Edited by author 01-20-2003 06:17 PM
Ah Miguel! I see that we are getting around. First Max Sawicky, and now here. Well, let me repeat the question that you kind of didn't answer: You can call for recall elections in August. Why don't you wait until August and vote him out then? Afterall, as I stated over at Maxspeak, if I can wait until 2004 to vote out my draconian, neo fascist leader, why can't you wait several months to vote out yours? Is it because you really don't want elections? Is it because you really want a military strongman to come and destroy even the modest European style reforms (hated by the fringe right as much as communism itself...) proposed by Chavez?

I might note that this is where the Digital Divide rears it's ugly head. Clearly, the majority of the Venezuelan poor don't have computers and don't have blogs. Shameful actually...

Here's that link to more of Miguel's pro military coup (he never answered the question as to whether he supported the first and I don't think it's a different Miguel...)propagand---, uhhh, "truthtelling" at this link:

http://maxspeak.org/gm/archives/00000794.html#comments

Philip Shropshire
www.threerivertechreview.com
www.majic12.com

PS: You know it's kind of funny, you talk about how Chavez wasn't really democratically elected and I have to ask you compared to what and to who? Our votes weren't even important enough to count here in the states and the guy doesn't even tread softly after that as he initiates steps to ruin the economy, decimates civil liberties, rounds up, we think, several thousand people or less without trial or counsel, we're not sure, for dubious reasons...I mean, if Chavez had the Bush record then maybe Viva la Revolution but he breaks into a private company to take food in order to feed the poor...? And doesn't bother to kill any of the yuppie protesters while he's doing it? Not exactly Pinochet material if you ask me...

For the record (since a couple people have written to me about this): this link does not imply an endorsement of the anti-Chavez movement or of Chavez. As I wrote to one friend:

"I linked to it because I'm fascinated with the weirdness of the politics there. You've got trade-unionists and contributors to the Socialist Worker endorsing a new election, and bloggers attempting to create a web-based response (online leakage into civil polity is my new overweening obsession). There's no endorsement (there was no commentary from me on the link), but it *is* something I want keep track of. I'm predicting/waiting for a flashpoint in meatspace politics when some kind of loosely federated smartmob slashdots the vote, not just to ouster someone (the Filipinos already did that), but also to install someone.

"One of the downsides of BB being pretty widely read is that it sometimes makes it hard to use it as a commonplace book for bibs and bobs about the world that I want to keep track of. In any event, I'm hoping that a vigorous discussion ensues in the Discuss link so that I can see how the different sides frame their arguments."

Yeah, it doesn't seem to fit into your politics at all. I just think this is the opposite of what happened in South Korea and that Miguel doesn't represent the good guys, or, at the very least, the poor guys, who probably don't have access to computers and blogs...Just a hunch.

The problem here is that ther is so many people that is learning from us just watching TV and from "propaganda chavista". We had elections two years after Chavez began his "first" term. The other candidate was and old pal of him, Arias Cardenas. A sucessful former governor from the State of Zulia, the one that has the lake, Maracaibo City and all of that. He was going to be the winner of that election, but "misteriously" it was posponed like for three or four months later. Then, Chavez used all our tax money to cheat and to eliminate every resistance he had. And I forgot to mention that he hired personally the company that counts the votes, INDRA.
We are afraid that if we do not do the referendum now, he will manage to eliminate us, to kill us,(as he is already doing). If we do the referendum now, he will lose like 90% against 10%, because he IS really a lousy president.
And at least you are crying because your waiting for an election in 2004. If we just have that. This guy was elected to be president for 5 years, with no re-election. He dissolved the congress, called for a referendum, aproved a constitution taylor-made for him and his pals, and modificated the term to be 6 year-long with re-election.
And then, he started again. So he is 4 years now in charge, still 4 to go, and destroying every democratic institution he will again manage to be re-elected and to perpetuate in power.
And YOU think you got a problem?!

The Venezuelan upper class and the US intelligence agencies are attempting to subvert Venezuelan democracy.-The upper classes there use protest tactics to cause disruption and bad publicity for leftist governments with staged media events and hyped-up lock-outs masquerading as popular general strikes.

When Andres Perez tried to give the country away to the rich in 1989 the poor complained and Perez had 1000 of them gunned down in the riots called the Caracazo. Chavez led a coup against Perez in 1992. Perez was impeached for corruption in 1994 and Chavez was freed from jail.
Chavez was elected President in 1998 and 2000 by landslide votes.
In 1998 Chavez had the luxury of a mandate to purge and restructure the judicial, military and administrative branches of the government. Even the right wing in the US applauded some of these efforts. Voters overwhelmingly endorsed Chavez's new constitution.
Once Chavez passed a moderate reform package of 38 laws the US and its wealthy friends in Venezuela – went literally ballistic and decided that Chavez had to go.
The only evidence given by the right wing for wanting to depose Chavez is that he gives long and lousy speeches. He has been a popular leader for four years and listens to the poor majority who expect him to help them. The crime which Chavez has committed was the 39 laws he passed. These laws include increased spending on education, health care, modest land reforms, free elections for unions and higher oil royalties. The interventions of the US, the silence of the world and the CIA will come back to haunt the rich one day.

http://www.aporrea.org/english.php

Pardon me? Mr. Macario, let me say that you are either a radical from the chavismo, or you do not live in Venezuela and want to play Civilization watching us die here.
Purge and reestructure the judicial, military and administrative branches of the government? Well, that is a funny way to say "I want to put all my friends and comrades in charge". The General Attorney used to be the vice-president, the Supreme Court was named adn appointed by the finger. I just want to be a country like the US, or France, doing this.
Moderate reform? He taylor-made 40 laws, without any consultation of the minorities,(nor the majorities or anybody), that gave the Government the right to confiscate private property, among others.
"He is been a popular leader that listens to the poor majority who expect him to help them", that must be the only true statement in your propagandistic speech, but it is merely that: he listens, he did not care. He did NOTHING for the poor majority, he only cares for power, luxuries and money. Period.
Do you want to have some proof on this, just watch the most recent "Alo Presidente", broadcasted from "23 de Enero", he said "hi!" to a mother and his kid, and she told him, on national television, on MY national television "president, you forgot to help Us, give Us a little hand",(presidente, se olvido de nosotros, echenos una manita, in Spanish).
We have more and more kids on the streets, we are now REALLY a poor nation, we are facing the horror of the "Circulos", the shame represented by Acosta Carles...and you still have the guts to write all those lies here?
I am sorry, but this is just plain crap. Aporrea is crap, how comes that in the "forum" section of that website they say that they do not accept there anyone that is not "chavista"? How comes that to the agression made by the National Guard to a bunch of people, mostly women, they are asking for "prison" to the women that act "against the poor national guard"...with his steel blade and bombs. Come on!
Try a little harder my friend, the world is watching, and lies have short feet.

a "strike" is not a strike just because the media calls it one....
a lockout of workers by owners and executives is not a strike...
a "strike" in which McDonalds, Wendys and other foreign chain stores shut their doors and refuse to pay their workers is not a strike...
marching around with placards is not a strike...
feebly trying to block highways and millions of workers trying to get to work is not a strike...
a strike with no real support from the working class is not a strike...
anyone who has participated in a strike knows that the media never cheers it! the first hint that there is no strike in Venezuela is that the media supports it. Any labor organizer or union member who has ever been on strike knows how it really works.
only the rich who've never had to organize and fight for their rights as workers could possibly think that a lockout by owners against workers could be called a strike.

www.vheadline.com
hwww.zmag.org/venezuela_watch.htm

Oh, well. Then how do you call this? A conspiracy where 80% of the population tries to "manipulate" the other 20%?
Maybe the problem here is semantics, but the problem remains the same.
Maybe nobody has never seen something like this before, maybe the name is not right, but the working class supports the strike.
The government is the one who is responsible for the poverty, for the economy,(needless to say, is in its worst crisis for a very long time), for the hate and division on Venezuela.
Some of the websites you suggested tried to put this as a "racial" fight, or a fight between the "poor" and the "rich". You know it is not like that. You know that humble and rich feels the same hate for Chavez and everything he represents.
Well, how could you justify that a government is not able to run a country, to provide the basis, the basic services the people need to work, to eat, to live in peace?
Are you saying that a bunch of "rich" people and "white against black" are more powerful than a nation´s president? A president that has to threaten and menace people in order to stop marchs against him, that hires reporters, journalists and criminals to shot oppositors it is just NOT able to run a country. Period.
This guy it is just NOT able to run a country, just look at the mess, you may try to call it "excessive normality", but you know, right inside that red cloud that surrounds your eyes and mind, that THIS is not normal. Call it the name you want it, just don´t call it normal.

The opposition attempted a military coup in April 2002, has attempted to shut down the economy in order to try to oust the elected government of Hugo Chavez. In response, the supporters of the government’s program has come out to defend the government, the constitution, and its reforms. The reforms are part of the ‘Bolivarian Process’. The Bolivarian movement aims at redistribution of the wealth of the country for the benefit of its poor majority-- including land reform and reform of the state-owned oil company-- and greater Latin American integration. The Bolivarian movement has also opened up space for democratic participation with constitutional reforms and assistance for community media, community self-organization, co-operative economic projects, and more. In everyday encounters there’s this spirit of change—after greeting each other on the street people will immediately start talking about the projects they’re organizing, all the organizing that they’re doing, studying the constitution, establishing co-operatives. The 80% that live in poverty knew frustration, disempowerment. With his humble, indigenous and afro-Venezuelan roots, they feel that Chavez really represents them. The description of Venezuela as a country with a majority that’s poor, brown, black, or indigenous and an elite that’s wealthy and white, is accurate. Chavez is proud of his indigenous and African roots. When the opposition press attacks him, they use words like ‘savage’. He represents the majority, and the majority understands that when the opposition demonstrates its contempt and hatred for Chavez, it’s also demonstrating its contempt and hatred for them. ‘el proceso’, give the poor, the victims of institutionalized racism, a voice they’ve never had before.

The biggest problem is that no one here knows what's going on in Venezuela.

Here are the facts I'm fairly sure of:

Chavez is corrupt. The "strike" is not a strike, considering that the employers are organizing. Both sides have well-organized, massive propaganda machines and they're spewing forth in a forum on Venezuelan politics near you right this very moment! Your average Venezuelan is being taken advantage of right now. You really can't believe much that's being reported on in Venezuela right now.

Here's what I suspect. No matter what happens, the majority of Venezuelans are screwed. No matter what happens, Chavez probably won't leave office democratically... he'll be ousted by force or he'll die naturally in office. It's only a question of when. The Americans are probably dabbling in local politics... oil, y'know? They're likely not on Chavez's side.

Question: Under the new constitution, has Chavez's term even started yet?!

Cheem, that´s right. Everything you say is just right. And about the question on Mr. Chavez´ term, he already has four years in charge, (he was elected for five years in 1998).
If we were talking about waiting for december to go to an election and then replace him, there would be no problem.
The point is that he was elected to rule for five years, and he made a brand new constitution that gaves him six years instead. Then he made a new election to start over again. And he included reelection in our constitution, and he menaces to stay until "2021".
What is that? A dictator. Period. If we were talking about a normal five-year term, or a four-year term with one reelection, that would be okay. But he will have eight years in office when the next election scheduled take place. And who kwnos what he could and would do to cheat again.
He has done that already, he will do it again.
The propaganda machines are outrageous. They have many government-paid websites, supposedly controled by "the poor", (the poor people that uses PHP and have money to host a website with many mirrors and feeds).
And to say something to "tagabukid", please try not to be so obvious.
Many years ago, when Chavez and his pals attempted to do two military coups,(not to mention other attempts that were soffocated and never came out to the public light), many leftists threated his opponents calling them "golpistas", accusing them of being part of the military coup. Nowadays, that very same people are the defenders of the "process". What an opportunity, isn´t it?
I do not know in wich country tagabukid is living in. The one I see is full of afraid people, people that after saying "hello" start talking about how we are screwed.
How the "bolivarian movement" has oppened this and that, is just a creation of tagabukid´s imagination. I am not rich, I am not pale white, I am not fascist.
The only organization Chavez has promoted, is the one that put war weapons in hands of some "angels" to kill and terify every single person against them or Chavez. Yesterday I read on the newspaper that a dangerous criminal was caught by police in ths very crime scene, and hours later was liberated because he carried an id issued by the political police. The political police said that he was a "patriot in a mission for the revolution".
Go figure.

“Yesterday I read on the newspaper that a dangerous criminal was caught by police in ths very crime scene, and hours later was liberated because he carried an id issued by the political police. The political police said that he was a "patriot in a mission for the revolution".
Go figure.”

Independent, aggressive and critical media are essential to an informed democracy. But mainstream media are increasingly cozy with the economic and political powers they should be watchdogging. With media outlets overwhelmingly owned by conglomerates and supported by corporate advertisers, independent journalism is compromised. Structural reform is needed to break up the dominant media conglomerates, establish independent public broadcasting, and promote strong, alternative sources of information.

"Independent, aggressive and critical media are essential to an informed democracy. But mainstream media are increasingly cozy with the economic and political powers they should be watchdogging. With media outlets overwhelmingly owned by conglomerates and supported by corporate advertisers, independent journalism is compromised. Structural reform is needed to break up the dominant media conglomerates, establish independent public broadcasting, and promote strong, alternative sources of information."

Okay Macario, I could not agree more with you on this. The only thing I need now is you to define what is that you call "independent public broadcasting" and "strong, alternative sources of information". Do you knew that in Venezuela the airwaves are owned by the State? The right to broadcast is granted or taken by the State, so there could not be a real "independent" media. Also, the paper sued to print newspapers is imported from abroad, so, giving dollars in a foreign currency exchange control like the one we have now, has been a way for governments like Lusinchi´s to blackmail written media.
Now, the government promotes illegal broadcasters, like "TV Catia", located in the west side of the city. And what do they broadcast? Educational tv shows? Wel, mmm, not exactly. They are used to call the "Circulos" to go somewhere to "protect" the "revolution".
There are also radio stations in that particular style, one of those, one in Maracaibo, asks "circulos" to go and destroy a ranch ("hacienda", "hato", "finca"), or to threat some TV station. The other I have learned exists, broadcasts every single thing that happens on Plaza Francia in Altamira.
The first one is operated by "chavstas", the second one by opposition.
None of them are right on this, illegal is illegal, and THAT is what the government is promoting. Of course the like the one that promotes the "circulos", and do not like the ones that promotes the opposition. But the two of them are the same: illegal broadcasters, "community stations" they call it.
By the way, I think the only media we will find in Venezuela on the future, is this one you are reading now. I really hope not, but it just seems like that.

Oh, by the way, there is a link the news I mentioned before:

http://archivo.eluniversal.com/2003/01/22/22214AA.shtml

Imagine the owners of The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post and NBC, ABC, CBS, and CNN meeting at the home of Times publisher Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr. with the head of the Joints Chiefs of Staff and assorted military top brass to plot to bring down U.S. President John Doe, a blowhard populist who has been elected by a landslide.
The plan is wickedly simple. Organize a massive march to the Washington, D.C. headquarters of Omnicom, the behemoth conglomerate that generates most of the country's riches, ostensibly to show support for their valiant struggle against the meddlesome, regulation-crazy Doe. Then, suddenly, turn the march around and head to the White House, which, your military co-conspirators tell you, will be left unguarded, to demand that Doe resign, or else ... Marchers will be recruited among the wealthiest 20 percent of the population, including members of Jimmy Hoffa's new AFL-CIO, which only unionizes top wage earners. Hoffa, however, will be dumped the moment Doe is removed from the White House. He knows about the coup to dump Doe, but not about the coup within the coup now being hatched in Sulzberger's parlor to disband Congress, suspend the Constitution, fire all Supreme Court judges, kick out all state governors, and dismantle not just the entire Doe administration, but any and all aspects of the federal and state government structure the conspirators dislike. The day before the march, the networks and hundreds of radio stations the conspiring media barons control, broadcast free ads for the march every 10 minutes. The march itself gets lavish live media coverage. So does the coup, er ... the democratic action by civil society. And the coup within the coup (which, officially, doesn't even exist). One highlight is the live coverage of the arrest and near-lynching of a Doe cabinet member by angry 20 percenters. The whole country also sees and hears a Sulzberger minion, who also happens to be the Fortune 400 association's boss of bosses, proclaim himself interim President and destroy the U.S. constitutional structure with the stroke of a pen, to the thundering applause of a bunch of billionaires and four-star generals jockeying to get in the picture with him.
All this, naturally, creates a bad impression among the remaining 80 percent of Americans, who are abjectly poor and who voted overwhelmingly for President Doe. They take to the streets as well. When the coup begins to unravel, the networks enact a total, self-imposed news blackout. As poor Americans march in turn to the White House demanding, and finally getting, the imprisoned Doe's return, the networks broadcast reruns of "Pretty Woman" and cartoons, or show over and over footage of Doe's ouster and advise people to stay home.

Hard to believe? Not in Venezuela, where something along these lines happened. And, in a small, but perverse way, not even in the U.S., where the networks turned off the information faucet during the Bush inauguration to enforce our rulers' consensus that it was time for the country to stop bickering about judicial coups and to move on. Conspirators are said to have met many times at the home of Miguel Henrique Otero, publisher of El Nacional, one of Venezuela's two main dailies, and other newspapers. Among them was Alberto Ravell, CEO of Globovisión, a CNN affiliate which is the country's main all-news TV station, Marcel Granier, of RCTV, another leading station, and Gustavo Cisneros, Venezuela's wealthiest man and a friend and fishing partner of former President Bush. The Cisneros Group owns Venevisión, one of the country's main networks, and is part owner of the local Direct TV franchise, Caracol Television, and the U.S. Spanish-language network Univisión. Venezuela's media establishment, closely aligned with a local oligarchy that has the receptive ear of the Bush administration, almost unanimously abhors Chávez' populist policies, big-mouth authoritarian style, friendship with media buster, Fidel Castro, and intolerance of criticism. Chávez hates them back. Led by Cisneros, the media group, which also included Andrews Mata, owner of El Universal, Venezuela's other major daily, met with self-proclaimed interim President and big business mouthpiece Pedro Carmona on Saturday April 14, 2002 as demonstrators were pouring out on the streets of Caracas demanding Chávez' return. Flanked by one of the generals who had installed him in the presidential palace only a day earlier, Carmona asked the media bosses for help. They obliged: shortly thereafter, the news blackout, which had started the night before, became total. Neither El Universal nor El Nacional published their Sunday editions. Globovisión's Ravell reportedly even called CNN's Atlanta headquarters to ask, in vain, that the U.S. network join the news blackout. Venezuelans with access to cable and satellite — mostly the rabidly anti-Chávez middle and upper classes, the 20 percent not living in abject poverty — were thus able to find out that the coup was failing without leaving their homes. The poor had to go out on the streets to find out, which made them angrier — some attacked TV stations and newspapers — and probably accelerated Chávez' restoration.
The first Latin America media coup collapsed about 48 hours after it began, doomed by popular rage and, for the first time, the almost universal condemnation of the region's governments, who, in another first, forced a prematurely gleeful U.S. to tone down and back off on Chávez, at least for now.

Correspondents in Venezuela attempt to portray Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez as an unpopular leader. The basis for this has been the recitation of “polls”. The the source of their polls– Datanalisis and Keller and Associates, are headed by anti-Chavez figures, Jose Antonio Gil Yepes of Datanalisis and Alfredo Keller of Keller and Associates. Gil Yepes had said that Chavez “has to be killed.” and saw an assassination as the only way out of the “political crisis surrounding President Hugo Chavez.” It is an demonstration of the deep-seated class hatred by a large segment of Venezuela’s business-led opposition, which prefers to pretend that thousands of poor and working-class Chavez supporters do not exist. When a massive pro-government demonstration in Caracas on October 13, 2002 showed that a good portion of “the rest of the country” supported Chavez, the editorial board of Venezuela’s elite-controlled newspaper El Nacional was incensed. El Nacional, which commissions and publishes polls by Datanalisis, disparagingly referred to Chavez’s supporters as “lumpen” who were lured from the country’s interior with “a piece of bread and some rum” to “come and cheer the great con man of the nation.” Thus, from the warped perspective of much of the opposition, Datanalisis’ contention that "the rest of the country" opposes Chavez makes sense. Since elites are the people that “matter,” and those of less privilege can be reduced to virtual sub-human status, poor and working-class Chavez supporters do not qualify as part of “the rest of the country.” Also, Keller and Gil Yepes do not poll rural inhabitants. Thus, landless peasants who may benefit from Chavez’s agrarian reform are also excluded from polling samples.

Tiananmen:

You're a bold-faced liar, and you know it. You and your anti-Chavez cohorts in the commercial media in Venezuela have created your own virtual reality, a virtual reality that is comforting to your class, which has exploited the Venezuelan people for a century.

I don't have the time to address your every lie, but I invite folks to take a look at a piece that I just wrote for Narco News that exposes some of the lies of the Venezuelan opposition: http://www.narconews.com/Issue27/article594.html

For folks who are interested, you can check out a debate on Venezuela that featured myself, Narco News editor Al Giordano, and two academic "experts" on Venezuela. It's at: http://www.zmag.org/lam/delacour-debate.htm

So long. - Justin Delacour (jdelac@unm.edu)

Mr. delacour,

This is so very familiar to me, you came here from nowhere, insult, try to disqualify, and then leave.
It is not that you do not have TIME to address my "lies", you do not WANT to, because thre are no lies. As a matter of fact, probably "Us", you know, the "stablishment", (haha), do not have the time to address your every lie. You are well-paid people, working day and night for this. Grabbing yourselves to even a little of bit of power remaining in Chavez´ government. You want to show your loyalty to the regime, and, well, that´s okay for me. It is better that throwing stones to the people :-)
You know I am not telling lies here, I just live here and see what is happening. I just know that every day that passes by I have less and less money to buy goods. Goods like food and insurance. I am not talking about a plane or a boat. I do not talk about a Mercedes Benz. I just want to live quietly in my country, that my children could grow up in a terror-free enviroment. I just want to buy not a BMW, but a dog for my children to play.
And all of that could only be possible in a free country, not in a terrorized one.
Again, you know what is the truth here, I am not trying to convince you. A friend of mine once said that "when in an argue with someone, if you convince me, I won. Because I learned something new".

I am not trying to disqualify you and your colleagues, but you are.

Oh, I forgot to address Mr. Sakay.

So, what you are saying in your two page views-long posting, is that we must trust Fidel Castro over Globovision? I do not have to trust any media in Venezuela. They are the ones that promoted Chavez´ rise to power. Then I thought, how comes that someone would vote for a militar coup leader? A militar coup that left so many Venezuelans dead, so many civilians, so many militar staff, so many workers from Venezolana de Television, (state-owned tv network). Yes, you may come now and tell me that in the past, the fouth republic governments did the same and worst. Well, I did not like them either. They corrupted the armed forces to an extreme that now Chavez is only following their principles, in a radical way, but it is just an improving of the old way of corrupt people.

Maybe he is popular or not. But facts have proven that he is not able to run the country.

And talking again about trusting Fidel Castro, a guy that only has taken advantage of Venezuela every time he could, call it help, call it oil, call it whatever you want to call it. A guy that promoted a guerrilla that killed so many Venezuelans in the sixties. A guy that now is presented to the army as "a friend", when "a foe" it is just an euphemism of what he is...mmm, I surely think it twice before giving him the opportunity stick a dager in our backs.

So, you trust Castro over national media, I respect the right you have to be suicidal.

Venezuela has experienced the largest decline in average standard of living, as measured by a two-thirds decrease in average real income, and the largest increase in poverty levels of any country in Latin America over the past twenty years. Chavez been able to slow down the decline (during his second and third year in office GNP increased slightly) and to distribute the decline more evenly among the population by focusing state resources on the poorer sectors of the population through large increases in spending on education, health, and housing and through large-scale rural and urban land redistribution and micro-credit programs. Venezuela now allows for popular referenda, for recall votes, and for minority rights. This is a battle over a shrinking pie. Chavez is attempting develop an economic program which would diversify the economy and end Venezuela's dependency on oil.

Well Mr Tagabukid, that is not true. You know, as every single individual that lives in Venezuela, that right now we have so many more people living in extreme poverty that ever in the republic´s life.

You said that "Venezuela now allows for popular referenda, for recall votes, and for minority rights". Mmmm, "popular referenda"? You mean the one that has been recently cancelled by the electoral hall of the supreme court? "Minority rights"? Where?

"Chavez is attempting develop an economic program which would diversify the economy and end Venezuela's dependency on oil."
Okay, I suppose you really think that we are a bunch of majordomo programs here, yous automaticaly repliying to every single post of you with a couple of insults and four-pageviews postings.

Venezuela is an oil producer country. 80% of Venezuela´s economy is based on oil. I think it is a great idea, the one that the late Uslar Pietri had once, when he said that we must "seed the oil" in order to be a great country, etc, making investments in the people, the social thing and the infrastructure. But buying jets like the president´s Airbus, enhanced with the luxury package it was enhanced, and all the expenditures he likes to do, does not look to me like to be "seeding the oil".

Even if what you are saying is the truth, you guys do not have any idea on how to run a country. I do not either, but I am not running it :-)
What you are saying is that, for instance, if someone has a job that gives the everyday bread to his family, when the rest of the family wants to be independent of that guy, instead of finding jobs first and be independent afterwards, you kill the guy and find the way to survive, even f you have to be hungry and naked on the streets.
Okay, you do not know what it is that you are saying. Please read your own post before submitting it.

Oil wealth has never impacted the lives of Venezuela's working class. 80% live in poverty. One percent of the population owns 60% of the arable land. Economic troubles have affected the rich. Currency devaluation has greater negative economic impact on the rich, they tend to buy more products that are denominated in dollars: real estate, vacations to the U.S. They can no longer afford these purchases because their income is worth half as much. Most government reforms: new constitution, education, health care, land reform, benefit the poor more. For the first time in history, universal health care is more accessible to the poor. With education, thousands of schools have been introduced throughout the country, providing meals to poor students. There are one million new students in schools who were never part of the school system before. The new constitution enables participation of large sectors of society that were excluded from government before: women, indigenous peoples, and homosexuals. The government has introduced land reform programs designed to put idle land into production and to redistribute idle land to landless peasants to create greater social justice and increase the country's agricultural production. It is also supplemented by agricultural credit and training programs. There is democratization of property and local governance through participatory planning processes for local projects, public housing program and the micro-credit programs that support workplace democracy and creation of cooperatives. There is government's effort to collect income taxes for the first time in Venezuelan history. Only those with incomes in the top 20% or so are required to pay income taxes.

Tagabukid, now you are talking like a piece of propaganda. Oil wealth has ALWAYS impacted the lives of Venezuela´s working class. Where do you think the infraestructure money comes from? From trees? How do you think the government manages to find the money to build hospitals, highways, medical doctor´s salary and everything else? 80% of the government´s earnings come, still comes from the oil wealth, as you call it.

"Currency devaluation has greater negative economic impact on the rich, they tend to buy more products that are denominated in dollars: real estate, vacations to the U.S. They can no longer afford these purchases because their income is worth half as much" (!)

If you really think that, I am spending my time here writing to you. The government is purposedly devaluating the currency, so he can manage to pay his debts with less dollars. With currency devaluation the economic impcat is suffered by everyone: maybe "the rich" could no longer spend two weeks on his "vacations in the US", he will spend only one. But the poor, could no longer afford four glasses of ilk and two pieces of bread for his family, he could only afford a glass of milk and a single piece of bread.
Is THAT fair? Do you really think that when a country gets poorer and poorer the only people that gets impacted are "the rich"?
Why do not you say that almost everything we use and eat in Venezuela came from abroad, or at the very least its raw material?
Taxes? Why don´t you say thata verything in this country is taxed by the so called "IVA", that taxates with the 16% every single good we can buy, and now they even tax food, cheese, milk, meat, etc. Oh, I almost forgot to tell that the medical services are now taxated with an 8%, even if we are talking about an emergency. And by the way, that´s sepparate from the income taxes almost everyone pays. And now they are talking about a new tax called "monotribute", an income tax that will be payed by everyone, poor or rich, wealthy or not.

"The government has introduced land reform programs designed to put idle land into production and to redistribute idle land to landless peasants to create greater social justice and increase the country's agricultural production." That´s your way to say that the government has promoted and encouraged illegal invations on private properties.

Finally, you mentioned that there is "democratization of property and local governance", that´s your way to say "comunism"? How come that a property owned by a private, which is idle because no one wants to make an investment in a country where the military burps in the face of the owner of a Coca-Cola depot while he confiscates the soda bottles? And then the very president congratulates that general in a national television broadcast?

Oh, please.

"The government is purposedly devaluating the currency, so he can manage to pay his debts with less dollars."

Tiananmen, you're just ignorant. The debt is dollar-denominated. It increases with devaluation. This is elementary.

Chavez has no interest in this kind of drastic devaluation.
Chavez has just thrown up currency controls because Venezuela's rich have been running to the banks to cash in their currency for dollars, which drives down the value of the currency. It's Venezuela's rich that are responsible for the devaluation, and everybody with a little sense knows this.

"With currency devaluation the economic impcat is suffered by everyone: maybe 'the rich' could no longer spend two weeks on his 'vacations in the US,' he will spend only one. But the poor, could no longer afford four glasses of ilk and two pieces of bread for his family, he could only afford a glass of milk and a single piece of bread."

Look, everybody with half a brain knows that the rich and the middle class are more dependent on imported goods, and that it is the price of imported goods that accelerates the most with devalation. Please spare all this nonsense about how all Venezuelans are in this together, as if the interests of different classes are not divergent.

"Is THAT fair? Do you really think that when a country gets poorer and poorer the only people that gets impacted are 'the rich'?"

No, the poor take a hit too, but the reason the economy is in such dire straits is that Venezuela's rich have been sabotaging the economy for some time now, through disinvestment, capital flight and now capital strike. The rich are so incredibly greedy that they'll do whatever they can to oust a president who seeks a more equitable distribution of wealth. If you want to point your finger at folks who are destroying Venezuela's economy, point it at your own class.

"Why do not you say that almost everything we use and eat in Venezuela came from abroad, or at the very least its raw material?"

Historically, Venezuela's currency is overvalued, which causes an overdependence on imported goods, particularly among the rich. There mutually-reinforcing problem of dependence on oil revenue and overvaluation. Large oil revenue is the source of overvaluation, while overvaluation reinforces Venezuela's dependence on oil revenue. Overvaluation makes it impossible for the Venezuelan economy to diversify and become more competitive internationally, since the products that it produces are so expensive on the international market. Thus, many Venezuelans rely on imported goods, which is not good for the long-term development of Venezuela's economy.

"Taxes? Why don´t you say thata verything in this country is taxed by the so called 'IVA,' that taxates with the 16% every single good we can buy, and now they even tax food, cheese, milk, meat, etc. Oh, I almost forgot to tell that the medical services are now taxated with an 8%, even if we are talking about an emergency. And by the way, that´s sepparate from the income taxes almost everyone pays. And now they are talking about a new tax called 'monotribute,' an income tax that will be payed by everyone, poor or rich, wealthy or not."

So what? Pity the rich Venezuelan who finally has to pay some taxes once in his or her life. Get a grip, buddy! It's about time that Latin America's rich pay some damn taxes. Venezuela's rich can't stand the fact that Chavez seeks to use this tax revenue on, God forbid, social spending for the country's poor. So the rich and their media networks invent every kind of ridiculous argument they can imagine to try to evade their responsibility to society, particularly to the poor. Go to hell, you greedy assholes! Welcome to the real world, where the rich -- as in every first world country -- are supposed to pay some taxes to ameliorate society's inequities.

"That´s your way to say that the government has promoted and encouraged illegal invations on private properties."

Illegal invasions, my ass! You know good and well that Venezuela is a horribly inequitable country. Chavez has every right and reason to redistribute some land to the landless, just as the South Koreans and the Taiwanese did after World War II. When you wake the fuck up to the fact that the values of the rich in your society are rotten to the core, and that your society will never undergo meaningful social development until the rich take some responsibility to assist that development, you'll be a much better person.

"How come that a property owned by a private, which is idle because no one wants to make an investment in a country where the military burps in the face of the owner of a Coca-Cola depot while he confiscates the soda bottles? And then the very president congratulates that general in a national television broadcast?"

Right, Chavez and everybody else are just supposed to kiss the asses of the rich in Venezuela and elsewhere so that the rich will throw a few crumbs to the rest of society with their "investment." This is what we call neoliberalism, folks; it's not any kind of road to development. Latin American governments have been kissing the neoliberal asses of global finance and domestic oligarchies for the last twenty years, and all it has brought the region is more poverty and inequality.

The long and arduous road to a new and more equitable model of development has begun with Chavez, and Venezuela's rich will go on kicking and screaming for one simple reason: Chavez is not subservient to them. All the remaining arguments spewed by the Venezuelan right are pure subterfuge.

Mr Delacour,

You know that the debts that I am talking about are the internal debts, public employee´s salary, etc. You must know we use Bolivars as our legal currency.

Chavez is trying to stop the massive money runaway, but the worst way. You know it, and if you do not know that, please stop bullshitting here. You know the government and its dullness is what´s making this country burn and fall into pieces.

Everyone is dependent from imported goods, and there is no discussion about that. If you don´t know where every single stupid thing came from in Venezuela, it is not my fault.

About repeatedly pointing at me as a "media-paid agent" or that I am rich, white and anglosaxon, I just think you guys are to brain-weak. You have what the psicologysts call a "rough brain". And to answer that question, yes, I write here because the English Crown papid me to do so. My real name is Bond, James Bond. (!)

All the rest you wrote is nonsense. Well, it´s really comunist propaganda, and I am very happy about the fact that you guys finally accepted you are nothing but a bunch of comunists that want to take every single structure in our beloved country and say you are "revolutionary". You are just plain thiefs. And if you are not, even worst, you are a thief wannabe.

Go and work someday and please do not wait until the day some crazy adventurer want to "take from the rich to give to the poor". In our own version of that tale, when the poor receives the money, then he becomes rich...and then Chavez come again and "take from the rich..."

So long, nice try.

What a sorry old ploy it is to label anybody who calls for social reform a "communist." Hugo Chavez came to power calling for "capitalism with a human face." That's exactly what he's tried to implement by extending primary education, providing poor school children with breakfast and lunch, and embarking upon moderate land reform. But people like you, the people of Venezuela's elite, won't even accept "capitalism with a human face" because you see even moderate social reform as a threat to your interests and your economic domination of the rest of Venezuelan society. You only accept savage neoliberalism (neoliberalismo salvaje).

You and your class are really quite a shameful spectacle to behold. You care about nobody but yourselves.

It is Venezuela's elites who are thieves, thieves who have thrived off of the exploitation of Venezuelan workers and the country's national oil patrimony, while most of the country lives in poverty.

And by the way, asshole, I do work. And I don't have some poor exploited maid make my meals or clean up after me as you rancid oligarchs of Venezuela are so accustomed to having.

One day you might wake up to the fact that even economically successful capitalist countries, like those of Western Europe or South Korea and Taiwan, understand the importance of limiting levels of inequality. Unfortunately, Latin America's elites are still wedded to the notion that any kind of social reform designed to ameliorate gross inequalities is "communism." As long as people like you and your elite Venezuelan cohorts wed yourselves to such retrograde beliefs, you will inevitably bring violence and social conflict to your societies.

Just look at yourselves, insulting and insulting, when you wear all your propaganda out. Oh, I forgot, your communist propaganda.

Okey, let´s not call it communism, let´s call ir "democracy", as Fidel Castro calls its communism there in Cuba. Or it is that you are so blindfolded to call what´s happening in Cuba "capitalism with a human face"?

And let´s face it, "capitalism with a human face" as you call Chavez´s communism-wannabe, has done nothing for humans.
Let´s not call it "the poor" or "the rich". He has done NOTHING to ease the hunger, childs on the streets begging for money to eat, millions and millions of workers WITHOUT a job. Yes, millions, more than 3 million people without a job. More than EVER.

YEs, I have to say the the elites that governed the country before Chavez destroyed and salvaged the country. I do not want to get back to that time. But with Chavez I don´t see any improving, I just see that the country is poorer and poorer. Chavez is rich now, and he asks people to starve in order to defend "his revolution". This week he just threatened everyone saying that his "revolution" was armed with tanks, guns, cannons, jets and bullets. Which ones? Our armed forces weapons? And WHO gave him the right to use those? The constitution? The same one that he shows every time that he commit a crime?

The fact is that Chavez is taking private depots by assault to take away beer and cokes, having parties like in the ancient rome, and is doing everything a communist does.

But in one thing you are right my friend, this could not be called communism, this is to dumb to be called that. And something else, this statement is also right:
"It is Venezuela's elites who are thieves, thieves who have thrived off of the exploitation of Venezuelan workers and the country's national oil patrimony, while most of the country lives in poverty."

And Venezuela´s elites are now the chavistas, the ones that have Mercedes Benz, BMW´s, boats, private planes. The ones that uses the national treasury to pay people to march.

Continue talking about your so-called "social reform" while Chavez destroys the country. Continue talking about "capitalism with a face" while Chavez does nothing to ease the hunger, the people´s hunger. As you say before, rich people have enough money to go through this without any pain or suffering. In the meantime, while Chavez goes to Brazil with a bunch of his OWN 2000 people crowd to cheer him up, people here does not have anything to eat.
And you, connecting to the Internet at working hours, claiming to be a "poor", dominated worker, chained in that plantation while the master rests peacefully on his mansion.
You are nothing but someone that need to pay a visit to a psiquiatrist, so he can manage your inferiority complex.

And again, don´t say that the violence and social conflict are the sons of "our retrograde beliefs". Those are the goals of the "bolivarian revolution", not mines.

Poor Simon Bolivar, fight all his life to libetare the continent and in his name his own country is becoming an slave again.

Good bye my friend, I hope some day we could discuss our differences peacefully, without fear of revenge.