>>The name antichrist attributed to Sai Baba smacks of
anti-hindu propaganda.>>

It is a term used in the West and beyond which signifies that a powerful agency has usurped a Godly manifestation. I think that your point about Shirdi Sai Baba is, however, worth considering. Surely, it would be better to put Sathya Sai Baba, Anti-Christ? At the same time, you need to realize that Sathya Sai Baba is famous in the West, whereas, except (mostly) among Non-Resident Indians.

>>This is a friendly way of approaching you, to do the needful>>

In it indeed a 'friendly way? Yet a few lines further on, you say ??We are initially, responding to complaints received<< Sir, this notion of 'initially' would be questioned. Is it a dimly veiled threat that if your requests are not met, you will take action that is, inf fact, NOT FRIENDLY. Please be clear about this, and tell me - do you intend, if your requests are unmet, becoming unfriendly, and engaging in activity inimical to Quick Topic or the individuals you address?

You list of questions to Mr Sampath reveal a spurious appeal to authority. In examining the truth or falsity of a proposition, the truth can be dangerously obscured by this fallacy. Although the credentials of a witness can have bearing, other forms of evidence need to be scrutinized.

Your other mistake is that you have not done your homework. If you had, you would realize that Mr Sampath is exeedingly far from being the only person to questiion the status of Sathya Sai Baba. Increasinly many persons - both of leading rank in his worldwide organization and of rank and file, both Hindu and non-Hindu - are appaloled at the strong evidence of seriously criminal actions by Sathya Sai Baba, most notably sexually molesing MANY boys and young men. The affidavits and other evidence is in process of being submitted to Interpol, national police forces, the U.N., and a number of foreign ministries. Hindus and no-Hindus are the alleging victims.

Your cry of 'anti-Hindu' will not work here. Pedophilia is anti-Hindu. Covering up and thwarting legitimate police investigations in the 1993 killings at Puttaparthi is anti-Hindu. Slandering the many good people who are now former devotees of Sathya Sai Baba, as the Indian Prime Minister and other pre-eminent devotees of Sathya Sai Baba have done may well be deeme ant-Hindu - or are they simply guilty of anti-homework, like yourself?

A glory of Hinduism is that it can speak with many vocies. Yet it would seem that you arrogate to your association and Sathya Sai Baba some sort of role in manifesting Hindu purity. What, after all, is your own status? You do not tell us, but expect Mr Sampath to lengthily recite his own merits.

B. Kleer

>>The name antichrist attributed to Sai Baba smacks of
anti-hindu propaganda.>>
>>This is a friendly way of approaching you, to do the needful>>
The above message was written by Mr.Vikram Pandey


Your list of questions to Mr Sampath reveal a spurious appeal to authority. WHAT QUESTIONS?WHO ASKED?CAN YOU BE CLEAR B.KLEER.
Mr Sampath is exeedingly far from being the only person to questiion the status of Sathya Sai Baba.THAT IS NOT HOW HE PROJECTS HIMSELF?
Your cry of 'anti-Hindu' will not work here.IT IS ANTI HINDU.HIGHLY INFLAMMATORY.INCITING VERBAL VIOLENCE.DESPITE SHOWING THE AMBIGUITY OF THE TITLE.
investigations in the 1993 killings at Puttaparthi.B.Kleer,HOW DO YO KNOW WHAT HAS BEEN INVESTIGATED?HOW DO YOU KNOW WHETHER SATHYA SAI BABA HAS NOT GIVEN A STATEMENT TO THE POLICE?

but expect Mr Sampath to lengthily recite his own merits.WHAT LENGHTY MERITS DOES HARI SAMPATH HAVE?THIS QUESTIONS WAS ASKED BY SOMEONE ELSE.

I ASK YOU AS A NUETRAL OBSERVER IN THIS SATHYA SAI BABA CONTROVERSY,Who is this B.Kleer?When he has not clearly told here who he clearly is.Sampath is quiet capable of defending himself.Or does he need you B.Kleer?

I AM A AMERICAN CITIZEN.I AM A PROUD AMERICAN HINDU.THIS IS DISGUSTING TO ME AND MANY LIKE ME WHO FEEL OUR RELIGION IS BEING BASHED.WHAT IS THE CONNECTION BETWEEN SAI BABA AND JESUS CHRIST?SEARCH ENGINES DO BRING THIS TOPIC UP WHEN WE WANT TO LOOK UP SHIRDI SAI BABA?BUT THIS SITE DOES NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH SHIRDI SAI BABA.DO YOU UNDERSTAND.

Dear Anthony,

In the post by Nuetral 2604
06-27-2002 05:52 PM ET (US) the writer has lumped a quote from my immediately preceeding post with some other line and it looks as though Vikram Pandey is the author of both. This confusion is not the only problem. The remainder of the post is so confused, and also resorts to foul language.

May it be know that I shall be glad to respond to any post which is coherent and refrains from uncivil language.

B.Kleer

V.V.Reddy: Your stupid tricks of pretending to be civil and "leaving" this board while coming back under various idiotic IDs proves nothing to anybody except what a fool you are.

Furthermore your allegations against Srila Prabhupada etc are not only offensive, but totally irrelevant to the purpose of this board and serves nothing except to malign and slander.

Grow up and get a life.

Sanjay

/m2575 Andries: 2575
 
>> Sanjay, both Shirdi Sai & Sathya Sai are not Gaudiya Vaishnava. They have founded their own movements. <<

Hi Andries,

I think I discussed this in more detail much earlier on this board, but I base my evidence on an exhaustive study of deviant Gaudiya Vaishnava movements in Bengal, extracts of which are available online at: http://www.iskcon.net/milkocean/index.html . Click on the milk drop next to "Philosophy" and then select the essay entitled "Apasampradayas." After doing this, click on the link to go directly to the description of "Aula, baula, sani (sain) and daravesa" and read away. It makes little difference whether they find their own movements, as this is a characteristic of "forking out" that happens in other religions too, such as Christianity etc.

>> According to the Shri Sai Sathcharita (Bible of Shirdi Sai devotees) the name 'Sai' was given to the young fakir <<

Yes I know, but where did Mhalsapati get the idea to address him as "Sai"? Was it his own word, or was it a type of people already known? Based on the evidence of the above-mentioned study, I would be inclined to believe the latter.

>> Antonio Rigopoulos academic book about Shirdi Sai Baba the name 'Sai' is an old Persian name for saint. <<

Yes I know, "Sai" or "Sain" is also a cultural term among North Indians to address each other, especially among Sindhis like myself. Even today when I hang around with "old school" Sindhis, I am always addressed by the as 'Sanjay Sain, how are you?' and similar things. Since Sindh has an extensive Sufi/Islamic/Persian background and much of Sindhi culture incorporates Sufi elements, it is not at all surprising how a word like "Sai" would creep into India. And as the article shows, it became a term for wandering Sufis. This is probably the reason why Mhalsapati addressed Shirdi Baba as "Sai", probably because he thought he was one of them?

Sanjay

Just to make it easier for people on this board, allow me to copy and paste the relevant extracts from the study:

"The word sani comes from svami. This group is more commonly known as the sain. They are mendicants who wander about without following any rigid path, having supposedly renounced all external designations. Shirdi Sai Baba is a rather well-known example of this type; followers of the famous Satya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi in Andra Pradesh claim that he is the same Shirdi Sai reincarnated."

Now we all know that Shirdi Sai fits the description of a "wandering mendicant," however the reincarnation issue is under debate for the moment, even though I am inclined to believe it. Also, I remember reading from Howard Murphet's books how he had traced the name as Shah-Shahi-Sahi-Sai, which clearly denotes Islamic influence?

"They often keep long hair in a bun on top of their heads and wear the gown of a Muslim fakir with Shaivite rudraksa beads, the glass worry-beads of a Muslim, and the tilak and japa-mala of a vaishnava, all simultaneously. They are usually bearded, and carry a shoulder bag, a bamboo walking cane and a fisti (pot made from a big coconut). They use hashish liberally for 'self-control.'"

Apart from the obvious differences, we can note the similarities of the fakir's gown, beard, shoulder bag, bamboo stick and chillum-smoking. Is Shirdi Sai reported to have ever used some sort of japamala I wonder?

"The sains are the freebooters of this tradition. They are supposedly liberated from all material conceptions, and thus may appear in any kind of dress (Hindu sannyasi or Muslim fakir) or no dress at all. They are so much beyond the grip of illusion that they may drink wine or eat human flesh as expressions of their high awareness. The common people superstitiously think sains to be powerful healers, for many Sains maintain themselves by distributing mysterious medicines and cures."

The references to "Hindu sannyasi" and "Muslim fakir" may be a reference to Sathya's orange robe and Shirdi's gown? Of course we all know about Shirdi's meat-eating practices, though it may be unknown for Sathya, although a prominent Indian guru once stated that Sathya Sai is a drunkard. And the healing powers are documented of both.

/m2575 :

>> 2. Shirdi Sai did sadhana <<

I am currently reading a rather exhaustive study of Shirdi Sai's Islamic influences. It's a relatively new book [1] that for probably the first time ever in the history of Shirdi literature, comprehensively analyses Shirdi Baba from an Islamic viewpoint. It's absolutely fascinating! And it also confirms a lot of things that I have always thought about Shirdi Sai. Anyway, so the study (by a devotee of Sathya, interestingly enough) makes it quite clear that Shirdi Baba did undergo an extensive period of sadhana under Sufi lines before he finally "blossomed" into enlightenment. If we believe the theory that Sathya is a reincarnation, he wouldn't "need" to perform any sadhana as he has already been "enlightened." Of course this is all from an academic viewpoint and doesn't take into account the evidence of sexual molestation, I agree.

>> 3. Shirdi Sai always said 'Allah Malik' God is King. Sathya Sai said that he was God. <<

Well Shirdi baba did state numerous times on record that he was God, unequivocally. So as far as I know, both the Babas have the same "I-am-God" diseased state of mind.

6. Shirdi Sai appealed to both Muslims and Hindus. He had habits of both a Muslim and a Hindu.

I really recommend reading that above mentioned bok on Amazon for everyone who is interested in Shirdi Sai. For the first time, Shirdi Sai (and his activities, sayings, etc) have been viewed from an Islamic viewpoint. Many things that were considered 'confusing' are immediately cleared up with even a basic understanding of Sufism, which the author proves Shirdi to be. Absolutely fascinating. And the book also includes the first English translation of the famous Abdul Baba's notebook. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that Shirdi Baba ws actually a Muslim who preached religious tolerance between Hindus and Muslims, rather than the other way around (Hindu, preaching tolerance to Muslms) as is popularly thought.

>> 7. And above all there is no indication that Shirdi Sai was ever engaged in sleight of hand or sexual abuse of his devotees. <<

I wouldn't know about sleight-of-hand, but there are plenty of recorded incidents about how Shirdi used to physically beat his devotees. Perhaps this is not sexual, but it is still abuse nevertheless?

Sanjay

Edited by author 06-27-2002 09:29 PM
/m2604

To "neutral"

>> AM A AMERICAN CITIZEN.I AM A PROUD AMERICAN HINDU.THIS IS DISGUSTING TO ME AND MANY LIKE ME WHO FEEL OUR RELIGION IS BEING BASHED<<

Where is Hinduism being bashed ?? It is "Sathya" Sai Baba who is being exposed for fraud and pedophilia . "sathya" Sai Baba IS NOT EQUAL TO HINDUISM.

As for search engines bringing up Sai Baba ( Sathya and Shirdi), this was the very reason I named my site specifically www.sathyasaivictims.com, so that everyone knows which is the Sai baba I am referring to.

Hari Sampath

Edited by author 06-27-2002 10:34 PM
How long will it take Anthony Thomas to Change the topic to "sathya sai baba - anti christ"?I think we all know what exactly he is upto .

" sai baba - anti christ " to the majority of English speaking in the world,it translates into something horrible and abominable or just the opposite of what Christ preached and lived for.

Yes, that is what I mean. You got it right!

In what way is Shirdi Sai Baba involved here?I fail to see the logic and am amazed at the arrogance of Anthony Thomas.Adding salt to the wound he says he is aware of Universal Consciousness.

" sai baba - anti christ " to the majority of English speaking in the world,it translates into something horrible and abominable or just the opposite of what Christ preached and lived for.

Yes, that is what I mean. You got it right!

In what way is Shirdi Sai Baba involved here?I fail to see the logic and am amazed at the arrogance of Anthony Thomas.Adding salt to the wound he says I am not a part of any religion. I believe there is one Universal Consciousness/Creator/ and that we all share this life force. If anyone is in such a realised state of mind,do you honestly think,he would be hanging around and moderating a Sai Baba club?

Its anti-hindu.VHP abroad will take this issue.If Anthony Thomas is not part of any religion,then what is hanging around sai baba or anti christ.What hypocracy?
 Hari Sampath:

"sathya" Sai Baba IS NOT EQUAL TO HINDUISM.

Neither is Shri Jayendra Saraswathi,Shankaracharya Of Kanchi or whatever Sri Vaishanava Sect that you belong to.

/m2612

>>Its anti-hindu.VHP abroad will take this issue.<<

How is being anti Sathya Sai Baba automatically translate as "anti Hindu" ??

If the pedophilia of Catholic priests is opposed, does it mean it is against "Christianity" ?

VHP will NOT take up this issue as an "anti Hindu" issue, because they have been advised well enough by those who matter that it is not a wise thing to appear "supportive" of Sai Baba.

>>Neither is Shri Jayendra Saraswathi,Shankaracharya Of Kanchi or whatever Sri Vaishanava Sect that you belong to.<<

Both the Vishwa Hindu Parishad as well as the Indian Govt happen to think that Sri Jayendra Saraswathi Shankaracharya is representative of Hindus in India. This is obvious from the fact that PM Vajpayee ( despite being a "follower" of Sai Baba) has made The Shankaracharya the official representative of the Indian Govt in dealing with the highly controversial Ram temple issue in Ayodhya. This is only because Sri Jayendra Saraswathi is widely acknowledged in India as the leading Hindu Religious leader.

see this

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/2002/06...002062703860100.htm

As to whatever Vaishnavite group I belong to, according to you, neither me nor my affiliation is relevant here.

Hari Sampath

Who is topping the moderator of this topic from naming it "sathya sai baba -anti christ"?

Unnecessarily Shirdi Sai Baba name is getting tarnished in this controversy.

Again we are going to ahead with our cause and stop this Hindu Bashing thru back door.

As for pedophilia,your case has been referred to lower court,from Supreme Court Of India,if i am right.

So,your pedophilia case too,is hanging in limbo.But,then seeing the company you keep,its no wonder you lost the case.

What is a sri vaishnava like you hanging around a shaivaite shankaracharya?There is something fishy here too?Vaishnavas hate shaivaites.

Vishwa Hindu Parishad as well as the Indian Govt happen to consult Sathya Sai Baba too.I will look into a proper connection for you to look it up,as i do not have it with me here now.

The abuse have been going in your churches.Not in Hindu ashrams.

Has Anthony Thomas started a topic with christian priests pedophilia.

Have you at least done that.Your case has been subjected to scrutiny and referred to lower court.Why you have not filed it in the lower court so far.One year has passed you are still hanging here.

Sathya Sai Baba should be treated as innocent until you prove him to be gulity thru your courts.

Your website could contain doctored videos,after all you need a good film makers camera tricks technology to be used.You can create as many illusions you want.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/2002/06...002062703860100.htm

The Kanchi Sankaracharya, Jayendra Saraswati, who met the Prime Minister, Atal Behari Vajpayee, and the Vice-President, Krishan Kant, today asserted that he would continue with his *independent* initiative to try and find a solution to the Ayodhya problem that would be agreeable to both the parties involved.

The Acharya made known his views through two separate interviews, one given to a news agency and another to a magazine, which is the RSS mouthpiece.

He was not too worried about the recent statement by the *VHP that it would not accept a judicial verdict on the Ram temple issue, which is a matter of faith*. "That is their view, and there is nothing to be apprehensive about,'' he was reported as having said. Equally, he was of the view that the last time he attempted mediation, the All-India Muslim Personal Law Board had not totally rejected his efforts.



How can independent initiative be construed that the Indian Govt has appointed Jayendra Saraswathi?

*VHP that it would not accept a judicial verdict on the Ram temple issue, which is a matter of faith*. Can you not understand the VHP view from this.Are you blind or cannot understand english or both?

Dont come here and tell all lies to us.You have lied enough to us.

/m2550
...not worth the effort?

Can we stop this nonsense about the other Baba, the politicians and other godmen and concentrate on the main issue? I think the spammers win if we entertain them too long.

If anyone wants to take a shot at my posting, go ahead. I will not respond in kind. As long as the discussions stay with discussing the merits of the main topic, I will be happy.

/m2614

>>Unnecessarily Shirdi Sai Baba name is getting tarnished in this controversy<<

Yes... but Puttaparthi Raju is wholly responsible for this... perhaps you should address your concern to him, and ask him to drop the Sai Baba name which he usurped.

>>Again we are going to ahead with our cause and stop this Hindu Bashing thru back door<<

You first show how Sathya Sai Baba expose is against Hinduism . BTW... who is "we"....???

>>As for pedophilia,your case has been referred to lower court,from Supreme Court Of India,if i am right.
So,your pedophilia case too,is hanging in limbo.But,then seeing the company you keep,its no wonder you lost the case.<<

You seem to be terribly confused and contradicting yourself... as the Highest court has referred the case against Sai Baba to another appropriate court , how is the case in limbo ?? Further , how absurd of you to suggest the case is "lost"... when I have not filed it in that court yet ??

>>What is a sri vaishnava like you hanging around a shaivaite shankaracharya?There is something fishy here too?Vaishnavas hate shaivaites.<<

What's fishy ?? Kanchi Shankaracharya has been close to me since the age of 7.. I studied in his school. Vaishnavas hate Shaivites ?? LOL !! Even Adi Shankara composed the most beautiful song "Bhaja Govindam", and all Shankaracharyas say "Narayana" at all times !! BTW, Sri Vaishnavas do not hate anyone( including Sai Baba).. but certainly pedophilia will be hated, as is fraud.

>>Vishwa Hindu Parishad as well as the Indian Govt happen to consult Sathya Sai Baba too.I will look into a proper connection for you to look it up,as i do not have it with me here now<<

Wrong....VHP leader Ashok Singhal has visited SB a couple of times, and it is only PM Vajpayee who is a "follower". If VHP and Indian Govt "consult" Sai Baba , how come there is no mention of Sai Baba in ANY national issue ?

>>The abuse have been going in your churches.Not in Hindu ashrams.<<

What "your churches" ?? Pedophilia has been happening in the Ctholic church, and most of the Western world ( including the Pope) have condemned it. Pedophilia has been going on in Puttaparthi, by Sai Baba ( but certainly it is not a Hindu Ashram, as SB himself doesn't say so)

>>Has Anthony Thomas started a topic with christian priests pedophilia.<<

You start one, I shall promote the topic along with Sai Baba's pedophilia.

>>Have you at least done that.Your case has been subjected to scrutiny and referred to lower court.Why you have not filed it in the lower court so far.One year has passed you are still hanging here.>>

I have my reasons for waiting.... have explained it many times before.Gathering more iron clad evidence.

>>Sathya Sai Baba should be treated as innocent until you prove him to be gulity thru your courts.<<

Sure the Courts treat him as innocent till proven guilty, but individuals are entitled to their own opinions.

By the way... shouldn't you be applying this same logic to say "Sai Baba's so called miracles have to be treated as tricks till he proves them scientifically in the laboratory" ??

>>Your website could contain doctored videos,after all you need a good film makers camera tricks technology to be used.You can create as many illusions you want.<<

Till you prove the above charge, I should be treated as innocent... which means till you prove otherwise, the videos are 100 % genuine, and as a consequence Sai Baba 100 % a fraud :-)

Hari Sampath

/m2615

>>How can independent initiative be construed that the Indian Govt has appointed Jayendra Saraswathi?<<

PM Vajpayee and the Govt of India requested him to mediate on behalf of the Govt, in March 2002. The talks broke down then. Now he is continuing it himself, on being requested by the PM Vajpayee informally. He is still a Govt and Hindu community emissary, but as a religious leader, he is NOT a Govt "official", paid by the Govt.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/2002/03...002030603000100.htm


Anyway.... forget all this VHP-India-Hindu stuff..... discuss Sai Baba if you can, or beat it.

Hari Sampath

/m2616

>>not worth the effort?<<

Hostile witnesses are not a very good proposition legally, especially if they happen to be minors. My personal preference is to keep away from hostile witnesses in the Sai Baba case.

However, I am open to the idea if it involves a "major" now.... in fact, such hostile witnesses can even be persuaded to testify against Sai Baba in a straighforward sense. Let me know if there is any such person, I shall talk to him.

Thank you,

Hari Sampath

/m2620 - there was this guy who claimed have been cured of indigestion after being massaged on his testicles with some paste....of course he bolted when you called his bluff about his current whereabouts.

"sai observer" or is it Nueral Observer" or is it "Sherlock Holmes"

2577-sai observer

Most people here have "got the picture" unfortunately you haven't! ie,. sathya sai baba has apparently got a ferocious appetite for sex with boys, youths( some in fact going to his schools) and young adult males.

2583-Sherlock Holmes
You make a terrible detective! more terrible than the police that supposed to have investigated sathya sai baba's murder attempt. Maybe you did help with the 1993 murder case!? Please, do not go to Australia to solve crimes!!!....infact don't go to any country to solve crimes!!
 

Any normal person wanting truth and justice and connecting this with Shirdi is beyond beleaf. I take it you, "sai observer" and "Nueral Observer" and "Nueral" and "Sherlok Holms" and the "150 messages? after" are not quite normal it seems!? Perhaps ssb should have rubbed a little harder with vibuthi onto your genitals!? You would write a lot of more dribble than you have already and more to come I am sure.

Hari, have you seen that big new book published by Sai Towers, LOVE IS MY FORM?? Brian Steel has pointed out that there is plenty of information in that book to sink numerous claims made by sb in his discourses. (Such as the false birth date of Nov 23, 1926) Just wondering if you have seen the book?

Re 2614 Re....... after all you need a good film makers camera tricks technology to be used. You can create as many illusions you want.

I think you will find it is 'sb' that creates as many illusions as he wants.


Re 2618 and 2619 To Hari Thanks for dealing with the points so well.

It is true that we can easily be tied up in answering stupid accusations of the name to use for 'sb', and attacks on religion and similarities of abuse by Catholic priests. Yes, we know some priests harm boys. However, this particular board is solely to do with the activities of 'sb'.

If people wish to pursue attacks on Hari Krishna's, Catholic priests, other gurus, then please start your own board.

Does 'sb' really have this much hair at his age? Has any of the victims talked about it?

"dribble" it sure is!?!

Edited by author 06-28-2002 05:06 AM
/m2608 /m2575
from http://www.iskcon.net/milkocean/index.html pressing 'philosophy':
>>The word sani comes from svami. This group is more commonly known as the sain. <<
Clearly Iskcon's etymology regarding 'Sai' differs from that as provided by Antonio Rigopoulos who said that 'Sai' comes from Persian. In contrast 'Swami' is of Sankrit origin.

>>They are mendicants who wander about without following any rigid path, having supposedly renounced all external designations. Shirdi Sai Baba is a rather well-known example of this type; <<

Well, Sathya Sai is neither wandering nor a mendicant. And Shirdi Sai was not wandering.

Sorry Sanjay, but I really think not everything can be understood with ISKCON's philosophical framework. Reality is more complex than that.

Your website could contain doctored videos,after all you need a good film makers camera tricks technology to be used.You can create as many illusions you want.<<

Till you prove the above charge, I should be treated as innocent... which means till you prove otherwise, the videos are 100 % genuine, and as a consequence Sai Baba 100 % a fraud <<

Obviously you have uploaded clips from videos,who have visited Prashanthi Nilayam.These video tapes can be altered.Any person versatile in video making will teach you the editing methods.Your crdedibility got shot down after you accepted that on 8 May 2001 the supreme court in india gave you a ruling to find justice thru a high court in india.But in any of your conversations here and elsewhere you have never told this, Glaring example of it is your website.

Instead you are resorting to usual replying methods,which unfortunately is not credible enough.I believed you and your expose group.But now with all these recent happenings here,i am forced to give P S B,a chance,and think maybe the victims are NOT victims in the first place,and i have let myself be fooled by these internet campaign,and other such media campaigns.

Till reliable agency either in india or abroad conclusively prove P S B as fraud,molester i will rely on my own instincts and believe P S B is telling the truth.After all i have been to Prashanthi Nilayam,seen the whole astounding events,and what has been done to transform people and place.I rest my case.

thomas,why is it difficult for you to change your topic to sathya sai baba - anti christ.i think many of the spammers will leave you and your topic alone.

I asked the Shirdi people - "What was this that Baba did?" They replied that as the Cholera Epidemic was spreading in the village and this was Baba's remedy against the same; it was not wheat that was ground but the Cholera itself was ground to pieces and pushed out of the village. From this time onward, the Cholera Epidemic subsided and the people of the village were happy. I was much pleased to know all this; but at the same time my curiosity was also aroused. I began to ask myself - What earthly connection was there between wheat flour and Cholera? What was the casual relation between the two? and how to reconcile them? The incident seems to be inexplicable.

/m2628

Perhaps you should take a look at:
http://www.exbaba.de/files/vid_lingam_2000.exe

Best wishes,

Alex

i did take a look.

best wishes.

how long does it take thomas to change this topic to sathya sai baba - anti christ when he is the moderator and there is provision for changing the topics name.you would win half the battle.

there is a spy ware when you visit your website url given here.my firewall protected my computer.my software allowed me to view without letting cookies being retrieved.this is for your information.hari sampath has already admitted some time back that he knows who is visiting and know their ip address.

To Hary Sampath;

It is better to be late than never...you belated announcement of your initial unsuccessful attempt with your 'SB EXPOSE EXPEDITION' is creditworthy of appreciation..at the same time it is a measure of your cunning and vindictive nature in having kept it lockd up in your disappointment locker..a tree is known by its fruits it brings out...pl. do some seva worthy of paying your krmic debt......a reminder to the casual tresspassers of this board....Hary or Hari is the second inline having been outcasted from the expedition.first one to admit was GLEN MELOY....not to speak of TONY O'CLEARY who went hiding into Australian wilderness..the 'countdown' has ONLY just begun.

Edited by author 06-28-2002 10:21 AM
>>how long does it take thomas to change this topic to sathya sai baba - anti christ when he is the moderator and there is provision for changing the topics name.you would win half the battle.<<

Why is this so important for you?
Does calling one "anti christ" makes him that?
Do you think that Shirdi Sai Baba is reduced or affected by that?

It is solely the decision of the administrator of this board to change or to keep the title of it. If you disagree with the administrator do so respectfully. Further, it is open to you to leave this board at any time.

Everyone's responsible for oneself's karma - so are you, so is Anthony Thomas, so are we all.

Thanks,

Alex

Why is this so important for you?

it is important.you do not know the power of shirdi sai baba.look what is happenning to sathya sai baba.i feel by being specific about the person that you discuss or want discredit,your objectives will be better served.there is a provision provided for moderators to change the name of topic.quick topic administration sent me a email about it and told me it is left solely to moderators.

Does calling one "anti christ" makes him that?
  this is silly way of arguing.instead of calling you by your name alex should people start to call pig in everyday life would you be happy and comfortable with that.maybe you are an exception to the rule.

Further, it is open to you to leave this board at any time.

i could counter your question by asking the moderator of this board to include only sathya in the beginning of the topic.i will leave this board.

Everyone's responsible for oneself's karma - so are you, so is Anthony Thomas, so are we all.

that realisation does not dawn to everybody.i could argue with you about karma itself.but this is not the place.its only ego which is preventing thomas from adding sathya in the begginning of the topic.he does not realise he is opening a pandoras box by letting devotees of shirdi sai baba opposing his objectives.that my friend will be the down fall.as you can see what sathya sai baba is undergoing in defaming the revered saint.

Anthony:

The 'sathya' should be added to the board-title. If I hadn't seen it being advertised as a 'expose' forum, I wouldn't have looked at it. Amongst many Indians (R,NR, and Abroad), and probably many Others, the label 'Sai Baba' has more than one conotation.

Correct Me if I am wrong, but doesn't SSB proclaim to be the Father of Christ? So, what is wrong with the 'anti-Christ?' question in the board-title? Is perhaps, SSB promoting anti-Hindu propoganada?

Sekharji

>Does 'sb' really have this much hair at his age? Has any of the victims talked about it?<

There is a photo somewhere from Baba, where you can see that hair is decreasing, it is growing thinner, you can see that clearly, but it is still black, he uses haircolors or something like that.

I will look for the photo...

Edited by author 06-28-2002 12:45 PM
SB's hair...hmmmm I saw him in 1997. He looked very old and his hair was very thin. I saw him again in 1999. He looked a lot younger and had thick black hair.

The vibes were good in 1997. Wonder if it's because sb's energy was low and the devotion of devotees was stronger. Vibes were bad in 1999. Because sb's influence was high??

It's often been said that sb dyes his hair with foreign hair dyes. Wonder if he also wears a wig sometimes? Someone told me recently that most of the photos in the sai mags are very old ones. There might be one current photo where he looks a lot older.

Has anyone been to PN lately? How does he look?

Edited by author 06-28-2002 12:52 PM
I don't think the board title can be changed once it's set. But I don't know for sure. For a new title, a new board might have to be started. Anthony Thomas switched boards once before.

I don't think the board title can be changed once it's set. But I don't know for sure. For a new title, a new board might have to be started. Anthony Thomas switched boards once before.

you are wrong.as a moderator of this topic tony can have access to options.one of the option available to tony is change of the topic .if he wishes he can add sathya in the beginning which could look like sathya sai baba - anti christ.

seharji i think with the above inclusion of sathya you must be satisfied that sathya sai baba will be thought as anti christ because he claims to be father of christ.it will be proper.shirdi sai baba devotees will heave a sigh of relief.

"Has anyone been to PN lately? How does he look?"message 2639.

Elementary my dear Watson,go to

http://www.srisathyasai.org.in

You will find latest videos,pictures.

http://www.sathyasai.org

No. The issue is: does advertising 'anti-Christ' or 'Father-of-Christ' become anti-Hindu propoganda? I neither gain nor lose satisfaction whether the board-title changes or not. In contrast, I and, probably, many Others would rest in Peace when the sufferings caused by SSB ends.

Anthony, I simply gave You My vote on the board-title. It is, of course, up to You. I am just suggesting that many of the offensive, contentious, and distracting posters may be silenced with such an action. And, Those with the legitimate concerns could go back to Their duties undisturbed.

SB is looking for a hair dresser..why don't you apply..???

When you are quoting words from someone else's post, please put quotations ("....")around the words or use >>>. Otherwise it isn't clear that those words aren't yours. Thanks.

Jag, clean up your language. This isn't the midnight porn board.

No. The issue is: does advertising 'anti-Christ' or 'Father-of-Christ' become anti-Hindu propoganda? I neither gain nor lose satisfaction whether the board-title changes or not. In contrast, I and, probably, many Others would rest in Peace when the sufferings caused by SSB ends.

christ is god for christians.for hindus christ is not their god.you surmise your own conclusion whether its anti or not.the issue is sai baba - anti christ.by adding sathya in the beginning it will become sathya sai baba - anti christ.the topic then becomes specific to the person impersonationg as shirdi sai baba in puttaparthi.even your reply SSB is very ambiguous.it could mean shirdi sai baba.and tony can change.he should not have his ego come in between this task.believe me shirdi sai baba devotees are pained by this.we are planning to give tony 24 hours notice.after that we will do whatever is provided within the frame work of law to change this topic.i mean it.the time for him starts from now.

from nueter the nuetral :
"investigations in the 1993 killings at Puttaparthi.B.Kleer,HOW
DO YO KNOW WHAT HAS BEEN INVESTIGATED?HOW DO YOU KNOW WHETHER
SATHYA SAI BABA HAS NOT GIVEN A STATEMENT TO THE POLICE?

 He has not. We know that. Do you have info pointing in the
contrary ? .. cmon show it! Dont bark in capitals like a rabid
dog."

I do have information that Sathya Sai Baba has indeed given statement signed to authorities with respect to 1993 matter.Everything is legally correctly done.

Point taken. In My posts, SSB stands for Sathya Sai Baba. Should I speak of Shirdi Sai Baba, I would properly acknowledge My respects thereof. The topic of change started with someOne representing some official status of Indian origin stating 'anti-Hindu.' I am of Indian origin and I don't take offense to the board-title containing 'anti-Christ.' Having said this, I did send My vote to Anthony, partly on behalf of Those who are disturbed, to change the 'Sai Baba' title to the 'Sathya Sai Baba' title. Did I not?

In any case, threatening someOne with actions isn't the way to go about requesting to respect and honor legitimate concerns addressing conotations. It may be that Anthony just innocently created the title without any malicious intent or forethought into what 'Sai Baba' really means and conotates. Give Him the chance to address it first. Then, if You disagree with His resolution, take whatever actions You believe are enforceable.

Strong arming is the kind of tactic that You would find in most cults. It is terrible, and should I seek to discover that it is of Your Guru's teachings? I'm pretty sure that Shirdi Sai Baba would not have condoned Your request to Anthony in that 'threatening' tone.

or Sai sooth...whoever you are.

/m2645

...of course you would know about it first....you couldn't fit even that role!

I am a mother first and a devotee of Swami next. When the allegations surfaced, I was naturally worried more about my toddler - what am I teaching him - than about my own possible disappointments.

However, I have followed the alleged expose and this board closely and have come to the conclusion that the expose itself is a possible fraud. All that goes on here is bickering and name calling....there is no real arguements on if Swami did anything that was alleged. You guys had your chance, and only exposed your cunningness, intolerance and above all, selfishness, not to mention deceit in hiding the Supreme Court's decision.

I will keep an open mind for my son, but am leaving this board after this weekend....unless you guys prove it is worth staying here.

sekharji anthony thomas has been told for more than a week about this misunderstanding.but he is not listening to our pleas.we are human.we are indians.we love shirdi sai baba.we dont want to threaten anybody.please ask him to add sathya.then topic become sathya sai baba - anti christ.shirdi devotees request is only that.we also want catch P.baba.we can pool our resources.but anthony should listen to voice of reason.we are not threatening anthony.but we will take whatever action provided under the law if he continue with this topic without listening.international justice is with our side.we can prove our case.

Dear SuloBala,
 
 I am humane first and a despiser of all god-men second.
 
 I understand you are torn between allegiance to your Swami
 and love for your son. I trust you possess enough discretion
 to weed out the loads of spam and the rantings of madmen who
 are in too deep in one side or the other.
 
 Please do understand that this is a discussion board and not
 somewhere you can look for any conclusive proof if that was what you came looking for. Here you will find opinions and points of view.
 Although I am in no way qualified to advice you on your parenting I would like to suggest that you teach your son the capability of teaching himself. Even if you think there is a 0.1% that the sex abuse allegations are true, do you think it wise to advice your son in the path of such a person ?
 
 It is plain that SSB is a trickster as far as the miracles are concerned. The videos prove it. Contrary to some inane spammers in the board, videos are not that easy to fake or modify. Photographs and jpegs are. Modifying a video to such a high level of resolution such that human eyes cannot detect foul play when running the movie frame by frame is not possible. I have programmed in 3D graphics applications and I am aware of all the tools present and what level of animation and video manipulation is possible. Im my eyes the videos on Hari's site and the ones on exbaba.com seem genuine. Others can always claim differently. But I trust if a trial happened the court would allow these videos. It has to be proven false by experts in the field clearly indicating the nature of foul play and by demonstrating by duplication that this kind of video maniputation is possible. If they did that, then the courts would have to disallow photographic material as evidence in any future case. ;-)
 The expose efforts will go on irrespective of the number and kind of people in this board or even the existence of such a board.
 SSB should be tried. If he comes clean, well and good. Everything can go back to normal again. If he doesn't, I think India would just realize that such gullibility can only lead to lot of possible irreparable damage.
 
 You are free to stay or leave the board, but I implore you to refrain from teaching your offspring the path of a questionable god.
 
 No true saint may live amidst gold,
 No truth may forever stay in fold,
 From no child may innocence be stolen,
 From demons in disguise as godmen old.

 Roshan

>> All that goes on here is bickering and name calling....
>> ... only exposed your cunningness, intolerance and above all, selfishness, not to mention deceit...

SuloBala:

Yes, You are quite correct. And, I too find it quite dismal. But, let Me state a few observations that may clarify why this happens for Your considerations. Many exDevotees and even close inner circle Devotees have a sort of silent competition going on. The objective is to extort SSB. A Devotee threatens to expose Him unless SSB silences Them with some material gain. Today, there are so many Extortionists, that SSB is letting most of Them go on telling stories without the reward for silence. It seems that the money supply is now getting low. So now, there are a whole lot of exDevotees attacking each Other to achieve the status as being the last One standing for SSB to deal with. There are even Imposters planted to help confuse and frighten the whisleblowers.

I enforce My claim for the previous statements to You in the following way. There is a Swamiji named 'Kaleshwara' somewhere near Banglore. He was a young Boy when SSB molested Him. He, however, brought a camera and took pictures of the activites without SSB knowing. Later, He extorted SSB and got $1 million dollars to start His own ashram. Go to Him in Banglore, and privately ask. He is quite open and honest about the whole matter. He may still even show You the pictures as He did to many Others.

Sekharji

I AM HERE. WHERE AM I GOING?

papa don't preach.i'm trouble free.papa don't preach.i'm keeping my baby.papa don't preach.i made up my mind,so.papa don't preach.

>>videos are not that easy to fake or modify. Photographs and jpegs are. Modifying a video to such a high level of resolution such that human eyes cannot detect foul play when running the movie frame by frame is not possible. I have programmed in 3D graphics applications and I am aware of all the tools present and what level of animation and video manipulation is possible. Im my eyes the videos on Hari's site and the ones on exbaba.com seem genuine<<

Sorry mate.It can be done.We are doing it.If you are interested you can contact the firm in San Francisco.They will show you also how to do it,if you want to learn.There are some far out people in Hollywood,whose expertise is fantastic,that they charge such high prices.My brother Rahman was trained and its is amazing what you can do to create such mind boggling fantasies.I dont want to say anything about Puttaparthi Baba now,as i am not sure about this expose fellows.They also cheat.That is all.Thank You Very Much.

where is your ashram in india?

Re: the title of this board. I believe that Anthony is considering a change. Please be patient. Westerners generally don't realize who Shirdi Sai was and that many of his followers don't like any association with the baba of Puttaparthi.

The Shirdi Sai web sites don't mention the baba who stole Shirdi Sai's title.

hurray we welcome that.thank you so much.

>>The Shirdi Sai web sites don't mention the baba who stole Shirdi Sai's title.<<

shirdi sai baba teachings forbid such controversial in official websites.but sansthan does not recongnise puttaparthi wheeling and dealing.but thank you very much anthony thomas.truly now see how victorious your fight will be.but hurry .do not delay.thank you so much.tears of joy are trickling down my cheeks.thank you thank you.

/m2627 Andries : 2627
 
>> Clearly Iskcon's etymology regarding 'Sai' differs from that as provided by Antonio Rigopoulos who said that 'Sai' comes from Persian. In contrast 'Swami' is of Sankrit origin. <<

Well we know that North India was subject to intense cross-culture due to the Muslim invasion, so it hardly surprising when we have a mixed-up origin about the words Swami and Sai. The word "sani" was used in Bengal as recently as 500 years ago, and over the year since then has corrupted into 'sain.' Add that to the Sufi entrance from Sindh, and we have Islamic syncretists.
Also, in some Shirdi literature (such as the words to Shirdi aartis, etc) sometimes replace the word "Sai" with "Sain", which suggests that the two words are synonymous. I have examples for the same.

>> Sorry Sanjay, but I really think not everything can be understood with ISKCON's philosophical framework. Reality is more complex than that. <<

Well it's not really a question of ISKCON, since the whole issue of "thirteen deviant lines" has been in existence ever since the origin of each line, and is a known controversial conundrum/issue among the scholars of North India.

I would like to know what you or other Shirdi Sai devotees (there seem to be plenty here all of a sudden) have to say about Shirdi Sai's meat-eating habits, beating of devotees and declaring himself to be God?

Although I must say that the book "Unravelling the Enigma" by Marianne Warren is truly fascinating when analysing Shirdi from the Sufi viewpoint. In one place, it is suggested that Shirdi Sai periodically declared his Godhood because of his sufi training and philosophy, the situation being similar to Mansur al-Hallaj who was martyred for declaring he was God under the influence of Sufi trances. My study of the Islamic Shirdi continues..

Sanjay

I think the people on this board are being absolutely ridiculous in their insistence and demands to change the topic of this baord to specify whether we are talking about Shirdi or Sathya.

First of all this is a rather private board.
Secondly, those who follow the discussion will soon realise that it is pretty OBVIOUS which SB we are talking about.
Thirdly, what nonsense about anti-Hindu propaganda!
Fourthly, get a life. :)

Personally, I don't care for EITHER Sai Baba because as far as I'M concerned, they are BOTH fake. Fake, in the sense that Shirdi Sai Baba is NOT God, as the propaganda portrays him to be based on his own utterances. Shirdi Sai said that he was God, he beat his own disciples and flew into wild rages for no reason, and cooked and ate meat, to name just THREE unfavourable qualities. But I am at least prepared to accept him as a MUSLIM saint at least from the Sufi viewpoint, although I must emphatically state his weirdness.

Sathya Sai is NOT God, for obvious reasons.

That's just the way it is.

Sanjay

Posts 2661 and 2663 have been deleted. If you have a worthwhile point to make, these may be reposted by you if you leave out all slanderous statements against members of the board and personal name calling.

SuloBala 2653 May I suggest you examine the exposure boards first. This is where all the material is contained that will enlighten you as to the truth about 'sb'.


Re the request to change the name of the board to include the word 'sathya'. I have no intention (as stated many times) to bring into disgrace any other guru, religion or philoshophy - other than the person who is known totally in the western world only by the name 'sai baba'.

I am informed that the meaning of the name 'sathya' is as follows:
Sathya is usually translated as truth or love. Sathyanarayana, literally translated as 'the true Supreme Being,'a name of Vishnu, sometimes used for Krishna. This was the birth name given to 'sb'.

Personally I have a reluctance to add any title or name that gives respect or worthiness or by subconscious implication causes people to obtain a different picture of him.

While obviously his devotees approve of this name wholeheartedly, I would like to ask the non-devotees on this board how they briefly feel about adding a name that represents 'truth and love'?

It is possible for me to change the title, without also changing the board url.

So the meaning of sathya is truth, but for sb it's associated with everything that's false. Maybe write it like this: 'sathya' sai baba. This suggests that satya isn't really truth.

It's only a word used for his name. I say put it on the board to make the Hindus happy. It's on the other board.

>>Sorry mate.It can be done.We are doing it.If you are interested you can contact the firm in San Francisco.They will show you also how to do it,if you want to learn.There are some far out people in Hollywood,whose expertise is fantastic,that they charge such high prices.<<

Don't make yourself ridiculous, sorry.
I own respectively have owned some official videos from the sai trust that clearly show the trickery as well.

I would be happy if people would investigate themselves instead of paranoically coming up with some conspiracy theories - but probably these people are paid by the sai trust - to apply the same logic.

Thanks,

Alex

/m2653

To SuloBala:

I can understand your inner strife but this board is surely not the place to come to a conclusion regarding the allegations.

Further, we don't have to prove anything to you - no offence intented.

If you have yur doubts try to contact some of the people having been devotees for decades and ask them why they have split up. Some of them are listed here: http://www.petitiononline.com/saibaba/

And, of course, you should read The Findings and the material on http://www.exbaba.com

Thanks,

Alex

Mr.Anthony Thomas Your message /m2666 ,is partially correct.Shirdi Sai Baba temples are in existence in US.I can give the URL for them,if you wish.But since you have acknowledged that you are amenable to change the topic to 'sathya sai baba - anti christ' as the discussion here pertains only to him.

Sathya means Truth.Most Indians have their name after various avatars of gods.This is the practise and tradition in India.I vote for a name change.This will end Shirdi Sai devotees joining against your protest and will enable you and others to see light at the end of the tunnel.

I am a Shirdi Sai Baba devotee for the last 40 years.Personally i will be ecstatic if you change your topic to 'sathya sai baba - anti christ'.

Regards

Thanking You.

Chandrasekhar Balasubramaniam

Professor MIT.USA.

>>Don't make yourself ridiculous, sorry.
I own respectively have owned some official videos from the sai trust that clearly show the trickery as well.<<

Correct me if i am wrong.The Sai trust videos of Sathya Sai Baba,have been selling videos which will make sathya sai baba as a trickster.this is a very very questionable thing.its like a church selling materials to defame,degrade,show jesus in poor light as trickster.try to make your explanations more plausible and believable.i dont buy this stupid reasoning.

i do agree with one of the poster that videos can be digitally altered.their are equipments available .i have made my own home videos.some of them are so real people will believe what they see.i can make copies from vhs videos tapes to cd and vice versa.technology is very adavanced if you know the techniques.

>>I would be happy if people would investigate themselves instead of paranoically coming up with some conspiracy theories - but probably these people are paid by the sai trust - to apply the same logic.<<

the above kind of reasoning works both sides.you could also be paid by someone or some organisation to conspire againt sathya sai.the alleged victims themselves may have been tutored,paid,and act to say ,write,against sathya sai.you or no one is above temptations.everybody has a price.

Edited by author 06-29-2002 10:02 AM
http://www.exbaba.de/files/vid_lingam_2000.exe

This file is originally from a Sai org video as (almost) all video files showing sb cheating. I have watched the original video tape myself as well as others showing the trickery - for instance the video tape "God lives in India" showing many instances of cheating by sb, since then it was removed from sale by the trust.

Thanks,

Alex

Sorry, the correct url is:
http://www.exbaba.de/files/vid_lingam_2000.exe

A file from the original 'God lives in India' video tape:
http://exbaba.de/files/vid_vibhuti_01.exe

For more information on the latter video: The Findings on http://www.exbaba.com

Best wishes,

Alex

>>Personally I have a reluctance to add any title or name that gives respect or worthiness or by subconscious implication causes people to obtain a different picture of him.

While obviously his devotees approve of this name wholeheartedly, I would like to ask the non-devotees on this board how they briefly feel about adding a name that represents 'truth and love'?

It is possible for me to change the title, without also changing the board url.<<

the respectability is already existing in sai baba.you or anybody cannot remove it.try to understand this first. mother means sai.father means baba.how respectable can one get more than these two meanings or words.without your mother and father there is no anthony thomas.whether you respect your mother and father is immaterial.indians by and large hold their firts gurus as mother and father.

you have the shakthi devotees after the adoration of mother.without shakthi there is no shiva.meaning for progress,you need woman and man.you need to postive force and negative force.this is what hindu scriptures teach.each has free will to choose his favourite god or goddess.

do change.you will be benefited.go for the root cause of problem.you are wading on the surface.that is why victory is elusive.you need shirdi sai babas blessings,grace.dont deny it.

>>"God lives in India" showing many instances of cheating by sb, since then it was removed from sale by the trust.<<

beauty lies in the eyes of beholder.

each person thinks,views,a particular scene the way his or her brain pattern goes.the higher conscious works differently with different people.i can have innumerable people refuting your allegations about god who lives in india.the reason to remove the video from the sai trust is because of copyrights and payments negotiations failed.

Your point was that the videos are technically altered to discredit sb. This imputation seems refuted.

Thanks,

Alex

The answer is plain and simple. The life of Sai Baba is as wide and deep as the infinite ocean; and all can dive deep into the same and take out precious gems (of knowledge and Bhakti), and distribute them to the aspiring public. The stories, parables, and teachings of Sai Baba are very wonderful. They will give peace and happiness to the people, who are afflicted with sorrows and heavily loaded with miseries of this worldly existence, and also bestow knowledge and wisdom, both in the worldly and in spiritual domains. If these teachings of Sai Baba, which are as interesting and instructive as the Vedic lore, are listened to and meditated upon, the devotees will get, what they long for, viz., union with Brahman, mastery in eight-fold Yoga, Bliss of meditation etc. So I thought, that I should call these stories together that would be my best Upasana. This collection would be most delightful to those simple souls, whose eyes were not blessed with Sai Baba’s darshana. So, I set about collecting Sai Baba’s teachings and expressions - the outcome of His boundless and natural self-realization. It was Sai Baba, who inspired me in this matter; in fact, I surrendered my ego at His feet, and thought that my path was clear; and that He would make me quite happy here, and in the next world.

http://www.saibaba.org/satcharitra/sai2.html


From the above passage,PLEASE,note the name of the domain itself is 'saibaba'.Again from the above passage,'Sai Baba' conotation ONLY is used.Do YOU NOW understand.Shirdi Sai Baba was,is,will be a revered saint.We are having our own grouse againt the man from Puttaparthi.Why are YOU also joining the same man from Puttaparthi against Shirdi Sai Baba.

I am a Shirdi devotee.My faith is Islam.My brother told me that people do not believe that videos,jpeg,mpeg cannot be altered.I am very sorry to inform you that it is possible to alter.I do not wish to get into any arguments either pro or against.Just get the Puttaparthi Baba.Leave Shirdi Sai out of this.

Thanks,Abdul Rahman.

Anthony Thomas: my vote is against any title change.

1. The fraud from Puttapurthy has usurped the name of Sai Baba, and the shirdi people had done zilch to address it.

2. Excerpt from the sathyasai.org site : http://www.sathyasai.org/organize/z1reg01/...oklet/mission.htm#1
"He is also known as Sri Sathya Sai Baba, Sai Baba, Swami, Bhagavan, or simply as Baba to millions of people in the world". Have these people protested to their site?

3. The discussions here make it amply clear which SB is being discussed.

Thanks.

I vote for change in the title.

I vote for a change in the title too.

Change the title,please.

Do change the title...please.

/m2679

It is not matter of possibility but one of facts.

Best wishes,

Alex

Can you do this change of title topic?

Are you sure that you all are different persons?

Do us a favour for amity,please change the topic of discussion.Thanks.Bindiya.

I would like to see 'sathya' added to the board title. Not using capital letters shows a certain lack of respect for ssb. Or 'sai baba of Puttaparthi.' But that's kind of long unless it's a sub-title.

There are 50 people here right now using the same computer to send our message across.Our message may be exactly the same,partially same with monior modifications.Do not do this to us.Our Mahatama Gandhi taught us non-violent manner of rebelling against injustice.He is our father of the nation.Please understand our faith.

Change it for gods sake.

Suno Bhaiyon,krpia keejeyei.Listen brothers,show enlightenement.

Change,please.

Edited by author 06-29-2002 11:46 AM
I just happened to post at the same time as all those other names. No, I'm not one of the 50! But is this a hint to add ID for Parthi Baba?

Listen to voice of reason,please change.

Please oblige us.

Yeasu,Allah,Nanak,Ishwar Tumhi Ho!Please change the topic of discussion.Sai Baba Ki Jai!!

Malikk,please change.

I can soothe you all.

Your Shirdi Sai Baba is not the anti christ. :-)

Best wishes,

Alex ;-)

For Christ sake,change the topic to sathya sai baba - anti christ or anyother similar such title.Thank you.

Do it for the glory of Jesus Christ.Halelejuah.

Wahe Guru make them change the topic.

Allah make them see reason.I pray for them.Allah Hu Akbar.

God help us.

Ma help us.Ma show them light.Ma hear us.

Come on change it guys!

We request you to change,Sir.

We know your good work.We are trying to assist you.Please Listen to Us.

array yaar,daya karo,kripa karo,hey bhagavan.change it to "asathya" because that is what he is.

Request for a change.

Change mai baap.

neengelle deivam kollum.change...

Mother Mary make them see reason to change.

We Will Be Back After A Break or Wait And See If You Care For Us.

repeating /m2680 that was lost in all the other faked postings (there are a billion names one person can post with...we heard you. Don't spam this and lose your voice)

Anthony Thomas: my vote is against any title change.

1. The fraud from Puttapurthy has usurped the name of Sai Baba, and the shirdi people had done zilch to address it.

2. Excerpt from the sathyasai.org site : http://www.sathyasai.org/organize/z1reg01/...oklet/mission.htm#1
"He is also known as Sri Sathya Sai Baba, Sai Baba, Swami, Bhagavan, or simply as Baba to millions of people in the world". Have these people protested to their site?

3. The discussions here make it amply clear which SB is being discussed.

Thanks.

Edited by author 06-29-2002 12:30 PM
I just wanted to write that I was in favour of change of the topic name too and was happy to see that it had already been changed.

OK - it is changed. I will leave it at this, unless I see there is a good reason to change it back.

I had such a laugh at the good natured way you asked for the change of name. Whoever you are (all are?) - you did it well. I love you all.

As you have so perfectly stated, 'sai baba' means mother/father, so there is little point in me not wanting to add a word that means truth. I agree with you regarding a repect for mother and father. It is wisdom.

One machine may have many Users; especially if the machine resides in one of those internet cafe shops or Indian computer stalls. So, it could very well be many different Followers of Shirdi Sai Baba who are expressing Their legitimate concerns. Regardless, the tactic seems to be a rude one.

Anthony /m2666 :

SNR (SathyaNarayana Raju) had a vision that He would proclaim Himself as Shirdi Sai Baba. So, isn't it true that 'Sai Baba' is coined, canned, and owned by someOne else, not SNR? There is an understanding here, that the name SNR or any derivation of that is meaningless, but the title 'Sai Baba' after the Shirdi Sai Baba has great meaning. Calling SNR as Sathya Sai Baba is taking the first part of His given name (Sathya) and then adding the 'Sai Baba' clarifies that it is NOT Shirdi Sai Baba. There is no prestige nor respect nor glamor added to it. It is simply making it clear that it is NOT who what SNR is portraying by advertising a well-known and well-recognized and well-respected name.

The board-title does not distinguish which Sai Baba is being talked about. If there is Pro or Anti talk about Shirdi Sai Baba, then perhaps it has to be entertained or at least addressing individually by each Poster. Maybe a board-title change is in order. By the way, what happened to the 'anti-Hindu' propogandists?

Anthony, please reconsider ;->

Sekharji

Thanks for the title change Anthony.

By the way, in case other former devotees are interested, Sathya Sai dropped the "Baba" part of the name officially in his assumed title , for official purposes, sometime in the late 1970s, or early 1980s.

All his institutions, hospitals, trusts are all named only "sri sathya sai institute, hospital, trust," etc.

Sathya sai's moving away from the "Shirdi Sai baba" reincarnation myth, has been more pronounced and marked in the last 20 years. He didn't want to be known as Shirdi re-incarnation, as it would weaken his case of "Lord Krishna" reincarnate, since Shirdi isn't accepted in India as an Avatar like Krishna, but as a realised saint .

Thank you,

Hari Sampath

Anthony:

Thank You! And, let Me, if I can, apologize for anyOne who appeared to threaten You with actions. I am sure that it was not meant as a threat, but more as an appeal to correct another wrong doing of SSB.

Sekharji

Thank You Very Much.

Our Love To You.

Our Blessings To You.

See How You Will Succeed.

We Gurantee You On This Based On Our Faith.


Sarvey Jhana Sukhiknow Bhavanthoo.

in your messge "SuloBala 2653 May I suggest you examine the exposure boards first. This is where all the material is contained that will enlighten you as to the truth about 'sb'."

the question is - what is the purpose of this board? To bicker constantly? to indulge in trivia on names? unless you put this board back on rails, all the truth seekers will move on and only those fishing for a fight will remain. Hopefully this weekend would be enough for you to drive some sense into this board.

/m2678 Shirdi - I :

>> The life of Sai Baba is as wide and deep as the infinite ocean; and all can dive deep into the same and take out precious gems <<

>> The stories, parables, and teachings of Sai Baba are very wonderful. <<

>> If these teachings of Sai Baba, which are as interesting and instructive as the Vedic lore, are listened to and meditated upon, the devotees will get, what they long for, viz., union with Brahman, mastery in eight-fold Yoga, Bliss of meditation etc. <<

OK, so now I have three questions:

1 - On what basis did Shirdi Sai Baba unarguably declare that he was God?

2 - Why was he prone to unprovoked fits of wild rage and why did he beat (abuse) his devotees for no reason at all?

3 - Why did he eat meat?

I look forward to uniting with Brahman, experiencing meditational bliss and mastering eight-fold yoga upon receiving the answers that will enlighten my stupid brain.

Sanjay

It sure was nice to see some love and humor on this board. Thank you, all who wrote!

Re #2720: "By the way, in case other former devotees are interested, Sathya Sai dropped the "Baba" part of the name officially in his assumed title for official purposes, sometime in the late 1970s, or early 1980s.

"All his institutions, hospitals, trusts are all named only "sri sathya sai institute, hospital, trust," etc."

That is VERY interesting!! The 'father' part of the ID is gone from the org. Hari or anyone else, exactly what does 'sai' mean? Does it really mean 'divine mother,' or is that something sb invented?

'NUETRAL' wrote (answering B. Kleer) : "investigations in the 1993 killings at Puttaparthi.B.Kleer,HOW DO YO KNOW WHAT HAS BEEN INVESTIGATED?HOW DO YOU KNOW WHETHER SATHYA SAI BABA HAS NOT GIVEN A STATEMENT TO THE POLICE? "
Your seek to be informed about the so-called killings (but they were not killings of the four intruding devotees, but murders of a vile sort - cold-blooded serial executions). Massive documentation on this from courts, police, witnesses, politicians, journalists, plaintiffs and more and is reproduced extensively in the 800-page book 'Murders In Sai Baba's Bedroom' by the well-known rationalist Premanand.
Besides, one can learn most revealing facts about this matter on a website where V.K. Narasimhan's account as told secretly to the Norway ex-Sai Org. leader, Robert Priddy, is given in detail: http://home.no.net/anir/Sai/enigma/VKN1.htm

INSIDER wrote: "I do have information that Sathya Sai Baba has indeed given statement signed to authorities with respect to 1993 matter. Everything is legally correctly done."
Really now! When there is total secrecy around this, 'everything' is not 'legally correctly done'. Just read the documentation - it shows what a massive mess-up the police made, one resulted from initially bungling the cover-up of the full involvement in execution of 4 devotees by certain ashram and Central Trust authorities, led by Janaki Ramiah, SB's younger brother. The matter was closed by a government order. This is not justice, it is dirty politics, with ex-Home Minsiter S.B. Chavan as the main political manipulator.

Re Sekharji 2721 Thank you for your kind words and concern. Threats of any kind tend to fly straight past me. I pay no attention to them. I act in my life doing what feels right from my heart, not from a basis of fear.


RE 2723 I meant the exposure 'websites', rather than message boards. They contain all the material.
This message board is only here to help people who are thinking of leaving 'sb' and need assistance with their doubts or efforts to leave him. Obviously other things come into discussion and heated accusations sometimes fly. However, we all continue to hope that love, understanding and tolerance will rule the day.
We have had times in the past on this board that were fun, supportive, informative and very helpful.



Re Sanjay 2724 Maybe it is time to ensure we concentrate our energy on the exposure of 'sb.' If people have considerations or personal comments re Shirdi Sai Baba, perhaps they belong elsewhere than here.

">>1 - On what basis did Shirdi Sai Baba unarguably declare that he was God?

2 - Why was he prone to unprovoked fits of wild rage and why did he beat (abuse) his devotees for no reason at all?

3 - Why did he eat meat?

I look forward to uniting with Brahman, experiencing meditational bliss and mastering eight-fold yoga upon receiving the answers that will enlighten my stupid brain.<<"

1 - On what basis did Prabhupada unarguably declare that Krishna was God?

2 - Why was Prabhupada prone to unprovoked fits of wild rage and why did he abuse people for no reason at all?(I can show the language Prabhupada used with proof)

3 - Why should anyone NOT eat meat?

If you are looking forward to uniting with Brahman, experiencing meditational bliss and mastering eight-fold yoga upon receiving the answers that will enlighten "YOUR" stupid brain,We Hindus Call it Path Of SELF-realisation.Find yourself a competent Guru.Not the ISKCON type of chaps,if you CANNOT do it by yourself.

Edited by author 06-29-2002 02:23 PM
Eating meat has never been "un-avatar-like"... because even according to the Hindus', Lord Ram ate meat and had liquor as well. Chronicled in the original Valmiki Ramayan. Hanuman , upon meeting Sita Devi in Lanka is asked about the welfare of Lord Ram and Hanuman replies " separated from you, even his normal activities and diet are not happening, neither does he eat meat nor does he drink as he used to" . Does it mean that Lord Ram was not an Avatar ?

Hari Sampath

Edited by author 06-29-2002 02:56 PM
From Robert Priddy's website: http://home.no.net/anir/Sai/enigma/VKN1.htm

"An eye-witness, a bank official who had to go under cover afterwards, told the BBC's journalist (who was early on the scene) that Baba’s younger brother Janakiramiah had just came from the room where Baba was, before he himself shouted out to order the killing of the four inside the apartment. There remain any number of unresolved questions surrounding the details, missing evidence and the completely irreconcilable report of police and many witnesses, for the entire investigation was quashed by intervention from the highest levels of government.

"The Home Minister, S.B. Chavan, was observed to have visited SB a number of times through the months before the eventual CBI investigation was closed down by government order."

Do we care who eats meat (unless SSB does too - anyone here knows?)?

Edited by author 06-29-2002 03:23 PM
I read the article at the site referred by you. Quite painful to read (surpisingly, not the content but the format and the narrative). Very badly written. No wonder oratory skills are required to influence people over ;) Never has a murder story so boringly written, even with a cast of such interesting characters.

Agreed!! Mr. Priddy might think of hiring a popular writer to help with his almost unreadable dissertations.

I found a classic reply that can be altered slightly to answer any question:

"When something has been materialised already,how can anyone rematerialise?"

;;)

the following lines in the article by Mr. Priddy make interesting reading:

SB...who lives in ..a fortress-like apartment with an impenetrable overhanging balcony and access only by a lift, in which SB and two or three boys (according both to VKN and SB himself) lock themselves at night.

Is it true? Has SB said so? If so when and where? May be he was giving hints to everyone all along!

"Do we care who eats meat (unless SSB does too - anyone here knows?)?"

SB's older sister Venkamma used to cook for him. She also cooked for a rascal grandson who lived in town. There was meat in those dishes for the grandson. Maybe some of those meat dishes made their way to sb's private quarters.

Thanks Ashram Insider. Now the plot thickens...first a brother who has been accused of murder, and now a sister who had a rascal grandson.

With over over 20 years of attending SSB study circles in the US, I definitely feel that sathya should be included in his name. There are many SB's but only one SSB.

Edited by author 06-29-2002 07:19 PM
O.K., I'm answering my own question about the meaning of 'sai.' Another myth shattered, it seems. The answer is on Brian Steel's website in Chapter 3 titled, 'Sai Baba's Language:' http://bdsteel.tripod.com/

"Another of SB's imaginative etymologies for his exotic first name is: "Sa means 'Divine,' ai or aya means 'mother'
(Sathya Sai Speaks, XII, 38:229)

"But in a scholarly book about Shirdi Sai Baba, Keven Shepherd (1986) proposes the following origin of Sai: "Sai is not a Hindu name, but a Persian word indicative of a holy man. It seems to bear an affinity with the Arabic sa'ih, which in the early medieval ear of Islam was used to designate itinerant ascetics of sufi background. It apparently reflects the Muslim background of the subject."
-----------------

So there goes the myth of Divine Mother. For SB 'Sathya sai' has no particular meaning. 'Truth' (if that's what sathya really means) and sai: a roaming Muslim sufi, which sb definitely is not!!

Sincerely,
Long-Time Devotee

> Sorry mate.It can be done.We are doing it.If you are interested
> you can contact the firm in San Francisco.They will show you
> also how to do it,if you want to learn.There are some far out
> people in Hollywood,whose expertise is fantastic,that they
> charge such high prices.

 Alright ...
 Prove your claim. Send me an MPEG which you think I will not be able to show to be false or true, either way. As I said, demonstration of technology is the only way you can prove the possibilty of the videos being fake.

 Roshan

> I am a Shirdi devotee.My faith is Islam.My brother told me that
> people do not believe that videos,jpeg,mpeg cannot be altered.
 
 To the level of a trained eye not being able to discern the
 difference. Prove me wrong if you disagree.

Title change to ...

 Sahtya Sai Baba - Homosexual Paedophilic cheeating criminal ?

 Roshan

Try.

On Sun, 30 Jun 2002, QT - to RRR wrote:

>

___________b__l__a__c__k____m__e__t__a__l____r__u__l__e__s________ < replied-to message removed by QT >

Comment to "Back_2topic 2738 who wrote: << Now the plot thickens...first a brother who has been accused of murder, and now a sister who had a rascal grandson.>>
Your 'brotherhood' and 'sisterhood' is so broad as to include accomplices to murder and sexual abuse, so why not extend it to include all the others who commit such offences? But you only succeed in demonstrating how ignorant you are of many relevant facts and how inconsistently narrow-mindedly you conceive of the brotherhood and sisterhood of man. Typical 'Sai-family' arrogance.

To 'Bedroom Murders' and the questioner "to Bedroom Murders" who asked:
<<SB...who lives in ..a fortress-like apartment with an impenetrable overhanging balcony and access only by a lift, in which SB and two or three boys (according both to VKN and SB himself) lock themselves at night. Is it true? Has SB said so? If so when and where? May be he was giving hints to everyone all along!">>
You both were bored by Priddy's thorough texts. So we know, at least, that you can't either read the endless repetitive 'popular' vague and sweeping drivel that SB has descended to delivering in his endless discourses, including the one you didn't read where he tells of sharing his bedroom with boys (quoted in full from Sanathana Sarathi and analysed in view of other S. Sai statements and facts at http://home.no.net/anir/Sai/enigma/Weird (1).htm
Evidently neither of you can take on board anything above the level of a cheap popular novel? (But congratulations on at least knowing the word 'dissertation'). You seem to thrive on sensation, not facts and very accurately presented information. That is why you are so ignorant of documented facts. Try to increase your attention spans. Serious people like statesmen, governmental and human rights' officials, ambassadors, lawyers, researchers, psychologists, journalists and academics are the users of such information, for whom it is eminently well-suited. But not to the brain-surrendered brotherhood of simple souls, so loved by S. Sai (but only if they grovel to him).

"including the one you didn't read where he tells of sharing his bedroom with boys (quoted in full from Sanathana Sarathi and analysed in view of other S. Sai statements and facts at "

India is a huge country with an extraordinary mix of many culture,of many ethnic backgrounds.It is grappling with its poverty,illiteracy,rational thinking for the populace.

There are plenty of families in India who share a single ,eat,sleep,study,change clothes,as a family,with minimal privacy,of thoughts,actions,or visual display of body parts.Some do not overcome such pattern of life despite having made to big leagues,accumalated enormous richness materially.

It is customary for families in India to share 'bedroom'with other family members without having guilt complex,or throwing to ulterior motives for such display of family affection.It is a standard western notion and interpret such actions as pretty much to weird motives?

Robert Priddy,is a closet queen.He talks about editing of Sai litreature.Which Holy book has not been edited or got translated into many languages.?This is awful.Do NOT india s poverty and cultural heritage.Do NOT mock at our ways.

To informer: why do you have to come down heavily on people? Is it due to a lack of substance or just a way of life? It is such vituperative drool that drives people to unproductive exchanges on public message boards.

You probably missed the point that the postings were from apparent non-believers, in good jest. Or didn't you?

Interesting to read your message about families sharing a single room.

I suppose young men share rooms and continue to share rooms with a lack of privacy through college and uni.?

Why does Sai Baba need 3 or 4 boys to sleep in his room now that he is older.

Is it a custom for older men to share their bedroom with younger men?

Are Indians by in large uncomfortable to be alone?

(They seem to like to share with each other in all manner of ways ---from my observation.)

 your message /m2752 is plain garbage.it appears you do not understand the poverty of india.despite baba having grown older 77 years but still continues to allow his students to sleep in his bedroom and attribute sickening motives for that only gives us information how a sicko mind like yours works.thanks sicko,now run to your mama.

VHP Abroad congratulates Anthony Thomas,the Moderator of this Topic.

You have shown to us that you are equally concerned when some defect is pointed from different source.

We encourage your work,as long it is not hurtful to Hindus,sentiments,emotions,culture.Should it start,we will contact you personally,as VHP Abroad had done to you earlier.To set records straight,there were never any implied threat to you,in our communication.We expressed ourselves to you and our concern.

Thanking You

Vikram Pandey.

It's convenient to take umbrage under "Indian custom" when needed....how many godmen live such an immodest life? If it is common for most Indians to share a room, it is for lack of facilities - and your man does the same just for the opposite reason: he can afford to do that!

I would be happy if everybody at least would post under a unique nickname if not under his real name.

Otherwise, we will end up with "to 'to to informer'" or similar unclear addressings.

Thanks,

Alex

/m2754

To "VHP Oficer" Vikram Pandey.

What a bunch of nonsense you have posted. Originally the term "anti Christ" was supposed to have offended "Hindu sentiments" because it referred to Sai Baba. Now that Sai Baba has been changed to "Sathya Sai Baba", you find "anti Christ" no longer offensive.

Please elaborate in what way Hindu sentiment was first affected and how has the "defect" been rectified now ?? It appears you don't have the faintest idea of Hindu religion, wonder how you got into the Vishwa Hindu Parishad in the first place. I shall have a word with the Indian leadership about you ( if you happen to be genuine, that is)

Thanks,

Hari Sampath

My question to why does Sai have young men sleep in his room is sincere and not meant to be offensive to you or anyone.

Sai Baba is not poor but enjoys spacious homes in many locations, so why does he need to have boys in his room?
Is it an Indian custom of sleeping or what?

It is not the custom here, so I'm wondering why there is still a custom among the rich to share rooms in India.

Most elderly people like their own room and value their privacy.

No offence meant.

Sorry you took it that way.

sorry lucideye. I will try to avoid such names in the future. I am trying to catch someone's eye here.

to "To Informer": There is no such custom in India. I know, because I have been an Indian for a long time ;). It is borne purely out of necessity, just like anywhere else in the world where poverty drives out privacy. There are several ways of avoiding a frank discussion, one is to refer to customs, other about casteism and the last is to lash out.

Hari Sampath, do you have the book Love Is My Form???

To "Back_2topic" posting 2751, who wrote:
"To informer: why do you have to come down heavily on people?"
Answer: I came down heavily on one who deserved it! (So it must be karma, you would think?). I am not bound by anyone's censorious, manipulative restrictions on words (like SS's), but by truthfulness.
and who also wrote "You probably missed the point that the postings were from apparent non-believers, in good jest. Or didn't you?"
Answer: it makes not a jot of difference in this instance. On the merits of the case, I responded accordingly.
'In good jest' is meretricious from you, who evidently can't/won't distinguish a called-for and fully deserved response from 'vituperative drool', even when you hypocritically post this yourself - I remind you that you wrote "It is such vituperative drool that drives people to unproductive exchanges on public message boards." Yes. You get as you give... but you feel it is hard! The truth often is hard. That is productive enough for here! And 'Thank you!'

To "to informer?" posting 2750 (who is hiding from the public, but whose vicious heart can't be hidden from those who read him).
The poor, seriously deprived Indian Sai family - S. Baba and three boys or young men, have to crush into one luxury apartment at nights, poor souls, and even share beds (or closets)!
You wrote more irrelevant, minor, senseless rot: "Robert Priddy,is a closet queen.He talks about editing of Sai litreature.Which Holy book has not been edited or got translated into many languages.?" But I know you feel the sting of the truth, for you have to descend to the depths of deceit, lying despicably about someone you most evidently do not know at all!

/m2760

No

Hari Sampath

I agree with you on one thing (/m2761): Truth is often hard; especially for those who belong to a cult. And that is where wisdom fails and words take over.

Message 2757 ,is really irrelevant to the topic .Hari Sampath maybe adviced to cock up his hell hole and show off elsewhere.Please Mr.Moderator,delete such provacative replies when the letter was addressed to you.

informer: reading back, looks like someone else from the dark side is also posting in your name now.

Found a link selling the book 'Love is my form'. Hope this helps.
http://www.indhia.com/virtualbookstore/ploveismyform.htm

/m2766

>>Message 2757 ,is really irrelevant to the topic .Hari Sampath maybe adviced to cock up his hell hole and show off elsewhere.Please Mr.Moderator,delete such provacative replies when the letter was addressed to you.<<

Very much relevant to the topic, and there is no such thing as addressed to one particular person on a public board. In that case, my message was addressed to "Vivek Pandey", so who the heck are you to comment ??

When someone poses to be an "official" of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, and posts a message on this board about the topic title, saying it is offensive to Hindus, and later just for the addition of the word "Sathya", says the mistake has been rectified, I have evry right to question both the original post as well as the latter one.

As this person professing to be a "champion of Hinduism" seemed to have a shocking lack of knowledge about the religion, I , as a concerned Hindu just wondered, what the heck he is doing in such an organization, anything wrong with that ??

And...yes...I can and will contact the VHP Indian leadership and check out about this person, but because anyone can post in anyone's name here, I doubt if it is the real individual.

Hari Sampath

Did we lose SuloBala (/m2653) yet? Where were we before all the ruckus about the title change came up?

In case you are still around, SuloBala: so far we had a follower admit that SSB gets peoples' pants down to their ankles, if atleast for administering his cures. Hope you remember this and take actions that your conscience dictates.

>>As this person professing to be a "champion of Hinduism" seemed to have a shocking lack of knowledge about the religion, I , as a concerned Hindu just wondered, what the heck he is doing in such an organization, anything wrong with that ??

And...yes...I can and will contact the VHP Indian leadership and check out about this person, but because anyone can post in anyone's name here, I doubt if it is the real individual.<<

Lets get back and focus on your court case.Have you filed in the lower court?Do you think,you will win?

"sathya".....truth

What a great example to take from bringing about a name change.

A name that a lot of people would endeavour to bring out into the open about sathya sai baba's sexual activities, through an International Investigation to take place.

The persistence and effort in getting the name changed by adding "sathya" just shows the sort of effort that is required from people to expose "sathya" sai baba about his ferociuos appetite for sex - the truth to come out and how appropriate for that name to come forward for this expose.

After 23 years around "sathya" sai baba(ssb) and his organization and reading a lot of books. I have not once in that time read a book about ssb rubbing vibuthi on genitals. Books published by his propaganda machine,his organization.Why is that? What is there to hide? The "truth"-"sathya" coming out now - it seems, just for sex!!

If "sathya" sai baba did what his books suggested,ie,just rub vibuthi onto the forhead and put some into one's mouth instead. It would be ok, but it seems "sathya" sai baba lifts his robe and sticks is penis into young boys,males mouths and practices other sex acts to. "sathya" sai baba seems to have two lives, one for public consumption and the other a private life that is suppose to be sectretive. In which he tells the individual not to tell anyone to what took place in the private interview rooms and locations.

Take the present example of persistance and effort to bring action to bring about an investigation by legal authorities.

Please keep up your efforts and endeavours to expose "sathya" sai baba to just being known as mad "sexual" sai baba - the anti christ.

Just persist and the authorities will take notice!

#2771: Thanks for the book link.

2772 nice moniker sanjay dalani as sai-sex.

Sai-sex: Such coarse language only serves to blunt your message.

Despite what some people seem to think, I do not sit on the board 24 hours a day scanning messages as they are posted. I do check frequently, and I do find messages posted that I would perhaps then delete. BUT often others have already responeded to them. Sometimes, within that response is other valid information.

Perhaps if we all are not so quickly insulted or feel the need to 'defend our honour' (who believes it anyway!) and don't respond to every small statement said about us, we could may have a less insulting board.

It is imperative that people use their name for their posts. I asked earlier for this when someone used VVReddy?' Adding an ? - isn't enough to clearly show that a different person is posting. Please choose a name of your own. Then, whatever name you choose (maybe even your own!!) stick to it.

I am considering deleting posts that keep referring to someone else's name in the author box

Anthony,

It is about time you closed this board down. The sort of filth posted here is no use to anyone.It is only dirty talk to pass time and poke fun.

As for you, I believe, you don't know Sai Baba, you have never been a devotee (So I'm told) and you have no idea of the many experiences of the people who visit him. It seems to many viewers to your board, that you come from some narrow area in life where Sai expose has become your gratification rather than revealing evidence. As you know there are ample websites, including those written by Robert Priddy ( long term devotee) and others, who have met the requirements of the general public and other inquiring minds in abundance.

This board serves only those 'hangers on' - who have nothing more to do with their time, then find fault and talk unnecessarily about homosexual acts.

Maybe that's how they get their 'jollies' in life, and Sai Baba is only the vehicle to which they turn to enable them to vent their pent up feelings of loss and frustration.

(Time and time again.)

sad.

nice try, observer one.

>>It is about time you closed this board down. The sort of filth posted here is no use to anyone.It is only dirty talk to pass time and poke fun.

- you would prefer this board never existed, right?

>>As for you, I believe, you don't know Sai Baba, you have never been a devotee (So I'm told) and you have no idea of the many experiences of the people who visit him.
-- and that disqualifies him from running this board, so damn it?

>>It seems to many viewers to your board, that you come from some narrow area in life where Sai expose has become your gratification rather than revealing evidence. As you know there are ample websites, including those written by Robert Priddy ( long term devotee) and others, who have met the requirements of the general public and other inquiring minds in abundance.

-- you may be right, so don't hang around here. Beat it,

This board serves only those 'hangers on' - who have nothing more to do with their time, then find fault and talk unnecessarily about homosexual acts.

-- the same acts that are so necessary for your guru?

Maybe that's how they get their 'jollies' in life, and Sai Baba is only the vehicle to which they turn to enable them to vent their pent up feelings of loss and frustration

-- so why do you want to deny them that?

We know your motives. Your policy seems to be, If you can't beat them, lick them?

/m2779 sort of the same sentiment expressed by SuloBala earlier. It's time we bring some meaningful structure, even though this is a public forum.

Dear Observer One,

I am an ex devotee of 27 years of SSB. I have been actice in the Sai organization such as holding an office and attending bhajans and study circle on a regualar weekly basis for over 20 years. No, I can not dismiss the fact that a young man who I've known for 17 years here in the USA was sexually molested by SSB over 20 times (oral sex and maturbation). The family is very credible and I have even stayed overnight at ther house.

The problem with you, in my opinion is that you are not willing to put SSB on ice, and do a very slow and careful investigation. Yes, take a neutral stance and have the courage to face the truth wherever it may lead you! I have no axe to grind for I have or endeavor to have, a forgiving nature. I receive no money from anyone in this expose'. You can check me out with devotees who have known me. My only motive is to give information and to be of help. Maybe some on this board have never been to India but I have certainly been called into interviews more than once. I have known many old time devotees such as Hislop.

SSB must be exposed. The legacy of the great saints of India should be preserved for the sake of humanity.

Sincerely, Dennis

#2779 - To Observer One:

Anthony Thomas knows the false god of Puttaparthi much better than you or I. Try reading some background information:
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/clever.htm

Hello Marswalker!! Great to see you here.

To OBSERVER ONE..I agree with you 100percent. Those who show such hatred and anger as being done here, only hurt their own physical and mental health..none will affect the accused..it is common knowledge which any inteeligent person is aware of..they are digging their own grave...let them ride on..leave them alone.....

Saishoot, if one listens quietly within, the 'hatred and anger' is mainly in posts such as yours, a still very active sb devotee. The sb influence is unmistakable. May you depart this board in peace.

Edited by author 07-01-2002 05:35 PM
http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex-baba/english.html
Date: 07-01-02

From 'our man in Canberra' comes the promising news as circulated to SSO leaders in Australia.

"Educare Seminar III - 14th. September 2002

sairam all,

Since the response for the earlier two seminars especially the second one has been extremely poor, we request you to provide the number of people who would be attending the third seminar on 14th. September 2002. It is not necessarily essential for some one to have attended the first two to attend the third. Since a lot of time and effort goes into preparation and running of these seminars, we would request the Chairpersons to provide the numbers so that we can decide if we need to go ahead as planned.

The youth leaders are also requested to please specify the numbers since no youth participated in the earlier two seminars.

sairam & regards,

yeshwanth enjeti

(E-mail: yesh_enjeti@bigpond.com)"

<<Anthony Thomas knows the false god of Puttaparthi much better than you or I. Try reading some background information>>

Long-time Devotee..what makes you so sure Anthony knows Sai Baba better that anyone else? What qualifies him to tell us who he is?

Marswalker...this young man was molested over 20 times? Why so many times? Why didn't he speak up?

Dear Beth, Re: 2789

He was taught at an early age that SSB was God. Furthermore, his parents were not only very active in the Sai organization, ade many,many trips to to the ashram, given top VIP treatment such as playing music in a group for the devotees, and very devout devotees of SSB. It is quite a story. The boy did not tell his parents until confronted that he that was about to be thown out of the house becuase of his growing ant-Sai bevavior, that he confessed to his parents what had occurred..... I pray that you and others will start to get the picture.

Best wishes, Dennis J Hanisch

It appears that the actual text of the judgement was:


           We are not inclined to entertain this petition under Article 32 of the Constitution of India. It is accordingly dismissed. The petitioner may approach the appropriate forum.


Nothing more, nothing else. Everything else on this board was interpretation. Can someone please clarify?

/m2791

This is what I had been explaining for weeks together !!!

I had repeatedly said the following :

The Supreme Court asked my attorneys in course of the hearing why I was not approaching High Court under Article 226, saying it served exactly the same purpose of Article 32.

The Supreme court "dismissed" the petition UNDER THE ART 32 ONLY, while simultaneously recommending that I could approach the appropriate forum) which means High court. The dismissal was NOT on merit of the case, but only under the article 32 and only because the SC wanted me to appeal under Art 226, which is the same thing .

What confusion is there ??

Hari Sampath

in hind sight, do you think you should've announced the Supreme Court's decision yourself?

...also, you have asked, "What confusion is there ??". It is just that the Supreme Court's verdict is being interpreted by you and your counsel here. We are just looking for validation.

Please read 2793 as
in hind sight, do you think you should've made public the Supreme Court's decision yourself?

Ok... "interpret" it anyway you please... no problems for me... it doesn't change the legal situation one bit. The fact remains the SC has specificaly asked me to approach High court under Art 226( by the way, oral orders by SC are also perfectly valid, according to Indian law, when presented along with written judgement)

And, I had been posting about this judgement for ages... just check all the boards.

Hari Sampath

I may be reading it wrong, but the gloves seem to come out in #2796. Hope you understand the situation here:

- most of us come to know about your complaint with the FBI and CBI from your site.
- also are the videos that finally assert what we have always suspected, but could not establish.

- the Supreme Court passes a judgment on May 8th, 2001 and is never mentioned in your site.
- the other c..y guy at this site mentions it here (at least that is where some of us heard it first) and you come out with details.

and looking up the judgment, it is kinda subject to interpretation.

In fairness to you, you have explained several reasons (like why you had to approach the Supreme Court and not the victims, and if you have been materially compensated by the victims) in this board. It just makes us a bit antsy if there is reason to believe that you have not been forthright. And it puts all the evidence in your site under suspicion.

Finally, even if a posting appears to be provocative on the surface, assume innocence at least for the first few rounds.

Good Luck!

Edited by author 07-01-2002 11:35 PM
/m2797

I have time and again been explaining why I am still waiting to go to the High court according to the direction given to me by the SC.

No one can ever say I had not been forthright in all my activities on the expose. The only reason I have not published the judgement or the original document on my site is because the matter is still "sub judice", meaning pending judicial treatment. As I am the petitioner, I cannot afford the luxury of "propogating" the SC judgement, as Indian laws have provisions where if publicity is sought on any public interest litigation, sometimes the courts would refuse to take up the matter. I had been advised so by my attorney team too.

There is no question of there being any doubt on the evidence presented on my site, as all the testimonies, videos, facts etc are open to confirmation.

And, by the way, I am not in the least bit "aggressive" or pulling off the gloves, I was just answering you question which I thought was valid. But I got the impression you were repeatedly raising things which I had addressed more than satisfactorily, to the extent of even posting all the relevant legal articles from the official Indian constitution.


Thanks,

Hari Sampath

Edited by author 07-01-2002 11:46 PM
much better now. I only wish somebody had stepped in on Friday to state this (the sub judice clause), instead of me having to dig up the actual judgment. There was a posting by someone claiming to be a mother first, and her thoughts seemed to resonate with ours...at least, mine.

Your attorneys are in the best position to advise you, but may be you should state in your site that the proceedings are sub judice.

Once again, good luck. As such you have a lot to deal with, and I shouldn't inadvertently add anymore.

Edited by author 07-02-2002 12:19 AM
>>Your attorneys are in the best position to advise you, but may be you should state in your site that the proceedings are sub judice.<<

You may have noted that I had not even published the petition on my site, as my attorneys advised against it. Obviously, I cannot afford to go public with all details of what I presented to the Highest court in India, as too many sensitice details about politicians etc are involved.

As this is is the situation, I did not want to publish any interim sub judice judgement or status too, as it wouldn't clarify any matter, without the original petition.

This is why I have been explaining in plain English and understandable language that the Supreme court took cognizance of the petition on merit, but chose not to entertain it under the particular article 32 I applied under, for the reason the same purpose can be accomplished by article 226 in a high court, and directed me accordingly.

As most of the people on these boards and sites may not understand the Indian legal provisions, I have been merely presenting the situation as it is( in absolute honesty)

Thanks,( for your good luck too)

Hari Sampath

2779-Observer one
Keep on observing, you might learn something about "sathya" sai baba? And not to your liking! eg., your post! and my previous post,2777,which was deleted? Full of pun and ,yes,full of fun!

2785-SAISHOOT
You might learn something too?

2788-Beth
2789

Lovely questions.

How about directing some of them to and asking "sathya" sai baba if you can get near him. And if you do get near him to ask those questions, you just might be treated like Jack Hislop and told to leave the room. Because he is god and you do not bargain with god, do you. All so very secretive as to what goes behind closed doors when it comes to "sathya" sai baba.

Most of us have lots of questions to ask "sathya" sai baba, and with persistance at that. Getting questions and answers out into the open to proclaim whether "sathya" sai baba is god or the anti-christ. Now that would hold peoples interest.

Beth, I am sure you would be interested in that? Otherwise you wouldn't be on this topic.Like you said "God will bring it all out!"

Thats right, your the one that has to witness everything in order to know the facts are true. So a victim is not a victim because you were not a witness to it. How convenient.

the only question I asked was, why did this boy submit to being molested 20 times before speaking up to anyone? That was not a question for Sai Baba, that was a question for the boy. Only the boy could answer it.
I do wish people would read more carefully.

Honorable Marswalker:

If You wouldn't mind, I have two questions for You:

1. How did You handle the situation with this young Boy? What did You say to the Parents? I ask because I (have faced and do) face similiar circumstances. The Parents are quite deluded and demand that Their Children be devoted to SSB. Some Children believe that telling the Parents is a futile effort and would create much dissension within the family, so They keep quiet.

2. There was one situation I faced where I began explaining the issues to the Parents of a young Boy, in the presence of the Boy. The Parents sent the Boy away, and explained that They knew all about it. They actually said: "Who cares what happens in Puttaparthi? We are running a Center here, that is what is important." My question to You is: Have You encountered anything like this before? If so, how did You handle it?

Thanks in advance.

Sekharji

<<They actually said: "Who cares what happens in Puttaparthi? We are running a Center here, that is what is important.">>

Now please Explain what this Means...You leave a sentence post like this on the board that does not make any sense and one wonders what exactly are YOU asking and What's going on in Your Mind? ( and why all the cap letters...LOL???)

What does it mean "who cares what goes on a Puttaparthi? "

What do the parents mean by that?

What do the parents MEAN when they say..."we are running a center and that's all that matters" ? )

I don't know anyone who talks this way. Maybe Indian people think illogically...but I don't think so. I don't know any western people who would talk this way.

So please explain. YOu are an UNCLEAR communicater.

you left out important parts of your story too Sekharji...

You are obviously trying to slant the story YOUR WAy...
Because of course , all sai devotees are deluded according to you and don't think logically and don't care about the welfare of their children. They are all blind deluded souls...stupid people who don't think for themselves and don't have any control over their own lives, because they are under the hypnotic spell of a dark being.

Beth, Beth...

I am not able to make sense of your postings. You are obvioulsy ardently defending your sb theory and even when highly credible people tell you that sb molests boys on a regular basis, you do not seem to pay any attention to it and rather want to stick to your baba lesson theory.

Get the phone numbers of the people who have been devotees for decades and ask them about the molestations. But this is obviously not what you want. You will always in the light of all the facts stick to your lesson theory.

So why post to this board any longer?

Edited by author 07-02-2002 01:46 PM
Beth said,"...the only question I asked was, why did this boy submit to being molested 20 times before speaking up to anyone? That was not a question for Sai Baba, that was a question for the boy. Only the boy could answer it.
I do wish people would read more carefully."

Beth, you are the one who should read more carefully. Conny Larsson, the 15 year old California boy and others have explained exactly why they didn't speak up sooner. You don't seem to have read about their experiences on the web sites. Try reading these accounts VERY carefully on the sites: ex-baba, Sunrise, and sathyasaivictims.com.

Then come back and tell us that you have read and UNDERSTOOD these accounts. Otherwise you are simply causing a distraction on this board. I am really tired of your pro-sb posts. We know what your viewpoint is. You don't have to keep repeating it.

Thanks,
LTD

>>Maybe Indian people think illogically...but I don't think so. I don't know any western people who would talk this way. <<

Beth, I can tell you plenty of westerners I know who talk LOTS more nonsense.

Some examples I have heard in the last 2 years are ...

" Even if Swami has sex with young boys, he must have a reason, must be for their good"

"Even if Swami sometimes cheats on miracles, we cannot understand the reasons, becauase he is the Avatar".

"Even if Swami makes elementary mistakes about facts and other information, he is still omniscient, because he is the Avatar".

"He is the Avatar, because he performs miracles, he has omniscient knowledge, has no lust or desire, and is Truth himself".

Beth, if this cyclic (IL)logic comes from the minds of largely westerners who are completely brainwashed SB devotees, why should one discriminate between Indian and western brainwashed devotees ??

In fact, I can tell you for sure that Indians will NEVER take the position " sex is ok, Swami must have a reason", even if they are SB devotees, because generally speaking for Indians, Sex and spiritual leaders DON'T go together. This is why Sai Baba never even mentions the word sex in any speech, nor has he ever said once that he "cures" young men , because that is completely unacceptable to Indians.

Even this so called "kundalini" explantion , and balderdash is a creation of the Western mind, and subtly encouraged by the SB org who always present one face of SB to the West and another face to India.

Thanks,

Hari Sampath

LTD's duplicate post deleted by request.

LTD is Sanjay Dadlani.

<<Beth, if this cyclic (IL)logic comes from the minds of largely westerners who are completely brainwashed SB devotees, why should one discriminate between Indian and western brainwashed devotees ??>>

I didn't discriminate Hari...
What I said was: "Maybe Indian people think illogically, but I **DON'T** think so.
I was simply pointing out the illogical statements made by Sekharji...and asked him to * complete* his line of thought...which he hasn't. He left a completely illogical line of reasoning on the post and I asked him to clear it up.

If you guys are going to make you argumentsd, ( I'm talking to both sides here) you're going to have to present them logically.
ps....I am not speaking to you Hari, you are one of the comprehebsiblewriters here, Anthony speaks clearly, Tryuelight speaks clearly, Dennis speaks clearly...Alex speaks clearly...but some of the rest of you have muddled thoughts or disconnected thoughts, and it comes through your writing..

that last message went through WITHOUT me hitting the post button...it just desided to go through on its own...

I was in the process of correcting the many typographical and spelling errors...
but it's too late now...and i think you'll be able to figure it out.

<<Hacker says: "LTD is Sanjay Dadlani." >>

LOL...I don't recognize this person as Sanjay...but it's someone who doesn't have any tolerance for my "challenging" questions...that's for sure.

Thus spake Beth, the true voice of logic!

Another question for Sekharji:

You say that you are dealing with parents of children molested by Sai Baba... why are you not sharing the particulars of those stories on these boards? Are they American children?

#2816 "Thus spake Beth, the true voice of logic!"

Amen!! Ah, the sweet mystery of the female mind.

IMHO what Beth indulges in is double-speak. What if one were to post "Maybe Beth comes from a family of w...es but I don't think so"?

It is damaging to bracket a large community in a bad light, even if you follow up with a sentence that negates it.

Dear Outraged,
I was being sarcastic. I apologize.

...and in my outrage, may be I crossed a line. I too apologize.

Ok guys ... lets stop the sarcasm and the apologies as well.. :-) I have known Beth for quite sometime to say confidently she wouldn't comment anything derogatory about any country or group ( although I do tell her she posts silly stuff about Sai Baba :-) LoL )

Hari Sampath

2805-Beth
Try holding a decent conversation with the man!.....oooooops! god.....hmmmmm....I mean "sathya sai baba....er..... the anti-christ. you know what I mean, don't you? Well, I mean you understand.

"loosen up a bit", thats right your a female not a male so there is no worries for you then.

2820-Beth
2821-Outraged
Apologese all round,ha!(with a smile)what is this discussion board coming to. Great to read. I just might have to go from this topic if you all are nice to each other(smile).

Ok. There have been several godmen before SSB who have also been frauds and have instigated crimes. While SSB has attained the distinction of being a child molester (can't remember any one else in the recent past), he hasn't been the cause of murders like several ones before him. Most of the press reports about the '93 murders seem to implicate Jankiram (SSB's brother - did I get it right?) and not SSB directly. The last time a comet showed up, there was a guru in the U.S. who led his followers in mass suicide. The Waco massacre was not too far behind, and his philosophies are worth taking a look, for a comparison.

To cut a long-winded question short - why pick on SSB to be the anti Christ? Is it due to his wealth, number of followers, or plain pedophilia?


As always, I will ignore insults and respond to intelligence only.

2cents: Here is why Anthony Thomas has given the anti-Christ title to this board and why he has singled out sathya sai of Puttaparthi: http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/clever.htm

Your comments are welcome after you have read the article.

thanks...will do. I did try the first few postings of this board (the ones that survived that is)....

Edited by author 07-03-2002 01:37 AM
# 2804 Sekharji asked:
 
"The Parents are quite deluded and demand that Their Children be devoted to SSB. Some Children believe that telling the Parents is a futile effort and would create much dissension within the family, so They keep quiet.

"...The Parents sent the Boy away, and explained that They knew all about it. They actually said: "Who cares what happens in Puttaparthi? We are running a Center here, that is what is important." My question to You is: Have You encountered anything like this before? If so, how did You handle it?"
--------------------------------
This is a really tough question if a parent or anyone else is determined that sb is God and anything he does is O.K. I know devotees who simply WILL NOT consider that sb can do any wrong. They don't even listen to their own family members.

These parents were saying that what sb does in Puttaparthi is of no concern to them, even if there are reports that he molests children there. Apparently these parents only cared about keeping their local sb center running smoothly. I hope Marswalker has an answer for you.

One man (boy?) who wrote his own story had a really good handle on devotees (under the sub-heading "The Denial of Devotees"), the best I've read: http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/Bright-1.htm

Re 2cents 2824 ........why pick on SSB to be the anti Christ? Is it due to his wealth, number of followers, or plain pedophilia?

None of the above! If this were the criteria, there would be millions of anti-christs!! Anti-christ = a name used to describe a state of being and goals of one person on Earth).

Who could ever prove the existence of an anti-christ? It is not something scientific, that can statistically add up. It is something one would need to know in their deepest place of spiritual knowing. The only other way of guaging such a thing, would be to look for someone who had many millions of devoted followers that would do his every bidding simply because he said so (denying their own inner gut feelings), who pretended to be light and love itself (including a few worthy projects to help the community), who made people dependant on him (I am god and you must not fall out of favour with me), used lots of words of truth to obtain that devotion (but meant none of them), and cleverly made himself seem like someone very special (manifesting objects,ash, appearing to people, etc). All the while saying -you are'also' god - but doing everything possible to make absolutely sure that no-one believed that and left quite sure that it was actually only him that was God.

>>You say that you are dealing with parents of children molested by Sai Baba... why are you not sharing the particulars of those stories on these boards? Are they American children?<<

For what?
You would stick to your lesson theory in any case.

to Anthony Thomas: Your answer about the meaning of 'anti-Christ' excellently summarised the core of the Sai Baba deception in a very striking and unquestionably true manner. Once a convinced and so-called 'much-blessed devotee', I had long, slowly mounting experience of disillusionment... which gradually began to kick in seriously about a decade after close contact with Sai Baba - both darshans, interviews, hundreds of dreams, many leelas etc. Twelve years on, my process of liberation from the clutches of Sai Baba is truly completed now. It was very hard to get in close enough really to see what is behind the security veils. The factual truth also had its way with me, but only because - though a devotional and practising Sai seva worker etc. etc. - I remained an inquirer, one who went both within and without!
It takes considerable qualities of compassion and courage to continue to work selflessly in the public interest against this massive deceit for so many years - as you have! My gratitude to you is added to all the victims of this self-serving 'God'! (I prefer still to remain anon. on this board. It serves our interests and my strategies best.)

I am also somewhat impressed by your patience, such as with some of the brainless chickens who peck at what is before their beaks on the site but who can't even be bothered to cross the road to find out anything for themselves and ask inanely about the most well-documented and accepted facts! I can no longer suffer fools so well, since there are so many of them and also there are so many others much more deserving of support and answers.

To Informer Re 2830
My heart is truly happy for every person that manages to escape from his clutches. I have a great understanding of just how difficult that is - and how strong people have to be to get through all the fear, doubts, trauma and strong astral energy attachment to finally become free of his energy.

I am very grateful for the small part I am able to contribute, but this is really so little compared to so many who work tirelessly to get 'sb' finally exposed.

I try my best to be as patient as possible. It is not really so difficult as I see everyone in the same frame of life, each surely doing the best they can to handle and understand the events of life. We all see things differently, depending on the information and upbringing we have received, our beliefs, hopes and desires. I have never thought anyone stupid for following 'sb.' There is little outer difference between following 'sb', or any other guru, cult or orthodox church. People search for answers to life. It is a human and spiritual quest of great adventure. Many people also have an inner desire (whether recognised or not) to find a person or group that will take care of them and will lead them on a path of righteous and truth. This is surely a part of all our learning and growth.

Personally, I believe that most of us take this route through our various incarnations. But, perhaps we all arrive ultimately at a conclusion that we are all part or parts of the Universal Consciousness of creation and that the true divinity and connection of ALL is to be found within the depths of the oneself.

While ever I shall try to alert people to the true 'sb,' I would never say to anyone "don't follow him"'. This has to be a personal choice and I truly bless and am grateful for the wonderful choice we each have on our path. All I (or perhaps) any of us can really do is simply say, "look at this as a possibility and see what feels right in your own inner being. You may be getting more than you are aware of when you give your soul to 'sb'. You may be tying up your destiny for many lifetimes to come'.

to Anthony Thomas: Most excellent reasoning from you. Since adulthood, I always have held the attitude as to everyone alive being basically 'all in the same boat', so to speak, and treated them accordingly in essence. But some I'd preferably avoid completely! There is an apparent difference within this between you and I in that I do not see everyone as ever quite so helplessly non-responsible for their condition to the degree you appear to. Just possibly, you lay too much weight on the aspect of action (karma) that is conditioned, not on the self-conditioning action (i.e. present behaviour, which is not determined in itself)?
For these reasons, I find it justified to hold people to their word and hold them to the effects of their words. That is, if they write rubbish, I am free to rubbish this in return. (I very often refrain), But this is one way to learn; it was sometimes done to us by our masters at school and we learned the more and faster for that! Toughens the mind up without hardening it! Publishing opinions is all about influencing the perceptions of others... these are what one tries to develop (at best) and change by pressures (at worst). When publishing, one has to be aware that one is taking a risk with other people's time, feelings, values etc. and so are liable to get reactions that fit one's actual choice of words. I note that you do delete a number of postings... so your patience is not unending, and I heartily applaud that too!

Hello Sekharji, Re: 2804

"How did you handle the situation with the young boy? What did you say to the parents?....because I (have faced and do) faced similar circumstance."

You may be new to these boards and I and many others have run extensive posts regarding this victim and other victims. I think you may misunderstand my relation with the family regarding this tragedy....What was important to me at the time was the interview I conducted with both parents...I did not give all the details of the intense emotional situation when the boy fianlly told the details to his parents of the sexual molestations by SSB. It may be appropiate for interested parties to obtain the details from the parents themselves if they sincerely desire to know the truth. (I was, of course, very devastated having given so much of my life to this fraud avatar.)

A great influence on me regarding this matter was an hour long phone interview with a former US national Sai office bearer who is a very close personal friend of the family involved. This gentleman is a former coordinator of the South Central Region of the Sai organization here in the US and has been called into many interviews by SSB. I have known him for many years.... He has a masters degree in physics and I consider to be very credible. These molestations had led to his resignation.

"Some children believe that telling the parents is a futile effort and would create much dissension within the family so they keep quite."

I probably could not have put this into better words - especially why many victims in India do not seem to come forward.

I have not been faced with the exact experience expressed in question #2. "The parents sent the boy away and explained that they knew all about it. They actually said, "Who cares what happens in Puttaparthi. We are running a center here...that is what is important." "

You bring up many issues here as how devotees rationalize away the red flags....Thus the cult-like influence of SSB. I think many people fear they will loose friendships, etc. I think the bottum line is we tend to believe what we really want to believe when strong emotional attachments are involved. We refuse to see what right before us! This was my own experience when red flags appeared from time to time during the 27 years being a devotee.

Best wishes

Dennis J Hanisch

Edited by author 07-03-2002 02:19 PM
Informer 2832 Re .....' I do not see everyone as ever quite so helplessly non-responsible for their condition to the degree you appear to.

Actually, neither do I. I do not see anyone as helplesly non-responsible. In fact, the opposite is true. I feel that everyone is responsible for their own thoughts and actions. I would also feel someone is responsible for their words and the effect of their words. I guess I have found that all circumstances are different and it is best not to hold a fixed rule of behaviour for a given set of circumstances. For example, someone may write what I consider to be rubbish but I may paintakingly answer them, perhaps even as I might a child. Someone else may talk rubbish and I may reply with a heavy hand - or perhaps not at all. Also some things may appear as rubbish to me but that may be my inability to grasp the intention. Each communication and the intention behind it is different, don't you think?

It must be so easy to write rubbish or speak out in anger when someone is under the influence of 'sb'. Yes, we know they got themselves into that position, but is that any reason for a lack of compassion and understanding. Just think of the many things we all get ourselves into during a lifetime!! The old story -'let those among us who is without sin, cast the first stone' (to quote the Bible).

Of course, some posts that need to be deleted. They contain slander or rudeness and have no inherent worth. However, hopefully I am not deleting them as an act of impatience or anger, but out of a sense of rightness. That doesn't mean I am always patient with everyone. It is just something I am not too troubled with. Not one of my major life lessons perhaps. I am sure I have millions of others issues just waiting to be tackled!!!!!!!

Edited by author 07-03-2002 02:32 PM
I sinceely hope and pray that everyone takes the time to what Long-Time Devotee has posted on #2825. Here we have the KEYS to this whole matter!

Sincerely

Dennis J Hanisch

In case someone doesn't want to scroll back to #2825:

2cents: Here is why Anthony Thomas has given the anti-Christ title to this board and why he has singled out sathya sai of Puttaparthi: http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/clever.htm

/m2825
I was also impressed by the well written article by 'John Bright' that describes the situation accurately.

But I still find the situation here in the Netherlands a bit too crazy. There are simply too many young men here who were inapprioprately sexually approached by SSB. And when I try to tell a devotee about it then often s/he tells me that s/he doesn't want to hear it. How long should this go on?

#2837 AdriesKD said: "I try to tell a devotee about it then often s/he tells me that s/he doesn't want to hear it. How long should this go on?"

I am finding exactly the same thing. Devotees don't want to hear it. I hardly try anymore. One young man told me, "I see SB standing right in front of me now. He's right there." And he laughed. I'm very puzzled and also wonder how long it will be before devotees are willing to listen. It seems there was a devotee exodus in late 2000, and it's mostly quiet now.

Sanjay Dadlani is LTD.

Anthony what are etheric codes?How is SB connected to it?

Anthony Thomas:

After reading through your writings at http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/clever.htm I was inclined to distance myself away from this board. More so due to your claims to divine - or etheric - contacts to functioning codes. While I agree with most of the assessment of the general community here about SSB, I am wary of any one with such claims of etherial abilities.

Your subsequent postings...like #2828 however give me second thoughts:
...to look for someone who had many millions of devoted followers that would do his every bidding simply because he said so (denying their own inner gut feelings), who pretended to be light and love itself (including a few worthy projects to help the community), who made people dependant on him (I am god and you must not fall out of favour with me), used lots of words of truth to obtain that devotion (but meant none of them), and cleverly made himself seem like someone very special (manifesting objects,ash, appearing to people, etc). All the while saying -you are'also' god - but doing everything possible to make absolutely sure that no-one believed that and left quite sure that it was actually only him that was God.

There are subsequent exchanges on these lines, and I need time to read through them before commenting. The only reason I rush to post this is, if you are monitoring the board now, to request you to elaborate on your theories of 'codes'. Also, what are your thoughts on the Waco movement, and - I don't remember the name - of the other movement in California where a cult committed suicide when a comet was visible a few years back?

....will be right back!

Edited by author 07-03-2002 10:35 PM
2cents, I'd like to give my view on what you called Anthony's 'divine or etheric' contacts. I have the feeling that there is nothing unusual or out of the ordinary in having insight into the astral planes. Rather, it's the rest of us who don't have an ability that would be totally normal if we didn't put our concentration on the 'here and now.'

We've all developed various abilities in other lifetimes (if you accept that reincarnation is a possibility). Some of us were artists or writers or builders or farmers or ministers of state or just hung out. Having the ability to move consciously around the astral realms is just another ability as I see it. If we can believe the many stories of past-life recall, this kind of ability probably came from one or more lives as an Egyptain initiate. There were MANY initiates, apparently.

Of course if all this sounds far-out to you, and you don't accept that reincarnation is possible, then my post is going to sound off-the-wall to you. But the real test is in how Anthony comes across himself. He's pretty low key about who he is, doesn't claim to be divine or anything at all out of the ordinary. And you yourself quoted his words that seemed sensible to you.

We all have our roles to play in this life, and someone had to be able to see what is going on with SB in realms that most of us can't see. (Except during sleep, and then we don't remember when we wake up.)

I suspect that being able to see the astral plane has real drawbacks. You're not going to see only what is light and lovely. I've thought about this and decided I personally couldn't face some of the darker aspects of the invisible realms. I believe that every dark thought or action of humanity has a visible form on the astral.

Read the Harry Potter books. There are some real clues there!

You are correct at least about one thing - my apprehension about the astral plane and all that is associated with it. I am skeptic, but not dismissive at this time. I don't want to rush into a judgment here......let's see what AT has to say.

Since you brought up Harry Potter, I must ask you the character that you were most impressed about. Let's not go into the whys, since that would be a topic for a different board ;)

Re: Harry Potter, it isn't so much one character that impressed me as the twists and turns near the ends of the stories, especially in Prisoner of Azkaban. (Haven't read 'Fire' yet.) I would never have guessed. Also I was impressed with the interplay of good and evil (no hard and fast rules) and how the teachers and students were so human. No one is perfect, everyone has faults, even though you'd think that the teachers at a wizard's school would be..well...perfect.

If one thinks about these books, it is even more astounding that ANYONE would claim to be perfect, be all and know all as SB does. If there is any truth in the Harry Potter stories, it's that we live in a very imperfect universe where we have to work it out for ourselves with maybe a little help from the powers of light.

It's a conscious decision, choosing the light or dark side, and which side is which isn't always clear. This is why the whole SB question is so puzzling and elusive to so many. Each person has to think it all through very carefully, but that's very hard to do when SB is always telling devotees that the mind leads to the world (bad place) while the heart leads within to God. So I guess I like the thinker: Hermione.

It's late and I'm probably not saying this very well.

To Rose 2841 Fortunately, as I see it, it is not necessary for any of us to understand the principles of 'codes'. I believe it to be something as follows: The universe has a mathematical basis and perfection. The various plans for our incarnation are stored in code form, much as a computer stores data. If these codes are tampered with (can only be done if we give permission for someone to make changes within us)then our life path can go astray - or more specifically, we may not achieve what we came here to learn and do.

To 2cents Sorry, I have no comments to make regarding Waco. Many events occur on Earth, not all are pleasant. This board is for the exposure of 'sb'.

To most of you who speak here, you are not given to understand others who continue to follow Sai Baba. It is not your time to see or experience what they are experiencing - the reason why the devotees don't listen to your comments but continue on their own chosen path.

When you have experiences of your very own, that are awesome and special, you are not going to let them go for discussions here on this forum - or any other.

Maybe you should try and get in touch with yourselves and understand by rehashing old stories and discussions you are in fact deeply attached to Sai Baba - although in a negative way.

You cannot let him go.

That my friends is a very strong attachment. (smile).

Why not keep a diary of all the posts you make in one week, then add them up. You will find that you think of Sai Baba almost daily.

This board is (smile) not for helping others at all, but to serve your own Sai Baba appitite - and to provide self gratification of some sort.


smile again.

if your grand mother or,grand father or any 76 year old people-ask you to sleep with them in their bedroom,should we consider that as homosexual or lesbian tendencies?

Re 3cents 2849

Trust me - we are not attached to him in any way whatsoever. The various boards have helped many people who have had sincere doubts or who have had difficulty extracting themselves from him. That is who the board is aimed to and tries to help - not the active devotees. They are not in a space that is able to hear anything against their guru. They generally get angry or upset. I wonder why that is? I wonder why they aren't calm and balanced and loving and simply let any words spoken against him just pass them by.

Of course, people have many amazing experiences while connected to 'sb' - or any guru! People also have amazing experiences when alone, on drugs, on a mountain top, chanting, processing, in retreat, or cooking the dinner, fixing the car or pretty well every other aspect of life!!

>>The universe has a mathematical basis and perfection. The various plans for our incarnation are stored in code form, much as a computer stores data. If these codes are tampered with (can only be done if we give permission for someone to make changes within us)then our life path can go astray - or more specifically, we may not achieve what we came here to learn and do.<<Anthony,i do not understand the basis ,that it is mathematics which is perfect.Based on certain assumptions in mathematics we prove a rider.What if the assumption itself was inccorrect?

The incarnations if they are stored like a data bank,then who monitor's them?How is it coded?Who decodes it?I am excited to hear from you.I never heard anything like this before.You say our life can go astray.Who is to monitor what is going in right path?How you are able to tap into something like this.?Is this where you met SSB?How did your encounter with SSB go?How did you know it was SSB?

Edited by author 07-04-2002 03:48 PM
Yesterday I finally obtained the book 'The Guru Papers'. SSB is a text book case. Almost eerie to read it.

The book also contains a chapter 'Gurus and sexual manipulation'. And also 'Healing Crippled Self-Trust' which gives a good diagnosis but I have my doubts about the proposed cure.

Unfortunately I can't quote too much here for copyright reasons. A quote from the chapter 'Stage of Cults'.

>> Whenever a guru's power needs are not satisfied by expansion, he generally seeks more adulation from and control over those who have surrendered to him. [snip] Subtle of not so subtle warnings proliferate about the disastrous consequences of disobedience and of trusting outsiders. Statements like this become prevalent: "Disobedience to the guru brings countless lifetimes of suffering." <<


'The Guru Papers - Masks of Authoritarian Power' by Joel Kramer and Diana Alstad
ISBN 1-883319-00-5 Euro 23.46 $16.95 Publishing house Frog Ltd. California USA, 1993

Edited by author 07-04-2002 07:44 PM
#2848: Anthony, are you saying that if anyone accepts sb as their guru or allows him into their life in any way, that their codes automatically get tampered with? That it will then take longer for them to fulfill the purpose of an incarnation?

#2854: Andries, thanks for the book recommentation-Guru Papers.

2849-three cents

you wrote,
"To most of you who speak here, you are not given to understand others who continue to follow Sai Baba. It is not your time to see or experience what they are experiencing - the reason why the devotees don't listen to your comments but continue on their own chosen path."

Being around "?sathya?" sai baba(anti-christ) for 23years, some longer, most of us here understand and know exactly why others continue to follow the anti-christ.Most of us, just did not want to look,read,and talk about it. And three cents, most certainly would not come into this discussion board!

"When you have experiences of your very own, that are awesome and special, you are not going to let them go for discussions here on this forum - or any other."

We have! only to find that it is not ssb,anti-christ doing this but something greater than him that gives us the truth of experience.

"Maybe you should try and get in touch with yourselves and understand by rehashing old stories and discussions you are in fact deeply attached to Sai Baba - although in a negative way."

You would like to think so? It is by getting in touch with ourselves that we are attached to the revelation of truth and being aware of what is taking place.THATS WHAT SETS US FREE,getting it out into the open and using this discussion board helps to achieve that.Makes us breath easier.

"You cannot let him go."

Again you would like to think so. Letting Truth and Revelation take his place.

"That my friends is a very strong attachment. (smile)."

Again you would like to think so. More stronger attachment to Truth.

"Why not keep a diary of all the posts you make in one week, then add them up. You will find that you think of Sai Baba almost daily."

Again you would like to think so. A diary of Truth,that sets you free! Free from "?sathya?" sai baba-the anti-christ.

"This board is (smile) not for helping others at all, but to serve your own Sai Baba appitite - and to provide self gratification of some sort."

Again you would like to think so. An appitite for Truth, that sets you free from what you are insinuating.

"smile again."

I think so! Thats what Truth brings and also Love.

2851-a question
you wrote
"if your grand mother or,grand father or any 76 year old people-ask you to sleep with them in their bedroom,should we consider that as homosexual or lesbian tendencies?"

Only if they want and force sex after pretending to say sleep with you. Like pretending to be god in public and the devil in private. Public image - beyond sex,with revelations of, Private image- indulges in sex.

To Rose 2853 .........Re "Anthony, i do not understand the basis ,that it is mathematics which is perfect.Based on certain assumptions in mathematics we prove a rider.What if the assumption itself was incorrect? The incarnations if they are stored like a data bank,then who monitor's them?How is it coded?Who decodes it?I am excited to hear from you.I never heard anything like this before.You say our life can go astray.Who is to monitor what is going in right path?How you are able to tap into something like this.?Is this where you met SSB?How did your encounter with SSB go?How did you know it was SSB?"



I tend to avoid this area of codes stuff. The piece I wrote originally (referred to by a poster recently) was written ages ago for the people who understood that concept. I hoped it would help them make sense of what was happening from an energy perspective. To those people, such ideas are quite real and normal. To others who have never come across this stuff, it seems totally crazy. Indeed, as would anything we are not familar with. I remember once trying to explain what an 'ocean' was to a native who had never been outside his village. I failed completely. He could not believe or even imagine such a thing.

Discussing 'sb' from an energy perspective (however valid) will not help expose 'sb'. I believe it is his appalling abuse of young men that will wake the world up.


However, in answer to your questions:

Universal mathematics is perfect. School mathematics may not be.

If you think of the billions of words that would be contained in one persons plans for an incarnation, and multiply that by all the people on Earth, it makes a lot of sense to store this information in a form that doesn't require so much space! However, I wouldn't get caught up in the idea of codes. It refers to our plans for the incarnation. How they are stored is really irrelevant.

We code our own plans prior to incarnating.

Then codes are automatically translated into concept or thought form as we need a particular section for for our life. eg If you had planned on becoming an engineer in this incarnation, as that time approached, all the things you had arranged to occur in your life that was supposed to help you achieve that goal, would be 'downloaded' by you (unconsciously) and become available to you in thought form. That doesn't mean you arrange everything. Just some key things that could help. YOU chose them. It wasn't 'fate'. All the other things that happen in our life come from choices made within the incarnation, God, whatever.

We basically monitor our own lifetime, but I also believe we are helped in this. Prior to incarnating we make agreements with others to help direct us along our way. Also, of course, there is God and how one perceives that assistance.

I think we each tap into the things that are relevant to our role and plans here. If you have chosen to be an artist, you would perhaps have a heightened sense of colour and balance. Much more than I, for example, who would have trouble drawing a line!!

Yes, this is where I met 'sb'. All beings have their own energy vibration, that is recognisable. His is unmistakable!! By the way, all 'sb' devotees feel a bit like 'sb'. This happens because 'sb' infiltrates and takes over their energy. People who can sense vibration and energy, can tell who is a devotee and who is not, purely by that. We all recognise some people in this way, but we do it subconsciously. This is what is happening when we meet someone and feel immediately comfortable with them or we immediately distrust someone. We have often known them previously and it is their vibration we are recognising.





To Long time devotee 2855 ........ Yes, it is highly likely that devotees life plans are altered by 'sb.' He has no desire to see people carry out any goals that will help and serve others - and many people's plans include such things. He would probably only alter important ones and leave intact some lesser goals, so the person maintains some feeling of rightness about their life. He often gives people some other purpose, often during sleep or visitations. These goals always seem valid and worthwhile.

If someomes plans (codes) are altered, then naturally they are going to remain in that state until something or someone changes them back. This wouldn't happen until the person fully disconnected from him - and fully reconnected to Source/Light/Creation. Codes can only be altered by the person's free will. When someone hands themselves over to 'sb,' they tend to do so rather completely. Devotees call on him to help them, save them and let him do whatever he likes with their life. That is a free will.



To saisex 2856 Thank you for your answers that speak for so many.

"The appalling use of young men."

One boy in California whose name is well known and who wrote a diary about his appalling treatment.

His father I understand is till a full time devotee.

Doesn't seem like his father is too concerned about the treatment.

It is your mind luv that is geared towards this abuse, not Sai Baba nor his followers.

But the allegation's have not been proved.Your case has been referred to a lower court.In the light of that revealation we have to assume he is innocent and not guilty,right.?

>>Only if they want and force sex after pretending to say sleep with you. Like pretending to be god in public and the devil in private. Public image - beyond sex,with revelations of, Private image- indulges in sex.<<

>>But the allegation's have not been proved.Your case has been referred to a lower court.In the light of that revealation we have to assume he is innocent and not guilty,right.?<<

I can't believe this incredible illogic. The victims and ex-devotees are out there for everybody to contact. But if you think that a person who has molested probably hundreds of boys and young men is innocent and in addition to that God Almighty then this is your choice - let alone the permanent lying and cheating of him:

Watch the videos:
http://www.sathyasaivictims.com/newvideos

Read the material available:
http://www.exbaba.com

Try to contact some ex-devotees and/or victims if you wish and make your decision.

Thanks,

Alex

/m2860

>>But the allegation's have not been proved.Your case has been referred to a lower court.In the light of that revealation we have to assume he is innocent and not guilty,right.?<<

Absolutely Correct !! Till anyone is proven guilty in a Court, by due process, he/she should be "presumed innocent", and this holds true for Sai Baba too, as far as the legal position goes. But what people privately believe is their own business, and lots of people may not need a court verdict to believe that SSB is a fraud.

Applying the same logic above ,to SSB's "miracles", we have to naturally conclude, that till "miracles" are scientifically proven in laboratories , we have to assume that all such "miracles" are frauds and fakes, till proved to be true. So , we have to assume that Sai Baba is a fake, till he proves scientifically that he is not.

Thanks,

Hari Sampath

Re: #2858 Anthony, we at Sunrise thank you for answering Rose's question about codes, since we have been curious about them ever since we posted 'A Very Clever Setup.' We are sure that every person who read your article was curious about codes, so we think it's a good idea that you commented on them. Sometimes there's nothing more frustrating than unsatisfied curiosity.

It seems that you don't want to be known as a teacher and so avoid areas most people don't understand. But the code comments were needed. Thank you. They will be appended to your article on Sunrise.

/m2862

Smart as always. :-)

Not like me. ;-(

Sir

If you could kindly let me know,as which laboratory Jesus Christ,Lord Shri Krishnaji,Lord Shri Shivaji etc and other such god and goddeses have been subjected to,i could perhaps persuade Shri Sathya Babaji to see your logic.Untill such time we normal human beings accept Shri Babaji's awesome powers and get excited when we hear,see,and undergo new miracles.Please do not get offended.

>>Applying the same logic above ,to SSB's "miracles", we have to naturally conclude, that till "miracles" are scientifically proven in laboratories , we have to assume that all such "miracles" are frauds and fakes, till proved to be true. So , we have to assume that Sai Baba is a fake, till he proves scientifically that he is not.<<

Shri Alecxji

I fully understand your paranoid thinking.For every sathya sai (alleged)victims,i can parade equal or more number of people who will vouch for sathya sai babaji.People with extrordinary qualifications,status in society,ordinary people,and people like the gopikas of shri krishnaji.For you i am illogical.But Sir,faith itself is inexplicable.May i ask whom you have faith in?

The same videos that you wish to intrepet in your way,can be viewd by some one else differently,is it not?You either have faith or you do not?Things do not change just by talking to some strange people or seeing some clips from a video,or did it for you?

We are talking about a law suit which was referred by the higest court in the land to a lower court due technical reasons.After more than one year we come to hear about it in a very very strange manner.Your lot has some very serious explaining to do to people who have been extremely offended the manner in which you have behaved.Everyone of us are not strong will powered people.

Some have been shattered beyond repair.Untill proper authorities with proper evidence condemn babaji,i will not ANY more accept your versions of this allegations.The benefit of doubt is for babaji.

Sathya Sai victims(alleged) version has to be corroborated with evidence with proper judicial authorities who are adept in such matters.Investigators have to investigate each and every allegation and then prove that babaji is indeed very bad.

The court reference to lower court has not YET made to headlines in India today or other such magazines or newspapers,WHY?Don't you all see,what makes news and what does not?How come none of the websites tom tom this particularly embarassing FACT?There in lies the deceit,wickedness,and cunningness of people,to make babaji look bad.

Hi Dragonslayer re 2863 I have, of course, explained it all before on other boards. I do understand that when my article gets mentioned, the need for explanations will follow. This is OK and needs to be done.


To 'a question' re 2866.
All of us make personal choices as to our life path and our destiny. We each see things with different eyes. In the end, all that matters is that each person follows what is truth for them.

Much truth is beyond that which is seen with the eyes. Much of our wisdom must ultimately come from the pure gut feeling of spirit we are all blessed with.

Dear questioner,

I am not interested in finding my truth by court decisions. Even if sb will never be sentenced the truth is that he is a molestor, a cheat and a liar - those are facts.

Whether he is anything more than that we currently do not know. So as I have stated once before, there is ABSOLUTELY NO reason for me to follow a being that is claiming to be God Almighty but acts quite contrary. Why should I? Why should anyone?

However, sb claimed that he will lift a mountain range soon, as well as many other highly unlikely seeming things.
If he will do ONLY ONE of them, I probably have to rethink the whole matter.

As longs as this is not the case I have to act according to my moral and ethical convictions, otherwise I would make myself karmically blamable.

How can you devote yourself to a being regarding that you have your doubts?

Thanks,

Alex

Edited by author 07-05-2002 02:44 PM
Anthony, I appreciate that you answered Rose's question about codes (and my question too). I had a big "What?" in my mind about those codes. Now I'm out of kindergarten at least. It turns out to be a simple explanation: Our plans for an incarnation.

Hi Lucideye re 2868

'sb' could lift the the entire Andes range and it wouldn't change my opinion of him one bit. Such feats do not determine God. They may determine someone who has tapped into the universal energy - even as an anti-christ might!! It is rumoured that Hitler had access to some occult energy.

You are right Alex, to follow your conscience. However, you should not force others or insist that others, see it as you do.
Therefore there is no reason to be angry when others choose their own way. Right?

Hi three cents,

I know many details of the the 15 (now 18) year old boy from the Hemet Sai center in California who was sexually molested by SSB. For example, did you know that the boy did not at first tell the mother of the molestations? She took it upon herself to look at the diary after the boy started to act strangely. Did you know that the mother wrote about the molestations from India directly to a prominent ex-devotee who many on this board would recognize? Did you know that the boy was known to always keep a diary when he travelled? The family had even previoulsy published a diary diary regarding his thoughts regarding places he visited, etc.

Yes, you are correct--the father justifies the molestations. But at least be fair. The mother is an ex-devotee.

Please, I pray, investigate the lives of the true saints of India. They always set a standard for those on a lower level of spiritual attainment.

SSB is certainly not a purna avatar or a true guru and not who he cliams to be!!

Best wishes, Dennis

>>I am not interested in finding my truth by court decisions. Even if sb will never be sentenced the truth is that he is a molestor, a cheat and a liar - those are facts.<<

facts,determined by whose authority?Which court of law,has entertained them as FACTS?

>>How can you devote yourself to a being regarding that you have your doubts?<<

you may have doubts,and hence your line of reasoning.unless a person is convicted of criminal behaviour,how do you condemn?which proof has been submitted as evidence and corraborated?what is the alibis that are established for ssb or the victims?this is a civilised world,we are not barbarians,unlike the Germans in 1940-1945.

>>Why should I? Why should anyone?<<

the first part of your feelings,you are entitled to it.the second part of your feelings,Sir,WHO are you?What have you done to societies nagging evil?What exactly is your status in your own country?Why at all should we believe you?What makes you the moral authority over ssb?

>>All of us make personal choices as to our life path and our destiny. We each see things with different eyes. In the end, all that matters is that each person follows what is truth for them.

Much truth is beyond that which is seen with the eyes. Much of our wisdom must ultimately come from the pure gut feeling of spirit we are all blessed with.<<

truth is unique for each person.you speak with much wisdom.eacg has their own gut feeling.lets leave it at that.rather than concluding about an individuals character based on flimsy grounds.

>>As longs as this is not the case I have to act according to my moral and ethical convictions, otherwise I would make myself karmically blamable.<<

who keeps track of your karma?how does an individual know or tab of his karma?by what standard you determine karma?you have your ethical and moral convictions-great.you should have.everyone of us should have it.that is the right of every individual in this world.this includes ssb also.

>>They always set a standard for those on a lower level of spiritual attainment.

SSB is certainly not a purna avatar or a true guru and not who he cliams to be!!<<

who has made measurement for standards of spiritual development?what is this lower level of spiritual attainment?who can endorse such a thing?what do you mean by purna avatar or a sampoorna avatar?how do you with conviction say ssb is not a true guru?what are your figures and facts?stop this blind blabbering.get real.prove with solid proof.diaries,i can give written by young boys,young men,praising sky high about ssb?i will deliver them in tons to your place.is that it,all you have say.come on.grow up,for christ sake.

<<<Please, I pray, investigate the lives of the true saints of India. They always set a standard for those on a lower level of spiritual attainment.>>>

Dennis, I think that oneday you may find these words to be not exactly accurate. There are many kinds of "teachers" and holy men (saints ) in this world...many of them not understood by "normal" people.
SB's role may not be to "set an example" . When I was a devotee, I saw his purpose as something completely different than that. I believe it is possible that SB's purpose is a completely hidden one...hidden from view of humanity. He's not here to be a personal guru to individuals.

Hello Anthony,

Of course, you are right. Nevertheless, I would be sufficiently impressed to rethink some of the things concerned and would have to dig deeper into it. I don't think I would change my opinion, at least not due to a performance of a miracle by sb, but perhaps due to some true inner revelation - we never know.

As long as this doesn't apply I am convinced that sb is a cheat and have to act according to my convictions as already mentioned, and this imo is the only relevant thing, since even if sb would turn out to be an avatar I wouldn't be blamable for my deeds since I would have sticked to truth and goodness - no more no less.

But contrary, if sb turns out to be a cheat - what is highly likely - many people involved in the cover-up as well as still devotees aware of the "misdeeds" will partly be deeply karmically guilty and perhaps even worse, would have given away decades of their lives by having adhered to this fake guru and perhaps would fail entirely with their existential program (plan about what you came here to achieve in this life; for more information: books of Waldo Viera http://iipc.org).

Thanks,

Alex

Your reasoning is that for some people sb is god and for some he isn't. But there is only one possibility. Either he is God or he isn't. It's really that simple. And I do not refer to the Advaita approach, i.e. everything and everybody is God - then everybody could claim he/she is God Almighty.

Discussing with you is really hard - you ask many questions. It is not a fruitful discussion - but just keep in mind that I merely express my beliefs and knowledge of some *facts* of the situation.

I feel (hello Beth :-)) that you are very disturbed by the alegations but I cannot help you here. If you are not willing to "do a very slow and careful investigation" (/m2782) it is very difficult to know what to believe or not.

Thanks,

Alex

"a very slow and careful investigation"

Alex, please don't start parroting Dennis...He repeats that phrase way too much as it is....lol.

My dear Alex. I was as shocked by the allegations as anyone else was back in February of 2000, when I first found out about them. But, that was more than 2 years ago...I've gotten over the shock. And since then, I have asked my inner self "what is going on" and I've gotten answers , for myself, about that.

I have also read and have investigated.. and I have read somemore, and investigated somemore...and I have talked to people and talked to people and listened to people and listened to people...and asked many many questions...

And..........I still can't "lynch" Sai Baba yet for anything. Until I know what is really happening, I don't have to make a difinitive judgement.

But, bottom line, I'm very happy with my warm and fuzzy relationship with my selves these days... my inner self, my outer self, my HIGH SELF...and am not the least disturbed about Sai Baba or his fate or his activities there in PN.

I don't hate you either. :-)

May I ask you why you are so convinced of the "divinity" of sb?

Has any court decided that he is God? Has he been scientifically investigated by any authorities?
So why do you believe that he is God? Just because he or some people say so?

See your double standards?

What if sb never gets sentenced? What if he is a paedophile nevertheless (and there's much proof for this)?

You are very emotional and defensive when it comes to sb - that shows to me how deeply you are attached to the form. I have no problem considering sb as NOT God. What is so difficult with this?

I was a devotee as well and have visited him twice, but for me sb is not important. I love God and give not much importance to this orange man.

Very best wishes,

Alex

Hello Beth :-)

You got me wrong (your intuition failed? ;-)) *joking*

I mentioned you when I wrote "I feel" because that's one of your favourite phrases. :-)
The remark was directed to "a question".

Alex

>>Has any court decided that he is God? Has he been scientifically investigated by any authorities?
So why do you believe that he is God? Just because he or some people say so? <<

has any court decided jesus is god?has jesus been sceitifically investigated by authorities?so why dp people belive jesus is god?just because some people say so?

:-)

Of course, you are right. But unfortunately Jesus is not the topic here. So please stay on topic. Jesus is passé and moreover wasn't accused of paedophilia, abuse and trickery and didn't claim to be God Almighty.

Thanks,

Alex

Anthony Thomas: The snowcrest article was posted here in response to my question /m2824 by LTD in /m2825. I'm happy to see that your further explanations would be added to the site. There were further questions that I had, especially on Waco that you did not elaborate. The reason that I posted those questions is due to the similarity in (a) the mentality and blind faith of the cults and (b) the qualities of the leaders. May be another time, another board?

I might switch to another name due to another correspondent calling himself as three cents......(wry smiles).

Edited by author 07-05-2002 08:52 PM
This is a test for page 1. Does anyone else have missing words and lines on this page?

Edited by author 07-05-2002 09:07 PM
These posts deleted to fix board formatting problems. The messages can be re-posted by typing directly in the board message box.

Anthony Thomas' recent comments have been added to his sunrise article, "A Very Clever Setup." (Inner Planes page) http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/index.htm

Hello.

Today is 5th July, and marks exactly one year since I got free from the evil clutches of Sai Baba.

I have prepared an article that will hopefully provoke some entertaining discussion and muses.

The article, entitled 'Sai Baba - Shiva or Sadhaka?' can be downloaded/viewed from the Files area of the Expose Forum [1], and should hopefully be available to view on some websites soon.

What have I achieved after one year? I have achieved a much calmer state of mind, both mentally and spiritually. I am relieved of a huge amount of pressure, the pressure that was put on me by SB to be a "perfect" devotee despite having no clear idea of how to reach "perfection." The pressure of journeying spiritually at a pace that suits me instead of recklessly fast without knowledge of a goal and whether I would reach it or not. The pressure of implementing "ridiculous" teachings in an environment that looks down on spiritual values. The pressure of knowing that you are being WATCHED all the time.

What do I feel now? As I said, I feel much calmer and I have a clearer idea of God and spirituality, which would certainly never have happened had I not left Sai Baba.

Where do I go from here? ONWARDS!

Sanjay

And no, I am not "Long Time Devotee" or anyone else. I only post under my own name.

Thank you, Sanjay.

Happy Anniversary Sanjay!

Edited by author 07-05-2002 11:48 PM
2860-a question
you wrote
"But the allegation's have not been proved.Your case has been referred to a lower court.In the light of that revealation we have to assume he is innocent and not guilty,right.?"

It will be a matter of time,as all things on this earth, for this process to take place. No cover-ups and sweeping these charges under the table,so to speak.eg.the 1993 murders in ssb-anti christ's bed room. There is no openness when it concerns this 1993 murders it seems. Why all this secretive silence? Just what goes on in his bed room?

A growing number of people coming forward with these charges.
These people are up against a billion dollar industry around ssb-anti christ figure.A good chance for these people to bring charges even against the ssb-anti-christ's organization in many countries and the office bearers of the organization.

It is now a common fact that ssb-anti-christ does genital manipulation,that alone suggests that these charges are a fact as well.Why was this practice of genital manipulation not published in his many propaganda books published by his organization? Where amongst his dicourses and talks this is not revealed? Why all this sectretive silence on this practice made public? Again very secretive and silence. This fact, gives cause for growing suspicion that these allegations need to be investigated and brought to light of day. The fact to assume his innocence is growing less and him being guilty grows more by the day is real.

Consequently why this discussion board for the Truth to come out into the open. To let people know that there voices and cries are being heard of what ssb-anti-christ has done to them.

2865-a question

"Sir

If you could kindly let me know,as which laboratory Jesus Christ,Lord Shri Krishnaji,Lord Shri Shivaji etc and other such god and goddeses have been subjected to,i could perhaps persuade Shri Sathya Babaji to see your logic.Untill such time we normal human beings accept Shri Babaji's awesome powers and get excited when we hear,see,and undergo new miracles.Please do not get offended."

ssb-anti-christ has not lifted up a mountain yet, he only spirts vibuthi which runs-out very quickly from his hand. Hardly "awesome powers" let alone to speak of new ones to get excited about.

looks like retro needs SSB's help!

seriously...

Out in the west, in cases of child molestation and/or rape, the victim could be asked questions on the private parts of the alleged perpetuator. One might remember the Michael Jackson investigation about a decade back.

As much sensitive this issue is, have the victims been approached on this? Also, questions like what does SSB wear underneath his saffron robes? are the victims consistent on this?

2893-a question

"you have no evidence which can contribute as irrefutable proof to convict ssb".

Just the fact that ssb-anti-christ does genital manipilation and wants to keep it secret is a good starting point.

2894 a question

"if this was your grouse then the catholic church would have to fold.the pedophilia cases being tried are much too open for anyones comfort.first try to put your bloody house in order before you start with ssb".

You see, ssb-anti-christ is the one being accused, and that gives you discomfort.


"yes yes we know about hanumanji lifting mountains.krishnaji lifting mountains with his little finger.ssb speak in metaphors.if you dont understand then just shut up.by doing all this ssb is where he is.why dont you challenge and do exactly what ssb does if it was so easy and tricks.who is stopping you.let me see how many devotees will surround you.disgusting".

Exactly! what has this got to do with genital manipulation?
What kind of metaphors can he speak and materialize with genital manipulation? We do not understand, can you explain ssb-anti-christ's metaphors of genital manipulation.While you are at it, explain why he runs out of vibuthi just as it starts? Hardly an endless supply of vibuthi! Hardly to get excited about.

Edited by author 07-06-2002 02:43 AM
'a question' sounds like Reddy or someone similar. I see him as a distraction, taking away from the purpose of the board. Posts #2893 and #2894 are rude and pointless. I think he only wants to argue.

From an article by Robert Priddy, posted on Ex-baba on July 4, 2002:

According to the journalist Mick Brown of the Sunday Telegraph (12 November 2000), Bhatia resigned from his post at the hospital in December 1999 and is now an administrator at a hospital in New Delhi. Mick Brown stated:

"Contacted by phone, Bhatia said that he had become a devotee of Sai Baba in 1971, at the age of 20, and that he had sexual relations with Sai Baba for "15 or 16 years". In that time, he said, he was also aware that Sai Baba had relations with "many, many" students from the college and school, and with devotees from overseas."

The Sunday Telegraph article gained much prominence and was soon republished around the world in a number of prominent dailies in other languages. Dr. Bhatia fell mysteriously silent! He has not been willing to stand forth and repeat his allegations since shortly thereafter. This case illustrates the reach of SB's power, since Bhatia will not repeat any of the massive allegations he came out with when he had been expelled from all Sai connections. He describes how his life was threatened at Puttaparti by thugs, and left for Delhi, where he took employment as a doctor..."

http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex-baba/english.html

Sanjay. That is really wonderful. Freedom of spirit. Happy anniversary.


Beth The only thing you need to be sure of is WHERE you got your answers from! Anyone still connected to 'sb' will have their 'answers' provided by him. No matter where the answers seem be coming from or in what form, etc. - they willbe coming from him. To get a true answer from the universe, you first have to disconnect completely from 'sb'. Otherwise, he will make it seem all right.

BETH Re 2875 ..........I believe it is possible that SB's purpose is a completely hidden one...hidden from view of humanity.

You are certainly right about that!!

                   ...........He's not here to be a personal guru to individuals.

I disagree. He very much wants individual followers. He needs their energy and souls. He doesn't care if they physically come to the ashram or not, as long as they give themselves to him. He needs some to come to the ashram are so he can spot nice boys and can make a more personal contact to rich and influential people.



Lucideye re 2876 It is always devastating to discover later that you have caused harm. But I guess that is life and karma. Someone in a small foreign country approached me recently with the news that they had been solely responsible for introducing 'sb' to the people in their country and that many had followed him. This person had not been a devotee themselves, but had his picture in the house (so many do). They said they had throughly looked at all the expose evidence, made enquiries and spent some time in silence, and was upset at realising what they had done - and how should they correct this. I said guilt doesn't help anything and to realise they did what they thought was right at the time. Now just do what their heart led them to do and if they were meant to correct something, it would become clear.

To a question 2873

I think you may have mixed up messages from Hari and myself.

What sort of proof do you need for abuse?

The father of the youth who wrote the diaries remains a devotee, even after reading his own son's words. Therefore, the father must suspect the evidence of the boy and does not believe him.

Why? Because the father obviously knows the son very well and his habits and intentions. He also knows well the habits and intentions of SB, and has based his decision on what he feels in his heart to be true.

Do you feel that a father would neglect his own son's statement if he thought he was telling the truth?


I doubt it - parents are protective of their offspring.

I suspect this boy wanted to leave the SB fold and all its restrictions ( enforced by his overly protective parents) to enjoy the typical main stream life of other ordinary teenagers.

Your message rings true to me. I also heard the boys often met, then discussed between themselves what happened in the interview room.They would be laughing and joking about it all the time.

I bet they are really having a hoot of a time reading this forum.

/m2876
Alex wrote:
>>But contrary, if sb turns out to be a cheat - what is highly likely - many people involved in the cover-up as well as still devotees aware of the "misdeeds" will partly be deeply karmically guilty and perhaps even worse, would have given away decades of their lives by having adhered to this fake guru<<

Alex, I think this is a very harsh judgement of sincere but self deluded devotees who were on a quest for God and Truth and fell into SSB's trap. I don't think they deserve this. I am not talking about people who lost faith but continue to keep the facade.

You have to understand that for some devotees their faith in SSB forms their identity. Their whole world would collapse if they come to conclusion that SSB is a fraud.

If it hadn't it been for a series of coincidences I would still have been a devotee.

Kind regards, Andries

Beautiful story today by Sanjay K. Dadlani on http://www.exbaba.com

Click English - > News

To three cents 2905
Have you never heard the countless stories of children who tell their mother that their father is abusing them - only to have the mother tell them they are lying!

You live with rose coloued glasses if you believe that all fathers who are devotees of 'sb' would necessarily believe their chilren about his abuse. Probably the vast majority would not. Not only do they believe he is god and can therefore do no wrong, they are also being heavily influenced in their ability to see truth, by his energy in their space.

To AndriesKD re 2907
Alex did say ....many people involved in the cover-up as well as still devotees aware of the "misdeeds"

I think he was pretty specific there.

Edited by author 07-06-2002 07:28 AM
/m2907
Anthony, there are many levels of awareness. The lowest level of awareness is hearing 'rumours' about oilings. The highest level of awareness is getting sexually molested yourself and knowing that SSB does it with many other young men or boys.

Every level of awareness in between is possible. It may even be possible to remain a devotee (at least for some time) when having the highest level of awareness.

Kind regards, Andries

I am a former student of Swami.Now i am in the US pursuing my masters.There are some parts true here but not all.I have slept inside the room of Swami along with three other boys.Nothing like how it is described in this forum has ever happened.You do not have any idea what you keep posting.It is very tough regimen out there and Swami is a task master.But he is also loving and caring for students.Jealous boys,are sometimes carrying tales with their own inputs.All these are pure figment of imagination.

<<<ssb-anti-christ has not lifted up a mountain yet, he only spirts vibuthi which runs-out very quickly from his hand. Hardly "awesome powers" let alone to speak of new ones to get excited about.>>>

oh brother!! shame shame that you are so shallow, yet speak as if you actually have awareness and knowledge.

Tim,

Why does Swami have the boys sleep in his room?

It would be interesting to have the correct reasons posted here for the benefit of us who are interested in the truth.

thanks

I do not believe that there is a god.There is no god.I am a theist.Those who Believe In god are Fools.

I meant to say Atheist.Jesus Christ is not a God.So there is no Anti Christ.So Sathya Sai Buba is Not an Anti Christ.So Sathya Sai baba is Not a God.Those who believe in god are Fools.

Re 2912

'sb' does seem to have specific taste in young men. Not all young men in his ashram are molested!

say10 Thank you for your opinion. We each have our beliefs regarding the creation of the universe, based on our personal experiences of life and understanding.

Edited by author 07-06-2002 01:09 PM
Re:2875

>>Dennis, I think that oneday yu will find these words to be not exactly accurate. Thee are many kinds of "teachers" and holy men (saints) in this world.........SB's role may not to "set an example,"<<

Beth, you literally amaze me some times! In my research and many experiences starting over 50 years ago concerning my spiritual search...., true saints who have experienced and control both types of samadhi are very rare. This is the key to this subject that you do not know or will not admit. Of course, there are many spiritual teachers considered gurus who have reached the state of final emancipation. In some cases, they have a role in the scheme of things if there motives are pure and sincere. But I have also experienced many false gurus and those who have fallen. Frankly, I think you are diluted or misinformed -- And I mean to say that kindly.

Common sense dicates that one who claims to be Krishna, Rama, The Father who sent Jesus Christ, and the ULTIMATE ABSOLUTE would set an example for mandkind. He would live a beautiful life chiseled for the ages. I have the humility to admit that I have a lot more to learn. Please admit the same.

Sincerely, Dennis

Edited by author 07-06-2002 01:26 PM
Hi Three cents, Re: 2905

>>Therefore, the father must suspect the evidence of the boy and does not believe him.<<

I am a close friend of an of an ex- devotee who talks to the father on a regular basis. No, the father does admit the molestations are true! As I have stated on this board--he justifies the molestations!

This should be a red flag for everyone regarding the cult-like influence of SSB and the organization. People feel that they are going to loose eveything when they give up SSB!

Also people feel that I am redundant with the terms "a slow and careful investigation." But I do not make a statement unless I have researched it. Please do the same and do not speculate.

By the way, I also talked 45 minutes to the 15 year old boy's former Balvikas teacher who is still a devotee. At no time did she deny the molestations and seemed to justify them during our conversation. This is my take on this.

Best wishes, Dennis

Yes Marswalker?... And what WAS the justification for molesting young boys according to the father and the balvikas teacher? You left that out.

What rationalizations for molesting? Please.

Was it rationalizations/justification...or was it that SB was doing something OTHER than sexually molesting these boys?

I really don't know how oral sex with unwilling boys and young men can be justified as "divine" behaviour. That's really too deep for me (or perhaps I'm not sick enough) ;(

Andries,
You might be right - but however, truth is not always easy.

Best wishes,

Alex

I wonder what the father and teacher really think of the boy - I'd say not much! Nobody who suspected abuse of children would stay in the fold.

What is true and known to us that the boy can write a pretty damning diary twisted no doubt, to his own idea of what happened. (smile, wink, wink.)

Dear Beth and All, Re: correction to 2918

Sorry, but I left out the key word "not". To understand my train of thought, the extract should read, "Of course, there are many spiritual teaches considered gurus who have not reached the state of final emancipation. In some cases they have a role in the scheme of things if there motives are pure and sincere.....

The point I was trying to make is that some not liberated souls may have a role in teaching metaphysical and spiritual subjects in the divine plan or the scheme of things.

Best wishes, Dennis

Beth, Re:2920

>>And what WAS the justification for molesting young boys according to the father andthe Balvikas teacher? You left that out.<<

Since you take me to task for conducting a "slow and careful investigation," I challenge you to make a call to the balvikas teacher yourself. Also track down the father of the 15 year old boy yourself. He is back in the US from his last trip. It shouldn't be too difficult. Contact the Hemet Sai center in Southern California!!

Sincerely, Dennis

To reply to your question "Why does Swami have the boys sleep in his room?

It would be interesting to have the correct reasons posted here for the benefit of us who are interested in the truth".



It is customary for Swami to have boys assist him in making his bed,massage his legs especially his calf muscles.Have his room in readiness.Have his toiletries in order.His towels etc in readiness.Just have somebody at beck and call.

It is not like how it has been projected here so far.Contrary to that it is a sheer delight to serve someone whom you love and respect dearly.Elder's in India are so much respected,cared and loved.It is very good lesson.


For the seeker's of truth it is sheer delight and happiness that we students find in serving Swami.Untrue stories and canards are being spread and i simply do not understand Swami's silence in all these matters.But i have noticed Swami has always come unscathed despite such vituperative rumours and he even becomes much much stronger in his service to manlind.

Today thanks to Swami i am a better Christian.I understand and love my religion exceptionally more.I go to my Church.My priest thankfully does not judge my background but encourages Bible Study.

Alex,the sickness is in discussing issues which no one can say with certainty whether it is true or false.Having lived in hostel there,i know how hard it can be especially when you are in your teens.Life is very strict there.Swami's standards are very high.All of us cannot withstand such rigourous discipline.Many things i never understood,but looking back,what a foundation Swami has been encouraging for us students.I must say a word of Thanks to my teachers.Each and everyone of them tirelessly dedicated to their profession.

India is a wonderful place.It has its bad people.But then which country is perfect.Swami is like a breath of fresh air.People emulate him as a role model.It is sad politics and madness are doing all this.I pray for each and every tormented soul here possesed with demons.May the Father guide You.

As I understand it no one who speaks here has ever been molested by SB. Anthony Thomas was never a devotee and most others have but limited experiences. And A.T. has the cheak to say he is living in light.

Ye Gods! If he is in light - I am glad to be somewhere else. :) (hell has to be a better choice.)

And as far as S.B. is concerned. I find it strange that you all have sooooo much interest in this subject that does not now, or never has concerned you physcially or emotionally.

What I feel this 15 year old boy provides for all of you, is gratification for bad and dark thoughts to be manifested and supported by others of a like dark mind.

You hate S.B. and the hatred is so great you continue on with these strange allegations day in and day out - not understanding that for one moment, that you are dwelling on the negative and profain.

This board has nothing to do with SB, but has far more to do with those that post negatively and speak about homosexuals acts.

I don't know how you think that your negative thoughts and darkness is doing anyone any good, not least the public.

Every spritual teacher from J.C. down to the present day, has spoken clearly and loudly about the virture of not harming anyone. Yet, you continue to bad-mouth SB not once but daily.

shame.

Rose wrote:
>>In this case it is Sai Baba and he is not saying a word. I think his silence speaks volumes.<<

I don't think so. Have you read the christmas speech 2000?
Here are is an extract:

"At that time, there was only one Judas, but today there are many such 'Judases'. [..] Why are they indulging in false propaganda? They are doing so due to their greed for money."

"[...]Some foreigners are trying to bribe them, asking them to fabricate stories against Sathya Sai Baba. [...] But there are some traitors like Judas, who are being bribed to level false charges against Sai Baba."

"[...] Betrayal of God is the worst of all sins. Such betrayal can never be atoned in any number of births. So, never try to betray God."

Here is the whole speech.
http://www.sathyasai.org/discour/2000/d001225.html

Sai Baba lying again and again.

Some more lies:

"You must have heard people say that mine is all magic. But the manifestation of divine power must not be interpreted in terms of magic. Magicians play their tricks for earning their maintenance, worldly fame, and wealth. They are based on falsehood and they thrive on deceit, but this body could never stoop to such a low level. This body has come through the Lord's resolve to come. That resolve is intended to uphold truth (sathya).[...]"
Sathya Sai Baba (Birthday Discourse November, 23rd 1968)

But why he stoops so often to such a low level?
http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex-baba/engels/movies.html

"Some of the elders sitting in the Verandah are indulging in gossip; It is finding its way into the Internet. Anyone found talking in the Verandah should be sent out immediately, whosoever it may be. All those who give misleading information about what Swami tells them in the interview room should also be thrown out. I will never call such people for interview again. Only those who observe silence are good people. [...] Swami has nothing to do with Internet. Not only now, even in future also You should not indulge in such wrong activities. This disease' has its roots in cities and is spreading like wild fire into villages polluting the village environment..."
Sathya Sai Baba (discourse 15 Oct. 1999)

No comment on that one.

Thanks,

Alex