There are 11 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: the things people say
From: "Connie Habash" <Connie@awakeningself.com>
2. Re: Digest Number 1203
From: "Sankaran narayanan" <n_sankaran_iyer@hotmail.com>
3. Re: Q&A Swami debate with Amma
From: Gopal N <gkn2000us@yahoo.com>
4. Re: the things people say
From: "Dixie Thacker" <dixielou@surfbest.net>
5. Re: Q&A Swami debate with Amma
From: "Dixie Thacker" <dixielou@surfbest.net>
6. Re: Q&A Swami debate with Amma
From: "gkn2000us" <gkn2000us@yahoo.com>
7. Re: Faith
From: balakrishnan Shankar <balakrishnan_sh@yahoo.com>
8. Re: Faith
From: Gabriela Rios <gabriela1027@yahoo.com>
9. Re: Faith
From: balakrishnan Shankar <balakrishnan_sh@yahoo.com>
10. Re: Faith
From: Gabriela Rios <gabriela1027@yahoo.com>
11. MEDITATE WHILE YOU WORK (28)
From: Girish <girish_srv@yahoo.com>
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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 21:49:19 -0700
From: "Connie Habash" <Connie@awakeningself.com>
Subject: Re: the things people say
Om Namah Shivaya -
I probably don't need to add my 2 cents, but here it is:
I don't pay much attention to the opinions or
words of others when it comes to matters of my inner truth.
I know what is true for me, what I feel within my soul. Even
when my own head doubts, I have learned to put that aside
and just go see Amma, or do my sadhana (even though I
sometimes forget or get "too busy", I keep coming back to it).
My own head will often say things that I know are false or
even offensive - I have to learn to ignore it and not react
even to myself! It's just blather and vasanas.
People will say what they will say. We have no control over
that - I think that's beyond whether they have a "right" to say
what they say or not. They will think what they think and say
what they say. There will always be those who say something
negative about something good, and vice versa. I've not found
it helpful to get agitated about what others say. It's kind of like
walking in a storm - keep your head low and keep walking
forward, no matter what's blowing your way. That's how I look
at it. I figure the less energy I give to that stuff, the better, and
the more energy I have for my own inner work (which I certainly
need!). If we feed them energy by our reactions, they just get
more energized. This is why I often don't post to the group -
I just trust that things work themselves out. Plus, I'm always
questioning my own motives for wanting to say something.
If you are agitated by what I say - just keep your head low and
continue walking to the next post. ;)
Blessings,
Achintya
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 05:52:23 +0000
From: "Sankaran narayanan" <n_sankaran_iyer@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1203
I have no interest in getting into this debate, but i wanted to post an
interview answer given by Mother in rediff (one of India's most respected
news sources) about handling criticism - the original itself is at
http://im.rediff.com/news/2002/aug/02inter1.htm ...
Question: You have many critics.
Answer: Critics will be there. But they are not there now the way they were
when the avatars of gods were born -- like Christ, or Ram or Krishna. So
many people were killed before their birth, and so many were killed even
when they were living. So, that will always be there. And criticism should
be there. The easiest way to destroy a nation is to not criticize the prime
minister. Only when criticism comes will the flaws be highlighted. I am not
angry with them. There will always be differences of view.
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 6 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 22:17:16 -0000 From: "medshanti"
><medshanti@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Digest Number 1201
>
>To hopefully bring a peaceful end to this discussion:
>
>Amma has is now quoted (below) on this subject and says she tried to
>dissuade the Swami. Some like to consider such things, but this group is
>not a place where such things are discussed without upsetting too many
>people. The Amma Free Speech Zone Yahoo group, or other sites discussing
>the pros and cons of such things, is the place where you can discuss these
>issues, not here. Upsetting people by asking them to consider such things
>here does nothing because nearly everyone here never sees any problem and
>they do not come here to think about such things. Personally, I value
>seeing Amma and reading some of what is here, but these incidents and the
>attitudes of her followers have, as you suggest, changed my and some others
>opinion on her, one reason why I'm not seeing her this time. The nature of
>posts here have disillusioned me and many others about taking Amma as a
>guru since to me the actions of her followers and those here obviously
>reflect her wishes in these actions, and her wish that no one question
>anything, but making such statements here upsets people here and so I do
>not intend to repeat this. For the record, Amma herself does seem to
>realize these issues are damaging her on the outside and aren't going to go
>away:
>
>------------------------------------------ San Jose Mercury News:
>
>"Asked about a controversial legal case in which a resident of her main
>ashram in Kollam, India, had filed a defamation lawsuit seeking criminal
>prosecution of a longtime critic of the sect, the guru said she had tried
>to dissuade the plaintiff. But she added that the critic had gone too far,
>making false claims that there had been seven suspicious deaths at the
>Kollam ashram -- which houses more than 2,000 people -- outraging residents
>and bereaved families.
>
>``This has been very painful,'' Amritanandamayi said. The case has not gone
>to trial. While she did not say whether she planned to intervene, she said
>the critic, author Sreeni Pattathanam, ``won't go to jail'' if he's
>convicted. (Pattathanam says the threat of criminal prosecution violates
>his right to free speech.)" -------------------------------------------
>Again, this is my first and last post here on such matters unless Amma
>herself comments further beyond what she has said or decides to further
>intervene and request the Swami to desist. I do not want to offend anyone
>further who does not understand why anyone would be concerned, but
>considering what Amma herself has said, this needed to be said.
>
>
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 00:00:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gopal N <gkn2000us@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Q&A Swami debate with Amma
I don't know the specific event that Jyotsna mentioned, where Amma had a heated debate with one of the Swamijis. A similar incident happened at San Ramon tonight, where Amma was answering a devotee's question, but the Swamiji didn't translate the idea very well. So she got frustrated and started inturrupting the translation. At one point, Amma got so frustrated, she called Swamiji a "Pottan" (deaf) and playfully pinched his ears!! Finally she broke down the idea in different steps, and asked him to translate accordingly. Since I knew Malayalam, I was able to enjoy the whole debate!!
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 10:45:53 -0400
From: "Dixie Thacker" <dixielou@surfbest.net>
Subject: Re: the things people say
----- Original Message -----
From: Connie Habash
To: Ammachi@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Ammachi] the things people say
Namaste, Achintya
Thank you so much for this post; I, too, am tending to question my motives for posting here. (And am not always finding them to be as 'pure' as I'd hope - that ego is still running amock!). But - isn't there always one? - I also know that on several occassions my posts have evoked responses I've needed and I have also had the psots between others grant me 'light bulb' moments.
It always amazes me that I am so decisive/firmly stanced in all other aspects of my life but this one ties knots in my brain every time I turn around.
Love,
Snehalata (the WV one!)
Om Namah Shivaya -
I probably don't need to add my 2 cents, but here it is:
I don't pay much attention to the opinions or
words of others when it comes to matters of my inner truth.
I know what is true for me, what I feel within my soul. Even
when my own head doubts, I have learned to put that aside
and just go see Amma, or do my sadhana (even though I
sometimes forget or get "too busy", I keep coming back to it).
My own head will often say things that I know are false or
even offensive - I have to learn to ignore it and not react
even to myself! It's just blather and vasanas.
People will say what they will say. We have no control over
that - I think that's beyond whether they have a "right" to say
what they say or not. They will think what they think and say
what they say. There will always be those who say something
negative about something good, and vice versa. I've not found
it helpful to get agitated about what others say. It's kind of like
walking in a storm - keep your head low and keep walking
forward, no matter what's blowing your way. That's how I look
at it. I figure the less energy I give to that stuff, the better, and
the more energy I have for my own inner work (which I certainly
need!). If we feed them energy by our reactions, they just get
more energized. This is why I often don't post to the group -
I just trust that things work themselves out. Plus, I'm always
questioning my own motives for wanting to say something.
If you are agitated by what I say - just keep your head low and
continue walking to the next post. ;)
Blessings,
Achintya
Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 10:49:29 -0400
From: "Dixie Thacker" <dixielou@surfbest.net>
Subject: Re: Q&A Swami debate with Amma
----- Original Message -----
From: Gopal N
To: Ammachi@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 3:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Ammachi] Q&A Swami debate with Amma
Namaste,
Just a fun question related to your post - and one I've wondered about before: If Amma does not speak English, how does she catch a mistranslation? (-:
I suspect she understand all languages -anyone else think so?
At Mother's feet,
Snehalata
I don't know the specific event that Jyotsna mentioned, where Amma had a heated debate with one of the Swamijis. A similar incident happened at San Ramon tonight, where Amma was answering a devotee's question, but the Swamiji didn't translate the idea very well. So she got frustrated and started inturrupting the translation. At one point, Amma got so frustrated, she called Swamiji a "Pottan" (deaf) and playfully pinched his ears!! Finally she broke down the idea in different steps, and asked him to translate accordingly. Since I knew Malayalam, I was able to enjoy the whole debate!!
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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 17:56:28 -0000
From: "gkn2000us" <gkn2000us@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Q&A Swami debate with Amma
--- In Ammachi@yahoogroups.com, "Dixie Thacker" <dixielou@s...> wrote:
> Namaste,
>
> Just a fun question related to your post - and one I've wondered
about before: If Amma does not speak English, how does she catch a
mistranslation? (-:
>
> I suspect she understand all languages -anyone else think so?
>
> At Mother's feet,
> Snehalata
Amma may not be fluent in English, but she is very sharp and
understands most of the translation. She wants Swamiji to translate
her speech without adding anything to it. Last night, Amma talked
about a woman getting jealous about not being able to marry the man
she loved (when the guy is married to someone else, kind of like the
situation in the Alanis Morriset song "Ironic"). During the
translation, Swamiji stretched this idea and went on and talked about
boyfriend-girlfriend jealousy etc. Mother immediately caught this
additional material and stopped him from talking further.
Gopal
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:42:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: balakrishnan Shankar <balakrishnan_sh@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Faith
namah shivaya
We should keep our focus on Amma, not on the people around Her . I dont think any ordinary person can do what Amma has been doing for 30 years now-meeting thousands, sacrificing Her body in utter selflessness, starting such wonderful charitable activities, granting visions of the Lord to few lucky ones( my own friend has had a direct experience of this kind), exhibiting omniscience to an astonishing degree( i personally have had at least 3 amazing experiences of this), monitor a thousand activities to such perfection constantly, etc etc etc ....
Why are we so quick to question and blame and criticise , instead of being quick to praise the so palpable greatness of Amma, and and instead of trying to develop acceptance and faith?
people will keep saying all sorts of things- if we allow our minds to be agitated each time someone distorts words( which is what the San jose mercury news reporter did with Dayamrit Swami's words- I know that from what swami said here) and , when are we going to ever know peace and faith?
For all detractors and critics i say- come and experience Amma for yourself. If you feel you can do what Amma does- go ahead- hug thousands, hug lepers and dogs and young and old alike with an equal love, lick a leper's wounds, have a constant smile, forsake food and sleep and be ever fresh like Her- i challenge any one to do what Amma is doing ...
bala
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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:43:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gabriela Rios <gabriela1027@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Faith
Namah Shivaya,
Thank you, Bala. Nicely put.
I can understand why people might be concerned. It is
important to question your faith from time to time -
it only makes it stronger. What I cannot understand
is why some think that because they are concerned, we
should ALL be concerned.
Each person's concern or lack of it is between them
and their guru.
In Amma,
Gabriela
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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:52:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: balakrishnan Shankar <balakrishnan_sh@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Faith
Namah Shivaya Gabriela,
Yes - but my point is we should not confuse between Amma's devotees and Amma- the people around Amma arent all jivanmuktas and they have vasanas too.They are liable to make mistakes and Amma may even allow them to make a mistake so that they will learn from it. We should focus only on Amma and not on those around Her .
bala
Gabriela Rios <gabriela1027@yahoo.com> wrote:
Namah Shivaya,
Thank you, Bala. Nicely put.
I can understand why people might be concerned. It is
important to question your faith from time to time -
it only makes it stronger. What I cannot understand
is why some think that because they are concerned, we
should ALL be concerned.
Each person's concern or lack of it is between them
and their guru.
In Amma,
Gabriela
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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 16:12:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gabriela Rios <gabriela1027@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Faith
Namah Shivaya,
I agree, Bala. I didn't mean to detract from your
point. I was trying to make another one. I should've
stated mine in a new message. But yes, I agree that
the "fruit" by which we may judge Amma is her message,
not her devotees. Everyone, save Amma, is fallible.
As one of Amma's swami's said to me recently, "Amma is
the only true renunciate".
In Amma,
Gabriela
--- balakrishnan Shankar <balakrishnan_sh@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Namah Shivaya Gabriela,
>
> Yes - but my point is we should not confuse
> between Amma's devotees and Amma- the people around
> Amma arent all jivanmuktas and they have vasanas
> too.They are liable to make mistakes and Amma may
> even allow them to make a mistake so that they will
> learn from it. We should focus only on Amma and not
> on those around Her .
>
> bala
>
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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 19:25:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Girish <girish_srv@yahoo.com>
Subject: MEDITATE WHILE YOU WORK (28)
MEDITATE WHILE YOU WORK : A NEW PATH FOR A NEW AGE (29)
Swami Ashokananda
I have not the least doubt that if we had done that in
India, India would have risen much earlier - strong with an
unaccustomed strength. His message was not the message of
non-violence, which is negative and confusing. His message was
the message of strength. Unfortunately, we did not receive that
message as we ought to have done when he gave it. By 'we' I mean
the masses of the Hindus. We shall have to listen to that message
again and recognize that it is the only thing. Only then will
India stand upon her own feet, glorified with a glory yet undreamt
of by mankind. Swami Vivekananda often used to say, 'I see three
hundred years of India's future before my eyes.' And he also said,
'The glory of India that is yet to be is so great that nothing of
her past glory can come near it. You cannot even imagine the
glorious India that is ahead of you.'
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