Welcome to the Team Atlantis Message Board! Use this space to post your theories about Atlantis and related topics and we'll be sure to answer your questions as much as possible and engage you in a challenging conversation. Let's go!

i saw the documentary which proposed that there was a lost civilisation that was destroyed at the end of the ice age by rising tides due to melting of ice caps at end of last ice age. It was an extraordinary theory but on examination it was very plausible. I think however there may however have been a series of empires of civilisations that were destroyed with concurrent technology. Though it was hard to accept that astronomical links between Giza, Angkor and Easter Island was coincidental. My question is this, firstly, do you think that the Biblical story of Genesis makes references to this, firstly Noahs flood story, which is a recurring theme in many cultures, but also the Tower of Babbel, (especially in light of the fact that many structure in the mayan civilisation are only noticeable by air, and also the story of God commanding Abraham to sacrifrice Isaac and then sparring him ( in light of the fact that Human sacrifice seemed to be an integral part of this Mayan civilisation. and if there was one dominant empire then this custom must have been known about in the near east) ThanK you

Posted by TANYA SIMS on June 11, 19101 at 09:32:55:

In Reply to: John Anthony West's criticism posted by Roger Stritmatter on May 26, 1999 at 10:39:22:

I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN INTRIGUED WITH EGYPT (kemit) BECAUSE MY GRANDMOTHER AND GREAT GRANDMOTHER WAS FROM EGYPT, WHAT WE NOW KNOW TODAY AS SUDAN. I HAVE ALWAYS FELT IN MY HEART THAT MY ANCESTORS STORIES HAVE BEEN DISTORED AND LOST AMONGST THE YEARS. WHEN I SAW THE MYSTERIES OF THE SPHINX ON THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, I WAS SO GLAD THAT I STARTED CRYING. EGYPT HAS HAD ALOT OF INFLUENCES FROM GREEKS, PERSIANS, AND ARABS. EGYPT IS IN AFRIKA AND YET IS NOT CONSIDERED AFRICAN IN ANY ASPECT WHATSOEVER. EGYPT IS A GREEK NAME GIVEN TO KEMIT MEANING BLACK, SUDAN IS AN ARABIC WORD MEANING BLACK, KUSH IS A WORD MEANING "BURNT FACE", AND THE WRITING SYSTEM WE KNOW AS HIEROGLYPHICS WAS CALLED "MEDU NETER OR MDW NTR" A WRITING SYSTEM WITHOUT VOWELS. KEMIT WAS A POWERFUL PLACE THAT PROBABLY HAD ALL THE ANSWERS TO LIFE AND OUR BEING, SO YOU CAN SEE HOW EVERYONE WANTED TO BE THE ORIGINATORS OR SHOULD I SAY MANIPULATORS. EVERY RELIGON BIRTHED FROM KEMIT, EVEN THE CHRISTIAN STORY OF THE BIRTH OF JESUS SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE THE STORY OF OSIRIS, ISIS, AND THEIR SON HORUS. THERE IS ALOT OF REDATING AND REWRITING HISTORY TO DO. ANOTHER ISSUE THAT COULD REWRITE HISTORY IS A DYNASTY CALLED TA-SETI DISCOVERED IN 1962, THAT IS OLDER THAN THE 1ST ASSUMED DYNASTY IN EGYPT. IT CONSISTED OF TWELVE PHAROAHS AND WAS LOCATED IN WHAT WE NOW KNOW AS NUBIA. THE PYRAMIDS IN NUBIA (MEROE) IS OLDER THAN THE PYRAMIDS OF GIZA. THE KINGDOM OF KUSH WAS ALSO PUT UNDER WATER BY BUILDING THE ASWAN HIGH DAM. WAS THIS DONE TO HIDE A PIECE OF HISTORY? AFRIKA DID NOT HAVE ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT NAMES THAT DEFINED HER LIKE ETHIOPIA, SOMALIA, SUDAN, EGYPT, ETC. THERE WAS ONLY ONE NAME KEMIT (THE BLACK LAND). THEY ALSO CALLED IT TAMA-RE (THE BELOVED LAND) AND TAWI THE TWO LANDS (UPPER AND LOWER EGYPT).

WADU (GOODBYE)
AND
HOTEP (PEACE)

TANYA RAMUN

Posted by andreas on March 14, 2000 at 11:41:03:

In Reply to: Re: ANY ONE GOT ANY IDEA HOW DOES ATLANTIS LOOK LIKE? posted by G.J. de Jong on June 28, 1999 at 09:50:19:

: If you really want to no how Atlantis looked:

: - consider Cuzco as the Capital, (the Inca's were not the first inhabitants);
: - consider the holy mountain El Fuerte, Samaipata, Bolivia as the mythical temple of Poseidon which was described by Plato; It refers directly to the period Plato described (Age of Leo); when the disaster took place;
: - all the elements of Genesis (the Bible) can be found as geoglyphs in the plain of Nasca or as the aymaran legend tells: we carried the cross from the mountain (El Fuerte) to the sea (between South America and Asia. Atlantis is South-America and all the evidence is still there.

can you please send me some more information about what you are saying?
any book suggestions??
thank you

Posted by sunil on March 19, 19100 at 04:09:45:

In Reply to: THE LOST CONTINENT OF MU? posted by Dee Finney on July 22, 1998 at 19:56:20:

: Hello everyone: When we came to this site, the underwater scenes were incredible, but what excited us even more was the photo of the eldery gentleman and his tattoo in comparison with the stone. The stone shows the same picture as Tablet 1231 in Col. James Churchwards' 'The Sacred Symbols of Mu'.

: Churhward states: This cross is the most valuable writing which has come down to us from the First civilization both as regards religion and science. This cross tells us that all Forces throughout the Universe have their origin in the Deity. That these forces are controlling life and all movements of matter down to the atom and particles of atoms, either directly or indirectly. It shows us that the Forces called Atomic Forces are only indirect workings of Primary Forces through Atoms. It tells us how the Great Primary Forces are working in a manner to maintain regular and perfect movements of each and every body throughout the Universe.

: All of the arms of this cross are symbols of the Primary Forces coming from and out of the Deity. All of these arms or Forces are pointing towards the East - the four form a circle. Therefore, the Primary Forces are all working in a circle from a Center and proceeding in an Easterly direction.

: There is no explanation as to where this stone was found. How did the elderly gentlemen get the tattoo that matches it exactly?

: If what we suspect is true, this Atlantis team should be renamed the teamMU.

: Dee

Posted by Dave on April 23, 19100 at 14:15:09:

In Reply to: Re: Atlantis or Lemuria? posted by eduardo alarco on January 15, 19100 at 18:33:24:

cool beans!

: : Sobre mirar estos cuadros asombrosos para la primera vez,
: perplexed me para descubrir que hay arqueólogos: y geólogos que
: insisten que estos monumentos subacuáticos son naturales en origen.
: Juan Uniforme Anthony Del oeste: y el suyo geólogo Roberto Schoch,
: partidarios de largo plazo del asociado de la teoría que sirvieron la
: historia del civillization: no originó en el Nilo, todavía no
: validan que este sitio es todo menos natural. Aún más inusual es:
: despido casi total de esta historia por los media, especialmente en el
: oeste. Pero plantearía esta pregunta: Si somos: de hecho mirando
: el restos de un civillization antiguo perdido largo debajo de las
: ondas de Japón, que uno es él? Atlantis o Lemuria (Mu)? Diría
: Lemuria.

Posted by Sam Dugas on May 27, 19100 at 03:25:51:

In Reply to: Re: Origin of Yonaguni posted by Nancy Wang on August 26, 1999 at 21:21:59:

Has there been any follow-up?

: I wonder if anyone had considered the possibility that the structures were built by the ancient Chinese (or pre-Chinese) civilisation. Historically Okinawa actually belonged to China, under the name of Ryu-Kyu, until the U.S.A. gave it to Japan after WWII. There has been archeological evidence dug up in nearby Taiwan that Taiwan was once connected to mainland China. Maybe Okinawa was also?

Posted by ovidiu on September 14, 19100 at 05:47:34:

In Reply to: archaelogical site off Yonaguni Island. posted by Carlos Rendon on November 08, 1998 at 15:51:07:

: How old are the ruins off Yonaguni Island, any details.

Posted by Kevin Kavanagh on September 24, 19100 at 04:30:15:

In Reply to: John Anthony West's criticism posted by Roger Stritmatter on May 26, 1999 at 10:39:22:


: I'm intrigued that both Graham Hancock and John Anthony West, both of whom are authors who can make the incredible seem quite credible, through the force of their intellects and powers as wordsmiths, have been involved in investiaging the site. What was the basis for John Anthony West's conclusion that the supposed ruins are a natural formation, and what is the rebuttal by TeamAtlantis members. I apologize if this question has already been asked and answwered -- I haven't taken the time to review all the threads before posting, which may be bad netiquette, but time is of the essence here. Thanks in advance for anyone who will answer this question. I'm taking scuba diving lessons this summer and would love to join you'll soon.

: Roger Stritmatter
long before John Anthony West was even heard of
in my world, I had the same idea of our pre-
history. A time forgotten but not completely lost.
If we had a major catastrophe in our world today,
a musame and,or meteorite big enough to wipe out
most coastal cities and given a thousand years, I
can guarentee there wouldn't be a trace of our
world left to view. Civilisations come and go all
the time, even in todays world. Why is it so hard
to believe a world like ours existed prior to
10,000 years ago. This is a living planet and like
all living things, we must regenerate, recycle,
change and grow to live another day. I'm sure if
we dug deep enough without so much sceptimism and
ignorance, we may find a few surprises under all
that earth of 10,000 years. Stick a T.V. or a
refridgerator under the ground for just 5,000 years
I'll bet you won't be able to identify it. We may
think we're polluting our earth to no return, but
in natural fact, we're pushing her to an early
process of regeneration of a chaotic proportion,
thus recreating a new habitat where everything
is new again. Sounds nice and we do have the
choice of doing it without losing lives in such
an abrupt manner, unfortunately who's going to
listen to what seems to me to be logical.
Thanks for listening. Kevin

Posted by Mark Kane on September 28, 19100 at 14:48:43:

In Reply to: Re: archaelogical site off Yonaguni Island. posted by JOe on August 16, 2000 at 22:13:49:

The next time I visit Yonaguni I will dive this site. I visited there three years ago when I ran their half marathon.....thought I could dive then but since I couldn't walk after the race for a few days I couldn't make it.

Posted by angel crespo montalvo on October 31, 19100 at 14:09:50:

In Reply to: Re: Mineral Samples posted by M. Andrews on October 27, 1998 at 11:14:31:

: Has the rock of which the monument is composed been identified yet? Obviously, for the structure to be natural the layering will have to be attributable to some natural process related to the type of rock. Is there a complete chart of the whole structure in existence yet?

Posted by Truth seeker on October 04, 1998 at 04:19:22:

In Reply to: Hancock and Bauval posted by Joe Foster on July 24, 1998 at 11:48:20:


On Dr. Zahi Hawass's web site there appears a statement allegedly written by Robert Bauval which states that there are no conspiracies, hidden agendas or secret explorations at Gizza.etc.

How is it possible to check whether he has actually made the statement or not??

Posted by Andrew Jordan on July 24, 1998 at 12:09:19:

I am a flight attendant for American Airlines. Our crew had the pleasure to have Dr.James Hurtak and webmaster Matthew Sapero on our flight 7/23/98. Flight 29 was delayed due to mechanical...Dr. Hurtak and Mr sapero had a very tight connection to connect with Singapore airlines. We helped by calling ahead and working with a tema effort to make sure they would not miss the connection and therefore forfeit their part of the expedition. The Japanese govt. has a tight departure schedule for leaving on time. All works out....there enlightenment of the work to be done and the history lessons along the way to LA has won advocacy among our crew members. We wish TEAM ATLANTIS the best and we are passing the information along to 30,000 employees plus at AMerican Airlines to join in on the great adventure. Thanks again to Dr. Hurtak and
Matthew Sapero for the seeds they planted within us....

Posted by Jared Jaffey on August 26, 1999 at 14:12:29:

In Reply to: Atlantis, The Lost Continent Finally Found posted by T. Grisham-White on August 03, 1998 at 07:31:04:

: "If you want to learn how Atlantis came to be located in the South China Sea and how its connection with the cataclysmic end of the Pleistocene Ice Age and the consequent rise of sea level that submerged the Lost Continent, as well as on the eminent Professor from Brazil who made this important discovery, which all are now rushing to appropriate, visit the below site:

Posted by Roxy on August 24, 1999 at 15:49:28:

In Reply to: Technology posted by Franz Hegele on August 24, 1999 at 02:42:10:


: -Also in Gizeh/ Egypt you can find examples for "impossible" craftsmanship:
: The inside of the sarkophag in Cheop's Pyramid has absolutely no visible, or sensible traces of crafting,
: of chisels or the like, it is absolutely even right into its very corners, like three glass panes rectangularly joined together.
: But it is made from one solid block of granite.

: The Granite blocks of the "Great Temple" are manufactured & joined in the same amazing accuracy.

: It could be interesting to examine the "inner" surfaces of this structure, which have been protected from erosion, for traces
: of grinding or polishing, in order to conclude on the technical skills of its makers.
: And the examination of organic matter sealed between these surfaces could allow for a determination of the temple's age.

: rgds.

: franz

Dear Franz,
I know what you mean about the prescion of the pyramids! I don't think we can even achieve that level of accuracy with such monolithic blocks with todays technology, so how scholers insist that the egyptions used thousands of slaves to do it is beyond rational thought!!!

The buildings in Peru also have amazing craftmans ship and accuracy that would be hard to achieve in todays standards!
It begs the question as to whether we are the most advanced civilisation that science has led us to believe.....I think not!!!

luv Roxy

Posted by Tzarri on August 16, 1999 at 15:59:48:

The work being done by Robert Bauvel and Graham hancock is ground breaking and I only wish more people could recognise the importance of some of the findings.
why should our civilisation be considered the most intelligent and sucessful that has ever existed? Humans don't know what was held in the history of life and of the planet! we don't "know" what happend thousands of years ago, We can only guess using whatever science we have as to what we "think" must have happend. Yet still, modern scholers refuse to listen to any evidence which might suggest that what we "thought" happend in pre history is actually wrong.
We can never hope to learn anything if we ignore evidence because it poses to many new questions or because it questions what has been taught for many years! The only truth is that we have no hope of ever fully understanding the past and the world around us if we ignore things we don't like the sound of!
If I believe anything it is that human ignorance of information that poses a threat to their beliefs or supposed "knowledge" will be the downfull of man kind.
The only way to gain true enlightenment is to take an open and un-opinionated appraoch.
Anything could have happend over the course of history, we don't know for certain what happend and guessing without considering all possiblities is no way to build knowledge or beliefs, merely half truths or incorrect assumptions.
My only message is that we should all open our eyes to the world around us, life isn't about going to the pub on weekends and making money, going to school and buying clothes..there is so much we don't understand and so much for us to learn, and yet so many people live in their set little lives happy or unhappy never venturing to think about what the world is about.
This must seem really heavy and somewhat physcho but I only speak true to how I feel, There is vast information out there for us to learn if only we were brave enough to accept the answers it gives us.
If anyone wishes to contact me for any information on Graham and Robert then please do so, I have researched into these areas for years and would be happy to answer any questions..its truley amazing some of the findings, and there is a whole lot of evidence to back them up!
Tzarrifox@hotmail.com

Posted by Gilbert de Jong on August 15, 1999 at 12:13:55:

In Reply to: Origin of Yonaguni posted by Travis Mucklow on August 07, 1999 at 22:50:36:

Hi, I believe this civilisation is not lost but overlooked. Yonaguni might be as old as Cuzco, the Inca capital. How can Plato describe the Inca temples near Cuzco and Samaipata (The oldest on the continent) if we believe the Inca's started their empire in 1300 AD???.
Plato mentions the bridge of islands between Atlantis and Asia and is actually describing the period of the world at the end of Ice-age. There seem to be inscriptions of continents on the pre-inca temple of El Fuerte, Bolivia. These continents must have been measured by the Inca's before the rising of the sea level at the end of Ice-age. My website is under construction but you can find some information on El Fuerte (the oldest parts are probably made in the age of Leo):
www.humanrevelations.com

Posted by Ayla on August 14, 1999 at 16:39:23:

In Reply to: Re: Heavens Mirror posted by Ayla on August 14, 1999 at 16:34:45:

: : : : Ive recently read in Graham Hancock's "Heavens Mirror" that Robert Schoch is undecided about the artificiality of the monument.........has he come to a more definite decision yet???.......thanks Andy

: : : Dr. Schoch's view has evolved somewhat. Without speaking for him, I think it's fair to say he now has a much more detailed analysis and far more to chew on far-reaching implications.

: : : Watch for his article on the subject coming soon to this site.

: : : We'll let you know when it is up.

: : If nobody objects, I wouldn't mind hearing about it myself. And pardon my botched follow-up / reply to the "seahorse query" ... I didn't quite catch the drift of the colon marks :)

Would anyone happen to know if it is possible to get a copy of Heavens mirror on video tape as I missed some of it when it was on the telly. I would be gratefull for any info.

Posted by Apostolos Gatsias on August 14, 1999 at 14:24:45:

In Reply to: Origin of Yonaguni posted by Travis Mucklow on August 07, 1999 at 22:50:36:

: The only possibility in that period is to be Yonaguni from Ionian Gen-os,-ancient Greek place like proff. Josephson in Heidelberg wrote about in his book Hellenicum Passificum, Greek linguistic elements in Polynesian languages, see and in DAYLOS july 1999.

Posted by To:Darius on August 08, 1999 at 03:23:59:

In Reply to: Re: man may not have evolved on Earth. posted by Darius on August 03, 1999 at 20:16:05:

: Not a bad theory, and the Noah's ark thing is intriguing. But I think you hurt your argument by making that comment about five toes versus three toes. There's nothing scientific about those kind of associations. Do the three-toed and two-toed sloths come from different planets? Are all cleft toed creatures really Venusians? I don't mean to be facetious, I'm just making the point that if you're offering up a scientific hypothesis, you'll better serve your arguments by clean of such "associative" corroboration.

: The other point I'd make is that about the only creatures that haven't evolved in the last 65 million years are the ones you mention, namely sharks and several kinds of insects. You should look it up and you'll see what I mean.

: But that doesn't have to hurt your theory -- you only have to revise it. There's no reason why there couldn't have been a whole set of species already on earth, to which were added in the "ark" man and several others. But believe me, there's been a lot of evolution in the last 65 million years.

Hi Darius
Actually your right and I'm also, in saying evolution moves forward and stays put also. Plus remember that once other
world species arrive here that the process of evolution can continual.
However some species ie.Humans and others need not evolve further.
There are frogs ie. many amphibians and reptiles ie. gilamonster plus a host of fish and mammals ie. tree shrews who haven't evolved any further.
The toe (five vs.three) item was thrown in as a curiosity and was aimed more at bipeds then at quadrapeds.
The first chapters of the Bible (Genesis) seems to describe just such a space trip.
And it gave rise (in my mind) to the notion of the use of space travel ie. the real Noahs ark.
The flood event that many elude to may have come much later in time.
And in fact, could be tied to Atlantis sinking or drowning due to rising ocean levels ie. melting ice?
No firm agreed upon date has been announced within the academic community for the flood time line.
But the BON FIRE theory is a very quick thumbnail sketch and is nowhere detailed enough to talk in depth about yet.
I'm writing a book in very detailed levels that will bring much more meaning to this theory in the near future.
Thankyou for the reply. I do very much appreciate it.

Yours
Mike Smeltzer

Posted by Travis Mucklow on August 07, 1999 at 22:50:36:

If Yonaguni is man-made, and it certainly appears to be, then the only point in time it could have been built above water is before the end of the last ice age, around 9,000 to 10,000 B.C. What this means, of course, is that history is wrong, and there was a yet undiscovered civilization way before we believe.

Posted by Jon Conkey on August 06, 1999 at 00:17:06:

In Reply to: Atlantis or Lemuria? posted by James Aronis on July 23, 1998 at 10:47:09:

I'm not suprised by skepticism on Lemuria (Mu)or even Plato's account of Atlantis ( Atzland ). However, when the western and european scholars tire of reading and expounding on the same sources we've all had access to for years, perhaps they should look elsewhere for their keys and not rely on the book learned archives aspect of research as their only arsonal with which they continually over use. I personally have knowledge I've yet to see in print that could help so many scholars with this particular topic but have no outlet to reach these folks. Let me say this, the answer lies in not one source but many. JON CONKEY

Posted by Ian Hutcheon on August 01, 1999 at 16:44:06:

In Reply to: fear controls history, history confuses man! posted by GERALD MCKENNEY on August 15, 1998 at 23:13:00:

: Hello everyone!
: Fabulous,informative,truthful and challenging insight to man's early dominion of the planet earth. Truly an opportunity of a lifetime. Many people will draw their own conclusions and lie to themselves out of fear for the unknown......living in denial, as it were or is.
: Consume this:
: "The Book of Truth or The Voice of Osirus", brought forth or published by The Order of the Knights Templars of Aquarius; written in 1925, Nov. 1st through Dec. 11th through an inspiration from EL EROS(H.C. Randall-Stevens) Ihave the 4th edition
: ,printed in '56.
: This book has a crude but possibly convincing map or line drawing of what maybe the maps of Lemuria and Atlantis.
: Lemuria lies from your current location east at a mild southern angle to Easter Island before it curves north to and near the Mexican penninsula,back towards Hawaii,,passing it at southeasterly to northwesterly angle towards the Aleutians curving back to Japan.
: Lemurians were Yevahics. A race developed by Satanaku. His own people/creation. Utterly evil.

: .
: Alantis lies off Biminni to the briefly towards Africa and around the Azores.The northern end has a bit of a mushroom cap and heads off to New York,switches back to the center of the Atlantic and straight back to Biminni. .Atlantis, was inhabited by the cream of Lemuria and Dhuman-Adamics, blessed and made free by El Daoud-Evam. God.
: Anyway, it reads well and seems to correlate itself well to the many roads of religion and foundations of man,is definately thought-provoking.

: To those that think it's natural, so are those 6 pyramids in the forbidden zone in China,strewn about like Orion www.Lauralee.com; or the Sphinx and statues in the southern Rockies at www.Ghostwolf.com.

Posted by Mike Smeltzer on July 25, 1999 at 06:35:23:

I have a pet theory I've been playing with for several years. I call it the BON FIRE THEORY.
This theory ties some anomalies together, like the lack of a true missing link of modern man, a satellite that
is too big for the planet it orbits (our moon), our variable G type sun, ancient formations see on Mars, the
formation of the asteroid belt, and the sudden but not complete extinction of the dinosaurs.

To start... let me state that I believe mankind (in his present form) is over 65 million years old. The reason
is simple, we have reached and evolutionary plateau ( sharks, insects and other life forms found in the
fossil record of 65 to over 150 million years old show no changes when compared to the present ) and
because we and other animals have adapted to many climatic situations we to have no need to evolve
any further. I believe man came from a planet which is now the asteroid belt. Man used Mars as a outpost
planet (this was during a time when the sun's output was greater than it is now) meaning the Mars was
much warmer and wetter, than it is now.
How this planet (fifth from the sun) was destroyed is a mystery to me. But the mystery could be solved
once we start exploring the belt.
(a side note.... we have five fingers and toes, fifth planet? Dinosaurs had three fingers and toes, third
planet? a genetic signature indicating planet placement?).
Because of either some mystery or and act of deliberation on the behalf of someones... the fifth planet
was destroyed. Even with the fifth planet destroyed, man didn't become extinct, he and those animal spec-
ies he considered important would survive.
So man moved to Mars... where he stayed bred, built, created and lived for many millions
of years.
Then over a period of time our stars output began to decrease, leaving Mars a cold, airless and waterless
(frozen) place.
Mankind needed a new home. So (and I feel here) that all of those people who wanted to move, along with
his technology and those animal species were transported (in mass, the real Noahs ark?) to a cooling but
very wild and thriving Earth. However to move that much (a whole planets worth) a spaceship of great size
was needed. Than ship turned out to be our present moon!

( during the 70's the US and USSR conducted and experiment, basically the US softlanded radio
telemeteric seismographic equipment on the moon. The USSR's part was to slam a 13 ton package
into the surface of the moon at 1 or 3 miles per second. The resulting shock wave swept thru the moons
interior for several hours! Indicating the moon to be somewhat hollow! This was thought to be part of the
real reason for the Apollo space program.)

And YES! I believe man had the technology to hollow out, shuttle up to and then move the moon from
one point in space... and to eventually park the moon in a stable Earth orbit. Only the moon could hold all
that man wished to take with him, to his new world.
During the same time frame, as the move of the moon.... man had to exterminate the dangerous life forms
on the surface of Earth... ie. T-Rex and others. But how to do that economically? Well the moon move
might take several years. So during that time... a suitable chunk of rock was found and launched with just
enought force to cause the extinction of most large dangerous animals, and what didn't die could be clean
ed up by the settling colonist in a mopping up action, with weapons of their choice.
And so about 65 million years ago... began the history of man on his and her new world.
Sounds fantastic! You bet!.... but this helps to fit together a puzzle, its not complete by any means. So if
you can add to it or disprove it.... then go for it!

Posted by DQuinones on July 19, 1999 at 16:03:00:

In Reply to: Re: Atlantis, The Lost Continent Finally Found posted by COOL COOL on July 18, 1999 at 14:40:01:

: : "If you want to learn how Atlantis came to be located in the South China Sea and how its connection with the cataclysmic end of the Pleistocene Ice Age and the consequent rise of sea level that submerged the Lost Continent, as well as on the eminent Professor from Brazil who made this important discovery, which all are now rushing to appropriate, visit the below site:

Posted by charles jacob on July 19, 1999 at 13:37:24:

Anyone know where I can find info on earth's instantaneous poles and the chandler circle?

Posted by Gilbert de Jong on July 15, 1999 at 04:24:30:

Dear Charles,


Some months ago I sent you an e-mail concerning a small ring of monuments all around the world. I would come back on this subject for a while because I got some ideas about this ring of monuments that might have been in the ecliptic once.

From some of your articles concerning Gizeh and Teotihuacan I noticed that there seem to be many similarities as if they share the same roots in calculations. One of the main reasons that I come back to you on this subject is because I read (studied) Garcilaso de la Vega 's Royal Commentaries (RC)of the Inca's last months.
According to de La Vega ruled the first Inca King about 500/600 before his time but I got a strong feeling this date is not correct. The reason for that is because Plato gives us a description of what is named 'Atlantis' and his story shares many similarities between Atlantis and the (first) Inca Kingdom.

There's a lot of mystery about what Atlantis really was. I noticed that de La Vega is writing about the Antis (Andes). Atlantis is possibly Atl-Antis or Andes Island (Do you know if Atl is used for Island in these indian lanquages for that might explain the word Atlantis as Andes Island. (Atol = Coral Island)

I noticed that the temple El Fuerte in Samaipata had two periods of Inca occupation (excavations by Albert Meijers, University of Bonn). On the south side of this temple are 10 large niches that seemed to have contained large (golden) statutes of Inca' kings. Than there is a gap and then there are some more niches as if these were built later. In de La Vega's Royal Commentaries there are many links to this holy mountain. It must have been one of the most important temples on the Island together with the temple in Cuzco. Both seemed to be described by Plato as well and that is the point that I think there are some misunderstandings in dating the first Inca rulers.

Let us assume Plato is right and Atlantis is destroyed about 9200 BC. I think there are some hints in the RC that are useful for a better understanding how the world was civilised if we accept that there were in fact two Inca Kingdoms. The First Inca Kingdom might have had 10 kings (Plato mentions the ten kings of Atlantis) and the other three kings ruled just before the Spanish came to Peru. The RC tells about the conquests off these Kings and often refers to the Royal Highway (THE Royal Highway).

Well I had this idea to assume that 'our' ring of monuments were made by these first Inca rulers by following the sun in both directions starting in Cuzco which was as you know the navel of the earth. Reading the RC I came across some names of conquered 'Provinces' that are interesting: Canari, Ancara, Atica. Plato mentions that the people from Atlantis ruled the world from Atlantis to Egypt. De la Vega mentions that the Inca's gave the conquered provinces new names. That would declare why some countries bear the names of small cities or villages in Peru.

De la Vega also mentions that the Inca's built new temples of the sun in these conquered countries and houses for the virgins. He tells us from legends that the Inca's brought civilisation among many tribes. Isn't it a coincidence that civilisation is increasing in the hole world around 10.000 BC?

De la Vega tells us that the Inca's didn't know the Zodiac signs but I'am not sure if they didn't because I found a symbol of Leo in Nasca. Even El Fuerte has an inscription of the Yaguar (or Puma), the South Americain lion on a remarkable place. There are some similarities in the placing of the Sphinx on the Gizeh plateau (Yes, the Sphinx might be on the Royal Highway) and the yaguar inscription on El Fuerte. As you might know the most important day for the Inca's was in June. On this day the rising of Regulus in Leo could be watched just before sunrise on El Fuerte (Gilbert) and in Gizeh (Hancock, Bauval etc.). This must have been around 10.000 BC in the age of Leo.
(King nr. 7 is named Yaguar Inca)

De la Vega talks about a special lanquage that was taught in Cuzco and was for many tribes easy to learn. If this was really in the age of Leo as Plato mentions and the situation on El Fuerte indicates than might this fact, perhaps interesting for you. The pages I am referring to are 393, 403, 404, 406, 409 of the RC Part one (University of Texas Press, Austin & London. 1966).

I 'am suggesting that the Inca's followed the sun (on the Royal Highway) in the time the ocean was navigable until the time major disasters destroyed the bridge of Islands (according Plato). He often mentions the fact that the Inca's left the Royal Highway or refers to provinces on both sides of the Royal Highway. The ring of Islands reaches Japan in Yonaguni (underwatermonuments) that was, I read, connected with Asia during Ice age. (There is a Yonaguni link on the WEB by the Atlantis team). So the rising of the water at the end of the Ice age might have changed the currences of the water among the South Americain coast. In Yonaguni the deepest parts of what might have been a megalihical harbour are about 30 metres under water and they look like man-made terraces. It doesn't seem strange to me that the builders of these quays had to adjust the levels everytime because of the waterrising at the end of the Ice age. Some names in de la Vega's RC are noticable because they often used the name Yupanque (Japan?). One province is named more often: Chinchasuyu (Chin ch a suyu perhaps China). De la Vega gives many names of provinces and tribes and I am making an overview at this moment. If I find time I want to look if there is a relation between the coordinates of for instance the Canarian Islands and Canari in Peru.
(P. Cieza de Léon)

Mango Capac [Manco Capac]
Chicheroca [Sinchi Roca], su hijo
Lloque Yupanque [Llioque Yupangui], su hijo (Inca Lloque Yupanqui)
Capac Yupanque [Capac Yupanqui], su hijo
Mayta Capac, su hijo (Inca Maita Capac)
Yngaroca Inga [Inca Roca Inca], su hijo
Yaguar Guacac Inga Yupanque [Yahuar Huacac Inca Yupangui], hijo mayor. (Inca Yáhuar Huac)
Viracocha Inga [Huiracocha Inca], su hijo. (Inca Viracocha)
Ynga Yupanque Pachacuti Ynca [Inca Yupanqui Pachacutec Inca], hijo menor
Yamque (a) Yupanque
The Inca's were very fine stoneworkers and I believe they made many stone monuments all around the world in this time and perhaps the Sphinx is one of these monuments because there are no references to the builders of the Sphinx but I will probably get stoned for this idea sometime.
De la Vega mentions that the Inca's left landmarks as well but he is not describing them in detail. Maybe he means pyramids (as in China, Japan, Cambodja, New Zealand, England etc.). There is a pyram

Posted by Gilbert de Jong on July 15, 1999 at 04:24:30:

Dear Charles,


Some months ago I sent you an e-mail concerning a small ring of monuments all around the world. I would come back on this subject for a while because I got some ideas about this ring of monuments that might have been in the ecliptic once.

From some of your articles concerning Gizeh and Teotihuacan I noticed that there seem to be many similarities as if they share the same roots in calculations. One of the main reasons that I come back to you on this subject is because I read (studied) Garcilaso de la Vega 's Royal Commentaries (RC)of the Inca's last months.
According to de La Vega ruled the first Inca King about 500/600 before his time but I got a strong feeling this date is not correct. The reason for that is because Plato gives us a description of what is named 'Atlantis' and his story shares many similarities between Atlantis and the (first) Inca Kingdom.

There's a lot of mystery about what Atlantis really was. I noticed that de La Vega is writing about the Antis (Andes). Atlantis is possibly Atl-Antis or Andes Island (Do you know if Atl is used for Island in these indian lanquages for that might explain the word Atlantis as Andes Island. (Atol = Coral Island)

I noticed that the temple El Fuerte in Samaipata had two periods of Inca occupation (excavations by Albert Meijers, University of Bonn). On the south side of this temple are 10 large niches that seemed to have contained large (golden) statutes of Inca' kings. Than there is a gap and then there are some more niches as if these were built later. In de La Vega's Royal Commentaries there are many links to this holy mountain. It must have been one of the most important temples on the Island together with the temple in Cuzco. Both seemed to be described by Plato as well and that is the point that I think there are some misunderstandings in dating the first Inca rulers.

Let us assume Plato is right and Atlantis is destroyed about 9200 BC. I think there are some hints in the RC that are useful for a better understanding how the world was civilised if we accept that there were in fact two Inca Kingdoms. The First Inca Kingdom might have had 10 kings (Plato mentions the ten kings of Atlantis) and the other three kings ruled just before the Spanish came to Peru. The RC tells about the conquests off these Kings and often refers to the Royal Highway (THE Royal Highway).

Well I had this idea to assume that 'our' ring of monuments were made by these first Inca rulers by following the sun in both directions starting in Cuzco which was as you know the navel of the earth. Reading the RC I came across some names of conquered 'Provinces' that are interesting: Canari, Ancara, Atica. Plato mentions that the people from Atlantis ruled the world from Atlantis to Egypt. De la Vega mentions that the Inca's gave the conquered provinces new names. That would declare why some countries bear the names of small cities or villages in Peru.

De la Vega also mentions that the Inca's built new temples of the sun in these conquered countries and houses for the virgins. He tells us from legends that the Inca's brought civilisation among many tribes. Isn't it a coincidence that civilisation is increasing in the hole world around 10.000 BC?

De la Vega tells us that the Inca's didn't know the Zodiac signs but I'am not sure if they didn't because I found a symbol of Leo in Nasca. Even El Fuerte has an inscription of the Yaguar (or Puma), the South Americain lion on a remarkable place. There are some similarities in the placing of the Sphinx on the Gizeh plateau (Yes, the Sphinx might be on the Royal Highway) and the yaguar inscription on El Fuerte. As you might know the most important day for the Inca's was in June. On this day the rising of Regulus in Leo could be watched just before sunrise on El Fuerte (Gilbert) and in Gizeh (Hancock, Bauval etc.). This must have been around 10.000 BC in the age of Leo.
(King nr. 7 is named Yaguar Inca)

De la Vega talks about a special lanquage that was taught in Cuzco and was for many tribes easy to learn. If this was really in the age of Leo as Plato mentions and the situation on El Fuerte indicates than might this fact, perhaps interesting for you. The pages I am referring to are 393, 403, 404, 406, 409 of the RC Part one (University of Texas Press, Austin & London. 1966).

I 'am suggesting that the Inca's followed the sun (on the Royal Highway) in the time the ocean was navigable until the time major disasters destroyed the bridge of Islands (according Plato). He often mentions the fact that the Inca's left the Royal Highway or refers to provinces on both sides of the Royal Highway. The ring of Islands reaches Japan in Yonaguni (underwatermonuments) that was, I read, connected with Asia during Ice age. (There is a Yonaguni link on the WEB by the Atlantis team). So the rising of the water at the end of the Ice age might have changed the currences of the water among the South Americain coast. In Yonaguni the deepest parts of what might have been a megalihical harbour are about 30 metres under water and they look like man-made terraces. It doesn't seem strange to me that the builders of these quays had to adjust the levels everytime because of the waterrising at the end of the Ice age. Some names in de la Vega's RC are noticable because they often used the name Yupanque (Japan?). One province is named more often: Chinchasuyu (Chin ch a suyu perhaps China). De la Vega gives many names of provinces and tribes and I am making an overview at this moment. If I find time I want to look if there is a relation between the coordinates of for instance the Canarian Islands and Canari in Peru.
(P. Cieza de Léon)

Mango Capac [Manco Capac]
Chicheroca [Sinchi Roca], su hijo
Lloque Yupanque [Llioque Yupangui], su hijo (Inca Lloque Yupanqui)
Capac Yupanque [Capac Yupanqui], su hijo
Mayta Capac, su hijo (Inca Maita Capac)
Yngaroca Inga [Inca Roca Inca], su hijo
Yaguar Guacac Inga Yupanque [Yahuar Huacac Inca Yupangui], hijo mayor. (Inca Yáhuar Huac)
Viracocha Inga [Huiracocha Inca], su hijo. (Inca Viracocha)
Ynga Yupanque Pachacuti Ynca [Inca Yupanqui Pachacutec Inca], hijo menor
Yamque (a) Yupanque
The Inca's were very fine stoneworkers and I believe they made many stone monuments all around the world in this time and perhaps the Sphinx is one of these monuments because there are no references to the builders of the Sphinx but I will probably get stoned for this idea sometime.
De la Vega mentions that the Inca's left landmarks as well but he is not describing them in detail. Maybe he means pyramids (as in China, Japan, Cambodja, New Zealand, England etc.). There is a pyramid inscription on El Fuerte (like a Ziqqurat) and the Yaguar symbol is in it.

There's another indication that the Inca's left Peru: according to de la Vega they ruled the four corners of the world. I think it is a misunderstanding that this was South America as archeologists do believe. It seems logic to me that it means exactly what it says: the Inca's brought civilisation with spreading their Sunreligion and teaching all over the world. The story of Adam and Eva was known by the Inca's. On El Fuerte Meyers found foundations of what seem to have been a kind of church. All the Nasca geoglyphs are mentioned in the Genesis story of the Bible. I am willing to believe de la Vega when he talks about the deeds the Inca's did. However I think maybe the power that enforced him not to tell the real time these Inca Kings ruled was named Holy Inquisition. Everything was controlled by the church and de la Vega himself wrote his commentaries in Spain. And of course legends often don't carry a date so many stories might have been told from father to sun without knowing the origin after some while. I think it might bring some new light on the world's civilisation if we are willing to accept the base of the legends about these kings. It would declare why so many pyramids are found on so many places sharing the same measures and who actually made them.

Well I hope you find some time yourself to check the idea that we discovered the Royal Highway of the Inca's and the road to world's civilisation.

With kind regards,


Gilbert de Jong

Posted by Frostbite on July 09, 1999 at 07:05:15:

In Reply to: a break through in origion!!! posted by D.R.C. on October 10, 1998 at 22:26:45:



Ok, like DRC has shown, there are many cultural relations between people from Asia and the American natives, and both cultures could have originated from the sunken lands south of Japan where the Yonaguni monuments are found.

I've been into this kind of research for 2 years now and, reading books written by authors such as Graham Hancock, Alan Alford and Zecharia Sitchin, I'm beginning to see a blurry picture of a world traveller that could have influenced some cultures and religious throughout the ancient world. The Egyptians called him Thoth, the Mayans called him Quetzalcoatl, the Bible refers to him as Enoch.

My interest was ignited when I read about the very real relation that exists between the Great Pyramid at Giza and the Pyramid of the Sun at Teotihuacan. Anyone can compare their measurements and realize that both pyramids have identical base lengths, at 230x230 meters. If we add the four sides of the Great Pyramid's base (230 x 4) and divide the result by its height (146 meters), the result is 2Pi. The same calculation for the Pyramid of the Sun, its four base sides divided by its height, gives us 4Pi as a result.

Egyptian mythology says that Thoth built the Great Pyramid for Isis. Recent evidence indicates that the Great Pyramid could have been inherited from an older civilization in Egypt, and not built by pharaoh Khufu, so it is possible that the myths might have a kernel of truth.

Therefore, we must consider the many parallels that exist between Thoth and Quetzalcoatl. For instance, both are gods of wisdom, magic and knowledge. Both gods are credited for teaching mankind about the calendar, writing, architecture and social manners. Both gods used 52 as a sacred, symbolical number. The angle of the Great Pyramid is 52 degrees and the Mayan calendar features a sacred 52-year period. Ancient speak of how mortals had to play a game of 52 against Thoth; they always lost...

I recently read a book by Graham Hancock called The Sign and the Seal, which deals with the sacred quest for finding the biblical Ark of the Covenant. He said that the Canaanites often compared the biblical character Enoch with the Egyptian god Thoth. It is also possible that the Sumerian god Ninghishzidda might be the equivalent of Thoth also, and Sumerian myth speak of an argument between Ninghishzidda and his brother Marduk. Ninghishzidda then angrily proceeded to go away to another continent. Ninghishzidda was also god of wisdom and knowledge...

Zecharia Sitchin then offered his theory about the origins of many sacred sites in America. The biblical myths speak of the exile of Enoch, and how he went to another land to build a city which he gave his name to. This city is today known as Mexico City, and was called Tenochstitlan before that. T-Enoch-stitlan literally means "The City of Enoch". Remember what the Spanish conquistadores did to the Mayan culture: they destroyed it with orders from the Pope. Perhaps the church was fully aware of the deep connection that exists between Quetzalcoatl, Thoth, Enoch and Ninghishzidda. This relation could pose a serious threat to the historical status quo, and many theories could be put back into question.

Sumerian legends speak of a mining colony, founded by the hero Nimrud. This colony could very well be the Olmecs, which were a negroid race wearing mining helmets. The city of Tiahuanaco could very well be the equivalent of the Sumerian term Ti-ANAKU, meaning "City of Heavenly Stone" or "City of Tin"; tin being a key component for making bronze.

It's only been two years since the beginning of my studies, but already I think that I'm on to something here. The Yonaguni monuments, which are almost certainly artificial, could very well be yet another clue for the hidden, unrecorded history of mankind.

Frosty

Posted by G.J. de Jong on June 28, 1999 at 09:50:19:

If you really want to no how Atlantis looked:

- consider Cuzco as the Capital, (the Inca's were not the first inhabitants);
- consider the holy mountain El Fuerte, Samaipata, Bolivia as the mythical temple of Poseidon which was described by Plato; It refers directly to the period Plato described (Age of Leo); when the disaster took place;
- all the elements of Genesis (the Bible) can be found as geoglyphs in the plain of Nasca or as the aymaran legend tells: we carried the cross from the mountain (El Fuerte) to the sea (between South America and Asia. Atlantis is South-America and all the evidence is still there.

Posted by Gilbert de Jong on June 28, 1999 at 09:35:45:

Plato mentioned a bridge of Islands between Asia and Atlantis (of which I think is South America). Did the Atlantisteam noticed that Yonaguni is part of this bridge? Other Islands on the (very) small ring around the world which have ancient stone monuments are: (starting from Yonaguni to the east): Tinian Island (Marianen Islands), Pohnpei/Pingelap (Fed. States of Micronesia), Mc Kean (Phoenix Islands), Tahiti (French Polynesia), Gambier Island, Pitcairn Island, Easter Island, (possibly st.Felix), South america coast.
I have a theory that all these Islands where once in the plain of the ecliptic. If you drill small holes in an earthglobe (as I did) you will find a ring of monuments all around the world that goes right through The Plateau of Gizeh. The lowest point in this ring seems to be Easter Island. The highest point seems to be in Nepal. Was did the path of the sun in the age of Leo? Last year I travelled to Bolivia to search the temple of Poseidon which was described by Plato. Do you know it really exists and that it seems to refer to the age of Leo. (Leo=Jaguar). Matarani is a very old harbour on the Peruvian coast (as you might know),
there is a legend that says that Matarani was once the harbour of Tiwanacu. If this was the harbour on the Peruvian coast and Plato is right (I bet he is) than Yonaguni can be the harbour on the coast of Asia. By following the sun in these days it might have been easy to reach Asia. Your opiniion?

Posted by gerald mckenney

We can fight over the validity of these monuments or
structures until the 'cows come home'. Doesn't matter.
The earth, through evolution(read-time), has had the opportunity to reverse or flip poles several times. That alone could cause significant global reorganization. I think it would be safe to assume that the continents of Atlantis and Lemuria, were larger and or closer than perhaps thought. and in different hemispheres. Maybe even crossing equatorial latitudes. If water on the planet were truly less, that alone would reshape the coastal areas. One must remember that large scale tectonic plate movement happens in mere seconds or minutes and changes everything, including migrating animals and civilizations.
I do believe that the earth is a planet, in-as-much-as an
organisism or cell in the scope of the universe. As the human body rejects bacteria and heals the infection....'so does the earth'. So;...is it possible that the earth and the sun work together, in complete harmony? Periodically reshaping the heavens, waters and land, to filter out the negative and clense the planets' eco-systems for resettlement and balance.
Though the creator made us for stewardship over the planet, we aren't allowed to destroy it or we destroy ourselves. As we search for answers of the past in these ruins, let us remember that evil remains a mystery, because it is!

Posted by Juan Pedro Medina on June 10, 1999 at 07:11:11:



: : I watched The Learning Channel's (TLC) segment on the Yonaguni monument and was very impressed by what I saw. But it was so little. Will there be a full length video available for purchase detailing the site? I'm one of those armchair archeologists who would love to study what I can to see if I could perhaps put together some theories.

: : Are there any other future programs that will feature Yonaguni?

: Yes, our network feature documentary will be shown in the future. If you are especially interested, feel free to contact the media and encourage them to contact us in order to cover this story. You can certainly speed up the process through individual action.

: Thanks for the interest...we'll keep you posted.

: Michael

:I found your web page very interesting and I would like to know if there is any chance of purchasing
the whole documentary in VHS european domestic system.

Thank you very much


Juan Pedro Medina

Posted by Carlos de Oliveira JUnior


: Hello everyone: When we came to this site, the underwater scenes were incredible, but what excited us even more was the photo of the eldery gentleman and his tattoo in comparison with the stone. The stone shows the same picture as Tablet 1231 in Col. James Churchwards' 'The Sacred Symbols of Mu'.

: Churhward states: This cross is the most valuable writing which has come down to us from the First civilization both as regards religion and science. This cross tells us that all Forces throughout the Universe have their origin in the Deity. That these forces are controlling life and all movements of matter down to the atom and particles of atoms, either directly or indirectly. It shows us that the Forces called Atomic Forces are only indirect workings of Primary Forces through Atoms. It tells us how the Great Primary Forces are working in a manner to maintain regular and perfect movements of each and every body throughout the Universe.

: All of the arms of this cross are symbols of the Primary Forces coming from and out of the Deity. All of these arms or Forces are pointing towards the East - the four form a circle. Therefore, the Primary Forces are all working in a circle from a Center and proceeding in an Easterly direction.

: There is no explanation as to where this stone was found. How did the elderly gentlemen get the tattoo that matches it exactly?

: If what we suspect is true, this Atlantis team should be renamed the teamMU.

: Dee

Posted by Posted by Roger Stritmatter

I'm intrigued that both Graham Hancock and John Anthony West, both of whom are authors who can make the incredible seem quite credible, through the force of their intellects and powers as wordsmiths, have been involved in investiaging the site. What was the basis for John Anthony West's conclusion that the supposed ruins are a natural formation, and what is the rebuttal by TeamAtlantis members. I apologize if this question has already been asked and answwered -- I haven't taken the time to review all the threads before posting, which may be bad netiquette, but time is of the essence here. Thanks in advance for anyone who will answer this question. I'm taking scuba diving lessons this summer and would love to join you'll soon.

Roger Stritmatter

Posted by apurv on May 24, 1999 at 02:14:03:

dear sir
My name is Apurv Saxena. I am 23 year old guy from INDIA. I did my graduation in Physics and Electronics.
Now i am doing my PG in computer application. when i saw ur site i was totally facinated by ur work. I had read a little about this earlier , I like reading about archeology etc.
So sir i Would like to join yr team. If u think i Can be any use to u them please write back to me
Bye for now
Apurv

Posted by Mori on May 22, 1999 at 09:39:34:

Hi,Matthew
How are you doing?
Do you remember me???
I am the scuba diving guy in Yonaguni.
What are you going to do with the next???
I am looking forward to the next research.

Posted by Jerri

In Reply to: Re: Maps. posted by Michael Arbuthnot

: Check out the Piri Reis map image which we've yanked in here!

: Thanks,

: Michael

Michael, I know this book is out of print but might you know of a source? I have been unsuccessful in obtaining a copy for years, or aleast I would love a copy of the map. My husband and I are fascinated with both.Please email me privately
Jerri
jerrdoll@aol.com

Posted by Yutaka,Tanaka

Hi! Everyone,

I came here from the Spirit Web board.
It`s some kind of astonishment here, because I have never heard of the monuments like this in Japan.
But now I don`t know what is this about, it`s vrey interesting definitely.
One of these days I think about the Japanese people origin, mostly I study from the language of Japan.
I found the Japanese language had not letters , we had only pronounciations.
It`s very similar to Atlantis, isn`t it?
Also I study about the real meaning of life and the universe.
But I am only a plain citizen in Japan.
Any other guys from Japan here?

Namaste,
Yutaka,Tanaka

Posted by MoonFire Jackson

Mr.Arbuthnot, I am wondering again if you have considered that these structures are the quarry site for the structures that are still above ground? All of the sites mentioned by DRC (who got blessed to study with Sykes)have a nearby quarry site. The one at the pyramids was covered up by thousands of years of sand. This would not in anyway diminish the validity of your find, as it would still have had to be worked by humans? aliens? I was going to state that the only beings who could use it would have been giants, however, DRC covered it. I would point out that The Christian Bible speaks of giants in the book of Genesis Chapter 6 Verse 4: There were giants in the earth in those days;and also after that,when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

I further wonder if the holes did not hold posts but were the grinding holes of the cooks who fed the people who were excavating the site. It is possible that the trench was used for toileting or some such, however, the ancients had the technology to pipe their sewage away. How close are the holes to the trench. It does not seem reasonable that it would be close to where they were cooking, unless the site were used for human sacrifice, like the mayans, and aztecs.

I would further point out that the work of Seaward was supported at the time by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle who was very much on the "Looney Fringe of the ''20's and
'30's. Dr. Seaward spent fifty years trying to correlate the cuniforms, pictoforms and symbols of the American Plains Natives to those of the Asian continent and surrounding islands. Ancient Chinese Junks were found in the 1780's off the coast of California, by the Spanish missionaries. they estimated the remains to be thousands of years old. I would imagine that there are still remains of them off of Leffingwell Landing in Cambria, California. This can be verified by the writings of a woman historian,
who wrote the book Where the Highway Ends.

I would further point out that the Macaw Tribe of Western Washington, located in Neah Bay, Washington, claims to be the descendants of the Continent of Lemuria. They had a system of drainage and sewage that was made with the vertebrae of whales.

I think you have stumbled upon one of the most important finds in history. I believe that your stones were cut with the same technology that built the tunnels of South America, the pyramids, stonehenge and The Andes. Has anyone used Richard Hoaglands"Geometry to compare it to the other sites where it has been applied? Just thought I would ask.
Thank you for sharing your wondrous and important work with us the general public.

My name is MoonFire

Posted by Michael Arbuthnot on November 17, 1998 at 17:58:35:

In Reply to: Re: Mineral Samples posted by M. Andrews on October 27, 1998 at 11:14:31:

: Has the rock of which the monument is composed been identified yet?

Yes, the rock is a type of sandstone.

Obviously, for the structure to be natural the layering will have to be attributable to some natural process related to the type of rock.

That is correct. Some sandstone will harden in layers. Our working hypothesis is that the basic formation is natural, but that the natural features were modified. To what extent is still unknown.

Is there a complete chart of the whole structure in existence yet?

There are a few charts of the entire structure. Write to: webmaster@teamatlantis.com and have him forword you the address to Taisan's website. I believe Taisan has the charts on his site.
Thanks, Michael Arbuthnot

Posted by aydin oner on November 11, 1998 at 04:28:03:

In Reply to: Mu symbols, Team Atlantis posted by Carrie Faulk on July 28, 1998 at 07:14:27:

: The "elderly gentleman" pictured with the tatoo is a woman from Okinawa. The picture appeared in Border Land Magazine--I assume it is a Japanese magazine. These symbols, and likenesses of them, have been used in Japan for a long time. In 'The History of Japan', I have seen them on the shields and banners of a Japanese warlord--forgot his name--the book is in Japanese and can't find an English copy yet.

: There is also a magazine called 'Mu', and a Japanese TV station did a documentary in Japan. The TV station is linked in "Cool Links" on the Team Atlantis page, but I don't know if they provide any pictures or downloads. I understand that Graham Hancock lectured (made a speech) about the structures on this show, so to his fans, he knows.

:
: My point is that the Japanese have known about and have covered this story for some time--I can imagine thier trepidation at sharing their knowledge with such arrogant people--don't forget the recent history of Okinawa. Speaking of arrogance, why should this team change their name? Atlantis is now a metaphor for undersea eexplorations--there are three vessels owned by the U.S. Navy that have been operating for over a year with technology similar to that of Team Atlantis.

Posted by the sandman

it would be good to hear something about a map
of the sites, you are are working on.
this is something that
is biger then you think people have to find out
about the real history its a big world and most
of it is under the sea the site you are on is
start of lots to come people have to find out
update. think of people like yourself
that are not there. you are our link

Posted by door of light foundation

In Reply to: Atlantis or Lemuria? posted by James Aronis

: Upon looking at these amazing pictures for the first time, it perplexed me to discover that there are archeologists
: and geologists who insist that these underwater monuments are natural in origin. Even John Anthony West
: and his associate geologist Robert Schoch, long-time supporters of the theory that man's history of civillization
: didn't originate on the Nile, do not yet accept that this site is anything but natural. Even more unusual is the
: almost total dismissal of this story by the media, especially in the west. But I would pose this question: If we are
: indeed looking at the remains of a long lost ancient civillization beneath the waves of Japan, which one is it?
: Atlantis or Lemuria (Mu)? I would say Lemuria.

Posted by the sandman

I would like to no if there is room on the team for one more.
if so there is some things that I can tell you about the sites that you are working on
I would like to help. put I can not tell you on line
I have one love. and it is for history.

Posted by Siw

I suspect this image having been snitched off from a site called Ethno magazine....Am I wrong or....?Anyway, to get the full benefit of it, you should check out the reportage going along with it......Siw



Ethno Magazine, Piri Reis
http://www.cristalweb.com/ethno/pirireis.html

I think you are looking at Lemuria,which is of this planet,or the seed of the earth. The peoples that have been called Yevahics. Perhaps a simmular race to the Mayans, the architecture seems to parallel. Evolution and some astral assistance may have been present here.
Atlantis,on the other hand; was much more advanced. The caretakers of the universe under the cloak of the creator either directed or
infiltrated the society and culture to which point it
felt assured to "fall away" and ultimately to ruin. The pyramids in China's Forbidden Zone, on the Fuji Islands, Egypt and the Americas are of a more geometric style, then the Ziggerats of Peru or Yoneguni(I feel they are more carved and less constructed). I also tend to think the Sphinx and related statues in the southern rockies(see:www.wolfslodge.com), are of the same race as the Egyptians...who really aren't.
The cover-up is enormous and deliberate,maybe for power over men,definately for fear and greed.
The Creator 'God' is real,the Son of God is real, Satan is real and most everything else we achieve is designed to give men false hope in himself over his faith in the unseen,but never unfaltering love of the omnipotent Father of Man.
Soon God will share the truth...trouble is...we can't handle the truth..it's the opposite of the lie we share and live.

Posted by Michael Arbuthnot

: Michael,
: Have you heard anything about the giant seahorse remains off the Isle of Lucy. Appearently, some think these may have been way of transportation for earlier seafarers. Could this have contributed to man's global dispersment?

Yes, this is possible. However, I've always favored the theory that Beluga Whales were the preferred means of travel.

Posted by Michael Arbuthnot

: : Okay, let's discuss. Here's one. Is there any way of imaging through the coral, to see if the structure is as regular as it seems? Surely one of the strongest arguments for this being manmade or terraformed is if it is indeed that regular.

: Wouldn't it be very simple to just use sonar imaging (or something) to get a clear layout of the whole site. Different densities etc. would help to define what is coral and what is the structure, and maybe even if parts of the structure have particular qualities that reveal it to be natural.

what is coral and what is the structure, and maybe even if parts of the
structure have particular qualities that reveal it to be natural.

: The bottomline is this: To determine definitively that the monument is natural, we need to locate something on, or carved into, the monument. Somewhat less definitively, it would be nice to locate an associated artifact that could be accurately dated. Honestly speaking, you could do all the geological analysis you want, but without archaeological evidence, it will be nearly impossible to determine if the monument was
modified. Therefore, until such evidence is located, all one can do is make the best guess possible based upon Japan's historical context and
the uncanny features of the monument.

Posted by Michael Arbuthnot

: : I would like to start off by saying these pictures are very interesting. I am not familar with acrhelogical techniques but is it possible to drill not into the structures but at the bases to determine if soil/rock/mineral composition ever supported land based vegetation? If this was possible I'm sure you already thought of it but it would provide support in favor of the possiblity of this site being man made. I hope you guys have stumbled onto somthing!

: Unfortunately that wouldn't prove a thing. The land surrounding the monument can already be said to have been exposed through standard palaeoclimatology. We already know that the sea levels were much reduced during the Last Glacial Maximum (~pre. 10kyr BP).

: It would be nice for them to have stumbled upon something, but the numerous critiscms of the teams methods has not been answered well.

Gentlemen. You seem to think we can haul out the drills and jackhammers and blast away. I'm sorry, but that simply is not the case. Our expedition was a survey of the Yonaguni Monument. We took small samples of rock and coral, but we were not allowed to remove large blocks or destroy the marine life that makes the monument its home. Please remember, determining whether or not the monument is artificial is not as easy as it seems. There are no associated artifacts. There are no visible glyphic marks or evidence of tooling (without destroying its organic veneer). Sure, with permission from the Japanese government to do what we pleased and with a gigantic grant from Nat. Geo., we could have done alot more. We have neither of these blessings. However, be aware, I never felt the need to tell or prove anything. I wanted to document the monument so the public could make up its own mind. This we successfully accomplished. I'll be the first to admit there's much more to be done.

Wow. Tough crowd.

Posted by Keogh-Ly

For a plan of Atlantis. check out a book called "The Atlaltis
Mystery Solved" by Peter James ISBN:0-7126-7499-3.
The plan is taken from a description by Plato. There
are additional descriptions in text regarding the
adornment of the lost city. The book weighs pro's and
con's about the existance of Atlantis, dispelling
myth and, in my opinion, giving about the most
ballanced view on the topic that I have read. And I
have read much on the subject.

Posted by Darius

You're right about not rushing ahead, but Giants Causeway is not a good example. It basically looks like a giant crystal formation, very repetitive with no large patterns. A better example is found in the September Fortean Times, where there is a photo of surface weathering and erosional features on the southern coast of the Yonaguni Island.

For me, this is the strongest argument that the Yonaguni Monument is natural. Please take a look (Fig. 2 in article by Schoch) and tell me what you think. It's not quite as precise and regular as the monument, but it's close enough to give you pause.

Posted by Sarah Wood :

 : How difficult would it be to remove the organisms from the masonary to reveal writings and/or symbols if they do exist. Is it possible?

: It is possible, but there are environmental impact issues which need to be addressed.

: Some coral clearing has been done but in relation to the location of tool markings or glyphs, it is hit and miss at this point.

: We are currently studying terrestrial glyphs at Yonaguni and their possible linkage to the underwater monuments.

I think any glyphs that are found must be of utmost significance. Apart from possible graffitti (spelling?) this would give a major clue as to who built it which could tell us when. However, there aren't any apparent designs to be seen (i.e. large designs), is it possible that these could have been eroded by tides etc.

Also, are there any important coastal monuments near the area, or other information sources. They could tell if the people were aware of the structure, or even if they built it /knew who did.

Posted by Don Mills

I was struck by (what I think must have been) the very same semi-circular formation as caught Darius' attention. It's the main feature in the 14th picture from the top in the Image Gallery. Artificial as the straight edges and right angle may appear, this structure looked more definitively artificial to me, resembling a semi-circular stone bench such as might be found in a garden. Like Darius, I would very much like to see it investigated closely.

Posted by Lance W. Nix

Hello,

I have just stumbled onto to your page and I have yet to believe my eyes. The images of the site offer
strong support to an unnatural origin of the Yonaguni site. As I was clicking thought the TA(Team Atlantis)
web page a thought hit me. Carl Munck, author of "The Code", has studied various ancient archaeological
sites, and has found that certain aspects of each individual site mark it's geographic location of the earth.
"The Code", if applied to the Yonaguni site, could add support to the unnatural origin arguement, and link the
Yonaguni site into the current connections being drawn between others. Information, and the basics of
"The Code" process can be found at www.greatdreams.com/gem1.htm.
I emplore you to, at the very least, make an attempt to apply this site into the exsisting gridwork.

Regards,
Lance W. Nix
woodye@ksu.edu

Posted by Simon Adams


: Understand, I do not "believe" that Atlantis was an historical reality. *However*, whatever his motives, Plato *presented* it as an historical reality, and I believe that a blanket dismissal of the possibility is misguided. Yes, there are strong reasons to believe that the civilisation Plato described could not have existed when and where he placed it, but many "legends" have turned out to have factual basis, while not accurate in all their details (Troy being the archetypal example). In fact, if the date, size, and distance from Egypt of Plato's Atlantis are each reduced by 90%, he provides a plausible, if exaggerated, description of the Minoan centre on Santorini island (aka "Thera" and, still earlier, "Kalliste").
: The above notwithstanding, I cannot recall Plato's having described Atlantis as a world-wide civilisation, and to link Japan to it at this stage (given that the very existence of Atlantis is not even proved) is to draw a very long bow indeed. The same goes, of course, for Mu and Lemuria.
: I wish the expedition well, and lok forward to seeing progress of a live archaeological expedition developing *before my very eyes*!

I find it strange that people go to the effort of telling everyone that something does NOT exist without explaining why they believe this. Is this a 'chat' forum or a chance for everyone to register their opinions ?

Those with open minds should not have to keep bringing up examples like Troy when 'experts' were proven wrong. All the truths in the world are theories backed up by supporting evidence. These are often 'proved' wrong when better evidence comes along.

There are claims that there was an advanced civilisation that travelled the world until some disaster wiped the majority of them out in about 10,500BC. There are claims that they lived on the South Pole before it was covered by over 20miles of ice. The proponents of this theory have evidence that the location of the poles has moved several times in the past (which even Einstein credited).

And then people like David who started this thread dismiss all the evidence built up and the thoughts of great thinkers from Plato (who did not believe that what hehad heard from the Egyptians was a 'moral story') to Einstein, with no reason whatsoever.

I wonder who is the real sucker, prepared to support the most common belief simply because it does not challenge his own stone like view of what is true. Its a good thing that there are some people left who are prepared to open their mind to other possibilities and move our understanding of things forward. Otherwise we would still be at the stage where Davids message would have been "Of course the world is flat - how can you suckers believe it is round"

PS - I too wish this expedition all the best...

Posted by PETER LANCE

I 'M CURIOUS ABOUT THE ATLANTIS SINCE IT HAS BEEN SO LONG THAT I HAVE HEARD ABOUT ANY EXPEDITION ON TRYING TO GET A CLOSER LOOK ABOUT THE ATLANTIS. WHAT I HAVE HEARD THAT THERE'RE NO OTHER NEW PICTURE ON ATLANTIS SINCE IT HAS LOST AFTER A THOUSAND OF YEAR.

Posted by Alastair Vaan

Hello all.

I'll try and keep this short. Just a few questions.

1. Has the area been mapped using any seafloor imaging technology - sidescan sonar etc.? Surely this would have been one of the first and easiest things to do.

2. How seriously is the possibility of rapid subsidence over eustatic sea level change being taken?

3. Will any of the data make it to peer review? If so, which journals are you aiming for?

4. What dating possibilities are you holding out for? What work is being done on the corals - uranium?

Best of luck with the continuing work.

Alastair Vaan
---------------------------------
School of Ocean and Earth Science
Southampton Oceanography Centre
University of Southampton, UK

Posted by Karyn

Hi. I am a freshman in high school and am interested in a career in science. Your web site is fascinating! Archaeology sounds interesting and I have chosen to do a report on it. If anyone who is a archaeologist or works in that field could answer the following questions, I would appretiate it immensely.
1. Why did you choose archaeology?
2. What does a archaeologist do?
3. What were your interests before you were a biochemist that made you choose archaeology?
4. What courses and/or certificates did you need to become a qualified archaeologist?
5. What would you recommend me to do if I wanted to become a archaeologist?

Please send any responses to dmiller@voicenet.com ASAP. Thank you for your help.

Posted by Michael Arbuthnot

: I realize this has probably been proposed before, but would it be feasible to determine the growth rates of the different corals at Okinawa, thereby getting at least a rough estimate for the ages of the different sites there? A comparison with corals growing in similar to identical conditions on (obviously) unaltered rock might furnish some further interesting data. Certainly, a comparison of the two would do no harm.

A very good suggestion. In fact, Dr. Kimura has already undertaken this very task and at the moment he is still awaiting the results. He is trying to determine if there is a standard growth rate to certain corals found on the momument. If this can be determined, he is at least given a minimum age for the monument. The results would suggest nothing regarding the time of modification.

However, keep in mind that the hydraulic forces acting on the monument are sometimes quite extreme. It is not unlikely that sometime in the past the coral may have been severly damaged, and possibly large portions removed, as a result of the wave action. Therefore, it is possible that the corals may reveal fairly modern dates.

Thanks for the contribution.

Michael Arbuthnot
Team Atlantis
Project Director

Posted by brien kalai foerster on September 09, 1998 at 17:01:05:

In Reply to: Re: natural vs. artificial posted by Michael Arbuthnot on September 09, 1998 at 01:10:23:

Michael, the chinese pyramids, reported to be 12,000 years old, can be viewed at www.lauralee.com/home.htm

They weere photographed in Shensi Province in 1994 by Hartwig Hausdorf.

The design similarities are pretty interesting.

BKF

Posted by Darius Helm


I wasn't trying to suggest that the formation is entirely natural, only that many laymen may think it to be more of an open-and-shut case than it really is. That sort of impression, in the wrong hands, makes some people think that geologists are fools (for not screaming out that it is made by ancient man) or that there is some conspiracy of silence out there. Everyone should know that getting to the truth is more complex than it appears in the photo gallery.

Thanks for the photos in your post. However, the photo in Fortean Times shows a closer example of features similar to the monument. Have you seen the photo to which I'm referring?

Posted by Warren Rath on September 07, 1998 at 22:48:11:

Hello;

Can someone provide further background info re the "Rosetta Stone(s)"? Were they found in the immediate vicinity of the underwater site? If not, where? Thanx for any info on this question, to whomever may care to supply it.

Regards,
Warren R

Posted by Warren Rath

: : On what evidence are these sites dated to 12000 years ago?
: : Is it possible that they are a little more recent than that?

: That is the most recent date when the ocean levels were low enough, due due ice age conditions, for the underwater site to be on dry land (disregarding the possibility of subsidence)

Has the possibility of subsidence greater than (normal?) been considered in the course of geological investigations? Given the considerable geologic instability of many areas on the western rim of the "Ring of Fire", might not the Yonaguni ruins have subsided more recently than generally believed?

Posted by Maraya

Konnichi-wa Micheal san

Thanks for the privious info. The stone I was refering to was the on the other page my error. I would still like to see a clear picture.

The info on the shrine was helpful. I can see how this particular stone can refer to the structure of temple. It seems as there are opposing forces creating balances. Tell me if the image on the tapestry deplicts a gardian or teacher (spiritual). Do the stones have pictographs on only one side?

In the picture section "Behind the scenes w/the Team" The pictures of the "Tomb chamber", or so it apprears, Is it completely enclosed with the same polished stone on the ceiling and floor? How many tombs in the room? Have the tomb bottoms been checked for false floors with a posible stairway leading to an underground chamber? Are there any small openings on any of the upper sections of the walls which could be used for ventilation or lighting?

You may want to also think about this as you explore holes on the underwater structure. Could the holes have been created for ventilation or sunlight of interior rooms?

The Constellation Scropio. Where is it located at this time? and could you find out what it means to the locals.

Still looking foreward to get any further info on phoenican symbols.

See ya

Posted by Darius Helm


: Why is it that when someone discovers a temple beneath the jungle in Central America they can remove all the growth to expose it, but when it's underwater you can't remove the coral? Is this the case of the pistol of absolutism shooting science in the foot?

I have to correct myself. If what was underwater was undeniably manmade, there would probably be some precedent for removing the coral. Nevertheless, I think the potential for such a major discovery is a sufficient reason to remove it.

Posted by Darius Helm

Now coral is obviously beautiful and precious, but I bet you guys at Team Atlantis would give anything to be able to hack it off.

Why is it that when someone discovers a temple beneath the jungle in Central America they can remove all the growth to expose it, but when it's underwater you can't remove the coral? Is this the case of the pistol of absolutism shooting science in the foot?

What if the Team Atlantis' findings are ENTIRELY inconclusive? Then we are left with a situation where the best hope for finding an answer is by looking under the coral. What a shame, and how idiotically embarrassing, if we prevent ourselves from finding out that human history may be substantially different than what we know of it because we won't let ourselves remove the coral. Where's the common sense in that?

It reminds me of the case of ASBESTOS. A small percentage of workers who practically waded in it for 20 years got cancer. Therefore, when trace amounts were found on the ceilings in New York Public Schools, everyone became deathly afraid and the school system was shut down for weeks.

We should just accept that as a race we are idiots and throw in the towel. Either that or someone should start to make a case for removing the coral, that the potential for knowledge is of greater significance than potential damage to the local ecosystem. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices. It is a gentle intrusion compared to things like nuclear testing and vivisection.

Posted by brien kalai foerster

: : For those interested, please check out www.planet-hawaii.com/magicisland/gallery/maui.html

: Thanks for the great link! We enjoyed our visit and recommend it highly...

: As it happens, Polynesia is one area which we have been and will continue to research...watch for future expeditions throughout the entire area...

: Look into the pre-history of New Zealand and tell us about anyhting of interest. We have ongoing research which we are following up as well...
AT THIS POINT I TOO AM STUDYING THE SOMEWHAT FORGOTTEN HISTORY OF AOTEAROa ( NEW ZEALAND ) THROUGH SOME OF MY MAORI CONTACTS, AS WELL AS RAPA NUI ( EASTER ISLAND ) VIA A MEMBER OF THE ROYAL FAMILY. I WILL KEEP YOU POSTED...PERHAPS MY ORGANIZATION AND YOURS COULD WORK TOGETHER.

MAHALO FOR YOUR QUICK RESPONSE

Posted by Michael Arbuthnot

: Part of the Realvideo description says "these rocks", as if it is made of
: seperate pieces of cut stone. Is it all carved/formed from living rock or
: is it seperate blocks?

There is coral covering the entire monument, making it impossible to answer that question, without removing the living organism.

Many geologists conclude that the monument is generally terraformed from a single massive rock. However, this IMPORTANT question remains to be more fully addressed during our continuing research and study.

Thanks and continue with your thoughts...

Posted by Michael Arbuthnot on August 24, 1998 at 00:16:51:

In Reply to: Importance of the "Holes" posted by John on August 21, 1998 at 10:18:22:

: Has the team found any materials in and/or around the site that would give an idea if this monument was covered by columns/posts supporting some kind of dome/ceiling? My guess would be that no such roof would exist if astronomy played a major role in the monument's purpose. But there are a series of 10 foot holes that peak a curiousity of their functionality.

The indigenous building tradition did not sink support beams into the ground, but rather built buttressed beams which lay flush on the surface. In this way, structures were earthquake proof, according to Dr. Kimura. You'll notice there are only two holes, and those are very close(a few feet apart).
Thus it appears unlikely that they held beams to support a roof. However, you may be aware of the use of posts as guides for star-watching throughout various cultures including those located in Mesopotamia, Egypt and elsewhere in the distant past.

There is little evidence to indicate the function, if any, of the holes at this time, however our speculation includes use as both water storage and possible ceremonial activities...Watch our documentary for more on this.

: If the holes did support some kind of beam/guide, that material more than likely floated away (wood/light materials), rusted away (metals), or were taken away (valuable item) due to it being the only movable piece of the whole.

Very observant...

: If there is anything found embbeded in the stone or at the bottom of the pits, I would like to see it posted to the web.

Sure thing, though the coral covering the area has not been removed due to ecological concerns(http://www.yoto.com - Year of the Ocean - important link!)

: (Same goes for the massive hole carved out missing partial)

Please specify more on this...

: Thanks

Thanks yourself! Great input, keep it coming...

http://www.yoto.com

Posted by Maraya

Konnichi-wa

Great job team Atlan!

Is it possible to get another picture of the Okinawa "Rosetta Stone" on page 8? To me, this apprears more of an "orientation" map on three levels. Tell Dr Kimura we appreciate him having shared the stones with us.

In the picture with the small shrine in the musuem. A red wall hanging appears on the far wall, could you take a close up shot and discripe what it is? Also any history on the shine may be interesting.

And finally,
Dr Hurtak, in the picture with the phoenican symbols, could you explain row #2? Any information on any of the other symbols would also be appreciate. Names of refrence books will also be helpful.

Sayonara

PS Love those sunsets

Posted by Maraya

:
: : :
: : : : The stones seem to be made of a very dense limestone or sandstone with small dark flecks.

: : : : They, the stones, are about baseball size.

: : : : One is similar to an Easter Island Moai head; the ears ( not protruding ) especially, but the eyes are more, perhaps, Egyptian.

: : : : The other one looks, to me, like a jaguar, or, in other words, more Central/South American in character.

: : : : I am a sculptor, and could see no traces of metal tool marks in them.

: : : : They are well made, better than any modern "fake" would be, yet not extremely refined ( as in not as well done as would be expected if tungsten carbide or diamond tools were used.)

: : Brien,

: : Thanks for the info. I find these stones facinating.

: : Especially the one which may look like a jaguar. As you may already know, the jaguar was considered a protector and symbol for the classic maya royal house. The Yucatan peninsula, considered the low lands of the Mayas, is made up of linestone. THAT'S INTERESTING. AS FAR AS I KNOW, THERE IS NO NATURAL LIMESTONE ON MAUI.

: : The secound stone, is the mouth partialy oppened or completely closed? PARTIALLY OPEN Do the eyes give you the impression they are looking upward?NOT AS FAR AS I CAN REMEMBER. BUT THEY ARE ALMOND-SHAPED, UNLIKE ANY POLYNESIAN STATUARY I HAVE EVER SEEN. @@@ On some old stone artifacts, when the mouth is partially open, it symbolies at state of prayer, veneration, meditation or song. I feel its prayer

: : I wonder if other balls as such haven't been found in the area.NOT AS FAR AS I KNOW. ANYHOW, THE BISHOP MUSEUM TRIED TO GET HOLS OF THESE TWO STONES, BUT WERE DENIED. THEY ARE BEING USED BY MY FRIEND IN HEALING PRACTICES. @@@ Your friend (she needs to be address with much respect) is doing the right thing. It does not belong to the museum it is a gift given to her to be used. Kind of a "thank you" for the flowers. Could you please ask her, next time she works with the stones, to give 'thanks" in my name and ask them not forget the happiness of the children. I would be eternally grateful.

I don't know much about sculptoring, but do you think these marking could be make with intense heat? or using a sharpened instrument made out of jade? VERY HARD STONE OF SOME KIND. A COMBINATION OF POINT CHIPPING AND SCRAPING. @@@ Jade is considered to be stonger and sharper than steel. It was used back then.

: : There is one more thing I need to tell you. Everytime I come accross anything to do with this subject, I keep getting an image. I keep seeing a bush infront of me full of large bright red flowes, infront of the bush lies a lush green valley and directly behind it high steep mountain. I don't see any other vegitation except for which I've discribed. I realize this can be anywhere on the island. But I think it may be something to think about.INTERESTING. THEY WERE FOUND BY CHILDREN WHILE DIGGING AN AREA TO PLANT BRIGHT FLOWERS IN, AND THE SITE IS LOCATED ABOVE A VALLEY WITH HIGH MOUNTAINS IN BEHIND. @@@Good to know, this is a very special place. To be appreicated for its natural beauty . What you are looking for is on the islands. It will be revealed to you but perhaps the earth needs to shift a little. For staters, look around the ocean were the valley narrows and meets the water. It looks a little trecherous. but look at it through the eyes of a child.

: : Good luck.

Posted by John

How can I get a map and dimensions data on the Yonaguni monument?

I'd like to put the numbers in my computer and...

1.) build a digital model of it
2.) come up with a "formula/language" for the design
3.) build a physical model
4.) make a cast/mold to examine the negative space for answers

Posted by John

Has the team found any materials in and/or around the site that would give an idea if this monument was covered by columns/posts supporting some kind of dome/ceiling? My guess would be that no such roof would exist if astronomy played a major role in the monument's purpose. But there are a series of 10 foot holes that peak a curiousity of their functionality.

If the holes did support some kind of beam/guide, that material more than likely floated away (wood/light materials), rusted away (metals), or were taken away (valuable item) due to it being the only movable piece of the whole.

If there is anything found embbeded in the stone or at the bottom of the pits, I would like to see it posted to the web.
(Same goes for the massive hole carved out missing partial)

Thanks

Posted by Brien Foerster

In Reply to: Re: pre-hawaiian archaeological sites posted by Maraya on August 19, 1998 at 20:24:51:

The stones seem to be made of a very dense limestone or sandstone with small dark flecks.

They, the stones, are about baseball size.

One is similar to an Easter Island Moai head; the ears ( not protruding ) especially, but the eyes are more, perhaps, Egyptian.

The other one looks, to me, like a jaguar, or, in other words, more Central/South American in character.

I am a sculptor, and could see no traces of metal tool marks in them.

They are well made, better than any modern "fake" would be, yet not extremely refined ( as in not as well done as would be expected if tungsten carbide or diamond tools were used.)

Posted by ben hill

: Do you think that there is any connection of this new discovery
: with the other unexplained monuments of the world. Also, the
: placement of all these structures could be a key to our unanswered
: questions.

No... i don't think so anyway. They would be much older than any monuments on dry earth. Though they could have been the work of the very same global society that built such structures as the great pyramids, and the megalopolis at Baalbek. Any of which could definately hold secrets that we could benefit from.
Ben

Posted by brien kalai foerster

I am very pleased that you are researching this amazing site.

At present, I am researching the whereabouts of ancient monuments on, and beneath the waters of the islands of Maui, Molokai, Lanai, and Kahoolawe, based on local indigenous knowledge. An elderly Hawaiian lady of my acquaintance is in possession of two carved stones which were dug up on Maui some thirty years ago. They are made of a type of stone clearly not volcanic in structure, and the images carved on them are not Hawaiian in character. I would love to join your dive team...

Posted by Randy

Part of the Realvideo description says "these rocks", as if it is made of
seperate pieces of cut stone. Is it all carved/formed from living rock or
is it seperate blocks?

Posted by John

I watched The Learning Channel's (TLC) segment on the Yonaguni monument and was very impressed by what I saw. But it was so little. Will there be a full length video available for purchase detailing the site? I'm one of those armchair archeologists who would love to study what I can to see if I could perhaps put together some theories.

Are there any other future programs that will feature Yonaguni?

Posted by John

Just curious if you have any data on whether or not any part or whole of the Yonaguni monument (or other Okinawa structures) line up to the earth's true magnetic poles.
Or if they line up to any other earth features.

Posted by Darius

Unless I'm mistaken, it seems to me that in a terraced section of the formation some of the layers slant in (rather than being vertical). I've never seen that style of construction before. The monolithic structures of Bolivia and Peru, as well as Egypt, don't reveal stones cut in that manner - the ones I've seen, anyway.

Is there anything similar among ancient Japanese monuments?

Also, are the ruins on the island of Yonaguni made of quarried rock? Are there examples on the island of natural rock formations that have been carved into temples, etc.?

Posted by Michael Arbuthnot

: How difficult would it be to remove the organisms from the masonary to reveal writings and/or symbols if they do exist. Is it possible?

It is possible, but there are environmental impact issues which need to be addressed.

Some coral clearing has been done but in relation to the location of tool markings or glyphs, it is hit and miss at this point.

We are currently studying terrestrial glyphs at Yonaguni and their possible linkage to the underwater monuments.

Posted by Michael Arbuthnot

: 1.) Will Team Atlantis use sonar, ultrasonic, or satellite imaging to pierce through the coral and walls of the Yonaguni monument to take a peak inside?

We are considering utilizing the various sensing techniques you have described for our future expeditions. At present we are planning satellite and other remote sensing technologies for studying Yonaguni and other submerged terrestrial sites during our future work.

Posted by John

It was mentioned that there are "some" similarities in architecture and design between the Yonaguni monument and those in the Andes of South America. Do you think that this site (and similar ones) came before or after the sites found in the Andes. Perhaps the survivors/decendants of the flooding of the Yonaguni monument later decided to build new cities high enough (i.e. Andes @ 12,500 feet above sea level) to avoid the same thing happenning again?

Posted by Michael Arbuthnot

: I want to know if there are any artifacts found and if so, from what period do you think they´re from?

As of now, no artifacts found in direct relation to the Yonaguni site, though stone hand axes have been found in areas now submerged around Okinawa.

: When is the next news-update and what kind of dating techniques do you use?? I hope you can answer these questions.

Biological coral dating and carbon-14 of certain shells connected with the various submerged and terrestrial sites under study. Also, relative dating based upon the currently accepted historical data of the Ryukyu area.

Posted by Michael Arbuthnot

: 1. Why have not the press put out a statement about your discovery?

MSNBC article is due .... Watch for it!

Various freelance writers are working on articles on our work right now and we've been interviewed by Laura Lee and Sightings recently from Yonaguni.

: 2. Is this site in an area where a dam or retention area can be built around it?

Very difficult, 100 ft depth, water pressures would be intense, but not inconceivable...

: 3. If so why not do it! Then you could explore the entire area in a dry environment.

true, but the local sea life might have a bit of a problem with that!

: 4. Have you thought about finding a way into the structure?

Yes, though so far, no apparent entry. However, due to the coral encrustation any entry may be consealed and kept shut by the massive sea water pressures...

: 5. Have you done a complete layout of the site? If so what does it look like_i.e., what is the layout?

Dr. Kimura has completed such a map and we'll post a scan for you soon...

: 6. Have you checked to see if the site matches any other site on earth?

Certain similarities to sites on Okinawa and in South America, more revealed in our documentary after scientific study completion by our experts.

: 7. Have you checked to see if the site matches the so called site on Mars?

At the moment, we don't see any connection.

: 8. Why not get the program "Sightings" to your site? They may also become a sponsor?

Did an interview as mentioned above check the link below!

Thanks and keep the questions coming!

Posted by Michael Arbuthnot

: Does the Temple-like structure on your symbol really exist or is it just copied from a Mayan temple picture? Will be really intested to see what comes next - wonderful idea and fascinating to see - my first Real Video performance and it is an educational one....thanks so much

Laurane:

Thanks for the note!

The temple on the logo is a "Platonic" form and, yes, the original concept came to me through in depth study of the Mayan temples, in particular Palenque.

I designed the Team Atlantis logo(the one on the hats and front of shirts). Like the work?

Glad you enjoy the videos. Spread the word on that subject and watch for new ones in the next few days. Plenty exciting stuff to come!

Thanks,

Michael
mike@teamatlantis.com

Posted by Matthew

In Reply to: Stone quarry posted by Daniel on July 30, 1998 at 22:34:37:

: The images are exciting, however, they don't yet appear to be a single or multiple purposefully designed structures. I await the full illumination shots of the site. I will note that this could at least be a submerged quarry, given the similarity between what looks like stone cuts as is seen in present day quarries. Of course this notion begs the question of what happened to the quarried stones?

Excellent observation! That's one of the possiblilities we're considering and our geologists are looking closely at this and various theories as to possible construction techniques...

Posted by Matthew


: Facinating. WHo is funding the project? Has anyone in the U.S. press taken a serious look at this

The Team is privately funded and we need your help to support this and future projects. Please consider picking up some og our official gear as the
proceeds support this and future research!

Posted by Matthew

: How deep are the dives that permit you to see the old structures?

The main Yonaguni site is approx. 100 ft. at the bottom and just 20 ft. below the surface at the highest points.

The current and surge around the site have been treacherous during our research and filming...

Posted by Rob


Actually a lot of established and reputable historians would disagree that the information we have from Plato on Atlantis is PURELY a morals story. While that is certainly part fo its purpose there is no evidence to suggest that (like many other tales) it was not based on some fact. Troy was merely "fantasy" until Schlieman discovered it! However, it would be a big call to say these structures in Japan are part of Atlantis or any other known lost site.

Posted by David Rey



: On what evidence are these sites dated to 12000 years ago?
: Is it possible that they are a little more recent than that?

That is the most recent date when the ocean levels were low enough, due due ice age conditions, for the underwater site to be on dry land (disregarding the possibility of subsidence)

Posted by Don Mills


Understand, I do not "believe" that Atlantis was an historical reality. *However*, whatever his motives, Plato *presented* it as an historical reality, and I believe that a blanket dismissal of the possibility is misguided. Yes, there are strong reasons to believe that the civilisation Plato described could not have existed when and where he placed it, but many "legends" have turned out to have factual basis, while not accurate in all their details (Troy being the archetypal example). In fact, if the date, size, and distance from Egypt of Plato's Atlantis are each reduced by 90%, he provides a plausible, if exaggerated, description of the Minoan centre on Santorini island (aka "Thera" and, still earlier, "Kalliste").
The above notwithstanding, I cannot recall Plato's having described Atlantis as a world-wide civilisation, and to link Japan to it at this stage (given that the very existence of Atlantis is not even proved) is to draw a very long bow indeed. The same goes, of course, for Mu and Lemuria.
I wish the expedition well, and lok forward to seeing progress of a live archaeological expedition developing *before my very eyes*!

Posted by Carrie Faulk

The "elderly gentleman" pictured with the tatoo is a woman from Okinawa. The picture appeared in Border Land Magazine--I assume it is a Japanese magazine. These symbols, and likenesses of them, have been used in Japan for a long time. In 'The History of Japan', I have seen them on the shields and banners of a Japanese warlord--forgot his name--the book is in Japanese and can't find an English copy yet.

There is also a magazine called 'Mu', and a Japanese TV station did a documentary in Japan. The TV station is linked in "Cool Links" on the Team Atlantis page, but I don't know if they provide any pictures or downloads. I understand that Graham Hancock lectured (made a speech) about the structures on this show, so to his fans, he knows.


My point is that the Japanese have known about and have covered this story for some time--I can imagine thier trepidation at sharing their knowledge with such arrogant people--don't forget the recent history of Okinawa. Speaking of arrogance, why should this team change their name? Atlantis is now a metaphor for undersea eexplorations--there are three vessels owned by the U.S. Navy that have been operating for over a year with technology similar to that of Team Atlantis.

Posted by Gil Payson

Lemuria was a theory created to explain the
distribution of Lemurs in the Indian Ocean.

Our terminology needs an overhaul...

Posted by Richard Smillie

Let there be peace,light right use ness of the Law."Awaken"and increase your lights by rising above the frequencies of the lower end of the total spectrum,for they are being purposely manipulated by those whose intent is to keep you imprisoned upon the earth in order to prevent the transformation of the planet.

Posted by Posted by Joe Mason


Dear KaliJudah,

Your post and the name "KaliJudah," are quite interesting to me. The hyperlink below goes to an article that came to me via "dream-coincidence." It speaks of Kali and the end of the Age of Iron, the Kali-Yuga.

In the article, I propose the theory that the harlot of Revelation 17 is also Kali. One of my dream-coincidences connected with the story in Genesis 38, where Judah "fornicates" with the putative harlot, and this led to the birth of the twins of the Royal Bloodline - Pharez and Zarah of the Scarlet Thread.

I have started another article which also includes this symbolism, and how it relates to the Solar Eclipse of 1999. The article is a bit rough at this point, but you can take a peak if you wish. It's at:

SOLAR ECLIPSE 1999 - FINAL QUEST FOR THE HOLY GRAIL
http://greatdreams.com/eclipse.htm

All this is theoretical, of course. If you have any ideas about these concepts, I would sure like to hear them.

Light Upon Light,

Joe Mason

Posted by Michael Lawrence Morton

Yes .... I would agree, as I was also thinking the same thing .... that this expedition/project should be named "Team Lemuria". 'Atlantis' is
(was) in the Atlantic Ocean ... clearly not the
Pacific Ocean.

____ Original Post ____
: Hello everyone: When we came to this site, the underwater scenes were incredible, but what excited us even more was the photo of the eldery gentleman and his tattoo in comparison with the stone. The stone shows the same picture as Tablet 1231 in Col. James Churchwards' 'The Sacred Symbols of Mu'.

: Churhward states: This cross is the most valuable writing which has come down to us from the First civilization both as regards religion and science. This cross tells us that all Forces throughout the Universe have their origin in the Deity. That these forces are controlling life and all movements of matter down to the atom and particles of atoms, either directly or indirectly. It shows us that the Forces called Atomic Forces are only indirect workings of Primary Forces through Atoms. It tells us how the Great Primary Forces are working in a manner to maintain regular and perfect movements of each and every body throughout the Universe.

: All of the arms of this cross are symbols of the Primary Forces coming from and out of the Deity. All of these arms or Forces are pointing towards the East - the four form a circle. Therefore, the Primary Forces are all working in a circle from a Center and proceeding in an Easterly direction.

: There is no explanation as to where this stone was found. How did the elderly gentlemen get the tattoo that matches it exactly?

: If what we suspect is true, this Atlantis team should be renamed the teamMU.

: Dee

I look forward to reading all of this tonight!

This site is the biggest hunk of shit I have ever seen. You have trashed what was once an excellent design...nice work Matt.....webmaster my fat ass.

Gee thanks for your comments! God bless the freedoms of the Internet and your first amendment rights in the U.S.A!

...punk! 8)

Curious...
     I have been looking at the many similarities between cultures and civilizations of the past in disparate places on earth, and I am simply stunned by how accepted the theory of convergence is when it flies in the face of reason. Admittedly, common problems will have common solutions, but religious symbolism, deities, construction techniques, food stuffs and plants are unlikely anchors upon which to pin the theory of convergence. The cabbage is the most widely grown and diverse vegetable we have from Kale to Broccoli, cabbage exists throughout the world. The ancient Egyptian mummies contained traces of cocaine and nicotine. Step pyramids and sundials, arrow heads and styles of dress, all of these things look very similar across time. I would suggest that slow travel and slow communication explain the differences better than convergence explains the similarities. Any comments?

Doug

Doug:

It is an interesting problem. Archaeologists call the theory of convergence "Independent Invention." Briefly, when situations of independent invention occur, one is automatically drawn to suggest culture contact, but sometimes that defies the evidence. For example, there were stone projectile points used by people across the globe 20,000 years ago. It doesn't mean they all had contact with one another necessarily, rather it suggests that humans have a proclivity to use tools, and stone is a handy material with which to manufacture them. However, situations like the discovery of cocaine in the Egyptian mummies doesn't really fall under the realm of independent invention because we know that the cocoa plants, from which cocaine it is derived, only grow in South America. Therefore, one must surmise culture contact, in my opinion. This is revolutionary and probably will not be understood for many decades. I think you must deal with each case of "convergence" separately. There are few easy answers to be found. Thanks for your email.

Mike Arbuthnot
Team Atlantis

Curious...

> I have been looking at the many similarities between

> cultures and civilizations of the past in disparate places on

> earth, and I am simply stunned by how accepted the theory of

> convergence is when it flies in the face of reason. Admittedly,

> common problems will have common solutions, but religious

> symbolism, deities, construction techniques, food stuffs and

> plants are unlikely anchors upon which to pin the theory of

> convergence. The cabbage is the most widely grown and diverse

> vegetable we have from Kale to Broccoli, cabbage exists

> throughout the world. The ancient Egyptian mummies contained

> traces of cocaine and nicotine. Step pyramids and sundials,

> arrow heads and styles of dress, all of these things look very

> similar across time. I would suggest that slow travel and slow

> communication explain the differences better than convergence

> explains the similarities. Any comments?

>

> Doug

>

  Hey, guys! Don't know if this will help, but when I was 7 years old I dreamed I was in my 40's; on a boat, and an old man was pointing down smiling ,saying, "There it is, Atlantis." I knew that I was 40 miles off the coast of Florida,(the Atlantic side, of course.) We were about 1/3 of the way down the coast or, 2/3 up. I remember this dream like it was yesterday and the funny thing is; I'm 43 and look exactly as I saw myself at 7. Hope you guys find it!

This is my first post here, greetings and well wishes to all.

I used to be very skeptical about the existence of atlantis, But after watching the atlantis special on the discovery channel I'm sure many of you have seen, I became intrigued and decided to go to the web for more information. I entered "Atlantis" at Yahoo, and the first hit I got was;

www.atlan.org

WOW!....
Let me say that again.
WOW!!

This is IT. No BS
I AM a believer.
No ads, nothing for sale.
Strictly academic and a tour de force of detective work.

The Work of a Brasilian scientist name of Arysio Nunes dos Santos who has spent over 17 years studying the problem of atlantis in an unprecedentedly clever way, delving into many scientific disciplines... Geology, vulcanology, linguistics, etc, as well as Comparing the worlds mythologies and religions.

And hot damn, there it is, just like plato said. But not where anybody is looking for it. Take an open mind, read the evidence, (it will take a while, it's a hefty site) and try not to be dissapointed when your favorite pet theory is shot down like a fat hydrogen balloon. The truth is way more interesting anyway.

Andrew Repa
Chicago, Il.
e-mail;www.innerprimitive@earthlink.net

Edited by author 12-15-2001 05:02 PM
I ran across the following article today:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/668477.asp

Does anyone know if there are any related pix on the net?

I have decoded the ancient symbols found on the Dogu statues as well as the abstract symbol linguistics found on other ancient statues, such as the Goddess "ishtar" uncovered in 1934 and dated to be 4,000 years old. The "Giant" Toltec found in Tula, Mexico the ancient statues of TiaHuanico, Bolivia the "Weeping Sky-God" the abstract language of Easter Island and "Inca" statues Central American, Meso-American and statues found in Vera Cruz as well as Aztec figures which are all depicting the same theme. The Dogu statues as well as other ancient statues can be thought of as a sort of time capsule left behind by nun other then ET visitors? ET is basically saying have energy will travel!

Robert A. Patterson
Reverse Engineering Theorist
Gravitics Among The Ancients
http://members.tripod.com/tsm12/

  I believe that a picture i have shows the location of Atlantis and island of Alta across from the pillars of hercules,but the geologists that i have talked with have all said NO WAY! I still think it's worth looking at because every thing fits. My # is 518-793-4214

Atlantis? Does it connect to Egypt and the Mayas?
I've been reading book after book after book on the Mayas, the Ancient Egyptians, and Atlantis. I've been reading the Atlantis books because for thousands of years, mankind has stated that there was a continent where there lived a remarkable and advanced civilization. My theory states that the Maya and Egyptians didn't just learn how to build pyramids and large structures from the ground up, and by trial and error. They are all built and complete. Whether they with stood time is another issue. The Medium Pyramid collapsed because it seemed that the people that built it didn't do it the same as the other pyramids, but it is clearly not the oldest pyramid. I think that the sphinx and the pyriamds are older than we think. The Maya pyriamds are masive as well. The pyramid of the of the sun at Teotihuacan near mexico city has the exact size base as the Great Pyramid in Egypt, and exactly half the size. I find this to be stunning. Perhaps the Mayas and Egyptians learn how to make these from other civilizations, and built them early in there own civilizations. For the Egyptians, I think that the technology slowly faded away and the pharaohs began being buried in the Valley of the Kings. If the Atlantis Civilization were true, it would open a new chapter in the history of mankind.

Jason Glisson
tk421jag@hotmail.com
http://www.galahadnet.com

regarding the 'stone structures' found off of Japan and Okinowa (sic). It almost looks as if those sites were stone quarrys at one time rather than monuments.

 Any evidence of Turkic origins?


I know several researchers that are finding evidence that a lost civilization of Turkic people migrated to faraway places from a lost homeland. There is evidence of Turkic beliefs(Sundial), Skygod worshipping, and linguistic bond to ancient Peruvians, Caaninites, Sumerians, Scythians, Pelasgians, Etruscans, ruling family of the Egyptians(asiatic eyes), Pazryks, as well as Turkic runes in Scandinavia and the Celtic coasts. Turks are usually defined as entering the West during the wave of Islamic conquest, but Turks have been in Europe for over 4,000 years. The Alps were named by ancient Turks. Alp meaning highest point in Turkish. Ironically, during the same period, they were found throughout Asia. The Native Americans have similarities with Turks in Yakut(Sakhas/Tuva). The Native Americans refer to the sky as "Havva". It is called Hava in Turkish. Many other bits of strange connections are found on many research. (www.khazaria.com has some interesting links).

My question is, "is there any research or evidence of Turkic elements in Yonaguni"? Please note that Japanese is most similar in structure to Turkish.

Best regards,


Tamer
NJ-USA

Http//:www.atlan.org is a load of horseshit pseudo science. that guy is a crackpot, indeed. Smug, yet completely bereft of support. Tons and tons of random, obscure references that either are inteneded to bewilder or reference a schziphrenic break with reality. Indonesia is Atlantis? Krakatoa blew itself to smithereens in 600AD, certianly it is amongst the major volcanic centers for the earth...but where is his evidence? I am not opposed to believing any theory that is cogent...This guys site reads like a manic rant of a "believer" that KNOWS he's right and can glaze over the data with an aire of superiority. He is deficient as a scientist and as a communicator...I'll take my chance with Cayce, thank you very much.

The only common link that all the pyramids have is that they are all located on or near the 30th parallel. China, Mexico, Egypt, and off the coast of Japan and Cuba if this is found to be true. There had to be a reason.

The reason no one knows how or why they were built is that they have been here since the beginning.

As the North pole is estimated to be ice free in the next fifty years and the South pole is melting and breaking up faster than anticipated, (refer Christina Hulbe's web page)the Earth's delicate balance is something we all should be worried about.

Its not the size of an object that matters, its the amount of weight that an object is out of balance. I believe the murals of Egypt show this fact.

    I beleive you are wrong about the pyramids because there were 12 located by satellite image and then reconfermed by a helicopter that, and they were all found at the edge of the Amazon Jungle by Brazil. Out of the 12, 8 of them were seen by the satellite, hthe other 4 by the helicopter. My best wishes, Mysticist

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Atlantis, according to Platón, was near Gibraltar. Reason itself is not accepted?

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

The Only Location of Atlantis: Question of Rigor...
--------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Laura:

The only location of Atlantis that can be maintained, objectively, and according to the own words of Plato and other authors of the Antiquity, is the one of "FRETUM HERCULIS", "Straits of Hercules" ("Straits of Gibraltar", in Latin) or "ATLANTIKOUS PELAGOUS", "Sea of the Atlántiko" ("Atlantic Gulf", in Greek)

"... The location of Isla-Peni'nsula de Atlantis between Iberia and Africa, according to the own words of Plato: next to the Straits of Gibraltar, ahead same, in the lobby of the Atlantic Gulf and near the regions of the Atlas, Cadiz, Menestheo and Olissipo, never it has been a thesis or a hypothesis, simply it has been the only location referred by Plato, and sincerely, to try to maintain another location would mean, simply, to ignore and to completely despise the text of Plato and the old sources, besides to see one forced the manipulation and the use of the argument of the force instead of going to the force of the argument... " [Cita of the Author]

I wait for, sincerely, that the search of the truth, am where it is, it is as it is, and it falls that falls, is what it really matters to most of the members of this List. As also I hope to wake up your interest, although it only is so that my work is criticized.

Very Warm greetings from "Atlantis-Iberia" of Georgeos Diaz-Montexano

Georgeos Díaz-Montexano
Georgeos@ArchaeoTour.com

To expand information in:

Atlantis, according to Platón, was near Gibraltar. Reason itself is not accepted?
http://pub48.bravenet.com/forum/fetch.php?...&usernum=4071468172

The Only Location of Atlantis: Question of Rigor
http://www.grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=96959&t=96959

The Atlántida of Platón and that of the Esoterics
http://www.grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=97099&t=97099

Discovered Atlantis in Gibraltar
http://usuarios.lycos.es/atlantisiberia/index.htm

They discover ruins under the Sea in the Straits of Gibraltar that could be of the Atlantis. The ruins of the Old Civilization of Atlantis could ...

http://Atlantis.sitio.net/
http://www.elistas.net/listas/atlantologos/

Perhaps our logic is causing us to over think. The cities and continents in question are numerous, although stories of them are similar. Is it not possible that many technologically advanced civilizations existed at once, with their ultimate fate being wrought of the same geological or environmental circumstances? I ask ,also, if anyone else noticed a picture of a fish on the wall of the underwater site at Yonaguni? The scene was featured near the end of History Channel broadcast July 23, 2002. "Japans Mysterious Pyramids."

Lost City found Near Cuba. Is it Atlantis?

The Associated Press, Reuters, The Christian Science Monitor and many other "hard news" publications are posting stories on what most archaeologists have long considered fantasy -- underwater ruins of a great city resembling the legend of Atlantis.

In July 2000, while searching for shipwrecks, ocean engineers Paulina Zelitsky and Paul Weinzweig of Advanced Digital Communications (ADC) used sophisticated side-scan sonar equipment that detailed clear images of symmetrically organized stone structures that resembled pyramids, roads and buildings. Surprisingly, these structures were found 2200 feet below the sea's surface off the western tip of Cuba. In July 2001, ADC returned to the site with experts from the Cuban Academy of Sciences aboard the 360-foot research vessel "Ulises." This time they sent a Remotely Operated Vehicle (ROV) down to examine and to photograph the structures. Images sent back by the ROV confirmed the presence of large, cut granite-like blocks in perpendicular and circular formations, some in the shape of pyramids, with many blocks stacked one atop another.

Cuban geologist Manuel Iturralde, Ph.D, commented, "The megalithic stones are very unique structures... I do not have any easy explanation for them in a natural geological process." Part of Dr. Iturralde's problem is that the stones appear to be cut granite blocks from 6.5 to 16 feet in length. Yet there is no granite in that region of the Caribbean, only limestone. A trip with a beefed-up ROV capable of drilling into the blocks to determine their composition was set for this July (2002). The National Geographical Society(NGS) had sent investigators, and then had pledged 2 million to the effort. But the needed funding has not materialized. The NGS continues to express interest, but there appears to be pressure from the State Dept. against NGS involvement with Cuba (partners with ADC).

Is this small underwater plateau Atlantis? According to Plato, Atlantis was an island-continent. However, Zelitsky, Weinzweig and the geologists who have studied it all agree that the area was once part of a ninety-mile-long land bridge that connected present-day Cuba to Mesoamerica's Yucatan Peninsula. They speculate that catastrophic events -- a series of volcanic eruptions and /or earthquakes, perhaps initiated by the collision of a football-sized comet or meteor with the Earth -- could have caused the land to sink. Collisions of space objects of this size are known to occur, on an average, once every 10,000 years.

If this 7.7 square mile area was connected to America, it could have been a major port or even the capital of the island-continent Atlantis, which was described by Plato as "larger than Libya and Asia combined." This is roughly the size of North and South America combined. In Atlantis in America: Navigators of the Ancient World, Ivar Zapp & George Erikson present evidence of early structural sophistication in large stone structures found throughout Mesoamerica. The great spheres of Costa Rica -- as much as 7 feet in diameter and weighing 30 tons, yet perfectly spherical to within 2 millimeters -- could not have been constructed by our technology before the discovery of the laser 50 years ago. They had to have been shaped by a superior technology... one matching Plato's description of Atlantis. Further the authors have concluded that the star temples of the Olmec and Maya, and carved-in-stone images of bearded and Negroid figures throughout Mesoamerica that date back thousands of years, are vestiges of an earlier seafaring civilization.

This past winter, Erikson led tours to many of these sites including Cerro Maya, which rests at the base of the Yucatan Peninsula. Cerro Maya's oldest pyramid was known to be partially submerged. Repeated dives revealed that a great portion of the structure is underwater. NASA photography has shown that an underwater tunnel connects Cerro Maya to Santa Rita -- a Mayan site located 7 miles across Corozal Bay. It could only have been constructed 11,500 in the past, at the end of the Pleistocene (last Ice Age) when Sea levels were much lower. Cerro Maya may have been linked to the underwater site off Cuba.

In Atlantis In America, based on their finds of related navigational instruments, Zapp & Erikson predicted that the heart of Atlantis would be found offshore of the tropical Americas, under several hundred feet of water. However, they were aware of, but did not factor in, the effects of a geological disturbance of the kind described by Zelitsky and Weinzweig. These independent researchers drew closer together when Zelitsky & Weinzweig requested a copy of Atlantis in America, stating, "our discovery has made us intensely interested in ancient megalithic structures -- particularly in Central and South America."

If the Cuban offshore site proves to be what it appears, Ivar and I hope to be the first to say, "We told you so!"

George Erikson (760) 251-9342 Fax 251-1482 Eriksongd@aol.com
www.AtlantisInAmerica.com

Great read.. It's fiction, but it offers an awsome perspective of the possibility of Atlantis..
It's by Robin Cook it's called "abduction"
Peace

I had to finally get this off my chest and tell somebody about my wild experience that happened last summer in the mountains around Mt. Shasta.

I go to Shasta to meditate and pray, usually when the weather is warm. One night while I was alone praying, a brilliant white light surrounded me. I knew immediately that this was a UFO.

The light dimmed so I could see three figures approaching me from the north. They were about 5 foot tall with long arms, pointy fingers, and the usual big bug eyes. They were communicating to me telepathically. The conversation started with the leader who was a couple inches taller than the other two. He spoke with an accent like he was from the inner city, almost like street slang. It was quite unusual:
 
ET: Yo! What's happenin' bruddah?
Me: Hey man! I ain't your bruddah, cause you be too ugly, suckkah!
ET: Don't be dissin me fool, less you wanna get beamed into some fish food, fool!

Me: Ok! Sorry man, you guys want some milk and cookies?

ET: Cookies? We ain't kids dude! You got any beer?

Me: No...I don't drink.



At this time the three huddled together and were talking real low in ET language.

ET: Hey, no offense man but were gonna find some chicks we saw were campin on the other side of the lake. You wanna go?
As soon as I said yes we were in the UFO. About 5 seconds later we were beamed down to where three startled college gals were camping. They were awestuck, so frightened they couldn't speak. I came up top them and explained that me and my friends were just looking to party a little, and said they could take a ride on the UFO later on if they would just chill and hang with the ET's for awhile.
 
We drank some wine and the ET's got too wasted to drive their UFO. After they passed out, I talked the girls into going for a ride with me in the UFO. When we got inside, I told the ET driver his friends were sleeping and he has to take us to Nevada. I wanted to buzz Art Bells house with the UFO. We arrived in Nevada in less than a minute but the stupid ET driver couldn't find Art's house. I told him to take us to area 51. He look surprised, but followed my
instructions.

When we landed at area 51, we were greeted by a jeep with a couple military officers. I told them that we commandeered this UFO and it was for sale if they wanted to buy it. After some negotiations, we agreed to terms and 5 military guys came with us back to the campsite. We dropped off the girls, picked up the drunk ET's, and I had them drop me off at my campsite.




I now am retired and living in a well guarded mansion in Costa Rica. Not bad huh? I always wanted to retire by age 40 and I did it! I know many are wondering how much I got for the UFO. Well the government has worked out a payment schedule for all commandeered UFO's that is as follows:

$5,000.00 per kilo of spacecraft.

$150,000.00 per live ET

$25,000.00 for dead ET

$65,000.00 for Injured ET

Although most of these spacecraft are very light, you can do well if you get a few ET's that are alive. The government got a little angry with me because I told them that there were 3 other ET's in the sleep chamber and they couldn't be woken up for 6 more months. Well, the check had already cleared months before they found out that the ET's used dummys under the obscure glass sleep chamber. I blamed it on the head ET and said that he told me they were sleeping! I was just as fooled as they were! I don't think they believed me, but they let it slide anyhow!
Hey, when things go your way...they can really go your way!




If any of your friends are interested in duplicating what I did, I would tell them not to give up. Someday, somewhere, when you least expect it, you may pray for a UFO to sell to the government and........well....you never know now do you?

there is a tradition among Basque people that they are descendants of Atlantis. Please comment.

we have a tendancy to refer to old cultures by their capital city. atlantis was a civilisation. not a city!
why else do ya think the evidence is all over the globe.
why do investigators never talk about this?

Why is it that people/scientists especially feel they need to "interpret" the historical stories of the distant past. It is always assumed that in those olden, olden days that no one had a decent memory or that the pillars of hercules must have been some other rock as today etc, etc, etc... This is hogwash - most of the time. Those who passed down those oral histories were extremely talented mentally and personally VERY METICULOUS with the details. Atlantis was/is exactly where it is recorded to be. THAT is why these waters were named the Atlantic - Duh! Exactly the same way Mr. SCH... found Troy - EXACTLY where the stories placed it. God did create the world in "7 days." In reality, that is. You must note that the biggest problem with our modern "understanding " of the world is that we - most of us have forgotten "from whence we came." REALITY is not the physical world as our limited senses see, hear and touch it. REALITY is the ESSENCE that brings it about. The thought behind the physical manifestation is reality. Some might say that our "inner" world is real to each of us alone. I say that it is reality PERIOD. I find it so comical of modern civilisation to call land "realestate". When real is supposed to mean lasting forever/permanent. Yet, in tha last century we have proved the ability to cause it's instant distruction. The ONLY thing that is permanent is the world within. This is the only realestate and few of us ever take ownership of our own...The "world" WAS created as quickly as seven days. Just as the artists idea often springs into her head but takes long arduous hours, days or years to make physical. As an artist myslf, I understand this all too well. I have works "finished" in my head that are still waiting after 30 years(!) to be executed. As the Little Prince's friend once said, One must wait until the conditions are right.... I used to find Mark Twain's essay about "how the world was made for man" humorous. Lately, however, I have begun to see his arguments - though intended to cast doubt and an air of farse on the idea - more logical and true as stated. This to my own wide eyed surprize! As a youth I was taught by a very wise teacher(younger than I am now) that which any good artisen, artist, and craftsman must know to be accomplished PREPARATION IS EVERYTHING! Many times the preparation takes many many times longer than what is considered the "work." We live our lives as we read a book, oblivious to the fact that the author studied for years then, researched and agonized endlessly then an editor slaved - joyously, yes, but still slaved - away to perfect it and then to chose just the right font, paper, binding, etc... most of the time waiting to have totally unique ones designed (taking time, time ,time) Just so you the one individual could read it in one evening. The pattern of the universe - God's scientific universe - is all around us and inside us. Even in our simplest thought! If only we would wake up and know it.

I have a theory about what has taken place on this planet since atlantis. Now tosee the resent past from heree we dont have to look far.I think the moon hit the earth about 10,000years ago.changing the spin of our planet.The continent of atlantis is either under antartica or the artic.There is water on the moon at the southern edge that was taken up when the two planets collided.Before this the moon was a transient and now I will ask you to find out if my theory could hold water?To do so you would have to go to the moon to find if the water there was salt water.

Not to bash this theory, cause it could be possible, but there isn't a crater big enough to even suggest that the moon hit the earth and if they did hit, it would almost certainly destroy both the earth and the moon because of the speed in which both is traveling. It pretty much like the earth getting hit by a bullet.


>From: QT - Russell Mendola <qtopic+7-X3aL7efPmG5W@quicktopic.com>
>Reply-To: QT topic <qtopic+7-X3aL7efPmG5W@quicktopic.com>
>To: tk421jag@hotmail.com
>Subject: Team Atlantis
>Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 04:42:00 -0500 (CDT)
>



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Edited by author 09-18-2002 12:07 PM
I have often wondered how the dinosaurs could have gotten so massive and how humankind could have built such calossal structures, pyramids,parthanon,easter island,stonehenge and more. My theory is this that the gravity of the earth was alot weaker maybe by half or probably more because the earth was spinning twice as fast or faster than it is today. One hundred and sixty million years ago a comet or asteroid gave us our latest E.L.E(Extinction Level Event) just off the Yucatan peninsula that took care of the dinosaurs.Mans rein came he conquered and built monuments to his Gods. Then the moon came along it came close enough to pull some ground and water off of our planet and in return our planet jailed it's one and only natural satellite, but in doing so slowed the earths rotation down to pretty much where we are today. Welcome to my theory. any comments are welcome send to terry.chaikalis@3web.net

your trip to japan looks fun. however im in construction and the photos look more like a quarry pit for taking stone out of not as you look at it was it built. I beleive if you look on land you will find the stones. this is why some look out of place. japan had great underwater swimmers and may have cut the blocks in the water and floated then into shore or to a neighboring island.

Edited by author 09-18-2002 04:14 PM
My theory of Atlantis:
With the recession of the last ice age roughly 12k years ago the seas level rose some 300 feet. In addition to this there was a huge glacial lake in the area of the great lakes and canada.
The lake was held back by an ice dam that failed and released a huge amount of water very quickly. With the already rising seas the torrent was unleased and caused a tsunami of catostrophic proportions that destroyed any coastal civilitations on the Atlantic and the Mediterranian basins. This I believe is the origin of the great flood stories. I believe that Atlantis is located in what is now the shallow area know as the South China Sea. There is evidence to substanciate this and it is also the area that would expose the most land were the seas lowered 300 feet.

The Sumerians actually scribed that the Deluge was caused by a sheet of ice that slid off of Antarctica around 10,500 B.C. The water erosion of the Sphinx is said to archeoastronomically date back to that same time frame. They also had a map of the land mass of Antarctica without the ice that's in a British museum now, as well as a complete map of our solar system that even depicts a tenth planet beyond Pluto. They also wrote that it's the closeness of this planet's orbit to the Earth's that created tremors that caused the sheet of ice to slip off into the sea. Perhaps Atlantis disappeared due to a combination of the tremors and the flood. I would think it was due more to the tremors/earthquakes (which may also have instigated a volcanic eruption) since I doubt that the flood had any permanent effects on the water level of the world.

You guys are cool. Okay check this out, Has anyone read the works of Colonel Churchward in the 1930's or 40's? He uncovered massive archeological evidence of the civilization called Mu in the pacific. Theosophists called it Lemuria. He surmised that the pyramids and all the archeological similarities (as observed originally by Ignatius Donnelly, and researched these days by people like David Childress), originated in the pacific. What if Atlantis was originally a colony of LeMUria? Also, what about tales of the greek gods actually being tales of people in Atlantis? Like how the capitol city was called Poseidia, and Plato said that the original king was Atlas. I'm not asking for anyone to agree with the theories, I'm just asking for relative plausibility based on other people's studies.

I was hoping to expound on a theory that was on the art bell show. The hydroplate theory and its more general theories. 1. the earth is 4 billion years old looking at it from our point in time. 2. from the point of day one the earth is just 7 days ( or equivalent time periods to the time day one lasted)old. This can be explained by an expanding universe and the relationship between space, time,matter and the way gravity affects it all. 3. the earth had a frozen hydrogen shell that absorbed the electromagnetic energy from the earth and sun in a symbiotic relationship that kept this firmamanet stable and the firmamanet helped stablize and maintain the magnetic field at about 4 gauss. Frozen hydrogen is a superconductor and can interchange energy easily between magnetic and electrical influences. 4. the earth was smaller and due to this shell had an atmosphere 1.5 times what it is today. this created a hyberbaric effect causing everything to grow larger. 5. the hyperbaric effect made things live longer. 6. the crust of the earth rode ontop of a sheet of water. 7. A sudden burst of microwave energy from space energized the core of the earth to the point that it overpressurized this the underground water source causing a rupture ( the continents as we know them). 8. This rupture sprayed steam into the atmosphere and destroyed the hydrogen shell. It also flooded the whole earth. The ruptured earth is larger but less dense than before this event. The continents shifted rapidly. That is the theory basically. I was not there to verify so who knows. It seem just as plaudible as anything else I have heard. It ties into atlantis in that the people who lived back then were advanced and more intelligent becasue of the hyberbaric effects on the body and brain. And they were mostly wiped out in the disaster.

Ever heard of the expedition of Rah?

No, do tell!




>From: QT - Joe
>Reply-To: QT topic
>To: the_faery_princess@hotmail.com
>Subject: Team Atlantis
>Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:51:00 -0500 (CDT)
>

Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here < replied-to message removed by QT >

Around 50,000 years ago an advanced culture existed on the surface of Mars. Aware of an impending cataclysm, their scientists devised three plans to save their culture. One was to move beneath the surface of Mars in a subterrainian world. The second was to abandon Mars and create a colony on the Earth, and the third was to leave the solar system entirely being a space-dwelling species. All three plans were put into action. Those that chose to colonize Earth didn't wish to interfere or influence the evolving humanoids there so they chose an area uninhabited by primitve man. Thousands of years passed, and this colony of Martians became what we know of as Atlantis. When the ice-age ended about 12,000 years ago the Earth went through great changes. Which caused the destruction of the Martian colony Atlantis. The few survivors were left with no choice but to join with primitive humans and attempt to pass on their legacy and their technology. Their influence on mankind caused the sudden knowledge of agriculture and farming that began after the ice-age, and resulted in the numerous pyramids across the globe. (Numerous pyramids have been photographed on Mars.)

I like the mars-atlantis connection theory. It would explain why ancient cultures around the world associated mars with war and/or blood, if the impending cataclysm was war.

The pictures of the long rocks are excellent,and I suppose your team have already found some one to translate and interprete the Cabalistc crptic images on these stones. The walls are full of Hermetic thematic systems, some are of the Duad thought from the Rosicrucian, and the Hebrew Cabala. Loved the site your pics are great! Mr Johnson

There's a recently published book called The Legend of Kokobono that contains an account of the technology used on Atlantis. It has a very detailed description of a "sound engine" which was the main power source. It also goes into alternative power and agriculture. There are actually engineers researching some of what has been described in the book. Check out Http://www.kokobono.com

I would like to offer you my article dedicated to the book "Unidentified Flying Objects: Starcraft". Read and enjoy!

Denise M. Clark, reviewer
www.denisemclark.com


Unidentified Flying Objects: Starcraft
By Der Voron
ISBN: 1591297389
Publisher: PublishAmerica (http://www.publishamerica.com)

Review by Denise M. Clark

The existence of extraterrestrials has long been a subject of heated debate between scientists, scholars and stargazers who’ve spent many an hour studying the night sky and the universe beckoning beyond. Scientific proof of whether distant life forms and existence are legitimate causes yet an addition bone of contention between UFOlogists and skeptics alike, and while it’s easy to make jokes about Area 51 or Roswell, there is certainly a basis for those jokes and rumors. Something had to have happened in these places and many others throughout the globe to engender such speculation and argument.
 In his book, Unidentified Flying Objects: Starcraft, Der Voron has offered an extremely well researched and detailed report of incidents that have occurred all across the globe, from many different eras. Ancient writings may have been the first indication that ‘we are not alone’, and Der Voron cites several of these sources as an example. Such statements originate from many different countries and in different continents, from ancient times to contemporary, from Indian tales of events that took place in the wilds of Kipling country to experiences related by a German artillery gunner during World War Two. Reports of ‘unidentified contact with objects of undetermined origins’ have been filed in government offices from the plains of South America to the fjords of Norway and the steppes of Asia.

 Highly annotated and illustrated with fascinating examples of starship models and their possible makeup, armaments and defensive mechanisms, this ambitious work offers a wealth of documented information on not only Starcraft, otherwise known as ‘Flying Saucers’, but the types of extraterrestrials that have flown them. All aliens are not created equal, as their many varied depictions and origins in historical writings attests. The author’s use of a plethora of written documentation ably enhances his description of personal civilian and military accounts of those who have had some kind of interaction with these objects.
 Also explored in great detail is the intelligence of our sea life, mainly as that intelligence relates to dolphins and the octopi of our deepest oceans, and how they, in turn, can be used in the search for extended knowledge of the universe surrounding our planet. How and why these creatures have gained such highly specialized communication skills and how it is that an octopus can experience an event and not only remember it, but learn from it, is explored, and commented upon as it relates to man’s search for a higher intelligence.

 While replete with scientific data, terms and information, this work by Der Voron is nevertheless highly readable and extremely illuminating for the common reader with no prior knowledge of extraterrestrial existence, while at the same time it also provides hours of reading material and documentation to keep the more knowledgeable busy.
 Der Voron’s conscientious effort to dig deep for his sources shows in his detailed reports, and his data gathering and willingness to share that information is a challenging endeavor in which he has aptly succeeded. The existence of extraterrestrials is an immensely interesting topic, one that will be explored for years to come, and this work can provide as an invaluable asset to any stargazer’s bookshelf.


*Note: the reviewer grants permission to publish this review free of charge, as long as proper credit is given.

In 1974, while snorkling in Freeport Bahamas, I discovered a trench that was imbedded in the 20' ocean floor; 10' deep and 10' wide with perfect 90 degree angles, and it went straight as the eye could see. I think it was 2 miles off the east coast and ran east and west. I've never seen this on any discovery channel. Has anyone else seen this?

No, I haven't seen this. But I've found similar 90 angle underwater constructions in Corazal Bay, in Belize. However, because of algal plumes there I've only felt them, never seen them.


George Erikson

www.AtlantisInamerica.com

I'm not much into this stuff, but having seen that purportedly ancient map of an Antartica without ice, its coastline clearly visible and completely different from any map of the continent we have today, I'm intrigued. Of course, we have to allow for continental drift, which I'm not sure that map addresses, but I sure have to wonder if there's a "smoking gun" somewhere here. Anyone have any info?

I can't say anything about the continental drift, but there are lots of myths about civilizations in the antarctic. and the polar regions. I have a book called Arktos; the polar myth theory. It's a dry read, but it talks about a number of civilizations that have been said to have existed there, including the myth of Hyperborea that's been romanticized into a city surrounded by a magical forcefield in the middle of a frozen wasteland. (Sort of like the fantasy myth of Atlantis being a domed city underwater). Supposedly the nazis commissioned several expeditions there because they were after magical relics that were hidden in sites of these ancient civilizations. That's all heresay though. There was supposedly a compendium of books that were published by a german theosophist who pinpointed aryan origin in the polar regions, and justified Hitlers claim that Aryans were the rulers of the world. These books discussed Atlantis, and the powers of these polar civilizations. Supposedly. That's what is said by some to have spurred Hitler's whole campaign. These books were required reading for nazis, and are now (as would be expected) quite out of print. Of course I'm speaking from memory. I have the specifics buried in piles of notes. I got it off a TV show. I'm just rambling. That's all I know about the polar myths.


"I'm a rambler I'm a gambler I'm a long way from home

and if you don't like me then leave me alone

I'll eat when I'm hungry I'll drink when I'm dry

and if moonshine don't kill me I'll live till I die!"

-Irish drinking song-

 



>From: QT - Fran
>Reply-To: QT topic
>To: the_faery_princess@hotmail.com
>Subject: Team Atlantis
>Date: 2 Jan 2003 06:32:55 -0000
>

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supposedly,hitler had ties to the thule society. this is where he gained his information about ancient civilizations. i found the "map of the creator" to be far more intriguing since it appears to be at least 10 times older than the pri reis map.(im sure i spelled that wrong)

THat's right! The Thules ring a bell. A lot of this stuff I read a long time ago, and it's all just floating in my memory. What is the "Map of the Creator?" And the Pri Reis map?
> Reply by email or visit
> http://www.quicktopic.com/7/H/X3aL7efPmG5W/m143
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>
>supposedly,hitler had ties to the thule society. this is where
>he gained his information about ancient civilizations. i found
>the "map of the creator" to be far more intriguing since it
>appears to be at least 10 times older than the pri reis map.(im
>sure i spelled that wrong)
>_________________________________________________________________
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Oh nevermind about the Pri Reis map. I actually found reference to it in a great book I got for Christmas. Fascinating stuff about the ancient maps that document an island between the Americas and Africa. (Right where Plato said Atlantis was). The book I'm reading says that some of these maps depict Antarctica without ice, and placed it in that very spot, as if continental drift brought it to where it is today. It seems implausible however, because of the flood myths, and I don't think continents drift as quickly as it would have had to. I'm no geology buff though, but who knows. It's seems logical enough. I Like it better than other theories, and I don't like ideas about Atlantis being anywhere else but in the Atlantic.
I'm interested in this "Map of the creator." I also got a book called "maps of the ancient sea kings." I haven't read it yet, but maybe it'll be in there. The author was said to be a researcher of Atlantis, though he didn't publish that, to keep himself reputable.

I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew;
of wind I sang, a wind there came and in the branches blew.

There long the golden leaves have grown upon the branching years

while here beyond the sundering seas now fall the elven tears.

But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,

what ship would bear me ever back across so wide a sea?

-Tolkein-

>From: QT - Mara Fae
>Reply-To: QT topic
>To: the_faery_princess@hotmail.com
>Subject: Team Atlantis
>Date: 5 Jan 2003 05:13:44 -0000
>


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well if you acept the possibility of atlantis,then u must acept the possibility that antartica was ice free due to technology. since durring that period just about the whole planet was under ice anyways. atlantis was a civilization,not a city or land mass

heres a link to pravda(the russian paper)about the creator map. i think you'll find it interesting
http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/04/30/28149.html

Pravda? Is this the only place it's published? ;-) I'm saving the link because I can't read anymore. My head it stuffed with info that I have to process. Thanks so much! I'll do some more searching.




>-----------------------------------------------------------------

>

>heres a link to pravda(the russian paper)about the creator map.

>i think you'll find it interesting

>http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/04/30/28149.html

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You say due to technology? How about due to it just being ice free at the time? Why do you say it was a civilization anyway? I believe it was a civilization, but what's wrong with it being a land mass? Sorry, I'm being obsessive right now. I've been reading Atlantis stuff all day!!!




>

>well if you acept the possibility of atlantis,then u must acept

>the possibility that antartica was ice free due to technology.

>since durring that period just about the whole planet was under

>ice anyways. atlantis was a civilization,not a city or land mass

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well,because atlantis existed during the ice age,when nearly all the world was ice covered. also,we tend to refer to civilizations by their capitol cities(phoenecians for example). evidence of atlantis is spread all over the world. it kinda negates the land mass theory. the pyramids are of atlantean technology as well. thats why zahi is so adamant that they are egyptian. if u acept the possibility of ancient civilizations,then the whole mistique about egypt goes away. the 10.500bc dating is by far more logical
with the evidence anyways. it explains the extreme advances in technology by the peoples at giza. they were decendants of a lost civilization. stonehenge can be explained in the same way.

And the all the pyramids in south america too, I know... But you don't think that all these other places were just colonies of something more advanced? You don't vibe on the island in the Atlantic theory? As far as the capitol city naming thing, why is Atlantis not called Poseidia then? Isn't that what Plato said it was, or was that Edgar Cayce who said that? Ya know, the whole round city with alternating rings of land and water.... I know what you mean about Egypt... It's been said that they started out as advanced as they were throughout their entire history. Their mythology starts their history at 10,500bc, even though Egyptologists think it's something absurd like 2500bc. So I'm assuming that you don't buy the tomb concept of the pyramids too? It's amazing to try and imagine the level of technology they had, considering there is no modern technology that can make pyramids as perfect as the great pyramid out of the same material. I'm thinking that sound and magnetics are when built them. That's just a hunch though.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------

>

>well,because atlantis existed during the ice age,when nearly all

>the world was ice covered. also,we tend to refer to

>civilizations by their capitol cities(phoenecians for example).

>evidence of atlantis is spread all over the world. it kinda

>negates the land mass theory. the pyramids are of atlantean

>technology as well. thats why zahi is so adamant that they are

>egyptian. if u acept the possibility of ancient

>civilizations,then the whole mistique about egypt goes away. the

>10.500bc dating is by far more logical

>with the evidence anyways. it explains the extreme advances in

>technology by the peoples at giza. they were decendants of a

>lost civilization. stonehenge can be explained in the same way.

>_________________________________________________________________

>To unsubscribe: http://www.quicktopic.com/7/X/X3aL7efPmG5W

>Start your own topic in 20 seconds: http://www.quicktopic.com |QT


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I have to add my two bits (actually mor like 10 bits!). I have been researching civilization, climatic changes, and volcanic activity recorded in tree rings. I have used the internet for all of my information, but a lot of the info came from scientific web-sites, or news sites.
  Anyway, what we are looking at in my opinion is certainly Atlantis, and it is a mammoth discovery for mankind! I am going to get really out there when I say that it is goiing to be like peering into the future...This whole issue has really changed the way I look at life for humans. By the way, the city in atlantis was called T----. It started with a T, and that coincides with ancient writings in India of a place called Atlan, or something like that (they have information about a city as well, with the exact spelling as plato's city, described in the same way, as having a capitol building that was circular.) The teotihuacan's also had a similar name for the lost civilization, and it's city. Differences in languages would explain any slight differences in pronounciation. And it is becoming more clear that this was NOT an Island, but a coninent. It was not during the ice age, either. This was during a warm period of the earths existence.
  I am more of a creative learner, so I am terrible about taking down web-site addresses, or writing down facts (it would be easier for me if my printer was working). I am studying for my own curiosity. But I promise I will re-conduct the searches I did, and bring you back some more detailed info, as well as adresses.
  But..from what I have learned..The pyrimids all over the world (china as well) are some of the best clues that at one time, this earth and it's people had a very different, but just as modern society. They knew quite a bit about eachother, and they obviously influenced eachother. There were probably whole political systems in place. Plato says that the Atlanteans were terrific miners. Did you know that scientists in the US have known for over 100 years about an ancient quarry site in Michigan. They have been unable to explain it, but they do know that at one time there was millions of tons of Copper in the earth, and that the copper is missing. They can find no place that it could have been used. Atlanteans were said to have covered a lot of their structures with some type of metal (further adding to the beauty of it's cities). Zelitsky's team found evidence of quite a bit of metal when they did tests of the water (something magnetic, or vibratory).
Anyway, I am terribly facinated by all of this. Just so anxious to talk about it, but if you have noticed, it ain't really in the news! So I am finding it hard to get anyone to believe it is happeing at all.
I will come back with some references for you folks.

dear a.
yer right about michigan,but did you know about the radioactive fall out from ancient past there as well?
thats also how saddam was destroyed. anyways...
mara,i'm sure there was a land mass that sank. heres why:
the bermuda triangle! (yes i keep bringing up other topics but thats so you learn that its all connected)you see,the pyramids are power cells they collected ambient nrg from the atmosphere. and the reason we have intermitant magnetic disturbances in the triangle is because the great pyramid in the capitol city is there. suposedly 5000ft high! it survived the cataclysm because there nature was to absorb nrg. it could take a nuclear blast if it had to. and yes part of the earth was warm at the time. i never said all of it,just most of it ewas ice covered. oh yeah, they were excelent miners! so good,that they mined gold from mars!
they were power hungry,just like we are technology hungry.
hence the d&m pyramid at cydonia

Hey now Mike, I love to study the esoterics AND the sciences, but it is all conjecture unless you have physical evidence! If you start talking about esoteric concepts like mining on Mars, and a pyramid being in the Bermuda Triangle, you're talking about theories. How do you know they mined on Mars? And how did they get there? Also we are all well aware, I'm thinking, that the influence of this ancient civilization spanned across the globe, and that all of it is connected. BUT how do we know it wasn't another grand civilization that seeded all of it? Or Aliens for that matter if we want to talk about conjecture. I feel silly if I speak in absolutes about Atlantis. Where's the proof about the Bermuda Triangle!!!? Did team Atlantis go diving there and discover something cool? I really want to know where you get this information, and why you believe in it. Forgive me if I sound like I'm mocking you, or categorizing your words as hogwash. I'm really just teasing you. I love talking to people who are interested in the same subject as I am! Everyone else I talk to just wants me to educate them on what I know, which isn't as much as I want to know! So I just end up not talking to anyone because I want to learn! A, Thanks for your two cents. I would be MOST interested in hearing more about your studies. P.S. What's this about Saddam? :-) I have got to give you some shit. I wouldn't be who I am if I don't! I love to tease people so don't take me personally k? Thanks for talking to me, really, I do appreciate it. And I am really open minded, though things in my life have forced me to get my feet on the ground. >-----------------------------------------------------------------

>
>dear a.
>yer right about michigan,but did you know about the radioactive
>fall out from ancient past there as well?
>thats also how saddam was destroyed. anyways...
>mara,i'm sure there was a land mass that sank. heres why:
>the bermuda triangle! (yes i keep bringing up other topics but
>thats so you learn that its all connected)you see,the pyramids
>are power cells they collected ambient nrg from the atmosphere.
>and the reason we have intermitant magnetic disturbances in the
>triangle is because the great pyramid in the capitol city is
>there. suposedly 5000ft high! it survived the cataclysm because
>there nature was to absorb nrg. it could take a nuclear blast if
>it had to. and yes part of the earth was warm at the time. i
>never said all of it,just most of it ewas ice covered. oh yeah,
>they were excelent miners! so good,that they mined gold from
>mars!
>they were power hungry,just like we are technology hungry.
>hence the d&m pyramid at cydonia
>_________________________________________________________________
>To unsubscribe: http://www.quicktopic.com/7/X/X3aL7efPmG5W
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So A,
I re-read your email. Wow. There's some cool stuff in there. I have a few questions for you though... What Indian texts refer to the ancient city that coincides with Plato's description? Does anyone remember what Plato called the capitol? I have to dig out the Criteas. Blah! My books are all packed otherwise I'd try and refernce it myself. I thought it was Poseidia. Also, who's this Zelitsky fellow? Did he research the mining site in Michigan then? Also, where are the pyramids in China? Does anyone know this? I've known about them but for some reason have never pursued info on them. I figure that once I know enough about Atlantis I'll start pursuing the "around the world" info. Unfortunately I still don't know enough after many years! Yuck. I have a question for you all. Does anyone know about Record Keepers? They are found in crystals, and are said to store Atlantean knowledge. (Again, conjecture) From my studies it seems like crystals are a common theme in Atlantean power. Any thoughts?



I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew;
of wind I sang, a wind there came and in the branches blew.

There long the golden leaves have grown upon the branching years

while here beyond the sundering seas now fall the elven tears.

But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,

what ship would bear me ever back across so wide a sea?

-Tolkein-

>From: QT - A
>Reply-To: QT topic
>To: the_faery_princess@hotmail.com
>Subject: Team Atlantis
>Date: 7 Jan 2003 16:56:02 -0000
>


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< replied-to message removed by QT >

mara,sorry if i offended you with my research. the crystals
i assume you get from cayce materials? anyways funny you should mention them. its said that they were used to "tune" the pyramids. and its this big one that sets off the magnetic anomolies in the triangle. and what i said about mars isnt esoterics. its research by a mix of sources. you could start with www.enterprisemission.com
david hatcher childress is the author proposing the giza powerplant theory. i met him at an a seminar in ill last year. also just so u know, i'm not an esoterics kinda guy. i went dat route about 15 years ago. but if you wanna connect the dots, you have to think hyperdimmensionally. its what einstein realized when he finnished his uft.(yes he did in '38)with a uft,you can obtain free nrg as well as many other interesting things.

mara,oh yeah soddom is what i meant. if you read the "vedas"
you will find ample testimony towards high tech civilizations. i think they might be the "indian" texts you were asking about.
think about it.....u can't look back.....turned into a pile of salt.......it was nuked!

You didn't offend me! I was just teasing. I hope I didn't offend you! I value your research! It's hard to express that kind of thing in writing sometimes. I'm not there to make faces and punch you. :-) I love esoterics myself, but I hate to think of them as the final answer. Science is much too valuable. I met David Hatcher Childress too! His work is fascinating. What's urg? I'm assuming nrg is energy? Have you heard of record keepers? I don't think I got that from Cayce actually. I know he talked about them storing info in crystals. Someone told me about them years ago, and I've since seen them in crystals a lot. I've even had dreams about them. They are perfect triangles that are seemingly etched onto the surface of the crystal face. I'll have to check out this website about Mars. I'm a bit skeptical about it, but I do understand what you're sayin about thinking interdimensionally to "connect the dots". What do you know about the China connection? Has anyone written or theorized about it? The Vedas really mention Atlantis? Cool! I love the Indians. They are really fascinating too. How far back does their civilization supposedly date? Everyone, you have to excuse my childlike enthusiasm. I decided about 15 years ago that I wanted to be an Atlantis scholar when I grow up. Well, I guess I still haven't grown up yet! >-----------------------------------------------------------------

>
>mara,sorry if i offended you with my research. the crystals
>i assume you get from cayce materials? anyways funny you should
>mention them. its said that they were used to "tune" the
>pyramids. and its this big one that sets off the magnetic
>anomolies in the triangle. and what i said about mars isnt
>esoterics. its research by a mix of sources. you could start
>with www.enterprisemission.com
>david hatcher childress is the author proposing the giza
>powerplant theory. i met him at an a seminar in ill last year.
>also just so u know, i'm not an esoterics kinda guy. i went dat
>route about 15 years ago. but if you wanna connect the dots, you
>have to think hyperdimmensionally. its what einstein realized
>when he finnished his uft.(yes he did in '38)with a uft,you can
>obtain free nrg as well as many other interesting things.
>_________________________________________________________________
>To unsubscribe: http://www.quicktopic.com/7/X/X3aL7efPmG5W
>Start your own topic in 20 seconds: http://www.quicktopic.com |QT


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Mara,

You sent me an email asking about tours I'm offering. I have a new computer, and I somehow deleted your email! Let me post two trips that involve a partially underwater site (Cerros Maya) and a possibly preMayan site (Lubaantun)where the Mitchell-Hedges supposedly found the crystal skull. Both are in Belize, but we go the Yucatan and to Tikal in Guatemala.

Cuban site is not on the itinerary this year. Maybe next.

Please email me again!

George Erikson

SPECIAL LIMITED OFFER -- BOOK ONE PERSON AT FULL PRICE, SECOND GOES FOR HALF PRICE!*

Join George Erikson, Coauthor of Atlantis In America, in his investigation of the navigational implications of the stele, murals, temples and pyramids of Mexico, Belize and Guatemala.

Trip # 4 Feb 8-16, 2003. Belize and Guatemala (Tikal). Nine days - $1.999. 2nd Guest $999.
       -Arrive and depart Belize City.
       -Includes one day Reef Snorkeling (optional)
       -Sites include:
       Santa Rita -- The remains of the great mural of the Chontal Maya, navigators who connected the vast Mayan empire with worlds far away.
       Cerros Maya -- Across Corozal Bay stands a a barely excavated 73 foot pyramid that is partially submerged, possibly indicating construction at a time when sea levels were lower. Surrounding circular canals hearken back to Plato.
       Lubaantun -- A collapsed pyramid that is most unusual in its use of dressed and perfectly fitted large stone blocks, similar to the facing stones of Egypt's Giza Pyramids, but unlike the usual Maya technique of fitting irregular blocks with mortar. Possibly Pre-Mayan.
       Also: Cuello (pre-Mayan pyramid at least 3,500 years old), Tikal (The great Guatemalan trading center had a population of over 100,000), Lamanai, Altun Ha, Xunantunich, Caracol, and Nim Li Punit.

Trip #5 -- Feb. 16 - 24. Yucatan and Belize. 9 Days -- Ist Person - $1,999., 2nd Person $999.
       -Arrive and depart Cancun
       -Includes one day snorkeling
       -Sites include:
       -Chichen Itza -- Kukulcan Pyramid built as precise calendric measurement of the heavens and the seasons. Bearded "Uncle Sam" shows trade with Mediterranean peoples.
       Tulum & Coba -- Trading centers held together by great radiating sacbeob (interconnecting limestone roadways).
       Merida & Dzibilchaltun -- Enchanting Colonial City and pre-colonial ruins.
       Uxmal -- Pyramid of the Magician and great astronomical constructions.
       Also: Sayil, Labna, Kabah, and Muyil.

*All Prices are based on shared accomodations. Land cost only, includes first class accomodations, all meals, and all tours. Tours limited to a maximum of 14 guests.

Contact: George Erikson (760) 251-9342, Eriksongd@aol.com

SORRY MARA, I POSTED THIS LONG MSG ABOUT LOTS OF STUFF AND I LOCKED UP. IT WAS GONE. SO I GOT PISSED AND DIDNT POST FOR A WHILE. THE VEDAS TALK ABOUT FLYING MACHINES CALLED VIMANA'S. THEY ALSO TALK ABOUT EXTREME WEAPONS THAT COULD ONLY BE DESCRIBING NUCLEAR POWER. MOST OF IT IS ABOUT ANCIENT INDIA. WEATHER ITS ABOUT AN ATLANTIAN SOCIETY IM NOT SURE.OH YEAH, THE GREEKS USED TO BE REFERED TO AS THE "ATHENIANS" SO THERE ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF CAPITOLS BEING USED TO DESCRIBE A PEOPLE.

No problem about the posting thing Mike. I've had a lull in my research, so I haven't been responding. Getting ready for some travel in Feb. I was reading about some nuclear research in the Atlantis Blueprint by Rand Flemath and Collin Wilson, who's reseach I love! I recommend that book if you haven't read it. I'll definitely have to check out the Vedas. I've read a bunch about the theories that Atlantis had something akin to nuclear power, and that was partially the cause of their destruction. I'm still partial to the Antarctica theory these days too though. BUT that continent was not destroyed and didn't "sink beneath the waves". according to Plato's account, that would disqualify Antarctica. What I;ve also been interested in is the accounts of Fallen Angels, and their relationship to Atlantis. I've done a lot of reseach on the thoughts that "fallen angels" could have been what the ancients perceived as gods. (Not discounting the alien theories as well). But the book of Enoch says that the angels in heaven came down and mated with the daughters of men, blah blah blah. I'm just trying to piece together a possible Atlantean mythology system... IF a society that was world-wide, and advanced as highly or even more than modern day, then What kind of belief system did they have? Did they believe in gods? Cayce talks about the followers of One and the followers of Belial and that they were two belief systems that effected their socio-political system intimately. Were Atlanteans matriarchal or polytheistic? According to many mythologies, the age of patriachal and matriarchal religion is a fluctuating phenomenon. Do you have any insights into this? >-----------------------------------------------------------------

>

>SORRY MARA, I POSTED THIS LONG MSG ABOUT LOTS OF STUFF AND I

>LOCKED UP. IT WAS GONE. SO I GOT PISSED AND DIDNT POST FOR A

>WHILE. THE VEDAS TALK ABOUT FLYING MACHINES CALLED VIMANA'S.

>THEY ALSO TALK ABOUT EXTREME WEAPONS THAT COULD ONLY BE

>DESCRIBING NUCLEAR POWER. MOST OF IT IS ABOUT ANCIENT INDIA.

>WEATHER ITS ABOUT AN ATLANTIAN SOCIETY IM NOT SURE.OH YEAH, THE

>GREEKS USED TO BE REFERED TO AS THE "ATHENIANS" SO THERE ANOTHER

>EXAMPLE OF CAPITOLS BEING USED TO DESCRIBE A PEOPLE.

>_________________________________________________________________

>To unsubscribe: http://www.quicktopic.com/7/X/X3aL7efPmG5W

>Start your own topic in 20 seconds: http://www.quicktopic.com |QT


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I've read edgar cayces take on the subject and he suggested that the island sank due to the Atlanteans attempt to rid themselves of the unwanted slave class which he portends is part animal. He makes on change to Plato's version by stating that Atlantis sunk gradually - not overnight!
 Naturally there is no scientific basis to Edgar Cayce's theory but he is so generous as to give a "exact" location which eludes me at this time.

Found it...
http://edgarcayce.org/am/biminiexpedition.html

mara, the "fallen angels" are the nephilim. they are what we used to call giants. 12-16 ft tall. there was a cave discovered in the grand canyon decades ago. it contained mummies of giants and asorted treasures. of course its long since been sealed. as far as the mating goes, its physically imposible for obvious reasons. as to their beliefs,i think they were some what poly-theistic. and yes there were two groups. THEY BATTLED WITH THE ATHENIANS(theres that name again!)hehe its hard to fathom a society that existed for 70,000 years! i'm sure there spirituality was extremely developed.if you look at the aztec deities, they were mostly reptillian.quetzaquatle for example.its my theory that all dragon myths are derived from this same source,reptillian e.t.'s(hence gods.)the nephilim would have been there enforcers. Hitlers ss is said to have been modeled after them.

Cayce's take on the Atlantean belief system is this. The Island was broken into two factions the Followers of the Law of One and the Sons of Belial. They both believed in a creating force of the universe which was refered to as "the light". The similarities end there. The Sons of Belial held firm in their convictions that "the light" existed within all humans and as such further development was uneccessary. Thus indulging themselves in egocentric matters and rather cruel experiments.
 The follwers of the law of One believed that the "light" was something to be worked towards and thus acted accordingly. The best way to work for the "Light" was through a selfless love of all sentient beings in the universe.
-----------------------------------------------------------
The Idea that a dragon-like race was worshiped by ancient civilizations would be an interesting subject to research. Are you two aware of two very similar stories held by Egypt and Tibet in which their Hero-leader of ancient time "destroyed the ladder to the Gods" thus releasing their dependence on these creatures?

JOE, the fact that u accept the possibility of atlantis negates the common theory that egyptian society had any original contributions to technology,the pyramids,or anything. geologists have shown the giza plateau to be much older than what is accepted. i'm familiar with cayce tho.
but i think people need to expand their ideas on what atlantis was. look at the artifacts discovered of the coast of cuba, the strange ruts in malta that run into the sea, the pyramids under the coast of japan. the evidence is far too reaching to think atlantis was just an island.if you are familiar with masonic,and rosicrucian history,it could be interperated that the usa itself is part of atlantis. look at the miami circle! the pentagonal shape of D.C. it's all connected.

Hi guys. Mike, How do you know there wasn't another civilization that connected everything together? I totally agree that civilization once spanned across the globe. But if you study Churchward and the Children of Mu, his reserach was all about symbols and archaological evidence that civilization once spread across the globe, and that it was originating in the Pacific, not necessarily the Atlantic. The Theosophists also said that LeMUria came first. How do you know Atlantis wasn't a colony of that civilization, along with all the cities in S America, Asia, etc. ? I totally think that Atlantis was in the Atlantic, because of Plato and, well, the name of ocean seems to stem from that name, but all my studies say that the power spot of this ancient global civilization was in the Pacific. Also, I like to try and imagine a world of autonomous cultures that weren't governed by a world order. There woudn't have been war and major upheaval if it was all governed by one faction, unless there was rebellion. They may have all posessed similar information and have even been seeded by the same source, but I would think that any world civilization would be similar to the multiple countries of the modern day. Joe, I'm very interested in what you say about the myth of the hero that destroyed this ladder. What was the gist of the story? Or rather, how can I find it to read about it? Does it have to do with the reptilian info?
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MARA,i never said it started anywhere. but my research has shown lemuria ,and mu to be a few out of several ancient civilizations. atlantis is just the most recent,next to ours.remember,the map of the creator(found in the ukraine)is dated around 2 million years old. too old for atlantis,but high tech relief map just the same. so there were high tech folks around at least 2 million years ago. plus once you get up past 500,000 years or so, carbon dating isnt all that accurate. they fail to take into acount magnetic anomolies from past cataclysms. so the creator map alone kinda points toward europe. not that it really matters where,its all one planet. and "we" just like everything else are connected! i believe the ladder to heaven story might be similar to the tower of bable story. we originally had just one language. it was corupted to cause confusion,therfore an illusion of separateness. also that we are somehow blocked from connecting with our spiritial selves.

  My main hobby for the past 50 years has been Astronomy (NOT Astrology) so lets get that clear at the start.
   This site has a lot of interesting reading & discussion as there is obviously a multitude of scientific diciplines giving a lot of useful info. Which eventually will lead to an overall better understanding of the subjects under discussion.

   However,my interest here lies basically with the ground positions of the Giza pyrimids matching the 3 stars in the belt of the constellation Orion.

   To kick a new discussion line here are my observations.

   basically I agree with the hypothisis

   I think it is now well established the constellation of Orion played a big part in ancient Egyptian history but it was only recently since the advent of satellite technology have we come to understand that these three pyramids are placed in such a special manner. In essence we are also seeing other sites representing other stars in the constellation of Orion also having or have had a 'pyramid' at the GPS site of the relevent star.

  Now my logic dictates it is very unlikely the Egyptians had any outside influence from 'extra terrestrial beings. The reason is the pyramids are layed out with limited knowledge of the three stars involved of which now we have much more knowledge of their properties and make up.

  If ETBs were involved I am sure they would have given this knowledge which should then have led to the building of six pyrimids on the sight. Not three...

  The reason:

  1) The LH star in Orions belt is called 'Alnitak' and is not a single star. It is made up of three components, a triple of 2.5, 6.5 & 9.0 magnitudes. Whether these are gravitational bound or just line of site I,m not sure

  2) The centre star is called 'Alnilam' (Epsilon Orion) and IS a single star of class B0

  3) The RH star is called 'Minakah' ( Delta Orion) and consists of two components, a double star with magnitudes 2.5 & 6.8

   Has anybody any further thoughts on this obsevation and wishes to clarify its integrity please?

  Steve

I was just wondering how can an advance civilization dissapear? Is there any connections between Egypt and Atlantis?

STEVE,your observation is good,but old news. limited knowledge doesn't explain the placement of 100+ ton stones down to a millimeters accuracy. plus its somewhat imposible for a group of nomads on horseback to go evolve into a high tech society in under 400 years. wich is what you are saying if you accept the current dating of giza.

Daniel, as far as my research is concerned, the pyramids are atlantean technology. built by decendants after the flood. for the same reasons i told Steve. there are countless correlations of stars and ancient sites on earth.
even modern events like 911. if you were to take them all into account, you must come to a conclusion they they are merely reflections of unfolding events. remember the hermetic maxim(as above,so below). space/time is really fluid,not linear. its all connected and reflects as such.

Hi Daniel, It's been said by the people we've been talking about that Atlantis sank beneath the ocean by some catastrophic event. Edgar Cayce said that it was a series of catastrophes that broke it up over a long period of time. Others have theorized that Atlanteans were war mongers, and that they developed something akin to nuclear power, and that was what destroyed them. Plato also said that the civilization sank beneath the waves. Mike's been trying to say that Atlantis was not on one land mass, but was a global civilization. In that case, how can it have disappeared? The question gets confusing then. I can't answer that. I don't agree that it was a global civilization. I think it influenced civilizations around the globe, and then in that case it never did disappear. It has endured even to this day! Okay it's late, I'm giddy. As far as Egypt, go to the quicktopic and check out what people have been saying about it. http://www.quicktopic.com/7/H/X3aL7efPmG5W/m170
It's been said that Egypt was a colony of Atlantis, or that Atlanteans went there and brought their religion and technology.
STEVE and MIKE, etc: I've heard a lot about the Giza pyramids being aligned with the belt of Orion. I was interested a long time ago in Orion and did a ton of research about it. That was BEFORE I found out about the alignment of the stars in its belt with the Giza plateau. Here's some of what I found: There are a group of aboriginees in Australia who believe they came from Orion originally. Blavatsky I think also said that Hyperboreans migrated from Orion, and that they were the black root race.? I have to reread Blavatsky. There are also tribes in Africa who trace their lineage to an Orion migration. I've been reading a lot of esoterics for the answers... As you all know I'm not huge on believing them, but I like them, so here's what I found... There is also a doctrine called Eckankar, which is the science of soul travel through dreams. Crazy stuff. They have a book that traces the history of earth. In it, they have documented a time when black people ruled the world, and they are called Hyperboreans. I'm not so sure what the Orion connection is with Atlantis and Hyperboreans. Hyperborea, I believe is akin to the Thules that were supposedly in Antarctica. Hitler was searching for remnants of their civilization because they were supposed to have ruled the world much the same way that he wanted to rule the world. Plus they dominated through black magic. Don't laugh! This is what I read. The Eckists say this too. Now I stumbled across one of the stories of Sinbad the sailor that talks about a civilization that was frozen in ice, and that its magic was still hidden there. It was called Hyperborea. Whoa! Well, these people are, no doubt associated with Orion! Lastly on my Antarctica rampage, I ran across the bunch of books by a woman named Solara. She does all the stuff on 11:11. In her books she talks about the belt of Orion being something she calls the Antarion Conversion zone. If you take two pyramids and draw them with the points facing each other, their points together make a triangle, and somehow line up with the orion belt and the golden section that is also represented in the Giza plateau. This is supposedly some mystical symbol that symbolizes the migration through Orion; that evil came to the planet through this zone, and one day a migration of pure souls will pass through the zone again. SO it could have been (I'm theorizing) that Orion figured into Atlantean mythology if they were tied into all this stuff. It's just a wild goose chase I've been indulging in on my quest to trying to figure out what Atlantean mythology was about.





Any thoughts?

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Hello Mike

First I am not saying they (the Egyptians that is) did not have the skills to lay 100Ton + blocks to and accuracy of 1 mm. The blocks are there to that accuracy. There masonary skills were obviously second to none. BUT its their astronomical knowledge that appears limited...Purely flat non telescopic 2 dimensional observations similar to the works of Tyco Brahe.

The dating of the Giza Ps I believe has been verified one way by one of the internal chambers in the biggest pyrimid having a 'window' pointing to where the three stars of 'Orion was about what 4000/6000 years ago? The decrepency on today's positions being accounted for by the 26000 year precession of the First point of Aries.

This also leads to another enigma with the Sphinx.. Is it not a lion? Positioned facing the horizon to greet the constellation Leo rising almost horizontally to the horizon in front of it at one particular time of year?. Allowing again for the precessional distortion of the First point of Aries I beleive this occured about 10000/12000 years ago. I need to research to clarify this is correct and was indeed the era of the last 'Age of Leo' when the FP of A was last in Leo. Whicht is it, roughly 2200 years in each house (God I,m talking Astrology! But then in those days the astronomical side was a free lunch!) So 10000/12000 years will take us back say 5 houses to Leo.

Regulas is a vey bright giant star which could have been of some
significance to the Egyptians around that time, The rising of Leo about 10 to 12000 years ago would have brought it to rest on the horizon at about the time of the commencement of the great flooding of Nile , in July.
Well what do we have here? Another ancient Rolex watch like Stonehenge? Which basically is just 'up the road' to me (200 miles) or is something completely different?



>
< replied-to message removed by QT >

mara, hi. very impressive connection with blavetsky!so you are familiar with the thules. have you checked out the veda's yet? try http://www.sacred-texts.com/index.htm

steve, i agree about the shafts appearant allignments with orion. i also feel the stars "orion"tation hehe, is more of an astrological phenomina. a reflection of a different connection. what if their true allignment is to a magnetic point on the continant. like a node on a graph. the node would intersect dimensions. if you aply the hermetic maxim(as above,so below) a magnetic node would intersect 3rd/4th densities as well. what we perceive to be "free energy" could be a different form of technology utilizing totally new physics and different perspectives of reality.
being strange technology compared to our own, we could easily take a visual exam and mistakenly proclaim stonhenge and the great pyramid to be for different purposes. i meant from their true one,not from each other.

Did the Atlanteans have a written language? Has anyone seen the written language in any place maybe Egypt or any scriptures where it talked about Atlantis?

daniel, i believe the artifacts off the coast of japan have symbologies. or i may be thinking of the ones off cuba

I think atlantis has a written language under the sea which hasn't been discovered because it is too deep or maybe hidden under all the sands on ancient walls under some big body of water. A global flood may have caused that to happen and their civilization to disapear.

That is my theory

DANIEL, i believe the flood was the last of the 3 cataclyzm's to strike the main city in atlantis. various evidence puts it around 12,000 years ago. that puts it only a few hundred years before the 10,500 dating of giza. thats why i believe the descendants of survivors built stonhenge and giza. the reason they can't account for the extra water above the site is because all the water from mars was taken by earth when they passed closely by each other. aug 27th will be the closest in 75,000 years. venus is only a recent addition to our system. when it came in it sent mars out of orbit. such cosmic level forces could easily accout for a drastic shift in continental plates. there has been evidence to support the theory that a large chunk of the plate under the atlantic experienced a 2000 or so foot drop.

This is to mike.
I was just wondering if your really in the Atlantis team and actually go to places and look for evidence of Atlantis

DANIEL, i don't believe i ever made such a claim. why?

Sorry Mike, But in terms of a global civilization, I'm gonna have to side with Mara. If the Atlanteans had been a global civ. then the desruction of one part of it would not have brought about their demise. Add to that, the fact that ideas/inventions that are attributed to atlantis have been found in other cultures can easily be attributed to the fact that they left their island to seek safety someplace else. Naturally, they'd take their knowledge with them.
Also, I'm not so sure that the hero-ladder story has anything to do with the parable found in the tower of babel. First of all, both stories (strikingly similar but both found very far apart) make absolutely no reference to language or any other reference found in the tower of babel. The babel story tells of how mankind was factioned up and torn apart whereas this story tells how mankind was 'liberated'. And Mara, I'll get U the exact stories, their are not in the same book I just noticed how similar they were- As soon as I get the right ones I'll let U know!

re. Atlantis as global civilisation: consider Greece! the destruction of the core of any civilization means dis-integration for the rest.From Sumer,Babylon,Persia, Greece and Rome there is entropy.This is not an argument, it is fact! consider the lost intellectual property that died with each.These cultures did not suffer from "cataclysms", yet they vanished with their secrets. we can't glue bricks together as did the Romans, etc.The surving colonies did not revive the culture.

That's a valid point, but Greece was the Capitol of it's society. Under what pretense are we to assume that this lost Island was the Capitol of the "Glogal" civilization? Without a valid reason to believe that Atlantis was "the main base" you have no arguement/fact because without that proof or even the proof of Atlantis' very existence, we're ALL just whistlein' in the wind!

HEHE,Good one joe.

Joe, maybe the stories are so similar because they are really one story.

Actually, Mike, that COULD be right. According to the intro of the Tibetian Book of the dead, Tibet used to invite scholars from all over the continent to exchange philosophies and ideas, perhaps Egypt was on the A-list!

joe,I know . I used to have it,but i never got it back. i lose more books dat way.as far as greece goes,they might have been tough. they were still young pups compared to a 70,000 year old society. i figure atlantis was well on its last leg before the (athenians) defeated them. probably why plato was caught up in all the(look how great this must have been)hype. just like people do about giza.

I'm with Matt. He's drunk and so are we. We're having fun. I know you're jealous of that too. Yeah, we haven't seen his penis yet, but we're working on it.

FYI:

The ladies below are referring to another "Matt". Ladies, please refrain from talking about people's anatomy on this site, ok?

Thx,

Matt

Hello. Atlantis is in the South China Sea, around present day Indonesia. This is the theory of an excellent websight I saw. The author has been studying Atlantis for 20 years, and is a doctoral engineer. He is Portugese, and has written a book that he's trying to get published in English. He says Atlantis was a continent near sea-level between Asia and Australia, which disappeared undersea at the end of the Pleistocene Ice Age when Krakatoa exploded. He cites a National Geographic map from 1988 that shows a continent in that location around 10,000 bc at the end of the Ice Age. I think "teamatlantis" should organize a serious expedition to the South China Sea. The depth is only about 100 meters, and the subs should reach it easily. I would like to be part of this expedition, and future expeditions. Please email me with any info at kelloggjeff@hotmail.com

Hi Mike,
My name is Helen, been studying anthropology for some 30 years, and have much valuable information regarding your search for this elusive island called Atlantis. Basically this is the core to the white homosapien man that came from the planet Venus which was a beautiful planet able to sustain life much the same as earth, at the time venus was in the orbit of mars at the time, these people had precognition powers, and forsaw the coming of thier destiny they knew that Mars being a foreign planet to our solar system was enrout for collision with venus, these humanoids on venus knowing that thier planet would be lost began to garden the earth and interstellar flights were not uncommon, thier base was the island of Atlantis.
When the collision took place Venus hurled passed the earth causing the magnetic poles to shift around 11 time, the furtherest south was the nth pole was down as far as San franciso, the ear toppled even rerotated back the front....caused immediate ice age conflict, following many cataclysmic events in the follow thousands of years, imagining the land mass at the time and the pole shifts in conjunction with this Atlantis would have been in tropical climatic conditions, which meant her terrain would have changed during the recession of the iceage.
These humanoids were of a much higher intelligence, for example they were like Christ for example had these mystical powers that came naturally to them. The earths crust and under its surface contains crystal about 75% of the earth is covered in it, as you know the power of the Quartz crystal, these beings were in tuned to the powers and conducted many experiments with it, for they could store valuable information within the crystal much like a hard drive in a computer.
According to some data on Plato's theories that Atlantis was as big as Asia Minor, you could cross from one continent to another, having looked at the geographical aspect all through the Atlantic Ocean found nothing that I was looking for, however, one evening sitting by the fire, and was scanning through Platoes theorys, in conjunction with the ancient maps, when I made the amazing discovery.
If you will look at the ancient maps of atlantis...you will find that it matches up with that of the Antartic island. You will notice that you can cross from one continent to another and at the time of the poles going back to its magnetic access....antartic would have been up around the tropic of capricorn if you tilt a world globe you will justify and qualify my theory.
To derive at my conclusion took me many years because my research and studies was to find the Purpose of Man, it has been a very long but interesting journey culminated with research and a lot of common sence and contemplation to derive at these conclusions.
There is much much more involved than I have just mentioned here, do hope you find a way to maybe check out my theory with geologists in the south pole region, see what comes up. I understand that currently they are experiencing anomallies down there, all about Lake Vortex...scientists are dying as a result of some kind of fall out....as you know antlantis did experience an explosion in her time.
my email if you should care to liase more with me is:
henny_sweet2003@mail.com
would love to hear your progess on viewing my theory.
Helen....

WATCH YR THOUGHTS THEY BECOME YR WORDS.
WATCH YR WORDS THEY BECOME YR ACTION.
WATCH YR ACTION THEY BECOME YR HABITS.
WATCH YR HABITS THEY BECOME YR CHARACTER.
                               http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/facethefacts

HELEN,
Interesting theory. my own research has a similar story but with the charactors slightly rearranged. the way i understand it is that venus was a lone astral body that was captured by our sun. this sent mars into earth. earth having more mass,stole all the water from mar's surface.this is why the ruins off the coast of cuba appear to be so much deeper than they should be. there is just more water here than b4.

Where do you read about all this Mars and Venus stuff? Hey! Does the asteroid belt have anything to do with all this? Is all this a Sitchin or a Von Daniken thing? Not that I'm complaining! And how do the pyramids and sphinx face on Mars figure in? Helen, I didn't respond to you because you addressed it to Mike, but just out of curiosity, (Because I'm the devil's advocate around here) How do 30 years of anthropological research give you knowledge about Venus? I wasn't aware there was life on Venus that's been known or accepted by any human science. I like to give Mike trouble because he refers to esoteric ideas as facts. I love his research but It's important to approach a conjectural idea like the existence of Atlantis with as much backing as possible, lest you run the risk of not being taken seriously. There are lots of dreamers in the world, especially revolving around this subject. Don't get me wrong though! It's hard not to come across offensive in writing. But if you were face to face with me you'd be laughing because I'm really just teasing. I study esoterics too, but I never just throw out theories and say they're fact. I'd very much like to know what evidence you have to support your conclusions.


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On another note, I was curious if anyone knew if there are any conferences or anything that actually discusses the subject of Atlantis. I think there should be. Because it would be nice for a bunch of people who pursue Atlantis research to be able to gather and present ideas.
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hey Mara,
hehe, if you expect to master this reality you simply have to let go of your "need" for confirmation. reality is fluid.
Facts change all the time. 100 years ago man not flying was a "fact". ETC....

the pyramids on mars,and the face are of the same technology
as the ones on giza. atlantis had a mining colony on mars.
yes the asteroid belt used to be a planet called kantek. it's where the celts and the arians came from.

as far as where my research is based, i figure that anyone who considers himself a scholar would know.

Edited by author 04-01-2003 03:02 AM
Hi Mike,

Just wanted to send you this url for consideration regarding the human species, rather interesting. Amazing how the world does not get to know of such things ie; the archeology coverups.

Hope you received my peace of data on the antartic anomallies.

With regard to the Giza Platau, according to the egyptian hyrogliphics they spoke of the "People of the Sea" the egyptians captured and held them imprisoned, where these people came from is unknown, was a mystry, wonder who they were!

However, I have currently discovered the facts behind the building of the pyramids enigma, apparently the mid east would you believe Iraq...holds the secret of the "Power of the 8th Light" this power was able to do many things...for eg: Cut tonnes of stone into blocks and transfer them any distance without them being touched. Amazing things happened in our ancient past, ironically would be interesting to know how they aquired such a Power, these are things people are not aware of only people who have the insight to know of thier existence.

There is supposedly to be a Time Capsule between the Sphinx and the Nile, that holds the trueths behind mans existence, I have known about this for many years, and have been awaiting its discovery. Bit like the disiphering of the "Dead Sea Scrolls" huh?

With regards to the Mars, Venus thing we discussed earlier, scientists say that Mars should be able to sustain life because of its atmosphere, however, it is a very dead planet, however, consider this, if its atmosphere was only missing a few elements to sustain life there, wouldnt you think life would be there. Venus was in that Orbit Mars she was a planet not unlike earth. Mars is a foreign planet to our solar system, she came hurling through space and did collided with Venus shooting her towards the sun causing cataclysmic events to the earth as she passed. If you will note the face of a sphix and a pyramid there on Mars...just maybe the Atlanteans did revisit Mars in the hopes that this planet could become thier home again. Egyptians do have a connection to the Atlantean people.

Just suppose Atlantis did not fall beneath the ocean...lets suppose it went beneath the Ice, ie; the antartic ice.

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/arcoverups.html

Helen

HELEN, HI
MARS IS NOT OUR HOME. EARTH ISNT EVEN OUR "ORIGINAL" HOME.
THE ANKH IS THE SYMBOL FOR OUR SUPER ANCIENT HOME WORLD
D'ANKHAR. CYDONIA IS AN OLD ATLANTEAN MINNING COLONY.
IS THAT LINK WHERE YOU GUYS GET THE MARS IS A FOREIGN BODY INFO FROM? I SORTA FIGURED THAT AS WE GET CLOSER,THERED START BEING MORE DISSINFO ABOUT SUCH THINGS. AND YES I TOTALLY AGREE THAT MOST IMPORTANT DISCOVERIES ARE COVERED UP.YOU EVER HERE ABOUT THE CAVE IN THE GRAND CANYON? HOW ABOUT THE ANCIIENT COPPER MINES IN MICHIGAN? YES THEY BOTH RELATE TO ATLANTIS.
BUT WAIT,THERES A BIGGER PICTURE YOU MUST View. WHY WOULD THEY NOT WANT YOU TO KNOW ABOUT OUR TRUE HISTORY? WHAT IS IT THAT WE MUSTN'T KNOW? IN THAT RESPECT,IT'S JUST LIKE EINSTEINS UFT. HE FINNISHED IT IN '38,BUT THEY TELL IS HE DIED B4 HE DID IT. IT'S RELATED BECAUSE TO HAVE A UNIFIED FIELD THEORY THAT WORKS,YOU MUST AKNOWLEDGE HIGHER REALMS OF AWARENESS.I.E.4TH DENSITY REALITY.HMMMMMM WONDER WHAT SUCH A SLIVER OF KNOWLEDGE WOULD DO TO THE WORLD OF TECHNOLOGY.HEHE WELL FREE NRG WOULD BE THE SIMPLEST NEXT STEP FOWARD WOULDNT IT? AND SPACE/TIME TRAVEL WOULD BE SIGNIFICANTLY EASIER WOULD IT NOT?
SO YOU CAN SEE THAT AN ANCIENT CIVVILISATION,EVEN IF ONLY SLIGHLY MORE ADVANCED,COULD HAVE EASILY FORMED THE COLONIES ON THE MOON AND MARS.

Just a little thought...

As there are so many ancient cultures with stories of flooded worlds and sunken cities, would this not point to the possibility of a cross continent civilisation that pre-dates the end of the last ice age?

The Alantians did not fall beneath the ocean... It rose over them.

We already know that modern man is much older than previously thought.

When it comes to sites or discoveries which have been "covered up" often this can be due to historians who will have their lifes work ruined by the artifacts. There is also the fact that archealogical hoaxes used to make people very rich.

However I am very interested in this network of caves in the grand canyon. Many ancient races carved buildings of great cultural significance into the face of cliffs and mountains. Please tell me more...

Helen> I checked out that link... Interesting but a little narrow in it's scope. The Ica Stones? We have no idea when many fish species died out. We can only guess and are often proved wrong.

The truth is that the scientific communities do not co-operate. Yopu need to study each area in depth to see the big picture. I believe that the origins of man have been inaccurately documented and need to be fully investigated to discover the lost civilisations and forgotten cultures of this planet.

Regards

Lucy

Lucy, i was only speaking about a single cave,however if you are refering to the tunnels,well they kinda run on forever. they connect Edwards to Nellis to dreamland to etc.....i spent a year at Edwards. the cave goes back to 19th century explorers. they spotted the cave while going down the colo river. when they entered it they discovered various gold items and some mummified solders mthat were over 8 ft tall. yes this relates to all those rather large femurs many antropologists have talked about. our real history includes giants as well as "other beings". the truth is simple,thats why the various truth revealing discoveries are covered up.

Did you live there or did you actually do some exploration? So, what are the tunnels supposed to be again?







>From: QT - MIKE
>Reply-To: QT topic 7-X3aL7efPmG5W
>To: QT topic subscribers
>Subject: Team Atlantis
>Date: 6 Apr 2003 20:44:57 -0000
>

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< replied-to message removed by QT >

Where do you guys come up with the cash for your equipment?! Holee, whenever I mount an expedition, it's usually 7 grand or less, and I rely more on my mouth, multiple language ability, and personal relationship skills to persuade people to get them to help me out... which actually has been pretty effective. Getting the local's trust goes a long way. Still, I think the only thing I've blown money on was a steel mountain bike and panniers. You guys on the other hand, do you guys run businesses on the side? I can't figure out how you guys come up with the money! I'm at the moment learning business just so that I can continue my expeditions!

Subj: Washington Post
Date: 10/17/2002 11:02:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: Eriksongd
To: Eriksongd


Mysterious stones off coast of Cuba spur speculation
Some believe they're fragments from the legendary lost city of Atlantis
Kevin Sullivan, Washington Post Saturday, October 12, 2002

Havana -- The images appear slowly on the video screen, like ghosts from the ocean floor. The videotape, made by an unmanned submarine, shows massive stones in oddly symmetrical square and pyramid shapes in the deep-sea darkness. Sonar images taken from a research ship 2,000 feet above are even more puzzling. They show that the smooth, white stones are laid out in a geometric pattern. The images look like fragments of a city, in a place where nothing man-made should exist, spanning nearly eight square miles of a deep-ocean plain off Cuba's western tip. "What we have here is a mystery," said Paul Weinzweig, of Advanced Digital Communications, a Canadian company that is mapping the ocean bottom of Cuba's territorial waters under contract with the government of President Fidel Castro. "Nature couldn't have built anything so symmetrical," Weinzweig said, running his finger over sonar printouts aboard his ship, tied up at a wharf in Havana harbor. "This isn't natural, but we don't know what it is." The company's main mission is to hunt for shipwrecks filled with gold and jewels, and to locate potentially lucrative oil and natural gas reserves in deep water that Cuba does not have the means to explore. Treasure hunting has become a growth industry in recent years as technology has improved, allowing more precise exploration and easier recovery from deeper ocean sites. Advanced Digital operates from the Ulises, a 260-foot trawler that was converted to a research vessel for Castro's government by the late French oceanographer Jacques Cousteau. Since they began exploration three years ago with sophisticated side-scan sonar and computerized global-positioning equipment, Weinzweig said they have mapped several large oil and gas deposits and about 20 shipwrecks sitting beneath ancient shipping lanes where hundreds of old wrecks are believed to be resting. The most historically important so far has been the U.S. battleship Maine, which exploded and sank in Havana harbor in 1898, an event that ignited the Spanish-American War. In 1912, the ship was raised from the harbor floor by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and towed out into deeper water four miles from the Cuban shore, where it was scuttled. Strong currents carried the Maine away from the site, and its precise location remained unknown until Ulises' sonar spotted it two years ago. Then, by sheer serendipity, on a summer day in 2000, as the Ulises was towing its sonar back and forth across the ocean like someone mowing a lawn, the unexpected rock formations appeared on the sonar readouts. That startled Weinzweig and his partner and wife, Paulina Zelitsky, a Russian-born engineer who has designed submarine bases for the Soviet military. "We have looked at enormous amounts of ocean bottom, and we have never seen anything like this," Weinzweig said. The discovery immediately sparked speculation about Atlantis, the fabled lost city first described by Plato in 360 B.C. Weinzweig and Zelitsky were careful not to use the A-word and said that much more study was needed before such a conclusion could be reached. But that has not stopped a boomlet of speculation, most of it on the Internet. Atlantis-hunters have long argued their competing theories that the lost city was off Cuba, off the Greek island of Crete, off Gibraltar or elsewhere. Several Web sites have touted the images as a possible first sighting. Among those who suspect the site may be Atlantis is George Erikson, a California anthropologist who co-authored a book in which he predicted that the lost city would be found offshore in the tropical Americas. "I have always disagreed with all the archaeologists who dismiss myth," said Erikson, who said he had been shunned by many scientists since publishing his book about Atlantis. He said the story has too many historical roots to be dismissed as sheer fantasy and that if the Cuban site proves to be Atlantis, he hopes "to be the first to say, 'I told you so.' "
George Erikson , Coauthor of Atlantis In America: Navigators of the Ancient World

AtlantisInAmerica.com
Eriksongd@aol.com
760 251-9342

All of this is really interesting.

HERES AN ARTICLE ABOUT THE CAVE I WAS REFERING TO!


 Use This Drop Down Menu For Quick Site Navigation of 1909 Grand Canyon Story Links Return to Lost Civilizations and Hidden Mysteries Introduction How I came in Contact With the 1909 Story Lost City of the Dead in the Grand Canyon The Importance of the find in 1909 March 12, 1909 "G.E. Kincaid Reaches Yuma 1909 Story Was Not "Inquirer" Type Sensationalism Was This Cave An Ancient Buddhist Temple? The Imagination of the Fictionist "Prince Izon" Professor S. A. Jordan? Official Smithsonian Replies to Inquiries Diagram of the Underground "Cave" and Rooms and Tunnels Copper at the Cave Site Was or Is There a Conspiracy Coverup of this Cave Site? Racism in the 1909 Article? Is this Cave at Isis Temple and Is the Area "Off Limits"? Was the Cave "Located on Government Land" in 1909? Kincaid's Small Skiff (boat) and the Rough Grand Canyon Rapids The Location of Kincaid's "Cave" Revealed !!! Kincaid Said There Once Was Water at the Cave Level of 2000 Feet? Kincaid Lugged a Large Old Bulky and Heavy Camera Up the Grand Canyon Cliffs? Kincaid Travelled to Yuma and Passed Through Laguna Dam Over a Hundred Feet From the Entrance is the Cross-Hall and the "Buddha" Shrine The Ancient People of the Cave Knew How to Harden Copper? Strewn All Over the Floor Were Carved "Cat's Eye" Stones Are These Images the Actual Hieroglyphics in the 1909 Cave? Why Did Someone Delete References in the Internet Version of the 1909 Story? Mysterious "Canal"? Lines Above the Site of the 1909 Cave (See the Images!!) Jack Andrews Artist's Rendition of the Crypt in the 1909 Grand Canyon Cave (View 1) Jack Andrews Artist's 2nd Rendition of the Crypt in the 1909 Grand Canyon Cave (View 2) The Hopi Grand Canyon "Underworld" More Links to come!! Please Visit Often, Thank You - Jack Andrews



Lost City of the Dead
in the
Grand Canyon
Ongoing Research by Jack Andrews and Susan Anway
and a team of explorers
 
 
Jack Andrews

Who Am I? My Resume is now here
 

 

Discovered in 1908 at the Grand Canyon of Arizona by G. E. Kinkaid of Lewiston, Idaho

    


If you have any pertinent information regarding this "cave", G. E. Kinkaid, Professor S. A. Jordan, or the Smithsonian Institute's alleged involvement in this story, please do not hesitate to contact me at vrartist@gci-net.com . ALL correspondence to me regarding your possible knowledge involvement or experience at or about this "cave" will be kept confidential or "anonymous" if you wish. - Jack Andrews

For anyone having problems with the email address above, sorry, it is now corrected and should work.

 

 I have moved all Links to new information discovered and brand new research on the story below, to it's own page, to make this page easier to read. You can access all the latest NEW info on this amazing story by: CLICKING THIS LINK
 




The basic layout of this web site is that the majority of links will originate from within the original 1909 "Arizona Gazette" story, below. Each link in the text will open a new window.

This means that you can just close the new window after reading it to return to this main page.


  

"Lost Civilizations and Hidden Mysteries Discussion Group"
JOIN HERE
The link above will open a new browser window where you can read about the group and click the "Join This List" button, to join the group.

Posted to the group November 5, 2001:

Hi all,
Below is the warning I have on my web site:http://www.gci-net.com/users/v/vrartist/ "Lost Civilizations and Hidden Mysteries". The warning also extends to this group. By maintaining and posting to this group, the same warnings below apply to this group. My explicit purpose in my study of "Lost Civilizations" and the April 12, 1909 Arizona Gazette article "Explorations in the Grand Canyon", is to find PAPER evidence of the story and try to understand the 1909 "expedition" if real. I do not intend to enter the cave (if PAPER evidence is ever found) or ANY cave on either the Navajo Reservation, Grand Canyon National Park, or anywhere else. I explicitly warn against anyone else entering the areas just described. I also explicitly DO NOT condone, suggest or even hint that anyone, anywhere, including the Grand Canyon or Navajo Reservation, disturb ANY artifacts) or enter any caves. My investigations are about learning what evidence has been written or spoken on this story. I am disabled and do not hike. I will not, and cannot hike to the cave site (if real) inside the Grand Canyon. - Jack Andrews November 5, 2001.
(vrartist-@gci-net.com)
 

What are the off limits and restricted areas in the Grand Canyon? Read the National Park Rules for the FACTS, not RUMORS What are the off limits and restricted areas in the Grand Canyon? Read the National Park Rules for the FACTS, not RUMORS
The Original April 5, 1909 Arizona Gazette article:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

EXPLORATIONS IN GRAND CANYON


Mysteries of Immense Rich Cavern Being Brought to Light


JORDAN IS ENTHUSED

Remarkable finds indicate ancient people migrated from Orient



The latest news of the progress of the explorations of what is now
regarded by scientists as not only the oldest archaeological
discovery in the United States, but one of the most valuable in the
world, which was mentioned some time ago in the Gazette, was brought to the city yesterday by G. E. Kinkaid, the explorer who found the great underground citadel of the Grand Canyon during a trip from Green River, Wyoming, down the Colorado, in a wooden boat, to Yuma, several months ago.







According to the story related to the Gazette by Mr. Kinkaid, the
archaeologists of the Smithsonian Institute, which is financing the
expeditions, have made discoveries which almost conclusively prove
that the race which inhabited this mysterious cavern, hewn in solid
rock by human hands, was of oriental origin, possibly from Egypt,
tracing back to Ramses. If their theories are borne out by the
translation of the tablets engraved with hieroglyphics, the mystery
of the prehistoric peoples of North America, their ancient arts, who
they were and whence they came, will be solved. Egypt and the Nile,
and Arizona and the Colorado will be linked by a historical chain
running back to ages which staggers the wildest fancy of the
fictionist.

A Thorough Examination

Under the direction of Prof. S. A. Jordan, the Smithsonian Institute
is now prosecuting the most thorough explorations, which will be
continued until the last link in the chain is forged. Nearly a mile
long tunnel underground, about 1480 feet below the surface, the
long main passage has been delved into, to find another mammoth
chamber from which radiates scores of passageways, like the spokes
of a wheel.






Several hundred rooms have been discovered, reached by
passageways running from the main passage, one of them
having been explored for 854 feet and another 634 feet.
The recent finds include articles which have never been
known as native to this country, and doubtless
they had their origin in the orient. War weapons, copper
instruments, sharp-edged and hard as steel, indicate the high state
of civilization reached by these strange people. So interested have
the scientists become that preparations are being made to equip the
camp for extensive studies, and the force will be increased to
thirty or forty persons.

"Before going further into the cavern, better facilities for
lighting will have to be installed, for the darkness is dense and
quite impenetrable for the average flashlight.

In order to avoid being lost, wires are being strung from the
entrance to all passageways leading directly to large chambers.
How far this cavern extends no one can guess, but it is now the
belief of many that what has already been explored is merely the
"barracks", to use an American term, for the soldiers, and that
far into the under-world will be found the main communal dwellings
of the families.

The perfect ventilation of the cavern, the steady draught that
blows through, indicates that it has another outlet to the surface.

Mr. Kinkaid's Report

Mr. Kinkaid was the first white child born in Idaho and has been an
explorer and hunter all his life, thirty years having been in the
service of the Smithsonian Institute. Even briefly recounted, his
history sounds fabulous, almost grotesque.


First, I would impress that the cavern is nearly inaccessible. The
entrance is 1,486 feet down the sheer canyon wall. It is located on
government land and no visitor will be allowed there under penalty
of trespass. The scientists wish to work unmolested, without fear
of archaeological discoveries being disturbed by curio or relic
hunters.






A trip there would be fruitless, and the visitor would be sent on
his way. The story of how I found the cavern has been related, but
in a paragraph: I was journeying down the Colorado river in a boat,
alone, looking for mineral.

 

3D computer rendering by Jack Andrews © 2001 contact Jack here EMAIL Jack for permission to use this graphic or contact him for 3D illustration work for your project.

Some forty-two miles up the river from
the El Tovar Crystal canyon, I saw on the east wall, stains in the
sedimentary formation about 2,000 feet above the river bed. There
was no trail to this point, but I finally reached it with great
difficulty.


Above a shelf which hid it from view from the river, was the mouth
of the cave. There are steps leading from this entrance some thirty
yards to what was, at the time the cavern was inhabited, the level
of the river. When I saw the chisel marks on the wall inside the
entrance, I became interested, securing my gun and went in. During
that trip I went back several hundred feet along the main passage
till I came to the crypt in which I discovered the mummies. One of
these I stood up and photographed by flashlight. I gathered a
number of relics, which I carried down the Colorado to Yuma, from
whence I shipped them to Washington with details of the discovery.
Following this, the explorations were undertaken.

The Passages

The main passageway is about 12 feet wide, narrowing to nine feet
toward the farther end. About 57 feet from the entrance, the first
side-passages branch off to the right and left, along which, on both
sides, are a number of rooms about the size of ordinary living rooms
of today, though some are 30 by 40 feet square. These are entered
by oval-shaped doors and are ventilated by round air spaces through
the walls into the passages. The walls are about three feet six
inches in thickness.


The passages are chiseled or hewn as straight as could be laid out
by an engineer. The ceilings of many of the rooms converge to a
center. The side-passages near the entrance run at a sharp angle
from the main hall, but toward the rear they gradually reach a right
angle in direction.


continued next column right...
 The Shrine

Over a hundred feet from the entrance is the cross-hall, several
hundred feet long, in which are found the idol, or image, of the
people's god, sitting cross-legged, with a lotus flower or lily in
each hand. The cast of the face is oriental, and the carving this
cavern. The idol almost resembles Buddha, though the scientists are
not certain as to what religious worship it represents. Taking into
consideration everything found thus far, it is possible that this
worship most resembles the ancient people of Tibet.




3D computer rendering by Jack Andrews © 2001 contact Jack here EMAIL Jack for permission to use this graphic or contact him for 3D illustration work for your project.

Surrounding this idol are smaller images, some very beautiful in
form - others crooked-necked and distorted shapes, symbolical,
probably, of good and evil. There are two large cactus with
protruding arms, one on each side of the dais on which the go-
squats. All this is carved out of hard rock resembling marble. In
the opposite corner of this cross-hall were found tools of all
descriptions, made of copper. These people undoubtedly knew the
lost art of hardening this metal, which has been sought by chemists
for centuries without result. On a bench running around the
workroom was some charcoal and other material probably used in the
process. There is also slag and stuff similar to matte, showing
that these ancients smelted ores, but so far no trace of where or
how this was done has been discovered, nor the origin of the ore.
Among the other finds are vases or urns and cups of copper and
gold, made very artistic in design. The pottery work includes
enameled ware and glazed vessels. Another passageway leads to
granaries such as are found in the oriental temples. They contain
seeds of various kinds. One very large storehouse has not yet been
entered, as it is twelve feet high and can be reached only from
above. Two copper hooks extend on the edge, which indicates that
some sort of ladder was attached. These granaries are rounded, as
the materials of which they are constructed, I think, is a very hard
cement. A gray metal is also found in this cavern, which puzzles
the scientists, for its identity has not been established. It
resembles platinum. Strewn promiscuously over the floor everywhere
are what people call - cats eyes', a yellow stone of no great value.
Each one is engraved with the head of the Malay type.

The Hieroglyphics

On all the urns, or walls over doorways, and tablets of stone which
were found by the image are the mysterious hieroglyphics t the
key to which the Smithsonian Institute hopes yet to discover. These
writings resemble those on the rocks about this valley. The engraving
on the tables probably has something to do with the religion of the
people. Similar hieroglyphics have been found in the peninsula of
Yucatan, but these are not the same as those found in the Orient Some
believe these cave dwellers built the old canals in the Salt River Valley.





Among the pictorial writings, only two animals are found. One is of
prehistoric type.


The Crypt

The tomb or crypt in which the mummies were found is one of the
largest of the chambers, the walls slanting back at an angle of
about 35 degrees. On these are tiers of mummies, each one occupying
a separate hewn shelf. At the head of each is a small bench, on
which is found copper cups and pieces of broken swords. Some of the
mummies are covered with clay, and all are wrapped in a dark fabric.
The urns or cups on the lower tiers are crude, while as the higher
shelves are reached, the urns are finer in design, showing a later
stage of civilization. It is worthy of note that all the mummies
examined so far have proved to be male, no children or females being buried here.




3D computer rendering by Jack Andrews © 2001 contact Jack here EMAIL Jack for permission to use this graphic or contact him for 3D illustration work for your project.

This leads to the belief that this exterior section
was the warrior' barracks.

Among the discoveries no bones of animals have been found, no
skins, no clothing, no bedding. Many of the rooms are bare but for
water vessels. One room, about 40 by 700 feet, was probably the
main dining hall, for cooking utensils are found here. What these
people lived on is a problem, though it is presumed that they came
south in the winter and farmed in the valleys, going back north in
the summer.


Upwards of 50,000 people could have lived in the caverns
comfortably. One theory is that the present Indian tribes found in
Arizona are descendants of the serfs or slaves of the people which
inhabited the cave. Undoubtedly a good many thousands of years
before the Christian era, a people lived here which reached a high
stage of civilization. The chronology of human history is full of
gaps. Professor Jordan is much enthused over the discoveries and
believes that the find will prove of incalculable value in
archaeological work.


One thing I have not spoken of, may be of interest. There is one
chamber of the passageway to which is not ventilated, and when we
approached it a deadly, snaky smell struck us. Our light would not
penetrate the gloom, and until stronger ones are available we will
not know what the chamber contains. Some say snakes, but other
boo-hoo this idea and think it may contain a deadly gas or chemicals
used by the ancients. No sounds are heard, but it smells snaky just
the same. The whole underground installation gives one of shaky
nerves the creeps. The gloom is like a weight on one's shoulders,
and our flashlights and candles only make the darkness blacker.
Imagination can revel in conjectures and ungodly daydreams back
through the ages that have elapsed till the mind reels dizzily in
space.

An Indian Legend

In connection with this story, it is notable that among the Hopi
Indians the tradition is told that their ancestors once lived in an
underworld in the Grand Canyon till dissension arose between the
good and the bad, the people of one heart and the people of two
hearts. Machetto, who was their chief, counseled them to leave the
underworld, but there was no way out. The chief then caused a tree
to grow up and pierce the roof of the underworld, and then the
people of one heart climbed out. They tarried by Paisisvai (Red
River), which is the Colorado, and grew grain and corn.


They sent out a message to the Temple of the Sun, asking the
blessing of peace, good will and rain for people of one heart. That
messenger never returned, but today at the Hopi villages at sundown
can be seen the old men of the tribe out on the housetops gazing
toward the sun, looking for the messenger. When he returns, their
lands and ancient dwelling place will be restored to them. That is
the tradition.


Among the engravings of animals in the cave is seen the image of a
heart over the spot where it is located. The legend was learned by
W.E. Rollins, the artist, during a year spent with the Hopi Indians.
There are two theories of the origin of the Egyptians. One is that
they came from Asia another that the racial cradle was in the upper
Nile region. Heeren, an Egyptologist, believed in the Indian origin
of the Egyptians. The discoveries in the Grand Canyon may throw
further light on human evolution and prehistoric ages.
 


WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING

I am strongly against ANY attempt to get to the cave, from the rim, or below, since such attempts would be EXTREMELY dangerous. I do not recommend or condone or even suggest any such attempt by writing this article or by ANY information posted on this entire web site. All approaches to the "cave" area are very dangerous and again, I do not condone, support or suggest that anyone make any such attempt to get to this cave, by writing this article, and explicitly advise against any such attempts. Also it is illegal to enter most caves in the Grand Canyon, unless it is properly sanctioned by Grand Canyon National Park. I do not support condone or suggest ANY entry of ANY cave in the Grand Canyon or on the Navajo Reservation. Also, I explicitly do not suggest, imply or condone in any way, either through this web site or in any other manner, the disturbing of historical or prehistorical artifacts or any items that fall under the current antiquities act or acts enacted by the United States government and it's laws. In other words, leave ALL historical and prehistorical items as they are, IN PLACE. Please respect the sensitivity of the area and if you travel there, tread lightly and obtain the proper permits. The Grand Canyon is a sacred place, please treat it as such. - Jack Andrews June 27, 2001

Hello Mike,

Sorry I have not been back to you, however, have been keeping up to date with reading your posted theories.

Like to share with you an interesting site that from time to time come up with some interesting phillospies.

http://www.citiesoflight.net

I hope to catch up soon with some more theory soon, until then..

Helen

Hello Mike,

Sorry I have not been back to you, however, have been keeping up to date with reading your posted theories.

Like to share with you an interesting site that from time to time come up with some interesting phillospies.

http://www.citiesoflight.net

I hope to catch up soon with some more theory, until then..

Helen

hi helen!, i was begining to wonder if i killed the string?
i glanced at that site. it seemed kinda (buzz) word oriented.
but i will giv it a good look!
hell, sometimes i wonder why i dont slap together a pile of crap with the words "consciousness and ascention" and make a few bucks!but that's because it's exactly what the "new" age is about! its just like an upgrade to the "program".the bottom line is this: seek all knowledge you can! love=light=knowledge(sorry about the ranting, i'm buzzed,its late, im listening to coast, got dat down wit the man vibe goin on!)
so what did you think of the story of the cave?

to mike and helen ,
i have a theorie about the lost city of atlantis,
atlantis was a great city,but an island in circled by walls
when the city was presumily destroyed,all that was destroyed
was the outer walls and what i call the leader root which
keeps the island from floating around the ocean,but when the
islands walls broak free they destroyed the leader root and
the island floated around till it floated into the burmuda
triangle causeing the magnetic forces to increase by ten
thousand times normal.

if this is the case then the island of atlantis is the cause
of all the planes and ships disapearing,or they might be on
the other side of the magnetic fields.


                 this theorie was thoght up by me
                 and and i am not a scientist just
                 a young man who is currious about
                 both atlantis and the burmuda triangle.
                  
                   lyle jackson.
............................................................

to mike and helen ,
i have a theorie about the lost city of atlantis,
atlantis was a great city,but an island in circled by walls
when the city was presumily destroyed,all that was destroyed
was the outer walls and what i call the leader root which
keeps the island from floating around the ocean,but when the
islands walls broak free they destroyed the leader root and
the island floated around till it floated into the burmuda
triangle causeing the magnetic forces to increase by ten
thousand times normal.

if this is the case then the island of atlantis is the cause
of all the planes and ships disapearing,or they might be on
the other side of the magnetic fields.
contact me at my e-mail address lylej1964@aol.com

                 this theorie was thoght up by me
                 and and i am not a scientist just
                 a young man who is currious about
                 both atlantis and the burmuda triangle.
                  
                   lyle jackson.
............................................................

LYLE,
good theory. i've seen geological studies that claim a large
column of atlantic crust dropped vertically straight down. this may or may not tye in to yer theory. just thought i'd tell ya. as far as the triangle goes, that has been a thought by many people through out recent history. cayce,blavetsky etc... my studies have led me to believe that all the pyramids were power cells,utilizing free nrg.
and the magnetic anomolies are attributed to the intermitant "fireing" of the crystal in the pyramid under the sea floor. since it would most certainly have to be multi-dimensional technology to get the "free" nrg, time/space anomolies are a common sense derivative.hehe, if the GREAT pyramid is 400 ft tall, what would we call a 5000 ft one?

Hello Mike,

Sorry I have not been back to you. I have been reading through all your updates and keeping up with all that you are doing on your site here.

Just thought I would post your something on here for others to read and wonder about, refering to another source of understanding more about the elusive Atlantis, from a different angle.

Please visit this site for more information and verification what I am on about:

http://www.dprins.demon.nl.convergence/9902.html

Helen

Opps....Url error....Lets try again...sorry..grin

http://www.dprins.demon.nl/convergence/9902.html

Ola Mike!

I removed your defunct AOL account from my list. Would like to sub to it with your new one? I will be advertising Team Atlantis very shortly since you dove on the Long Rocks and your site is the only one I know of with photos of it.

HALLS OF ATLANTIS

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Halls-of-Atlantis/

Best Regards,
Paul Bader

what is agoing on yo

Hi Mike,

I can thoroughly recommend Pauls, Halls-of-Atlantis well worth the subscription.

Helen

I was wondering if the Team made any discoveries during their expedition into looking for archaeological sites in the Gulf of Mexico. All I seem to be able to find on the xpedition on the web site is photos of the divers.

Hi Trevar:

The Gulf of Mexico project with Florida State University was a productive one. A number of archaeological sites were found and the data collected at one of them was the basis for my Master's thesis. I have pasted a few snippets below from my thesis about the kinds of artifacts found at one particular site in the Gulf. I hope this helps.

Best,
Mike

Pages 25-29

 The J&J Hunt Site has been the focus of the PaleoAucilla Prehistory Project (PAPP) since its inception. PAPP is an ongoing research effort started in 1997 under the direction of Dr. Michael K. Faught of Florida State University’s Program in Underwater Archaeology (PUA) (Faught, 1999). It has been the goal of PAPP to search for and examine prehistoric archaeological sites on the continental shelf of Northwestern Florida. Many sites have been found along and between the courses of drowned river channel segments between 3 and 9 nautical miles offshore.  PAPP efforts have resulted in the discovery and sampling of more than 30 archaeological sites of Late Paleoindian, Early Archaic, and Middle Archaic time periods. Some of these sites are non-diagnostic lithic quarries without clear ties to culture complexes. 
 One productive site examined as part of the PAPP has been J&J Hunt. The J&J Hunt Site is roughly 3.5 miles offshore in 4.5 meters of sea water. The site is approximately 10,000 square-meters in size. J&J Hunt has produced evidence to suggest two temporally distinct occupations during two very different paleolandscapes. Bolen and Early Archaic artifacts suggest an upland occupation about 10,000 rcybp (Faught, 1996a). At this time, the coast would have been about 139 km (86 statue miles) farther seaward. J&J Hunt was likely on a segment of a discontinuous river -- the PaleoAucilla (Faught, 2001a).
 Sediment samples from J&J Hunt have produced terrestrial sediments relating to the Late Paleoindian-Early Archaic period (Faught, 2000). Within the 99-1 test pit unit, a fragmentary cranium and dentition of a juvenile mastodon was found atop a sedimentological layer consisting of dolomitized silty clay. A hard, gray matrix, humate staining and pedogenesis was also observed here, suggesting subaerial exposure. This sediment bed was covered by 60 cm of marine sediment. Within the contact zone of the marine and dolomitized silty clay sediments, charcoal, bone, and early Archaic artifacts were found in abundance. Elsewhere, in-place tree stumps and freshwater sediments have been located (Faught, 2001c). People of the earliest occupation inhabited the site around 10,000 rcybp, utilizing a river margin environment well-inland from the coast (Faught, 1996a).
 A second occupation took place at J&J Hunt about 7,000 rcybp, during the last stages of the transgression process. Transgression was probably low impact due to the gentle slope of the continental shelf, as well as the moderate hydraulical conditions of the Gulf. Sea levels had already risen considerably, but were still lower than today (Frazier, 1974; Faught, 1999; 2000). Evidence for this occupation is based on diagnostic artifacts and radiocarbon data from diagnostic sediments (Faught, 2000).

Page 82

 “Early” diagnostic artifacts are red in color and represent those artifacts manufactured during the earliest stage of occupation at J&J Hunt. This period is the Late Paleoindian/Early Archaic, about 10,000 rcybp. Diagnostic artifacts from this period include Bolen points (some beveled), an adze bit, various unifacial tools and scrapers, a Hendrix Scraper, an Edgefield Scraper, and a Suwannee base and preform. Diagnostic artifacts from the earliest period of occupation at J&J Hunt number at fourteen.
 “Middle” diagnostic artifacts are cyan in color and represent those artifacts manufactured during the second stage of occupation at J&J Hunt, about 7,000 rcybp. This period is known as the Middle Archaic. Diagnostic artifacts from the Middle Archaic are all Archaic Stemmed Points. They total six in number -- five points and one point base.
 “Indeterminates” are those artifacts that cannot be definitively identified as either Early or Middle. They are represented in Figure 4.33 as blue points. These artifacts include tools, scraper/choppers, and cores. There were five artifacts deemed Indeterminate.

Hello Mike,

Enclosing a couple of sites for you to check out..

http://www.ngde.noaa.gov/mgg/image/reliefslides.pdf

http://www.greatdreams.com/bermuda.htm

Found them both rather interesting...

Helen

Always making mistakes in my urls...sorry...grin - here are some additional sites:-

* http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/reliefslides.pdf

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/2minrelief.html

http://www.huttoncommentaries.com/Other/At...nce_of_atlantis.htm

http://www.atlantisquest.com

Hope I got them right this time - and that some of this information may help you and your group somewhat.

Helen

HAS ANYONE NOTICED THAT CAT ISLAND LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE THE RELIEF ON THE SHORES IN FLORIDA. THE RELIEF WHICH PEOPLE SAY LOOK LIKE A SHARK. THE PICTURE OF CATISLAND SHOULD BE NAMED SHARKISLAND. JUST AN OBSERVATION. MAYBE THE PEOPLE OF CAT ISLAND WERE RESUED BY AIR SAW WHERE THEY WERE FROM AND WANTED TO SHOW WHERE THEY HAD BEEN. INVESTIGATE THE RELIEF, MAYBE MORE CLUES TO WHAT IS AT CAT ISLAND.

Is anyone looking for submerged costal settlements at the ocean depth of 340' (this would have been dry land at the end of the last ice age)?

has anyone thought to look in antarctica? it has been theorized that there was an instant freeze in that region many years ago and that it seemed to be tropical at one point before a quick continental shift. maby wrong, but it does seem logical.

this is strange randomstranger!I wanted to post what u have posted as the last message.There are speculations about antartica but perhaps nothing serious is being done.

Maybe We already found atlantis. Think about it. All these findings are just clues. Maybe Atlantis is somewhere really close. Lately, I have been looking into these Areas that are atlanis sites and they create a vivd area of search. Connect the dots to the south american coasts, japan, and greenland and maybe atlantis is located in this "triangle." Could anyone back me up on this? I know it's a wide area but it does narrow it down.

Hi there,

I believe that I have found it. Sounds crazy I know. If there was a way for me to post jpegs here I would show you what I've got. In my opinion and almost everyone I've shown so far it is definately there and would have to be related to if not the actual Atlantis. Does anyone have another idea for displaying jpegs?

Charles De Vaul

Feel free to email me your pics ...

Thank you Matt. I did email the images. I forgot to mention that they are shaded relief renderings of bathymetric data. Am I mistaken or do those objects appear manmade to you as well?

Thanks again,

Charles De Vaul

Matt,

have you had an opportunity to examine the images I sent you?

Charles

They never made it... can you pls resend to webmaster@teamatlantis.com ?
best,

matt

< replied-to message removed by QT >

Ok I've sent them again. I sent them to matt@teamatlantis.com before. This time I've sent them to the address you specified. I also didn't send as many this time although the other email did not bounce back so it is probably still there. I'm dying to hear your opinion of these. If you want to post them on your site for discussion I have permission to put them on any website so long as the nasa copywrite messege is intact.

Thanks again Matt,

Charles De Vaul

Could you email those pics to me at antipopchrist@yahoo.com. I'd like to study them. They sound worthwhile.

Edited by author 03-17-2004 07:54 PM
At the moment I believe the object that caused Carolina Bays
and landed in 2 different locations in the Atlantic impacted and released large deposits of methane beneath the continent causing it to sink. The reason I've come to this conclusion is the stories of the native people in Central America and North America of a fiery snake that came from the northwest destroying everything in it's path and sinking the home of the Sea People. They say the sky burned for days afterwords with many colors. That and the theories of the Bermuda Triangle concerning methane bubbling up causing the vehicles to sink. There are also stories of how the Atlantians overmined their homeland which might also have caused the Continent to sink. The pit mines in the upper pennisula also work into this theory nicely as they are 10,000+ years old and dug up to 60 ft deep through solid rock in some places. I don't believe that Native Americans the way we understand them would have done this. They were mostly interested in float copper.

Charles De Vaul

<p>http://bossprym.deepfree.com </p>
<p>http://bossprym.interhousing.com
</p>

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