I really doubt T-Mobile could or would delete all your personal data from your Sidekick without your permission. But their unilateral removal of the games is a bit of a blow. It goes to show just how un-web-like and closed the mobile phone operators want the mobile "Internet" to be...

*inahales deeply* Ah, that fresh, clean, kicked-in-the-nuts feeling just makes your day, doesn't it?
Thanks Danger/T-Mobile!
All our contract are belong to you!

I've been using a P800 with T-Mobile in San Francisco and the South Bay for about two weeks now. I've got it setup so I can send phonecam picks to my blog via email. You can take a look at those pics to get an idea of the quality--note that they are "high" quality, 640x480.

A big difference from the Sidekick is the lack of a keypad--you'll have to use a stylus. I'm still getting the hang of their handwriting recognition system (a bit more flexible than Graffiti).

I downloaded Opera for the Symbian OS, and it looks very nice, but I've found the GPRS performance to be quite flaky. I don't know if it's a problem with the network (Cingular), the Symbian OS, or the apps, but very often the GPRS connection fails, despite high signal strength. This seems to happen right when I'm trying to show off my new gadget to my friends.

I bought my P800 from the Sony-Ericsson website for $650. I brought it to the T-mobile store on Market & 3rd, and the sales rep was able to setup GPRS after spending about 45 minutes on the phone with the Data Support group. Beware that T-mobile still doesn't officially support the P800, and they could use that as an excuse to stop helping you if you take up too much of their time.

Edited by author 06-27-2003 11:53 AM
I'm not in the least surprised by this. I sent my first Sidekick back and canceled the plan when T-mobile insisted that their plaintext web page showing all my PDA information was "secure". They clearly have no conception of what they've got or how to properly support it.

Sounds like class-action-lawsuit bait to me.

I was trying to remember what Tmobile called itself before the current incarnation. Didn't they have to change their name because their reputation was so bad?

The Treo600 is looking interesting.

It has a camera, sd slot to add more memory, backup your data, runs PalmOS5, and you can write your own palm apps for it.

I purchased my first Sidekick June 20 and have really enjoyed using the device. When this "update/upgrade" was forced upon me last evening, and I discovered it's results, I was extremely angered by this big brother tactic.

This is my first time doing any business with Sidekick/T-Mobile. I really like the device. Are there other options that would give me similar types of services without too many problems, and have simple, intuitive interfaces?

I have never been angered by a company's actions so much before. The games do not mean that much to me, but it obviously shows that T-Mobile decides what I use on this device at all times.

I contacted my state's attorney general's office today in regard to this business practice. I also faxed them a copy of the T-Mobile contract.
They were very interrested in this "business practice".

A little meta-discussion going on back here as well...

http://www.hiptop.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5802

Ok, folks... look... you are doing business with a company named "Danger"... what did you expect? At least there is some truth in advertising there...

B.

Derb: Your information isn't really saved on the Sidekick -er, Hiptop unit. It's saved on a Tmobile server, which then gets cached to the handheld device. So yes, if you cease to be a Tmobile subscriber, your access to your data disappears.

I still like this device a bit too much to give it up, but perhaps I can switch to AT&T (and maintain my current number :D) this winter...

as for the P800, I just wish they had a camera-LESS version. damnit I carry around a $1000+ camera, this is silly

The only problem I have with switching and ditching my Sidekick at the moment is the fact that the TMobile plan includes unlimited net access. I haven't been able to find a competing carrier with the same deal. If someone can point me to a competing carrier that does (AT&T sure doesn't), please do.

DaveW, TMobile was formerly VoiceStream in the states. Actually, VoiceStream was a US company, and got bought by TMobile, a European company. That's the reason for the name change. I don't remember any particularly bad reputation for VoiceStream, in fact I chose them initially because they seemed to have a better rep than the others.

Booklegger, the problem here is TMobile, not Danger. TMobile is the company doing this. Danger just supplies the system that TMobile is fucking us with. From all I can tell, Danger is doing everything they can - they're getting fucked by TMobile in this deal as well.

I was looking at the P800 too, but this Register review gave me pause. In the end, the writer thinks it's worth having, but I'm not so sure.

I want a phone that's mostly good for data. I only need to make voice calls a couple times a year, but there are a couple of times a day I'd like to be able to run a Google query or the like. Anybody have any recommendations for that kind of device?

I'm in Los Angeles - anybody have any thoughts on service providers?

As for a phone that is more for Data/work than phone, I've been *very* happy with my Visor w/phone attachment. Some downsides, sure, like Sprint-only service, data access isn't unlimited (depending on your plan), not color, and it's not at cool as a hiptop. But a Visor costs $100 and the phone add-on can be had for $30, so it's way cheaper than a Treo, or the 'cell phones with a Palm in them' ala P800, as well as being more useful IMHO with it's bigger screen, big buttons, and old-skool graffiti input (I don't like the mini-keyboards for data entry). Also you can run all kinds of software on it, and sync the data to anywhere you need, including multiple clients and/or servers. The big deal-killer for me, in regards to the Hiptop, was the fact that it's a 'dead-end' as far as your data goes. My Visor w/phone attachment isn't the perfect solution, by far; IMHO that would be if Sony took one of there higher-end Palm devices (the ones with the flip-round screens) and added a built-in phone/data link- that would be *perfect*. But for the time being, it's the next-best low-buck option I've seen & used.

Edited by author 06-27-2003 01:35 PM
I'll have to second Karl's thoughts on the Treo 600. That's what I'll probably be switching to. I gave up on the hiptop a few months ago after the SDK came out but that there was no way to actually LOAD ANYTHING ON YOUR DEVICE without becoming a Level 5 developer and going OTA on it.

Treo 600 pros: Palm OS 5, full Palm App/SDK support, decent hardware (32MB RAM, 144MHz OMAP ARM), SSHv1/v2 programs publicly available, 640x480 built-in camera, decent keypad, bright (daylight usable) screen, SDIO, large battery (1800mAh)

cons: low-res [for an OS5 Palm] screen (160x160), no built-in BT (but support promised via SDIO), no AMPS fallback, non-removable battery (but apparently there will be a 1200mAh external add-on battery)

Specs: http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/236-1.htm
Gallery: http://www.mixstar.com/treo600/

There's apparently GSM and CDMA versions, although it looks like the first model to come out in the fall (Sept/Oct) will be on SprintPCS. My T-Mobile contract ends on Oct 1 (I paid full price for my hiptop too), I'll definitely be cancelling.

BTW, TreoCentral tested real-world transfer rates with Bmeter a few months ago (Treo 300 vs 270). On average, the Sprint 1xRTT 3G is about 4-5x faster than GPRS. Sprint's been offering unlimited 3G Vision for +$10/mo, so there's no reason not to switch (even T-Mobile is offering unlimited data for +$20/mo now, so even if you stick with them, there's no real reason to stick to the hiptop).

My main concern with both the Sprint Vision and GPRS is missing calls due to data usage. Right now, I believe that if you're actively transferring data on either system (not just dormant), you won't get an incoming voice call. My understanding is that on the GPRS end this is a handset limitation (Class B allows voice monitoring during data transfer, Class A [no handsets exist] allow simultaneous data and voice) but a network issue for Sprint Vision (that may or may not be upgraded next year, may require 1xEV, which would be a while off?).

Anyone have more info on this topic? I'm unclear on the latter.

See:
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=133804
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=72217

I don't know about the Treo, but I can say that with my Visor w/Phone attachment (which makes it almost the same as a Treo, just bulkyer) that if I'm online then I can't get a voice call, and vise-versa. But can do anything else with the unit while talking or online, such as look up an appointment or open the calculator. But no, you can't do data & voice. It's a lot more like a 'modem' kinda vibe than the Wi-Fi vibe, if you know what I mean. :)

I don't know why cory is intent on blaming tmobile dor this when its dangers decision whether to pull these apps. Tmobile doesn't seem to care what you do with their bandwidth. Blackberry customers use the same gprs I do on my color sidekick.

The real problem is that is vendor lockin and thin client solutions are easily abused. I don't think any SK owners own anything, even the OS. Its all a temporary license, so next time danger is short on cash it may pull something else without warning.

Some replacements are the blackberry 600 or that new nokia with a camera built in. I'm starting to dig the blackberries. They're not pretty but they do geek-friendly stuff like ssh and vpn on top of what the SK offers. Sure my SK is color but once the novelty wears off I might jump ship too.