Satsang

Satsangh is the company of a good person. 'Sat' stands for godliness, 'sangh' for company.

Company of the sants (saints, which word came from sant) ennobles, educates (in a higher sense) and 'purifies' us. Purifies means removes from our mind greed, lust, pride, jealousy, vanity and delusion. We generally see these defects in other people. But in Satsangh, I start seeing them in myself, because I am in the Satsangh basically for myself, to correct myself.


Were I totally happy with myself needing nothing, I would not have come to Satsangh. It is this need, a fear of uncertain future, a lacuna in life in spite of having everything, an in explicable void despite being wealthy or powerful, that makes me come of Satsangh. When I am totally happy and contented and need nothing (because of right understanding of the world), then also I will come to Satsangh to share what I know with others.


In Satsangh the prevailing atmosphere is one of nobility, understanding, generosity and love. All noble qualities are to the fore, suppressing the baser instincts and feeling. All satsanghiis (people who attend satsanghs) seem to like each other and ever willing to help each other. When we first started the fire, most of the logs were wet and only one or two a bit dry; these kept the fire alive and exposed other wet logs to the heat of the fire. Slowly but surely, all logs started drying up and the fire started burning brightly. Any passer-by could come and get the warmth.


Why purification of mind is necessary ? Same reason why we clean our reading glasses; with dust, oilstain and paint marks on my spectacles, I won't be able to read anything, and if I insist on reading through them, you would say that I was crazy; but that's what's the whole world's problem. We just won't wipe our specs clean and see clearly. So too, the mind full of desires (paint marks) and other enemies (stains and dust), is unable to know what is good for it. Tragically, it does not even know that its specs are full of dust & dirty.


In Satsangh, we read the scripture of our choice (Gita, Upanishad, Bhaagavatam, Ramaayana etc.), read commentaries and either discuss or someone knowledgeable explains the meaning and its relevance in today's world. Invariably the practical day to day living guidance is given.

The duration is generally 90 minutes to 2 hr. First half hour of bhajans, chanting, and the last half hour for mahaprasad (eating what was offered to Lord). The central time is for discourse.

We families have been meeting 4 to 5 times a week since 16 years; This itself is a great miracle. How can one meet, talk, eat with same families week after week without getting tired of each other?

Something of an experience.

---Email from Guruji

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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There are 14 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. AMMA SAYS - APHORISM
           From: "chembalacnair" <chembalacnair@yahoo.com>
      2. AMMA SAYS - STORIES & JOKES
           From: "chembalacnair" <chembalacnair@yahoo.com>
      3. Waiting for Mother
           From: Gabriela Rios <gabriela1027@yahoo.com>
      4. Seattle Retreat, con't.
           From: "E. Lamb" <jyotsna2@yahoo.com>
      5. Re: Digest Number 1202
           From: sprose1@aol.com
      6. Re: Digest Number 1201
           From: "medshanti" <medshanti@yahoo.com>
      7. MEDITATE WHILE YOU WORK (28)
           From: Girish <girish_srv@yahoo.com>
      8. Re: Digest Number 1202
           From: "Dixie Thacker" <dixielou@surfbest.net>
      9. P.S.
           From: "E. Lamb" <jyotsna2@yahoo.com>
     10. Re: Digest Number 1202
           From: Brianna Mosteller <rubyrapunzel@yahoo.com>
     11. Q&A Swami debate with Amma
           From: Gabriela Rios <gabriela1027@yahoo.com>
     12. AMMA SAYS - APHORISM
           From: "chembalacnair" <chembalacnair@yahoo.com>
     13. AMMA SAYS - STORIES & JOKES
           From: "chembalacnair" <chembalacnair@yahoo.com>
     14. Re: AMMA SAYS - APHORISM
           From: smith john <noothername2001@yahoo.com>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 01:47:30 -0000
   From: "chembalacnair" <chembalacnair@yahoo.com>
Subject: AMMA SAYS - APHORISM

OM AMRITESWARYAI NAMAH

AMMA SAYS:

"A perfect man is one who can maintain a peaceful mind in the midst
of any crisis."

::

Amma Sharanam
May all the beings in all the worlds be peaceful and happy.



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 02:05:21 -0000
   From: "chembalacnair" <chembalacnair@yahoo.com>
Subject: AMMA SAYS - STORIES & JOKES

OM AMRITESWARYAI NAMAH

AMMA SAYS - JOKE

Mother in-law's Parrot

You are all familiar with the classical mother-in-law / daughter-in-
law conflict. The mother-in-law always starts arguments with her
daughter-in-law over petty household matters. There was one such
mother-in-law who would always curse her daughter-in-law,
yelling, "Get lost! Drop dead!".

Now, it so happened that this mother-in-law had a pet parakeet.
Constantly overhearing the mother-in-law's curses towards the
daughter-in-law, it had cleverly picked up the same demeaning
phrases. It would always repeat after the mother-in-law, rebuking
the daughter-in-law, squarwking, "Get lost! Drop dead!" It got to a
point where even when the mother-in-law was not around, the parrot,
on it own, would squawk, "Get lost! Drop dead!" at the son's wife.

She was of course getting quite fed up with all of this. It was bad
enough that the mother was cursing her, but to have a parrot
screaming at her all the time was just too much to bear. So one day,
when the mother-in-law was out, the daughter-in-law decided to get
rid of the parrot, once and for all. She took it to her friend's
house and told her to keep it.

The girlfriend knew of a certain very scholarly and pious man living
nearby. This man also owned a parrot. So she thought it would be a
good idea to give the mother-in-law's parrot to this scholar. Then
the two birds could have company. So she gave the parrot away. Now,
the scholar's parrot, from having lived in the scholar's ashram-like
home, had learnt to repeat very pious and kind words. Just as the
scholar would bless his visitors, saying, "O God, listen to his
prayer and bless him," the parrot would say the same thing.

The scholar put the two parrots in the same cage. Now, whenever
visitors came to his house, the two feathery friends would bless
them accordingly. The scholar's parrot would of course say "O God,
listen to his prayer and bless him!." But the mother-in-law's parrot
would jump forward and say, "Get lost! Drop dead!".

"Children, deeply rooted are our past tendencies and habits.
Changing circumstances is not enough; to overcome them requires
great effort."
::
AMMA SHARANAM



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 09:32:49 -0700 (PDT)
   From: Gabriela Rios <gabriela1027@yahoo.com>
Subject: Waiting for Mother

Om Namah Shivaya,

Life post-darshan has become little more than waiting
until my next darshan.

I returned to Austin from the Seattle/Tacoma retreat
on Monday night feeling like I was leaving home rather
than returning. Tuesday I spent the whole day with
only half my mind on my job, the other half trying to
figure out how I could get back to Mother quickly.
Today is worse; I'm feeling slightly depressed and
detached, only wishing I could be back with Her. I'll
see Her again in three and a half weeks, but I'm
afraid I'll feel worse after that knowing I won't see
Her again for a year.

Ma, please be with me. I feel lonely without you.

This is my second year with Mother, and the connection
grows deeper. For the first time, I can actually hear
Her Voice sometimes. My second darshan of the retreat
I felt the first tangible effects for long minutes
after. Each time I see Her, and slowly as time
passes, it's as if She's slowly turning the dial on a
combination in my soul and every now and then I feel
something fall into place.

Today I'm weepy for Mother and for the atmosphere of
the retreat.

~~~

Yogaman, thank you very much for the ride from the
airport. I looked for you after DB to say I needed a
later ride, but couldn't find you. I apologize if I
held you up.

Jyotsna, so much to thank you for it will take a
personal email at a later date. I very much look
forward to seeing you in Dallas.

Kalika, and everyone else I met: the connection runs
deep and I miss you.

To the woman I spoke with at the jewely table when I
was doing security seva: The $700 for the chain and
gem will BUY A HOME for a family in India. You did a
good thing, and you have the shakti in those items to
wear close to your heart. I'll never forget our
conversation.

I can't write more about the retreat yet, but I'm
taking notes in my journal to share later.

Om Namah Shivaya,
With a deep longing for Mother,
Gabriela




__________________________________
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Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com/


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
   Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 11:52:08 -0700 (PDT)
   From: "E. Lamb" <jyotsna2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Seattle Retreat, con't.

Gabriela, I forgot to mention in my earlier posts
what a pleasure it was to meet you again, and how
much I look forward to seeing you in Dallas, also.
To my dear friends Kalika and Snehalata, (whom I know
read these posts) thanks for all your wonderful help
with the long hours of registration. You were both
fantastic!

From the retreat...

Here's a charming story that Sw. Krishnamrita told
at her Friday night (?) satsang:

A year or so ago at Guru Poornima, Amma ended up
leaving the hall by way of the Snack Shop. Somehow,
as she exited the Snack Shop she had managed to snag
a cookie! (Since Amma has diabetes, one of the
constant leelas around her concerns her sugar
consumption and other's attempts to stop same.)
Several people pointed this "cookie contraband" out
to Krishnamrita and suggested she take it from Amma.
Krishnamrita said she was going to, but then she
said to the others, "You had a good breakfast, did
you not? You've eaten all your meals today, have
you not? Amma hasn't had anything to eat all day.
Maybe she needs a cookie."

Amma broke off part of the cookie for Krishnamrita
as a way of rewarding her for "sticking up for Amma,"
and as She walked away, Amma exclaimed, "Yeah, I'm
hungry!"

In Amma's love,
Jyotsna





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com/


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
   Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:11:59 EDT
   From: sprose1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1202

In a message dated 6/8/04 5:06:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Ammachi@yahoogroups.com writes:


Dear Barbara:

Too bad for you that this issue we are discussing is in the newspapers! We,
as involved with Amma, cannot afford to not see it. Amma has commented upon
it and it is an issue to be grappled with. Sorry if this is not what you like
to hear. You, and others like you, would call for the "monitor" to silence
this discussion, just as the devotee wants to silence the critic, Pattathanam.
It is exactly what he is doing. You are doing the same thing, albeit not suing
us and jailing us. But the sentiment is the same. We are discussing an
ethical issue, and we are not resorting to insults or abuse of any kind, so the
analogy to snowballs and children is just your own maternalistic patronizing of
grown men, so stop it and grow up, please.Avram

> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 19:18:42 -0500
> From: Barbara Edmonds <edmondsb@indiana.edu>
> Subject: Monitor ???
>
> Namah Shivaya.....
> Where is the monitor for Ammachi@Yahoogroups.com......have not our
> brothers taken this entire topic TOOOOOO far ?
> Why speculate and argue over humankind................should we not be
> working toward spiritual matters.
>
> Please stop !!! Keval, Sprouse, Avram, &Avinash......please take your
> concerns to a private chat.......and do not disrupt those of us who
> prefer to stay our of your quarrels.
>
> I feel like I am again observing grade school playground time between
> the boys who are throwing bigger and bigger snow balls at each other,
> and no one knows which team they belong.....and there are many rocks in
> the middle of the snow balls.
>
>
> Amritavarshini

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
   Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 22:17:16 -0000
   From: "medshanti" <medshanti@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1201

To hopefully bring a peaceful end to this discussion:

Amma has is now quoted (below) on this subject and says she tried to
dissuade the Swami. Some like to consider such things, but this group
is not a place where such things are discussed without upsetting too
many people. The Amma Free Speech Zone Yahoo group, or other sites
discussing the pros and cons of such things, is the place where you
can discuss these issues, not here. Upsetting people by asking them
to consider such things here does nothing because nearly everyone
here never sees any problem and they do not come here to think about
such things. Personally, I value seeing Amma and reading some of what
is here, but these incidents and the attitudes of her followers have,
as you suggest, changed my and some others opinion on her, one reason
why I'm not seeing her this time. The nature of posts here have
disillusioned me and many others about taking Amma as a guru since to
me the actions of her followers and those here obviously reflect her
wishes in these actions, and her wish that no one question anything,
but making such statements here upsets people here and so I do not
intend to repeat this. For the record, Amma herself does seem to
realize these issues are damaging her on the outside and aren't going
to go away:

------------------------------------------
San Jose Mercury News:

"Asked about a controversial legal case in which a resident of her
main ashram in Kollam, India, had filed a defamation lawsuit seeking
criminal prosecution of a longtime critic of the sect, the guru said
she had tried to dissuade the plaintiff. But she added that the
critic had gone too far, making false claims that there had been
seven suspicious deaths at the Kollam ashram -- which houses more
than 2,000 people -- outraging residents and bereaved families.

``This has been very painful,'' Amritanandamayi said. The case has
not gone to trial. While she did not say whether she planned to
intervene, she said the critic, author Sreeni Pattathanam, ``won't go
to jail'' if he's convicted. (Pattathanam says the threat of criminal
prosecution violates his right to free speech.)"
-------------------------------------------
Again, this is my first and last post here on such matters unless
Amma herself comments further beyond what she has said or decides to
further intervene and request the Swami to desist. I do not want to
offend anyone further who does not understand why anyone would be
concerned, but considering what Amma herself has said, this needed to
be said.



--- In Ammachi@yahoogroups.com, sprose1@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 6/7/04 2:45:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> Ammachi@yahoogroups.com writes:
> Dear Avinash:
> I would like to respond herewith to your post. I do not want to
trouble this
> list with a protracted and contentious dialogue, so I will be to-
the -point
> only.
>
> > Dear Keval:
> >
> > I am not aware of the inner workings of the Hindu Fundamentalists
and Indian
> >
> > politics in general.
> >
> > Well, that should answer everything.
>
> -Not quite everything.
>
> >
> > What I am concerned about, however, is the on-going
> > prosecution of Sreeni Pattathanam, his publisher and editor, for
writing a
> > book
> > critical of Amma.
> >
> > Sreeni Pattathnam cristicism was written in 1985, so nothing is
new, Sreeni
> > is a typical Marxist.
>
> I believe it is the reprinting of the book a few years ago that
brought about
> the present troubles. I agree that the book is not new.
>
> >
> > It is actually a devotee, at Amritapuri, who has brought the
> > suit, but I doubt he would have done it against Her wishes.
> >
> > I would very much be interested to take part in that.
> >
> > Likewise, Head
> > Swami started a letter-writing campaign against this man,
> >
> > Everybody has right to defend themselves.
> >
> > which felt quite
> > threatening to him.
> >
> > That is his perspective always playing the role of "victim"
> >
> > Complaining that his book encroaches on religious faith, the
> > devotee is trying to use a rarely if ever-used law against
attacking
> > another's
> > religion. Those who died on Normandy defended the right to free
speech,
> > even
> > if it is untrue. If that is the case, then there are laws
against libel.
> > The
> > book in question is not available outside India. The men, Mr.
Zachariah
> > among
> > them, who argue that there are unsavory users around the guru,
are far from
> > fools;
> >
> > Dude you are too NAIVE. You need to understand Indian politics,
but can be
> > forgiven since you mentioned you are ignorant.
> >
> > Paul Zachariah is one freaking acid mouth Christian fanatic
> -that's very objective of you. So he can't speak without being
accused of
> breaking the law?
>
> who hails from Kerala. He writes reguraly for "Outlook", a
> Congress-Christain
> > magzine. His views are highly narrow minded and always against
Hinduism,
> > his oppostion against Ammachi is mainly Communal based.
>
> -And yet he still has the right to express his odious ideas.
>
> >
> > Pat Roberstson or Billy Graham's view about Ammachi would be much
better
> > that P Zachariah's.
> >
> > I do not know enough about politics to render a decision on this,
but I
> > do believe that people have a right to speak their minds, up to
the point of
> >
> > intentionally deceiving others.
> >
> > BUDDY WAKE UP. Cristicsm agianst Ammachi and Her movement has
long History,
> > it is not something new. Ammachi comes from state of Kerala,
Kerala had the
> > first democratically elected Communist Govt in the world.
> - I knew they were communist, but not that they were the first
democratically
> elected. Thank you for that.
>
> Since Marxism is against relegion and Hinduism is the majority
religion,
> Hinduism
> > is the primary target for Marxists and always at the recieving
end. It goes
> > like this "enemy of my enemy is my freind". Indian Marxists first
aim is to
> > clear Hinduism of India, then go after other minority religions,
as a result
> > is this alliance with Muslims and Christians( who pretty much
have their own
> > plans for India).
>
> -Well, the Marxists would have a long way to go in India, first
off. I
> repeat that, despite the desires of the Marxists and Rationalists
to reduce the
> influence of Amma, their right to spew forth their ideas is
sacrosanct. When, and
> if, they cross the lines of libel, the law should protect the
innocent. We
> cannot silence everything people say,even if they appear to be no
good. Am I
> naive in that? Why should they not have the right to say what they
want about
> Amma? Don't people have a right to love and hate, and to talk
about it? Some
> people love Reagan, and some hate Reagan. They both have the right
to speak
> here. The criticism of outsiders performs a useful role; it
balances the other
> side and keeps it from getting too insular. Checks and balances.
If they
> hate Amma, so be it! But, if they lie and slander Her, that's
another story,
> and there I agree it should be fought. If they disagree about
events and offer
> alternative hypotheses, then what right is there to take them to
court?
>
> >
> > Rationalists have written Articles, fliers,pamplets against
Ammachi form
> > 1970's, in fact these people threatend physical voilence against
devotees.
> > They lost their hold in 80's and 90's. Now with their new found
freinds the
> > Keralite Christians (who feel threatend with growing popularity
of Ammachi) are
> > comming into picture.
>
> - I am well aware of the earlier antagonism against the Ashram. I
am not in
> favor of them.
> >
> >
> > This scandal is going to hurt public
> > perception,
> >
> > No body will be hurt, I don't understand your concern.
>
> --Maybe you are the naive one, about the American public. But,
overall, I
> don't think it will be traumatic. I do know one friend who has
reluctantly
> decided that he cannot remain a devotee because of the prosecution
of Mr.
> Pattathanam.
>
> >
> > and the ashram will likely hide behind the unnamed devotee;
> >
> > WHAT THE HECK, his name is Amrtaswarup
> > - you don't mean the Swami Amrtaswarupananda, do you? I am
referring to the
> > one who is pushing the prosecution...
>
> and this is what he has written : �?oThe venomous mind of Zackaria
has been
> pouring
> > forth poison through his pen for quite some time now. He has
crossed the
> > lines of all decency. It is high time to respond to this evil
minded writer
> > befittingly. Amma's children should spring to action now. He
considers our
> > silence as weakness�?�. We should not let this extremely wicked
person harass our
> > most Beloved Amma who has offered Herself to the world. COME
ON.......LET US DO
> > IT NOW....GATHER AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU CAN...STOP KEEPING QUIET
TO THIS
> > ADHARMIC PERSON...�?�
> >
> > Nobody is hiding nothing.
>
> - If "nobody is hiding nothing" then why did they take this off the
website?
> My guess is that it was seen as an embarrassment, a faux pas. Sw.
> Swarupananda was behind this exploit.
>
> >
> >
> >
> > anyone who
> > knows the scene knows that nothing happens there without
authorization.
> >
> > I cannot
> > understand this and I am upset about it.
> >
> > You will never understand, and what I don't understand is your
irrational
> > upset.
> >
> > The teaching is love and
> > forgiveness, etc. The Rationalists are atheists who believe that
religion
> > holds people
> > back; its their conviction and they have a right to it. They
have a right
> > to
> > ask for investigation of deaths and other shadowy things, even if
we don't
> > exactly like it.
> >
> > Why persecute people for that, if your message is love and
> > forgiveness?
> >
> > GIVE ME A BREAK! No one is getting persecuted. No body is getting
lynched or
> > killed. No Ayotollahs or Mullah Omars in India.
>
> -You don't have to lynch someone; you can have him brought to
trial, and try
> to destroy his livelihood, credibility, etc.
>
> >
> > It's telling that Dayamrita says that Hinduism is not a religion,
let
> > alone Ammadom.
> >
> > You need to know basics, Hindusim is not a religion in the sense
like
> > Christianity, Islam, Judaism which claim exclusive rights for God.
> >
> > So, the argument that Mr. Pattathanam is guilty of attacking
> > religion is patently false,
> >
> > since the Ashram is registered as a charity,
> >
> > In India lines between religion and Charity does not exist.
Ramakrishna
> > Mission is a Hindu religious organisation that run schools and
charities, Kanchi
> > mutt is a religious body that runs Nethralaya,
> >
> > a temple first
> > of all, and that Ammaism is not a religion,
> >
> > There no such thing has "Ammaism" please stop phrasing new fancy,
cosmetic
> > terms.
> >
> >
> >
> > since even Hinduism is not a
> > religion.
> >
> > Yes Hinduism is not a religion in CONVENTIONAL SENSE.
> >
> > She wields a lot of power in Kerala, over police and
politicians.
> >
> > MAN, I cannot comprehend your point, what do mean by "weilds"
here. Do you
> > think Ammachi is going to start some political outfit or she
occupying some
> > country, if she "weilds" so much power as you cailm.
>
> --I am simply stating the fact that it is hard to go against her
wishes. For
> example, her father is accused of trying to take advantage of a
female
> devotee. He allegedly said that she would not be taken seriously,
since his daughter
> is Amma. Do you doubt that, out of respect, and fear, the police
and judicial
> system would look away if at all possible? Is that so far from
possibility?
>
>
> >
> >
> > I understand zealous defense of one's guru. But, the wisdom and
sense of the
> >
> > guru should intercede, not conspire with such zealotry. Remember
love and
> > forgiveness? Or, fight a fair fight. Show the truth against the
> > allegations.
> > Write a counter-book. but attacking the poor man like this is
shameful IMHO.
> > Avram
> >
> > Dear Avram, I consider you have poor understanding about many
issues here.
> > Weather Ammachi or Indian political situation. No body is
attacking the
> > writer, as I mentioned earlier it was wirtten way back in 1985.
He is entitled to
> > write what ever he likes or he does not like. All the cases where
closed long
> > back and none of the deaths where mysterious. You concern shows
as if some
> > one has issued a fatwa agianst the writer.
>
> -I am not in favor of the anti-Amma people. I simply don't like the
way he is
> being treated, i.e., prosecution for offending the religious
sensibilities of
> others. I think a higher road should be tread, such as responding
in honesty
> and truth. No, you will not change them, but you will affect the
larger
> public who is watching this play out.
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Karl Marx, a German Jew founded Marxism. He said "Religion is
opium of
> > masses". He based his ideology soley on Christianity and Judaism
(prevailing
> > religions in Europe during his time). Because these religions
require to have faith
> > in one particular book and in one particular god. However Marxism
never
> > applies to Hinduism, since there is no Pope, you can be atheist
too. But given
> > Inferiority complex, low Self Esteem Indians possess, they always
felt western
> > thinking is superior. Hence, there bewitchment with Marxism.
Hindusim is
> > routinely subjected to Marxsistic analysis. Indian arm chaired,
be-spectacled
> > Marxists take pride in their intellectual masturbation. As a
result there is a
> > confilct between religion and charity. Charity is nothing but
KARMA YOGA,
> > essence of Hinduism.
> >
> > In India I met too many Keralites (I am a Telugu)who swear,
verbally abuse
> > or use street lingo to describe Ammachi. Most of those terms, I
cannot write
> > on this forum. I expereinced worst form of verbal abuse against
ammachi and I
> > always disregarded them. Any new "written" crticsm will not
surprise me.
>
> - I don't defend the abuse. I defend their right to the abuse.
>
> >
> > I am seeing Ammachi since 1997. In United States itself I met her
4 times
> > and this summer its going to be fifth time. Whenever I see
ammachi, I tend to
> > stay in that particular place until Ammachi leaves that station.
I saw Ammachi
> > hugging blacks,browns, whites, orientals, beggars,crippled,
deformed, cats,
> > dogs, snakes, insects etc,who ever comes on her way. I have seen
that she
> > sits in one particular place for 20+ hours without going to
restroom, hugging
> > continously. She is doing this for many years, personally for me
Fisrt hand
> > experience is atleast 7 years, and I AM CONVINCED BEYOND BELIEF
that Ammachi is
> > extraordinary, mind you I nurtured this notion with my experience
gained from
> > my OWN EYES, NOT FROM THIRD PARTY ACCOUNT. Sreeni Pattathanam or
some other
> > Tom, Dick and Harry are not going to change my conviction, I am
not surprised
> > by their critiscm, and I will not be suprised if some other
person comes
> > with a new cristicsm in feautre.
>
> --What I would like is to read what these men are saying. I want to
hear
> their side. Is that a crime?
>
> >
> > Avram,You need to focus on Ammachi and undersatnd Ammachi. What
kind faith
> > is that, if it wanes for some dude's perspective. How does it
matter, if one
> > one thinks or does not think about Ammachi.There are 6 billion
people on this
> > planet and they write thousand things. I THINK WE SHOULD PONDER
ABOUT OUR
> > RELATIONSHIP ABOUT AMMACHI.
>
> --I know you don't get this, but I AM pondering my relationship
with Amma.
>
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Avinash.
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 7
   Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 15:46:00 -0700 (PDT)
   From: Girish <girish_srv@yahoo.com>
Subject: MEDITATE WHILE YOU WORK (28)

MEDITATE WHILE YOU WORK : A NEW PATH FOR A NEW AGE (28)
                         Swami Ashokananda
 
    If you say, 'That is a rather high philosphy for the common
man to understand', his answer was that man is divine and so when
you call him God he responds. He does not have to go through learned
tomes of philosophy to be convinced of his divinity. If he were not
divine, all these learned tomes would only mislead him; but if he is
divine, he doesn't have to be given any argument. He has only to be
told the truth with a sincere voice - not from the lips alone, but
from the heart. That is what is wanted. If I have not experienced the
truth within myself, my voice would not carry conviction to anybody
else. But if I have felt this truth of the eternity, the immortality,
the vastness, the wonderfulness of my own being, if I have felt I am
the fearless one, the free one and that whatever the external conditions
might be, nothing in the entire universe, gods, or men or devils, would
be ever able to affect me - if I have felt this truth, then my voice will
have a ring which will awaken the echo of the same truth in the hearts
of others. And Swami Vivekananda wanted us to go with that truth from door
to door and tell it to everyone.

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Message: 8
   Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 19:16:00 -0400
   From: "Dixie Thacker" <dixielou@surfbest.net>
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1202


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: sprose1@aol.com
  To: Ammachi@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 6:11 PM
  Subject: Re: [Ammachi] Digest Number 1202
  Namaste, Avram and others,

  What has Mother had to say about the situation? I am completely on the fence about this one: I don't want anyone to criticize my Holy Mother, but I think that's purely from my own feeling of protectiveness towards Her. Sort of that old "Hurt me? If you have to. Hurt someone I love? Don't even think about it!"

  The one thing I am trying to keep in mind is that I've read somewhere that Amma beseeches us not to get angry in the name of religion. I'm not being naive about the damage that this type of thing can cause, but I feel so insignificant in the face of challenges like these - how can anything I say add or detract one speck from Mother's glory?

  Not exactly the same subject, but I am surprised at my complete lack of interest in "witnessing" for Amma and, similarly, I have not felt the slightest urge to encourage even my dearest friends to meet Mother - having been raised Christian, it feels odd to not want to 'encourage' others along these lines, but I have a deep, deep sense that those who are to be with Amma will find their own way to Her. Or hear Her call, I don't which it is.

  Talk about muddled.

  At Mother's Feet with Love,
  Dixie

  PS. Jyotsna, dear Sister, I was at the retreat with you in
          spiritually, but another sister physically helped you
          with registration. (-:



  In a message dated 6/8/04 5:06:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
  Ammachi@yahoogroups.com writes:


  Dear Barbara:

  Too bad for you that this issue we are discussing is in the newspapers! We,
  as involved with Amma, cannot afford to not see it. Amma has commented upon
  it and it is an issue to be grappled with. Sorry if this is not what you like
  to hear. You, and others like you, would call for the "monitor" to silence
  this discussion, just as the devotee wants to silence the critic, Pattathanam.
  It is exactly what he is doing. You are doing the same thing, albeit not suing
  us and jailing us. But the sentiment is the same. We are discussing an
  ethical issue, and we are not resorting to insults or abuse of any kind, so the
  analogy to snowballs and children is just your own maternalistic patronizing of
  grown men, so stop it and grow up, please.Avram

  > Message: 4
  > Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 19:18:42 -0500
  > From: Barbara Edmonds <edmondsb@indiana.edu>
  > Subject: Monitor ???
  >
  > Namah Shivaya.....
  > Where is the monitor for Ammachi@Yahoogroups.com......have not our
  > brothers taken this entire topic TOOOOOO far ?
  > Why speculate and argue over humankind................should we not be
  > working toward spiritual matters.
  >
  > Please stop !!! Keval, Sprouse, Avram, &Avinash......please take your
  > concerns to a private chat.......and do not disrupt those of us who
  > prefer to stay our of your quarrels.
  >
  > I feel like I am again observing grade school playground time between
  > the boys who are throwing bigger and bigger snow balls at each other,
  > and no one knows which team they belong.....and there are many rocks in
  > the middle of the snow balls.
  >
  >
  > Amritavarshini

  >



  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



  Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!


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Message: 9
   Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:02:34 -0700 (PDT)
   From: "E. Lamb" <jyotsna2@yahoo.com>
Subject: P.S.

PS. Jyotsna, dear Sister, I was at the retreat with
you in
          spiritually, but another sister physically
helped you
          with registration. (-:

Yes, Snehalata, it was "Seattle Snehalata" who
toiled at the retreat!

Jyotsna






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Message: 10
   Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:03:44 -0700 (PDT)
   From: Brianna Mosteller <rubyrapunzel@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1202

Hi all,

This discussion brought to mind the following quote:

"Children, if someone asks about our lifestyle, our
reply should be: 'Doesn't each of us act for his or
her own peace and happiness? We see mental peace in
this life-style. Why should you question our basic
values? You seek happiness far and wide. See how much
money you spend on luxeries, on intoxicants and on
things you don't really need! Why should you feel
upset if we go to our ashram or show interest in
spiritual matters?' We should develop the strength to
speak openly like that. Don't be timid. Be bold. We
should lead our lives nurturing our spiritual heritage
within us."
            -Amma, from "Immortal Light"

It seems like every spiritual and/or religious path
known to man becomes subject to the attacks of others.
Amma has, of course, been slandered many times. I
don't think She wants us to silence the critics, as
I've seen other gurus do. In fact, I once asked Her
how to deal with my doubts, and Her reply was that the
only way to overcome doubt is to question and question
until we no longer have that doubt. Then we can let go
and begin to surrender, and with surrender comes
faith.

One thing I'd like to add; the devotees are not
representatives of Amma. She doesn't ask us to speak
on Her behalf, and Amma should not be judged by the
behavior of Her devotees. A LOT of people consider
themselves devotees or disciples, but we've got to be
careful about blaming the actions of one on the whole.
In fact, I'd say the majority of negative things I've
heard about Mother are actually people's complaints
about specific devotees.

What I think is that no matter who you are, someone
somewhere is bound to think you're completely screwed
up, though you may be spotless in your own eyes. As
followers of a well-known guru, we are bound to get
some fingers pointed at us. It can be confusing. My
suggestion to all is to honor your doubts by being
knowledgable, to be strong and informed, and to
remember to keep an open heart.

love,

Brianna

P.S. I'm personally not offended by the topic. I agree
that people should have the right to speak against
Amma, even though it makes me sad and sometimes angry.


--- Dixie Thacker <dixielou@surfbest.net> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: sprose1@aol.com
> To: Ammachi@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 6:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ammachi] Digest Number 1202
> Namaste, Avram and others,
>
> What has Mother had to say about the situation? I
> am completely on the fence about this one: I don't
> want anyone to criticize my Holy Mother, but I think
> that's purely from my own feeling of protectiveness
> towards Her. Sort of that old "Hurt me? If you have
> to. Hurt someone I love? Don't even think about
> it!"
>
> The one thing I am trying to keep in mind is that
> I've read somewhere that Amma beseeches us not to
> get angry in the name of religion. I'm not being
> naive about the damage that this type of thing can
> cause, but I feel so insignificant in the face of
> challenges like these - how can anything I say add
> or detract one speck from Mother's glory?
>
> Not exactly the same subject, but I am surprised
> at my complete lack of interest in "witnessing" for
> Amma and, similarly, I have not felt the slightest
> urge to encourage even my dearest friends to meet
> Mother - having been raised Christian, it feels odd
> to not want to 'encourage' others along these lines,
> but I have a deep, deep sense that those who are to
> be with Amma will find their own way to Her. Or
> hear Her call, I don't which it is.
>
> Talk about muddled.
>
> At Mother's Feet with Love,
> Dixie
>
> PS. Jyotsna, dear Sister, I was at the retreat
> with you in
> spiritually, but another sister physically
> helped you
> with registration. (-:
>
>
>
> In a message dated 6/8/04 5:06:56 PM Pacific
> Daylight Time,
> Ammachi@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
>
> Dear Barbara:
>
> Too bad for you that this issue we are discussing
> is in the newspapers! We,
> as involved with Amma, cannot afford to not see
> it. Amma has commented upon
> it and it is an issue to be grappled with. Sorry
> if this is not what you like
> to hear. You, and others like you, would call for
> the "monitor" to silence
> this discussion, just as the devotee wants to
> silence the critic, Pattathanam.
> It is exactly what he is doing. You are doing the
> same thing, albeit not suing
> us and jailing us. But the sentiment is the same.
> We are discussing an
> ethical issue, and we are not resorting to insults
> or abuse of any kind, so the
> analogy to snowballs and children is just your own
> maternalistic patronizing of
> grown men, so stop it and grow up, please.Avram
>
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 19:18:42 -0500
> > From: Barbara Edmonds <edmondsb@indiana.edu>
> > Subject: Monitor ???
> >
> > Namah Shivaya.....
> > Where is the monitor for
> Ammachi@Yahoogroups.com......have not our
> > brothers taken this entire topic TOOOOOO far ?
> > Why speculate and argue over
> humankind................should we not be
> > working toward spiritual matters.
> >
> > Please stop !!! Keval, Sprouse, Avram,
> &Avinash......please take your
> > concerns to a private chat.......and do not
> disrupt those of us who
> > prefer to stay our of your quarrels.
> >
> > I feel like I am again observing grade school
> playground time between
> > the boys who are throwing bigger and bigger snow
> balls at each other,
> > and no one knows which team they belong.....and
> there are many rocks in
> > the middle of the snow balls.
> >
> >
> > Amritavarshini
>
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
>
> Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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>
>
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>


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Message: 11
   Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:07:30 -0700 (PDT)
   From: Gabriela Rios <gabriela1027@yahoo.com>
Subject: Q&A Swami debate with Amma

Namah Shivaya,

Jyotsna mentioned the heated debated between Amma and
Swamiji in response to the question about how we can
get answers to questions we have for Amma when we are
not always with her.

Does anyone who was there know what the debate was
about? Any Malayalam speakers happen to overhear? I
wanted to ask Amma the same question, so I am
intensely curious what they said.




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Message: 12
   Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 01:45:15 -0000
   From: "chembalacnair" <chembalacnair@yahoo.com>
Subject: AMMA SAYS - APHORISM

OM AMRITESWARYAI NAMAH

AMMA SAYS:

"Death of the ego leads you to deathlessness."

::

Amma Sharanam
May all the beings in all the worlds be peaceful and happy.



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 13
   Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 01:54:36 -0000
   From: "chembalacnair" <chembalacnair@yahoo.com>
Subject: AMMA SAYS - STORIES & JOKES

OM AMRITESWARYAI NAMAH

AMMA SAYS - STORY

The old man and the mango trees

"There is a story about a old man who was planting mango saplings.
When his neighbor saw what he was doing, he came to him and
said, 'Do you think you will live long enough for these saplings to
become trees and bear fruit for you to taste?'

'No, I doubt it,' replied the old man.

'Then why are you wasting your time?' asked the neighbor.

The old man smiled and said, 'All my life I have enjoyed eating
mangoes from trees that have been planted by others. This is my way
of expressing my thankfulness to the people who planted those trees'.
::
AMMA SHARANAM



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 14
   Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:49:39 -0700 (PDT)
   From: smith john <noothername2001@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: AMMA SAYS - APHORISM

thank you. The ego Debates...

chembalacnair <chembalacnair@yahoo.com> wrote:OM AMRITESWARYAI NAMAH

AMMA SAYS:

"Death of the ego leads you to deathlessness."

::

Amma Sharanam
May all the beings in all the worlds be peaceful and happy.



Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!


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Why should you lose your mobile

 
 1. You don't have to check your pocket every time you move out of your room.
2. You don't have to check if it's yours every time you hear a mobile ring.

3. You don't have to worry whether your mobile would embarass you during a movie or a performance.

4. You don't have to think of ways to avoid when you get a call from someone you don't want to attend to.

5. You don't have to make sure you have the mobile with you when coming out of a shop or a theatre.

6. You don't have to bother to switch it off when you are with that special somebody (and worry whether I'd miss any important calls)...

In short, I am feeling relieved now that I have lost my mobile:) And what more, my parents tell me that now they'd write to me more often because they can't get me on mobile. What more could one ask for?

Couple on the bike.......

 
 When u travel in a car and are not at the wheel you land up having a lot of time to do a lot of things. For one, you land up reading all the advertising hoardings�aloud for the benefit of those driving! Secondly you start observing the way people are seated on their two wheelers. Couples in particular have their own ways and means of sitting on the 2 feet by 10 inches seat. After careful observation and much deliberation I can safely say that they can be classified as follows:
The Leech: This is normally the couple who look like they have been stuck together and have become one with each other. The age group for this type of people varies between 18 and 24. Seated astride, the girl bites the ear of the rider even as she murmurs sweet nothings. The hands from behind go round the male in the front in a vicious death like grip�.no escaping this one!! What is also noticeable is the way the brakes are applied with alarming regularity. Guess it has something to do with the head-on collision�er�head did I say???(Shall leave it for the imagination to decipher what exactly collides!)

The Snail: The newly married come under this category. Everything is one sweet snail pace for them. No hurry to get back home to the maddening crowd. They have their nth honeymoon on the bike. They cootchie coo, drive well on the left hand side of the road�allow the world to pass them by�. giggle and laugh and generally have fun! The girl’s arms snake round her husbands trim waist�.it is a show of ownership�of acceptance�of defiance�of ‘I am now married to him..so what can you do’ ..attitude.

The Kangaroo: Children are found at every possible nook and corner of the seating arrangement. The perch on the petrol tank, they hang from the lap, they get sandwiched flat between the parents, some even manage to hang on their dear lives on the edge of the seat or on the carriage!! Babes in arms dangle freely from their mother’s grips, their tiny feet and arms bobbing up and down on every bump and speed breaker. The faces of the parents are next to grim now��.she for having to put up with this kind of tortured travel and he for wondering when did the transition take place forcing him to become a transportation officer.

The Crab: A good fifteen years after marriage��.with children not sandwiched the hand now lies on the thigh of the rider�..the paunch occupies too much space and the arms can go round no more! The lady has not only been cooking up food�she has also partaken of the generous spread that has made them grow together in size as well!! The weight of the body acts as a balance and the bike sails on like a ship with a strong anchor! The hand on the lap is now a sure sign that they have been married for more than a while now. The pillion rider knows how to balance with ease. The lady behind is no longer stuck nor astride but instead is perpendicular to the rider! The rider knows what pot hole to avoid and how to cross the speed breaker. Also by now the rider no longer rides straight. He does a crab like imitation and goes sideways slides around and generally disappears!!

The Hermit: 40 years and going strong��.in the marriage I mean. Physically the man is just about able to kick start after a while. The lady waits patiently. Once the bike is on, she asks for confirmation before seating her self. Never know when the two of them are likely to lose balance! He then plods on oblivious to the blaring horns, the snide remarks, the traffic lights. The bike moves and they go places. Now the driving is done more from behind than the front. “Watch out for the approaching car!” “You are too close to the bus.” “Why are you inching your way????” “You just drove through the red light!” “Are you sure you are feeling OK??” “ I told you���.” Sigh!!

Like I said it is more fun watching the world go by!!

Tullz

Lost and Found!!
 
 Lost:
� 3 Lays Chips giant packs
� 6pcs. Black Forest pastries
� 2 Cr�me �clairs
� 4pcs. of Mysore Pak
� 6 whorls of murrukku
� 1 tub of Popcorn
� a once upon a time 24" waistline

Found:

� An extra inch around the most obvious places
� 6 lbs on the weighing scale
� 3 sizes bigger garments
� Peace and contentment!!

Tullz

Google Mail (gmail)- whats in it for me?
 
 After having used gmail for more than a month, my analysis is that it would become a run away success the moment it is thrown open to public and no 1 GB of space is not the only reason contrary to popular prerception ..


Some reasons -

Of course the 1000 MB account storage space is a big breater but this is only the beginning.

The most important feature I find is self - updation .. ie. If u have left the page open, it will continue to refresh itself and you immediatly get to see if new mails have arrived ..

Second is that it tends to list emails not in the chronological order .. but as a threaded discussion .. The system is not flawless and some of the orders are disturbed . but over all a workable solution ..

Last is the speed. Since it relies heavily on Javascript, it dosent really relly require to reload the entire page for refreshing content ..

I have found that its junk filter to be pretty effective ..

It autmoatically saves all the email ids to which u have sent mails in the contact list ..

Labelling and classification of mails is pretty cool .. though it may take some time to get used to the concept .. Its a step ahead of the usual folder concept ..


So while it may be easy for Yahoo and Lycos to give additional free storage space .. it will require a lot of effort to think of and implement such innovative features ..

And I wonder where hotmail goes after this ? Inbuilt hotmail account for users in Longhorn ? (with hard drive as storage space )

;o)

ps - will write about the privacy issues raised by people later .

There is 1 message in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Yoga class for beginners - June 2004
           From: Rakesh Nair <kmrnair@yahoo.com>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 23:25:41 -0700 (PDT)
   From: Rakesh Nair <kmrnair@yahoo.com>
Subject: Yoga class for beginners - June 2004


www.sivananda.org.my

                                  YOGA

                                     (2 Months Hatha Yoga Course)

                                            Sivananda Ashram

         Hatha Yoga Class for Beginners

                                              (Stage 1)

                           Proper Exercise



Proper Breathing

 Proper Relaxation

Limited Place

Class will be held every Saturday.

Start Date: 16 June 2004

Time: 4.30 pm - 6.00 pm

Venue: Sivanandashram Hall, Batu Caves, Selangor (DLS)

For details and registration, please call / sms:

Mr. Rakesh : 012-2145534

The course covers a series of basic yogic exercises (surya namaskar & asanas), flexibility exercises, proper breathing techniques (pranayama) and relaxation techniques




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Hard News - India
... What was this woman hiding be-hind the most poker face in contemporary
Indian politics? Was she afraid - for herself, for her children, for
her sanity? ...
<http://www.hardnewsmedia.com/june2004/cstory1.php>;

BJP warhorses deride Cong Turks
Times of India - India
NEW DELHI: The BJP is scoffing at the dynastic "infant Congress," but party
leaders are now wondering exactly how old is "old" in Indian politics.
...
<http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll...eshow/725756.cms>;

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Religion, which is eternal, is the property of all people. Any attempt to remove its influence from the masses will be futile. Faith in the immanance of God is soaked in every individual and cannot be removed from him. The common factor in all religions is the belief that there exists in it Transcendental Truth.

Religious literature has played an important role in the spread of Bhakti ever since man started to communicate with his fellow-beings. The Vedas, puranas and epics made people aware of the significance of dharma in their everyday life. Later the bhakti movement which changed the outlook of our spiritual concepts and helped to emerge a new social order spread the message of love and discipline in every walk of life.

Tirumala Tirupati Devasthanams which champions the cause of sanatana Dharma have taken several steps to carry the message enshrined in our scriptures across the length and breadth of this vast land. Apart from being engaged in multifarious activites like providing amenities to the pilgrims, maintaining orderly darsan and conducting pujas and sevas in accordance with the agamic traditions, the Devasthanam has also made forays into world of religious publications in a big vay.

These books on a wide range of subjects like the vedas, sastras, agamas and traditional art and architecture continue to enjoy wide popularity among the discerning public. The TTD's main accent has always been on encouraging the study of sacred scriptures and imbibe the teachings of the acharyas so that the people can attune their lives toward spiritual fulfilment. The sapient sages who unravelled the mystery of life and guided us along the path of enlightenment have demonstrated that man can attain fulness and enjoy peace and happiness only by leading a spiritual life. Taking the cue from the ancient rishis and their words of wisdom, T.T.Devasthanams launched 'sapthagiri' three decades ago.

The journal published in five languages is aimed at providing an insight into the culture and philosophy of this blessed country. The journal serves as a window to our priceless heritage and ethos.

On the thirty fourth year of its publication 'Saptagiri' reassures its readers that it will continue to propagate the basic tenets of Hinduism and focus on various activities of T.T.Devasthanams.

In this regard, we sincerely appeal to our readers to introduce the journal among their friends and relations so that its message can reach a wider audience.

------------------------
There are 11 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: Re: Namah Shivayah!!
           From: "Dixie Thacker" <dixielou@surfbest.net>
      2. Re: critical article in Mercury news; reply to Digest Number 1199
           From: "Aikya Param" <aikya@yahoo.com>
      3. Re: Digest Number 1201
           From: sprose1@aol.com
      4. Monitor ???
           From: Barbara Edmonds <edmondsb@indiana.edu>
      5. AMMA SAYS - APHORISM
           From: "chembalacnair" <chembalacnair@yahoo.com>
      6. AMMA SAYS - STORIES & JOKES
           From: "chembalacnair" <chembalacnair@yahoo.com>
      7. Re: Monitor ???
           From: Mike Brooker <patria1818@yahoo.com>
      8. Seattle Retreat
           From: "E. Lamb" <jyotsna2@yahoo.com>
      9. faith and doubt
           From: "Amalia Darling" <AmaliaDarling@hotmail.com>
     10. MEDITATE WHILE YOU WORK (27)
           From: Girish <girish_srv@yahoo.com>
     11. Airport
           From: "E. Lamb" <jyotsna2@yahoo.com>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 18:23:39 -0400
   From: "Dixie Thacker" <dixielou@surfbest.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Namah Shivayah!!


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: childofdevi
  To: Ammachi@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 4:27 PM
  Subject: [Ammachi] Re: Namah Shivayah!!
  Brianna,

  I second yogaman's wishes and congrats wholeheartedly!
  Enjoy! Enjoy! Enjoy!

  Love,
  Snehalata


  Brianna:

  Happy birthday and Congrajulations on your new job! It looks like
  Amma is taking good care of you.

  -yogaman


  --- In Ammachi@yahoogroups.com, Brianna Mosteller <rubyrapunzel@y...>
  wrote:
  > Namah Shivayah,
  >
  > Numerous mixed blessings to report. I've missed this
  > list (and others) over the last few weeks as my life
  > has been leaping toward uncharted territory. Got a job
  > that I've been wanting for six months (hooray! hard
  > times are fading away!), but at the expense of my
  > summer tour plans to blissfully follow Mother
  > throughout this country. I will still get to do the LA
  > retreat, though, and I am so excited to see Her and be
  > swept up in Her arms.
  >
  > I've been moving, working 50 and 60 hours a week, and
  > haven't been consistant with mantra, I AM, and other
  > sadhanas. I'm pretty stressed, but am carefully
  > restructuring my schedule to include daily sadhana.
  > It's interesting to me that this time I don't feel
  > guilty or worried about drifting, I just noticed the
  > distance and began making my way back. It reminds me
  > of learning the Ujayi breath in yoga. When we lose the
  > breath, we try to just come back to it without
  > self-judgement or worry. Just observe the change in
  > focus, and come back to the breath.
  >
  > I feel so grateful and unhurried. Something has
  > changed. I'm not grasping, rushing, and crashing
  > through each day anymore. I turned 24 on friday and
  > had a really fantastic birthday.
  >
  > I hope everyone is doing well. I want to thank you
  > guys for your love and support. I hope to be more
  > active here soon, and I want to hear all about summer
  > tour!
  >
  > pranams and hugs to all,
  >
  > Brianna
  >
  >
  >
  > =====
  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sarvabhauma_yoga/
  >
  >
  > __________________________________________________
  > Do You Yahoo!?
  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
  > http://mail.yahoo.com



  Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!


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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 23:15:34 -0000
   From: "Aikya Param" <aikya@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: critical article in Mercury news; reply to Digest Number 1199

At an event at New College of California on Saturday evening, at
least 4 people came up to me to tell me that there was an article
about Amma on the front page of the San Jose Mercuty News. They
looked quite happy about it and thought I would be happy to see it.
Amma made the front page! Obviously they had not read it yet.We
should all write letters to the editor and send them to the Merc.

People who know one of us have another window to Amma. They know
our character. Most people who know me also know that anyone who
does anything worthwhile will be met with resistance or opposition
in some form. No doubt we will hear more about and from Dayamrita
Swami about this. Hopefully the reporter didn't put words in his
mouth, but it wouldn't be the first time a reporter did that.

Obviously the reporter didn't know much about Amma and he surely
didn't know anything about Kerala.

What other religious leaders have made the front page of the San
Jose Mercuty News?

Aikya

--- In Ammachi@yahoogroups.com, "saramj33" <saramj33@y...> wrote:
> Hari Om
>
> Dear List members,
>
> an article with a critical tone has been published in the Saturday
> edition of the San Jose Mercury News entitled ,
> "Guru's bliss-inducing embraces have fans and critics",
> By Karl Schoenberger Mercury News .
>
> I have read the article and it is very biased and not objective.
> There are many false statements in the article.
> In the article it is claimed that Amma's organization has
unhealthy
> ties to Hindu fundamentalists, and that in Kerala a person cannot
> be a critic of Amma. This is not true.
> The article quotes " Joe Szimhart, a veteran deprogrammer
> and cult counselor" , saying ``Whether she has holiness is beside
> the point. People are going to feel her charisma and experience
> something ecstatic.''
>
> These are a few points from me. The author has obviously not spent
a
> lot of time in India with Hindu fundamentalists.
> Also, the author of the critical book of Amma, from Kerala , that
is
> mentioned in the article, is a member of the "rationalist" group
in
> Kerala. In years past, members of this group have tried to harm
Amma
> and Her devotees in many ways, and that includes physical attacks.
>
> 1. Amma is doing so many things that really rock the boat big time
> with strict Hindu fundamentalists. Any journalist who attended
> AV 50 in Cochin, or read the reports from it would understand this.
> For example:
> a. Amma has publicly criticized the dowry system in India.
> b. Amma looks at everyone the same no matter what caste,
> religion ( or lack of religion), or skin color.
> c. Amma has lady swaminis officiating at ceremonies.
>
> 2. The president of India, the honorable Dr.A.P.J. Kollam, is a
> devotee of Amma, and gave a speech at AV 50. He is a devout
Muslim.
> Other dignitaries from the many different religions and the
> different political parties of India attended gave speeches at AV
> 50.
>
> 3. I attended AV 50 and stayed at the Casino hotel in Cochin. Most
> of the people I met who worked at the hotel were Christians. I
> learned this from them: that the people of Kerala pride themselves
> on being tolerant and respectful of different religions, no matter
> what their own beliefs were. They had respect for
> Amma, but Amma was not their way, and that was fine.
> I might add that in Cochin I was woken up every morning around
5
> AM by the morning call to prayer being broadcast over a
loudspeaker
> from a nearby mosque.
>
> Falsehood:
> 4. This statement, in the article, is attributed to Sw. Dayamrita:
>
> ``I'd say 60 percent of the people who come to see her think she's
> fake,'' he said.
> Dayamrita is a former documentary filmmaker who originally sought
> out the guru nine years ago to expose her ``fake miracles and
> healings.'' But he joined Amritanandamayi in the monastic life
after
> witnessing the guru lick the open wounds of an elderly leper
before
> embracing him.``Even today I'm not convinced 100 percent,'' he
said,
> ``but I'm always amazed by her actions.''
>
> Nine years ago would be 1995. Amma's darshan with Dattan, the
leper,
> happened in the 1980's, I think; surely before 1993. So, if Swami
> Dayamrita first came to Amma only 9 years ago he could not have
> personally witnessed this event.
>
> The author of this article is distorting facts about Amma and Her
> life to for his own dishonorable purpose.
>
> Amma's words:
> "God is compassion and love. Compassion and love -- those are the
> two things the world needs. There are many people who don't get
> love. As for compassion, is there any person in this world who has
> not sinned? That's what Christ also said, isn't it? To me,
> compassion is forgiving, compassion is giving people even when
they
> don't deserve. "
>
> "I believe in love. Not fundamentalism. "
>
>
>
> Lokah samastaha sukino bhavantu
> Lokah samastaha sukino bhavantu
> Lokah samastaha sukino bhavantu
> Om shanti shanti shanti Om
>
> In Amma,
> Sara J.



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 19:18:00 EDT
   From: sprose1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1201

In a message dated 6/7/04 2:45:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Ammachi@yahoogroups.com writes:
Dear Avinash:
I would like to respond herewith to your post. I do not want to trouble this
list with a protracted and contentious dialogue, so I will be to- the -point
only.

> Dear Keval:
>
> I am not aware of the inner workings of the Hindu Fundamentalists and Indian
>
> politics in general.
>
> Well, that should answer everything.

-Not quite everything.

>
> What I am concerned about, however, is the on-going
> prosecution of Sreeni Pattathanam, his publisher and editor, for writing a
> book
> critical of Amma.
>
> Sreeni Pattathnam cristicism was written in 1985, so nothing is new, Sreeni
> is a typical Marxist.

I believe it is the reprinting of the book a few years ago that brought about
the present troubles. I agree that the book is not new.

>
> It is actually a devotee, at Amritapuri, who has brought the
> suit, but I doubt he would have done it against Her wishes.
>
> I would very much be interested to take part in that.
>
> Likewise, Head
> Swami started a letter-writing campaign against this man,
>
> Everybody has right to defend themselves.
>
> which felt quite
> threatening to him.
>
> That is his perspective always playing the role of "victim"
>
> Complaining that his book encroaches on religious faith, the
> devotee is trying to use a rarely if ever-used law against attacking
> another's
> religion. Those who died on Normandy defended the right to free speech,
> even
> if it is untrue. If that is the case, then there are laws against libel.
> The
> book in question is not available outside India. The men, Mr. Zachariah
> among
> them, who argue that there are unsavory users around the guru, are far from
> fools;
>
> Dude you are too NAIVE. You need to understand Indian politics, but can be
> forgiven since you mentioned you are ignorant.
>
> Paul Zachariah is one freaking acid mouth Christian fanatic
-that's very objective of you. So he can't speak without being accused of
breaking the law?

 who hails from Kerala. He writes reguraly for "Outlook", a
Congress-Christain
> magzine. His views are highly narrow minded and always against Hinduism,
> his oppostion against Ammachi is mainly Communal based.

-And yet he still has the right to express his odious ideas.

>
> Pat Roberstson or Billy Graham's view about Ammachi would be much better
> that P Zachariah's.
>
> I do not know enough about politics to render a decision on this, but I
> do believe that people have a right to speak their minds, up to the point of
>
> intentionally deceiving others.
>
> BUDDY WAKE UP. Cristicsm agianst Ammachi and Her movement has long History,
> it is not something new. Ammachi comes from state of Kerala, Kerala had the
> first democratically elected Communist Govt in the world.
- I knew they were communist, but not that they were the first democratically
elected. Thank you for that.

Since Marxism is against relegion and Hinduism is the majority religion,
Hinduism
> is the primary target for Marxists and always at the recieving end. It goes
> like this "enemy of my enemy is my freind". Indian Marxists first aim is to
> clear Hinduism of India, then go after other minority religions, as a result
> is this alliance with Muslims and Christians( who pretty much have their own
> plans for India).

-Well, the Marxists would have a long way to go in India, first off. I
repeat that, despite the desires of the Marxists and Rationalists to reduce the
influence of Amma, their right to spew forth their ideas is sacrosanct. When, and
if, they cross the lines of libel, the law should protect the innocent. We
cannot silence everything people say,even if they appear to be no good. Am I
naive in that? Why should they not have the right to say what they want about
Amma? Don't people have a right to love and hate, and to talk about it? Some
people love Reagan, and some hate Reagan. They both have the right to speak
here. The criticism of outsiders performs a useful role; it balances the other
side and keeps it from getting too insular. Checks and balances. If they
hate Amma, so be it! But, if they lie and slander Her, that's another story,
and there I agree it should be fought. If they disagree about events and offer
alternative hypotheses, then what right is there to take them to court?

>
> Rationalists have written Articles, fliers,pamplets against Ammachi form
> 1970's, in fact these people threatend physical voilence against devotees.
> They lost their hold in 80's and 90's. Now with their new found freinds the
> Keralite Christians (who feel threatend with growing popularity of Ammachi) are
> comming into picture.

- I am well aware of the earlier antagonism against the Ashram. I am not in
favor of them.
>
>
> This scandal is going to hurt public
> perception,
>
> No body will be hurt, I don't understand your concern.

--Maybe you are the naive one, about the American public. But, overall, I
don't think it will be traumatic. I do know one friend who has reluctantly
decided that he cannot remain a devotee because of the prosecution of Mr.
Pattathanam.

>
> and the ashram will likely hide behind the unnamed devotee;
>
> WHAT THE HECK, his name is Amrtaswarup
> - you don't mean the Swami Amrtaswarupananda, do you? I am referring to the
> one who is pushing the prosecution...

and this is what he has written : “The venomous mind of Zackaria has been
pouring
> forth poison through his pen for quite some time now. He has crossed the
> lines of all decency. It is high time to respond to this evil minded writer
> befittingly. Amma's children should spring to action now. He considers our
> silence as weakness�. We should not let this extremely wicked person harass our
> most Beloved Amma who has offered Herself to the world. COME ON.......LET US DO
> IT NOW....GATHER AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU CAN...STOP KEEPING QUIET TO THIS
> ADHARMIC PERSON...”
>
> Nobody is hiding nothing.

- If "nobody is hiding nothing" then why did they take this off the website?
My guess is that it was seen as an embarrassment, a faux pas. Sw.
Swarupananda was behind this exploit.

>
>
>
> anyone who
> knows the scene knows that nothing happens there without authorization.
>
> I cannot
> understand this and I am upset about it.
>
> You will never understand, and what I don't understand is your irrational
> upset.
>
> The teaching is love and
> forgiveness, etc. The Rationalists are atheists who believe that religion
> holds people
> back; its their conviction and they have a right to it. They have a right
> to
> ask for investigation of deaths and other shadowy things, even if we don't
> exactly like it.
>
> Why persecute people for that, if your message is love and
> forgiveness?
>
> GIVE ME A BREAK! No one is getting persecuted. No body is getting lynched or
> killed. No Ayotollahs or Mullah Omars in India.

-You don't have to lynch someone; you can have him brought to trial, and try
to destroy his livelihood, credibility, etc.

>
> It's telling that Dayamrita says that Hinduism is not a religion, let
> alone Ammadom.
>
> You need to know basics, Hindusim is not a religion in the sense like
> Christianity, Islam, Judaism which claim exclusive rights for God.
>
> So, the argument that Mr. Pattathanam is guilty of attacking
> religion is patently false,
>
> since the Ashram is registered as a charity,
>
> In India lines between religion and Charity does not exist. Ramakrishna
> Mission is a Hindu religious organisation that run schools and charities, Kanchi
> mutt is a religious body that runs Nethralaya,
>
> a temple first
> of all, and that Ammaism is not a religion,
>
> There no such thing has "Ammaism" please stop phrasing new fancy, cosmetic
> terms.
>
>
>
> since even Hinduism is not a
> religion.
>
> Yes Hinduism is not a religion in CONVENTIONAL SENSE.
>
> She wields a lot of power in Kerala, over police and politicians.
>
> MAN, I cannot comprehend your point, what do mean by "weilds" here. Do you
> think Ammachi is going to start some political outfit or she occupying some
> country, if she "weilds" so much power as you cailm.

--I am simply stating the fact that it is hard to go against her wishes. For
example, her father is accused of trying to take advantage of a female
devotee. He allegedly said that she would not be taken seriously, since his daughter
is Amma. Do you doubt that, out of respect, and fear, the police and judicial
system would look away if at all possible? Is that so far from possibility?


>
>
> I understand zealous defense of one's guru. But, the wisdom and sense of the
>
> guru should intercede, not conspire with such zealotry. Remember love and
> forgiveness? Or, fight a fair fight. Show the truth against the
> allegations.
> Write a counter-book. but attacking the poor man like this is shameful IMHO.
> Avram
>
> Dear Avram, I consider you have poor understanding about many issues here.
> Weather Ammachi or Indian political situation. No body is attacking the
> writer, as I mentioned earlier it was wirtten way back in 1985. He is entitled to
> write what ever he likes or he does not like. All the cases where closed long
> back and none of the deaths where mysterious. You concern shows as if some
> one has issued a fatwa agianst the writer.

-I am not in favor of the anti-Amma people. I simply don't like the way he is
being treated, i.e., prosecution for offending the religious sensibilities of
others. I think a higher road should be tread, such as responding in honesty
and truth. No, you will not change them, but you will affect the larger
public who is watching this play out.



>
>
> Karl Marx, a German Jew founded Marxism. He said "Religion is opium of
> masses". He based his ideology soley on Christianity and Judaism(prevailing
> religions in Europe during his time). Because these religions require to have faith
> in one particular book and in one particular god. However Marxism never
> applies to Hinduism, since there is no Pope, you can be atheist too. But given
> Inferiority complex, low Self Esteem Indians possess, they always felt western
> thinking is superior. Hence, there bewitchment with Marxism. Hindusim is
> routinely subjected to Marxsistic analysis. Indian arm chaired, be-spectacled
> Marxists take pride in their intellectual masturbation. As a result there is a
> confilct between religion and charity. Charity is nothing but KARMA YOGA,
> essence of Hinduism.
>
> In India I met too many Keralites (I am a Telugu)who swear, verbally abuse
> or use street lingo to describe Ammachi. Most of those terms, I cannot write
> on this forum. I expereinced worst form of verbal abuse against ammachi and I
> always disregarded them. Any new "written" crticsm will not surprise me.

- I don't defend the abuse. I defend their right to the abuse.

>
> I am seeing Ammachi since 1997. In United States itself I met her 4 times
> and this summer its going to be fifth time. Whenever I see ammachi, I tend to
> stay in that particular place until Ammachi leaves that station. I saw Ammachi
> hugging blacks,browns, whites, orientals, beggars,crippled, deformed, cats,
> dogs, snakes, insects etc,who ever comes on her way. I have seen that she
> sits in one particular place for 20+ hours without going to restroom, hugging
> continously. She is doing this for many years, personally for me Fisrt hand
> experience is atleast 7 years, and I AM CONVINCED BEYOND BELIEF that Ammachi is
> extraordinary, mind you I nurtured this notion with my experience gained from
> my OWN EYES, NOT FROM THIRD PARTY ACCOUNT. Sreeni Pattathanam or some other
> Tom, Dick and Harry are not going to change my conviction, I am not surprised
> by their critiscm, and I will not be suprised if some other person comes
> with a new cristicsm in feautre.

--What I would like is to read what these men are saying. I want to hear
their side. Is that a crime?

>
> Avram,You need to focus on Ammachi and undersatnd Ammachi. What kind faith
> is that, if it wanes for some dude's perspective. How does it matter, if one
> one thinks or does not think about Ammachi.There are 6 billion people on this
> planet and they write thousand things. I THINK WE SHOULD PONDER ABOUT OUR
> RELATIONSHIP ABOUT AMMACHI.

--I know you don't get this, but I AM pondering my relationship with Amma.

>
> regards
>
> Avinash.
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
   Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 19:18:42 -0500
   From: Barbara Edmonds <edmondsb@indiana.edu>
Subject: Monitor ???

Namah Shivaya.....
Where is the monitor for Ammachi@Yahoogroups.com......have not our
brothers taken this entire topic TOOOOOO far ?
Why speculate and argue over humankind................should we not be
working toward spiritual matters.

Please stop !!! Keval, Sprouse, Avram, & Avinash......please take your
concerns to a private chat.......and do not disrupt those of us who
prefer to stay our of your quarrels.

I feel like I am again observing grade school playground time between
the boys who are throwing bigger and bigger snow balls at each other,
and no one knows which team they belong.....and there are many rocks in
the middle of the snow balls.


Amritavarshini


On Monday, June 7, 2004, at 06:18 PM, sprose1@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 6/7/04 2:45:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> Ammachi@yahoogroups.com writes:
> Dear Avinash:
> I would like to respond herewith to your post. I do not want to
> trouble this
> list with a protracted and contentious dialogue, so I will be to- the
> -point
> only.
>
>> Dear Keval:
>>
>> I am not aware of the inner workings of the Hindu Fundamentalists and
>> Indian
>>
>> politics in general.
>>
>> Well, that should answer everything.
>
> -Not quite everything.
>
>>
>> What I am concerned about, however, is the on-going
>> prosecution of Sreeni Pattathanam, his publisher and editor, for
>> writing a
>> book
>> critical of Amma.
>>
>> Sreeni Pattathnam cristicism was written in 1985, so nothing is new,
>> Sreeni
>> is a typical Marxist.
>
> I believe it is the reprinting of the book a few years ago that
> brought about
> the present troubles. I agree that the book is not new.
>
>>
>> It is actually a devotee, at Amritapuri, who has brought the
>> suit, but I doubt he would have done it against Her wishes.
>>
>> I would very much be interested to take part in that.
>>
>> Likewise, Head
>> Swami started a letter-writing campaign against this man,
>>
>> Everybody has right to defend themselves.
>>
>> which felt quite
>> threatening to him.
>>
>> That is his perspective always playing the role of "victim"
>>
>> Complaining that his book encroaches on religious faith, the
>> devotee is trying to use a rarely if ever-used law against attacking
>> another's
>> religion. Those who died on Normandy defended the right to free
>> speech,
>> even
>> if it is untrue. If that is the case, then there are laws against
>> libel.
>> The
>> book in question is not available outside India. The men, Mr.
>> Zachariah
>> among
>> them, who argue that there are unsavory users around the guru, are
>> far from
>> fools;
>>
>> Dude you are too NAIVE. You need to understand Indian politics, but
>> can be
>> forgiven since you mentioned you are ignorant.
>>
>> Paul Zachariah is one freaking acid mouth Christian fanatic
> -that's very objective of you. So he can't speak without being accused
> of
> breaking the law?
>
> who hails from Kerala. He writes reguraly for "Outlook", a
> Congress-Christain
>> magzine. His views are highly narrow minded and always against
>> Hinduism,
>> his oppostion against Ammachi is mainly Communal based.
>
> -And yet he still has the right to express his odious ideas.
>
>>
>> Pat Roberstson or Billy Graham's view about Ammachi would be much
>> better
>> that P Zachariah's.
>>
>> I do not know enough about politics to render a decision on this, but
>> I
>> do believe that people have a right to speak their minds, up to the
>> point of
>>
>> intentionally deceiving others.
>>
>> BUDDY WAKE UP. Cristicsm agianst Ammachi and Her movement has long
>> History,
>> it is not something new. Ammachi comes from state of Kerala, Kerala
>> had the
>> first democratically elected Communist Govt in the world.
> - I knew they were communist, but not that they were the first
> democratically
> elected. Thank you for that.
>
> Since Marxism is against relegion and Hinduism is the majority
> religion,
> Hinduism
>> is the primary target for Marxists and always at the recieving end.
>> It goes
>> like this "enemy of my enemy is my freind". Indian Marxists first aim
>> is to
>> clear Hinduism of India, then go after other minority religions, as a
>> result
>> is this alliance with Muslims and Christians( who pretty much have
>> their own
>> plans for India).
>
> -Well, the Marxists would have a long way to go in India, first off. I
> repeat that, despite the desires of the Marxists and Rationalists to
> reduce the
> influence of Amma, their right to spew forth their ideas is
> sacrosanct. When, and
> if, they cross the lines of libel, the law should protect the
> innocent. We
> cannot silence everything people say,even if they appear to be no
> good. Am I
> naive in that? Why should they not have the right to say what they
> want about
> Amma? Don't people have a right to love and hate, and to talk about
> it? Some
> people love Reagan, and some hate Reagan. They both have the right to
> speak
> here. The criticism of outsiders performs a useful role; it balances
> the other
> side and keeps it from getting too insular. Checks and balances. If
> they
> hate Amma, so be it! But, if they lie and slander Her, that's another
> story,
> and there I agree it should be fought. If they disagree about events
> and offer
> alternative hypotheses, then what right is there to take them to court?
>
>>
>> Rationalists have written Articles, fliers,pamplets against Ammachi
>> form
>> 1970's, in fact these people threatend physical voilence against
>> devotees.
>> They lost their hold in 80's and 90's. Now with their new found
>> freinds the
>> Keralite Christians (who feel threatend with growing popularity of
>> Ammachi) are
>> comming into picture.
>
> - I am well aware of the earlier antagonism against the Ashram. I am
> not in
> favor of them.
>>
>>
>> This scandal is going to hurt public
>> perception,
>>
>> No body will be hurt, I don't understand your concern.
>
> --Maybe you are the naive one, about the American public. But,
> overall, I
> don't think it will be traumatic. I do know one friend who has
> reluctantly
> decided that he cannot remain a devotee because of the prosecution of
> Mr.
> Pattathanam.
>
>>
>> and the ashram will likely hide behind the unnamed devotee;
>>
>> WHAT THE HECK, his name is Amrtaswarup
>> - you don't mean the Swami Amrtaswarupananda, do you? I am referring
>> to the
>> one who is pushing the prosecution...
>
> and this is what he has written : The venomous mind of Zackaria has
> been
> pouring
>> forth poison through his pen for quite some time now. He has crossed
>> the
>> lines of all decency. It is high time to respond to this evil minded
>> writer
>> befittingly. Amma's children should spring to action now. He
>> considers our
>> silence as weakness. We should not let this extremely wicked person
>> harass our
>> most Beloved Amma who has offered Herself to the world. COME
>> ON.......LET US DO
>> IT NOW....GATHER AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU CAN...STOP KEEPING QUIET TO
>> THIS
>> ADHARMIC PERSON...
>>
>> Nobody is hiding nothing.
>
> - If "nobody is hiding nothing" then why did they take this off the
> website?
> My guess is that it was seen as an embarrassment, a faux pas. Sw.
> Swarupananda was behind this exploit.
>
>>
>>
>>
>> anyone who
>> knows the scene knows that nothing happens there without
>> authorization.
>>
>> I cannot
>> understand this and I am upset about it.
>>
>> You will never understand, and what I don't understand is your
>> irrational
>> upset.
>>
>> The teaching is love and
>> forgiveness, etc. The Rationalists are atheists who believe that
>> religion
>> holds people
>> back; its their conviction and they have a right to it. They have a
>> right
>> to
>> ask for investigation of deaths and other shadowy things, even if we
>> don't
>> exactly like it.
>>
>> Why persecute people for that, if your message is love and
>> forgiveness?
>>
>> GIVE ME A BREAK! No one is getting persecuted. No body is getting
>> lynched or
>> killed. No Ayotollahs or Mullah Omars in India.
>
> -You don't have to lynch someone; you can have him brought to trial,
> and try
> to destroy his livelihood, credibility, etc.
>
>>
>> It's telling that Dayamrita says that Hinduism is not a religion, let
>> alone Ammadom.
>>
>> You need to know basics, Hindusim is not a religion in the sense like
>> Christianity, Islam, Judaism which claim exclusive rights for God.
>>
>> So, the argument that Mr. Pattathanam is guilty of attacking
>> religion is patently false,
>>
>> since the Ashram is registered as a charity,
>>
>> In India lines between religion and Charity does not exist.
>> Ramakrishna
>> Mission is a Hindu religious organisation that run schools and
>> charities, Kanchi
>> mutt is a religious body that runs Nethralaya,
>>
>> a temple first
>> of all, and that Ammaism is not a religion,
>>
>> There no such thing has "Ammaism" please stop phrasing new fancy,
>> cosmetic
>> terms.
>>
>>
>>
>> since even Hinduism is not a
>> religion.
>>
>> Yes Hinduism is not a religion in CONVENTIONAL SENSE.
>>
>> She wields a lot of power in Kerala, over police and politicians.
>>
>> MAN, I cannot comprehend your point, what do mean by "weilds" here.
>> Do you
>> think Ammachi is going to start some political outfit or she
>> occupying some
>> country, if she "weilds" so much power as you cailm.
>
> --I am simply stating the fact that it is hard to go against her
> wishes. For
> example, her father is accused of trying to take advantage of a female
> devotee. He allegedly said that she would not be taken seriously,
> since his daughter
> is Amma. Do you doubt that, out of respect, and fear, the police and
> judicial
> system would look away if at all possible? Is that so far from
> possibility?
>
>
>>
>>
>> I understand zealous defense of one's guru. But, the wisdom and sense
>> of the
>>
>> guru should intercede, not conspire with such zealotry. Remember love
>> and
>> forgiveness? Or, fight a fair fight. Show the truth against the
>> allegations.
>> Write a counter-book. but attacking the poor man like this is
>> shameful IMHO.
>> Avram
>>
>> Dear Avram, I consider you have poor understanding about many issues
>> here.
>> Weather Ammachi or Indian political situation. No body is attacking
>> the
>> writer, as I mentioned earlier it was wirtten way back in 1985. He is
>> entitled to
>> write what ever he likes or he does not like. All the cases where
>> closed long
>> back and none of the deaths where mysterious. You concern shows as if
>> some
>> one has issued a fatwa agianst the writer.
>
> -I am not in favor of the anti-Amma people. I simply don't like the
> way he is
> being treated, i.e., prosecution for offending the religious
> sensibilities of
> others. I think a higher road should be tread, such as responding in
> honesty
> and truth. No, you will not change them, but you will affect the larger
> public who is watching this play out.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Karl Marx, a German Jew founded Marxism. He said "Religion is opium of
>> masses". He based his ideology soley on Christianity and
>> Judaism(prevailing
>> religions in Europe during his time). Because these religions require
>> to have faith
>> in one particular book and in one particular god. However Marxism
>> never
>> applies to Hinduism, since there is no Pope, you can be atheist too.
>> But given
>> Inferiority complex, low Self Esteem Indians possess, they always
>> felt western
>> thinking is superior. Hence, there bewitchment with Marxism. Hindusim
>> is
>> routinely subjected to Marxsistic analysis. Indian arm chaired,
>> be-spectacled
>> Marxists take pride in their intellectual masturbation. As a result
>> there is a
>> confilct between religion and charity. Charity is nothing but KARMA
>> YOGA,
>> essence of Hinduism.
>>
>> In India I met too many Keralites (I am a Telugu)who swear, verbally
>> abuse
>> or use street lingo to describe Ammachi. Most of those terms, I
>> cannot write
>> on this forum. I expereinced worst form of verbal abuse against
>> ammachi and I
>> always disregarded them. Any new "written" crticsm will not surprise
>> me.
>
> - I don't defend the abuse. I defend their right to the abuse.
>
>>
>> I am seeing Ammachi since 1997. In United States itself I met her 4
>> times
>> and this summer its going to be fifth time. Whenever I see ammachi, I
>> tend to
>> stay in that particular place until Ammachi leaves that station. I
>> saw Ammachi
>> hugging blacks,browns, whites, orientals, beggars,crippled, deformed,
>> cats,
>> dogs, snakes, insects etc,who ever comes on her way. I have seen that
>> she
>> sits in one particular place for 20+ hours without going to restroom,
>> hugging
>> continously. She is doing this for many years, personally for me
>> Fisrt hand
>> experience is atleast 7 years, and I AM CONVINCED BEYOND BELIEF that
>> Ammachi is
>> extraordinary, mind you I nurtured this notion with my experience
>> gained from
>> my OWN EYES, NOT FROM THIRD PARTY ACCOUNT. Sreeni Pattathanam or some
>> other
>> Tom, Dick and Harry are not going to change my conviction, I am not
>> surprised
>> by their critiscm, and I will not be suprised if some other person
>> comes
>> with a new cristicsm in feautre.
>
> --What I would like is to read what these men are saying. I want to
> hear
> their side. Is that a crime?
>
>>
>> Avram,You need to focus on Ammachi and undersatnd Ammachi. What kind
>> faith
>> is that, if it wanes for some dude's perspective. How does it matter,
>> if one
>> one thinks or does not think about Ammachi.There are 6 billion people
>> on this
>> planet and they write thousand things. I THINK WE SHOULD PONDER ABOUT
>> OUR
>> RELATIONSHIP ABOUT AMMACHI.
>
> --I know you don't get this, but I AM pondering my relationship with
> Amma.
>
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Avinash.
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>



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Message: 5
   Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 01:48:18 -0000
   From: "chembalacnair" <chembalacnair@yahoo.com>
Subject: AMMA SAYS - APHORISM

OM AMRITESWARYAI NAMAH

AMMA SAYS:

"Look at the optimism of Nature. Nothing can stop it."

::

Amma Sharanam
May all the beings in all the worlds be peaceful and happy.



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
   Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 01:58:45 -0000
   From: "chembalacnair" <chembalacnair@yahoo.com>
Subject: AMMA SAYS - STORIES & JOKES

OM AMRITESWARYAI NAMAH

AMMA SAYS - STORY

How to Pray

A man's wife died. The bereaved husband invited a priest to pray for
the peace of her departed soul.

During the rites, the priest chanted the mantra, Lokah Samastaha
Sukhino Bhavanthu. As the husband didn't understand the meaning of
the mantra, he asked the priest about it. The priest explained to
him that it meant 'May all the people in the world live in peace and
prosperity.'

The husband said to the priest, 'I asked you to pray for the soul of
my wife, but you haven't mentioned her name even once in your
prayers!'

The priest replied, 'My guru has taught me to pray in this way. When
we pray for the welfare of the whole world, your wife will be
blessed with peace and grace.' Not satisfied with the reply, the
husband said, 'At least you could leave my neighbour who lives to
the east of my house out of your prayers, because he is my enemy.
You can pray for anyone except for him!'

"My children, this is the sort of attitude many people have
nowadays. We have to change our attitude. We have to make an effort
so that we yearn for the welfare of everyone."
::
AMMA SHARANAM



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________________________________________________________________________

Message: 7
   Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 21:19:34 -0700 (PDT)
   From: Mike Brooker <patria1818@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Monitor ???


--- Barbara Edmonds <edmondsb@indiana.edu> wrote:
> Namah Shivaya.....
> Where is the monitor for
> Ammachi@Yahoogroups.com......have not our
> brothers taken this entire topic TOOOOOO far ?
> Why speculate and argue over
> humankind................should we not be
> working toward spiritual matters.
>
> Please stop !!! Keval, Sprouse, Avram, &
> Avinash......please take your
> concerns to a private chat.......and do not disrupt
> those of us who
> prefer to stay our of your quarrels.
>

This is the monitor (i.e. moderator). Actually this
is the fill-in moderator until Kandar gets back from
his vacation! I've just gotten back online after
watching game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals
(Congratulations to the Tampa Bay Lightning!!) and I
agree with the above! Let's stop this thread now! Or
to use an Indglish acronym, WEF (with immediate
effect). Please, no more postings about the
Communists/Rationalists' efforts to discredit Amma,
lawsuits filed by ashram residents against Amma's
would-be detractors or vice versa, Hindu v. Christian
v. Muslim infighting in Kerala's politics, and any
further issues arising out of that horribly
misinformed San Jose Mercury article. direct your
comments about it to: letters@mercurynews.com

Keval




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Message: 8
   Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 23:16:46 -0700 (PDT)
   From: "E. Lamb" <jyotsna2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Seattle Retreat

Dear All,

I've just returned from the Seattle retreat and
am trying to get the mind to organize some of the
great experiences there. I may send several separate
posts.

It was a wonderful retreat! The first day, Friday,
was beautiful, Seattle at its best. It also
was registration, and a hectic day for me, as I
served as local lead for registraion. Our early
team arrived at 11:00 a.m. and registration was closed
at midnight, so it was a long day. Fortunately, many
fine sevites helped.

Amma was just in fine humor. Overall, it was very
mellow. The meditation on Saturday had to be held
inside because of a torrential downpour. The
questions were as follows:

1. How can devotees help the environment? (I'm
paraphrasing, as the questioner seemed to be
trying to get the answer he had in mind.) He talked
so long that Swamiji sarcastically remarked when
he was done "asking" the question, "Thanks for the
long question." Then Amma gave an even longer
answer--
poor Swamiji! It must have lasted 20 minutes total.
She said everything has it's own dharma, that you
can't shut down all the factories because people
depend on them to feed their families, etc. If
anyone recall this more specifically, feel free to
jump in here.

2. How can a little devotee get answers from Amma
when far away from Her, and letters and e-mails don't
seem to work?

There seemed to be a little bit of a heated discussion
between Amma and Swamiji and even Sw. Ramakrishna
jumped in before Swamiji finally told her to pray
and meditate.

3. Amma, I'm so worried because I don't know where
the Seat of the Soul is. Where is the seat of the
soul?

Amma said the Atman (soul) is everywhere, not in
any one place.

4. Amma, I'm worried about the political situation;
what should I do?

Amma said each country has its own dharma and she
doesn't want to interfere. She said that we can't
change others, we can only change ourselves. We have
to change ourselves and then others will change.
She said it is very important not to blame. Whatever
you do, don't blame.

Saturday night the Seattle satsang did a great play
that incorporated original guitar music, acting,
break-dancing, poetry, and ballet. What a talented
group! For those who recall Mohanon Knickerbocker's
character of Rex Brilliante' from the music program
of two years ago, Rex was back as an egotistical and
self-centered Amma devotee who likes to talk about
the Indian gods and holy books but isn't very nice
to his sister, whose (funny) name I didn't catch.
Sudha Borys played the savy niece who articulates her
vision of a world where everyone contributes their
various talents as a way of worshiping God. It
was good!

For Devi Bhava Amma wore a blue and gold choli with
a purple (to me) and gold sari. Devi Bhava lasted
until 6 a.m., even though the crowd didn't seem that
large to me. I think the token numbers were 3,000
or so. The monks sang lots of Krishna songs. It
all felt "very Vishnu" to me.

Of course there are very special things that happen
with Amma which are not to be shared in a public
forum. Once again, Amma touched my heart in little
ways that only She and I know about. She is my
God and my Guru, this Amma.

Love,
Jyotsna







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Message: 9
   Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 00:03:40 -0700
   From: "Amalia Darling" <AmaliaDarling@hotmail.com>
Subject: faith and doubt

It seems to me that faith and doubt go hand in hand. Doubt gives faith it's
meaning. As long as we dwell in the illusion of duality, surely we will
experience both. For me the doubts live not so much in my thoughts about
Amma but more in my emotions. She is not limited in Her unconditional Love,
but I have resistance to letting Her in and to fully trusting. Two days ago
I was in my typical, "Here She comes again to disrupt my life" pre-tour
space. It felt at that point so hard to open up again to the physical,
financial and emptional challenges that tour presents to me. Now She's here
(in San Ramon) and I am SO happy and overwhelmed with joy and gratitude.
Until I have been granted enlightenment I expect to continue on some level
to cycle through fear and doubt and faith and love.

@Her Holy Feet,
Amalia
m Amriteswaryai Namah




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________________________________________________________________________

Message: 10
   Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 09:57:41 -0700 (PDT)
   From: Girish <girish_srv@yahoo.com>
Subject: MEDITATE WHILE YOU WORK (27)

MEDITATE WHILE YOU WORK : A NEW PATH FOR A NEW AGE (27)
                         Swami Ashokananda

    The Swami did not want them to have only a higher standard
of living - central heating, wonderful clothes, plenty of vitamins,
a nice library to go to, nice recreation grounds, so that the more
leisure they have the more worthless they become, because they have
not learned the use of time - either they spend their leisure time
indulging in hobbies or they spend it in acquisition. Such things
may give them a little satisfaction but do not make them any better:
they do not discover any profound truth thereby. The Swami didn't
want that. Of course he wanted people to have a decent living, a decent
house and some enjopment. But he wanted them very soon to rise above
that material level to the dignity of their own inner being, spiritual
dignity. He wanted even the common man to rise to that dignity; he
did not want anyone to stop halfway. He wanted all men and women -
in the East and in the West - to rise towards that. That was his aspiration.
Therefore one of his great teachings was, 'Go from door to door,
the door of the poor as well as the rich, of the young and the old,
of the learned and the ignorant; and to everyone say, "You are infinite,
you are eternal. In you is the infinite power. You are free. You are
divine."' He wanted us to teach this truth to everyone, to tell them
all that they are divine. That is what he meant by worshipping man as God.
 


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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________________________________________________________________________

Message: 11
   Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 12:34:13 -0700 (PDT)
   From: "E. Lamb" <jyotsna2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Airport

Back to Amma's arrival in Seattle...

After Amma arrived at the airport and we watched her
drive away (as recounted earlier), another devotee,
C, and I walked back into the baggage claim area to
collect the people we were transporting to Bipin's
house.

We were stopped by an older Indian man who asked,
"Who is this who is coming?" Not sure why he was
asking, I decided to assume that he wanted to know
for "good" reasons, i.e. perhaps he would be
interested in Amma. So I said it was Mata
Amritanandamayi, and C. said "Ammachi." So he seemed
interested and asked if she was from India, etc.
Then he said, "Well, miracles happen, but She can't
save you from your sins; only Jesus Christ can do
that!"

With recognition dawning in my eyes, I said, "Oh,
you're a South Indian Christian!"
"No," he said, and started going into how his
family had been Muslim and Hindu, and then
continuted, "but thank God my grandfather discovered
Jesus Christ. You were raised here in that truth
and have forsaken it for a false teaching," etc.

C and I were polite, but then I said, "We don't
see it that way." And C added gently, "Everyone
has to follow their own path." And we went on
to baggage claim. C and I assured each other that
we consider ourselves Christian.

It's my experience that hardly anyone is less
respectful of our freedom of choice in religious
matters and seems to feel more threatened by Amma's
international following than Christians from India.
Almost all the people I know from the west who have
gone to Amma's ashram have been approached.

Jyotsna











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Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ammachi/

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There are 5 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: "Let's do things the way the Congress used to do"
           From: "Lata Jagtiani" <latashea@yahoo.com>
      2. Don't visit UP, Britain tells its citizens
           From: "S.Kalyanaraman" <kalyan97@yahoo.com>
      3. Why does inner voice want govt. files? Subversion of Constitution continues
           From: "S.Kalyanaraman" <kalyan97@yahoo.com>
      4. Why does inner voice want govt. files? Subversion of Constitution continues
           From: "S.Kalyanaraman" <kalyan97@yahoo.com>
      5. Criminalisation of the Council of Ministers: Arun Jaitley
           From: "S.Kalyanaraman" <kalyan97@yahoo.com>


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Message: 1
   Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 10:30:14 -0000
   From: "Lata Jagtiani" <latashea@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: "Let's do things the way the Congress used to do"

Dear Parag,

I am really sorry this has taken so long in the coming. I have been
more or less confined to bed with my acute pain and my traction and
ultrasound treatment comes to an end on Sat, 12th June. I am hoping
that i will be able to send you my detailed response as soon as I am
able. Thx for caring.

Once again I appreciate your patience.
Yours
Lata Jagtiani


--- In HinduThought@yahoogroups.com, "Parag Garg" <parag@w...> wrote:
> Hope you are in fine health. I am waiting for your complete
argument.
>
> parag
>
> --- In HinduThought@yahoogroups.com, "Lata Jagtiani"
<latashea@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Reply to Mr Garg:
> > I am sorry I may not be able to reply fully today to yr well-
> reasoned
> > response because I have severe spondilitis and it strains my neck
> and
> > shoulder to type a lot. But I will start today and continue
> tomorrow.
> >



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Message: 2
   Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 19:11:49 -0000
   From: "S.Kalyanaraman" <kalyan97@yahoo.com>
Subject: Don't visit UP, Britain tells its citizens

Who's this cleric or the organization who are acting like followers
of the Al Qaeda?

Read also Prakash Karat's warning to UPA about the Iraq policy.

Kalyanaraman

Don't visit UP, Britain tells its citizens

Press Trust of India/Associated Press

London, June 8: The British government has issued a travel warning
about a state in India, saying that a Muslim cleric had criticised
Britain and two other countries.
 
Travellers were told to take extra care and to consider postponing
visits to holy sites in Lucknow, the capital of northern Uttar
Pradesh, after the Shia cleric and his followers had warned British,
American and Israeli citizens to stay away.

The brief Foreign Office statement on Monday did not identify the
cleric or his organisation in Uttar Pradesh.

"You should exercise caution in visiting such sites and may wish to
consider postponing visits until the situation becomes clearer,"
Britain's foreign office said.

The cleric and his followers have issued statements in connection
with the war in Iraq, the Foreign Office said, including notices
posted at some holy sites "banning" British, American and Israeli
visitors from them. The sites were not identified.

http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=32271

Left parties raise objection on foreign policy of UPA

By Our Special Correspondent

NEW DELHI, JUNE 7. The Left parties today welcomed the President's
address to the joint session of Parliament based on the Common
Minimum Programme (CMP) of the United Progressive Alliance but
expressed reservations about the "exclusion'' and "inclusion'' of
issues from the document.

Reacting to the address, the Left parties pointed out at least five
issues - two of which were there in the CMP but did not find mention
in it and three issues that were not in the document still finding a
place in the Presidential address.

The major objections were on the foreign policy of the UPA
Government, with the Communist Party of India and the Communist
Party of India (Marxist) observing that the address talked of the
country's relation with Israel and the stand on Iraq.

Referring to the articulation that "we welcome moves for an early
restoration of sovereignty to the people of Iraq'', the CPI-M Polit
Bureau member, Prakash Karat said it appears that the Government had
given "blanket support'' to the United States' moves in the
country. "Sovereignty itself is farcical and the United Nations is
hardly associated (with the process)... it seems to be a facile
acceptance of the U.S. plan'', Mr. Karat said.

The party also took note of the statement on Israel with the
President mentioning: "Our relations with Israel, which have
developed on the basis of mutually beneficial cooperation are
important but this in no way dilutes our principled support for the
legitimate aspirations of the Palestinian people.'' Mr. Karat said
the CMP made no mention of Israel and now it has been linked with
the Palestine issue.

He also said issues like a legislation to protect the agricultural
labourers and to review the Central Electricity Act, 2003 did not
find a mention in the address even though the CMP had a specific
entry.

The CPI national secretary, D. Raja, said that while the address
broadly restated what was spelt out in the CMP, there were
departures. He said, there was a reference that "public-private
partnerships will be encouraged for expansion of physical
infrastructure such as roads, ports, airports, power, railways,
water supply and sanitation''. The "public-private partnership'' was
deleted in the CMP, after the Left parties took objection to its
mention in the draft.

http://www.hindu.com/2004/06/08/stories/2004060803651100.htm



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 20:51:21 -0000
   From: "S.Kalyanaraman" <kalyan97@yahoo.com>
Subject: Why does inner voice want govt. files? Subversion of Constitution continues

Sonia has powers to call for Govt files, says Bharadwaj
Wednesday June 9 2004 00:22 IST
NEW DELHI: Congress President Sonia Gandhi, who has been appointed as
the UPA Chairperson, will have the powers to call for files from any
Ministry, now that she has been given the status of a Cabinet rank.

In an exclusive interview to this website's newspaper, Union Law
Minister H R Bharadwaj denied that Sonia Gandhi was an extra-
constitutional authority. He said that this was the real purpose of
conferring on her the Cabinet rank so that no one objected to her
accessing the files.

Explaining her new role as the UPA Chairperson, he stated that Sonia
Gandhi alone has the responsibility of coordinating with the alliance
partners and to ensure the implementation of the CMP as the UPA
Chairperson. "If the Left parties or any of the allies are
dissatisfied over the implementation of the CMP, she can ask for the
files relating to that particular Ministry."

Bharadwaj felt that there was nothing wrong in appointing her the
chairperson of the UPA as she alone was responsible for the victory
of the Congress. "It is she who brought the party to power and is the
only unifying force in the party," he remarked.

Denying that there are two power centres, the Law Minister said that
while Prime Minister Manmohan Singh will run the Government, it will
be Sonia Gandhi as the UPA Chairperson who will discharge the overall
responsibility of running the Coalition in her capacity as the UPA
Chairperson.

Talking about the Ayodhya cases where former Deputy Prime Minister L
K Advani and Union Minister Murli Manohar Joshi and Madhya Pradesh
Chief Minister Uma Bharati were charge-sheeted for the demolition of
the Babri mosque, Union Law Minister H R Bharadwaj stated that the
Manmohan Singh Government will "pursue the Ayodhya case vigorously."

He also said that,"We will fight the Ayodhya case in the court of law
and set right the distortions." He said that the revision petition is
pending in the Lucknow bench of the Allahbad High Court and the writ
petition is pending in the Supreme Court. "We will ensure that the
matters pending in various courts are expedited," he remarked.

Talking about the tainted Ministers, the issue on which the
Opposition is boycotting both the Houses of Parliament, the Union Law
Minister said that the Manmohan Singh Government attaches great
importance to probity in public life. It is for this reason that they
had raised the issue for the removal of former Union Defence Minister
George Fernandes and former BJP President Bangaru Laxman when their
involvement was nailed in the Tehelka tapes.

George Fernandes who had resigned in the wake of the Tehelka expose
was re-inducted by former Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee even
before the inquiry commission set-up for this purpose had submitted
its report. Similarly, he gave the instances of Uma Bharati who has
been made Chief Minister of Madhya Pradesh and former Punjab Chief
Minister Prakash Singh Badal, who is facing corruption charges.

According to the Union Law Minister, he was not averse to framing a
uniform law which could be applicable to all the persons cutting
across party lines. "To have different set of rules for yourself and
different for us, is unjustified," Bharadwaj remarked.

He also expressed the view that the Opposition was targeting RJD
leader and Union Railways Minister Laloo Prasad Yadav only because he
has returned victorious and defeated his detractors in Bihar.

The Union Law Minister finds no reason why the new Government should
continue with the fast track courts. "When the track is old, how can
you term it as fast track?" asked Bharadwaj. He said that the need of
the hour was to increase the number of judges in the regular courts
and expedite the cases. Instead of re-employing old and retired
judges, it is better to appoint and promote judges in the regular
courts and increase the manpower.

Bharadwaj accused his predecessor Arun Jaitley of spending his time
in the "India Shining campaign" instead of filling-up the vacancies
in courts. He has left 300 vacancies in the courts, stated the Union
Law Minister.

http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?
ID=IEH20040608140145&Page=H&Title=Top+Stories&Topic=0&



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
   Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 20:52:33 -0000
   From: "S.Kalyanaraman" <kalyan97@yahoo.com>
Subject: Why does inner voice want govt. files? Subversion of Constitution continues

Sonia has powers to call for Govt files, says Bharadwaj
Wednesday June 9 2004 00:22 IST
NEW DELHI: Congress President Sonia Gandhi, who has been appointed as
the UPA Chairperson, will have the powers to call for files from any
Ministry, now that she has been given the status of a Cabinet rank.

In an exclusive interview to this website's newspaper, Union Law
Minister H R Bharadwaj denied that Sonia Gandhi was an extra-
constitutional authority. He said that this was the real purpose of
conferring on her the Cabinet rank so that no one objected to her
accessing the files.

Explaining her new role as the UPA Chairperson, he stated that Sonia
Gandhi alone has the responsibility of coordinating with the alliance
partners and to ensure the implementation of the CMP as the UPA
Chairperson. "If the Left parties or any of the allies are
dissatisfied over the implementation of the CMP, she can ask for the
files relating to that particular Ministry."

Bharadwaj felt that there was nothing wrong in appointing her the
chairperson of the UPA as she alone was responsible for the victory
of the Congress. "It is she who brought the party to power and is the
only unifying force in the party," he remarked.

Denying that there are two power centres, the Law Minister said that
while Prime Minister Manmohan Singh will run the Government, it will
be Sonia Gandhi as the UPA Chairperson who will discharge the overall
responsibility of running the Coalition in her capacity as the UPA
Chairperson.

Talking about the Ayodhya cases where former Deputy Prime Minister L
K Advani and Union Minister Murli Manohar Joshi and Madhya Pradesh
Chief Minister Uma Bharati were charge-sheeted for the demolition of
the Babri mosque, Union Law Minister H R Bharadwaj stated that the
Manmohan Singh Government will "pursue the Ayodhya case vigorously."

He also said that,"We will fight the Ayodhya case in the court of law
and set right the distortions." He said that the revision petition is
pending in the Lucknow bench of the Allahbad High Court and the writ
petition is pending in the Supreme Court. "We will ensure that the
matters pending in various courts are expedited," he remarked.

Talking about the tainted Ministers, the issue on which the
Opposition is boycotting both the Houses of Parliament, the Union Law
Minister said that the Manmohan Singh Government attaches great
importance to probity in public life. It is for this reason that they
had raised the issue for the removal of former Union Defence Minister
George Fernandes and former BJP President Bangaru Laxman when their
involvement was nailed in the Tehelka tapes.

George Fernandes who had resigned in the wake of the Tehelka expose
was re-inducted by former Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee even
before the inquiry commission set-up for this purpose had submitted
its report. Similarly, he gave the instances of Uma Bharati who has
been made Chief Minister of Madhya Pradesh and former Punjab Chief
Minister Prakash Singh Badal, who is facing corruption charges.

According to the Union Law Minister, he was not averse to framing a
uniform law which could be applicable to all the persons cutting
across party lines. "To have different set of rules for yourself and
different for us, is unjustified," Bharadwaj remarked.

He also expressed the view that the Opposition was targeting RJD
leader and Union Railways Minister Laloo Prasad Yadav only because he
has returned victorious and defeated his detractors in Bihar.

The Union Law Minister finds no reason why the new Government should
continue with the fast track courts. "When the track is old, how can
you term it as fast track?" asked Bharadwaj. He said that the need of
the hour was to increase the number of judges in the regular courts
and expedite the cases. Instead of re-employing old and retired
judges, it is better to appoint and promote judges in the regular
courts and increase the manpower.

Bharadwaj accused his predecessor Arun Jaitley of spending his time
in the "India Shining campaign" instead of filling-up the vacancies
in courts. He has left 300 vacancies in the courts, stated the Union
Law Minister.

http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?
ID=IEH20040608140145&Page=H&Title=Top+Stories&Topic=0&



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
   Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 01:04:20 -0000
   From: "S.Kalyanaraman" <kalyan97@yahoo.com>
Subject: Criminalisation of the Council of Ministers: Arun Jaitley

June 9, 2004 Indian Express

Manmohan is an honourable man
  
So why doesn't he get rid of his tainted ministers?
  
ARUN JAITLEY
 
 The prime minister of India heads the largest democracy in the
world. He has a huge responsibility and a high level of public
accountability. Amongst his foremost prerogatives is to choose his
council of ministers. If the minister does not enjoy his confidence
or public perception about him does not inspire confidence, it is
incumbent upon the PM to get rid of him.

A coalition government functions on its own ``dharma''. Prime
ministerial authority can get weakened when coalition partners insist
that they will decide the party nominees in the council of ministers.
Such insistence may render nugatory the prime ministerial
prerogative.
 
Manmohan Singh is an honourable man. The country expects him to
assert himself in order to uphold the principles of probity in public
life.

There has been a debate over whether persons against whom
chargesheets have been filed in the courts should be inducted in the
council of ministers. There is no requirement in the Constitution
seeking to bar persons from holding ministerial office because a
chargesheet is filed against them. Some have argued that under our
jurisprudence there is a presumption of innocence till guilt is
proved. The alternative view has been that for those in public life
there must be a presumption of guilt unless innocence is proved.

The Election Commission has held that persons against whom
chargesheets are pending and charges have been framed by the
appropriate court should be debarred from contesting elections. The
Law Commission has supported this view. The Supreme Court in its
judgment in 2002, however, considered it necessary that persons
against whom criminal cases are filed, must disclose to the voters
the facts relating to the pendency of the charges. As the then law
minister, I convened a meeting of all parties in September 2001
seeking their views on the recommendations of the EC and Law
Commission. The overwhelming opinion was that law and order being a
state subject, there is a possibility of abuse on the eve of
elections. The spectrum of opinion was against such legislation.

Conscious of the fact that there was a strong public opinion against
the criminalisation of politics, the NDA government in 2002 proposed
a legislation wherein a category of ``heinous'' crime was defined.
The proposal envisaged that if two chargesheets involving heinous
crimes were filed against a person, it would debar him from
contesting elections. The Congress and Left parties rejected this
proposal. It could not go through.

The legal position is clear. A convicted person can be debarred from
contesting elections but a chargesheeted person can't be. Most
chargesheeted persons after winning elections argue that they have
been vindicated by the "people's court". The people decide the
popularity of a candidate in the first-past-the-post system on
several considerations. They do not decide innocence or guilt in
matters of criminal culpability.

The prime ministerial prerogative is not bound by the popularity of a
candidate. It cannot be circumscribed by the quota of ministerial
representation to a coalition partner. The PM must weigh whether the
popular perception of a particular person and his own assessment
renders him unfit to hold office. The unwritten rule has been that
prime ministers have tended to ignore offences arising out of
political agitations, trade union activities and the like, but
serious offences involving moral turpitude cannot be ignored. Many
ministers in Morarji Desai's cabinet would have been prosecuted for
various offences during the Emergency. Obviously, there is no
perception that they are criminals or tainted. But when ministers
were chargesheeted in the hawala case, they were asked to quit. While
defending the continuation of L.K. Advani, M.M. Joshi and Uma Bharati
in the NDA government, we maintained that these offences emanated
from a political agitation and therefore in neither popular
perception nor that of the prime minister's they could be considered
as "criminals".

The nation is concerned with the criminalisation of politics. We are
faced with the criminalisation of the council of ministers. Laloo
Prasad Yadav has faced six prosecutions in the fodder scam and the
seventh relates to possession of disproportionate assets. These are
prosecutions under the Prevention of Corruption Act. He resigned as
chief minister of Bihar on account of these cases but has been
inducted into the Central government notwithstanding the pendency of
the cases. Taslimuddin has almost a dozen cases against him involving
offences under the Penal Code, Arms Act etc. He was dropped from the
Central government in 1996 because of them. Jai Prakash Yadav has
been chargesheeted under the Prevention of Corruption Act and the
penal law by the Vigilance Department of the Bihar Government. Shibu
Soren faces CBI prosecution for serious offences under the Penal Code
and the Prevention of Corruption Act. A report was filed against M.A.
Fatmi by the Superintendent of Police, Darbhanga, for involvement in
serious offences. A friendly government decided not to prosecute him.
Another minister in the government has been adjudged guilty for
foreign exchange violation. Yet another is perceived to be involved
in the massacre of Sikhs in the 1984 riots. Another was
unsuccessfully prosecuted for harbouring assassins of the late Rajiv
Gandhi.

The case for dropping these ministers is politically and morally
strong. Partners of the UPA government who argued that chargesheets
emanating out of the political Ayodhya movement were enough to drop
three NDA ministers, cannot turn around and say that involvement in
hard-core crime still leads to a presumption of innocence. The moral
authority of the government at the Centre has been compromised by
the `Dirty Dozen'. The position of the Left parties is pathetic. They
display formal disapproval outside the Parliament alongside loud
criticism of the demand for dropping them. They are not concerned
with the gross impropriety of the inclusion of these ministers. They
are only concerned with the BJP's right to question their
continuation because L.K. Advani was chargesheeted in the Ayodhya
case.

The PM has the prerogative to include anyone in his council of
ministers. However, if prime ministerial prerogatives are misused
either consciously or by compulsion of coalition politics, the moral
legitimacy of this prerogative is bound to be questioned.

The writer is a spokesperson for the BJP

 
http://www.indianexpress.com:8080/full_story.php?content_id=48564



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



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 was driving along aimlessly on a lazy weekend evening when the sun caught me in the eye. Like a silver coin, it looked, in the dusty haze that the angry winds had whipped up. The sun had lost its sting and I stared defiantly long and hard at him, as if to say, every one has his time in the sun, even you, but we all have to make way for a new order, sooner or later.
What is it about twilight that gives it an air of mystery? The transition from light to darkness gives off vibrations that unsettle the most stolid of people. Part of it could be conditioning. We all grow up to the milieu of tales revolving around that mystical time of the day . We have all been filled in with stories that we listened to in open-mouthed wonder, our little minds not able to comprehend fully the nature of things.

This incomplete understanding is the key to all attraction and fascination. When you understand something completely, when you analyze something totally, it loses its charm. When you dissect something and lay it bare, it loses its appeal. Nothing but microbes deserves to be stared at through a microscope. Not in the least, life. You lose the zest for life when you scrutinize it too much.

Philosophy is good, but only to a certain extent and only as a rough guide line. No philosophy should be taken so far as to unravel the mystery that is life. Life is like a can of coke. You leave it open too long, it loses its fizz. What’s coke without its fizz, what’s life without its zing !

What we don’t know intrigues us. What we know for sure, bores us silly ; something along the lines of ‘familiarity breeds contempt’. But every human being is so complex and human nature so intricate that no one can claim to have cracked the code in the span of a life time. It was not designed to be understood.

Evenings in most homes are set aside for prayer. Dusk is a period that most people set aside to plead their case with God. Maybe that’s His appointed time for receiving petitions. Must ask his secretary if something can be done about changing the timings a bit. Maybe being with ‘big brother’ God gives us some sense of security during those bleak hours.

Most cultures perpetuate the myth that there are spirits wandering around in this ‘twilight zone’. There are any number of old wives tales doing the rounds, with minor variations to include ethnic peculiarities. I’m far too superstitious ( well, on and off , really) to dismiss it as total malarkey.

Djinns, spirits that have not got salvation, people who died un natural deaths, spirits of people whose relatives did not have money enough to dish out to the holy men who prescribe ‘corrective measures ‘ for these delinquent souls�they’re all out there, biding their time, to spook the living daylights out of the next person who crosses the threshold. It’s scary. It’s fascinating. It’s all bull. Or is it?

Much of this confusion can be attributed to the fear of the unknown. Fear bordering on hysteria makes people see and hear things that are not really there. Fear opens up senses that had long lain shut and you start seeing and hearing things that you had previously ignored.

Dusk ! My way of getting back at the sun ; the only time I can declare victory over it. When he’s not really there, but is not fully gone, I hoist my colours of triumph over his worn-out and spent shell, knowing fully well that I’m a fool even in my conquest. If only until the next sunrise when the equation gets reversed all over again, let me live on in my fool’s paradise.

The Gita offers encouragement in Chapter 2 verse 40:-

No step is lost on this path, and no dangers are found. And even a little progress is freedom from fear.

This is a very encouraging verse, which in essence is saying that even if we stumble towards our goal at least we are still moving forward, nothing is wasted. If you do just 5 minutes of breathing or breath awareness throughout the day it will do some good. Again as we shall see later we should not become attached to our goals.

If you set yourself the goal of doing 2 hours of asana work every morning, it's still worth doing just ten minutes if that’s all there is time for rather than thinking I’ll leave for it for today because I can’t fit my normal program in!

In life, everyday the difficult situations we generally find ourselves in are usually beyond the, shall I re-set the alarm or should I get up and do 2 hours of rigorous yoga scenario.

So how do we deal with life’s more challenging moments. Normally our concerns about any stressful situation is fear of what will happen to us. In a nutshell our attachment to the outcome. Krishna offers advice to Arjuna as follows:-

For example Chapter 2 verse 47

‘Set thy heart upon thy work, but never on its reward. Work not for a reward; but never cease to do thy work’

In Juan Mascaro’s translation of the Gita Arjuna gets direct and sometime difficult advice on the sense of duty towards work and our attachment to it.

Attachment to the outcome of any action colours our perception and our interpretation, it effects the way we listen to others how we formulate our opinions of events and situations and our desire to control them.

If we think about it most of our stress is due to letting our senses run away with themselves. Our thoughts re-live past failures or times when we did not do so well and super-impose them over future events taking us away from our appointment with life which only exists in the present moment – the here and now.

We all have situations to deal with which have the possibility to cause us pain or suffering, whether it accepting bad news or delivering bad news to others. We have a duty to handle this in a way that means that our actions do not make any situation worse than it is and that our minds are focused and unattached to our senses and goals.

In chapter 18 Krishna talks to Arjuna about the surrender of works

One of the most important teachings in yoga and meditation is moving to stillness and being present so that our actions are free from our own senses and ego.

In summary, the Gita teaches us that we cannot avoid our duty in that every task, no matter how small, is important. It is an opportunity to be mindful of our actions and their effect on ourselves and others.

Happiness How?
 
 Have you ever wondered how so many people literally WAIT to become happy?
Does happiness really rest in the World tour that seems impossible? Or can you find happiness in a little walk down the lane, hand in hand with the love of your life?

Yes, just as unbelievable it sounds, it is true that most people in this world WAIT for happiness like they wait to catch the next train. We wait for big things to happen in life and forget the small little packages of joy that come our way.

We seem to forget all those wonderful things that we possess and continually crib about what is beyond reach.

Even the most mundane things in life can become the most beautiful experiences if viewed in a different persepctive, if tackled differently. In simple words, it is the ATTITUDE that brings you happiness in most cases than the actual object of joy.

So what if your lover has not SMSd you this morning? Trust me when I say that a great deal of joy can be derived when you behold the first smile of your newborn, there are millions of others less fortunate.

Making best of life's situations, being content with what you have are sure ways to everlasting happiness. One does not need to chase happiness then, it will come and perch itself in your life like a beautiful butterfly.

Today's Stories:
1. Hindus Protest UK Government Proposal for English Language
Requirement for Priest Visas
2. Hinduism Today's Publisher Visits Western Canada
3. Swami Pragyanand on Tour in the West
4. Indian Immigrants Live Longest of All Immigrants in California

1. Hindus Protest UK Government Proposal for English Language
Requirement for Priest Visas
http://www.hinducounciluk.org

LONDON, ENGLAND, June 8, 2004: The Home Office invited a delegation
from Hindu Council UK for a consultation on the oncoming legislation
for "Ministers of Religion from abroad." Dr. Stadlen, Head of the Faith
Communities Unit, chaired the meeting and explained that the White
Paper, "Secure Borders, Safe Haven," undertook to review the existing
arrangements whereby they would like to look at the proposal for
allowing appropriately qualified persons to be allowed an entry
clearance. One of the proposals for an entry clearance is that the
Minister of Religion has sufficient knowledge of English (IELTS Band 6
Competent User). Such a requirement would have a drastic impact on
Hindus as few priests could meet such a requirement. The complete
report of the meeting follows.

O. P. Sharma responded to explain that there are about 140 temples,
each having its own Executive Committee of volunteers from the
community and that these are the people who actually run the temples
and arrange community activities. The priests take a secondary role of
performing various rituals and carrying out worship activities. They
are not preachers as such and each temple on average has 2 to 3 priests
only, in fact very few come to the UK, at least, in comparison to other
faiths. Mr. Sharma said that these priests, although highly educated
and trained to perform the temple duties, may not know English at all
and that while we are trying to get them trained in English also it
will take about 10 years to achieve that requirement, which we too
prefer.

Dr. Stadlen commented that English is a useful tool to communicate to
the younger members of the community and in addition the requirement
would be complimentary to the community cohesion program. Raj Bali said
that for community work in the north Midlands he is an active member in
every society/organisation one could name but he could not expect the
priest to take any such participation. He said that we are concerned
more about the priest's scriptural education and his command of
Sanskrit rather than any other language. Ishwer Taylor also continued
that community cohesion is the responsibility of the community, not so
much of the priest. In Preston, he said that they do encourage the
priests to attend college for English as a second language course but
it is more important to them that he speaks Gujarati and Hindi.
Community activities like visits by schools etc. are always dealt with
by one of the Executive persons. Dr. Rao clarified that a Hindu priest
is not a preacher, nor does he give sermons. He said that in his
Ventakeshwar Balaji temple they have 6 priests and none of them preach,
which is left to the monks.

Kishore Ruperalia elaborated that someone like Morari Bapu, who is a
spiritual leader, would travel to various countries and give
sermons/lectures but he is not a priest, nor can be termed as a high
priest. However, these leaders come only as visitors and do not require
a work permit. Jitu Patel then explained that at Swaminarayan they have
various categories, e.g., a) Sadhus, who will preach and most know
English well; b) Pujaries, who do the worship and ritual duties
(actually, are the priests); c) Puraanies, who read and analyze the
scriptures; d) Bhandaries, who cook for the Deities. Mr. Patel
explained that actually the categories b, c and d have little or no
contact with the public and they would like to maintain that.

Mr. Ratnasingham then added that in a Sri Lankan temple they observe
many more rituals in comparison to the North Indian customs and they
need a minimum of 6 priests to observe all the duties. Currently their
senior priest does not know English and some of the junior category
priests do but the senior priest is a highly educated scholar in the
Hindu scriptures, Sanskrit and temple duties, which the junior priests
cannot match. Mr. Ruperalia added that the priests are for practical
work in the temple and that there is a lot of symbolism in Hinduism.
Mr. Taylor continued that for us the Deities, once consecrated in the
shrine, have life infused in them and therefore we need priests to look
after them, to feed them, to bathe them, to clothe them and so on.

Dr. Stadlen enquired whether the priests were in two categories, a)
where they provide a moral leadership role and b) where they just do
the ritual work of the temples. Mr. Bhanot tried to sum up saying that
probably only 5% of the priests take up the leadership role, where they
do actually start giving sermons and go out to the community but the
other 95% remain basically in the temple and would give moral and
scriptural guidance on an individual basis. He continued on Raj Bali's
comment that our priest is consulted by the community on an individual
basis and although he commands respect from the congregation he does
not lead it as would be the case, for instance, by an Imam in a mosque,
who actually acts as their leader. He clarified that the Hindu priest
does not get involved with community issues, nor does he comment on
them.

Mr. Sharma gave an example of the Wolverhampton temple where recently
they held a congregation where the priest, who speaks broken English,
did all the religious duties but lectures and talks were given by the
community leaders and the congregation included three MEP's and fifteen
councillors and he reminded that that is community cohesion at work.
Dr. Rao, finally made a point that actually switching does not happen
in Hindu priesthood; it is not that an I T engineer can switch to
becoming a priest; the training is long and arduous. He enquired at the
end from Dr. Stadlen whether it was now clear that such a law would
undermine our system totally and although efforts can be made in future
to request the schools to train the priests in English also that at the
very least Hindus should be exempted in a transitional period of say 10
years.

Dr. Rao said that if our youngsters demand that the priests speak
English the system will automatically begin to cater for that and this
legislation is not seen as necessary for the Hindu priestly roles; that
would be the case for our exemption. Dr Stadlen thanked the delegation
and said that it has been very interesting for him to learn the
differences and that he will keep the Ministers informed for a further
review and another possible consultation. He briefly touched on
considering the downgrading of the IELTS Band 4 limited user
requirement for English but there was still no consensus on that by the
delegation.


2. Hinduism Today's Publisher Visits Western Canada
http://www.gurudeva.org/guru_travels.html

KAUAI, HAWAII, June 8, 2004: Satguru Bodhinatha Veylanswami, publisher
of Hinduism Today magazine, will visit Hindu temple communities in
Edmonton, Alberta and Vancouver, BC in mid-June. Your family and
friends are cordially invited to attend the following public events
where you can enjoy Bodhinatha's darshan and words of wisdom.

  June 15-16: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
  Bodhinatha attends the Maha Ganapati Temple's anniversary ceremonies
on June
  16th and 17th evenings from 6-9:30pm.

  Sri Maha Ganapati Temple
  128 Running Creek Road
  Edmonton, AB T6J 7B1
  CANADA


  For more details about the ceremonies and directions to the temple,
please
  visite their website, http://www.mahaganapatitemple.com. Or call
  780-988-5161, or write to mgsaedmonton@yahoo.ca


  July 18-20: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
  Bodhinatha visits and speaks at four temples in Vancouver:

  June 18, 6-9pm:
  Richmond Hill Murugan Temple
  16680 River Road
  Richmond, B.C. V6V 1L3
  Phone: 604-231-5899

  June 19, 9am-1pm:
  Subramaniya Swami Temple
  8840-No.5 Road
  Richmond, B.C.
  Phone: 604-274-7906

  June 19, 5-8pm:
  Sri Ganesha Temple Society
  7656 Main Street, Vancouver, B.C. V5X 3K3


  June 20, 9am-2pm:
  Arul Migu Thurkadevi Hindu Society
  7468 Edmonds Street
  Burnaby, B.C. V3N 1B2
  Phone: 604-521-3472


  For more details about the ceremonies, please call the phone numbers
above or email masenthi@hotmail.com


3. Swami Pragyanand on Tour in the West
karthik24@yahoo.com

USA, June 8, 2004: Jagadguru Swami Pragyanand of Pragya Mission
International is visitng USA first time after being conferred the title
of Mahamandaleshwar by the oldest akhada (Community of Hindu Monks) of
India, Avahan Akhada. Although he has visited the USA more than 60
times, this time it makes it a special honor for his devotees to
welcome him as the head of Hindu monks of Avahan Akhada.

Vishwa Sant Param Sangh nominated him as a president of their holy
organization to unite all saints around the world. He has fervently
promoted global peace, universal love, brotherhood as a globetrotting
monk known in most parts of the world as a cultural ambassador of
India. He is dedicated and devoted to national integrity, unity &
communal harmony based on the teachings and philosophy of Shridi
Sadguru Sai Baba. Tens of thousand have been motivated by him to give
up nonvegetarian foods, drinking and smoking within India and abroad.
Swami Pragyanand has established centers in nearly 75 countries on all
the continents for spreading the message of Satya Sanatan Dharma
(Hinduism, the most ancient universal religion of the world) and also
preaching spiritualism & Gayatri mahamantra. He has set up a
multipurpose project combining general education, spiritual education.
temples, eye hospital, general hospital, university, a eco-friendly
habitat township estimated at US$23 million, sponsored by many other
foundations as well as World Bank. He has already distributed
tricycles, wheel chairs, hearing aids worth $35,000 to handicap and
disabled people at Pragya Dham Katangi, Jabalpur, M.P.

In this spiritual pilgrimage, he will be visiting U.K, Spain, Holland,
Germany, Belgium, South America, Suriname, Canada and USA. Swamiji will
be presiding over Sai Surya Gayatri Mahayagya and Gyan Yagna in San
Francisco, Los Angeles, Houston, Dallas, Nashville, Miami, Orlando,
Chicago, St. Louis, Indianapolis, Denver, Ottawa, New York and New
Jersey.

Swamiji may be reached on cell phone 510 468 6500. For more details
about yagnas and spiritual discourses, contact one of the following:
Dr. B.L. Vasistha, 0044 207 624 2666 (UK); Dr. Sashikant Agarwal 732
895 3200 (USA); or Kailash Sharma (USA) 718 379 5449. P. Karthikeyan of
Texas can be reached at "source" above.

4. Indian Immigrants Live Longest of All Immigrants in California
http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?
ID=IE820040608010623&Page=8&Title=NRIs&Topic=0&

CALIFORNIA, USA, June 8, 2004: Indian immigrants have the highest life
expectancy among California residents, exceeding the state average by
almost six years, according to a recently-released study. The study,
titled "The Demographics of Mortality in California" and conducted by
the Public Policy Institute of California (PPIC), revealed that
immigrants in general outlive the US born residents. Life expectancy
for immigrants in California was 81.5 years, compared to 77.4 years for
US natives. In India, The average Indian male born in India in the
1990s who continues to live there can expect to live 58.5 years; women
can expect to live only slightly longer (59.6 years), according to 1995
estimates for India.

Almost all of the Asian subgroups, except Laotians and Cambodians, have
life expectancies exceeding the state average, according to the report,
which was based on data from the 2000 US Census and the California
Department of Health Services. The study concluded that among the 19
ethnic groups studied, which included white, black, Mexicans, Cubans,
Japanese, Chinese, Filipino and Vietnamese groups, Asian Indians had
the highest life expectancy of 84.3 years. Indians were followed by
Vietnamese (83.8 years), Chinese (83.7 years) and Koreans (83.2 years).
For every ethnic group, women have lower mortality rates, thus living
longer than men. Among Indians, female life expectancy is 88.1 years,
compared to 81.5 for male immigrants.



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Subject: The Mind-a Mystery

The vast majority of men know not the existence of the
mind and its operations. Even the so-called educated
persons know very little of the mind subjectively or
of its nature and operations. They have only heard of
a mind.

Western psychologists know something.

Western doctors know only a fragment of mind. The
afferent nerves bring the sensations from the
periphery or extremities of the spinal cord. The
sensations then pass to the medulla oblongata at the
back of the head, where the fibres decussate. From
there, they pass on to the superior frontal gyrus or
superior frontal convolution of the brain in the
forehead, the supposed seat of the intellect or mind.
The mind feels the sensations and sends motor impulses
through the afferent nerves to the extremities-hands,
legs, etc. It is a brain-function only for them. Mind,
according to them, is only an excretion of the brain,
like bile from liver. The doctors are still groping in
utter darkness. Their minds need drastic flushing for
the entry of Hindu philosophical ideas.

It is only the Yogins and those who practise
meditation and introspection that know the existence
of the mind, its nature, ways and subtle workings.
They know also the various methods of subduing the
mind.

Mind is one of the Ashta-Prakritis. "Earth, water,
fire, air, ether, mind, reason and egoism-these
constitute the eightfold division of My Nature" (Gita,
VII-4).

Mind is nothing but Atma-Sakti. It is brain that wants
rest (sleep), but not the mind. A Yogi who has
controlled the mind never sleeps. He gets pure rest
from meditation itself.

Source Devine Life

Hare Krishna