To jk (the guy waxing about pi):

Infinite length, non-repeating digits does not imply "all possible sequences". Example: the number 0.101001000100001000001....

A quite finite number of monkeys eventually produced Shakespeare himself.

This shows a complete lack of understanding by the people who organized the experiment.

"Infinite monkeys" is a little different from six monkeys for one month. Anyone who actually thought that anything significant would emerge from six monkeys for one month has no knowledge of statistics. Maybe six thousand monkeys for six thousand years.

This reminds me of the arguments against evolution, when people do studies involving a handful of generations. You just can't get anything to happen in that short a time - but give it millions of generations...

"A planet where apes evolved from men?"

Something that blows my mind whenever I think about it:

Neon is a completely renewable resource. Other than some of the stuff that goes into the transformers, neon tubing (and the gas within) is 100% recyclable and never wears out. Ever. If the tube breaks, the neon escapes, so then you make a new tube and pull some more neon from the atmosphere, and there you go; the cycle of neon contiues.

Sorry to get soooo off topic; I've had too much coffee today.

Actually, that headline should be "A particular finite number of monkeys didn't produce Shakespeare in a particular finite period of time." Which doesn't say all that much about how many monkeys and time it _would_ take to produce the works of Shakespeare; it just proves a lower bound. Kind of like saying "I've proved Fermat's theorem for n=2, 3, and 4, therefor it's true."

Something that blows my mind whenever I think about it:

Pi is an irrational number; it is infinite, and its digit sequences are non-repeating. Therefore, contained within Pi is every combination of every length of numbers approaching infinity.

So if you select an arbitrary system for encoding base-10 digits to, say, ASCII characters, then contained within Pi is every combination of every length of letters (and therefore words) approaching infinity.

Contained within Pi is this message, a 1,000 page discourse on the merits of leg waxing, and the combined works of William Shakespeare. As well as a variation of The Tempest where Caliban turns out to be a cross-dressing lounge singer.

Pi is the ultimate in infinite monkey simulations.

This story was also in The Guardian today (UK newspaper), here's the link http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,952227,00.html, the print version also has a good picture. It's clear that the monkeys are using a Mac running OS X. Make what you will of that...

Edited by author 05-09-2003 05:05 PM
"The problem is that you need an infinite number of monkeys..."

Which, in turn, generates an infinite amount of poop... Which, to me, sounds like the real issue here.

Well, of course crested black macaques can't write. What were they thinking? Everyone knows crested black macaques are hacks.

Now, you get some white lipped tamarins or some snow monkeys and you've got yourself some first-class literary talent.

At least the monkeys' typing was more intelligent than Glenn Reynolds'.

The problem is that you need an infinite number of monkeys...

AHAHAHAHAHHAHAH!

Higgins!!!!

They may not do Shakespeare, but the monkeys looked well on their way to another Dean Koontz best seller.

Who's to say that the patterns of "defecating and urinating all over the keyboard" weren't, in monkey-speak, "to be or not to be?"

Quick recap: Monkeys: Obsessed with Poop. People: 98% the same as monkeys, DNA-wise. This Study: Mostly Poop. Findings: Some things never change!

Edited by author 05-09-2003 03:24 PM
Actually this experiment has been done before.10,000 monkeys randomly hitting keys will create an open source browser.

"Another thing they were interested in was in defecating and urinating all over the keyboard," added Phillips, who runs the university's Institute of Digital Arts and Technologies.

apparently Perl programmer

Edited by author 05-09-2003 02:48 PM
my thoughts exactly, toast.

no, see, the monkeys were really trying to communicate via a tapping code; it really was s...sss...s...s...s...sss...ssss...ss Which is, decoded, 'to be or not to be'. So you see they were making a pretty good go of it, all things consitered. Just because we didn't record the right input, and just assumed that 'ssssssssss' wasn't 's...sss...ss...sss' is a error on our part.

"s," huh? Sounds like they were all left-handed.

Six monkeys, one word processor, one month- actually I think they did pretty well just to produce a few differrent letters considering the sample size. If this really proved that (a large number, say googolplex) monkeys couldn't write a Shakespeare play in billions of years, wouldn't that mean that the origin of life could never happen without a miracle given that a self reproducing organism could never arise by chance.

I am reminded of Three Dead Troll's bit on a large but finite number of monkeys.

http://artists.mp3s.com/artist_song/397/397774.html

"The work was interesting but had little scientific value, except to show that the 'infinite monkey' theory is flawed."

Is this a joke? The "infinite monkey" theory doesn't really have anything to do with monkeys. It's probability.