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Relevant Ramblings - PART 3View comments on this item Add your comment on this item1

Larry Victor 8/11/2005




            Too much false myth propagates re these "sacred" processes.  Add your comment on this item3

            Doing and Experiencing are not always accompanied by relevant learning - indeed most of the time there is no relevant learning involved.  Add your comment on this item4

            There are learning-to-learn competencies required for Learning-By-Doing (LBD) and Learning-Through- Experience (LTE) - which I will collapse into TEL for (Task-Experiential-Learning). Inventing nu language on the fly! We inherit a great amount of this, which enables us to learn to navigate physical space, socialize and communicate via languages. By age 5 we have earned the equivalent of 10 PhDs.  Add your comment on this item5


            But, for many other learning objectives, we must LEARN the learning-to-learn competencies. And we differ genetically in our propensity for ease of learning-to-learn-to-learn. Add your comment on this item6


            I lack auditory imagery - I can't replay sounds (speech or music) in my inner mind. This makes learning second languages very, very difficult. I often wonder if it also effected learning my one language (English) and even in using it these 70 years. I also am poor in auditory discrimination. Some of this can be trained, but if you lack a right arm you can't learn to throw a baseball with your right arm. Add your comment on this item7


            There is the old tale of a 30 year veteran teacher lording it over a novice teacher. The novice comments: "you don't have 30 years of teaching experience, you have only one year repeated 30 times". Add your comment on this item8


            Often, what we learn via TEL is far from optimum, sometimes dangerous, and often a block for continued learning.  Add your comment on this item9

            Unfortunately, most people also never become proficient in Learning-by-Instruction. What they gain via adaptation to survive schooling is often very limiting.  Add your comment on this item10

            Although there has always been talk among educators about "learning-to-learn" and "learning-to-learn-to-learn", very little is done about it in either formal or informal educational settings. Add your comment on this item11


            TEL can be powerful - when done right. What research literature exists relevant to this issue? Add your comment on this item12

            Much of the learning in NUEDU (or NES) will occur during the performance of scripts for project tasks. But, unlike normal TEL, what will be learned will be MORE than what is involved in learning how to perform the task. Add your comment on this item13


            Task performance is very important as they contribute to the functioning of NUEDU; but additional opportunities for learning is embedded in the scripts and in the content of the task.  Add your comment on this item14

            For example, the task may be to edit a document or compose formative evaluation probes for a document. But, the person will also be learning the content of the document.

            Another example, the performance of a script may involve the person learning techniques in using tools; and in learning the techniques they may also be learning more about the tools than are required for the specific task performance. They may be learning more general and useful knowledge about "tools & techniques". Add your comment on this item15


            An old model of this was Skinner's Programmed Learning. Content for later questions was embedded in the text of earlier questions. Formats need variation to counter boredom. An elaborate systemic instructional technology evolved. Add your comment on this item16


            Can we be explicit on tapping into INCIDENTAL LEARNING? Add your comment on this item17


            THE LQE PARADOX - ANDROGOGY & "ADULT EDUCATION" Add your comment on this item18


            Educators have coined the term "androgogy" for the learning and educating of adults, restricting "pedagogy" for the learning and educating of children. Add your comment on this item19


            Distinction from Yale University Library:

            "For centuries the most commonly accepted approach towards teaching and learning was pedagogical in nature. The Greek roots of the word pedagogy are ped or child, plus agogos which means to lead. A literal interpretation would be to lead a child. By definition pedagogy is the art, science or profession of teaching. This is the design most of us are familiar with as we recall our own educational experiences as young children and young adults. Add your comment on this item20

            Andragogy, on the other hand refers to the art or science of helping adults learn. The Greek roots of this term, andro meaning man -or adult-and agogos to lead, literally means to lead a man or adult. This initial distinction between these two words and their approaches to learning might suggest a dichotomy of strategies. However, while it is true that adults have learning needs which differ from children and young adults, it is also true that children and adults learn more effectively when andragogical methods are integrated into their educational milieu. Add your comment on this item21

            It is again true that in some situations, when learners of any age encounter new territory of content or are confronted by a new technology, they may be truly dependent upon didactic instruction. It is important to keep in mind that these two approaches be viewed not antithetical to each other but parallel. Perhaps a newer term like pandragogy might allow both methodologies to be viewed along a continuum of teaching-learning approaches." Add your comment on this item22


            This distinction has resulted in most educational programs for "adults" enabling the learner to have more "say" in what they learn. However, most programs in androgogy depend heavy on instruction.  Add your comment on this item23

            The curriculum choices may be provided by the educational service for adults, but it is based on the superficial choices adults make about what new learning they would desire. Add your comment on this item24


            LQE is founded on the principle of LEARNER OWNERSHIP of the educational systems that service the learner.  Add your comment on this item25

            Learners are essential components of educational systems, not an external population to be served by institutions whose members are educators and educational administrators and staff - but NOT learners (unless they also happen to be employed as aides, etc.).  Add your comment on this item26

            But, what is essential in the LQE perspective is not to view the LEARNER in LQE as the "student" in traditional educational setting.  Add your comment on this item27

            In LQE, the learner learns about their responsibility as learner/educator and is SEAFed in acquiring the requisite competencies.  Add your comment on this item28

            Instructional practices can exist in LQE, but they are elected to by the learner as the best mode for that learning objective.  Add your comment on this item29

            In LQE, curricula and practices emerge from the informed and competent needs of the learner/educator. Add your comment on this item30


            However, most adults invited to participate in LQE will have the same prior conditioning as "students", as well as expecting to choose their learning objectives.  Add your comment on this item31

            They are "out of school" and don't want to be told "what to do". Thus, they initially lack the perspectives and competencies to function well as learner/educators.  Add your comment on this item32

            Acquiring these perspectives and competencies should be the initial learning objectives of adults participating in LQE education.  Add your comment on this item33

            Yet, when they begin with LQE they, as yet, don't have these perspectives and practices.  Add your comment on this item34

            The paradox is how to attract adults to a potential LQE educational system, but where their initial and often superficial choices of learning objectives must be carefully rebuffed.  Add your comment on this item35

            This is a challenge that cannot be ducked. Add your comment on this item36


            I actually don't feel that this is a major problem. I believe that a curricula or relevant learning objectives (consistent with LQE and the objectives of a NU Educational Service (NES) can, with proper PRSOS attract and engage many adult learners. Performing to scripts (a subtle mode of instruction) will assist. Presenting the learning objectives as more than gaining information will also assist. Learner participation will be immediately evident in the feedback participation required and in the degree of creative freedom involved in the performance of many scripts. It is possible to even take the traditional choices of learning objectives by adults and construct them to lead into more relevant learning objectives. Add your comment on this item37


            THE AWESOME UNUSED RESOURCES RE LEARNING AND EDUCATING Add your comment on this item38


            Last night I spent a few hours in Google searching on various terms associated with learning and education.  Add your comment on this item39

            I was overwhelmed by the quantity, diversity, and quality of the work done over the decades and reports.  Add your comment on this item40

            Depending on the terms used in searching Google spews up virtually non overlapping sets of links. For example human performance technology appears to be a category distinct from educational technology.  Add your comment on this item41

            The structure of the information is fractal -- you can probe down to deeper and deeper levels of detail.  Add your comment on this item42


            A superficial impression: there was very little authored after 2000 - which may or may not be significant. The exception would, of course be recent discourse on assessment and evaluation related to the No Child Left Behind catastrophe. Add your comment on this item43


            I was excited to see many names I had been familiar with during my explicit work on curriculum design in the 1960 and 70s. Add your comment on this item44


            What stand out clearly is how little of this information is used in the practice of education -- from its best to its worst.  Add your comment on this item45

            Each new theory of learning or of instruction lead to temporary experimental ventures. Watered down and warped versions may persist in some institutions.  Add your comment on this item46

            Also, it appears that although the researchers and educational architects openly participated in these experimental ventures - I found no record of their attempts to effectively share their ideas with decision makers or the general public interested in learning and education. Add your comment on this item47


            Although there were small efforts towards SEAFing learning, the primary emphasis was on teaching, instruction, and the management of educational institutions. And even the most adventurous for SEAFing learning, it was done in the larger context of the instructional paradigm. Add your comment on this item48


            I was pushed to consider my own "expertise" in this domain -- as David credits me with in his exec summary. My claim is for my attempt to approach comprehensive IGNORANCE of the whole domain.  Add your comment on this item49

            Sprinkled among this ignorance are pockets of specialized knowledge and knowhow.  Add your comment on this item50

            I feel personally ill equipped to "design" the curriculum, content, and practices for NES (Nu Educational Services). Yet, who else is more competent, in lieu of my ignorance?View comments on this item Add your comment on this item51


            Much of the information in these resources is useful -- although it may require re-interpretation in different contexts. Many of the ideas were generated before we had the power of computers and cyberspace. eSCIENCE-style projects could emerge in NES -- once it achieved threshold. Add your comment on this item52

            This issue is that the task of creating a truly viable NUEDU requires a distributed network of collaborating learner/educators. Over time, with this labor of billions of humans GALDEEing, ALL the relevant details can be incorporated. The practical issue is how to start with a finite, practical and limited NES. Add your comment on this item53


            That I cannot at this moment see a clear and concrete route to creating a viable NES does not deter me at all. It simply means that this effort will require collaboration. Add your comment on this item54


            SOME USEFUL LINKS, AMOUNG THOUSANDS, RELATED TO NESView comments on this item Add your comment on this item55


            LEARNING THEORIES: http://www.emtech.net/learning_theories.htm ResourceView comments on this item Add your comment on this item56

            EDUCATORS REFERENCE DESK: http://www.eduref.org/ ResourceView comments on this item Add your comment on this item57

            ONLINE EDUCATION AVAILABLE: http://www.online-education.net/ ResourceView comments on this item Add your comment on this item58

            Online College Education: http://www.accredited-online-college-education.org/ ResourceView comments on this item Add your comment on this item59

            WorldWideLearn Directory of Online Education: http://www.worldwidelearn.com/ ResourceView comments on this item Add your comment on this item60

            Lifelong Education & International Development (Univ of London): http://ioewebserver.ioe.ac.uk/ioe/cms/get.asp?cid=54 ResourceView comments on this item Add your comment on this item61

            SCAFFOLDING WEBSITE: http://condor.admin.ccny.cuny.edu/~group4/ ResourceView comments on this item Add your comment on this item62

            Education Online for Computer: http://www.educationonlineforcomputers.com/ Resource and CoursesView comments on this item Add your comment on this item63

            World Association for Online Education: http://www.waoe.org/ OrganizationView comments on this item Add your comment on this item64


            Open Access Journals in the Field of Education: http://aera-cr.asu.edu/links.html JournalView comments on this item Add your comment on this item65

            Online Journal of Distance Learning Administration (2005): http://www.westga.edu/%7Edistance/ojdla/summer82/summer82.htm JournalView comments on this item Add your comment on this item66

            INNOVATE: Journal of Online Education (2005): http://www.innovateonline.info/index.php? JournalView comments on this item Add your comment on this item67

            The Chronicle of Higher Education, Information Technology: http://chronicle.com/distance/ JournalView comments on this item Add your comment on this item68

            Learners Online: http://www.learnersonline.com/ JournalView comments on this item Add your comment on this item69

            Journal of Educational Technology and Society (2005): http://www.ifets.info/ JournalView comments on this item Add your comment on this item70


            ONLINE COURSE MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS: http://www.edutools.info/course/ Academic Commercial Packages ComparisonView comments on this item Add your comment on this item71

            Learning WebCT Resources: http://www.ibritt.com/resources/webct.htm Academic Commercial PackageView comments on this item Add your comment on this item72

            BLACKBOARD: http://www.blackboard.com/us/index.aspx Academic Commercial PackageView comments on this item Add your comment on this item73

            QUESTIONMARK: http://www.questionmark.com/us/home.htm Academic Commercial PackageView comments on this item Add your comment on this item74


            Educational Technology and the 'Colonisation' of Academic Work (1987): http://www.arasite.org/nedtbsa2.htm ArticleView comments on this item Add your comment on this item75

            Developing interactive multimedia courseware and networks (1992): http://www.aset.org.au/confs/iims/1992/romiszowski1.html ArticleView comments on this item Add your comment on this item76

            Andragogically based Virtual Learning Environments (2000): http://www.subtech.warwick.ac.uk/programme/3_papers/granthamfull/ ArticleView comments on this item Add your comment on this item77

            Theories of Learning and Instruction: http://www.columbia.edu/~fs184/Spring/theories.html ArticleView comments on this item Add your comment on this item78

            Patterns in Authoring of Adaptive Educational Hypermedia: A Taxonomy of Learning Styles (2005) http://www.ifets.info/journals/8_3/8.pdf ArticleView comments on this item Add your comment on this item79


            MATHETICS & Thomas F. Gilbert Add your comment on this item80


            My Google adventure was motivated by my not finding an old document given to me during my early days teaching at Pima College by a special consultant to the president. It has always stuck with me as an important technique, and quite amenable for learning scripts. I learned a bit more on my search, but could not find the document I searched for, which had been authored in 1962. Gilbert appears to have been a student of Skinner, and quite famous for his knowledge and research in the domain of Human Performance Technology. Add your comment on this item81


            Although using the term "mathetics" earlier, it appears that Seymour Papert of MIT chose to redefine the term in 1993 in "The Children's Machine: Rethinking School in the Age of the Computer". Mathetics is to learning as pedagogy is to teaching - so mathetics is the art of learning. The term appears to have an even more ancient history: Add your comment on this item82


            'Mathetics' is the science of learning, which first was written down by Johan Amos Comenius (1592-1670). He understood 'Mathetica' as the opposite of 'Didactics', the science of teaching. Today its topic is the relation between human beings and information. It is involved in the selection of subject contents under the guideline for teaching aims. Mathetics considers and uses findings of current interest from pedagogical psychology, neurophysiology (neurodidactics) and technology of information. Add your comment on this item83

            "We then distinguish micro-mathetics and macro-mathetics: the former focuses on what happens in a classroom, a home, and individual learning situation. The latter focuses on such questions as how to think about the development of the learning environment of a country or of the entire planet." Add your comment on this item84


            What I remember of significance from the original paper by Gilbert, was what may be called the technique of "backward chaining". Add your comment on this item85


            Gilbert was concerned with the retraining of workers. He distinguished between "acquirements" and "accomplishments".  Add your comment on this item86

            Acquirements were basic skills already possessed by the workers.  Add your comment on this item87

            Accomplishments were specific patterns of combinations of existing acquirements.  Add your comment on this item88

            Gilbert pointed out that most retraining programs devote most of their time rehashing the acquirements (already) possessed and then quickly and inadequately instruct them on the performance of new accomplishments. This is because they are stuck on "forward chaining" -- starting from the basics (acquirements) and proceeding to more complex topics (accomplishments).  Add your comment on this item89


            Backward chaining reversed the process.  Add your comment on this item90

            The worker for retraining is first presented with a demonstration of the full accomplishment, but with the last step missing.  Add your comment on this item91

            They would provide that last step, because it was a known acquirement.  Add your comment on this item92

            The process repeats, each time the learner completes the whole activity, adding more and more acquirements; until eventually they have mastered the whole accomplishment.  Add your comment on this item93

            The exemplar was the teaching of long division by backward chaining. Add your comment on this item94


            I was interested in this as a possible technique in instructing new accomplishments in using Intelligent Tools, learning upgrades and learning new features.  Add your comment on this item95

            Typical tutorials for learning to use software are overly heavy on already known acquirements and then skimp or even ignore useful accomplishments.  Add your comment on this item96

            This applies also to manuals and books on using software.  Add your comment on this item97

            This might have been a technique for L2L2UIT. Add your comment on this item98


            Backward Chaining may also be a technique for script performance.  Add your comment on this item99

            We start by drafting the final report, where we state things as if they have been done and objectives accomplished.  Add your comment on this item100

            Then we back up and perform what we report, continuing to modify the report until the report is accurate on what actually happened and was accomplished.View comments on this item Add your comment on this item101