Adam in Poland  02-10-2003
09:51 AM ET (US)
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It's more than just "many people set their Opera browser to identify itself as IE" - that's the *default*. In other words, all that mkelley sees in his stats are those who have actually delved into the preferences to change the identifier string to Opera.
Assume that's 20% of Opera users and mkelley's stats suggest 5% of his visitors use Opera. Assume it's 5% and that's 20% Opera users...
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copperas 02-08-2003
04:57 PM ET (US)
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Safari isn't yet allowing users to easily make their browsers identify as anything but Safari. I use Opera and identify as MSIE because, as someone said earlier, alot of websites don't want to serve pages to anything but MSIE, even though Opera cand handle them. I had to download a specific program on my mac to make Safari identify as MSIE, I'm sure they'll change that eventually. I think there are more Opera users than statistics show.
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mkelley 02-07-2003
05:02 PM ET (US)
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Little E, you meant larger didn't you? My point is, I seriously doubt that Opera is hitting more than Netscape on my pages. I also have one person visiting using WebTV, should I have to code for them too? Even if it's probably only one person.
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Tiny Elvis 02-07-2003
12:41 PM ET (US)
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mkelley, many people set their Opera browser to identify itself as IE because many pages will complain if a non IE browser hits them. So your Opera number is likely smaller than it actually is.
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Dave Hemming 02-07-2003
10:12 AM ET (US)
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I use Opera (although I'm using Phoenix to post this) and I've found that Hotmail will occasionally refuse to serve the page I've requested - it just times out. I try 2 or 3 times with the same result. I change my preference to identify my browser as IE5 and magically the server has no problem sending the page.
I'm quite ready to believe there's a little browser sabotage going on.
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mkelley 02-07-2003
09:16 AM ET (US)
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I don't know if I would even care if Opera displayed properly. I have about 8% of my visitors using Netscape/Mozilla and about .9% using Opera. Hell, Safari is pulling in 1.3%, and it's been out for less than 2 months.
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rajbot 02-07-2003
01:42 AM ET (US)
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FChess: well, that slashdot story you link to talks about an article on the Register, which links to a site on people.opera.com which redirects to the deb.opera.com site you were wondering about.
Here is a comment from that slashdot story describing the problem:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=53008&cid=5243652
Actually I spoke too soon and am going to take back what I said. I loaded up the page in Opera 6.0 and the margin -30 is supposed to fix a bug in Opera 6.0's rendering of lists. In fact, it's the very same problem I ran into while designing some webpages a few weeks ago that annoyed me to no end. Basically, Opera 6.0 indents list items by about 30 pixels to the right, unlike other browsers. Thus that -30 value is there to correct that problem. Opera 7.0 doesn't exhibit that tabbing effect (thus consistant with the latest IE and Mozilla browsers). Apparently MSN is serving Opera 7.0 the same CSS sheet as Opera 6.0 even though 7.0 works best when it's served the same style sheet as IE. Thus, saying that this problem is browser sabotage is too strong of an accusation.
A response to that comment:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=53008&cid=5245439
Please mod the parent up if you have any points. As much as I enjoy the discussion that bashes MS, this is the most insightful/informative post that I have seen.
And, not to defend MS or anything... but how come EVEN THE OPERA.COM SITE NEGLECTS TO MENTION THAT OPERA6.0 HAD A +30 BUG WHEN RENDERING CSS SHEETS?? Who is sabotaging who here?!?
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FChess 02-07-2003
12:57 AM ET (US)
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Just wondering: the BoingBoing link goes to deb.opera.com; does anyone where that URL comes from? The Opera homepage links to this URL instead:
http://my.opera.com/dev/discussion/openweb/20030206/
That page contains a link to a discussion on the topic, where some people offer more benign interpretations of MSN's behavior. See also the Slashdot page:
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/02/0...mode=thread&tid=109
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rajbot 02-07-2003
12:42 AM ET (US)
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This isn't true.
MSN is apparently trying to work around a bug in Opera 6.0 which shifted certain content 30 pels to the right. Opera 7 fixes this bug, but is still receiving the stylesheet that offsets things 30 pels to the left.
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