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TOPIC:

ThreadsML???

Introduction
This is a continuation of a discussion about ThreadsML started over a year ago. Marc Canter resurrected it with an introductory email and has been pushing it along since then.
 
Reference links:
ThreadsML.org
Early definitive statement in the older discussion
An early JOHO article by David Weinberger
(not accepting new messages)
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  Messages 284-281 deleted by topic administrator between 07-10-2008 08:24 AM and 04-03-2005 08:15 PM
280
Danny Ayers
06-26-2003
04:32 AM ET (US)
> Sorry I haven't posted back on this yet. I'm taking a few days
> off in celebration of the release of QT Pro
> (http://www.quicktopic.com/gopro). I'll be back soon;

Congratulations!

Cheers,
Danny.

PS. I recommend traveller's rehydration powders for hangovers ;-)
279
Steve YostPerson was signed in when posted
06-25-2003
03:22 PM ET (US)
I should also mention that the just-announced QuickThread (http://www.quicktopic.com/cgi-bin/quickthr...l=/em/H/mXbfHC2srY3) serves as a good example of what *could* be accomplished natively by email clients and *any* web board/mailing list if they both supported ThreadsML.

As it is, you forward your batch of emails to new@quicktopic.com and we automatically create a QuickTopic forum from them.
278
Steve YostPerson was signed in when posted
06-25-2003
03:18 PM ET (US)
Sorry I haven't posted back on this yet. I'm taking a few days off in celebration of the release of QT Pro (http://www.quicktopic.com/gopro). I'll be back soon; Sam Ruby's work sounds interesting.

-Steve
277
Marc Canter
06-24-2003
05:39 PM ET (US)
Here here - these are good times for open standards.

My own personal needs revolve around getting a face or image associated with a channel into the spec - so aggregators can give a visual clue to folks - who's channel it is.

Images could also get formerly associated with posts as well - though this is more problematic. Mainly because we can standardize on 32x32 or 48x48 for identifier images - while content images need to be a wide range of sizes and shapes.....

Anyway back to the relationships between PIE and ThreadsML.

How 'bout one of you - go and post something about 'our' schema - and extend a collaborative effort to Sam and his efforts?

- Marc

< replied-to message removed by QT >
276
Danny Ayers
06-24-2003
05:10 PM ET (US)
In case anyone in RSS-land hadn't noticed, Sam Ruby's set up a Wiki to work on a conceptual model of a (web)log. Quite a mixed bag of luminaries have asserted their support. This may lead to a successor to RSS that everyone can agree on (working title is 'Pie' as in 'easy-as'), or it may just be an interesting exercise in analysis and group dynamics. Either way it's significant to the ThreadsML initiative - if something does come out of it, ThreadsML needs to be able to operate with it from day 1. The analysis will be worth watching as it certainly treads into ThreadSpace, we could learn here. I have plenty of personal reservations, but I've been reading Sam's blog long enough to trust his approach (smart guy too), and I think this is almost certainly a (rare) case of it being better to influence things from within.

Sam's trying to address one issue at a time on his blog (just started with the about/link/guid/URI stuff) :

http://www.intertwingly.net/blog/

The Wiki's at :

http://www.intertwingly.net/wiki/pie/

Particularly significant to ThreadsML is the 'Related' stuff - "An Entry exists in an environment of Web Pages, Weblogs, other Entries, Channels, Threads, etc. If we want to fully model Entry, Entry should know how it relates the environment." :

http://www.intertwingly.net/wiki/pie/Related

Cheers,
Danny.
275
Marc CanterPerson was signed in when posted
06-15-2003
02:24 PM ET (US)
Howdy folks. Happy Father's Day.

Check this out:
http://radio.weblogs.com/0122611/outlines/Conversation.html

It's a WebOutliner doc - saved off as a read-only form - which maps out how WebOutliher would edit ThreadsML files. Re-entrant conversations.

There's also instructions in here - for adding your own input into this conversation. Sorry it's not ThreadsML compliant - yet. But you'll get the idea of how exciting this is.
Edited 06-15-2003 02:25 PM
274
Marc Canter
06-14-2003
04:26 PM ET (US)
Yes - there is some overlap - but also with our People's DNS efforts - as well.

Basically you've speced out a cool new tool.

We put that into the category of "go for it - dude!" We support 100%.
- Marc

< replied-to message removed by QT >
273
David H. Deans
06-14-2003
03:09 PM ET (US)
Hello folks, Ben Hammersley sent me over here.

I've posted a brief description of what I refer to as a "GypsyBlogger" application, and associated "Blogger Caravans" here http://www.erablog.net/blogs/dhdeans/

Note, the "trackbacks" link leads to further closely associated comments on other sites. At the AlwaysOn site, be sure to page down to the "member comments" section, and that's where I reference my dialogue with Ben.

If there's a good parallel with your ThreadsML project, then let me know. If not, please excuse this interuption.
272
Steve YostPerson was signed in when posted
06-11-2003
11:24 AM ET (US)
Off topic: I've put this topic into QuickTopic Pro mode (sneak preview for you all). That's visible to participants in two ways: you can upload pictures, and there's a topic introduction at the top of the page. (I could customize the look too, but will defer that for now). I'm doing a beta soon, so you may soon see other QuickTopic forums with the QuickTopic Pro logo at the top.

If you'd like to participate in the beta, let me know at syost@quicktopic.com.

Excuse the thread interruption.
271
Marc Canter
06-10-2003
03:59 PM ET (US)
Yes and thank you VERY MUCH for your work on said specs.

:-)

< replied-to message removed by QT >
270
Danny Ayers
06-10-2003
03:36 PM ET (US)
hehe

The URI http://purl.org/threads has been confirmed as ours, with myself and Steve as maintainers.
At the moment, as a URL it will/should redirect to threadsml.org (doesn't seem to have gone through the system yet). Eventually I suppose it should resolve to the spec(s).



< replied-to message removed by QT >
269
Marc Canter
06-10-2003
01:09 PM ET (US)
And I'd be honored - in the true spirit of chaordic principles - to welcome Steve and Danny as our 'maintainers'.

I just hope they don't evolve into 'containers'.

Or even worse - the dreaded - 'sustainer'.

Maybe now - the humble Mr. Hammersley can take that spec, read it and spit out some more details for our web site.

- Marc

< replied-to message removed by QT >
268
Steve Yost
06-10-2003
08:05 AM ET (US)
Excellent, Danny. I'll be happy to be listed as maintainer. I just registered at purl.org. Username is steve-yost.
> once they've confirmed it would be good to add another person as
> another maintainer - Steve? You'd just have to register at
> purl.org, if you haven't already.
267
Danny Ayers
06-10-2003
05:19 AM ET (US)
Hi folks,

I've updated the sample in the strawman vocabulary [1] on the Wiki following Steve's suggestions (I'd got the FOAF way out), also tweaked it (e.g. inserted the missing RDF namespace ;-) so it's now valid RDF according to the W3C's validator [2].

I've submitted a request at purl.org to use the obvious namespace:
http://purl.org/threads

once they've confirmed it would be good to add another person as another maintainer - Steve? You'd just have to register at purl.org, if you haven't already.

I've still not got any further with the person-grouping stuff (I was meant to be writing an article about RDF grouping last week too), but that's very much on my list for the next couple of days.

Cheers,
Danny.

[1] http://www.quicktopic.com/cgi-bin/thwiki.pl?ThreadsVocabulary [2] http://www.w3.org/RDF/Validator/
266
Steve Yost
06-08-2003
06:27 PM ET (US)
Rick Thomas wrote:
> ...This suggests that a hierarchy is not an adequate model.

True, and fortunately Danny Ayers' recent proposal does allow for multiple parents. See http://www.quicktopic.com/cgi-bin/thwiki.pl?ThreadsVocabulary
265
Deleted by author 06-08-2003 04:23 PM
264
Danny Ayers
06-03-2003
12:18 PM ET (US)
Whoops!
You're quite right.

For some, e.g.

  <foaf:Person foaf:name="Lena">

I think this would be valid as an alternative, but like you suggest for the readers benefit it'll be better as

  <foaf:Person>
  <foaf:name>Lena</foaf:name>
...
  </foaf:Person>

This one :

   <foaf:email rdf:resource="lena@twounlimited.com" />

I believe is simply *wrong* - the resource should be a URI, so again the literal format above is better (not wrong!).

That's what comes from not consulting the manual...

Cheers,
Danny.


< replied-to message removed by QT >
263
Steve Yost
06-03-2003
12:01 PM ET (US)
Danny wrote:
> Attributes? I've just looked at my FOAF and it starts like this
> :
> <foaf:Person>
> <foaf:name>Daniel Ayers</foaf:name>
> <foaf:title>Mr</foaf:title>
> <foaf:firstName>Danny</foaf:firstName>
> ...
>
> So the values all seem to be literal text (if anything, I'd have
> though the nesting would have caused problems).
>
Ah. Should we change the wiki to match that then? Or am I mis-reading it?
As I realized, since dc:contributor is in the <items> element, RSS readers are not reading dc:contributor now, so it's really not an issue. But yes, we can hope they'll accomadate the FOAF if it's there. I'd be more confident if FOAF wasn't just "the best choice at the moment". So I'd want to make FOAF optional for dc:contributor, with plain text an alternate. Thoughts?
262
Danny Ayers
06-03-2003
07:58 AM ET (US)
> Actually, thinking about Danny's proposal a little more, I'm
> confusing the dc:contributor element with the dc:creator element
> in the individual post. The dc:contributor item should be
> considered optional -- shouldn't we specify which elements are
> required and which are optional? And it won't break RSS readers.

That sounds very reasonable. Feel free to edit the Wiki.
Personally I'd probably go for making the minimum of the elements mandatory, with the idea that a little data is better than none at all.

Cheers,
Danny.
261
Danny Ayers
06-03-2003
07:58 AM ET (US)
> I'd like to try implementing the strawman proposal Danny
> proposed at
> http://www.quicktopic.com/cgi-bin/thwiki.pl?ThreadsVocabulary,

cool!

> but I haven't heard back about the usage of foaf for the
> dc:contributor element.

Looking into it, I'll get back to you, but for now at least use your best guess.

> My concern is that the foaf element will break existing RSS
> readers, which at best will ignore tags that it doesn't
> recognize, and therefore simply not find anything in the
> dc:contributor element, since all of foaf's data seems to be
> represented as XML attributes rather than text elements (or is
> there an alternative?). If that's the case, I must ask for an
> alternative or eliminate the foaf element.

Attributes? I've just looked at my FOAF and it starts like this :
<foaf:Person>
<foaf:name>Daniel Ayers</foaf:name>
<foaf:title>Mr</foaf:title>
<foaf:firstName>Danny</foaf:firstName>
...

So the values all seem to be literal text (if anything, I'd have though the nesting would have caused problems).

I think we should consider it a bonus if current RSS readers can view the data, rather than a requirement. I reckon that if the data is available in a systematic format, then the tool builders will adjust accordingly. We certainly need a way of identifying the people, and FOAF looks the best choice at the moment.

Cheers,
Danny.
260
Steve YostPerson was signed in when posted
06-02-2003
11:18 PM ET (US)
Actually, thinking about Danny's proposal a little more, I'm confusing the dc:contributor element with the dc:creator element in the individual post. The dc:contributor item should be considered optional -- shouldn't we specify which elements are required and which are optional? And it won't break RSS readers.
^     All messages            260-284 of 284  235-259 >>