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science and spirituality

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  Messages 37-36 deleted by author 10-29-2013 07:03 PM
06:29 PM ET (US)
My wish is that your open source spiritual movement gains more momentum than Ubuntu which currently exists on less than 1% of all desktops, though other forms of Linux do account for 40% of data center servers today!

If religion is the server and the faithful are the clients, I wish you true client/server success in your spiritual expression. It is a great country where we can write our own religious code without fear of authoritarian backlash!
Deleted by topic administrator 10-29-2013 07:03 PM
02:06 PM ET (US)
I'd really like to learn something about this. A while back I wrote a paper for the IEEE (On page(s): 232-236 of ISBN: 0-7803-0044-0) on limits of a Turing machine. I was interested in what, if any, human mental or spiritual processes are forever beyond it. (By the way, I would like anything I say to be taken as a question, really.)

I am convinced that there are realms of human ability that FOREVER transcend Turing machines. (Note that a Turing machine is essentially a modern digital computer with infinite memory. I've never heard talk of the speed of a Turing machine so I don't speed increase to be an essential change in the machine.) Turing machines are incredible and have a large set of capabilities. I suspect, like the surface of a sphere, though, this set is unbounded but finite.

An essential and very common human capability that, I think, is one that lies beyond the Turing machine. A Turing machine must be programmed and started. I think our every day acts of will, attention, intention and initiation are forever beyond a Turing machine with no human operator. I know John Searle has provided an argument that purports to show that we are, or could be, just meat machines, electrochemical entities. Trouble is that we NEVER can really act as if that's so. We all believe that we "could have taken the other road." We seem to ourselves to be First Causes. This a Turing machine can never be. Besides, if it's all just a machine with no ghost, how do we have the unmitigated gall to "hold someone accountable?" He is just a machine. He literally couldn't do otherwise.

Complexity. Some people believe that once computers become complex enough, they will start to think like humans. Have these people ever used a Windows(TM) machine? Our experience is that increased complexity just provides more ways a computer can crash.

Dualism rules. (Hear that Gay?) We are not machines with ghosts. A wiser fella than I has said that we are souls operating our meat machines for our short time on the stage.
12:07 PM ET (US)
YES BOIS AND GALS, 'freedom fighter' said what im thinking, pretty much to the word, ive got a bit of a knowledge and learning addiction, only if its worth learning of course (Things worth learning are pretty much everything) :)
neoteric.netPerson was signed in when posted
07:09 PM ET (US)
Here is a blog essay about the election of Barak Obama that touches upon many of the Neoteric themes: http://stevenmeloan.blogspot.com/2009/01/thoughts-on-obama.html
Deleted by topic administrator 01-19-2009 07:11 PM
04:01 PM ET (US)
Lets live there...between thoughts...in the smiles we share, and quiet stares, as we reflect on the lightness of being.

The universe is the macrocosm, and we (the organic reality of light) are the microcosm.

If you need one thought to meditate on, this connects all - even the un-understandable.
Being, in awe, really is the most energy efficient way to exist.

With Love - Tarah
The Gay Species
03:53 PM ET (US)
This site claims: "Recognizing our duality of body and spirit is essential for human evolution."

That anyone in the 21st century would continue to defend Cartesian dualism after the brilliant insights of philosophy in the 20th century proving a naturalistic monism suggests Noetics is retrogressive.

Much of what is proffered as belief is just that -- Dianetics in yet another form. I would kindly suggest that Noetics make contact with the writings of Alfred North Whitehead, Gilbert Ryle, and John Searle (to name but three) who knocked the Ghost in the Machine theory out of the ballpark.
Silas Leger
05:48 PM ET (US)

After almost fully reviewing the neoteric website I was compelled to email them to find out where they are based, or if its a global internet thing. Anyway - I think they are on the right track. Duality between the animal portion of ourselves and and the human portion of ourselves is where the struggle for a better consciousness is weighed. Its mindless to act like animals and thus easier - its the defualt lowest option that's as the neoteric site put it - hardwired: No journey in to the higher mind is needed. But the benefits of a cooperative and harmonistic situation are lost, as harmony and cooperation are not hard-wired they require that spiritual elevation (going up requires work). So we have what we have today - a bunch of lazy fools who stay animal because it feels good to serve self. Okay - Whatever. Then you have the few that do the harmony seeking (elevation out of the animal mind and into the human mind) and they serve as an example of what we can all have - a better life that's kinda far away from self service.

Its good to remember the levels of existance. The Bible and all spiritual teaching point the way, but the elevator is operated by you, so where you going today - self service a coulpe of floors down or cooperation and harmony a discreet level up into the real realm of human anything and pushing aside of animal everything. Taken into account what you want and then find out how its really selfish and no good and then run away from it.

Aloha from Honolulu
Silas Leger
05:48 PM ET (US)
Sunset from Atop Tantalus Mountain Above Honolulu Town
03:47 PM ET (US)
My reactions? WELL WRITTEN / WELL THOUGHT.... but then, "thinking" of spirituality is NOT Spirituality (which is an EVENT)! But anything... ANYTHING to get people out of their BOXES, right? Sufism is my preferred technique — symbolized by a heart with wings. But then, what has it done for the Muslims... not much it seems! Maybe Neotericism will turn the computer nerds off coffee? May all Beings be Happy.
OneSpiritPerson was signed in when posted
04:37 AM ET (US)
Your experiences parallel my own. I do lucid dreaming, ciontrolling my dreams and astral? project - i.e., travel via my dream states.

Contact me at spirit@hawaii.rr.com
Let's talk.
Ed F. G. Lesperance
04:28 AM ET (US)
Jesus of Nazereth

Catholic (i.e. universal Christian Church.) Doctrine
Priests shall be called "Father."

Saul of Tarsus realized a Universal message early:
"If you can't beat them, join them."

He corrupted the message of Jesus, and established a church that was a lie.
Read the synoptic gospels,
then read all of Paul's writings.

Paul's teachings are often in accord with Jesus, but on the important things, he diverges, and has corrupted Christianity forever.

If I told you, you wouldn't believe it. You must find it for yourself, if you can.
If you can't, then you are too far programmed, and I can't help you.

I am using the free version of SPAMfighter.
We are a community of 5.5 million users fighting spam.
SPAMfighter has removed 12563 of my spam emails to date.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

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< replied-to message removed by QT >
jim sitterly
01:59 PM ET (US)
Words, words, words.
Blah, blah, blah.
This is all a fancy glob of nothing:
the same old rehashed over simplified and nonpoetic paltry attempt at a supposed explanation of why the sacred institutions have failed.
If you have not, then do so and then try to tell me that religion has failed.
This CATHEDRAL as well NORTE DAME and many others are a profoundly beautiful manmade places of deep meditation and prayer.
A grand place of prayer and spiritual rebirth is awe inspiring and truly uplifting to the human spirit.
Your myopic and negatively motivated hate speech towards the religious institutions to which you have wrongfully turned your back , or even worse case, perhaps were never introduced to in a positive manner as a child by your negligent parents, exposes your failure of experiencing the true wonder therein attainable.
Get thee to a church, kneel down, and say a prayer.
Thank GOD for what you are and for the universe that he created for you to contemplate.
Do this and call me in the morning.
Love, Jim Sitterly, DMA
10:22 AM ET (US)
Science and spirituality are basically the same thing in different form.
One deals primarily with denser states of energy.
The latter deals primarily with low density forms of energy, which we get to experience during meditation etc.
The thing about the latter is , that it is an individual journey.
And just as in science, unless an individual isn't willing to learn the truths out there, he wont be learning anything at all.
Just as in science, a particular set of conditions like a vegetarian diet, discipline < mental and physical > , meditation, breathing techniques etc aids in discovering this energy hidden in our bodies , and thus our worlds.
And as is the case in science, just like the way you would learn from a high end professor who is doing research in an area, you learn a lot from the words of enlightened masters or from themselves.
One of them is Paramahansa Nityananda... Others would be Paramahansa Yogananda, Confucious, Lao Tzu , OSHO,Zen masters, Jesus Christ, Buddha, Siva Baba, HamsaYogi ... and many others.
My experience in research in this area would include Hindu scriptures like Vedas, Upanishads, Bhagawath gita, Ashtavakra Gita, principles of tantra and things like that.
The funny thing is that, most of the scriptures seem to claim that all of us are indeed one. and our egos tend to limit the grandiose reality that we are.
We tend to get stuck in one area of the mind, which would be just the conscious , and classify the rest of the mind as sub conscious only, without even realizing the existence of sub sub conscious < where the seeds of our sub conscious impressions or desires generate > , sub super conscious < where intuitions come from , and mind you even Einstein says that intuition is the highest thing that could happen to a scientist > and the super conscious mind < which is the state of godhead > .
I guess its time that we really took on this journey of spirituality scientifically, by exploring like a scientist within, and base all our theories based on our experiences alone, and validate that with experiences of others, and that in the scriptures.
Honesty as in any research should reveal you the ultimate grandiose in this universe, instead of clinging on to the externalities of mind which are good or bad.
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