Please don't think everyone in the West is thinking the Anti-Christ is Sai Baba.

The title Anti-Christ as used by Anthony is misleading.

The modern term 'anti-christ' means not a person at all, but refers to the dark forces in the world. Or nearer home, the dark side of one's soul.

The real term Anti-Christ does not mean any living being.

Although some people may use Anti-Christ when speaking of a Hitler 'type' character.

I don't feel Sai Baba is a Hitler nor do I expect most Western people. (The majority of people anyway, have no knowledge of Sai - either good or bad.)

Your post was excellent.

Please continue to enlighten us.

observer from the West.

Edited by author 06-26-2002 03:00 PM
Though Parthi Baba may be unique in the extent of his power and influence, the psychic effect he has on others isn't so unusual. I have collected these quotes:

From QT:

Message 2169 06-19-2002 04:50 PM ET (US)
  
Some similarities to the Scorpion Incident in the early life of sb, from biographical notes of Aliester Crowley:

"There is speculation that his future magical powers may have been refined after hand-crafted fireworks blew up in his face, rendering him unconscious for ninety-six hours when he was only sixteen. Again, it seems here almost axiomatic to associate an early strong shock to the immune system with the emergence of an intensified personal power, as in the case of other charismatic occultists, including Casanova."
 
http://psychicinvestigator.com/Occult/Crowley.htm
  
Message 2153 06-19-2002 01:10 PM ET (US)
  
In a book by James Hillman, a Jungian psychologist, he quoted some admirers of Hitler who said that when Hitler looked directly into their eyes, they felt so much energy coming from him that they were ecstatic for some time afterward.
--------------------------------------------------
 
And two quotes discovered by Brian Steel:

"By this time I realized that the eyes of Mr Gurdjieff were of unusual depth and penetration. The word 'beautiful' would hardly be appropriate, but I will say that until that moment I had never seen such eyes nor felt such a look."

Thomas and Olga de Hartmann, "Our Life with Mr Gurdjieff"
---------------------------------------------------

"Now I really experienced for myself the sense and meaning of life with Mr. Gurdjieff and understood the significance of his personality for all of us. I felt as if, without him, the forces of life would stop, and that if he died, all that lives would die. I felt that his whole life's work would be undone."

Thomas and Olga de Hartmann, "Our Life with Mr Gurdjieff"

It's true that simply calling sb 'sai baba' may confuse some Hindu visitors to this board as Shridi Sai Baba is a known and revered saint in India. The Baba of Puttaparthi has stolen his name. I suggest that a name used by Suresh Balaraman would be more suitable for discussion on this board: PARTHI BABA. (the baba residing in Puttaparthi) There are many 'babas' in India.

Mr Hari Sampath :-

"I think that Sathya Sai Baba is the biggest danger to Hindus, as he has brought very bad name to the great religion."

Basically,what YOU think,is your right and freedom,as an individual,Hindu,and a fellow human being.You do not represent the entire Hindu population in the World,nor does Sri Jayendra Saraswathi , Shankaracharya of Kanchi, nor does, Vishwa Hindu Parishad International President Shri Ashok Singhal.

This reply coming from you,goes to prove,at least circumstantially,that Sri Jayendra Saraswathi,Shankaracharya Of Kanchi,is behind your campaign,against Sathya Sai Baba alongwith Shri Ashok Singhal Of Vishwa Hindu Parishad and some political leadership .

Without going into the merit of the case here,as a nuetral observer,i feel,you are with the support of those individuals that you have mentioned,that you will take up "the matter"with,gives room,to innocents at large,that they are backing you,in some manner.

Further from your reply"I would make sure that the senior leadership of the VHP in India, as well as the Indian Govt are appraised of the matter.",you sound here,that the senior leadership of VHP in India,as well as the Indian Goverment,are "JUST" waiting from your good self,for them to be appraised of the matter,pertaining to Sathya Sai Baba,which is very questionable.

For innocent bystanders,here in the USA,UK,and other European Nations,the Indian Goverment today is led by Prime Minister Sri Atal Bihari Vajpayee,The Vishwa Hindu Parishad is led by Shri Ashok Singhal.Both these prominent personalities are devotees of Sathya Sai Baba,a self proclaimed avatar of Shirdi Sai Baba.

What the moderator of this message board does not know or understand is,that there is an ambiguity,when only Sai Baba is being mentioned in this title for discussion.Many devotees of Shirdi Sai Baba(SSB),are also affected,by this seemingly innocent,aberration.Which should be corrected with specifics or is the moderator of this message board,wishe's to include Shirdi Sai Baba as well,as "ANTI CHRIST" with a question mark,of course?

Mr.Sampath,Who are you?What is your status and position in society?Are you a business person?Are you employed?Are you a spiritually advanced individual?Are you a person who is able to to listen to people's woe's,people's need's,people's need to understand meta-physical,and spiritual truths?Are you a person who teaches the values of Truth,Righteouness,Love,Peace,Nonviolence?What is the amount of lectures and speeches,that you have given so far,in the public?Are you spiritually qualified,from any religious Order?

By answering some of the above raised question's,innocent nuetral observer's would be better served.Don't you and the moderator of this message board,think so?That it would serve the public,who are, to a very large extent nuetral,in the welfare pertaining to Sathya Sai Baba.

The next obvious comparison would go to,Sathya Sai Baba,as to what he has done to society and his contribution to it?And how society has benefited by his teaching's of not only Hindu Religion,but also that of, the Christian's,Islamist's,Buddhist's,Jain's,Jew's,Parsi's, to name just a few of the religion's in the world.

I hope,that both of you, Mr.Hari Sampath and Mr.Anthony Thomas, would take the time, to reply to, some of the pertinent questions asked.

Edited by author 06-26-2002 09:58 AM
/m2548

>>The name antichrist attributed to Sai Baba smacks of anti-hindu propaganda.Anthony Thomas,do choose another proper heading as this is causing grave concern to us.This is a friendly way of approaching you, to do the needful.For further communication contact the Public Relations Officer,Sankat Mochan Ashram, Sector-VI
Ramakrishna Puram, New Delhi-110022
Phone: 011-6178992, 6103495
Fax: 6195527
E-mail :- webmaster@vhp.org
Web:- http://www.vhp.org
We are initially, responding to complaints received .We would appreciate, that you provide us with your full address and other communicable information, as soon as possible.You are degrading and insulting, Hindu sensitivities,faith,and emotions.This is causing mental agony to many people.

Hope you would respect Hindu ideologies and do the needful.

Thank You!

For Shri Hari Babu Kansal
Joint Secretary, V.H.P.

VISHVA HINDU PARISHAD ABROAD

Vikram Pandey.<<<

To Shri Hari Babu Kansal
Joint Secretary, Vishwa Hindu Parishad abroad ( Through Vikram Pandey)

Please clarify for the record, whether the Vishwa Hindu Parishad is defending Sathya Sai Baba. In my opinion , as an Indian living abroad and as a Hindu, I think that Sathya Sai Baba is the biggest danger to Hindus, as he has brought very bad name to the great religion.

I have already taken up this matter with Vishwa Hindu Parishad International President Shri Ashok Singhal, through Sri Jayendra Saraswathi , Shankaracharya of Kanchi. If The VHP abroad for any reason attempts to make the Sai Baba matter a "pro Hindu" or "anti Hindu matter", I would make sure that the senior leadership of the VHP in India, as well as the Indian Govt are appraised of the matter.

Please feel free to contact me at harisampath@yahoo.com should you wish to know anything further.

Thank you,

Hari Sampath

Edited by author 06-26-2002 08:40 AM
Re 2539 The exposure of 'sb' has nothing whatsoever to do with what nationality he happens to be. This is immaterial. It is his acts and not his nationality that is being exposed.If he were American or Chilean, he would receive the same treatment.

Re 2548 Sorry you are offended. I suggest you note that there is a question mark after Anti Christ and we are simply examining this possibility. I would also like to refer you to your guru's own words 'to pay not attention to attacks on him, but that he is aware and controlling everything that happens! May I suggest that he has inferred that he does not need you protection, as he is God!!

Does Indian law allow for hostile witnesses? Specifically, if we know (from this board, for example ;) ) of someone who has been 'handled' by this guru and are able to trace him down, can he be forced to give a testimony even if outwardly his faith still lies with his 'handler'?

Dear Shri Anthony Thomas,

The name antichrist attributed to Sai Baba smacks of anti-hindu propaganda.Anthony Thomas,do choose another proper heading as this is causing grave concern to us.This is a friendly way of approaching you, to do the needful.For further communication contact the Public Relations Officer,Sankat Mochan Ashram, Sector-VI
Ramakrishna Puram, New Delhi-110022
Phone: 011-6178992, 6103495
Fax: 6195527
E-mail :- webmaster@vhp.org
Web:- http://www.vhp.org
We are initially, responding to complaints received .We would appreciate, that you provide us with your full address and other communicable information, as soon as possible.You are degrading and insulting, Hindu sensitivities,faith,and emotions.This is causing mental agony to many people.

Hope you would respect Hindu ideologies and do the needful.

Thank You!

For Shri Hari Babu Kansal
Joint Secretary, V.H.P.

VISHVA HINDU PARISHAD ABROAD

Vikram Pandey.

Edited by author 06-25-2002 10:29 PM
/m2499 An observer:
 
>> Sai Baba devotees are pretty much the same as those following other gurus in India. <<

In what way?

>> Sai's discourses, Sai's idea of God, Sai's movement, Sai's setup in toto, is pretty much on par as any other guru actively teaching 'The Tradition' in India. <<

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to seriously disagree with you there. But no one can be blamed, because this is a common misconception about "Indian spirituality", that "it is all one" and "many paths to one goal", blah blah, you know what I mean? It is a common misconception that this may be the sum total of what Indian spirituality has to offer, and apart from nominal differences between various gurus there is nothing more than this.
I'd have to say that, broadly speaking, Indian spirituality is split up into two major divisions; the impersonalists and the personalists. Impersonalists are those who are generally Advaitic in their outlook, believing themselves to be one with God and to follow any sadhana that suits them to reach Him, and finally to merge into His impersonal identity. SB belongs to this category of gurus/philosophy. Personalists are those who have a much clearer idea of Godhood, being able to describe God in a much clearer way than the impersonalists, His features, His qualities, the way to reach Him, etc. I am a personalist.

One of the major changes that occurred in my life after leaving SB was my discovery of how I was able to fully devote myself to the study of the REAL God (who is NOT Sb). I was fortunate to have come into contact with the teachings of a personalist guru for several years before my final exit from SB. These teachings and their effects enabled me to have a much clearer idea of God and spirituality, and also I was able to see the inherent faults in the impersonalistic philosophy that I had been blindly following for so long under the delusion that it was "superior knowledge". I could easily say that my exposure to personalism was a major factor in my choosing to leave SB.

So if you say that SB's methods are "pretty much" the same as most other gurus in India, I would have to call you up on your error. I am also in the planning stage of a self-imposed project that is designed to show how SB is NOT in keeping with the "traditional setup" of India, and not even of his own tradition.

>> Having spent months in India - I think I can safely post this as'the truth.' <<

After having spent months in India, I am very surprised at how you made your above comments that are obviously ignorant of the different traditions of India. Frankly speaking, I am extremely "proud" to be of a different philosophy and a different everything away from SB.

Sanjay

The woman on Sai-autopilot presuming to be 'truelight' tells us:
"Sai Baba has never been to the west and probably will never do so."
Now I, as a well-suited breaker of false idols (iconoclast) reply: Oh! Really. So Sai B. is confined to India, is he? I think she badly needs to brush up on her old Sai Baba propaganda spiel! Swami is already there, everywhere, like Santa Claus, don't you know? He is therefore also necessarily in the heart of every sexual abuser and murderer, so hurrah!
 
That he will probably never go to the West (actually) is a shrewd guess for a person of truelight's capacities. Not only has he said he would do so on several occasions to invitations from prominent devotees (Hislop, Bozzani, Pietro Marena, and the current one Robert Baskin who has built for the One and Only God's arrival to the cost of $1 mill.!!
There is also Mother Sai House in Divignano, near Milan, where Sai B. ordered the extravagant apartments rebuilt for him to be changed so as he could have an authentic Indian-style bathroom toilet (I have seen it. He hadn't used it yet!).

But 'poor old Sai B.' has court orders waiting for him both here and there, and he has no control over the judiciary in USA, UK or Italy etc. Al Gore can't help him, he has lost both the election and interest in the big guru, it seems (he never signed up as Swami's favourite former Hamburger boy, Michael Goldstein, boasted to Argentineans when he flew in to save face after the exposé on TV there. Wary politician, Gore, you see!)

Truelight suggests "Why not look to your own country once in a while and find fault there.....and perhaps why (while) you are doing it, look within yourself and sort out yourself too."
I find fault where faults are, and the worst one's where the worst ones are. She now advises finding fault with some country (is this good Sai B. thinking? Well, he does find fault with the whole world in every other discourse!. As to looking within myself , I don't need to any more than usual, I am centered within myself, yes, well-sorted. Not self-centeredly through self-deception as she apparently is!
My country she does not know (country of birth, parents', nationality, residence?). I have lived abroad for decades anyhow. I have pursued self-knowledge for over 40 years, AND got past the Sai B. barrier. I am not irrationally attached to a specific nationality... but certain nations do have negative stereotypes which often apply more widely than its patriots would like. India especially so!
I certainly shall not go to India again, but this is not on 'Truelight's' advice... nor is it because of the kindergarten nuclear Kashmir politics (with Sai as Vajpayee's helpless advisor). Such patronising and misplaced advice from this parroting lady is a laugh to anyone who knows me! That's about all the good in her postings, though.

re: 2543

If one is not sufficiently equipped to know what is satan and Supreme Evil, then how do you assume that one would know its opposite, which is God ? Etc........

my point exactly.

Hari, I could have sworn I was answering a post by sanjay..oh well, sorry.

/m2541

It was me who used that argument , Beth.. and it was because its opposite it used :-)

Hari Sampath

If one is not sufficiently equipped to know what is satan and Supreme Evil, then how do you assume that one would know its opposite, which is God ? God need not necessarily be of the conventional variety normal humans come to expect, like supporting babies, respecting women, profiting for gain ,positive actions causing joy, etc. God could well be of an order normally not perceived at the outer level or immediately understood in a worldly context.

Hitler was outwardly evil,but because of him we are today enjoying peace,respect,joy?eh#we realise the horror of war,realise the horror of atomic bomb explosion,realise that jews are good,eh#

Icon,

a correction: 'why' in previous message is meant to be read 'while' -


overall meaning of message was:

(try correcting your own faults, rather than looking outside to correct others.)

<<If one is not sufficiently equipped to know what is God and Supreme Goodness, then how do you assume that one would know its opposite, which is evil ? Evil need not necessarily be of the conventional variety normal humans come to expect, like killing babies, raping women, robbing for gain ,malicious actions causing hurt, etc. Evil could well be of an order normally not perceived at the outer level or immediately understood in a worldly context.>>

***********

If you are going to use this argument Sanjay, then you have to accept the same argument coming from the other side...that of goodness not appearing good in the conventional, worldly context, wouldn't you?

You are defeating the point of this argument, Beth dear calm down and stop bonking on just let a discussion flow as at the moment you are flooding this discussion about your ramberling self opinionated thoughts!

Give it a rest!

Cheers

To Anthony:

It was a surprise to me that my mild description of young men hanging around in shop doorways in Puttaparthi and Whitefield looking at the gals, stressed you somewhat.(I assure you it has been happening for about 30 years and considered a joke there.)

Yet, you don't mind - along with others here, to continue to find fault with Sai Baba, who is a product of his culture, his country and is considered a National Treasure, even those people who do not follow him, nonetheless, have respect for him.

(and those people who don't like him or his org. - do not spend time discussing him nor have interest in an expose.)

I think your expose is pointed (maybe unintentionally on your behalf)-- but all the same, pointed at India culture and their guru Tradition.

Sai Baba is a national guru - one of many teaching the Hindu tradition in India.

He is not like some of the other mass-market gurus who come to the west and build big businesses from innocent devotees who are conned into their fold.

Sai Baba has never been to the west and probably will never do so.

Beth,

I am not dimlight on this board. (Maybe I'll take a new name -perhaps Mazda.)

Icon---- suits you. :)

Why not look to your own country once in a while and find fault there.....and perhaps why you are doing it, look within yourself and sort out yourself too.

If you don't like India, and think the people dim then don't go there. The same with Sai Baba if you don't like him - leave well alone and find something that suits you better.

Maybe try saying puga to yourself. :))) :>>>>>>>>>>

----------------------------------------------

If you don't like my posts and messages -(simply put by a sincere heart -------------then don't read them). smile.

Thanks Beth, most of us want that to,truth and justice and that God will bring it "all out". I have been around for 23 years now with ssb, and in that time the mounting circumstancial evidence has been growing by the year.Sadly to say! And. I would have liked it the other way round. I also noticed many of his major predictions and even the small ones, have not come to pass.

Anyone! In the 1993 murders(beth no heresay here even that you were not a witness to it, it happened though). Did ssb make an official statment to the police as to give his side of the events. Normally everyone at a murder scene needs to make a statement. if he did where can I see it?

Hari Sampath, I acknowledge your sincere efforts also, to get to the truth and justice to come out from a wall of silence around ssb. This wall of silence that has a billion dollar industry going, interwoven with politics. Thanks for your sincere efforts, I think it is worth it-'truth and justice'.What do you say folks?

To DikuLenivanikyDevdeyGaty - whoever you really are. Please try andd make your posts more legible. There is no need for such large spacing.

Will you all please go back to your original names ...I'm having trouble keeping up...and I know there are not that many new people here.

To sai-sex,
I've read everything and I have reacted to everything, but it all remains heresay to me because I was not a witness or anywhere close to being a witness. I don't accuse anyone of lying though. I simply don't know.
I do believe that God is in charge of all of this..and that justice, (whatever it is) will prevail.

Edited by author 06-25-2002 12:35 AM
/m2532

if he dies before some or all of the proceedings - are the current charges sufficient to continue the case(s)?

There is no fixed rule on this matter as far as law goes, several details as to who else were involved in criminal acts in association with Sai Baba , and to what extent these persons were guilty would be considered by the CBI/court. But generally speaking from past record, should an accused die in course of legal proceedings, the case ( that part dealing with the dead accused) will be dropped, while other people accused will be prosecuted.

if CBI stalls the investigation - can the Supreme Court be approached to direct the sleuths to expedite?

To the best of my belief, if the High court orders CBI investigation, and if the CBI stalls it deliberately, then the Supreme court can be approached to expedite the process. If the Supreme court itself had directed the CBI, they do so with a time and date defined, before which the CBI HAS TO file charges, so there can be no question of stalling by the CBI, unless the CBI applies for special permission to gather more evidence. In this case, the investigation would come under the direct supervision and jurisdiction of Supreme court, and the CBI will have to keep submitting regular status reports to court to justify the request for extra time.( in high profile cases involving influential personalities, normally such personalities are kept under arrest without bail, if a delay is expected in investigations, because these influntial personalities can affect investigations using their power)

if the defense - with its money and power - stalls the case with a parade of who-know-who like liars who disrupted this board until a few days back?

That will be wonderful !!! Lets all pray for it !! Because this means for each such "witness" paraded by Sai Baba, I would instruct my attorney to drag cross-examination for months together..... and Sai Baba will have to appear in court each day... from prison... the longer this takes to clear up, the better it is for me !! The TV networks will have a party for months together.... and the public image stuck permanently will be "Sai Baba ... the controversial godman , and accused in a case of cheating and pedophilia..embroiled in a prolonged criminal case" !!

Who cares what the legal verdict is !!

What more can we ask for ?? :-) !!!

SB will be finished in the court of public opinion !

Hari Sampath

/m2530
Hari,
Thanks for your efforts. Can you please cover the following scenarios as well?

if he dies before some or all of the proceedings - are the current charges sufficient to continue the case(s)?

if CBI stalls the investigation - can the Supreme Court be approached to direct the sleuths to expedite?

if the defense - with its money and power - stalls the case with a parade of who-know-who like liars who disrupted this board until a few days back?

Noooo please! not with sathya sai baba(ssb).

Mothers And fathers, keep your children away from ssb!

Beth, did you read Dr Bartia's reasons for leaving? please comment. For a person who has read "everything" and haven't read this,shows me they have not gone through the material properly. This one would have definitely stuck in your mind, sorry to say. And you really come across in a bias tone without realizing it for defending ssb., or is that on purpose? Even when you say you don't.

What can happen legally

As far as the Sai Baba case is concerned, the High court has the powers to direct the Govt of India and CBI to investigate Sai Baba. But , if for some reason they do not do so, as the petitioner, I have the excellent position of going back to the Supreme court saying " I followed the direction of the SC, but High court has refused, so I am appealing against it to the Supreme court, as it was the SC which directed me to go to High court". The Supreme court will have no other option at that point except to direct the Govt of India and CBI to investigate the charges based on the CBI complaint.

This does not automatically mean that Sai Baba is guilty of all charges. The CBI will have to finish investigation, and file a case against Sai Baba, with all necessary evidence, and of course according to law, Sai Baba and his organization will have the opportunity to legally defend himself in court with his lawyers.

Whether or not all charges are proved, Sai Baba will have to appear before cross examination and witnesses, and answer all questions. He may be found legally innocent or guilty, we don't know.

But one thing for sure I know, and I personally made sure of this when I filed the CBI complaint. Whether SB is found guilty of sexual molestation or not, there is at least ONE charge on which the Supreme court will 100 % find him guilty.

Claiming to be God , according the Supreme court , is an offence under the Indian Criminal code ( violating Sec 415, and 420 of the criminal procedure code). The same Supreme court had given such a judgement in another case involving a "godman", which reads as follows:

the godman was liable to be prosecuted under section 420 of the Indian Penal Code (IPC), the Supreme Court held in a recent judgement.A division bench comprising Justices K T Thomas and M B Shah dismissed the petition filed by the godman Sri Bhagwan Samardha Sreepada Vallabha Venkata Vishwanadha Maharaj challenging the decision of the trial court to take cognisance of the offence as alleged by police.

`If somebody offers his prayer to God for healing the sick, there cannot normally be any element of fraud. But if he represents that he has divine powers and whether directly or indirectly makes another person believe that he has such divine powers, it is inducement referred to in section 415 of the IPC,' Justice Thomas, who wrote thejudgement for the bench, said.

As can be seen obviously, Sai Baba has been claiming for 60 years to be "god"... which according to the Supreme court , is a criminal offence. As the Supreme court has to go by its own precedents and bound by its own judgements, there is no way the Supreme court can avoid sentencing Sai Baba guilty on at least this count.

This is the reason, I included this important detail in my CBI complaint , as well as in the petition to SC. This was also the reason why the SC could not possibly reject my petition, and hence referred it to High court.

The above mentioned criminal offence will carry a minimum sentence of 6 months imprisonment and include a fine. But the main thing is, a judicial process will go on for a long time, and Sai Baba has to regularly present himself in court for the case, for probably 2-3 years , and will be questioned. This by itself is enough to break the "public image" he has got. This is the entire purpose of what I am doing.

I am NOT directing my efforts towards those people who had left Sai Baba, or those who will NEVER leave Sai Baba , even if he is imprisoned. For both categories, the expose efforts are not needed, their minds are made up already.

I am directing my efforts towards those who neither have positive nor negative opinion about Sai Baba, which is the general public, comprising of 99 %. If these people see what Sai Baba is, that is enough,.... no way Sai Baba is ever going to be able to spread his influence

Thank you,

Hari Sampath

Just one final clarification on the legal case position against Sai Baba and on what grounds Supreme court decided to hear the case and refer it to High court:

With reference to what I had posted about a PIL ( Public interest litigation) ( my comments in bold)

>>Who can file a PIL?

Any public-spirited person can file a PIL. ( The Supreme court accepted after going through all records that I was a public spirited person for this case)

 It is not necessary that the petitioner has suffered some injury of his own or has had personal grievance to litigate. The Supreme Court has laid down the following principles governing the question of locus standi of a PIL. Any member of public having sufficient interest (SC accepted I had sufficient interest by way of former association with the Sai Baba movement) may maintain an action or petition provided: -

There is a personal injury or injury to a disadvantaged section of the population for whom access to legal justice system is difficult, ( SC accepted that minors, SB college students, devotees from abroad etc are at a natural disadvantage to get justice, because of Sai Baba's enormous public image and power with political leaders)
The person bringing the action has sufficient interest to maintain an action of public injury,
The injury must have arisen because of breach of public duty or violation of the Constitution or of the law, ( The point is that the Government by not investigating Sai Baba despite CBI complaint, has caused injury to the public)
It must seek enforcement of such public duty and observance of the constitutional law or legal provisions.(the direction prayed for to Supreme court was to direct the Indian Govt, CBI to do its constitutional duty)

I hope that this clarifies the grounds as well as the legal standing of the case filed in the Supreme court. I did it after months of work, and hours of consultations with top attorneys, as well as case studies of hundreds of petitions , and also preparing every single legal and documentary evidence. This was not done in a loose manner, and in the same way whatever followup action needs to be taken will be done in as dedicated and as carefully planned fashion, at the right time.

Thank you,

Hari Sampath

/m2527

I agree.... anyone is legally innocent till proven guilty. But courts , law, police etc....what I am doing is only part of the picture. People have their own judgement, and whether or not SB is "legally" found guilty, many people have their own opinions, based on what they have heard, seen, enquired, and known.

In the end, as Anthony says correctly, there is a "SUPREME COURT" above all... The Almighty.

Thanks,

Hari Sampath

HS-by explaining yourself you have done a favour to the people at large,who are back to square one.Now we will wait to see the outcome.I will treat 'sb' "innocent" untill the legal process in india proves him to be guilty of all charges.......

> but one thing y u not putting info in ur website
 
  Contextual relevance perhaps? .. does that mean anything to you
> that way u not like ssb
 
  Otherwise he is ?
   
  -- smirk --

May 8th 2001 was the hearing, and Judgement.

i thankin u for the info


i laso thanking u for patientky saying v very happy with respnse

but one thing y u not putting info in ur website

v think u earn respect showing fully all abt every

that way u not like ssb



u catch my point


i very happy now

than k u thank u

Edited by author 06-24-2002 08:18 PM
/m2514

>>Why did not victims, whose affidavits Mr Sampath claims to have, not themselves petition on their own behalf - or at least one of them on behalf of all?<<

1. Because they all trust me.
2. Because I am an Indian citizen, and all the victims who gave affidavits were not, and hence I have locus standi in an Indian court.
3. MOST importantly, the PIL was based on the CBI complaint, where I was the complainant, and also with the FBI, to whom I had complained officially. Both these complaints had been accepted, and hence I would have to be the person to press litigation primarily.

>>Why the 'detour' round the Supreme Court to the High Court?<<

No "detour" was planned, I would have been happy to have got the final order from Supreme court itself as the law allows it. The law also allows the SC to refer cases to High Court, and so I have to follow the decision of the SC (* which actually is an advantage now*)

>>Did Mr Sampath approach anoth OTHER law firm or firms, prior to his dedicing to go with the one who has representted him?<<

The team of lawyers representing me were perhaps in the top 10 in the whole country , and the leader is one of the most sought after litigation attorneys. The decision was mine , after consulting with most important and active members of the expose working with me, as well as the victims.

>>Did Mr Sampath ignore any legal advice from his own or any other law firm or firms?<<

Yes, I overruled my attorney in deciding about the scope of the petition, and included all the factors besides sexual molestation too. My attorney team finally agreed.This turned out to be the right choice, as the financial scams charged against the Sai Baba organization turned out to be one of the major reasons why the SC directed me to approach High court. I was also able to include several violations of fundamental rights apart from sexual molestations, which is why the SC could not throw it out as without merit.

No other law firm was consulted, although several lawyers in India assisted in the process.

>>Does Mr Sampath think that any of his legal problems owe to his being ill-advised by others and/or ill-advising himself?<<

Wrong, because there are no legal problems at all. What we got was a great decision from the SC, mainly due to the well documented petition, carefully represented legal points, and the excellent handling of the case by my main attorney. She openly told the Supreme court that "Sai Baba
has divine followers including Prime Minister, and has a huge financial empire, so possibilities of investigation being tampered are present. That is why we want a concrete court order. If the UNESCO which is a reputed International org has publicly voiced concern, that by itself is a matter of public interest" She did a fabulous job !!

>>Does Mr Sampath believe that any member of his law firm has opined that there has been corruption by any member of the Supreme Court in his case?<<

That sort of an opinion , if expressed publicly would attract the provisions of "contempt of court", and a fine and imprisonment. As I am the principal petitioner, and the case is still alive, I cannot reveal what my attorneys told me in private, because this is priveleged Lawyer-Client information.

>>Why has not Mr Sampath made the whole matter of his PIL far more open, inasmuch as the matter can be aired in public. It is a LONG LONG time now since the case. Why has he not shared more with us? Perahps, if any newspaper had taken any interest in the case, we would by now have known far more than Mr Sampath has been ready to tell us.<<

It has been made as public as possible. I had even spoken about it to Newspapers , magazines, and it has been mentioned in The Times, Salon.com etc. It has also been mentioned , along with the CBI complaint in the Danish Documentary. Pease check all this.

>>Does Mr Sampath, under the predictions of his legal advisors, consider that his case stands a fully decent chance of success?<<

The fact that Supreme court hasreferred the case to High court, gives it a very high probablity of success ( if your chairman recommends something to you, obviously you will think there is merit and take it extremely seriously).

However, I am gathering even more evidence to make my case iron clad.

>>Why is Mr Sampath taking the brunt of this legal representation? If he had a wide cross-section of former devotees onside, would he not be besieged with many and generous offers of money to assist him?<<

In Public interest, just as my petition says. Many prominent people on the SB expose have already helped out generously with money, and it is a group effort. Others have given various kinds of assistance, finally it is all dependent on God's Grace.

>>Please Mr Sampath, insult and abuse me for asking these questions - otherwise, I shall feel quite left out.<<

Thank you for asking these questions, and I apologize that you may have to continue to be left out :-)

Hari Sampath

/m2522

>>what then meaning go to hih curt
so when this happnd
y no one giving the rulling month day year<<

What that regulation means is, NO ONE can file a PIL and withdraw it subsequently, because the cause for which the PIL is filed should not be affected by the individual's decision.

For example, if I file a PIL against Sai Baba, and after it is registered, Sai Baba organization bribes me $ 1 million , and I withdraw the PIL, this will mean a similar PIL against the same person in the same court for the same cause cannot be filed at all by anyone else. So the cause will be permenantly affected, that is why the Indian law on PIL says that once registerd, a PIL cannot be withdrawn.

The reason why I was asked by the Supreme court, to approach High court is the Supreme court felt that since the High court too has parallel jurisdiction on the same laws, they too can give a judgement.

May 8th 2001 was the hearing, and Judgement.

Thank you,

Hari Sampath

Once a PIL has been filed it cannot be subsequently withdrawn. The Court may proceed suo motto. The was laid down by the Supreme Court to ensure that there are no vested interest of the people who initiate proceedings and that the cause for which the PIL was initiated does not suffer.

http://www.advocates4u.com/_faq-PIL.shtml


what then meaning go to hih curt


so when this happnd

y no one giving the rulling month day year


so crazy all abt this expose

i go mad abt this.

Credit for this should go to PN Bhagwati, former Chief Justice of the Supreme court of India, staunch devotee of Sathya Sai Baba, and a member of the Sai Baba Trust


u r bloving my mind



bhagwati ex chief justice devotee of Sathya Sai Baba

ab vajapai prime minister india devtee of ssb

l k advani home minster devotee of ssb

george fernandez devtee of ssb

|||||||||||||||



go on on on

ppl all good ppl in india and many abroad all loving ssb


now v know u r crazy truly

Mr. Brian Steel (found at www.exbaba.com) shows that this lady is ignorant of the sources and facts too."


u think v keep recording only after british





then what abt bhgawath geitha


then what abt ved




what abt hindu scrptrs



dont insult indias inteligens



v keeping records many many many centuries


v teaching u british and eveyone lesson in recrd keepying


y did not u tell abt this court biz of asking going to high court

v think very hanky panky things going


somebody plz investigate this ppl also

2515




check British law

B.Kleer


Way to go man


such eeeeeerrrie silence


When did this ruling delievered





I mean which day month year

from Iconoclast
The previous posting by "truelight 2286 06-22-2002 " shows a very 'typical' and hence unoriginal Sai mentality, induced by the teaching that gives both the otherworldly, and the so-called 'inner reality' (subjectivity) predominance and therefore provides a biassed (pseudo) means of rejecting everything that could weaken the huge unprovable belief, namely that Sai Baba is God Almighty etc. etc. etc. However much experience one may have, this still remains a massive, unsubstantial assumption!

Truelight posted: "The problem with you people is that you concentrate so hard on the externals (bits and bobs) that you lose the real meaning of Sai - true experiences are internal and unique to each and every one. Only by your own personal experiences with you understand the 'ring of truth.' (Not by others.)"

We who have concentrated on the inner life for decades and experienced many things, but not at the expense of learning as fully as possible from the 'outer life' or reality, do not limit ourselves to our own 'personal experiences. We recognise that all personal experiences are formed by what we have learned and chosen to believe... they are subjective and often highly distorted, especially when the 'inner' conviction is held up. This is one-sidedness and bias in favour of an assumption that one fears might be shown to be unwarranted!

"But you cannot understand that."

Some of us understand a great deal more than this writer (who uses the arrogant, self-enhancing alias 'truelight' is evidently able to.

"V.V.Reddy has told you his experiences, revealed in detail his cure but you still doubt him. Why? Because you want to doubt - you want to find fault."

Misguidedly, she here assumes for her own ends that she knows that we WANT to find fault, we who have wanted to find the good and truth and have - after decades of association with SB, experienced his various 'leelas' and learned from experience and investigation that SB is not at all what he claims to be. Now we WANT the truth to be known and delusions dispelled.

"That is your problem - not Sai's problem."

It is her problem too, evidently, or why would she write about it? And is also Sai's problem, as his angry lectern-bashing and lying denouncement of Judases and demons criticising him for money showed all too clearly! The Sai Baba saga is far from over, be sure of that! But it surely cannot be as he had predicted it will be.

"The same goes for his birthday date. It was explained to you many times by different writers that in India you can have two birth certificates, depending on the year and the schooling provided etc. etc. But you failed to understand that too."

But the very thorough analysis of all the evidence by Mr. Brian Steel (found at www.exbaba.com) shows that this lady is ignorant of the sources and facts too."

She continues: "The problem is you tend to think of India being like the West but it is not. It is entirely different and has an entirely different viewpoint on the world."

Some of us have known India since the 1950s. The British kept very accurate registers, something Indians admittedly never had done in any areas of life before the British Sirkar. We who really know about India - not just through Sai eyes - are not so easily taken in by the superstitions to which SB also subscribes (eg. that Rama actually was 14 feet tall, that ogres existed (as Sai has definitively claimed), that the seminal fluid in Eshwaramma's womb was 'pure milk' - whether really or figuratively, (note: there now is overwhelming circumstantial evidence that SB is a homosexual abuser, at the very least!) .
India is not like the West, true enough. The battle against human rights like freedom from sexual abuse of children has hardly so much as begun there. It is a very repressive and sexually unhealthy society, not least due to its burden of often absurd scriptures, advaitic negativism about social caste and the primitive agrarian and village and other prejudicial and despicable age-old traditions like temple prostitution, widespread wife-burning etc. etc. Besides, even many well-educated Indians (of which there are comparatively quite few in the world) are recognised the world over (but admittedly with a fair percentage of honourable exceptions) for often tending towards 'arrogance and ignorance' in Western terms.

Edited by author 06-24-2002 06:00 PM
/m2514

PLease take a look at some FAQs about a Public Interest Litigation from www.advocates4u.com which is a leading legal online forum in India. Hopefully some of the questions in your message as well as other questions would be answered.

http://www.advocates4u.com/_faq-PIL.shtml

*****************************************************
What is a PIL?

PIL or " Public Interest Litigation" is a right given to the member of the public to maintain an action for judicial redressal of public injury. Such injury may arise from breach of public duty or due to a violation of some provision of the Constitution. The members of the public by filing a PIL are entitled to and seek enforcement of such public duty and observance of the constitutional law or legal provisions.

What is the purpose of PIL ?

Public interest litigation is the device by which public participation in judicial review of administrative action is assured. It has the effect of making judicial process little more democratic.

What Courts have jurisdiction over a PIL?

A PIL can be filed in any High Court or directly in the Supreme Court.

Who can file a PIL?

Any public-spirited person can file a PIL. It is not necessary that the petitioner has suffered some injury of his own or has had personal grievance to litigate. The Supreme Court has laid down the following principles governing the question of locus standi of a PIL. Any member of public having sufficient interest may maintain an action or petition provided: -

There is a personal injury or injury to a disadvantaged section of the population for whom access to legal justice system is difficult,
The person bringing the action has sufficient interest to maintain an action of public injury,
The injury must have arisen because of breach of public duty or violation of the Constitution or of the law,
It must seek enforcement of such public duty and observance of the constitutional law or legal provisions.

What is the method of filing a PIL?

The conventional method of moving a Court is by filing a plaint containing a detailed list of facts that are necessary for deciding the case. The PIL has jumped over this structural barrier. The Supreme Court has held that a PIL need not be rejected merely on the fact that it is not in the structural form of a plaint. The Court can admit a PIL even if it is not made in the manner of a formal plaint. The Court can initiate a PIL even on receiving a letter addressed to the Court whether with or without an affidavit..

Once a PIL has been filed it cannot be subsequently withdrawn. The Court may proceed suo motto. The was laid down by the Supreme Court to ensure that there are no vested interest of the people who initiate proceedings and that the cause for which the PIL was initiated does not suffer.
********************************************************


I shall shortly address those questions which require a detailed answer.

Thank you,

Hari Sampath.

/m2513

Yes. It is. India is the ONLY country in the world where a Judicial "Public interest litigation" can be DIRECTLY presented to the Supreme court.

It is the ONLY country in the world where even a homeless , poor, beggar on the street , can ask someone to donate a post card, and write 2 lines on it to teh Chief Justice of the Supreme court, and this letter is given the status of a legal petition.

Credit for this should go to PN Bhagwati, former Chief Justice of the Supreme court of India, staunch devotee of Sathya Sai Baba, and a member of the Sai Baba Trust :-)

Hari Sampath.

Why did did Mr Sampath go in as petitioner in this PIL?

Why did not victims, whose affidavits Mr Sampath claims to have, not themselves petition on their own behalf - or at least one of them on behalf of all?

Why the 'detour' round the Supreme Court to the High Court?

Did Mr Sampath approach anoth OTHER law firm or firms, prior to his dedicing to go with the one who has representted him?

Did Mr Sampath ignore any legal advice from his own or any other law firm or firms?

Does Mr Sampath think that any of his legal problems owe to his being ill-advised by others and/or ill-advising himself?

Does Mr Sampath believe that any member of his law firm has opined that there has been corruption by any member of the Supreme Court in his case?

Why has not Mr Sampath made the whole matter of his PIL far more open, inasmuch as the matter can be aired in public. It is a LONG LONG time now since the case. Why has he not shared more with us? Perahps, if any newspaper had taken any interest in the case, we would by now have known far more than Mr Sampath has been ready to tell us.

Does Mr Sampath, under the predictions of his legal advisors, consider that his case stands a fully decent chance of success?

Why is Mr Sampath taking the brunt of this legal representation? If he had a wide cross-section of former devotees onside, would he not be besieged with many and generous offers of money to assist him?

Please Mr Sampath, insult and abuse me for asking these questions - otherwise, I shall feel quite left out.


B. Kleer

.......India is the ONLY country in the world where one can go directly to the Supreme court with a public interest litigation........

HS -India is not the only country..................

.....I DO NOT have to prove anything to you.... I only have to do it to the court.....

Its not whether you have to prove anything to me per se.When you have gone public and even have your own website trying to expose sb, the facts when they dont add up definitely i will point it out to you.Whether you wish to listen or not ,thats entirely left to you.Had i not pointed out to you especially your website even to this very moment does not say anything about SC of india ruling.I feel with your posts so far you are deliberately trying to mislead us or at least suppressing facts or both.

I am back to square one NOW and will accept all allegation against sb only when the court in india convicts him to be guilty.

As for you AT we all are aware of a higher power guiding us.The same POWER guides sb too.Do not for a second make a mistake thinking that sb is not subjected to that higher power,but if the higher power itself is sb then what?is my dilemna.Hope you understand my situation.

As for HS trying to write in a foreign language,maybe i will check with my friends,if that is the translation......

Oh...I just noticed I had written "dimwit" in the earlier post....I was intending to write dimlight, and subconciously thinking this guy must be a dimwit... and I think I ended up typing that :-) As "Swami" says "lopaka unthathe bite osthundhi" lol ( in Telegu, meaning " what is inside alone will come out" :-)

Sorry dim watts :-)

Hari Sampath

To dimlight re 2505 One can actually go higher than the a high court ...... it is called God! One day 'sb' will need to face what he has done. It may not be for a long time, but it will inevitably come.

Hari Your words and ability to state them are sufficient and powerful. You really don't need to get angry or call people dimwits. This surely reduces the point made somewhat.

/m2508

See... dim watts, I am sick of repeating the same thing again and again . The SC court DID NOT REJECT THE CASE ON MERIT.

It has been accepted and referred to a High court under the SAME category of law, but different article. I have the official judgement with me, which I have not put on my website. I AM going to follow the specific instructions given by the SC, my attorneys are taking care of it. I DO NOT have to prove anything to you.... I only have to do it to the court.

Hari Sampath

.......The SC can then either direct to some other court or handle it itself.......

HS,dont abuse me.SC of india did not see it good enough in the merit of your case to handle it 'itself'therefore asked you to seek justice thru a lower court.The fact that SC in india gave you such a ruling is never published in your website and it is only now,that people like me who have doubted sb with all the expose activities are now beginning to re evaluate whether you expose people are telling us the 'whole' truth and nothing but the truth.

I am back to square one and seriously thinking 'sb' is NOT guilty especially SC of india refusing to deal with your case,whatever maybe that interpretation that you want to give us.I am suspecting foulplay here 'NOW'.

/m2505

dimwit, PLease do your research properly. India is the ONLY country in the world where one can go directly to the Supreme court with a public interest litigation. The SC can then either direct to some other court or handle it itself. In my case, the SC referred to to go to a high court under a legal article dealing with EXACTLY what the Supreme court does. This was done only because the case had merit. I had given all the details a few pages back. Refer to it.

Hari Sampath

It is interesting that 'sb' has ordered everyone in the ashram from discussing the new exposure world news about him. He has apparently threatened them with 'banishment forever' from the ashram. An interesting kind of God, eh!!

A Shepherd herds his flock

..........In addition to inflicting his person on young boys, his sinister control of people extends beyond that which is always conscious and visible.

How did you judge this?I mean HS went to the supreme court and they did not think this way.There is no further -up- you can go beyond Supreme court-at least in the US.My research tells me that it is true for india too.HS is going to lower court.It is a reverse way of seeking justice.One files complaint in the lower court and if the verdict is not acceptable then we go to the next higher court and finally Supreme Court.In HS case he has been adopting reverse methods of approach.........its bizarre and now i am back to square one and have very serious doubts about all these allegations against sb and the people who are trying this expose...

message 2500 the observer- i second that.In fact because of sb i did some much research on this country especially from the region who are now US citizens and all of them agree -that thats how it is in india -jealousy amongst various schools of philosophical thoughts- which ultimately is leading me to have stronger faith in Christanity and discard all these false prophets from india.Christ works in mysterious ways.

....hasn't bothered to look at all the evidence!...

We are not the justice department.But HS took all evidence to his highest court available and what was the nett result?Do you want us to believe the courts or believe people who talk to us about incidents,or read from the net regarding incidents?Who has to live in the real world?I think no man is guilty untill proved gulity untill then he is innocent.Our justice system at least works in this manner and i can safely conclude that it should be true in india too.Given to the fact that it is the largest democracy in the world thanks to all that is happening there we are more knowledgeable about that country.

I think AT you and others need to take a close look especially after these four days even though he had a mean streak but it was bitter truth that came out about how well one is being informed about expose activities.

Although there are undoubtedly many institutions /religions/gurus doing considerable harm to others, this board is solely concerned with 'sb.' We are not here to discuss or condemn other gurus or philosophers. Personally, I consider 'sb' to be a special case. In addition to inflicting his person on young boys, his sinister control of people extends beyond that which is always conscious and visible.


Re 2501. I haven't the faintest idea what you are referring to. No doubt I have been misinterpreted. But what else is knew!! My intention is for no-one to be attacked, whether male or female.

For a grown man who tells us he wants to stand by absolute truth in the name of God, yet will not stand up for ladies - well.

rofl - 100 times.

Get to know yourself - Anthony.

There is a saying from Sai Baba -

"good people don't become bad by associating with those of a lower nature, but they do come away with a smell about them."

In other words if you are wanting to find God (whatever the form or tradition) best to keep to the highest thoughts.

Don't dwell on darkness, don't give it a place in your heart.

Thoughts are living things and live within you, therefore you vibrate on the level of what you are imbibing.

Well said Anthony, :)

Personal experiences of the sexual type? -(rofl.)

Maybe we will not have to hear more rehashed stories from young men who have nothing better to do but describe their sexual encounters (according to them) on the anti-boards.

Personally I gave up reading such reports back last year. I would think any healthy persons would want to run from more pukey stories. And for them to be constantly rehashed shows an unhealthy interest in the dark side within yourselves. (smile).

I think for anyone to keep reading that stuff and trying to form a truthful opinion based on those writings is pretty sick indeed. There has been ample writings to digrest already, and ample postings from Sai devotees who have had other types of experiences with Sai, for just about anyone here (from 10 to 100 watts intelligence quota) to from an opinion.

Also it seems like the Sai Baba expose is aimed purely at Sai Baba -without any thought to other gurus living in India.

Sai Baba is pretty much a product of his country. He is only one (an important one - I agree) among many in India.

Sai Baba devotees are pretty much the same as those following other gurus in India.

Sai's discourses, Sai's idea of God, Sai's movement, Sai's setup in toto, is pretty much on par as any other guru actively teaching 'The Tradition' in India.

I would like to add there is a fair amount of competition among these gurus too. They, instead of spreading the oneness themselves, compete for power and position.

Having spent months in India - I think I can safely post this as'the truth.'

re 2494 Quite right too. No sexism needed here.

He was actually a &!#%ing @$$hole ( I'm sorry, I mis-spelled it the first time.)

Excellent move, Anthony. You have begun to wrest back the QT Board in the cause of sanity and civilized values.

It has been painful to read the slanging and general nastiness increasingly pervading the Board. We don't need to be angels but, if it is at all true that any of us have aspired (in and out of devotion to Sai Baba)to be spiritual, kindly, tolerant, considerate of the feelings of others, etc., then there has been little evidence, at times, of such qualities in countless of the posts on this Board.

When there is is clarity and lack of confusion and conflict on QT, we will suddenly feel it.

ETA

.<< Let us refute any such chauvinistic assumption utterly!>>

LOL..well tell me, in the last year, how many women have you observed engaging in foul mouthed disputes on this or other borads? (besides me?) (...I've only used the f word once in the last year...hee hee. I'm bad, I know. Excuse me. It was used very wisely though...toward a real @*%#ing $#@hole, whose name I shall not mention...He also got called a few other words I shall not repeat. (But it was such fun!!!)

From: From the ladies. Time: 05:55 AM


>>It is a pity that those people from India backgrounds >>have to bring their personal intolerances onto this >>board. '

What - ONLY from Indian backrounds? Besides, can we be sure that the posters are genuinely from Indian backgrounds?! A smart but devious person, who knows Indian thought and speech patterns well enough, could easily enough post falsely.

>>It is also a pity that some also use foul language on a >>public board, or other sexual discriptive words etc. >>that many women find offensive and belittling.

Hey - wait a minute! Many women? Let us rather say, many men too!


>>Please 'persons' from Indian backgrounds, remember you >>do not use these words or discussions in front of
>>your mothers, sisters, aunts, cousins, girlfriends and >>wives

Whether consciously or not, there seems to be the assumption here that fathers, brothers, uncles, boy cousins, friends who are boys, and husbands who countenance such vulgar language. Let us refute any such chauvinistic assumption utterly!

NC

I thought it may be time to repost this. It is a reminder for those 'sb' devotees who post here, who are so critical. I have always found it interesting that anyone could believe their guru is God and yet still feel he has to be protected by them.

Following is a quote from 'sb' telling his devotees how to act in relation to exposures about him (this was in reference to the last attack he received). It was taken from a letter by the 'sb' organisation that was circulated through Malaysia - by J Jagadesan - in an 'Open Letter to All Malaysian Leaders of Sai Centers and Youth Coordinators' on 7th October 2000.

He quotes 'sb'.......

"Many of you are pained by what some papers are indulging in, regarding me. Many are urging that something, should be done about it. But, I am holding everyone back, for that is the best way to deal with both praise and blame. The ocean knows no overflowing or drying, up. It is ever full, ever majestic and ever unconcerned."

In my 35 years of association with Bhagawan, on several occasions he explains such incidents as 'fly on an ear of an Elephant" which it is not necessary to be disturbed about.

Let us remember that nothing happens or moves without his wish. Everything that happens is for good. Just examine silently those who have "dropped out" or turned against Sai,and you will discover this truth! Do not condemn them! Do not vilify
them - only pray that they find Peace and Love in their lives! ................(end)

One wonders why some devotees then continue to condemn and do not follow his instruction?

It is interesting that 'sb' has ordered everyone in the ashram from discussing the new exposure world news about him. He has apparently threatened them with 'banishment forever' from the ashram. An interesting kind of God, eh!!

Hari 2488 Exactly so. 'sb' so well described

To Beth re 2479 I am sure 'sb' is quite happy with your 98% committment to him.

Re 2475 Interesting slip of the keyboard!! An underlying truth perhaps?

Re dimlights/brightlights postings. Please don't anyone go there! Anyone who suggests that if there was any proof against 'sb', there would be court actions, doesn't live in the real world and hasn't bothered to look at all the evidence! It may simply be attempts to get the board tied up. We don't need to tie up the board in repeating things a thousand times over. It is often wiser to just give a reference site for them to read. http://www.snowcrest.net is still a valid site.

The sotry about the seven-year-old boy is part of the Findings under the section about Dr Naresh Bhatia. Adirect link is here:

http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex-baba/engels/findings.html#Dr Bhatia, why did he leave?

Sanjay

.......Click new videos.... see the vibuthi tablet in Sai Baba's hands , how he transfers it, and crushes it... all in slow motion......

HS after these couple of days we came to know about your case and the ruling.But when we read in your website you do not provide this ruling by the court.We assume its an oversight or the ruling has been very recent that you have so far not mentioned in your website.Otherwise your website will start lacking credibility even the videos may start to look digitally altered............

Edited by author 06-23-2002 11:53 PM
/m2478

>>They are souls who are wide awake and what they have experienced is in direct contradiction to something evil or low in nature.<<

If one is not sufficiently equipped to know what is God and Supreme Goodness, then how do you assume that one would know its opposite, which is evil ? Evil need not necessarily be of the conventional variety normal humans come to expect, like killing babies, raping women, robbing for gain ,malicious actions causing hurt, etc. Evil could well be of an order normally not perceived at the outer level or immediately understood in a worldly context.

To just give a hypothetical example, someone for all purposes a saint and helping people enormously on a wordly level, may in fact be doing so for a much deeper rooted long term, malicious purpose, for which wordly goodwill is a necessary instrument. Who then is to make the judgement, each one will judge according to their perceptions and immediate knowledge and circumstances.

If a Saint was actually leading large sections of humanity along a spiritual path that is positively dangerous for the evolvement of the souls, all the while doing wordly good, and also knowing fully well that such a path is not at all good, such a "saint" would be committing a sin far more heinous than Hitler's genocide. Can the ordinary person see this as "evil" at the time it is happening , especially when the saint appears to be the embodiment of goodness by wordly standards ? No, certainly not.

Hari Sampath

....There was a guy who had been posting here continuously from which to me at least one more bit of truth dawned.The victims are telling the truth about genitalia being physically touched by sb as he clearly talks about being cured by sb.Many doubters in sb camp will definitely see this as a revealation.....

Hari or Sanjay...

Please give me a link to the story about the seven year old boy.

thank you.

<<But if you sought Sai Baba for help with your chronic illness and karma, obviously you had believed that he does have control over your karma, and could in fact change things for the better. Getting over karma is the first step in the spiritual path , and believing Sai Baba could do so for you is reposing your faith in the concept as well as Sai Baba the person . So, whether you knew it or not, you had "accepted" Sai Baba, in clearing hurdles in your onward spiritual path, and thereby he is indeed your guru.>>

If you want to use the word guru, go ahead. I have sought help from several people in this life...I don't really refer to all of them as gurus exactly.

I was detached from Sai...I didn't view him as anyone's personal guru, but an impersonal entity who was available to anyone who sought his help. He was not someone that one had to be "devoted" too, but one could come and go as one pleased...You didn't have to join a club...he was just there available to all. It was the oppossite of a cult to me...complete freedom to come and go as one pleases....no allegiance to him was necessary to receive help.

>>I agree. But so far, I have no way of seeing the evidence for myself.<<

www.sathyasaivictims.com

Click new videos.... see the vibuthi tablet in Sai Baba's hands , how he transfers it, and crushes it... all in slow motion.

End of story.

Hari Sampath

/m2468 >> He does proclaim himself to be the Avatar. I never said he didn't. He also claims to be God. I never said he didn't say that. The problem lies in how people interpret those words. <<

So how else are we supposed to interpret these words? :)

SB says he is God and an Avatar. The correct way of interpreting that would be "SB is God an an Avatar." So how does one NOT come to the conclusion that this is NOT so? Or come up with some other weird explanation?

>> There is no excuse for pedophelia. I don't excuse it. but I do question whether SB's behavior is really pedophilia. <<

So if SB is a self-realised being, what sort of "benevolent healing" is anal rape to a seven-year-old boy? Such disgusting anal rape that the boy suffered rectal bleeding and a torn anus, and you would have us believe this might, just MIGHT, be a form of benevolent healing from a self-realised person? Nah ..

>> Therefore, I refrain from judging beyond what I know about him..or what I personally feel. <<

I thought you RELIED on your intuitions? :)

>> I believe is a Self-Realized Being. I can't say whether he is or isn't an Avatar or the Poornar Avatar. I have no way of answering that for myself. But I do believe that he is a Self-Realized being. <<

That's great, but the point here is not what YOU think, but what he himself says. HE says that he is God and Avatar and whatnot, so how does that translate into "selfrealised being"?

>> Sai is an energy, not a person. When he uses the term sai....it is not personal or egoistic referring to his body mind spirit. It is beyond the body, beyond the individuality. <<

So if I go to Puttaparthi tomorrow and have darshan, I am not viewing a person there, but an energy?

Beth, you are free to think what you like and interpret whatever you like. We are only interested in facts here, and the facts show that SB is a nut. And a sex-crazed nut too.

Sanjay

<<I have a question: If you trust your inner god to even take you to your own divine nature, and if you are your own jury and judge, how come you do not trust this inner god to solve issues of health and karma ??>>

Because I am only human. I have done both...I have healed many of my own problems on my own. I have also had the help of healers to heal other problems, etc...

if I have sufficient and proveable evidence that he has deliberately lied or committed an act EVEN ONCE , that contradict what he says about himself, then the whole theory of "poorna avatar " collapses.

I agree. But so far, I have no way of seeing the evidence for myself.

Edited by author 06-23-2002 11:21 PM
Beth: "Because, in this life I am here to be my own judge and jury and live according to the God-Within...not the avatar without. I do not necessarily follow any teacher's word or advice or judgement unless it coincides with my own, even if I suspect that he may know more than I do and be more developed. I am not here to follow anyone other than my High-Self...I can still observe and listen to them though, and learn from them. "

Nice credo to live by!

Guys - the level of discussion is much higher now....have to read every post at least twice. Please keep it up and avoid derisive LOL/ROFL etc. Thanks for your thoughts so far.

....I look at it from the other point of view. If he says he is what he is, then there can be no possible error at all, even once. From this point of view, and framework, if I have sufficient and proveable evidence that he has deliberately lied or committed an act EVEN ONCE , that contradict what he says about himself, then the whole theory of "poorna avatar " collapses.....


If you had sufficient & proveable evidence that Bhagvan Sathya Sai Baba has deliberately lied or committed an act even once,by this time your court case would have seen to that justice served.On the contrary,you are being subjected judicial interpretations and given the shove around.As for calling himself poorna avatar and making people believe it with actual proof in india,at least for us here we would like to see where this all goes with your actions.

WEll, I agree with you that some people may have such a blind faith, that they will not even consider other possibilities about the guru they have chosen to follow.. I don't worry about those people though. I let them be. They are there to learn too.

But then there are the people who are torn because they KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE EXPERIENCED with SB...They are souls who are wide awake and what they have experienced is in direct contradiction to something evil or low in nature. So, these people are in a quandry, wondering just where and what these allegations are about.

Many people are NOT blind believers of SB. But it's still up to them whether they want to look at the allegations or not. I don't worry about these people. Too many of them are intelligent souls, and I have to trust each soul to choose their own paths for themselves. I trust that they know what they are doing...as in the case of VV Reddy and others who still follow SB.

/m2476

But if you sought Sai Baba for help with your chronic illness and karma, obviously you had believed that he does have control over your karma, and could in fact change things for the better. Getting over karma is the first step in the spiritual path , and believing Sai Baba could do so for you is reposing your faith in the concept as well as Sai Baba the person . So, whether you knew it or not, you had "accepted" Sai Baba, in clearing hurdles in your onward spiritual path, and thereby he is indeed your guru.

I have a question: If you trust your inner god to even take you to your own divine nature, and if you are your own jury and judge, how come you do not trust this inner god to solve issues of health and karma ??

Hari Sampath .

If you truly accept he is a self realised being, how come you do not trust his word over your own judgement which is that of a normal human being ??>>

Because I'm here to develop my own judgement and to follow my Soul, my true self, and commune with my own God, the God -within...

Sai Baba is NOT a guru to me. He is simply an Entity who lives in INdia and who may or may not be the Poona Avatar.
I sought him out because I wanted to be helped with chronic illnesses and other life problems. I wanted help with my karma..in other words. I didn't seek him out as a guru.

<<I am here to be a deviotee>>

That should read.." I am NOT here to be a devotee.

<<that even in order to experience Sai Baba ( if you are a devotee) fully, you cannot take the position " I think he is this... or that... I accept this teaching.... this is my interpretation" etc.... NO way... you will end up nowhere.>>

I disagree with that. I will still be heading in the same direction that I'm going...LOL.
In this life of mine...I do not have to accept Sai Baba as anything or anyone. I am here to be a deviotee. That is not important to me or my development at this point. It is not important wheter he is the Poona Avatar to me or whether I know he even exists on this planet.This is why I say I am not a devotee... not in the true Indian sense of the word.

I was a beleiver in Sai Baba...98% (lol) believed that he was who/what he said he was. I never got to 100%.

<<Accepting that he is of a higher nature than yourself, but then applying your own interpretation of what he is, is like swallowing the camel and rejecting the gnat !! If you truly accept he is a self realised being, how come you do not trust his word over your own judgement which is that of a normal human being ??>>

Because, in this life I am here to be my own judge and jury and live according to the God-Within...not the avatar without. I do not necessarily follow any teacher's word or advice or judgement unless it coincides with my own, even if I suspect that he may know more than I do and be more developed. I am not here to follow anyone other than my High-Self...I can still observe and listen to them though, and learn from them.

Now , that is not true for all people, but for me, that is my truth.

It's not all or nothing for me. If someone earns my full trust, then I will trust fully. If someone earns partial trust, I trust accordingly. But I am not dependant on them for my life.

One reason ( I can't help but feel) that many are being turned away from SB, is, I believe, because they are suppossed to be developing their own judgement, not seeking or always looking for advice from outside of themselves..And they are supposeed to be finding the God -within, not seeking to live too dependantly on those who are higher in development. In other words, some are being sent out to pasture to live on their own..because it's time for them to do so, in their stage of development.

Again, this in NOT true for all people.

/m2472

I do agree that Spiritual Masters may prescribe teachings to disciples according to their individual needs at that time, taking into account several different things.

That doesn't explain the very basic factual contradictions that Sai Baba makes, with regard to individuals, names, places , incidents, dates etc, nor is it a valid argument to say that all these things have deeper significances.

If he calls you Beth today, and then Catherine tomorrow just by mistake, then if you go on and assume "it must mean I had either been Catherine in a previous life or going to be in my next life"... well this exactly is the mentality that fanatic believers of Sai Baba have. A projection and extension of this mentality is what that leads them to think and say " If Sai Baba fondled genitals, and even seemingly had sex, it must have a great divine meaning which we cannot understand". Such an attitude makes it possible for all and every error of word and deed of Sai Baba to be explained away thus.

I look at it from the other point of view. If he says he is what he is, then there can be no possible error at all, even once. From this point of view, and framework, if I have sufficient and proveable evidence that he has deliberately lied or committed an act EVEN ONCE , that contradict what he says about himself, then the whole theory of "poorna avatar " collapses.

I am applying Sai Baba's own defined and stated high standards in analysing him, you are applying your own much lower standards in doing so, hence the difference.

In fact I seem to have greater faith than you :-) LOL ... I had 200 % faith in Sai Baba's words when I was a devotee :-)

Thanks,

Hari Sampath

SB has to speak differently to different groups or individuals, because humans are at differing and various stages of development, temperment, cultural/religious background, etc... There are varying degrees of truth (or expressions of truth). There is also a vast variety of ways to express truth...and a vast array of colorful individual souls to express it. I.E., We are all different and our differenses "color" our understanding and way of seeing and expressing.

Some things that Sai Baba might say to one person, might actually be dangerous or wrong advice for another individual. And some things that he might say to one group from a certain cultural background, might be contradictory advice for people from another cultural background. So, this can easily (imo) explain why the "seeming" contradictions are there in his speech, in his advice, his teachings, his prophecies etc...

>>Sai Baba, I believe is a Self-Realized Being. I can't say whether he is or isn't an Avatar or the Poornar Avatar. I have no way of answering that for myself. But I do believe that he is a Self-Realized being. <<

That again is your own interpretation, in fact clearly contradicted by Sai Baba in the most straightforward terms. There are hundreds of speeches and interviews in which he says he is NOT a self realised being, but instead a "poorna avatar". He clearly makes this distinction between a self realised being and a poorna avatar. He says that although anyone can become a self realised being, it is impossible for anyone to be an avatar.

He makes this distinction between a "karma janma" and "leela janma",( karmic birth and birth of sport) meaning, even the life of a self realised being is for the purpose of realising self, and comes attached with it, all the past karmas of previous lives, both good and bad. Even a self realised being would not have any control over the place and station of birth and life, but Sai Baba says it is the poorna avatar alone who is born with no trace of karma, good or bad, choosing the time and place of birth, and his life is a divine sport.

A self realised being is one on the upward path, and having attained it, but an Avatar is a downward descent.

So, if you think that Sai Baba is a self realised being, you are wrong ( according to Sai Baba himself ). Even pursuing your line of thinking for just argument's sake, a self realised being , at the very minimum, would have to be absolutely Truthful about spiritual levels of knowledge etc. A self realised being would not call himself/herself an Avatar. According to Sai Baba ( and I agree with him on this, he is correct)there may be any number of self realised beings present at any point , in the world, but an Avatar is always ONLY ONE.

Hence, in Sai Baba's case, there is no question of there being any grey area, or anything open to debate or interpretation. You can either accept him totally, or not, there can be no via media or in betweens. As a matter of fact, from my personal experience, I can tell you that even in order to experience Sai Baba ( if you are a devotee) fully, you cannot take the position " I think he is this... or that... I accept this teaching.... this is my interpretation" etc.... NO way... you will end up nowhere.

Accepting that he is of a higher nature than yourself, but then applying your own interpretation of what he is, is like swallowing the camel and rejecting the gnat !! If you truly accept he is a self realised being, how come you do not trust his word over your own judgement which is that of a normal human being ??

Thanks,

Hari Sampath

Well, explaining this can get convoluted.

 Before I get into it, I want to say that don't subscribe to the "all is God, therefore anything and everyhting is moral, legal , ok, etc..." that's one concept that some people have used to excuse Sai Baba's alleged behavior. I don't. There is no excuse for pedophelia. I don't excuse it. but I do question whether SB's behavior is really pedophilia.

Therefore, I refrain from judging beyond what I know about him..or what I personally feel. I refrain from being disgusted with him or being too attached to SB and his activites. We average, mortal humans cannot always know from viewing the surface of things, what might be taking place on deeper levels. The only reason I leave the door open with SAi Baba is because so many thousands of people have expereinced SB as a benevolent healer, and guide and protector in their lives. He may look like a pedophile to some. He may look like a criminal to some. And to others he is a healer and a powerful entity who does good. I can't say what he is.

To get back to your question...Sai says "I am God, and so are you , but you don't know it yet." In other words , Sai is more developed in Self-Awareness than most of mankind. He is beyond man in his God-Awareness. Sai Baba, I believe is a Self-Realized Being. I can't say whether he is or isn't an Avatar or the Poornar Avatar. I have no way of answering that for myself. But I do believe that he is a Self-Realized being. But there is still much that I don't know about the deeper truths of life..and that most people don't know either.


<<<... he clearly says that " the entire universe has evolved out of Sai"... he doesn't say "Beth is the avatar, the entire universe has come out of Beth">>

Sai is an energy, not a person. When he uses the term sai....it is not personal or egoistic referring to his body mind spirit. It is beyond the body, beyond the individuality.
Again, SAi is an energy , not a person or an ego, or an individuality as we know it. The word "Sai" is meaning "the Cosmos" as he is using it. This is what he means.

He is not speaking from the EGO (the individuality) of the body of Sathya Sai Baba...
And neither was Jesus when Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth and the Light"....Jesus was speaking as "One with God consciousness"..merged in God the Father... He was speaking as the Christed One ( the self-realized one) The Father is the Way, the Truth and the Light, not Jesus the man/ Jesus the body. When one is merged with God, one speaks as God.

Edited by author 06-23-2002 09:28 PM
So how do you interpret it ?

What I had mentioned in my earlier post was Sai Baba says he is God incarnate, and the Poorna Avatar the ONLY avatar, no greater avatar has ever been born etc... he clearly says that " the entire universe has evolved out of Sai"... he doesn't say "Beth is the avatar, the entire universe has come out of Beth"


SB changes the tone of his message cleverly depending upon where it is going. For instance, he has been saying all his life he is the reincarnation of Shirdi Sai Baba, but when a Times of India correspondent asked him the same question, SB gives a very evasive and vague reply:

>>Questioner: How do you relate yourself to Saibaba of Shirdi?

Swami: This body has not seen him. <<

See what I mean... why not give a bold strong straightforward answer saying " I am the reincarnation of Shirdi Sai Baba".... but SB would not.,.... he knows very well that the normal people will start laughing... so he has one set of answers for the so called SB devotees which say " I am Rama, Krishna, Father of Christ, Shirdi Sai Baba " etc, and another set of responses for the general public like " I am God, you are God, all is God, I am aware of it, you are not" etc.

Come to think of it the latter response is the one you give to people on the spiritual path, who can be better expected to understand the "all is god" concept, and the general public is the one who needs straightforward answers like " I am an Avatar"...but Sai Baba doesn't do that... in order to be less controversial. This was my point all the time


Hari Sampath

He does proclaim himself to be the Avatar. I never said he didn't. He also claims to be God. I never said he didn't say that.

 The problem lies in how people interpret those words.

>>No, that's not true<<

Beth, are you saying that Sai Baba does not proclaim himself to be the avatar ?

Hari Sampath

Thanks, but I am not going to be baited into a foolish argument in which the outcome is uncertain.

You have no knowledge of what you speak, and yet you speak as if you know it all. This betrays a certain conceitedness that is not worth bothering with.

It would be much better for you to realise what a fake Sai Baba is, and the better for all of us.

Sanjay

can anyone

 tell me where


redyy can be contacted.very urgent

as i have my story to compare with her.

To Truelight

Re..........I think we have indulged enough from our friend in India... Phew, he reminds me of all the bad encounters I've had with Indian men 'near and around' S.B. over the past decade.

It appeared like a parting shot and antagonistic to someone leaving the board. If it was not intended so, then I apologise.

I have deleted a post that was having another shot at VVReddy - plus his reply where he kindly suggested the deletions. I think it would be best if we got on with truth of the subject at hand rather than use space with emotional reactions.

<<Beth..... SB doesn't say that you or me is all this... he says
that "he is all this".>>

No, that's not true. You guys have not studied Sai's words closely enough at all. I've had over 15 years of reading Sai quotes...I know by now what he stands for...and what he means when he speaks.
And I'm not talking about phrases and concepts borrowed from the Vedas, etc...I'm talking aobut his own natural original words out of his mouth, which shows me his awareness, his consciousness, his common sense, etc...

Good Lord!

Gorrwd! attack???? when?? Anthony.

There you go again reading something in a message that is not there. Golly Anthony - please.

If I were anti Sai - I would have had your full support but when I speak the truth - and it is the truth - and put nicely...you complain.


Talking about crude, well Jag baby was it.I could have put my views a lot more 'upfront', if I had that sort of mind but I don't.

I have already explained to V.V. what I feel on the board address provided by him!!!!

Go and look ----

Women have rights too - Good God man - you insult me.


By the way when was you last in PP or Whitefield?

 

Everyone there complains about the terrible stuff going on - and you say you want to stand up for truth.

(Only it would seem when the youths are yelling foul against S.B.)

You are a good man Anthony Thomas,May God bless you.

Re 2456 Good point made re Christianity.

Truelight. There is no need to express your personal feelings about a particular nationality on this board. And no-one can be blamed for defending themselves against such a statement.

Perhaps more tolerance for the incredible and wonderful variety of all the world cultures and beliefs would not be a bad way for us all to go. Surely, everyone comes together to make a great richness and a broad picture of humanity. All people, all races, being equal in every way.

Please do not attack departing members. Anyone leaving this board goes with our love and good wishes. I sincerely thank VV Reddy for his wishes for me. I shall do my best.

Sanjay Dadlani,if you are interested you may give a rejoinder at the links provided,of course hoping that the moderator of that board would not ask me to leave so courteously like Anthony Thomas,ROFL ROFL.

Sathya Sai Baba - Manava Or Avataram

http://www.quicktopic.com/8/H/xGc5TzRrJmP7

Edited by author 06-23-2002 11:57 AM
Quoting Andries"In other words V.V. Reddy admits that the SSB org has a cult like structure and secrecy. I can understand that if one has faith in SSB as an avatar there has to be a hierarchical structure but I can't understand the secrecy."are you suggesting that Christanity is a cult?Are you suggesting the Pope at the Head of Papacy is absolutely OPEN.Andries the entire world witnessed how OPENLY the Bishops,Priests and other officials of the Church were scrutinised for the Pedophilic activities?

Madam Truelight quoting you"I think we have indulged enough from our friend in India... Phew, he reminds me of all the bad encounters I've had with Indian men 'near and around' S.B. over the past decade."have i insulted you anyway,that you so disparagingly blame Indian men?How dare you,madam?

As for you Alex,if my ROFL ROFL,is a problem for you,all you need to do is ignore me,why do you drag Swami into it?

R cube quotes"> with such gay abandon.
 
 :-)"i know you passed your TOEFL,Your GRE,and accepted in the schools of USA,if you did not understand the context of the usage of my words,do i need to continue ROFL ROFL ;ooh sorry Alex?

I will give you all a Hint.Please dont quote me or drag me into your discussion,I WILL not interefere with you all in this board.But if i am dragged into conversation,isnt it fair that i give my replies too?

Quoting Anthony Thomas"However, I feel the time has come to bring this board back fully in line with its intent. I wish you well with your future life and may you walk in the true path of Light."thank you for your genuine concern and intent,but i am already living a second life because of the true path of light.I pray the Lord and wish yourpresent and future life,may you walk in the true path of Light.

To Anthony and Beth, others,

I think we have indulged enough from our friend in India... Phew, he reminds me of all the bad encounters I've had with Indian men 'near and around' S.B. over the past decade.

Western women are 'mostly' treated badly out there in the East - where we are thought of as cheap,easy and rich. And they have no regard for our age -or rank. (married or single.)

Our 'two' friends brought that clearly home to me over this weekend. And how offended I have felt on many of my trips to India, by these loose tongue - cheeky young men who seem to hang out of every doorway in PP, Whitefield.

As for these 'characters' being Sai devotees - Oh, do get real - Alex.

They are only arrogant, boastful,presumptuous,self-important people who visit the ashram. And yes, Sai Baba probably loves them and is likely to give them places in his Organisation.

Afterall ... ;) his organisation is nothing but a hospital -as he points out to us time and time again.

Sai Baba has few nice people around him - nice people don't need the 'treatment' nor the medicine.

Cults?

The Sai's movement is the exactly the same as most other spiritual movements in India. They all function the same way. They are all full of 'self important' people with loose mouths wanting powerful places and self importance in the name of spirituality.

(Much the same as with the churches here.)
   

I would say it is the same with every organisation and govenment in this world. (East or West).

Thank you, Anthony, for finally telling Mr. Reddy he's had his say. Now I can start reading the board again. I agree with 'from the ladies,' that vulgarities and strong language are very offensive to women.

Edited by author 06-23-2002 09:17 AM
V.V. Reddy wrote in /m2437
>>Sathya Sai Organisation is such a closely held organisation,with so much of secrecy,loyalty,truth one would be crazy to even speculate.Each and everyone is personally chosen by Swami for each position.There is a hierarchy,which is followed to the tee.

Swami hopes he will have something like the Vatican Country.Prashanthi Nilayam at Puttaparthi is transformed totally by Swami from what it used to and what it is today.<<

In other words V.V. Reddy admits that the SSB org has a cult like structure and secrecy. I can understand that if one has faith in SSB as an avatar there has to be a hierarchical structure but I can't understand the secrecy.

Besides according to V.V. Reddy SSB wants Prashanti Nilayam to become an independent state like the Vatican or at least have such a degree of freedom and independency that it is not bothered by the Indian law. I can understand that the SSB org has some reason for this desire.

Hari Sampath wrote:

>>To Beth:

There is no confusion at all about SB's "proclaimed divinity".

He says " If someone asks you where is god, ask them to go to
Puttaparthi"

"I am Krishna and Rama and father of Jesus"

Beth..... SB doesn't say that you or me is all this... he says
that "he is all this".

SB devotees hide behind this so called spiritual truth of "all
is god" when confronted by facts that show that SB is NOT an
avatar... sb himself hides behind this.

SB is claiming he is an "avatar".

SB has been proved to be a cheat, a liar and a molestor.

The Spiritual concept that "all is God".. doesn't answer the
fact that SB is a fake, nor can it be an excuse ( would you
accept if I said that Hitler was god, because all is God ?"<<

Amen to that.

Thank you so much.

You saved me one posting. ;-)

Alex

Sorry, I haven't had the time to read the previous 250 messages of the last two days, I just wanted to ask Mr. Reddy if he perhaps could stop "rolling on the floor laughing" all day. I don't think that makes him much credible. Perhaps he should ask SB to heal him from that.

Thanks,

Alex

It is a pity that those people from India backgrounds have to bring their personal intolerances onto this board. It is also a pity that some also use foul language on a public board, or other sexual discriptive words etc. that many women find offensive and belittling.

Please 'persons' from Indian backgrounds, remember you do not use these words or discussions in front of your-------------------

mothers, sisters, aunts, cousins, girlfriends and wives ----------

being that it is not the done thing in India.


I too, even though a Western women, find your expression of pent-up feelings let loose on this board wholey unnecessary and childish. This particular message is aimed at a person called Jag but it is meant for all of you that express unnecessary 'low' language.


thank you.

You are absolutely right Anthony - no one wants to listen to two ego 'hotheads' talking about their country, their interests, their caste, their guru. (Their leaders, their political views on and on). It is all one-up-man-hip and typical of many Indian men.

btw way Anthony I could never answer your questions because I could never find them in all this unnecessary cluttering of the board.


Also, the foul language from 'jag' - well we don't need him. (I think he may be 'persona' other half to V.V.)

This board has been set up for a specific purpose. To help those with genuine doubts about 'sb' or need of support during their time of disconnecting from him. Over the years we have learned how to tell those who are genuinely seeking help and advice.

T0 VV Reddy I feel you have been given ample time now (150 posts) to express your view. We understand that you have no doubts about your guru, but your posts have been accepted on this board as there have been benefits in the exchange of communication they have offered. The differing view also hopefully teaches us all to be more tolerant and accepting of those who still feel committed to their guru. However, I feel the time has come to bring this board back fully in line with its intent. I wish you well with your future life and may you walk in the true path of Light.

> with such gay abandon.
 
 :-)

so you are currently at Hyderabad?

/m2442 ,please dont reply like that.I did not mean to be rude,with so many of them out here i dont who is genuine and who is pulling my leg.But do go back to old messages,i am relatively new here,and somehow have been given another lease of life to express my experience,which is my good fortune.I am sorry if i hurt your feelings in anyway even if you are 2 cents worth.

Quoting Sanjay Dadlani"Srila Prabhupada never had sex with his disciples, because he knew the correct standard of the guru-disciple relationship"really and you wildly accuse Swami of Pedophilia,and yet whose organisation is publicly being SUED for child molestations,child abuse,minor rapes,rapes of adults,financial mismanagement and bankruptcy.Go take hike and jump in the river Thames,you blithering idiot.

You blustering barnacles,you will have one standard to measure Swami and totally another set of standard to measure Prabhupadas screwing propensity,ROFL ROFL,which he taught his Sishyas but who were not so intelligent and slimy like Prabhupada,and have been caught with their undies down,ROFL and their tikkis bobbing up in the air from their heads,ROFL ROFL.

VVR: well, I don't think my opinion is worth more than 2cents, and hence the name. I never meant to insult you or your opinion - and can't understand where you got the impression.

Hope this clarifies my position. If you are not at Hyderabad now, you can say so instead of beating around the bush. I understant that there could be 100s of reasons for you not being at Hyd now.

Edited by author 06-23-2002 12:25 AM
/m2439 ,with a name like that do you want me to consider your queries seriously?Please dont insult me and my experience,with Swami.Am i supposed tear open my heart like Hanuman and show a picture to you what happened,please.<BR>...STRAIGHT ANSWER ,PLEASE....<BR>

A link for old news about my state and country
http://backissues.worldlink.co.uk/ILink/68/25.htm
from this state and country,Swami is guiding multitudes of human beings from various nationalities,religion,caste,creed,colour.

V.V.Reddy - I was under the impression that you are a businessman at Hyderabad. Or are you from U.K? Be honest, lest all your claims become questionable.

...STRAIGHT ANSWER PLEASE....

actually, I am beginning to wonder if you had an encounter with Sathya as you described....why can't you answer a simple question?

The area code is 040 not 080 as mentioned by me earlier,i regret my typographical error,.

Sathya Sai Organisation is such a closely held organisation,with so much of secrecy,loyalty,truth one would be crazy to even speculate.Each and everyone is personally chosen by Swami for each position.There is a hierarchy,which is followed to the tee.

Swami hopes he will have something like the Vatican Country.Prashanthi Nilayam at Puttaparthi is transformed totally by Swami from what it used to and what it is today.Critical talks will always be there,but one should look at the good and balance things and come to proper conclusions.Anyone and anything can be debated,and torn asunder,Swami is no exception.He has been weathering so much of resitance from 1940,that itself is another MIRACLE.

(080)3356862 APSEB,ASST ENGINEER ELECTRICALS RD NO 3 BANJARA HILLS HYDERABAD 9:06 A.M. Please call after 10.30 AM if lucky you will get connected ROFL ROFL

/m2430 , Please read this,Andhra Pradesh, stands third in terms of installed power capacity in India. The State envisages doubling of its power generation capacity by the year 2002 AD.

Installed Power Capacity 7330 MW (break-up)
Planned Additional Capacity - 7230 MW
The Andhra Pradesh State Electricity Board (APSEB) has maintained a tradition of effective planning, formulation and implementation of power plants. The plant load factor has always been well above the national average and secondary oil consumption is also much below the national average (1.53 ml/Kwh against 4.13 ml/Kwh) (97-98)

ROFL ROFL,poor Chandra Babu Naidu,our Chief Minister is doing so much for out Telegu Desam,you of all the people who has applied for your green card,dare to comment about us.I know America needs software professionals as they are in great need,in fact many of my friends are there.So,buddy,cool it,not another spin from you,ROFL ROFL.Its even more funny coming from you,especially our neighbhouring state Tamil Nadu,which Hari Sampath hails from,is so deep in water shortage,power shortage,but,their CM Madam Jaylalitha,a fellow Iyengar to boot,corrupt to the core,ROFL ROFL.Are begging for water from us thru Krishna River Project with already a dispute with other neighbhouring state of Karnataka,these tamil arrogant,have nothing but empty talks.

No wonder you hate Swami,a telegu bidda,if i may use it fondly.

http://www.andhrapradesh.com/

V.V.Reddy - I was under the impression that you are a businessman at Hyderabad. Or are you from U.K? Be honest, lest all your claims become questionable.

...STRAIGHT ANSWER PLEASE....

Also, dont try and change the subject.

SB is a rascal, and those who believe he even has some REMOTE connection with divinity are also rascals, fools, nuts, idiots, disgusting.

Sanjay

Here is a recent letter to the editor by a Hyderabad guy !!

>>Power Problems: ' Switch it ,Shut it, Forget it....'

The much touted reform process in A.P. appears like the theatre of the absurd, take the case of electricity department , what was projected to the people was that they would get quality power at competitive rates, but alas all our expectations were belied. We get more than we bargained for, as our Electricity board suddenly quotes some gibberish which we do not comprehend and bingo there is stratospheric rise in power tariff, in order to keep TRANSCO & GENCO in good health. And they are sure to have good health after all. They are fleecing a lot of moolah from us and now quality power is the mantra.

 As usual this mantra is not working, as we could see, that TRANSCO is still supplying us with two types of power one is 300+ Volts (normal power is 220 Volts) and the other is 90- Volts and the people residing in these two areas need candles to make things visible. As in 300+ Volt areas, when they switch on the bulbs they invariably tend to get burnt and hence they are afraid to switch on the lights . And in 90- Volt areas the light is so dim that they need candles and with the steep hike in power tariff everybody now needs candles !

The less said the better about power cuts in the city. Now with the onset of Monsoons thanks to the Electricity Department the rains shower with free complimentary power cuts for the people to enjoy the rains in all its natural splendor . <<<

So, I am lying about power cuts ??? I was trying to call my relative through the internet for the last 2 days... and he told me that they have had power in the city only for 12 hrs out of 48 hrs , entire city..so just think before you lie .. moron !!


Hari Sampath

/m2419 V.V.Reddy: >>The very Hare Krishna Movement rocked by child molestation,pedophilia,child abuse in the gurukulas,and bankruptcy because of a convenient loophole in the American justice system,ROFL ROFL.<<

Well this is a nice strategy of SB devotees who point fingers BACK at accuser's own movements (which are separate from personal religious beliefs) with no result at all. Same has been done against other people.

Well the difference is, all the "crap" that happened in ISKCON has and is being investigated, processed and the investigations are made public. No one has their heads buried in the sand and EVERYONE is aware. Also, those who are found guilty of any "crimes" are penalised, regardless of their position spiritual or or otherwise.

Now has the SB Org even performed an INTERNAL investigation, let alone a public external one? I think you will find the answer to be a resounding "NO."

BTW, isn't it hypocritical of you to criticise ISKCON and then turning around and copying slokas from my posts and also making use of SP's teachings?

Sanjay

>>>Caste system is deep rooted in India,you need special brain and attention to understand the mechanics of it,especially if you are an outsider to the ways of our life.Since you are in total awe of Hari Sampath, a Sri Vaishanava,i doubt you understand what typical traits such communities display.I am in no way degrading anybody here,but just telling you natures displayed.Its not stereotyping,but shows patterns,and methods of madness.<<

There you go again... when all else fails... you revert to your caste speech.

And stop sucking up to Anthony slavishly... he ain't a dumbass to fall for your sleazy flattery.. he knows you better.

Hari Sampath

/m2426 ,my god Hari Sampath what a liar you are.Please call A.P.State Electricity Board,dear readers,if anyone wishes i will even give the phone number to call and talk to them directly.We are not living in stoneage.For Krishnas sake,Hari Sampath,who are all those chaps,and why should i be them,ROFL ROFL.Another display of madness,i thought Bharaa Bhajays were only applicable to Punjabis,looks like we need to expand it to others like Iyengars like Hari Sampath,ROFL ROFL.

Edited by author 06-22-2002 10:50 PM
>>>IP address,sure thing,a law enforcement agencies,or the webmaster of this board,or to a person access to the servers,or with appropriate softwares things can be done.You can do better than that Hari,Narayana Narayana Narayana<<<

Or something called cookies which throw open the question of your physical presence... when you foolishly click on links... go to sleep...stupid wannabe doctor Rkmsr... I have caught you out dozens of times....and by the way.... at least 15-20 times of your so called "posts from Hyderabad"... in the last 2-3 days , are when the Hyderabad city was experiencing all out power shut down due to electric grid failure... LOL :-) get real, and at least try to lie cleverly :-) Also, each time you click any link on my website ( as you recently did for the Vajpayee Blair letters)... I get a notification... I have configured you specially for that... so don't think you are even clever... you are just a dumb fool... in keeping with your "guru and god" :-)

Hari Sampath

Anthony Thomas i quote from one of the posters here""Thereafter, at the conjunction of two yugas, the Lord of the creation will take His birth as the Kalki incarnation and become the son of Vishnu Yasha. At this time the rulers of the earth will have degenerated into plunderers." [Srimad Bhagavatam 1.3.25]

"Thereafter, at the end of Kali-yuga, when there exist no topics on the subject of God, even at the residences of so-called saints and respectable gentlemen of the *****three higher castes********, and when the power of government is transferred to the hands of ministers elected from the lowborn ********shudra class or those less than them******, and when nothing is known of the techniques of sacrifice, even by word, at that time the Lord will appear as the supreme chastiser." [Srimad Bhagavatam 1.2.38]

Caste system is deep rooted in India,you need special brain and attention to understand the mechanics of it,especially if you are an outsider to the ways of our life.Since you are in total awe of Hari Sampath, a Sri Vaishanava,i doubt you understand what typical traits such communities display.I am in no way degrading anybody here,but just telling you natures displayed.Its not stereotyping,but shows patterns,and methods of madness.

Srimad Bhagavatham and Bugawath Gita are two Holy books of Hindus,in fact the word HINDU,itself will never be found in any of the ancient text,its a corrupt form of addressing the native people of River Sindhu,which later came to be called the Indus Valley Civilisation.Subsequently the mogul conquerors called Hindustan (place of the Hindus).

My respect for you has only increased from earlier because,you are showing outstanding temperment for 'tolerance' of a beliver of another faith.Thanks.You are proving every Sai devotee wrong.Thanks,i owe you one.

V.V.Reddy - I was under the impression that you are a businessman at Hyderabad. Or are you from U.K? Be honest, lest all your claims become questionable.

Quoting Hari Sampath"there is something called IP addresses) VV Reddy aka Rkmsr aka Sai Baba 1926... you stink a mile away... perhaps 3600 miles away at least... and probably more." come again,ROFL ROFL.Man,you are unbelievable,its a pity,such a lot of ex devotees are pining their hopes on you.IP address,sure thing,a law enforcement agencies,or the webmaster of this board,or to a person access to the servers,or with appropriate softwares things can be done.You can do better than that Hari,Narayana Narayana Narayana

Quoting Hari Sampath"Tens of thousands of people saw the original , pitiable , begging letters published by the SB org... so ask the SB org this question" so Sathya Sai Organisation invitation to a Head of State is"begging letter"ROFL ROFL.Mark My Words,the atrocities committed by British and especially Christians will bring them such untold miseries,for they are using and abusing Jesus Christ,for their own selfish needs.Take the case of Brits,wherever they went they colonised and spread their religion of Jesus Christ much to the consternation of the local natives.New Zealand,Australia,South Africa,USA-all the natives,the aborigines and other local tribes like the native americans were wiped out from the face of earth barring a few,all in the name of Jesus Christ.

The power of Jesus Christ,Allah,Brahman,Yahway,Azura Mazda,and other divine originations are all rolled in the Sai,who in its triple incarnation will teach the perpetrators of crime,a lesson of the ages.Just watch and see how events will unfold.But,i still feel that Srimad Athivan Satakopan alias Kidambi Srinivasachar,should be termed as anti-christ,a vishista-adavaita exponent,who hates Jesus Christ like crazy,of which you and your family are die-hard devotees,a Sri Vaishanava.

Edited by author 06-22-2002 09:53 PM
>>but its there for all to see "naturally,ROFL.But it is still very hard for me to believe the British would things like this,they are known for their sophisticated cunningness,<<

The people who did this were the Indian SB org, so with a rustic , crude SB as its head, you can well expect it. The SB org published the "public" letter from Vajpayee as well their own letter to Blair on their website. When Blair's visit was stopped by us, and when we published Blair's response ( written to MP Tony Colman)... the SB org beat a hasty retreat, and took down the original letters... cowards !! Tens of thousands of people saw the original , pitiable , begging letters published by the SB org... so ask the SB org this question.

( and btw....you know NOTHING of the British or anyone else... just shut up and go to sleep... its late in UK,..... yes, I know where you are.... there is something called IP addresses) VV Reddy aka Rkmsr aka Sai Baba 1926... you stink a mile away... perhaps 3600 miles away at least... and probably more.

Hari Sampath

Quoting Hari Sampath"I agree ... its extremely unfair to bracket sb as the "third anti christ" , He deserves the position and (dis)honor of the primary anti christ..... but don't worry, we will set this historic blunder correct "what is fair is that Srimad Athivan Satakopan alias Kidambi Srinivasachar,should be termed as anti-christ,a vishista-adavaita exponent,who hates Jesus Christ like crazy,of which you and your family are die-hard devotees,ROFL ROFL.Obviously,you will deny it,what else will you do,having failed in your attempt in Supreme Court Of India,and now Central Bureua Of Investigation,using your complaint file as 'Toilet Paper',ROFL ROFL.

Look who is talking"And right after making such an ASTOUNDING declaration, he will return to his rooms for an all-night session of debauchery".The very Hare Krishna Movement rocked by child molestation,pedophilia,child abuse in the gurukulas,and bankruptcy because of a convenient loophole in the American justice system,ROFL ROFL.

As for the Christians,the Bishops,Priests,activities of pedophilia rocking the foundation of faith in so many Catholics.At least in Swamis case,none of it has been proved conclusively,and its all wild allegations,innuendos,wilfully staging violent drams.

Quotinh Hari Sampath"Naturally, I wouldn't tell you how I got PM Blair's response, and published it on my site... but its there for all to see "naturally,ROFL.But it is still very hard for me to believe the British would things like this,they are known for their sophisticated cunningness,ROFL.As they usually rock the cradle and pinch the baby,(:

>>The third anti-christ : Is it fair to term Swami,as anti-christ?<<

 I agree ... its extremely unfair to bracket sb as the "third anti christ" , He deserves the position and (dis)honor of the primary anti christ..... but don't worry, we will set this historic blunder correct :-)

Hari Sampath

How utterly unbelievable and disgusting it is when people degrade themselves by going to any length to try to justify SB's "mistakes" [for want of a better term], even as far to the ridiculous notion that SB is merged in God-consciousness, and this is somehow an explanation??

IF SB was in God-consciousness, why does he make so many errors in his discourses about known historical events, et al? You would think that "God" would supply him with the correct information, right? :) Oh I forgot! SB claims to be God in his discourses! :)

And right after making such an ASTOUNDING declaration, he will return to his rooms for an all-night session of debauchery.

That's what God is all about, and if you don't understand that, you're still at an immature level of spirituality and you need to make some serious advancement to get to my level.

Sanjay

Ref 2412 :

>>But it does make one wonder,how the letter from Sathya Sai Organisation to Tony Blair,would become such a public document?<<

Because the Sai Baba organization decided to put it on the internet, on their website.... and I am afraid the internet is hardly private :-)( Note that PM Vajpayee himself had sad that they are going "public" with that letter)

Naturally, I wouldn't tell you how I got PM Blair's response, and published it on my site... but its there for all to see :-)

Hari Sampath

This is nuts...

/m2225 >> I still see the decency in the current devotees, but I have seen little of it in the anti-sai side. I don't recognize who these people are.. They don't have the same qualities as the devotees I know. They are lacking in fundamental understanding of the basic truths that SB teaches... <<

I don't think so. People tend to forget that after having gone through a personal "dark knight of the soul" (pun intended) most of their feelings are of deep hurt, betrayal, anger, vindictiveness, lashing out, spitefulness, etc etc etc, and in my opinion this is quite justified and perfectly natural considering the extent of the deception that affected them. More of it, I say!

>> Most of the so-called pro-side of this board are intelligent people sharing spiritual thoughts and feelings and their own experiences of Sai Baba... <<

...while simultaneously mocking the "spiritual thoughts and feelings" of those who are on the "anti-Sai" side. With deviated theories about caste, conspiracy theories, lying, employment, blasphemy, and then of course the swearing. Not very spiritual indeed.

/m2170 >> HEY...God is NOT a man or a body...God is a consciouness. God is not Jesus, God is not Krishna, God is Not Sai, the body...All of us spiritual students should understand these terms by now, and not still habor some naive notion that God is some MAN in the SKY lording over the world...and that Sai is claiming some exclusive position in the universe <<

Well I could do what I always do and ask you for some backup for your ideas but I guess you have none, as usual. Also, what you said is wrong. And I don't care how you defend it by calling it "intuition" or "experiences", it is still wrong.

>> And I can hear Sanjay getting ready to call me a blasphemous fool. lol <<

Well it's rather unfortunate that you have preconceived notions. I wouldn't say you were blasphemous, but just a fool. The idea that God is "consciousness energy" is part of the whole truth, but not the full version. Actually, the idea that God is consciousness is pretty naive, while the actual idea is that God is a person. And guess what? I can back myself up. :)

/m2146 SAISHOOT: >>Lord Vishnu is belived to have changed to be an enchanting woman called MOHINI and seduced Lord Siva..were they sexual perverts..?? <<

Other way around, mate. Mohini did not seduce Shiva. Mohini was so exceptionally beautiful that Shiva temporarily fell prey to a transcendental form of lust. I can even check it out for you if you want. By the way, I came across an earlier post of yours in which you sarcastically urged me to carry on studying the shastras so that I "relinquish my ego" or some other thing. Well thank you for your encouragement, because it is BECAUSE I have read the shastras and understood who God is that I perfectly know that SB cannot be God. There can be NO similarity at all. As for my ego, I prefer keeping it, since all what SB says about how we need to get rid of our egos is also a bunch of crap that passes for "high-class spiritual teachings" nowadays. Also, stop whining about how "egoistic" I am and whatnot. You failed to answer a few simple questins of mine about SB's divinity. I asked you to objectively prove it and you either can't or won't, so this sour grapes doe not affect me at all. :)

/m2099 [Most laughable post I have read so far]
>> Roshan, Mike, and some others, and now you too Alex, will only go after the women. There' something suspiciously "sissy" about that. I have always had a theory about men who do this.....guess what it is... a certain type of homosexual male will behave like this. <<

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So hands up! Who's gay? ROFL. :)

Since you asked me"Then why did Sai Baba and his org try to pitiably rope in Vajpayee and Blair ? We all saw the letter written by the SB org to Blair, and how he responded . WHY ??" they made a Himalayan Blunder if the letter is true and not forged.But it does make one wonder,how the letter from Sathya Sai Organisation to Tony Blair,would become such a public document?Knowing the British as much as i do"ITS HIGHLY IMPROPER"for 10 Downing Street.Unless there is more to it than what meets the eye.

The first anti-christ : Napolean Bonaparte

The second anti-christ: A.Hitler

The third anti-christ : Is it fair to term Swami,as anti-christ?

I leave it to you all ponder and think?the sign of Christanity royally adorns the insignia of Sathya Sai Organisation;Apart from OM,The Wheel Of Time,The Eternal Fire,The Crecent Moon and Star.The person leading such a Organisation is Swami.The Bible reveals in the chapter of revealation,how Satan cringes in front of the Sign of Cross.

Do think,think,......

Ref 2402 :

>>Should Indians be concerned about our PM(and his glowing letter with other eminent Indian Citizens) or the British PM views?Does Swami really need a certificate from their Lordships ,ahem Britons,that he is indeed endowed with paranormal powers,and ONLY then start believing ourselves?<<

Then why did Sai Baba and his org try to pitiably rope in Vajpayee and Blair ? We all saw the letter written by the SB org to Blair, and how he responded . WHY ??

Hari Sampath

Ref 2396:

>>."really,are you not one of the alleged victim?Chee Chee Chee,and you have never been physically handled by Swami,?Hmmmm"<<

NO ... where had I ever once said I was a victim of Sai Baba's sexual molestations ??

With reference to the online petition being signed by the victims or not... Conny Larsson and Hans de Kraker had signed it... others explained to me why they did not want to sign it. However everyone chose to sign and present legally attested affidavits for my petition in Indian courts and CBI, and FBI... thats their decision.

You are posing the question " how come nobody came out of the interview room screaming rape". I pose the question " how come nobody till date has ever written once about Sai Baba's so called healing by fondling genitals" ?

How is it possible for a young man to come out "screaming rape" from the interview room, when the whole lot of people outside believe SB to be the "avatar", including their immediate family. Especially when these young men themselves believed for a long time that these sexual acts were in someway "divine" as brainwashed by Sai Baba.

Addreess at least ONE point that I have been raising in the last 20 posts.... don't ramble pitiably.... you ARE A NUT... I agree.

Hari Sampath

A mans best friend is "THE DOG",R Cube.They are such loyal animals and express their delight when they see their master with such gay abandon.They are one of the best animals for humans.The loyalty that dogs display is so sadly missing in humans,maybe you should learn some lesson out of it.

<If for a moment you think Swami is "THE GOD"then you have not

  WEll i dont know about " THE GOD" ... but he sure is worse
  than "THE DOG"
  ;-P

Is it possible for you all,to let me know,how many pedophilia cases that you all are involved,apart from the unproved allegations against Swami?Is that too much to ask?Or are you all absolutely certain that the Sathya Sai Organisation will never ever qualify your statements but use other cleverer methods to get their points across?

I know exactly how you all feel,i am only a tip of the iceberg.There are umpteen number of us,private individuals,who will vouch for Swamis miraculous unexplainable cures,which at the surface to some is gross.

Sanjay Dadlani,please do bear with me.After all your guru Prabhupada has the unique distinction of starting a verbal volley of smutty talks against Swami.Another time another place.

/m1716 ,'Expressing anger at a pedophile who has been habitually raping 7 year old children and deceiving millions for years '

So,your good self,i am assuming you are clobbering the Prophet Of Islam-Mohamad,for making love to 9 year old Ayeesha,one of the 11 eleven wifes he had,about 1500 years back?That must require some GUTS.Bravo Bravo,not bad at all for a native from South India to cause such gigantic waves,ROFL ROFL.Of course,you must have evidence for all this,right,hmmmmm.

This is nuts..

/m1723 ,'When the SB org tried to get PM Vajpayee to "glorify and defend" sb publicly and also to get PM Blair to meet him, our group intervened, stopped this meeting, and also got a very unflattering letter about Sai Baba from PM Blair.... all posted on our website'

Should Indians be concerned about our PM(and his glowing letter with other eminent Indian Citizens) or the British PM views?Does Swami really need a certificate from their Lordships ,ahem Britons,that he is indeed endowed with paranormal powers,and ONLY then start believing ourselves?The British were asked to leave in 1947 in our non-violent freedom struggle led by Mahatma Gandhi.As a parting shot before they left us,our nation was divided in religious background,which even now is smouldering into a catastrophic Nuclear Blackmail,by terroist Pakis.

/m1723 ,'Ourt group is responsible for the ONLY judicial process initiated against Sai Baba in an Indian court, the matter rests pending still.'

Now we know better,right??Wink,ROFL.

/m1723 ,'We were responsible for the ONLY two official actions initiated against Sai Baba , with the CBI in India, and with the FBI in the Unites States. BOTH these criminal complaints have been officially acknowledged , accepted AND I had personally been invited by the FBI tor discussions last year, which eventually led to the US Dept of State isuing a warning. We were the first to give an official package of victims testimonies to the US Dept of State and US embassy in 2000'

Gosh this guy is unbelievable????An Indian who has gone to the shores of United States Of America that too few years(still in H1 B Visa),has managed to convince the State Department run by Bush Administrations and that too Republicans,at least if it had been Democrats,i would be less sceptical;to issue Travel Warnings,ROFL ROFL.I bet 100 to 1,a white caucasian american citizen of USA with links to his Senators,Legislators must be behind this,and our native from South India is trying to HOG it all;preposterous,ROFL ROFL.Did i not warn you guys before a certain community and their typical traits,ROFL ROFL

/m1723 ,'see the early 100 messages on Lane's board to see how it all started, and how David joined us.'where i cannot see it???.Repeatedly it says messages have been deleted.Am i supposed to pounce on you,and label you as liar,and go on a slandering spree?

Andries ,thats awfully nice of you,thank you!!Just between you and me(1)Can you trust me(2)Can i trust you.How does one build trust?What makes a person believe and trust?Has Swami acted in any manner wherein i should suspect him?especially concerning me and my activities.What Swami does or does not do with others is an entirely private matter.How can i intrude their privacy?Even if i did,who do you think,i should believe,given my personal experience that i share with many others in the world?

Not many people here seem to understand me well,but then,every man/woman is an individual,god has given each and everyone of us the same talent and skills.They have to decide on their own.To my best of my ability,i have played ball with all here,i have stooped low and fought in the same level as i was attacked,and i have shown equanimity when called for.My consceince is very clear.

V.V. Reddy,
Devotees who come here are supposed to be interested in the question whether SSB deserves their trust.

I see only little sincere attempt by you to answer this question.

Why don't you go study http://www.exbaba.com and compare it with e.g. http://www.sathyasai.org ? Try to find out whether the statements of SSB are better founded than those of ex-devotees and skeptics. There is excellent material on the 'Studies' section of http://www.exbaba.com

Kind regards, Andries K.D.

Edited by author 06-22-2002 07:03 PM
/m1752 ,"The reason why all the victims are not signing the "online petition" would have to be addressed to them, I cannot speak for them."really,are you not one of the alleged victim?Chee Chee Chee,and you have never been physically handled by Swami,?Hmmmm"I had already explained why I think this is a poorly drafted petition, the reason why I chose not to sign it."really,so you have started to teach English language to Englishers,Bravo?ROFL.

Anthony Thomas, you will not only look like a complete and utter contradicting confused man if you ask VV to stay considering your previous post regarding ht basis of this group but you will also lose respect as you seem to be lostin what you are saying and what you are doing!

Well mate praying to your false God will not help it ROFL

LUN U ARE LUN U WILL BE

Dear Anthony Thomas:

Thank you for giving an oppurtunity to express myself,in your board.Some of the arrogance of people here are now back to pleading you and reminding you ,your own set ideals,for the conduct in this place.I ask you for the third time,am i welcome in your board?Thanks.I see in you an extremely honourable person,even though we disagree on our beliefs.

Edited by author 06-22-2002 06:17 PM
To Anthony :

I think Anthony, it is high time to apply the standards of this board in practice. This is NOT a pro vs anti Sai Baba board.

As far as I can understand from my association with this board from the begining ( even in earlier versions), this is a board for ex devotees to discuss their experiences about Sai Baba, and for discussing the impacts the fraud of Sai Baba has caused to their personal and spiritual lives.

However much Beth or others like VV Reddy may try to expain it, this is NOT a place for Pro versus anti arguments , and these arguments can be taken elsewhere.

So, I request you to delete all posts referring to Pro Sai Baba or attacking those who expose Sai Baba, and not alow similar people or posts in future.

Since you have time and again re-defined the purpose of this board, I request you to ACT upon it.

Thanks

Hari Sampath

VV wrote:
“That’s your state of mind,and obviously you are being backed by some
powerful coterie”

This sum’s up your weak argument, you are acting like a complete fool.

Is that all you can say when you have clearly been presented with factual proof and you come out with preposterous theories oh man give your mouth a chance and your bum a rest you fool!

/m2379 ."So ... you first go ahead and prove that SB performs "miracles"....according to the law of the land, and laws of science...in other words...prove that SB is god ( we don't want absurd statements like " millions say so....)" You were believing everything couple of years back?Now you do not believe him?Tomorrow who know,what you will believe?Nah,i would not lay my bets on people like you,ROFL.My personal experience with Swami is my proof,my evidence.I am not trying to convince you or anybody else.All i am comparing my experience with that of alleged victims,for perception vary from people to people.Even if one of them can see and understand what i am trying convey,i have paid back the debt to Swami.For a Kshatria its important when one has saved his life,his entire family is obligated to them.

Edited by author 06-22-2002 05:51 PM
Hari well done you have killed him, VV give it a rest your looking like a fool !

“I can hardly see any remote connection to what Sai Baba says or
does , to Lord Sri Krishna.... SB is a mere liar and a fraud....
and Lord Sri Krishna was the Lord Almighty in Human form... a
Purna Avatar”

Well done this sums it up in a nutshell, VV give it a rest ur looking like a complete and utter twat.

If not for me for your guru and his reputation you twat

/m2380 ,"we can quite see that you are unable to explain why the SC gave such a verdict"i am not the one here judging or being judged,ROFL.All i asked for proof of your source.Do i need to agree with Swami for all he preaches,ROFL,by now i would heading to the Himalayas?Just because you dont like Swami,everything and anything from Swami,is debaucherous,lies,wicked,evil.Thats your state of mind,and obviously you are being backed by some powerful coterie.

You dont fool me fellow,the spin that you are giving will ultimately lead you to the orbits of Sun and Moon,who knows,after all you are an amsa of Krishna too,ROFL,HARI?Narayana Narayana Narayana.....

Edited by author 06-22-2002 05:40 PM
>>wild unproved allegations,which the Supreme Court Of India,politely told you to vacate.Despite the highest court in the land turning you down<<

VV Reddy... I recommend that you take a course in English. The Supreme Court HAS NOT TURNED ME DOWN. ( by the way, the Supreme court only has to deal with law and evidence, and has no need to be "polite" to citizens of India)

They have accepted, acknowledged and heard the complaint about Sai Baba, and even recommended a specific course of action under a specific Legal article in a specific court. This is conclusive proof that the Highest court in India HAS SEEN MERIT in the case.

If you choose to pretend to ignore it, its your choice... but no one else is fooled.... we can quite see that you are unable to explain why the SC gave such a verdict, and are desperately trying to put your own spin on it , which fools no one.

Hari Sampath

Edited by author 06-22-2002 05:34 PM
>>>you have been given yet another oppurtunity as per the law of the land,go ahead,prove it<<<

So ... you first go ahead and prove that SB performs "miracles"....according to the law of the land, and laws of science...in other words...prove that SB is god ( we don't want absurd statements like " millions say so....)


But I have proved conclusively that SB cheats on "miracles".... see the new videos with the cheat SB crushing vibuthi tablets... for all to see..
Hari Sampath

To VV Reddy Ref 2376 :

So what is your proof that "your experience" with Sai Baba really happened and he cured you. Since you base your entire theory that SB is innocent on your personal experience... where is the proof ??

If I am "relying" on stories, Icons etc .... about Lord Sri Krishna ... so is SB !!! So.. you don't believe SB ?? LOL :-) He quotes extensively from Vyasa's Mahabharatha and the Bhagavatham .... you don't believe SB then,.... ok... say it openly.

Hari Sampath

Quoting Hari Sampath"So, if SB's statements seem like a lie, sound like a lie, and can be proved to be a lie... it's probably a lie "please note the 'BIG PRETTY IF';you have been given yet another oppurtunity as per the law of the land,go ahead,prove it?

/m2373 ,"This is supposed to indicate that the Lord will even cleverly circumvent the letter of the spiritual law to protect the spirit of the spiritual Law"and how may i ask you the source is authentic?(Moon and Sun coming to Shri Krishna and talking to him,ROFL),that you so authoritatively quote from?Who recorded this piece of information?Which language it was originally recorded?Who printed and published it?So,the Lord Krishna,whom you have never seen,spoken,or heard,but by reading material,photographs of krishna,idols and icons of Krishna,you have formed your thought process.Based on such a flimsy background,do you expect anyone will denounce their own experience?Have you been physically handled by Sathya Sai Baba?All your basis of your appeal,is that of hearsay(mischeivous students in Prashanthi Nilayam,while they are still living there),wild unproved allegations,which the Supreme Court Of India,politely told you to vacate.Despite the highest court in the land turning you down,you and others are going on on on on on......ROFL.Give us all a break.

>>The discourses have been told by Swami on diffrent occassions,yet each one of us want to hold what is convenient for him or her.Why<<

The argument doesn't hold good when it can be shown to be a factual lie in the face of recorded facts.

I am willing to accept even "spiritual explanations"... if any is offered, after due analyses.

But on the face of facts...If it looks like a duck, squaks like a duck, and walks like a duck...it's probably a duck :-)

So, if SB's statements seem like a lie, sound like a lie, and can be proved to be a lie... it's probably a lie :-)

Hari Sampath

For argument sake:
Quoting Swami from his discourse on May 25th 2002,"The Buddha too made similar effort to find the source of happiness. He searched for God everywhere, and at last found that God was within him. He realized that he himself was an embodiment of Ananda (Bliss)."

We have other quotes in the forum from many people like Andries,Hari,...

The situation is,i am believing one of the recent quotes of Swami as early as May 25th 2002,whereas someone else is wanting to believe and give ALL the importance of another discourse,with some valid point.

The discourses have been told by Swami on diffrent occassions,yet each one of us want to hold what is convenient for him or her.Why?

VV Reddy - can we ask you to elaborate more on your experience? Like who else was there at the time, what exactly did he do, was either of you sexually aroused or was it an entirely spiritual experience, did you pass out, has it been the most pleasarable experience you have ever had....Also, were you cured right away or was it gradual? Were you asked to apply the vibuthi yourself subsequently?

If you would rather not reply with specifics, it's okay.

Thank you Andries.Which religion do you believe?Who is your personal god?How do you build your faith on him/her?Please dont blame Swami,lets leave him out of this,just for the moment.Hope you would reply.Thanks once again.

Quoting Hari Sampath"Hear the audio tapes of what Sai Baba himself says.... check the real facts, and then come to this board"first and foremost you have no right to tell me whether i should be in this board.Thats not your job.I have asked twice to Anthony Thomas,i trust him to be a gentleman,and he will directly tell me,if he does not want me here.

As far as audio tapes are concerned,i have plenty of them.I know Swami has deliberately told sometimes which are in total variations of real time situation.Krishna has done similar things and there is for everyone to see,and i can start an entire debate on it.This is not the forum for it.Instead of names dropping to me,why did you not go directly to Swami,and confront him with all your wild pre conceived and ill informed knowledge.After all Chakravarthi garu OWES you an OBLIGATION,ROFL.

Edited by author 06-22-2002 04:04 PM
/m2368 Go ahead but if it is too personal you will have to write me an email.

Edited by author 06-22-2002 04:00 PM
Quoting Andries"Well, if only one of the testimonie of sexual abuse is true then SSB is a criminal."thats a pretty BIG IF,?What IF,he is not a criminal?Andreis,may i ask you a personal question?

To VV Reddy :

>>Its simply amazing,that hearsay,wild unproved allegations,error in printed material<<

Hear the audio tapes of what Sai Baba himself says.... check the real facts, and then come to this board

V.V. Reddy,

V.V. Reddy wrote:
>>how do you know one is a criminal?<<

Well, if only one of the testimonie of sexual abuse is true then SSB is a criminal.

>>How can one pre judge a person without going thru the due process of discovery,evidence,verdict?<<

I am afraid that is not only hearsay. See /m2139 But I agree that is difficult to distinguish calumny from truth.

Kind regards, Andries

>>Yes, Mr. Reddy, this seems to be a common misperception of many of the anti-side...this misconception about SAi's proclaimed divinity.<<

To Beth:

There is no confusion at all about SB's "proclaimed divinity".

He says " If someone asks you where is god, ask them to go to Puttaparthi"

"I am Krishna and Rama and father of Jesus"

Beth..... SB doesn't say that you or me is all this... he says that "he is all this".

SB devotees hide behind this so called spiritual truth of "all is god" when confronted by facts that show that SB is NOT an avatar... sb himself hides behind this.

SB is claiming he is an "avatar".

SB has been proved to be a cheat, a liar and a molestor.

The Spiritual concept that "all is God".. doesn't answer the fact that SB is a fake, nor can it be an excuse ( would you accept if I said that Hitler was god, because all is God ?"

Hari Sampath

Quoting Andries"Do you know the 'cat guru' from the Panchatantra? SSB reminds me a bit of him."where did you learn about the Panchantantra?How did you form your opinion about cat guru?Do you know why Panchatantra Tales are taught to kids especially Hindu?Do you know whether these tales are actual recorded facts or stories to inculcate higher ideals in ones life?Do you know whether Panchatantra Tales are myth or real life stories?Please,stop it.Its absurd.Next you probably will link Swami to Ravana in your wild state of mind,my gosh,get real.

Quoting Andries"If a criminal is nice to me ..."how do you know one is a criminal?How can one pre judge a person without going thru the due process of discovery,evidence,verdict?Its simply amazing,that hearsay,wild unproved allegations,error in printed material,can be taken as authority to judge a person and condemn him to be anti-christ.I mean how foolish can one become?

<<<If for a moment you think Swami is "THE GOD"then you have not understood the message,teachings of Swami as well as the teachings of whichever religious fold you belong to.>>>

Yes, Mr. Reddy, this seems to be a common misperception of many of the anti-side...this misconception about SAi's proclaimed divinity.

Dear Blown Out --

I totally agree ( with your latest posting ).

However, this subject seems to bring up strong emotions in some people...and a need to make the 'other side' feel stupid/or naive for their beliefs.

And then , when a normaly kind and tolerant soul is insulted and attacked with no real provacation, then that sometimes leads to a series of angry words being bantered back and forth ..until, hopefully, they can find some understanding between them.

People are people, but I've often said that I don't understand why SAi Baba cannot be discussed with detachment... I don't think *he* is important at all...nor is his form. TRUTH and KINDNESS and TOLERANCE are important. This man SB does not need to be defended, But TRUTH needs to be defended and upheld. And there has to be an opening to get to the truth.

I think there are a lot of people here fighting for truth ( their own perception of truth).

>> suppose VVReddy and Hari could open their own board for interaction between them!! Why not? I doubt whther many others are reading the disagreements you have<<

I beg to differ with respect, Anthony... these are NOT differences between V Reddy and myself. I am demonstrating with known facts, yet another instance of Sai Baba lying... and I am sure that this is within the topic of this board, and I am sure that all readers take note of the valid points I have made.

Thank you,

Hari Sampath

V.V. Reddy,

V.V. Reddy wrote:
>>what is important to me is my personal experience with Swami.<<

Yes, I had good experiences in the ashram too although I am not sure whether they are related to SSB's influence. But your experience may be only side of the coin. If a criminal is nice to me and if that is the only experience with him that I have with him then it means that he has some good traits too or that it was just calculating behaviour when he was nice to me.

It is unreasonable to rely only on your own experience with somebody.

My bad experience with SSB started when it began to dawn on me that the 'calumny' was the truth after all.

Do you know the 'cat guru' from the Panchatantra? SSB reminds me a bit of him.

>>I do not get easily swayed from reading material,hearsay,wild unproved allegations,by <<

Please do take your time to study all the material about SSB and try to check whether it is well documented and authentic.

Andries K.D.

Anthony Thomas that was a good one,i deserved it.ROFL

/m2352 ,there is only vibes of god everywhere all the time from time immemorial.Swami is only a form,trying to inculcate higher ideals in life.If for a moment you think Swami is "THE GOD"then you have not understood the message,teachings of Swami as well as the teachings of whichever religious fold you belong to.

I suppose VVReddy and Hari could open their own board for interaction between them!! Why not? I doubt whther many others are reading the disagreements you have.

Quoting Hari Sampath"these are FACTS, and established..."established by whom?Printed Material?Word Of Mouth?ROFL,ROFL,ROFL.A printer can make mistake.A story told can be misunderstood and not comprhended properly.There maybe exagerations also.One should value his or her own experience with the Lord.There is nothing else in between.One should have unshakeable faith in whatever circumstances one is subjected to.People will try to test you,test your faith,you should know what is the truth and what is not?Despite showing the way out from the Supreme Court Of India,if you still did not get the message,you are more than welcome to appeal in any court of Law.The energy that you waste,is truly a pity.A good heart and a good brain is hard to come these days,America is lucky to have you Hari.

<<Beth re 2283
If I should allow pro sb comments, how come it is OK if boards that are pro sb don't allow comments against him? or don't they dare to hear the other side?>>

They don't dare to hear the other side.

>>>You are giving weak excuses for your case to be dismissed from the Supreme Court of India.What have you done after that rebuttal?Nothing.Have gone to the High Court?ROFL ROFL.<<<

Where did I give "weak excuses" ????? Did you try to address the points and facts I presented about why the Supreme court asked me to go to the High court ?? I have even explained why I am waiting to go to the High court. I think I have illustrated the true picture for all sane persons to see ( that doesn't of course include you).

AND, you will hear about the High Court proceedings as well, when I do it.

Hari Sampath

V.V. Reddy is polluting this board, not only with all his ravings, but by always repeating and spelling out the Name, which you said somewhere has lots of power. This brings the quality of the board way down. Maybe it's my imagination, but the board seems to be full of 'sai vibes.' I know you want to be fair, but this Mr. Reddy is taking advantage of your good will and making it unpleasant for the rest of us. Maybe there's nothing you can do about it though.

/m2347 There wasn't even a proper air raid only one single, lone Japanese bomber.

>>I said perception vary from people to people.So when i try to establish something similar,why are you spouting venom upon me?After all can you deny these guys are not Brahmins.<<

There is no question of "perception" when it comes to recorded FACT and history.

All the facts I have reported and proved, is NOT perception, it does not depend on my interpretation or yours... these are FACTS, and established....and if Sai Baba says some nonsense completely in contradiction to what happened... then it is easy to see what is happening.

If Sai Baba says, for example ..." In 1949, when Washington was the President of the United States, he came to Swami with a request..."... if such a statement is made, then certainly there is no question of perception is involved here.... plain and simple, Sai Baba is lying, or a mad lunatic, or both, because history records that Washington was NOT the President of USA in 1949. Similarily, when we can PROVE that Sai Baba is deliberately lying , by giving concrete instances and facts, and we back it up with authentic references and recorded events ( according to Sai Baba's own words, like for example the Avatart day Oct 20, 1940, Subbama's death etc)... there is no question of any "perception" or "opinion"... just plain recorded facts, contradicting Sai Baba's version and showing SB to be a liar.

Try addressing the facts I have presented.

Don't ramble meaninglessly.

Hari Sampath

Quoting Hari Sampath"Sai Baba's entire scam was built upon so called "personal experiences" recorded in print, and published in books, which innocent followers took to be the absolute truth, and believed, and passed the word onto others." can i not say the same things to you regarding wild unproved allegations.Your scam of expose is totally based on unproven hearsay?.You are giving weak excuses for your case to be dismissed from the Supreme Court of India.What have you done after that rebuttal?Nothing.Have gone to the High Court?ROFL ROFL.

Quoting Andries"V.V. Reddy, why don't you give a detailed rejoinder to SSB's contradictory statements instead of writing that it is all a conspiracy by a certain group?"what is important to me is my personal experience with Swami.I do not get easily swayed from reading material,hearsay,wild unproved allegations,by Hari,VKN,Kasturi,......mine is real time live personal one to one with Swami.I do not go by patterns,or herd mentality.God has given all of us the power to think,and i am going by that,not by mischeivous students in Prashanthi Nilayam,some foreigner who is incapable to mesh in our ways of life,nor believe people with the prompting of jealous gurus and diabolical political interest groups.

>>>So,the printed material is 'ULTIMATE' evidence,ROFL.What if tomorrow,the publisher sends a note saying there 'printers error',ROFL,who knows it can happen,can it not?

So X has told Y,and Y has told Z,.....and so on.What if X had lied?Should one throw away his own personal experience and hold what some one 'says'?<<<

Sai Baba's entire scam was built upon so called "personal experiences" recorded in print, and published in books, which innocent followers took to be the absolute truth, and believed, and passed the word onto others.

If Prof Kasturi's authorised biography of Sai Baba where we can all clearly see when Subamma died, and prove Sai Baba's absurd contradictions, is not believable for you, why the heck should we believe your so called "personal experiences"... after all you are just an anonymous character on the internet , "claiming" your experiences disprove that Sai Baba has not molested anyone.

Answer to the point instead of rambling endlessly.

It can be PROVED that Subbamma was alive in 1950, and died in that year, by recorded fact.

It can be proved that Sai Baba said inn a public speech in 1999 ,that he was in Madras when Subbamma died, and that there were air raids, bombings and air raid sirens when he was there in Madras during Subbamma's death.

It can be proved that all these air raids, bombings , air raid sirens took place in 1942, 8 YEARS BEFORE Subbamma died, by acounts of the World war history in India.

What do you say to all this ??

Hari Sampath

Edited by author 06-22-2002 03:02 PM
Hari Sampath i established a similar pattern that you guys are talking about Swami,did i say you are gutter level.?I said perception vary from people to people.So when i try to establish something similar,why are you spouting venom upon me?After all can you deny these guys are not Brahmins.

Edited by author 06-22-2002 02:59 PM
So,the printed material is 'ULTIMATE' evidence,ROFL.What if tomorrow,the publisher sends a note saying there 'printers error',ROFL,who knows it can happen,can it not?

So X has told Y,and Y has told Z,.....and so on.What if X had lied?Should one throw away his own personal experience and hold what some one 'says'?

Has it been verified?I mean wild'allegations'?

If it has been verified,who has verified it?

Can these people not 'exagerate'?

How many of you are actual alleged victims here posting or have had similar experience like mine?

Above all,Jesus Christ came and preached,and he died.Despite his coming,his teachings,his miracles,his cures,his calling out at the time of his death,'Father,why have you forsaken me'?-so he has a father and mother,but chose to call out his father?has the world changed its wayward ways.Since West is predominantly followers of Jesus Christ(1)Are there no raping?(2)Are there no looting and arson?(3)Are no injustices and fraud committed?(4)Are there people fornicating,only after holy matrimony?.........Please be practical,realise that these are difficult times.Everyplace has its own unique beauty and culture,and beliefs systems.All of us are children of god.There is nothing but god.What else is there?

/m2339
Thanks Hari that was a really good one. Unfortunately I can't check it because I have given away most of my SSB books to the library of my former group.

But I find a quote from the SSB's 1947 letter to his older brother Seshamaraju appropriate here >>Truth will certainly triumph some day. Untruth can never win. Untruth may appear to overpower Truth, but its victory will fade awy and Truth will establish itself. <<

V.V. Reddy, why don't you give a detailed rejoinder to SSB's contradictory statements instead of writing that it is all a conspiracy by a certain group?

>>>Prof Kasturi,V.K.Narasimhan,Hari Sampath,.....see a distinct pattern of Judases from a 'particular'community.I am not deliberating mentioning the caste,but a definite pattern is emerging,hmmmm<<<<

WHAT !!! Kasturi and Narasimhan were Judases ??? "Hari Sampath a Judas", I can understand, because that's what Sai baba and all SB devotees call me anyway.. but poor Kasturi and Narasimhan ?? And again you link it to "caste"... what a dreadfully pathetic creature you are !!

Try answering ONE valid point I have raised.... and if you cannot , we all understand, but this is what I meant when I said "stooping to gutter level", referring to caste, etc.

Slimey character.

Hari Sampath

Re.. 2334
  
 Reddy, Stop displaying your ignorance so blatantly.
 You can check the Internet for reliable sources on
 South Asian History. You have demonstrated your ability
 to believe and swallow any bullshit that someone whom
 you respect throws at you. That kind of makes one
 suspicious of your judgement and mental ability.
 
 (r*r)+(r*r)+ ... r terms ;-)

Edited by author 06-22-2002 02:28 PM

/m2434 V.V.Reddy:

Srila Prabhupada never had sex with his disciples, because he knew the correct standard of the guru-disciple relationship.

Do you even know the law of disciplic succession? The disciples are like children to the guru. In SB's case, he is therefore incestuous, which makes him even more sicker than previously thought.

BTW, aren't you the one who was accused recently of having sex with SB?

BTW again, we love cherish and respect Jesus Christ. :) At least he didn't have sex at all, nevermind with his disciples.

Your pervert guru is a sicko. Wake up to the fact.

Sanjay

I think moonshines post /m2078 was very interesting,hmmmm.

Quoting Andries"Let's now compare SSB's discourse on 18 October 1999 according to Brian Steel's website
>>Later, one day I had to go to Chennai in a hurry as desired by some devotees. I had to stay there for ten days. It was the war period. Once in every hour there used to be air-raid siren. The streets would become empty with that warning. Swami could not return to Puttaparthi. <<"what exactly are you trying to convey?Are trying to tell Swami is exagerating?Do bear with me?You all are way to ahead,i need to catch up to your steam.

Quoting Hari Sampath"Does this mean that since you are unable to accommodate contrary views, you lack character ?? "there you go again,the typical trait of yours and where you come from.You guys can never think straigt,can you?,must be some genetic mutation,who knows?

Quoting Hari Sampath"Calcutta and Malaysia !!! LOL !! This is hilarious !! Where was Calcutta and Malaysia 2000 years back !!!" what do you mean by this statement?I think they are still here as it was 2000 years back.I dont understand you?

Edited by author 06-22-2002 02:00 PM
Regarding SSB's statement that he had to wait to visit Subamma because of an air raid on Madras (now Chennai)

from SAPRA ARTICLE NEED TO DEVELOP NUCLEAR WEAPONS Published in the SAPRA INDIA Bulletin of October-November 1997

>>When a lone Japanese Bomber in World War II dropped a single bomb on Madras, the entire administration was shifted to Ooty.<<

Unfortunately no date is mentioned. However it perfectly confirms Hari's mother's story that there had been an evacuation but no personal injuries and very little material damage.

Let's now compare SSB's discourse on 18 October 1999 according to Brian Steel's website
>>Later, one day I had to go to Chennai in a hurry as desired by some devotees. I had to stay there for ten days. It was the war period. Once in every hour there used to be air-raid siren. The streets would become empty with that warning. Swami could not return to Puttaparthi. <<

This sounds like an extreme exaggeration of the situation even when taking into account that SSB or his devotees may have been infected by the general panick. Of course unnecessary panick would be very non-omniscient but SSB may have known and had not been able to convince his devotees that their fear was unnecessary.

>>You are indeed a good person.Thank you,for accomadating my views despite your contrary views of Swami,that shows character.<<

Does this mean that since you are unable to accommodate contrary views, you lack character ?? :-)

Hari Sampath

>>>Hari Sampath,thank you for giving me the addresses,i will try to obtain and verify it.But let me also,do some research here and see what resources are there,for all you know,the bookstore in Puttaparthi may have it.<<

You may try at the Sai Towers also, and if necessary, let me know, I shall arrange a private interview for you with Sai Baba, and you can ask him directly what he said about Jesus Christ. If you are serious, let me know, and I shall speak to Mr Chakravarthi, who is the Ashram Secretary, very close to Sai Baba, and in daily personal contact with Sai Baba. You may even refer my name to him, of course he knows perfectly well that I am active on the Sai Baba expose, but he would oblige me.

Hari Sampath

Quoting Anthony Thomas"To be honest, with all your good intent to protect your master (does he need protection, do you think!) there is no-one here you can sway with your pro-sb messages. I think we are all way past any doubts whatsover about this guy, many of us having been aware of his antics and having examined this are for many years."good,keep it up.My intention was to share my experiance,which i am doing,the way i know how to do it,You are indeed a good person.Thank you,for accomadating my views despite your contrary views of Swami,that shows character.

Hari Sampath,thank you for giving me the addresses,i will try to obtain and verify it.But let me also,do some research here and see what resources are there,for all you know,the bookstore in Puttaparthi may have it.But its interesting what you write.At no point of time i have said i read all the books of Swami.My only experiance of curing me is far more important to me,and since there are many around the world who have had similar experiances like mine,but their perception of it varies widely,which i am trying to focus on a common ground.

I truly am not interested in knowing anything else,but this much i can say with certainty,despite the fact that you have chosen to do what you want to do,i can assure you we will do everything under our power to protect Swami,not that he needs us,he knows how to care of himself and others as well.

Beth re 2283
If I should allow pro sb comments, how come it is OK if boards that are pro sb don't allow comments against him? or don't they dare to hear the other side?


Truelight007. I really must make myself clearer. I didn't for onbe moment infer that alternative medicine would handle his condition. I was commenting on the fact that different parts of the body handle other parts conditions. I said this because he was being derided at permitting genitals rto be handled fora digective problem.

To VV Reddy. To be honest, with all your good intent to protect your master (does he need protection, do you think!) there is no-one here you can sway with your pro-sb messages. I think we are all way past any doubts whatsover about this guy, many of us having been aware of his antics and having examined this are for many years.

One message from Jag has been deleted. Please refrain from such language immediately.

Everyone is an adult here and despite all the variety of religions and beliefs among us, can we all not remember that we are capable of love and tolerance. Surely that is a goal of enlightenment.

>>>But still,i would appreciate if you could give me a link or tell me which book you are referring to,as i said earlier,you do have a habit of quoting out of context,and put words into peoples mouth,and twist statements just to make the other person look small.<<<

Why don't you ask ANY Sai Baba devotee about what Sai Baba has said about the post crucifion life of Jesus ?? Where did I quote anything out of context ? I had NEVER done so, whatever I say, I would always be able to back it up with authentic references. I never put words into your mouth, it was YOU who said that "Jesus died on the cross", and so I pointed out that is NOT what Sai Baba says, and recommended that you have more faith in your "god".

AND I have proved it too..

>>This is what i meant people from your clan do,nothing personal<<

You just cannot handle valid relevant points and debate, you run away hiding or resort to referring to "my caste and clan", and making sweeping comments. In any case my "caste" which is "brahmin" as you consistently point out, are a clan of "Truth speaking people, with knowledge of Brahman"... and not those who twist words or anything else.... whatever it is, my "caste" or "your caste" is irrelevant to this debate, try to address issues that are relevant to Sai Baba.

Hari Sampath

Anthony, enough is enough. I think we have indulged this persona Jag and other bad mouthing too long.

Please take a long hard look a couple of prior posts.(jag in particular.)

They are in the worse taste.

I said I was a follower of Sai - but I am taken back by the insensitivity in these writings.

I won't be posting again.

it is just too dirty. :(

very dirty and utterly unnecesary.

Sai Baba on Jesus Christ, from interview to Peggy Mason ( Published in several books)

**************************************
The following quotes are taken from "Sathya Sai Baba-The Embodiment of Love"by Peggy Mason and Ron Laing.
Swami also said to questions posed by Janet Bock and reported in her book"The Jesus Mystery" that Jesus attained Christ Conciousness at the age of twenty-five in India, when he was able to proclaim "I and my Father are one". After experiencing this identity with the Father, says Baba, "He returned to his own country. He returned to Palestine through Tibet, Afghanistan, Persia and areas which are now embraced as part of the Soviet Union,and by the time he arrived in his native land, he was in his twenty ninth year..." (pg68)

"The name Jesus itself is not the original name. He was named ISA. In theTibetan manuscript at the monastery where ISA spent some years the name is written as ISSA. The name ISA means the Lord of all living beings". I-SAor S-AI both means Ishvara, the Eternal Absolute..."(pg66)

*In a very sacred private interview with Baba, Peggy asked "Swami, there is something I've wanted to know for a long time. Did thephysical body of Jesus recover in the tomb? I mean it wasn't a materialised body of spirit...?"

Swami replied,"No-the physical body. No spirit- materialised body. The physical".

"Ah!" I said. "Then, did he journey to the East, continuing his mission to Kashmir?"

"Yes- and he also travelled to Calcutta, and Malaysia."

"Then is it the body of Jesus which was buried in the Rozabal Shrine at Srinagar in Kashmir?"

Swami nodded, and said,"Yes", so simply,with an upturned inflexion in hisvoice,as if waiting for the next question, his eyes never moving from mine, with such gentleness".* (n.b. Peggy Mason had written a whole chapter on the research that went into the above question)

*******************************************8

Calcutta and Malaysia !!! LOL !! This is hilarious !! Where was Calcutta and Malaysia 2000 years back !!!

Hari Sampath

Edited by author 06-22-2002 01:12 PM
Quoting Hari Sampath"Read "Swami's DIScurses" of several decades, !! "as far i know Swami gives Discourses,if a pun was intended,ROFL,shows your mental thinking and perception.But still,i would appreciate if you could give me a link or tell me which book you are referring to,as i said earlier,you do have a habit of quoting out of context,and put words into peoples mouth,and twist statements just to make the other person look small.This is what i meant people from your clan do,nothing personal.My Finance Manager,is a Telegu Brahmin,and i do not know what would happen if he were to leave.My love and respect of all communities is intact despite provocations.

Richard Bock even made a movie on Sai Baba's advice, and all of Sai Baba's sayings on Jesus living in Kashmir are there.

For starters, you could try

Bock, R., Christ In Kashmir: The Hidden Years, (videotape) (available through Sathya Sai Book Centre PO Box 278, Tustin Ca. 92681-0278 USA; or through Pacific Spirit PO Box 14747, Portland Oregon 97214 USA.

Hari Sampath

>>>Jesus Christ DID NOT die on the Cross.... he lived for many years after that, even SB says that !! "really,can you give me a link or tell me where i can find such statements,because you quote things out of context to suit your needs<<<

Read "Swami's DIScurses" of several decades, !! Every Sai baba devotee knows this , what Sai Baba has said about Jesus not having died on the cross, traveling through Persia, Russia, Kashmir etc, and how he lived in the Homalayas . What a poor example of a Sai Baba devotee you are.... you should be ashamed. When I was a devotee, I could quote ( even now) every single bit of important information that Sai Baba ever gave anywhere, as I held them to be the Holy Gospel and the Vedic Word. You need to grow as a SB devotee, ( to become eligible for becoming an ex-devotee :-) LOL !

Hari Sampath

Quoting Hari Sampath"If this is true, then your ignorance is even more pathetic "so you are the Judge,Executioner,and the Jury,ROFL ROFL,MAD BOY,go call your mom probably you yearn to meet her after all these years in self-exile,ROFL ROFL.

Andries,if you are serious we can work things out.But please decide and let me know in this forum.

>>."how do you know whether i have travelled to USA,UK,Germany,France,Australia,New Zealand,Singapore,Malaysia,Indonesia,Moscow, or not?<<

If this is true, then your ignorance is even more pathetic !!

Hari Sampath

Quoting Hari Sampath"and in any case you don't seem to have faith in "your god's" words !! Jesus Christ DID NOT die on the Cross.... he lived for many years after that, even SB says that !! "really,can you give me a link or tell me where i can find such statements,because you quote things out of context to suit your needs,but i am willing to give you a patient hearing,ROFL ROFL.

Edited by author 06-22-2002 12:52 PM
Quoting Hari Sampath"So, VV Reddy, travel out beyond your small well, live in other parts of the world before commenting . You neither know enough about India, nor do you know about the West."how do you know whether i have travelled to USA,UK,Germany,France,Australia,New Zealand,Singapore,Malaysia,Indonesia,Moscow, or not?Please for Krishnas sake dont assume too much.Its a habit for you,ROFL ROFL.

>>>Yawn...keep dreaming,ROFL ROFL.The Godman is GOD.Looks like JUDAS is reborn.Jesus Christ was sacrificed in the CROSS,and now SATHYA SAI BABA is attempted.We will protect him and shield,come what may,we will not let him die like Jesus Christ.<<<

wee wee ready :-) You better answer or counter the points I raised instead of ROFLing all the time...and in any case you don't seem to have faith in "your god's" words !! Jesus Christ DID NOT die on the Cross.... he lived for many years after that, even SB says that !! LOL :-)

Hari Sampath

Edited by author 06-22-2002 12:26 PM
V.V. Reddy,

V.V. Reddy wrote:
>>It is a pity Andries that you could lift the telephone and talk to Swami if you had wished,look where you have been reduced?Sometimes fate plays cruel tricks on people.<<

If you could bring me into personal contact with SSB then I would be very happy. I was never granted an interview. I have some questions for him and would like to have a word with him. Please advise.

Oh, now I remember about 2 years ago I met an Indian swami from a local Ramakrishna math who had a family member who was a magician. This family member went to SSB's ashram and told SSB to stop cheating people. Of course it didn't impress SSB.

So on second thoughts I am afraid that my question and talk with SSB will not impress him but I could give it a try.


Thanks andrieskd@yahooo.com

>>>Can America boast of a woman President?Can America boast of a black american as President?<<<

This shows what knowledge( or lack of), VV Reddy has about the West. America will not elect a "Black President", just for the token purpose of proving a point. If and When an African American Presidential candidate is nominated by the Republican or Democratic parties in the Primaries, based on merit, the American people will have no problems with voting him on merit.

While there had been racism in the past , in USA, I can tell you for sure there is NO PLACE on earth that is tolerant and genuinely appreciative of various cultures like the US. The very fact that some of the top sporting Icons of the US like Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods etc are all African American, with a huge fan following should tell you that USA really has no race prejudices as a nation. The great national following that Movie Stars like Denzel Washington, Samuel Jackson etc have, and the recent Oscar awards too testifies to this. ( tell me how many Black people have been knighted ??)

Hundreds of thousands of technology professionals from all parts of the world, particulary India, are welcomed for their skills and live as one in American society, some of the Top American enterprises of the last decade had been Indian peoples' drive, like Hotmail and Sun Microsystems.

This is impossible anywhere else in the world.

An American or British national cannot go to India and criticize anything Indian or its leaders . Immediately he/she will be either attacked, killed, or at least harrassed by the Govt , as was seen recently when the Govt of India hauled up Alex Perry of TIME magazine under false charges for criticizing Vajpayee.

On the other hand, I am not even a US citizen, but evebn after Sep 11, I was openly criticizing American foreign policy, and its bombing of Hiroshima etc. I am not attacked ! Others may disagree with me, in fact several Americans agreed with me, the only violent and "traitor" accusations I got were from Indians and other non Americans.

So, VV Reddy, travel out beyond your small well, live in other parts of the world before commenting . You neither know enough about India, nor do you know about the West.

Thanks,

Hari Sampath

I wish to make a very important point here , regarding the Sai Baba expose, the case etc. There has been much misunderstanding of the judicial verdict, what it means to the Sai Baba matter etc, and SB devotees had been loosely and terribly inaccurately making claims that the "Courts had thrown out the case as no merits" etc.

Please refer to this official website of the Indian constitution dealing with this.

http://alfa.nic.in/const/p03.html

Part III deals with Fundamental rights and Article 32 deals with Fundamental rights protection by Supreme court of India.

It was under Article 32 that I approached the Supreme court, the article says :

"FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS
Right to Constitutional Remedies

32. Remedies for enforcement of rights conferred by this Part.-
(1) The right to move the Supreme Court by appropriate proceedings for the enforcement of the rights conferred by this Part is guaranteed.

(2) The Supreme Court shall have power to issue directions or orders or writs, including writs in the nature of habeas corpus, mandamus, prohibition, quo warranto and certiorari, whichever may be appropriate, for the enforcement of any of

(3) Without prejudice to the powers conferred on the Supreme Court by clauses (1) and (2), Parliament may by law empower any other court to exercise within the local limits of its jurisdiction all or any of the powers exercisable by the Supreme Court under clause (2).

(4) The right guaranteed by this article shall not be suspended except as otherwise provided for by this Constition. "

Now, the Supreme court told my attorneys to go to a High court under Article 226, and gave me a judgement to that effect. This has NO BEARING on the merits of the case. In fact this proves that the Supreme court thinks there is merit in this case, otherwise the court would have simply dismissed it as "without merit"... which they DID NOT do.

Article 226 in Par VI says :

"PART VI
THE STATES
Chapter V.-The High Courts in the States
[226. Power of High Courts to issue certain writs.-
(1) Notwithstanding anything in article 32.Every High Court shall have power, throughout the territories in relation to which it exercises jurisdiction, to issue to any person or authority, including in appropriate cases, any Government, within those territories directions, orders or writs, including writs in the nature of habeas corpus, mandamus, prohibition, quo warranto and certiorari, or any of them, for the enforcement of any of the rights conferred by Part III and for any other purpose "

As can be CLEARLY SEEN, Article 226 serves EXACTLY the same purpose as Article 32, and for the same protection of fundamental rights done by Art 32, and even is mentioned as such, only thing is the High court does it, instead of the Supreme court.

Now, since the rights protected ( and merits of the case) are exactly the same in both Supreme court and High court, and when the Supreme court has specifically asked me to approach High court under Article 226, what does it mean ? Obviously the Supreme court has no problems with the merits of the case ( which is same in High court). If the Supreme court saw any flaw in the case itself, how will they ever ask me to go to the High court under Article 226 ( which deals with the same rights and same purpose).

The Supreme court also knows that the High court ( which is lower in hierarchy) is bound by the Supreme court's verdict, so how will the SC give such an official recommendation and verdict to go to the HC if the merits were not there ??

The point is, I haven't gone to the High court yet, I can do so anytime, and I am gathering even more solid evidence to make absolutely sure SB doesn't get away.

Thank you,

Hari Sampath

It is a pity Andries that you could lift the telephone and talk to Swami if you had wished,look where you have been reduced?Sometimes fate plays cruel tricks on people.

Dear Mr Thomas,
              I found your comments somewhat strange and contradictory I am at a total lose to understand what you are trying to say.

From your previous post you make reference about the purpose of this board and what we should be discussing yet Mr VV is a completely pro and floods this discussion with his self-opinionated belief, which kills, of any waves of serious intellectual discussions.

So instead of deleting needless posts why don’t you take the right action on addressing your point to Mr VV.

As evidently from VV posts you will note he has not listened to your views and is ramberling on like a lunatic about his own so called experience and is desperately trying to defend his self proclaimed God man.

So if you need to take any action or need to explain the purpose of this discussion forum please address VV instead of telling us!

And if the rascal will not listen kick him out or shut up and let him flood this board with his tiresome crap!

V.V.Reddy is still in India and I take it he talks as if we are ALL in India.

Hari, I know India quite well - well enough to know you all have pride in caste, tribes, regions,areas, and pride in your gurus etc.

I feel most Westerners do not understand this important fact.

It is a bit like the scottish clans.

VV has certainly spoken out too much just read his quote:

 You all are endowed with god given talent of common sense.Is it possible that all politicians,all judges,all lawyers are so corrupt,that Swami has bought them all?Please ponder and think carefully.

VV get a brain any thing is possible in India, having VJPEABRAIN on your side any judge any court will be scared not only that but all the senior Judges are his devotees so get your flipping facts right before you talk rubbish you lunatic fool!

Your self proclaimed God man tells you not too look or faults in others, so why do you? And you must be his worst yet devotee you damming fool

Dear V.V. No one wants to mess with you - as you put it. It is just unusal to hear your tone. You sound, if I may say so, very upset.

But I want you to know we in the West are not upset with such allegations - all sorts of allegations are part of life in the world. We get use to hearing all sorts of threats and stuff, but we don't TAKE them seriously. We simply make up our own minds in our own way.


You must realise V.V. this is a global club - and the countries outside of India are very much more laid-back in attitude.

No offence meant.

I am a follower of Sai - I don't agree with Hari, but I think everyone has a right to their opinions.

But without emotion and agression.

That means the both of you.

You both want your heads knocked together to give you sense.
(nicely knocked together that is.)

>>Hari, many thanks for answering my question about the air raid that SSB spoke about. I still wonder a bit how the Japanese managed to do that.<<

The Allied forces had a Naval base( or a transit base, I am not sure) in the coastal city of Chennai , and the Japanese had some aircraft carrier presence in the Bay of Bengal,Indian Ocean ( they had also advanced to Burma, and to Kohima, in Northeast India). I am inclined to think this was in 1942( my Mom too thinks so). I dug up some references from Madras city journals and here is what I found.

>>>It was early 1942. World War II was on. Japanese joined the Axix. They bombed Kalaikonda near Kharaghpur about 100 Kilo meters from Jamshedpur. Employees of the factories in Jamshedpur got panicky and were sending their families home. I sent my wife and daughter to Madras where my father-in- was. He was employed in the Accountant General's Office and was living with his family in Chetpat. Afew months later Japan bombed Madras harbour. I was worried about the safety of my wife and daughter and was afraid that we may lose contact if bombing intensified and families scatter.<<

>>>During World War II, when Madras was bombed and Royapuram was classified as a
danger zone and people evacuated the city, he as a young Priest at that time <<<

>>The Japanese overran Burma, but were stopped in their tracks at Imphal and Kohima. A few stray bombs were dropped on Visakhapatnam and Madras when a Japanese carrier force made a foray into the Bay of Bengal, but that was the nearest India's people saw of the war. << ( Admiral Nadkarni)

So, it can be conclusively proved that Chennai was bombed, and it was probably in early 1942.

Thanks,

Hari Sampath

Quoting Andries"I still wonder a bit how the Japanese managed to do that."those monkeys Japanese bombed and killed Americans in Pearl Harbour,what was Chennai for them?Only when Americans bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki,did the Japanese realise the power of United States Of America,which will never take things lying down for the bombing of Pearl Harbour.More recently the power of Americans to find the tyrant OBL in Afghanistan,for the devastation of American property and lives,is again a glowing tribute that LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL,is well and alive.But i still maintain,Americans ought not to have arm twisted India to defend itself against terroist Pakis.

I am not part of the ashram staff,but let me put it this way,i am involved in a major way.Please dont ask me any further,at least for now.Quoting truelight"we are in the West where people have freedom of speech - and we like it that way."what do you mean by that?Do you for one moment think we in the East do not have freedom of speech?Hari Sampath is a classic example.He has been given full freedom of speech,his views were respected,the Supreme Court has adviced to him leave their jurisdiction as they did not find the Case strong enough for them to continue,so,how can you say such things about our Eastern ways of life.I think you are just messing with me,please dont play with my emotions.I am not one bit worried about anything.I could not have asked a better life for me.

In fact giving respect to Hari Sampath,Anthony Thomas has deleted my message pertaining my reference to Caste.In Bugwath Gita,Krishna talks extensively about the nature of human beings,and broadly termed them as Brahmanas,Kshatriyas,Vysyas,and Sudras.The Brahmanas nature is of intellectual,priestly,and mostly sacrificing human weaknesses for the welfare of other,human natures as mentioned above.

How in the world that i meant to use'gutter language and gutter mentality'is truly beyond me?And why would i want to discredit him?After all he is discrediting himself,he needs no one,ROFL.

To Truelight:

The tone of VV Reddy's message is crystal clear , in that he is certainly hinting at harm, no doubts. There is NO WAY the Govt of India can impound the passport of a citizen, unless someone has been convicted by a court of a first degree crime committed in India ( hardly the case with me). And also if impounding of the passport was what VV Reddy "meant", where is the question of "America protecting me" as America has nothing to do with decisions on my Indian passport !!. Meanwhile, can the passport of any Indian be impounded when there is no crime committed and just because " many Indians are offended" ?? What a joke. And VV Reddy posted these threats in two different messages spread a couple of days apart, and even after I specifically told him I don't care a damn about his "threats to get me killed", he went on to post "take the threats seriously", without mentioning his "passport story". It is only when Anthony warned him, he has come up with this "explanation".

By the way , sending a "supari" means as, VV Reddy posted, sending an agent of death ( in Indian terms ) :-)

Hari Sampath

V.V. most people reading this board will not know about caste - or your dharma.

Best to keep your comments global. :)

/m2285 /m2296 Hari, many thanks for answering my question about the air raid that SSB spoke about. I still wonder a bit how the Japanese managed to do that.

This message V.V. Reddy is rather medieval - a little, what should I say - '16th century' - here in the West, we are not like that. The Western world has to be more 'tolerant'
than that!


."all i said was"We know all about you,your visit to India will be your last,i gurantee you that"what i meant was,his passport will be impounded.Meaning he can stay only in India.At no point of time,have i threatened to get him killed.

V.V. :) - if you are Sai's devotee you should not even think of harming anyone. (I hope you will not say these things again.) :)

His imagination has got the better of him.Frankly,you do not know this breed,of people.I may sound callous,but i assure you,i know my people.

(Breed?) He is not a dog V.V...please - None of us are dogs, only people with different points of view. This is allowed in the West - if one is educated.

(Are you sure you do not work for the Ashram V.V,?)

Make no mistakes about that.Further i said"As for threatening,please take it serious,you have offended people in India.

(Indians should not be offended. (Only Sai Baba devotees there may be offended.) Right????

You will be paid back for the slur you have brought to this country.

(V.V. you do not live in a dictatorship culture...right - Indians are very tolerant people and nice too. :))

Dont think America will protect you"how can one know the tone or tenor and come to conclusion that i have sent out a 'Supari' for him?

American has not the slightest Interest in Sai Baba - most western people are of the Christain faith. We love Jesus -(some of the time.) :>>>>>



In my opinion,if you could delete Hari Sampath message /m2234 you would be doing me a very huge favour.In fact ,he is practically accused me of getting him killed,which is not true.I dont hire people to kill.I hire people for my business and productive life."

(Okay, Okay, we understand you.) :)

tat tar.

Edited by author 06-22-2002 10:59 AM
To Andries : ref 2285

>>Have there ever been air attackson Chennai/Madras. If so in Nov. 1945? Every hour?<<

Yes, there was an air raid in Chennai ( Madras then), but I am not too sure about the Nov 1945. I checked with my Mother, and she says the city was evacuated twice between 1942 and 1944, and after the second evacuation, there was an air raid, but with very limited damage to property , with no human loss or injuries.

Hari Sampath

V.V. I don't think Sai will mind your posting here. He doesn't care about such things. I have posted on and off for ages and ages - but he never seems at all worried about it.

Don't worry about H.S. 'live and let live' - (I assure you Sai is not worried about such matters --- and neither should you be.) :)

People all have their own view of Sai - and if you or others are threatening towards the anti-side, then you will be seen as a cult.

Do you want to be seen in that light?

Most devotees, and/or followers are not worried. :)

Why are you so worried.

Is it your ego - or are you part of the ashram staff.

You see, V.V. we are in the West where people have freedom of speech - and we like it that way.


People in the West make up their own minds based on their own opinions, and that is as it should be.

We are not clones.

Dear Andries,

India was part of the British Empire and as such - subject to the laws and conditions of the mother country. Indian soldiers etc. were fighting in the war along side the British/Australians,/N.Z./others - all participated in safe guarding the territories. (One way or another.) I think you forget that India was very much part of Britain at the time of the second world war as was Ceylon. (Now Sri Lanka.)
I was not born at that time, and I know you too, are very young - to young to understand the Empire. :)

Edited by author 06-22-2002 10:08 AM
Anthony Thomas,Quoting Hari Sampath"Even now, I am responding only to his threats to get me killed, which as everyone can see , exposes him for what he really is."all i said was"We know all about you,your visit to India will be your last,i gurantee you that"what i meant was,his passport will be impounded.Meaning he can stay only in India.At no point of time,have i threatened to get him killed.His imagination has got the better of him.Frankly,you do not know this breed,of people.I may sound callous,but i assure you,i know my people.Make no mistakes about that.Further i said"As for threatening,please take it serious,you have offended people in India.You will be paid back for the slur you have brought to this country.Dont think America will protect you"how can one know the tone or tenor and come to conclusion that i have sent out a 'Supari' for him?In my opinion,if you could delete Hari Sampath message /m2234 you would be doing me a very huge favour.In fact ,he is practically accused me of getting him killed,which is not true.I dont hire people to kill.I hire people for my business and productive life.

All those alleged victims,my heart goes out to you.I do not doubt you for one second.I believe you.But there is a huge difference in perception.Swami is absolutely incapable of such evil intent.I am so sorry that Swami himself is not coming forward to ease your discomfort.But i always went and approached Swami,if i had any doubt.I never gave up.Sometimes i wonder what Swami sees in me?Please alleged victims read my posts,if you want i will try to arrange a one to one meeting with,i mean all alleged victims,hopefully Swami will grant me this wish,if you all are interested /m2257

Regarding the birth details controversy,my wife has two birth details.One official and another unofficial.My father-in-law has two birth details almost 4 years difference?There are many in the region when applying for school,or govt jobs give birth details differently.There is a superstition behind this.In India too,from region to region cultures vary to a large extent.If you go from one state to another,you will find the language is different,the scripts are different,the food habits are different.Each ethnic group is diverse.We believe in Unity of Diversity.As such some of the valid questions that i have asked,nobody has bothered to reply.Thanks truelight for lending your moral support to me,even though i hardly know you.

Edited by author 06-22-2002 09:07 AM
/m2279 ,Thanks for posting such a lovely post.I do not hate Hari Sampath.I just told plain truth.Even the 1993 incident i was there physically,and involved in the whole matter.So,please,i know the truth.Swami as usual is protecting us.He has even made the police take the blame in order to protect us.You all know nothing,thats why i feel bad,because unneccessarily a misunderstanding has gone blown out of proportion,and people are resorting such slanderous detail.That bothered me.I have dis obeyed Swami and posting here.I know i will face the consequences.I am a born Kshatriya.Its my duty to protect my people.That is my dharma.

But if Anthony Thomas tells me not to post,i will leave.Thanks.

>Oh dear. Blown Out ...are you talking only of the so->called pro > Sai people here? LOL. Pro-sai forces are >spamming and undermining??? Get serious. You poor >thing ..Are they interupting and sabotaging your hard efforts? LOL.

My few efforts (all too few) in the Expose at large are an attempt to bring to light the allegations against Sai Baba of various sorts, so that they are not covered up. Re-read, if you will, my post of a last Friday, and you will note that I expressed sadness at the discovery that there are quite a few BOTH pro AND anti-Sai people who frequent QT who seem to be in considerable conflict with each other.

Naturally, it seemed to me, former devotees would not inject antagonism into a Board which was, as I had understood it, to be a place where former devotees, mostly, could assist each other to come to terms with their serious loss of faith in one who had meant, for many of us, years spent in great love and devotion. It was also good to see that Anthony permitted on QT inputs from Sai devotees. Alas, as I read through more recent contributions, it strikes me that there are repeated cases where both pro Sai and former devotees have shown much acrimony, antagonism, insult, put-downs, etc. Even slander by hearsay, and no substantiation, has entered the fray. Again, sad indeed.

Yes, I refer to the possibility that pro Sai people are coming on to QT with an agenda to confuse and disrupt. For all I know there may be former devotees who are doing the same at some pro Sai site. Let us dearly trust that it is not so. If it is the case, may it be that any underhand tactics, or indeed anything which does not amount to tolerant and humane discussion, not even to mention loving discussion, will be exposed for what it is.
>
> This is not a debate? Is this a board dedicated to one >side only?

Let there be sides, but never the side of nastiness to each other. Respectfulness towards those, even from whom we may >greatly differ, surely suggests that sadhana is progressing, or even that old-fashioned politeness is still alive and well.
 
>Just a spinkling of sincere people whose >experiences .and >perceptions happen to differ, perhaps , from yours.

May it be that sincerity can extend to refraining from harsh and abusive language among the posters, no matter from which side it comes.
>
> I still see the decency in the current devotees, but I have >seen little of it in the anti-sai side.

Your observation may accord well with the fact that most former devotees of whom I am aware in networking do not post ANYWHERE, much less on QT.

BTW, if you have a look at the names of so many signatories on the JuST Petition, you will find the names of so many former devotees who held, for many years, postions of consderable responsibility in the Sai Organization, and who were held in very wide esteem, and are so still in their wider communities, trades and professions.

> They throw rotten tomatoes at the current pro-devotees >and call names simply for trying to engage them in >a "higher-minded " conversation.

By our fruits (not our rotten fruit (or tomatoe=berry) throwing we shall be known, whichever 'side' we are on.
 
> If you can't recognize the truth of our words and the >sincerity of our postings, then you lack sincerity >yourself and I am not buying into your well written >but "empty" post.

I shall need to introspect - for no doubt I shall find emptiness in myself (certainly, I have discovered it in the past).
>
> I am neutral, neither pro sai or against him, so I think >I can see it a little less biased than you .

Perhaps it will be the 'neutrals/ who can show us the way. May we all become much blesst.

Love from Your Blown Out Brother

Edited by author 06-22-2002 07:40 AM
/m2285 Air raids in Madras according to SSB

Truelight wrote:
>>There were air-raids there - India was part of England at the time and England was at war with Germany.<<

Did you ask some of the older inhabitants of Madras? Can somebody do that? They would surely remember the bombing of Madras. Not an event a person would easily forget. It could only have done from one of the sparse Japanese air craft carriers because the occupied territories of the Japanese were too far away.

The only reference to fighting between the English and the Japanese in British India that I could find was in the North Eastern part near Burma. Not in the South East (Madras).

Thanks in advance, Andries K.D.

There were air-raids there - India was part of England at the time and England was at war with Germany.

There would have been preparations for ware - even there. :)

Sai did indeed return and give vibuthi to the woman. (I remember reading about it some time ago.)

The problem with you people is that you concentrate so hard on the externals (bits and bobs) that you lose the real meaning of Sai - true experiences are internal and unique to each and every one. Only by your owner personal experiences with you understand the 'ring of truth.' (Not by others.)

But you cannot understand that.

V.V.Reddy has told you his experiences, revealed in detail his cure but you still doubt him. Why? Because you want to doubt - you want to find fault.

That is your problem - not Sai's problem.

The same goes for his birthday date. It was explained to you many times by different writers that in India you can have two birth certificates, depending on the year and the schooling provided etc. etc. But you failed to understand that too.

The problem is you tend to think of India being like the West but it is not. It is entirely different and has an entirely different viewpoint on the world.

Their culture is entirely different from ours - and Sai is a product of his culture. (He is more than that, he is highlighting much that is wrong with it - where by those within the Sai Movement can see it for themselves.)


And yes, there are many gurus in India, and instead of being one in the spirit....(smile) they are very jealous of one another. They compete for devotees and power.

What V.V.Reddy said about a certain frequent poster here, having a guru, he was probably right.

from http://bdsteel.tripod.com/More/stories1.htm (Brian Steel's page)

Air Raids on Madras/Chennai in November 1945 According to SSB

>>5. Eventually SB publicly gave his own dramatic version of the story in his Discourse on 18 October 1999. The reader will note one odd admission of 'non-omniscience' and some apparent confusion and invention about wartime (LIMF tells us Subbamma died on 25 November 1945) but still the main emphasis is on the miraculous momentary resurrection, in this case just before Subbamma's cremation.

[snip]

"Later, one day I had to go to Chennai in a hurry as desired by some devotees. I had to stay there for ten days. It was the war period. Once in every hour there used to be air-raid siren. The streets would become empty with that warning. Swami could not return to Puttaparthi. Meanwhile, Subbamma fell seriously ill. She was taken to Bukkapatnam. There she died. Her relatives started making sarcastic remarks: "Sai Baba gave word to her that He would pour water into her mouth at her last moments. Did He come? Where has He gone?"<<

I have to admit that I don't know much about the history of British India but to me air raids in Nov. 1945 on Chennai/Madras is in contradiction with all my limited knowledge. First of all it could not have been the Japanese who surrendered on 2 Sept. But even if LIMF made a mistake in the Nov. month then I would be very surprised if the Japanese had any aircraft carriers in the Indian ocean to attack Chennai/Madras. I thought they needed all their marine resources in the atlantic ocean to stop the American invasion.

Have there ever been air attackson Chennai/Madras. If so in Nov. 1945? Every hour?

whatever that truth is...or turns out to be.

<<Beth re 2247 Ever tried to put up anything against 'sb' on a pro 'sb' board? I think you will find there is a single agenda of people determined that nothing is said against their guru.>>

Yes, but you shouldn't hold that kind of attitude here. You should allow openness ...and allow the truth to be found.

There is a big difference between a deep and permanent cure and removal of a karmic illness and finding relief through natural healing methods. I know that. What these healers do is permanently remove the root of the illness, so that it is gone forever. Only a true healer can do this, that is, a man with God powers. It can only be done when the time is right for such action, cannot be done prematurly. This is the reason some are healed and some are not. Sai removes the spiritual causes of the disease if and when it is safe for it to be healed.

My understanding is that the objects that SB materializes and gives to people, no matter what they are made of, are talismans for protection. What more valuable an object can you get? So what if it's not gold or real emeralds.

I have personally checked out two of these rings (emerald-like stones in gold-like settings) at close range. I've held them in my hands and placed them on my fingers. They were very sturdy and well made. They were not cheap trinkets, but not ordinary jewelry from a jeweler either.I could tell that the "gold" was not ordinary gold as we know it. It was another substance, but I don't know what. The emerald like stones were enormous and beautiful.

My friend owns a lingham given to her by Baba and a locket of silver, with Baba's picture in the locket. (she did not put it there, it came from him that way.) The silver locket was very well made also. When he gave it to her, he told her it was for protection. She tends to be accident prone and he knew it.

Wait a minute you can't say that v.v.'s cure was just one of those things. it was an important cure for him.
The cure was carried out by swami and he is happy, and i gthink it is terrible to doubt this youhng man's reasoning and happiness about his cure.
I think for you anthony to suggest he could have been cured by alternative medcine is reduntant here.

I have found most alternative medicine to be slow and they do not work so well as usual type of medicine.


My cure was from a backache - a long standing problem that was terrible for me. then one night i put a photo graph of sai under my pillow without even thinking of a cure -next morning the terrible cronic backache was gone and it never came back.

the strange thing about the cure was the photo used is the one with sai holding the golden healing lingum. I had little interest in that particular photograph of Sai, in fact a friend had sent the photo to me saying it was used by others for healing purposes but i had ignored her until that night.

Strange really. As it worked for me - even with little faith. I never ever got that backache back again.

I can't type
the whole story out because i am using a lap top and i can't type with the keyboard provided.

As for the rings - of course they are fake - mostly. No really sincere guru would give out valuable rings and things - when he is teaching lessons on giving up worldly objects and desires.

The rings are a send-up and I think it is funny. Fancy people going to visit him, wanting rings and stuff - who phoney of them.

V.V. Reddy wrote:

But you have to make the effort to try and understand actions in proper perspective.

My answer:

Ok then, I do, and you have already described it, you have positive experiences with Baba, this is ok and genuine, in your experience, I must respect this, yes I really do, Baba was treating you manually, but these manipulations were genuine to you, they had nothing to do with sex or whatever, so this was what you experienced. Ok.
Let us say that Baba is not a sex-monster, this is ok too, I do believe you, but what does the story from Hans de Kraker in between? Hans is genuine too, that's for sure, I know Hans personally (yes, I really do!) it is impossible for him to lie on this matter, this was what really happened then, so I will accept your statement, but I think you should accept the statement from Hans de Kraker too, so what do we have here? Let me conclude that Baba cures a lot of people, ok, but many people are not cured too, many people are treated doctorwise, like you, and in numerous cases... Baba... you have to admit that... Baba can't take control of himself, he is going too far then, for example when a boy is very good-looking, like Hans is, or when there is a suitable occasion that gives reason to such abusive manipulations... V.V. Reddy, I know personally some (2)pedophiles too, these men are very kind, they should not even think a minute to harm a child, they just want to please them, but so now and then, they tell me, fondling is going a little further than that, but not too far, because these man are very capable of what their and the situation of the child is. So I think, this is happening the way Baba could be treating many boys, it is just..., that in some cases..., as a sheer contrast to the 2 people I mentioned, Baba can't..., like I said before, in some cases Baba cannot take control of himself... that's all.

Well, now I am going into your position, so, now I am you, for a moment I am V.V. Reddy, and like you, I only have had ok experiences, but then I read wrong messages about the Man who cured me for life, do you know what I should do? I would love Baba more than ever, and I would regret that Baba might be doing some bad things, and I would pray for him that, if this was so, because I can hardly believe it, that he would stop, and... I would leave this board, and never return here again, still loving Baba, because of what he did to me, I would be glad to leave the discussion, the hate for Hari Sampath, but ofcourse I would be sad too, knowing that my master might or seems to be abusing boys.

V.V. Reddy, may I serve you too be helpful? Give your love to Hari, please give love to us, with whom you disagree, but above all, love Baba, because of what has been said about him, and because about what he is, love and hate, positive and negative, alltogether: humanlike, because... that is the only way for you to survive, and once you are capable to this attitude, you may kindly leave this board, and never return again... V.V. Reddy, I (and most of us) love you too...

Beth re 2247 Ever tried to put up anything against 'sb' on a pro 'sb' board? I think you will find there is a single agenda of people determined that nothing is said against their guru.

***
VVReddy
Re 2265 You don't understand his method of 'clutching'!

Re 2270 You can't be so naive as to think that everything everyone says (whether true or not) has a pure intention? 'sb' says tons of things that are wise and truthful. How else do you think he would get people following him to the degree that they hand their life, body and soul over to him? I believe it says somewhere in the bible 'Lucifer (devil) would appear to be a shining white angel of light. In other words, you will be fooled if you think he would appear as some dark evil creature.' The message said in 2271 is a valid point.

I repeat, that I am glad that you were helped with your illness. We know many treatments use other body parts to heal a different affected area. Reflexology done on the feet, for example, can handle conditions throughout the body such as digestive problems or headaches.

I have deleted message 2238 referring to cast - at Hari's request. It is a valid complaint. Please refrain from attacking on a personal level.

It is true that long posts are rarely read by most people. You may like to stick to the shorter type.

***

Truelight
Bit of an exagerated statement perhaps! I believe I have deleted probably less than 10 posts since the board reopened. It is also, thankfully, a good many years since I was mad with anyone. If you have things to add that benefit the purpose of this board, you are welcome to do so.

***
If everyone would please refrain from attacking on a personal level, we may get a lot further.

v v ready,does you son go to ssb's school,if so, get the facts from your son and his friends that know!

Of cause you have "your experience" what about your son's experience or his friends. Don't want to listen to your son? or his friends? Thats right.

An interesting link to Cosmos,creation proven sceintifically with philosophical ruminations.
http://www.vethathiri.org/English/cosmology.htm

vvr,
 
 since youre quoting from movies for examples i suggest you rent out fright night if you like horror or devils advocate if you just want to know how the devil (if he is smart) would try beating
 christ. Even if you dont see the point they are great movies anyway!
 As far as nostradamus is concerned, your interpretation
 is evidently from the movie " the man who saw tommorow".
 Which is an interpretation of the book by movie maker's perspective. The book with the actual verses of nostradamus, if read,
 is too confusing and one cannot convincingly decipher
 the purport of his words completely. He writes in a very
 crytic and archaic form. There is room for interpretations whichever way the reader wishes.

> middle eastern country.But according to Swami,he will be from
> Central Asia,Iran,Pakistan region.
 
  Quite a common speculation.

> I somehow feel its Afghanistan that Swami was telling us.
> Osama Bin Laden for all you know could
> be the third anti-christ.
 
 Afghanistan is pretty much under pseudo-US-colonization now.
 Stability in some form might be returning. Osama is 'probably'
 running like a hunted rabbit. Nice anti christ he makes.

> all stop this nonsense witch hunting about Swami.
 
  I agree.. I am not one who would say SB is anti-christ and give him such importance. Hes just a slithery old son of a bitch who must die a long and painful death.
 Christ.. anti Christ.. let the romantics dvelwe upon such entertaining and morale-boosting exagerations of the good and the evil. In the real world there exists only human and it is within the human capacity to be either godlike or inhumane.
 
 ;-)

v v ready-"it's all to much"

Yes! ssb should dis-robe and give darshan in the nude for every one to see what he is doing instead of sex orgies in his little private room for all the world to see.

Alright! you say it's a blessing and a healing still, and nothing would change your mind.- you must be a real FOOL v v ready.

This may sound crude but not as crude as bonking off 6 and 7 year old boys going to his schools.

This ssb sounds like a donky or should I say a real jack-ass. His arse would be seated on a seat of an International Court of Law to be investigated - so no misunderstandings can accur.

"Vidana thu anena ithi Vedah", "That which reveals and makes clear all knowledge is Veda". The word 'Veda' originated from the root 'Vid', meaning 'to know'.No one has understood correctly the beginning of the Veda or its end. So, it is hailed as Anaadi (Beginningless) and Sanathana (Eternal). Since the first and the last of the Veda are not known, it is Nitya, Everlasting. The intelligence of humans is tainted but since the Veda has no trace of taint, it is concluded that it cannot be a human product. So the Veda is also characterised as A-pourusheya (Non-personal).

EXTRACTED FROM SWAMIS DISCOURSE,AND SUCH A BEING WHO TALKS LIKE THIS IS "ANTI-CHRIST"???????Please.........

/m2271 ,R cube,as per OMEN the movie,the Devil Damien had 666 on his head.As per Nostradamus,the third anti-christ will be from middle eastern country.But according to Swami,he will be from Central Asia,Iran,Pakistan region.I somehow feel its Afghanistan that Swami was telling us.Osama Bin Laden for all you know could be the third anti-christ.Swami has also predicted colosal American lives will be lost much greater than the Vietnam War.I really wish that you all stop this nonsense witch hunting about Swami.

Its too much.

> Can a evil person use all these sarva dharma symbols,and resort to
> such evil depths as some of you are alleging?

  What else would you expect of evil ? Sport the sign of the pentagram or 666 and walk around ?

Quoting Swami from his discourse on May 25th 2002,"The Buddha too made similar effort to find the source of happiness. He searched for God everywhere, and at last found that God was within him. He realized that he himself was an embodiment of Ananda (Bliss)."so the bottom line is,we all can find our god within ourselves,which is nothing but but the ageless eternal truth of the Vedas.

So,how can anybody in their right senses term Swami as anti-christ?The symbol CROSS sign of Jesus Christ adorn the emblem of Swamis organisation along with the symbols of the Hindus-OM;Moon and Star of Islam;The eternal fire of Zorosters;The Wheel of Buddhisim of the Buddhists;?Please use your god given talent of common sense.Can a evil person use all these sarva dharma symbols,and resort to such evil depths as some of you are alleging?

Beth, Honey (yep, I'm back) you said you're not a devotee and in another post you said sb could never get your soul. Do you know why? It seems obvious to me from your posts that he already has your soul, good and tight.

I'm very sad to see this, but it's the only conclusion that makes sense after reading your rambling, often confused and very pro-sai posts. Honey, you sound exactly like a typical devotee, even if you don't know it.

I don't think it's possible to have one foot in the sb bath water and one foot out. It's all or nothing. Since you're not out Beth, you must be in. I wish I could help you, but it would mean throwing out so many of your cherished beliefs. And you're so secure in where you're coming from.

Quoting Robert Priddy again"Any transcendental or eternal truth, if it bears no meaningful relation to anything here and now, is not worth any further consideration."on the one hand he says transcendental or eternal,and then immediately comes to, here and now,what do you make out of a guy,like this?A tweety bird,i think,ROFL.

http://home.no.net/anir/Sai/enigma/credo.htm

Quoting Robert Priddy"Then in 1996, my extremely good friend, V.K. Narasimhan told me in secret the key facts behind the murders at the ashram in 1993."what are the key facts?What did VKN say?Another one from the same clan as that of Hari Sampath,ROFL.Dont tell me that i did not warn you,you dont know these breed of people.

 /m2264: Andries nobody can be raping people continuously for the last 62 years,right in the middle of public glare.Get real.Swamis methods are corny and gross to some people,but believe me they must be cured of something.I wish i knew all these chaps who are talking about this as pedophilia.It is not.In fact they need greater understanding and compassion in my opinion.Not a single individual,has so far come out of the interview room crying,bleeding,screaming,screeching-how can that be,that too for the last 62 years?No,definitely some sinister group is behind this conspiracy,in my opinion.

Quoting Anthony Thomas"who have left the clutches of 'sb'",i truly wonder and amazed at such immature gibberish.I have never known Swami to hold someone against their will,or for that matter converted anyone from one religion to another.He is continuously making people believe in themselves,bring greater worthiness to the religion that they belong.This misunderstanding must be finished completely,about Swami,as it serves no purpose for the larger good.

Its so negatively biased,based on unsubstantiated slander,i cannot believe that people had to have such nonsensical reasons to leave Swami?

Edited by author 06-21-2002 07:07 PM
Truelight wrote in /m2262:
>>I don't know why people want rings and things - that is wrong from my point of view. <<

At least in one case I know that SSB gave a ring to someone who didn't want it. SSB told him that the ring was real but it turned out to be fake when tested in the jewellery.

I really think that the trinkets and rings are symbolic for the whole SSB affair as SSB admitted himself in the 1976 Blitz interview. People were looking for truth and God and found somebody who said he was God and spoke the truth. It looked all so authentic. Like the rings it was all fake. SSB raped all his devotees spiritually and in some cases literally.

Of course devotees bear some responsibility for being so gullible and swallowing the bait but the main culprits are SSB and his accomplices.

Kind regards, Andries

truelight,that was nice,your perception about god.I liked it,thanks.

V.V.Reddy, Well, there you are. :>>>>>>>>>

I don't read all the posts - some of them are too rehashed to be of interest to me now.

I only read those posts that I feel will be interesting to my finding out the truth.

To tell you the truth V.V., I have had my own personal experiences of Sai and hold them dear. They have not always been nice or easy lessons at all, some have been tough indeed.

I have also had a healing from him - some years ago. I can't tell it here because Anthony would be mad at me and probably delete my post. But I difinitely had a healing. Now I need another healing (I have been very sick, recently.)But I'm not sure I'll get another.

How come your ring was a fake V.V.?

You said it had tacky diamonds that came loose and then fell out etc. etc.

Do you believe all the rings are false or fake or cheap.

My thoughts about the rings (I never had one) is they are mostly fakes. I feel Sai gives out fake rings to people to build up their egos, knowing full well the rings will one day be valued and be found to be fakes. (hee hee.)

I don't know why people want rings and things - that is wrong from my point of view.

Have I seen God? Know God? ----no, I'm afraid I don't.

I feel God is a verb not a noun - it is energy more than a person. I don't think humankind can know energy. It is just there.

But I do believe in trying to make the best of what I have.

I feel we all have a life after death and that we go to different planes of existance - and when we die, we go to the highest plane according to how we lived life here on earth.

Therefore, it is very important to learn self-awareness and give due attention to the lessons that come our way in life.

end of speech.

Andires how did you manage to post this "/m2140 /m2139".Is it javascript that you use or can we use html.Thanks.

At this point,may i ask,each and every individual here,if they are god believers,how at all,they have had their faiths?Is it because,no one(I am assuming)has seen GOD or spoken to GOD or read his actual writings?If they have seen GOD,spoken to GOD,read GODS writings,please tell me about it.

trulight,you are very funny.Loosen up was told by hans drucker in his narration as an alleged victim,ROFL.Nice try,ROFL.

Oh V.V. :) Now I see what you mean. Yes, I've heard of the Apollo hospital system - even here. So yes, I do believe you now.

When Sai told you to 'loosen up' - maybe he was referring to you being tense all the time. (If you are tense you will be sick or feel sick or retch.)

That is common.

I think you must have been an up-tight person and perhaps it affected your abilities to 'do' whatever you wanted to do.

I hope you understand me. :)

truelight,you are confusing me now.All i know that i am happy man.My wife,children are happy.My business is booming.I have had a second chance to live,when all doctors were helpless to save me,Swami did something,which honestly i dont know how to explain,but the fact is i am cured.I feel full gratitude for Swami,thats all.This is my experince and i cherish it with all of my heart.I feel empathy with all those brothers out there in the world who have had similar or identical experience like mine,and i only wish they could discuss it with Swami threadbare and finish this misunderstanding.

Oh digestive problems???? Well I never...

Oh, I thought the problems were to do with the privates. smile. (trust me.)

Why Beth, did Sai rub his privates then?

Are the privates the way to the body diseases or something?

V.V. I will go to your post and read it for myself.

I hope I have not confused you. :)

----------------------------------------------------
V.V.

I thought Sai rubbed your privates because you had a sexual problem? (seems like I was wrong.)

Sai Baba brings to the surface a lotta... stuff V.V., not only the sexual thing but other stuff. Much of it unpleasant.

But it takes years and years for people to understand this point and maybe for some people they don't want to understand it.

I think if I were a young man going through that sort of experience, (as you describe) I would be very hurt and very angry - even if I was mature enough to understand it to be a 'lesson from the teacher.'

Only time will tell if the lessons were effective.

It would be thoughtful of Sai devotees to have compassion for the men and youths who have had this sort of experience. (And understand their pain.)

That would make them better people.

To sneer or to make fun of others' experiences is ignorant on both sides. :(

trulight you may go to 2164,to read my ailments.Yes it was a one time experiance.I thought Swami was my doctor,and in that form Swami is doing his operation,and subjected myself to the due process and got CURED.

Truelight,
I believe VV. Reddy had digestive problems, nothing related to sexual problems, that he was told anyway.. If I remember, he couldn't eat or hold down food and he was losing weight rapidly and his parents were worried. Is this at all correct Mr. Reddy? I 'm sorry if I got the story wrong. Anyway, the problem was cured. My understanding is that vibhuti was rubbed on to the genital area and it was a one-time experience.

I hope Anthony you leave V.V.'s messages intact. He is obviously not in the West and can only speak from his own local viewpoint. (He speaks as most Indians speak in India and brings to the board debate and views of Indian life and culture as it is.)

Or he is trying to :>>>>>>


Refreshing.

(Not all Indians are Sai devotees - but most hold some sort of regard for him.) And he is thought of as a national treasure there.

Rape is extremely difficult thing to do unless and untill the other person is passive.NOBODY can force themselves on the anal tract and rape them.Its absolutely impossible for anyone to show their bums and get sodomised unless they want to get sodomised.To get reapeatedly sodomised and not complain just baffles me.I am willing to hear other voices of dissent,but its hard for me to believe that Swami would indulge with sexual intent of seeking pleasure.Its impossible in my dictionary.I still maintain the methods deployed by Swami was for some illness or ailments.I am a living testimony for exactly the same methods he used for me.I would go to the extent of saying,maybe its some patented technological service,that only Swami knows,for curing and healing people.It would be interesting know as to how these people are leading their lives now.

If the methodology adopted by Swami was misunderstood by many,and now they claim to alleged victims of rape,i have nothing to tell them,except seek counseling,or better still confront Swami and seek an explanation from him directly.Thats the right thing to do.

Again i repeat myself,its absolutely impossible to be raped in the interview room.The venue,the atmosphere,above all,a 77 year old Swami jumping on the boys sodomising,ROFL.Why would an avatar want to sodomise boys,kiss them or do totally alien things in our culture?There is indeed a deep rooted conspiracy to discredit our nations teachers and Hindu Teachings in my opinion.

V.V. - so your father is head man in your village? Well that's nice. But it is not important here on this Sai Baba board. It doesn't matter what you are - what religion or what's your position in the world - no one is at all interested.

We are only interested in people telling the truth. :)

V.V. Reddy?

You baffle me. I have never said anything wrong on the board, not against S.B. at least.

I guess you get muddled with our English sometimes.

I cannot look at the post where you describe your healing as I do not know where it is. You post quite a few long posts .V.V. (I never read long posts.) I don't have time and using the internet in my country is expensive. So I cannot spend time looking backward at your posts.

Has anyone else read what V.V. Reddy was actually cured of - by having his privates rubbed? :)

V.V. Reddy who don't you post the need for your cure again. Not the experience of the cure, (not the sexual thing) but what actually you, youself were cured of.

Did you have problems with women, or with men, or with sex, or with anyone at all?

It would answer a lot if you replied.

Anthony Thomas,i am taking the liberty of posting a reply to you for someone else as i feel its below my dignity to answere him.If you find my message repulsive,please delete it.

"Also the judges remarked "Although going to the High court is time consuming, there is no immediate urgency to this case, as these things in the petition have been going on for years, and how will a few more months jeopardize the case"

The Judgement was "Petitioner may approach appropriate forum",(1)so the bottom line is please get the hell out of here,as this finds no place in the Supreme Court for judgement.(2)Have the High Court at least entertained your petition?ROFL.(3)There you go again,you are self important indignant attitude-claiming you are the only whose case the Supreme Court even went that far,compared to Abhraham Kovoor,Premanand,Professor Narasimhamurthy court cases-ROFL,little boy,please grow up!!!!

(4)India is a big country with bigger people than you.You were treated with respect as any ordinary citizen of the country would enjoy as per the constitution.