Yeah, lynn, my fingrs (and my brain) are getting majorly tired too!!! :-)

Bernie, can you click RELOAD in the chat window? perhaps that will help?

Bernie -- in the chat room, in your browser, please hit Reload.

... or return in a new browser window to http://www.samizdat.com/chat.html and open Richard's chat area _de novo_ ...?

I am adding a general comment.

So I need Word 2000 and not '97 to work with QT on my computer? Dang :|

I'm taking interest in this, and will explore further. Thanks :)

Bernie Slepkov
mailto:bernies@mergetel.com

P.S. Sorry I missed the onlinefaciliation demo chat. Bad timing in meeting a dear, old school chum - huh.

Hi Bernie -- welcome aboard! :-) AFAIK, MSWord2000's the first Word from Redmond that allows saving in .HTM format. I surmise (haven't asked Steve) that any word processor (maybe even WordPerfect) that can save a document into HTML would be a candidate for having its output disseminated in and reviewed in QTDR. (It only "eats" HTML)

Any experiments would be welcome of course! :-)

Edited by author 10-15-2001 03:57 PM
Word 97 allows saving as HTML, but the HTML in Word 2000 is much better-formed. But please don't wait for a Word upgrade to give it a try -- it does work. QT doesn't care where the HTML came from.

Tnx Steve! :)

Edited by author 10-16-2001 07:27 AM
Thanks Dan for the warm welcome.

I wish I had known of QT when I started my http://www.newciv.org/c4c articles. However, it is never too late, and since I hard code these articles directly into HTML, I'm sure there is a work-around. I would be interested in planning on using QT for my next article - if I ever do get down to writing it ;)

Either way, I am currently making plans with a local Community developer/techie for initiating an online, grassroots undertaking and I see a role for integrating the QT model. Since she already does have the server hardware and software resources for collaborative projects, I am interested in knowing costs if we wanted to use QT directly from her servers.

Currently, I am considering the feasibilty of my articles being stepoffs to voicing public opinions, but since we are looking at surveys/polls as being an important part of our plans, would it be possible to add icons for those purposes?

FYI - once I have a reasonable faximilie (spell???) of an article, I will sign on and ...

My newly reinstalled version of office 97 includes the HTML conversion, although I may still just hard code it, as I do with all my HTML. Just give me some time to flesh out more of the article currently underway.

At 02:19 PM 10/18/2001, you wrote:
>My newly reinstalled version of office 97 includes the HTML
>conversion, although I may still just hard code it, as I do with
>all my HTML.

Though it'd be interesting to see how Office97's HTML mixes with QTDR, I (for one) am more interested in seeing how your own plain HTML code does, if that's your style. FWIW I often use XMetaL (from SoftQuad) to write for the web off-the-top-of-the-head. I'll go for a power-tool over hand-coding anytime. XMetaL has a super WYSIWYG mode, you can look at the raw code, there's an intermediate tagged view. The code automagically prettyprints -- which is way cool and makes me look more organized than I really am. :-) The code's always valid WRT whatever DTD you choose, and I usually go with the "HTML-loose" one. Works a treat. Not cheap (couple hundred bucks as I recall) but it's worked for me for at least 3 years now, no worries. FWIW.

Thanks for your interest Dan.

I have been experimenting with Javascript driven pages, actually. (Can't afford any programs, else DreamWeaver would be my first pick - then I'd enhance the code.) My most recent http://www.mergetel.com/dreamteams/smartquotes.html finally seems to be working for both IE & Netscape.

However, my Catalyst 4 Change articles at http://www.newciv.org/c4c are all hardcoded for Cascading Style Sheets. Guess I've just gotten into the habit of hard coding.

Edited by author 10-21-2001 09:36 AM
Well Dan, I have started a Topic - Thought Provoking Action - at http://www.quicktopic.com/10/D/yykSmrnVa9Emx.html

Originally, I had thought that my QT url would have been http://www.quicktopic.com/10/H/UNChq28SrC9Kw but when I tried reloading the Review Document (or whatever it was) I ended up with a new QT address.

I drafted the article in Word 97, saved in HTML but edited the coding, and uploaded it. But after the upload, I had exited, and whenever I return to the article, all I see is that initializing screen that says:
[Only you, the topic creator, will see this intro message.]
Here's your new discussion page. Click "Post a new message" to replace these quick instructions with your own topic introduction. ... etc.

As a result of playing around, it would seem that I succeeded at starting a second topic, with the exact wording and now should technically have two identical topics, yet only one with the article ... somewhere. :\

Hi Bernie!

First off, might I suggest that we transfer our discussion of your questions/issues with QT/QTDR to Richard Seltzer's "Business on the web" topic, which is (a) where we "met" and also (b) a "vanilla Topic" rather than a QTDR. If we conduct our "conversation" there, what we say will be easier to follow (imho) rather than built atop a single paragraph in the demo-doc QTDR. Hope this is OK by you.

I have no problems seeing your "Thought Provoking Action" doc at http://www.quicktopic.com/10/D/yykSmrnVa9Emx.html . It looks (and reads!) good. I just Subscribed to that QTDR, put in a couple of test comments, and that all works fine. I don't exactly follow the sequence of events you described ("after the upload, I had exited,") but I don't think it's a cause for concern. Storage costs on the QT server are covered by QT's author, Steve Yost. Yes, there might be an "orphaned version" of your uploaded doc up there somewheres, but it's virtually impossible that it would be found randomly. And any successful upload has always resulted in a useable URL, so if you don't see one, it probably means that there's only one working QTDR up there, which is the one I commented on.

Say Bernie, there's a guy you should meet (and maybe invite into your "Thought Provoking Actions" QTDR). His name's Seth Itzkan. He and I worked for BBN (Bolt Beranek & Newman Inc., the birthplace of the internet) though at different times. We both belong to the 'xbbn' distro list. He's also a self-styled futurist and I enjoy his writings (which he regularly flags to the xbbn email-list). He recently distributed a pointer to his latest imho excellent and moving essay, "Visionary Vermont," which also deals with post-Sept-11^th issues. I won't redistribute the pointer; that's his to do of course. But his email is sitzkan@planet-tech.com .

If there's anything more I can do by way of coaching in the whys and wherefores of QT/QTDR, I will be happy to do so (modulo available time; gimme a day or so:-) -- and I hope to see ya over in Richard Seltzer's "Business on the web" topic!

(I'll repost this same text there, for continuity's sake)

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