Richard Steven Hack 
05-23-2003
03:01 PM ET (US)
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Let me explain something. Federal law enforcement people exemplify the worst elements of society. You put a uniform on these low-grade assholes who can't get a regular job at MacDonalds and they become holy terrors. This is partly a result of normal human nature - anybody put in a position of authority over anyone else becomes an asshole immediately. But to give lower-class people authority over ANYBODY is just asking for trouble. I spent eight years in Federal prison and believe me, BOP correctional officers are the lowest form of life. Most of them are ex-military because they couldn't cut it even there, or wannabe regular law enforcement who couldn't make the grade there either. As an example of this, two guards beat a man to death at the Oklahoma City Federal Transfer Center - one of them was subsequently quietly removed from the BOP and was working for INS - no doubt beating Mexican immigrants...ALL Federal law enforcement are essentially assholes.
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LoveGravy 
05-22-2003
09:19 PM ET (US)
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Yeah, Nix, just you wait until you order a hamburger from one of our so called "Fast Food" places... You'll look fondly back on those swift and cheerful Customs officials...
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nixomatos 
05-22-2003
05:09 PM ET (US)
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Oh, I completly understand that being an Inmigration Officer is probably not such a nice job, and not an acurate reflection of your government's attitude. But as I said, an Inmigration Officer is often the only US official many people will meet in their lifetimes so it's a pity the encounter is not a bit more civilized, and dosen't reflect the goodness of your society
The problem with arrogance is that most Custom Officials make it seem as if it were a priviledge that a visitor is entering your country to spend money on your economy. It's not a priviledge, you are just moving from point a to point b.
And it's gonna get a lot worse, as of next year any foreigner visiting the US will need to have his fingerprints and photograph taken at any US border and immigration checkpoint. The service is slow as it is, and it's gonna get much slower.
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chico haas 
05-22-2003
05:03 PM ET (US)
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US Customs officials were never backslappers in the first place, but they're going to be highly uptight, protective and intolerant for quite a while. Where they used to be gatekeepers, they're now a frontline defense. Sucks for a lot of visitors. Meanwhile, the rest of us are still pleasant. Come on in, just don't fuck with the dog.
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LoveGravy 
05-22-2003
04:43 PM ET (US)
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Nix, It's hard to call the attitude of our Customs Agents a 100% accurate reflection of our Government's attitude. The rules are out there for entry and exit, but agents have the right to bar people for other reasons, like getting violent or threatening, as they see fit. These are NOT highly skilled PHD's, these are usually highschool grads that could either be a security guard at McDonalds or a security guard at the US border. The job simply doesn't require, or attract, the best and brightest. I agree that the government should issue a command to these agents expressing the need for better customer service, but with 9/11 their jobs have become that much harder and I don't think their pay has gone up to match, so they are a bit less "friendly" than before. Again, the government of the BVI has been great, they are constantly looking for ways to get more tourists, but their customs folks just seem annoyed that we are entering their country. I understand, noone's happy to be working a boring job that you feel underpaid for performing, so don't assume that reflects "the government's attitude" toward tourists. The animosity towards the US, in my opinion, is unavoidable. It's human nature, and the US is the most guilty of it. We cheer for the underdog and boo the favorite. We cheer for Tiger Woods when he wins his first Masters, but then villify him after he wins 10. We like cheering people and things while they are building up, but then we enjoy tearing them down too. The US, like it or not, is the wealthiest, most molitarily strong, and most influential country in the world. If we became isolationists, we'd be hated for not helping the starving countries. If we help the starving countries, we'll be hated for butting into foreign problems. Once you sit at the top, you're in a lose-lose situation. It's true for people, true for companies, and true for countries. Get involved: You're expansionist. Don't get involved: You're ignoring the world's problems. When the small nation of the BVI has rude border agents, it's because they are underdeveloped and poor. If the US has rude border agents, it's because we're arrogant. Being on top leaves you with no excuses. Having said that, I still feel we need to try harder to improve our image with the rest of the world. In the end, however, we'll still be hated by a certain % of the world. Look at Disney. What could be more friendly than Disneyland? However Disney, as a corporation and Disneyland as a "Country", has its share of detractors. Disney is a successful juggernaut gobbling up market share, aggressively fending off copywright infringements, etc and some people equate Disney with Satan. All the smiling people welcoming you to the park don't change the fact that Disney destroys any small company that gets in their way, sues any individual that tries to smear one of their character's images, etc. They are aggressive, and highly successful in their business, and people will ALWAYS hate them for it, no matter how happy their image is. Edited 05-22-2003 04:49 PM
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nixomatos 
05-22-2003
04:25 PM ET (US)
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LoveGravy, my main point is that there is a great deal of animosity directed at the US, and this animosity is not because of your movies, your citizens, your culture etc. I would guess most of the people in the world love American culture, that's why it's so successful. It's these highly hostile encounters with your government what give America a bad rap. I'm just saying that a little more understanding from the public face of your government would go a long way towards ameliorating this arrogant reputation you guys have. Edited 05-22-2003 04:26 PM
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nixomatos 
05-22-2003
04:15 PM ET (US)
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This is from the US embassy webpage in England ( http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web/visa/niv/vwp.htm) "If transiting the United States to a destination in Canada, Mexico or the adjacent islands, the traveler may re-enter the United States on the return journey using any mode of transport, as long as the total visit, including both periods of time spent in transit and in Canada, Mexico or the adjacent islands, does not exceed 90 days." I think this was the reason finally, why they didn't let me stay. I had been in Mexico for more than 90 days, and if you stay in Mexico or Canada (studdying for example) for more than 90 days you need a return ticket to your home country. Pretty complicated if you ask me. And it's not all that uncommon, both times I was held up there was a European national who was in the same situation. Edited 05-22-2003 04:16 PM
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LoveGravy 
05-22-2003
04:01 PM ET (US)
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Well they wouldn't let me into a British terratory without proof that I was leaving, so this isn't a "US Only" issue.
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nixomatos 
05-22-2003
03:57 PM ET (US)
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I actually tried to enter twice with my visaless British passport. The first time the lady officer gave me a baaad look and told me that If I didn't have a return ticket or proof that I lived in the UK I couldn't get in. The second time I printed that very page and the lady officer gave me abaad look and told me that she knew her job and that I shouldn't be telling her what to do and denied me entry.
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Zwack 
05-22-2003
03:21 PM ET (US)
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in /m25 nixomatos said "Quite frankly the Visa Waiver program is very confusing. Last time I went to the US I was denied entry because even though I have a British passport I entered through Mexico by car (after a 2 hour drive) and with a visa like that you must have a return ticket to the country where you are from (I didn?t have one)."
But the official government pages at http://travel.state.gov/vwp.html#8 state...
Can I Enter at a Land Border from Canada or Mexico on the VWP?
Yes. If you are a citizen from a Visa Waiver country, you can enter the United States on the Visa Waiver program from Canada and Mexico. You do not have to show round-trip tickets. You do not have to arrive at the land border on a carrier (form of transportation) which has an agreement with the U. S. Government.
Z.
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LoveGravy 
05-22-2003
01:43 PM ET (US)
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My sister and mother went to Jamaica a few years back, and someone was selling pot 15' from the plane, before you even get on the shuttle bus! As for the bahamas, one of my friends sails in that area, and they had a .45 revolver on board (nickel plated, expensive gun) that they keep "Just in case" because drug runners sometimes steal boats to smuggle drugs and then scuttle them. While clearing customs, they were asked "Do you have any firearms on board" and he said "Yes, a pistol I have for self-defense". He was immediately thrown in jail, with the rest of the crew. The trial was set for 3 weeks from the date they were incarcerated, and their whole vacation was supposed to only be 10 days, so imagine calling your boss to say "I'll be 2 weeks late, I'm in a Bahamian Jail...". Anyways, they offered to give the chief of police the rather expensive gun, and he accepted and dropped all charges and released them. It's good to see that bribery is alive and well somewhere. Edited 05-22-2003 01:44 PM
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robnit 
05-22-2003
12:27 PM ET (US)
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heh, LoveGravy. I wonder if Jamaican customs officials have stopped dealing ganga to likely looking tourists? OTOH, Bahamas customs and immigration is very strict and straightforward.
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LoveGravy 
05-22-2003
11:14 AM ET (US)
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I think the guy without proper documentation SHOULD have been stopped. The rest of them, if they became upset about their friend, had a choice: Push it, or simply continue on. They pushed it, and got detained. As annoying as flying is, being a custom's agent isn't likely a cup of tea either. They have to deal with people all day who think the laws apply to everyone but them, so when someone gets stubborn they push back, and unfortunately (for the journalists) the customs folks will always win. Furthermore, customs agents are NOT America's best and brightest (no offense to any that might be here, but the training process doesn't require a PHD in Astrophysics...) so if they are challenged, don't expect an intellectual debate. I fly down to the British Virgin Islands all the time to go yachting. You land on Tortola at a small airport with goats and chickens running all over the place (until recently, they just got a new airport so it's lost it's fun). The customs folks usually just say "Why are you here?" you say "I'm going sailing" and they say "When are you leaving", then you are done. However, if they hear you complain while in line, expect a LONG wait. Show ANY attitude and you'll be standing there for 3 hours while you get your bags searched, the hotel/charter company called, etc. Customs agents, I've found, in general do not have much of a sense of humor, nor any compassion for complainers, and that's NOT unique to the USA. Edited 05-22-2003 11:18 AM
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nixomatos 
05-22-2003
10:35 AM ET (US)
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I think it's kinda understandable if they got upset anyway. Imagine, you just make a tiring 15-hour flight from Europe and you are given no options to enter the country.
They probably were very subdued at first (Immigration in the US is the scariest thing imaginable) and then when they found out there was nothing they could do they got angry.
Quite frankly the Visa Waiver program is very confusing. Last time I went to the US I was denied entry because even though I have a British passport I entered through Mexico by car (after a 2 hour drive) and with a visa like that you must have a return ticket to the country where you are from (I didn?t have one). The immigration woman was so incredibly unhelpful and arrogant, I ended up calling her a fascist once I saw there was no way she was letting me in (I have since gotten a regular tourist visa for the US anyway, it took me about 3 hours at the Embassy)
I think the big problem with a hostile immigration system like that is that, it's the first contact we make with American's once we enter the country, and it's probably one of the few times foreigners have any interaction with the American government. I think the image of the US would go a lot higher in the world if they made the law a bit more sensible, and if they gave at least a sensitivity training to the immigration people, and the workers at your consulates.
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h0l211 
05-22-2003
10:13 AM ET (US)
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One important point - there have been several messageboard posts in places like UK Resistance (games site) that indicate a number of English gaming journalists were also detained and, uhm, 'sent packing'. I might be inclined to subscribe to the 'rude French journos' idea otherwise, but I'm guessing this was a generalised crackdown. For what reason and justification, draw your own conclusions, yay. Edited 05-22-2003 10:14 AM
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David Stewart - Dublin 
05-22-2003
09:42 AM ET (US)
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You have to apply for an "I" visa before you leave your home country. The embassy in Dublin, I believe issues them for 2 years while the embassy in London issues for 5. From what I can gather, this is not a security issue, or at least it wasn't until 9/11. Rather it was a labour issue to encourage foreign media to use American freelancers rather than send their own people in, which is fair enough.
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