------------------------
There are 11 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Re: Namah Shivayah!!
From: "Dixie Thacker" <dixielou@surfbest.net>
2. Re: critical article in Mercury news; reply to Digest Number 1199
From: "Aikya Param" <aikya@yahoo.com>
3. Re: Digest Number 1201
From: sprose1@aol.com
4. Monitor ???
From: Barbara Edmonds <edmondsb@indiana.edu>
5. AMMA SAYS - APHORISM
From: "chembalacnair" <chembalacnair@yahoo.com>
6. AMMA SAYS - STORIES & JOKES
From: "chembalacnair" <chembalacnair@yahoo.com>
7. Re: Monitor ???
From: Mike Brooker <patria1818@yahoo.com>
8. Seattle Retreat
From: "E. Lamb" <jyotsna2@yahoo.com>
9. faith and doubt
From: "Amalia Darling" <AmaliaDarling@hotmail.com>
10. MEDITATE WHILE YOU WORK (27)
From: Girish <girish_srv@yahoo.com>
11. Airport
From: "E. Lamb" <jyotsna2@yahoo.com>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 18:23:39 -0400
From: "Dixie Thacker" <dixielou@surfbest.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Namah Shivayah!!
----- Original Message -----
From: childofdevi
To: Ammachi@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 4:27 PM
Subject: [Ammachi] Re: Namah Shivayah!!
Brianna,
I second yogaman's wishes and congrats wholeheartedly!
Enjoy! Enjoy! Enjoy!
Love,
Snehalata
Brianna:
Happy birthday and Congrajulations on your new job! It looks like
Amma is taking good care of you.
-yogaman
--- In Ammachi@yahoogroups.com, Brianna Mosteller <rubyrapunzel@y...>
wrote:
> Namah Shivayah,
>
> Numerous mixed blessings to report. I've missed this
> list (and others) over the last few weeks as my life
> has been leaping toward uncharted territory. Got a job
> that I've been wanting for six months (hooray! hard
> times are fading away!), but at the expense of my
> summer tour plans to blissfully follow Mother
> throughout this country. I will still get to do the LA
> retreat, though, and I am so excited to see Her and be
> swept up in Her arms.
>
> I've been moving, working 50 and 60 hours a week, and
> haven't been consistant with mantra, I AM, and other
> sadhanas. I'm pretty stressed, but am carefully
> restructuring my schedule to include daily sadhana.
> It's interesting to me that this time I don't feel
> guilty or worried about drifting, I just noticed the
> distance and began making my way back. It reminds me
> of learning the Ujayi breath in yoga. When we lose the
> breath, we try to just come back to it without
> self-judgement or worry. Just observe the change in
> focus, and come back to the breath.
>
> I feel so grateful and unhurried. Something has
> changed. I'm not grasping, rushing, and crashing
> through each day anymore. I turned 24 on friday and
> had a really fantastic birthday.
>
> I hope everyone is doing well. I want to thank you
> guys for your love and support. I hope to be more
> active here soon, and I want to hear all about summer
> tour!
>
> pranams and hugs to all,
>
> Brianna
>
>
>
> =====
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sarvabhauma_yoga/ >
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
http://mail.yahoo.com Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 23:15:34 -0000
From: "Aikya Param" <aikya@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: critical article in Mercury news; reply to Digest Number 1199
At an event at New College of California on Saturday evening, at
least 4 people came up to me to tell me that there was an article
about Amma on the front page of the San Jose Mercuty News. They
looked quite happy about it and thought I would be happy to see it.
Amma made the front page! Obviously they had not read it yet.We
should all write letters to the editor and send them to the Merc.
People who know one of us have another window to Amma. They know
our character. Most people who know me also know that anyone who
does anything worthwhile will be met with resistance or opposition
in some form. No doubt we will hear more about and from Dayamrita
Swami about this. Hopefully the reporter didn't put words in his
mouth, but it wouldn't be the first time a reporter did that.
Obviously the reporter didn't know much about Amma and he surely
didn't know anything about Kerala.
What other religious leaders have made the front page of the San
Jose Mercuty News?
Aikya
--- In Ammachi@yahoogroups.com, "saramj33" <saramj33@y...> wrote:
> Hari Om
>
> Dear List members,
>
> an article with a critical tone has been published in the Saturday
> edition of the San Jose Mercury News entitled ,
> "Guru's bliss-inducing embraces have fans and critics",
> By Karl Schoenberger Mercury News .
>
> I have read the article and it is very biased and not objective.
> There are many false statements in the article.
> In the article it is claimed that Amma's organization has
unhealthy
> ties to Hindu fundamentalists, and that in Kerala a person cannot
> be a critic of Amma. This is not true.
> The article quotes " Joe Szimhart, a veteran deprogrammer
> and cult counselor" , saying ``Whether she has holiness is beside
> the point. People are going to feel her charisma and experience
> something ecstatic.''
>
> These are a few points from me. The author has obviously not spent
a
> lot of time in India with Hindu fundamentalists.
> Also, the author of the critical book of Amma, from Kerala , that
is
> mentioned in the article, is a member of the "rationalist" group
in
> Kerala. In years past, members of this group have tried to harm
Amma
> and Her devotees in many ways, and that includes physical attacks.
>
> 1. Amma is doing so many things that really rock the boat big time
> with strict Hindu fundamentalists. Any journalist who attended
> AV 50 in Cochin, or read the reports from it would understand this.
> For example:
> a. Amma has publicly criticized the dowry system in India.
> b. Amma looks at everyone the same no matter what caste,
> religion ( or lack of religion), or skin color.
> c. Amma has lady swaminis officiating at ceremonies.
>
> 2. The president of India, the honorable Dr.A.P.J. Kollam, is a
> devotee of Amma, and gave a speech at AV 50. He is a devout
Muslim.
> Other dignitaries from the many different religions and the
> different political parties of India attended gave speeches at AV
> 50.
>
> 3. I attended AV 50 and stayed at the Casino hotel in Cochin. Most
> of the people I met who worked at the hotel were Christians. I
> learned this from them: that the people of Kerala pride themselves
> on being tolerant and respectful of different religions, no matter
> what their own beliefs were. They had respect for
> Amma, but Amma was not their way, and that was fine.
> I might add that in Cochin I was woken up every morning around
5
> AM by the morning call to prayer being broadcast over a
loudspeaker
> from a nearby mosque.
>
> Falsehood:
> 4. This statement, in the article, is attributed to Sw. Dayamrita:
>
> ``I'd say 60 percent of the people who come to see her think she's
> fake,'' he said.
> Dayamrita is a former documentary filmmaker who originally sought
> out the guru nine years ago to expose her ``fake miracles and
> healings.'' But he joined Amritanandamayi in the monastic life
after
> witnessing the guru lick the open wounds of an elderly leper
before
> embracing him.``Even today I'm not convinced 100 percent,'' he
said,
> ``but I'm always amazed by her actions.''
>
> Nine years ago would be 1995. Amma's darshan with Dattan, the
leper,
> happened in the 1980's, I think; surely before 1993. So, if Swami
> Dayamrita first came to Amma only 9 years ago he could not have
> personally witnessed this event.
>
> The author of this article is distorting facts about Amma and Her
> life to for his own dishonorable purpose.
>
> Amma's words:
> "God is compassion and love. Compassion and love -- those are the
> two things the world needs. There are many people who don't get
> love. As for compassion, is there any person in this world who has
> not sinned? That's what Christ also said, isn't it? To me,
> compassion is forgiving, compassion is giving people even when
they
> don't deserve. "
>
> "I believe in love. Not fundamentalism. "
>
>
>
> Lokah samastaha sukino bhavantu
> Lokah samastaha sukino bhavantu
> Lokah samastaha sukino bhavantu
> Om shanti shanti shanti Om
>
> In Amma,
> Sara J.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 19:18:00 EDT
From: sprose1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1201
In a message dated 6/7/04 2:45:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Ammachi@yahoogroups.com writes:
Dear Avinash:
I would like to respond herewith to your post. I do not want to trouble this
list with a protracted and contentious dialogue, so I will be to- the -point
only.
> Dear Keval:
>
> I am not aware of the inner workings of the Hindu Fundamentalists and Indian
>
> politics in general.
>
> Well, that should answer everything.
-Not quite everything.
>
> What I am concerned about, however, is the on-going
> prosecution of Sreeni Pattathanam, his publisher and editor, for writing a
> book
> critical of Amma.
>
> Sreeni Pattathnam cristicism was written in 1985, so nothing is new, Sreeni
> is a typical Marxist.
I believe it is the reprinting of the book a few years ago that brought about
the present troubles. I agree that the book is not new.
>
> It is actually a devotee, at Amritapuri, who has brought the
> suit, but I doubt he would have done it against Her wishes.
>
> I would very much be interested to take part in that.
>
> Likewise, Head
> Swami started a letter-writing campaign against this man,
>
> Everybody has right to defend themselves.
>
> which felt quite
> threatening to him.
>
> That is his perspective always playing the role of "victim"
>
> Complaining that his book encroaches on religious faith, the
> devotee is trying to use a rarely if ever-used law against attacking
> another's
> religion. Those who died on Normandy defended the right to free speech,
> even
> if it is untrue. If that is the case, then there are laws against libel.
> The
> book in question is not available outside India. The men, Mr. Zachariah
> among
> them, who argue that there are unsavory users around the guru, are far from
> fools;
>
> Dude you are too NAIVE. You need to understand Indian politics, but can be
> forgiven since you mentioned you are ignorant.
>
> Paul Zachariah is one freaking acid mouth Christian fanatic
-that's very objective of you. So he can't speak without being accused of
breaking the law?
who hails from Kerala. He writes reguraly for "Outlook", a
Congress-Christain
> magzine. His views are highly narrow minded and always against Hinduism,
> his oppostion against Ammachi is mainly Communal based.
-And yet he still has the right to express his odious ideas.
>
> Pat Roberstson or Billy Graham's view about Ammachi would be much better
> that P Zachariah's.
>
> I do not know enough about politics to render a decision on this, but I
> do believe that people have a right to speak their minds, up to the point of
>
> intentionally deceiving others.
>
> BUDDY WAKE UP. Cristicsm agianst Ammachi and Her movement has long History,
> it is not something new. Ammachi comes from state of Kerala, Kerala had the
> first democratically elected Communist Govt in the world.
- I knew they were communist, but not that they were the first democratically
elected. Thank you for that.
Since Marxism is against relegion and Hinduism is the majority religion,
Hinduism
> is the primary target for Marxists and always at the recieving end. It goes
> like this "enemy of my enemy is my freind". Indian Marxists first aim is to
> clear Hinduism of India, then go after other minority religions, as a result
> is this alliance with Muslims and Christians( who pretty much have their own
> plans for India).
-Well, the Marxists would have a long way to go in India, first off. I
repeat that, despite the desires of the Marxists and Rationalists to reduce the
influence of Amma, their right to spew forth their ideas is sacrosanct. When, and
if, they cross the lines of libel, the law should protect the innocent. We
cannot silence everything people say,even if they appear to be no good. Am I
naive in that? Why should they not have the right to say what they want about
Amma? Don't people have a right to love and hate, and to talk about it? Some
people love Reagan, and some hate Reagan. They both have the right to speak
here. The criticism of outsiders performs a useful role; it balances the other
side and keeps it from getting too insular. Checks and balances. If they
hate Amma, so be it! But, if they lie and slander Her, that's another story,
and there I agree it should be fought. If they disagree about events and offer
alternative hypotheses, then what right is there to take them to court?
>
> Rationalists have written Articles, fliers,pamplets against Ammachi form
> 1970's, in fact these people threatend physical voilence against devotees.
> They lost their hold in 80's and 90's. Now with their new found freinds the
> Keralite Christians (who feel threatend with growing popularity of Ammachi) are
> comming into picture.
- I am well aware of the earlier antagonism against the Ashram. I am not in
favor of them.
>
>
> This scandal is going to hurt public
> perception,
>
> No body will be hurt, I don't understand your concern.
--Maybe you are the naive one, about the American public. But, overall, I
don't think it will be traumatic. I do know one friend who has reluctantly
decided that he cannot remain a devotee because of the prosecution of Mr.
Pattathanam.
>
> and the ashram will likely hide behind the unnamed devotee;
>
> WHAT THE HECK, his name is Amrtaswarup
> - you don't mean the Swami Amrtaswarupananda, do you? I am referring to the
> one who is pushing the prosecution...
and this is what he has written : “The venomous mind of Zackaria has been
pouring
> forth poison through his pen for quite some time now. He has crossed the
> lines of all decency. It is high time to respond to this evil minded writer
> befittingly. Amma's children should spring to action now. He considers our
> silence as weakness…. We should not let this extremely wicked person harass our
> most Beloved Amma who has offered Herself to the world. COME ON.......LET US DO
> IT NOW....GATHER AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU CAN...STOP KEEPING QUIET TO THIS
> ADHARMIC PERSON...”
>
> Nobody is hiding nothing.
- If "nobody is hiding nothing" then why did they take this off the website?
My guess is that it was seen as an embarrassment, a faux pas. Sw.
Swarupananda was behind this exploit.
>
>
>
> anyone who
> knows the scene knows that nothing happens there without authorization.
>
> I cannot
> understand this and I am upset about it.
>
> You will never understand, and what I don't understand is your irrational
> upset.
>
> The teaching is love and
> forgiveness, etc. The Rationalists are atheists who believe that religion
> holds people
> back; its their conviction and they have a right to it. They have a right
> to
> ask for investigation of deaths and other shadowy things, even if we don't
> exactly like it.
>
> Why persecute people for that, if your message is love and
> forgiveness?
>
> GIVE ME A BREAK! No one is getting persecuted. No body is getting lynched or
> killed. No Ayotollahs or Mullah Omars in India.
-You don't have to lynch someone; you can have him brought to trial, and try
to destroy his livelihood, credibility, etc.
>
> It's telling that Dayamrita says that Hinduism is not a religion, let
> alone Ammadom.
>
> You need to know basics, Hindusim is not a religion in the sense like
> Christianity, Islam, Judaism which claim exclusive rights for God.
>
> So, the argument that Mr. Pattathanam is guilty of attacking
> religion is patently false,
>
> since the Ashram is registered as a charity,
>
> In India lines between religion and Charity does not exist. Ramakrishna
> Mission is a Hindu religious organisation that run schools and charities, Kanchi
> mutt is a religious body that runs Nethralaya,
>
> a temple first
> of all, and that Ammaism is not a religion,
>
> There no such thing has "Ammaism" please stop phrasing new fancy, cosmetic
> terms.
>
>
>
> since even Hinduism is not a
> religion.
>
> Yes Hinduism is not a religion in CONVENTIONAL SENSE.
>
> She wields a lot of power in Kerala, over police and politicians.
>
> MAN, I cannot comprehend your point, what do mean by "weilds" here. Do you
> think Ammachi is going to start some political outfit or she occupying some
> country, if she "weilds" so much power as you cailm.
--I am simply stating the fact that it is hard to go against her wishes. For
example, her father is accused of trying to take advantage of a female
devotee. He allegedly said that she would not be taken seriously, since his daughter
is Amma. Do you doubt that, out of respect, and fear, the police and judicial
system would look away if at all possible? Is that so far from possibility?
>
>
> I understand zealous defense of one's guru. But, the wisdom and sense of the
>
> guru should intercede, not conspire with such zealotry. Remember love and
> forgiveness? Or, fight a fair fight. Show the truth against the
> allegations.
> Write a counter-book. but attacking the poor man like this is shameful IMHO.
> Avram
>
> Dear Avram, I consider you have poor understanding about many issues here.
> Weather Ammachi or Indian political situation. No body is attacking the
> writer, as I mentioned earlier it was wirtten way back in 1985. He is entitled to
> write what ever he likes or he does not like. All the cases where closed long
> back and none of the deaths where mysterious. You concern shows as if some
> one has issued a fatwa agianst the writer.
-I am not in favor of the anti-Amma people. I simply don't like the way he is
being treated, i.e., prosecution for offending the religious sensibilities of
others. I think a higher road should be tread, such as responding in honesty
and truth. No, you will not change them, but you will affect the larger
public who is watching this play out.
>
>
> Karl Marx, a German Jew founded Marxism. He said "Religion is opium of
> masses". He based his ideology soley on Christianity and Judaism(prevailing
> religions in Europe during his time). Because these religions require to have faith
> in one particular book and in one particular god. However Marxism never
> applies to Hinduism, since there is no Pope, you can be atheist too. But given
> Inferiority complex, low Self Esteem Indians possess, they always felt western
> thinking is superior. Hence, there bewitchment with Marxism. Hindusim is
> routinely subjected to Marxsistic analysis. Indian arm chaired, be-spectacled
> Marxists take pride in their intellectual masturbation. As a result there is a
> confilct between religion and charity. Charity is nothing but KARMA YOGA,
> essence of Hinduism.
>
> In India I met too many Keralites (I am a Telugu)who swear, verbally abuse
> or use street lingo to describe Ammachi. Most of those terms, I cannot write
> on this forum. I expereinced worst form of verbal abuse against ammachi and I
> always disregarded them. Any new "written" crticsm will not surprise me.
- I don't defend the abuse. I defend their right to the abuse.
>
> I am seeing Ammachi since 1997. In United States itself I met her 4 times
> and this summer its going to be fifth time. Whenever I see ammachi, I tend to
> stay in that particular place until Ammachi leaves that station. I saw Ammachi
> hugging blacks,browns, whites, orientals, beggars,crippled, deformed, cats,
> dogs, snakes, insects etc,who ever comes on her way. I have seen that she
> sits in one particular place for 20+ hours without going to restroom, hugging
> continously. She is doing this for many years, personally for me Fisrt hand
> experience is atleast 7 years, and I AM CONVINCED BEYOND BELIEF that Ammachi is
> extraordinary, mind you I nurtured this notion with my experience gained from
> my OWN EYES, NOT FROM THIRD PARTY ACCOUNT. Sreeni Pattathanam or some other
> Tom, Dick and Harry are not going to change my conviction, I am not surprised
> by their critiscm, and I will not be suprised if some other person comes
> with a new cristicsm in feautre.
--What I would like is to read what these men are saying. I want to hear
their side. Is that a crime?
>
> Avram,You need to focus on Ammachi and undersatnd Ammachi. What kind faith
> is that, if it wanes for some dude's perspective. How does it matter, if one
> one thinks or does not think about Ammachi.There are 6 billion people on this
> planet and they write thousand things. I THINK WE SHOULD PONDER ABOUT OUR
> RELATIONSHIP ABOUT AMMACHI.
--I know you don't get this, but I AM pondering my relationship with Amma.
>
> regards
>
> Avinash.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 19:18:42 -0500
From: Barbara Edmonds <edmondsb@indiana.edu>
Subject: Monitor ???
Namah Shivaya.....
Where is the monitor for Ammachi@Yahoogroups.com......have not our
brothers taken this entire topic TOOOOOO far ?
Why speculate and argue over humankind................should we not be
working toward spiritual matters.
Please stop !!! Keval, Sprouse, Avram, & Avinash......please take your
concerns to a private chat.......and do not disrupt those of us who
prefer to stay our of your quarrels.
I feel like I am again observing grade school playground time between
the boys who are throwing bigger and bigger snow balls at each other,
and no one knows which team they belong.....and there are many rocks in
the middle of the snow balls.
Amritavarshini
On Monday, June 7, 2004, at 06:18 PM, sprose1@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 6/7/04 2:45:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> Ammachi@yahoogroups.com writes:
> Dear Avinash:
> I would like to respond herewith to your post. I do not want to
> trouble this
> list with a protracted and contentious dialogue, so I will be to- the
> -point
> only.
>
>> Dear Keval:
>>
>> I am not aware of the inner workings of the Hindu Fundamentalists and
>> Indian
>>
>> politics in general.
>>
>> Well, that should answer everything.
>
> -Not quite everything.
>
>>
>> What I am concerned about, however, is the on-going
>> prosecution of Sreeni Pattathanam, his publisher and editor, for
>> writing a
>> book
>> critical of Amma.
>>
>> Sreeni Pattathnam cristicism was written in 1985, so nothing is new,
>> Sreeni
>> is a typical Marxist.
>
> I believe it is the reprinting of the book a few years ago that
> brought about
> the present troubles. I agree that the book is not new.
>
>>
>> It is actually a devotee, at Amritapuri, who has brought the
>> suit, but I doubt he would have done it against Her wishes.
>>
>> I would very much be interested to take part in that.
>>
>> Likewise, Head
>> Swami started a letter-writing campaign against this man,
>>
>> Everybody has right to defend themselves.
>>
>> which felt quite
>> threatening to him.
>>
>> That is his perspective always playing the role of "victim"
>>
>> Complaining that his book encroaches on religious faith, the
>> devotee is trying to use a rarely if ever-used law against attacking
>> another's
>> religion. Those who died on Normandy defended the right to free
>> speech,
>> even
>> if it is untrue. If that is the case, then there are laws against
>> libel.
>> The
>> book in question is not available outside India. The men, Mr.
>> Zachariah
>> among
>> them, who argue that there are unsavory users around the guru, are
>> far from
>> fools;
>>
>> Dude you are too NAIVE. You need to understand Indian politics, but
>> can be
>> forgiven since you mentioned you are ignorant.
>>
>> Paul Zachariah is one freaking acid mouth Christian fanatic
> -that's very objective of you. So he can't speak without being accused
> of
> breaking the law?
>
> who hails from Kerala. He writes reguraly for "Outlook", a
> Congress-Christain
>> magzine. His views are highly narrow minded and always against
>> Hinduism,
>> his oppostion against Ammachi is mainly Communal based.
>
> -And yet he still has the right to express his odious ideas.
>
>>
>> Pat Roberstson or Billy Graham's view about Ammachi would be much
>> better
>> that P Zachariah's.
>>
>> I do not know enough about politics to render a decision on this, but
>> I
>> do believe that people have a right to speak their minds, up to the
>> point of
>>
>> intentionally deceiving others.
>>
>> BUDDY WAKE UP. Cristicsm agianst Ammachi and Her movement has long
>> History,
>> it is not something new. Ammachi comes from state of Kerala, Kerala
>> had the
>> first democratically elected Communist Govt in the world.
> - I knew they were communist, but not that they were the first
> democratically
> elected. Thank you for that.
>
> Since Marxism is against relegion and Hinduism is the majority
> religion,
> Hinduism
>> is the primary target for Marxists and always at the recieving end.
>> It goes
>> like this "enemy of my enemy is my freind". Indian Marxists first aim
>> is to
>> clear Hinduism of India, then go after other minority religions, as a
>> result
>> is this alliance with Muslims and Christians( who pretty much have
>> their own
>> plans for India).
>
> -Well, the Marxists would have a long way to go in India, first off. I
> repeat that, despite the desires of the Marxists and Rationalists to
> reduce the
> influence of Amma, their right to spew forth their ideas is
> sacrosanct. When, and
> if, they cross the lines of libel, the law should protect the
> innocent. We
> cannot silence everything people say,even if they appear to be no
> good. Am I
> naive in that? Why should they not have the right to say what they
> want about
> Amma? Don't people have a right to love and hate, and to talk about
> it? Some
> people love Reagan, and some hate Reagan. They both have the right to
> speak
> here. The criticism of outsiders performs a useful role; it balances
> the other
> side and keeps it from getting too insular. Checks and balances. If
> they
> hate Amma, so be it! But, if they lie and slander Her, that's another
> story,
> and there I agree it should be fought. If they disagree about events
> and offer
> alternative hypotheses, then what right is there to take them to court?
>
>>
>> Rationalists have written Articles, fliers,pamplets against Ammachi
>> form
>> 1970's, in fact these people threatend physical voilence against
>> devotees.
>> They lost their hold in 80's and 90's. Now with their new found
>> freinds the
>> Keralite Christians (who feel threatend with growing popularity of
>> Ammachi) are
>> comming into picture.
>
> - I am well aware of the earlier antagonism against the Ashram. I am
> not in
> favor of them.
>>
>>
>> This scandal is going to hurt public
>> perception,
>>
>> No body will be hurt, I don't understand your concern.
>
> --Maybe you are the naive one, about the American public. But,
> overall, I
> don't think it will be traumatic. I do know one friend who has
> reluctantly
> decided that he cannot remain a devotee because of the prosecution of
> Mr.
> Pattathanam.
>
>>
>> and the ashram will likely hide behind the unnamed devotee;
>>
>> WHAT THE HECK, his name is Amrtaswarup
>> - you don't mean the Swami Amrtaswarupananda, do you? I am referring
>> to the
>> one who is pushing the prosecution...
>
> and this is what he has written : The venomous mind of Zackaria has
> been
> pouring
>> forth poison through his pen for quite some time now. He has crossed
>> the
>> lines of all decency. It is high time to respond to this evil minded
>> writer
>> befittingly. Amma's children should spring to action now. He
>> considers our
>> silence as weakness. We should not let this extremely wicked person
>> harass our
>> most Beloved Amma who has offered Herself to the world. COME
>> ON.......LET US DO
>> IT NOW....GATHER AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU CAN...STOP KEEPING QUIET TO
>> THIS
>> ADHARMIC PERSON...
>>
>> Nobody is hiding nothing.
>
> - If "nobody is hiding nothing" then why did they take this off the
> website?
> My guess is that it was seen as an embarrassment, a faux pas. Sw.
> Swarupananda was behind this exploit.
>
>>
>>
>>
>> anyone who
>> knows the scene knows that nothing happens there without
>> authorization.
>>
>> I cannot
>> understand this and I am upset about it.
>>
>> You will never understand, and what I don't understand is your
>> irrational
>> upset.
>>
>> The teaching is love and
>> forgiveness, etc. The Rationalists are atheists who believe that
>> religion
>> holds people
>> back; its their conviction and they have a right to it. They have a
>> right
>> to
>> ask for investigation of deaths and other shadowy things, even if we
>> don't
>> exactly like it.
>>
>> Why persecute people for that, if your message is love and
>> forgiveness?
>>
>> GIVE ME A BREAK! No one is getting persecuted. No body is getting
>> lynched or
>> killed. No Ayotollahs or Mullah Omars in India.
>
> -You don't have to lynch someone; you can have him brought to trial,
> and try
> to destroy his livelihood, credibility, etc.
>
>>
>> It's telling that Dayamrita says that Hinduism is not a religion, let
>> alone Ammadom.
>>
>> You need to know basics, Hindusim is not a religion in the sense like
>> Christianity, Islam, Judaism which claim exclusive rights for God.
>>
>> So, the argument that Mr. Pattathanam is guilty of attacking
>> religion is patently false,
>>
>> since the Ashram is registered as a charity,
>>
>> In India lines between religion and Charity does not exist.
>> Ramakrishna
>> Mission is a Hindu religious organisation that run schools and
>> charities, Kanchi
>> mutt is a religious body that runs Nethralaya,
>>
>> a temple first
>> of all, and that Ammaism is not a religion,
>>
>> There no such thing has "Ammaism" please stop phrasing new fancy,
>> cosmetic
>> terms.
>>
>>
>>
>> since even Hinduism is not a
>> religion.
>>
>> Yes Hinduism is not a religion in CONVENTIONAL SENSE.
>>
>> She wields a lot of power in Kerala, over police and politicians.
>>
>> MAN, I cannot comprehend your point, what do mean by "weilds" here.
>> Do you
>> think Ammachi is going to start some political outfit or she
>> occupying some
>> country, if she "weilds" so much power as you cailm.
>
> --I am simply stating the fact that it is hard to go against her
> wishes. For
> example, her father is accused of trying to take advantage of a female
> devotee. He allegedly said that she would not be taken seriously,
> since his daughter
> is Amma. Do you doubt that, out of respect, and fear, the police and
> judicial
> system would look away if at all possible? Is that so far from
> possibility?
>
>
>>
>>
>> I understand zealous defense of one's guru. But, the wisdom and sense
>> of the
>>
>> guru should intercede, not conspire with such zealotry. Remember love
>> and
>> forgiveness? Or, fight a fair fight. Show the truth against the
>> allegations.
>> Write a counter-book. but attacking the poor man like this is
>> shameful IMHO.
>> Avram
>>
>> Dear Avram, I consider you have poor understanding about many issues
>> here.
>> Weather Ammachi or Indian political situation. No body is attacking
>> the
>> writer, as I mentioned earlier it was wirtten way back in 1985. He is
>> entitled to
>> write what ever he likes or he does not like. All the cases where
>> closed long
>> back and none of the deaths where mysterious. You concern shows as if
>> some
>> one has issued a fatwa agianst the writer.
>
> -I am not in favor of the anti-Amma people. I simply don't like the
> way he is
> being treated, i.e., prosecution for offending the religious
> sensibilities of
> others. I think a higher road should be tread, such as responding in
> honesty
> and truth. No, you will not change them, but you will affect the larger
> public who is watching this play out.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Karl Marx, a German Jew founded Marxism. He said "Religion is opium of
>> masses". He based his ideology soley on Christianity and
>> Judaism(prevailing
>> religions in Europe during his time). Because these religions require
>> to have faith
>> in one particular book and in one particular god. However Marxism
>> never
>> applies to Hinduism, since there is no Pope, you can be atheist too.
>> But given
>> Inferiority complex, low Self Esteem Indians possess, they always
>> felt western
>> thinking is superior. Hence, there bewitchment with Marxism. Hindusim
>> is
>> routinely subjected to Marxsistic analysis. Indian arm chaired,
>> be-spectacled
>> Marxists take pride in their intellectual masturbation. As a result
>> there is a
>> confilct between religion and charity. Charity is nothing but KARMA
>> YOGA,
>> essence of Hinduism.
>>
>> In India I met too many Keralites (I am a Telugu)who swear, verbally
>> abuse
>> or use street lingo to describe Ammachi. Most of those terms, I
>> cannot write
>> on this forum. I expereinced worst form of verbal abuse against
>> ammachi and I
>> always disregarded them. Any new "written" crticsm will not surprise
>> me.
>
> - I don't defend the abuse. I defend their right to the abuse.
>
>>
>> I am seeing Ammachi since 1997. In United States itself I met her 4
>> times
>> and this summer its going to be fifth time. Whenever I see ammachi, I
>> tend to
>> stay in that particular place until Ammachi leaves that station. I
>> saw Ammachi
>> hugging blacks,browns, whites, orientals, beggars,crippled, deformed,
>> cats,
>> dogs, snakes, insects etc,who ever comes on her way. I have seen that
>> she
>> sits in one particular place for 20+ hours without going to restroom,
>> hugging
>> continously. She is doing this for many years, personally for me
>> Fisrt hand
>> experience is atleast 7 years, and I AM CONVINCED BEYOND BELIEF that
>> Ammachi is
>> extraordinary, mind you I nurtured this notion with my experience
>> gained from
>> my OWN EYES, NOT FROM THIRD PARTY ACCOUNT. Sreeni Pattathanam or some
>> other
>> Tom, Dick and Harry are not going to change my conviction, I am not
>> surprised
>> by their critiscm, and I will not be suprised if some other person
>> comes
>> with a new cristicsm in feautre.
>
> --What I would like is to read what these men are saying. I want to
> hear
> their side. Is that a crime?
>
>>
>> Avram,You need to focus on Ammachi and undersatnd Ammachi. What kind
>> faith
>> is that, if it wanes for some dude's perspective. How does it matter,
>> if one
>> one thinks or does not think about Ammachi.There are 6 billion people
>> on this
>> planet and they write thousand things. I THINK WE SHOULD PONDER ABOUT
>> OUR
>> RELATIONSHIP ABOUT AMMACHI.
>
> --I know you don't get this, but I AM pondering my relationship with
> Amma.
>
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Avinash.
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 01:48:18 -0000
From: "chembalacnair" <chembalacnair@yahoo.com>
Subject: AMMA SAYS - APHORISM
OM AMRITESWARYAI NAMAH
AMMA SAYS:
"Look at the optimism of Nature. Nothing can stop it."
::
Amma Sharanam
May all the beings in all the worlds be peaceful and happy.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 01:58:45 -0000
From: "chembalacnair" <chembalacnair@yahoo.com>
Subject: AMMA SAYS - STORIES & JOKES
OM AMRITESWARYAI NAMAH
AMMA SAYS - STORY
How to Pray
A man's wife died. The bereaved husband invited a priest to pray for
the peace of her departed soul.
During the rites, the priest chanted the mantra, Lokah Samastaha
Sukhino Bhavanthu. As the husband didn't understand the meaning of
the mantra, he asked the priest about it. The priest explained to
him that it meant 'May all the people in the world live in peace and
prosperity.'
The husband said to the priest, 'I asked you to pray for the soul of
my wife, but you haven't mentioned her name even once in your
prayers!'
The priest replied, 'My guru has taught me to pray in this way. When
we pray for the welfare of the whole world, your wife will be
blessed with peace and grace.' Not satisfied with the reply, the
husband said, 'At least you could leave my neighbour who lives to
the east of my house out of your prayers, because he is my enemy.
You can pray for anyone except for him!'
"My children, this is the sort of attitude many people have
nowadays. We have to change our attitude. We have to make an effort
so that we yearn for the welfare of everyone."
::
AMMA SHARANAM
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 21:19:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Brooker <patria1818@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Monitor ???
--- Barbara Edmonds <edmondsb@indiana.edu> wrote:
> Namah Shivaya.....
> Where is the monitor for
> Ammachi@Yahoogroups.com......have not our
> brothers taken this entire topic TOOOOOO far ?
> Why speculate and argue over
> humankind................should we not be
> working toward spiritual matters.
>
> Please stop !!! Keval, Sprouse, Avram, &
> Avinash......please take your
> concerns to a private chat.......and do not disrupt
> those of us who
> prefer to stay our of your quarrels.
>
This is the monitor (i.e. moderator). Actually this
is the fill-in moderator until Kandar gets back from
his vacation! I've just gotten back online after
watching game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals
(Congratulations to the Tampa Bay Lightning!!) and I
agree with the above! Let's stop this thread now! Or
to use an Indglish acronym, WEF (with immediate
effect). Please, no more postings about the
Communists/Rationalists' efforts to discredit Amma,
lawsuits filed by ashram residents against Amma's
would-be detractors or vice versa, Hindu v. Christian
v. Muslim infighting in Kerala's politics, and any
further issues arising out of that horribly
misinformed San Jose Mercury article. direct your
comments about it to: letters@mercurynews.com
Keval
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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 23:16:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: "E. Lamb" <jyotsna2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Seattle Retreat
Dear All,
I've just returned from the Seattle retreat and
am trying to get the mind to organize some of the
great experiences there. I may send several separate
posts.
It was a wonderful retreat! The first day, Friday,
was beautiful, Seattle at its best. It also
was registration, and a hectic day for me, as I
served as local lead for registraion. Our early
team arrived at 11:00 a.m. and registration was closed
at midnight, so it was a long day. Fortunately, many
fine sevites helped.
Amma was just in fine humor. Overall, it was very
mellow. The meditation on Saturday had to be held
inside because of a torrential downpour. The
questions were as follows:
1. How can devotees help the environment? (I'm
paraphrasing, as the questioner seemed to be
trying to get the answer he had in mind.) He talked
so long that Swamiji sarcastically remarked when
he was done "asking" the question, "Thanks for the
long question." Then Amma gave an even longer
answer--
poor Swamiji! It must have lasted 20 minutes total.
She said everything has it's own dharma, that you
can't shut down all the factories because people
depend on them to feed their families, etc. If
anyone recall this more specifically, feel free to
jump in here.
2. How can a little devotee get answers from Amma
when far away from Her, and letters and e-mails don't
seem to work?
There seemed to be a little bit of a heated discussion
between Amma and Swamiji and even Sw. Ramakrishna
jumped in before Swamiji finally told her to pray
and meditate.
3. Amma, I'm so worried because I don't know where
the Seat of the Soul is. Where is the seat of the
soul?
Amma said the Atman (soul) is everywhere, not in
any one place.
4. Amma, I'm worried about the political situation;
what should I do?
Amma said each country has its own dharma and she
doesn't want to interfere. She said that we can't
change others, we can only change ourselves. We have
to change ourselves and then others will change.
She said it is very important not to blame. Whatever
you do, don't blame.
Saturday night the Seattle satsang did a great play
that incorporated original guitar music, acting,
break-dancing, poetry, and ballet. What a talented
group! For those who recall Mohanon Knickerbocker's
character of Rex Brilliante' from the music program
of two years ago, Rex was back as an egotistical and
self-centered Amma devotee who likes to talk about
the Indian gods and holy books but isn't very nice
to his sister, whose (funny) name I didn't catch.
Sudha Borys played the savy niece who articulates her
vision of a world where everyone contributes their
various talents as a way of worshiping God. It
was good!
For Devi Bhava Amma wore a blue and gold choli with
a purple (to me) and gold sari. Devi Bhava lasted
until 6 a.m., even though the crowd didn't seem that
large to me. I think the token numbers were 3,000
or so. The monks sang lots of Krishna songs. It
all felt "very Vishnu" to me.
Of course there are very special things that happen
with Amma which are not to be shared in a public
forum. Once again, Amma touched my heart in little
ways that only She and I know about. She is my
God and my Guru, this Amma.
Love,
Jyotsna
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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 00:03:40 -0700
From: "Amalia Darling" <AmaliaDarling@hotmail.com>
Subject: faith and doubt
It seems to me that faith and doubt go hand in hand. Doubt gives faith it's
meaning. As long as we dwell in the illusion of duality, surely we will
experience both. For me the doubts live not so much in my thoughts about
Amma but more in my emotions. She is not limited in Her unconditional Love,
but I have resistance to letting Her in and to fully trusting. Two days ago
I was in my typical, "Here She comes again to disrupt my life" pre-tour
space. It felt at that point so hard to open up again to the physical,
financial and emptional challenges that tour presents to me. Now She's here
(in San Ramon) and I am SO happy and overwhelmed with joy and gratitude.
Until I have been granted enlightenment I expect to continue on some level
to cycle through fear and doubt and faith and love.
@Her Holy Feet,
Amalia
m Amriteswaryai Namah
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 09:57:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Girish <girish_srv@yahoo.com>
Subject: MEDITATE WHILE YOU WORK (27)
MEDITATE WHILE YOU WORK : A NEW PATH FOR A NEW AGE (27)
Swami Ashokananda
The Swami did not want them to have only a higher standard
of living - central heating, wonderful clothes, plenty of vitamins,
a nice library to go to, nice recreation grounds, so that the more
leisure they have the more worthless they become, because they have
not learned the use of time - either they spend their leisure time
indulging in hobbies or they spend it in acquisition. Such things
may give them a little satisfaction but do not make them any better:
they do not discover any profound truth thereby. The Swami didn't
want that. Of course he wanted people to have a decent living, a decent
house and some enjopment. But he wanted them very soon to rise above
that material level to the dignity of their own inner being, spiritual
dignity. He wanted even the common man to rise to that dignity; he
did not want anyone to stop halfway. He wanted all men and women -
in the East and in the West - to rise towards that. That was his aspiration.
Therefore one of his great teachings was, 'Go from door to door,
the door of the poor as well as the rich, of the young and the old,
of the learned and the ignorant; and to everyone say, "You are infinite,
you are eternal. In you is the infinite power. You are free. You are
divine."' He wanted us to teach this truth to everyone, to tell them
all that they are divine. That is what he meant by worshipping man as God.
---------------------------------
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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 12:34:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: "E. Lamb" <jyotsna2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Airport
Back to Amma's arrival in Seattle...
After Amma arrived at the airport and we watched her
drive away (as recounted earlier), another devotee,
C, and I walked back into the baggage claim area to
collect the people we were transporting to Bipin's
house.
We were stopped by an older Indian man who asked,
"Who is this who is coming?" Not sure why he was
asking, I decided to assume that he wanted to know
for "good" reasons, i.e. perhaps he would be
interested in Amma. So I said it was Mata
Amritanandamayi, and C. said "Ammachi." So he seemed
interested and asked if she was from India, etc.
Then he said, "Well, miracles happen, but She can't
save you from your sins; only Jesus Christ can do
that!"
With recognition dawning in my eyes, I said, "Oh,
you're a South Indian Christian!"
"No," he said, and started going into how his
family had been Muslim and Hindu, and then
continuted, "but thank God my grandfather discovered
Jesus Christ. You were raised here in that truth
and have forsaken it for a false teaching," etc.
C and I were polite, but then I said, "We don't
see it that way." And C added gently, "Everyone
has to follow their own path." And we went on
to baggage claim. C and I assured each other that
we consider ourselves Christian.
It's my experience that hardly anyone is less
respectful of our freedom of choice in religious
matters and seems to feel more threatened by Amma's
international following than Christians from India.
Almost all the people I know from the west who have
gone to Amma's ashram have been approached.
Jyotsna
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