacuum energy, AI, ecological sustainable processes, etc.

In both camps I see no evidence of quality change for either individuals or organizations. There is talk, but no demonstration that significant inner or outer changes truly make the person a "better person creating a better society". If everyone awoke with Unified Metaphysical Awareness, I don't know whether they could develop a way of living together. I speculate that major breakthroughs in ordinary technology would be captured and used by the elites for greater control. The organization of persons in new ways must, in my view, come PRIOR to either a major awakening or major changes in fundamental technology.

The third way is the synergistic emergence of the technologies of social, psychological, and spiritual change. New emergent "education" defined as "organizing4learning & learning4organizing". jorl's and deepwater's ideas and process re "ego" would be components of this new technology, as might the SEVEN-STEPS. No fundamentally new discoveries are needed -- quantum physics may be irrelevant, but quantum epistemology may be important. Likewise, the relativity of space-time may be irrelevant, but the relativity of perspectives may be very important.

New knowledge will be needed, but we already know how to gain this knowledge - or what we need to know how to learn more exists in the archive of human texts and brains.

Our challenge is not to discover and perfect the one true path, but to learn how to truly become "integral" (Beyond Wilber and Cohen), to learn to synergize and collaborate. We have NOW all the potential for this. Indeed, this third path is what is needed to insure the value and success of the other two camps.

nuet
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