Edited by author 09-14-2001 12:12 AM
I've read your other posts Peter and Andrius. I haven't had a chance to think about them or explore. Intriguing though. Off-topic, I've always thought that QT would be a good way to add possible discussions to any thought-node in The Brain. I mentioned it to Jerry Michalski, but he didn't pick up on it.

Edited by author 09-14-2001 09:31 PM
Cool! The test thread is now showing up at My Userland's aggregator:

http://my.userland.com/viewChannel$4644

Thanks to Jake at Userland for putting it through the approval process.

Now to make those headlines a little more interesting... :-)

I'm wondering if I should include the first sentence as a description.

Here are some properties a thread-object (say, do we still get to use the "threadsML" moniker for this thing?) might want to preserve. (I've put the iffier ones are towards the end.)

thread name (human readable!)
thread owner/administrator
thread start date
thread closed/open (= new msgs accepted or not)
thread closed date
thread/msg public/private
who has permission to read thread/msg [I don't know how to handle this]
who has permission to contribute to thread/msg [ditto]
attachments
language
description/topic
category
rating [R, PG-13, etc.]
sponsor
importance [urgent, etc.]

Just a starter list...

Oh dear! Somehow or other I got knocked off the notify-by-email system for this thread. I'd thought the project had died but I'm glad to see there's still life.

My friend Morbus Iff (creator of AmphetaDesk) pointed me here, and also pointed out that Steve has a session at the P2P Conference scheduled:

http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/p2pweb2001/view/e_sess/2125

I'm hoping to attend that conference (I'm definitely interested in it now), so let me know if there's anything I can do and feel free to post an update on how things are coming.

Good to hear from you, Aaron. Hope to see you there -- my mug is on this page; so you might have a chance to spot me in the crowd: http://www.quicktopic.com/acknowledge.html

I'll be there around noon on the 7th and flying out that evening.

Edited by author 11-04-2001 09:57 AM
I've asked the conference folks to post the abstract too, but here it is for now (thanks to David for editorial work):

Message threads -- conversations -- are at the core of much of the Internet's value, but until now they haven't been given the status of objects. The lack of a message thread exchange standard has kept the Net's conversational currents apart. An implemented standard will make it easy, for example, to escalate any instant messaging session or email interchange into any threaded discussion forum. In this session, we will for the first time discuss "threadsML", a standard under development that will give us the power to save any conversation, move it to another venue, share it as a whole, aggregate it with other message flows, attach it to any web object, or intelligently archive it for reference ("grassroots knowledge management"). This session will present the status of threadsML and will discuss the role of distributed web services in supporting the intended result of universal flexible, portable conversations.

Forgive me if I'm restating the obvious...two points...

First, I've always thought that individual messages should be able to live on more than one thread. For example, a thread is started by a newbie to ask "how to X". Discussion ensues and someone finally writes up a "good" answer. An administrator should be able to link that good answer into a FAQ thread for permanent reference, without removing it from the thread on which it first appeared.

Second (which I think you are already considering), is that it should be simple to CC: the thread on an email and have the email added as a message to the thread.

/m96 The inclusion of a msg on more than one thread is an important feature for the std to capture. It should be able to share the msg as a link or as the actual content.

The second point you raise is important but, as I understand it, is a feature to be implemented by an application (say, a mail reader or discussion manager). Since threadsML would capture the addresses of the contributors to the thread, the information would be there for the application to use in the way you describe.

Edited by author 11-18-2001 03:02 PM
Hello All,
I am very interested in the issues being discussed here. Instead of writing a very long intro post, let me give the basics. I will stay up to date on new postings and try to be as active as I can.

My company is http://www.GAZM.org . Our tagline is "Constant Intellectual Stimulation." Our first website went live in January of 2001 (http://www.GAZM.org/Previous). It went offline with the Sep 11 attacks (the server was down there). Instead of rushing to get the site online I took a month to rethink things. The previous site was Flashy, got a lot of press (http://www.GAZM.org/news.html) and some cool partners (New Line, 20th Century Fox, Absolut, etc.). However, it didn't really achieve my vision for the company.

I want GAZM.org to be a place where people can share and collaborate on their creativity and imagination. I want to make money by creating strong relationships between users and companies. For example, our first partner, HMV Record Stores, instead of putting up a crappy ad saying "come buy music," launched on GAZM the world's first "Living Music Chart." Users voted on a constantly-changing music chart and the top 5 vote-getters every 2 weeks went on sale in all HMV stores (in special GAZM displays). It was very cool and got a lot of attention - moreso than any run of the mill ad campaign would ever get.

Right now - I am no longer working with those who worked on the previous site. I built what you see now online MYSELF. I am neither a programmer nor a designer. I am now interviewing and working with professionals to make it better and improve upon the technology. This new site is getting daily what the old site would get in a week. People like it. The site allows anyone to upload their creations and leave any message they want. No accounts, no ads, no crap. Obviously as part of the process I will have to introduce things like accounts and ads but I never want to repeat the old site's short-comings.

So what I am most interested in researching are interesting navigation methods for user uploads and using ThreadsML for a more robust discussion forum (instead of the current glorified guestbook).

Ok, sorry for writing such a long post after I said I wouldn't. I hope I was able to convey who I am and what I'm looking for. GAZM is a playground for the mind and I am open to experimenting with interesting and provocative navigation and inspiration technologies.
All the best,
Jacob Shwirtz
AIM: Shwirtz

Jocob, what I saw was impressive (to say the least :)

If you have an email list regarding your sites, please do put bernies@mergetel.com on it. I'd like - often need - to be reminded of those websites I'd like to return to.

Hi,
ThreadsML is really a good idea. I also saw the XML format(RSS 1.0 with some namespaces) that QuickTopic is supporting right now.
I have a question regarding this standard. This standard can only support a message board that don't have multi-level threads (I mean, no sub threads), like the ones in QuickTopic. But say, if I already have a message board which has this sub-threads format then how can I use this standard.
Please let me know that whether this Threading standard has multi-level threads support.

Thanx in advance,
Amit

Amit ( /m60 ) - Yes, the aim of threadsML is to support hierarchical, nested, multi-level threads as well as flat threads such as QuickTopic. That support will be in the very first version of the standard.

Hello,

In the next few weeks my website will be making the giant leap from ASP to PHP. In translating the existing code we will be adding a slew of new features. I am wondering if this process can include a migration to ThreadsML. Here is my non-programmer head speaking - is the standard ready to be implemented? Is it still "under construction"? Is it ready for me to actually use on my user-generated content website?

Keep fighting the good fight,
Jacob Shwirtz
http://www.GAZM.org

The standard is still under construction, but don't let that stop you. I recommend early experimentation similar to what's implemented here (add .rss to any topic URL and you'll see). This represents individual linear threads. Tracking inter-thread relationships will likely be just a superset of that.

Edited by author 02-28-2002 06:27 AM
I know I'm late in the discussion, but I think David's article touches upon a great point. In my few years' work within KM, I have arrived at the conclusion that the survivability and portability of a discussion thread is a critical success factor of any online community.

As a matter of fact I've been working for some time on a discussion engine which would store everything in XML - and only in XML, one thread per XML file, in human-readable file structure, to support that principle.

The advantages are obvious:

1. Wanna move threads to another site? Just grab all your XML files and off you go.
2. Wanna move a thread to an FAQ? Just copy the thread file to the FAQ directory and it's done.
3. Wanna make a personal backup of a forum? FTP down your XML files. Ready!
4. Wanna start a thread with a news article? Just copy that article to the forum directory and you have your thread.

For those who are interested, I there is a test version going "Live" at http://ipmsstockholm.org/forum/test/ Most messages there are in Swedish, but please feel free to test and your own messages if you like. If there is more interest, I can also show you my XML storage format.

Martin Waligorski
mailto:martin.waligorski@guide.se

Edited by author 02-28-2002 09:07 AM
I like the sentiment behind your implementation, Martin. We're here to propose and work for agreement on an XML standard so threads can be exchanged between all complying apps. You'll see in this thread that we're heading towards an implementation based on RSS 1.0, which is RDF-based.

Any contributions you might have on the standard in particular are welcome.

This has nudged me to post a summary of where I think we are -- coming shortly.