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Topic: Radical "Green" Space Discussion
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granter  66
08-28-2008 11:30 PM ET (US)
don't get too excited, you won't really make a difference. i know this is not what you want to hear but democrat or republican.... it's all in vain, at the national level everyone is already beyond help, you won't make a difference so mellow out and seek the truth beyond the bullshit.
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Me  65
08-27-2008 11:11 PM ET (US)
Hi me again sorry for this intrusion, I would like to just bring one thing up. You protest the war, cool you have the right to do so. It's paid for in blood not by college professors or campus radicals, but by Soldiers, Sailors, Airman and Marines. You say you protest for the troops..........
 Out of love for the troops, so you get out there and let our enemies know that you, the American people are beat. All they have to do is hang on and kill a few more American servicemen and women and the protesters will handle the propaganda for them.... I bet you protest the "torture of terrorist at Gitmo, because the MI people play head games with terrorists and make them uncomfortable. Why don't you protest the torture mutilation and decapitation of every single American captured in this war? I think becuase you wouldn't be "cool" then. Why don't you ever protest the enemy. Get a visa go to Iraq or Iran and tell them to embrace democracy and stop murdering civilians. The President of Iran claimed at Columbia University that his country has no homosexuals in it. He is probably right to. they have stoned all of them to death or taken them out for a lead q-tip. Why don't you protest them? Why don't you protest chinas abuse of the enviornment? Or any other countries abuse but ours. I believe you protest America because you hate it. You hate the freedom that everyone has. You hate that everyone is responsible for themselves. You hate your parents ideals, you hate those that defend this great nation. When America is destroyed you will mistakenly smile. For Americas enemies will come for you next. Check it out, I may be wrong on all this I don't know you. Don't be one of lenins 'Usefull Idiots'



Carry on with todays wierdness
jessica  64
08-27-2008 04:56 AM ET (US)
hi rooster77,
this is why i'm not protesting the dnc - while i don't agree with everything about the democratic party, or even the two party system, my strongest disagreements are with the agenda of the republican party. in my opinion, while there is more to do than simply vote, and i don't think obama, or any one politician, can bring all the changes this planet is crying out for, the only realistic way to nationally take a step in a different direction than the republican agenda is to elect a democrat. i like obama better than most politicians out there, but that doesn't mean i see him as a flawless savior.
i believe that the democrats, and the republicans, have as much right to have their meetings and parties as we have to protest them. but as i intensely disagree with nearly everything about the republican agenda, i am choosing to protest what i see as a huge part of the problem, not the dnc, which i see as a step toward a solution.

about george soros, yes, the guy has an insane amount of money! seeing the democrats as a partial step toward a solution doesn't mean i love every democrat or everything about the party. and this isn't about one person, or money itself, it's about the future of this country and the world.
Hell Toupe  63
08-26-2008 06:12 PM ET (US)
Can anyone tell me the exact locations of the protest zones in Minneapolis? I have looked everywhere for this information, and nobody seems to have it.
Rooster77  62
08-25-2008 11:09 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-25-2008 11:11 AM
So Jessica why are you not protesting the DNCC? you now the Biggest power elite of them all is George Soros.
One with no views  61
08-24-2008 03:01 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-24-2008 06:55 PM
Out of curiosity, with what you have planned and faked "the delegate video" what will you do when someone is killed because they push the line just allittle bit too far. I think you have underestimated the security of this event and just how much will be allowed in the Rules Of Force. I wish all the best to the protestors, Hopefully they don't push the line too far and get killed from their actions.
jessica  60
08-24-2008 01:55 PM ET (US)

---
hi merle. i much appreciate that although you mostly disagree with me, you keep your writing relatively grounded and respectful. i'm glad you're writing, as, yes, i am interested in seeing the other side and having dialogues about differences of opinion. i think that most of us want similar things, and want to live in a world that is safe, secure, and where people care for each other. we just have different ways of defining what that looks like, and different meanings of the word security. for me, safe air, water and food are more important than money. but as money is one of the paths to safe food and water, i don't ignore it's importance either.

i have much respect for the brave men and women who risk their lives in the military service. i understand you have had different experiences than i have, and have sacrificed a great deal in the service. war protests are not against the troops, in fact many who protest do so out of love for family and friends who are in the military, and many who do not have direct connections with those in the wars still have deep respect for the troops and are angry that so many lives, and resources, are being spent on a war that is resulting in massive destruction, including exposing the troops and contractors to unsafe conditions, unsafe water, not to mention depleted uranium and white phosphorus. it is not the troops we protest, it is those who put them in harm's way. and it is not all wars that most of us protest, it is the wars happening now. i can only say definitively that i *wish* all wars were unnecessary, i cannot say that i believe all wars are unnecessary. you're right, there are very complex issues involved. but if the iraq war was so necessary, why did the administration have to lie repeatedly in order for the war to happen? i think that sadaam hussein was a sick barbarian, and have no sympathy for him. yet i do not believe that those who lied to invade iraq felt emotion about the plight of the iraqi citizens under hussein's unjust rule. between oil, proceeds for weapons manufacturers and "independent contractors", and power, as described in the project for a new american century, written by some of the war's architects and outlining a plan for remaking the world in american interests, i doubt that cheney, rumsfeld, etc., had ethical interests at heart. heart? anyway....

the military industrial complex is a huge money spending and making machine, which i feel disrespects the lives of people like yourself who risk everything for a country which is more out to generate profits for a select few than care for people.
 
i agree with you where you say you cannot stand hatred out of ignorance. i understand your frustration with those who latch onto a belief because it has a sense of being "cool" or because of something they just heard and haven't found out was true. i notice also that some people, with opinions varying from anarchist to republican and in between, jump on an ideology out of a sense of wanting to fit in with something. i do see folks getting involved with social change movements who are protesting one ideology yet quick to grab onto another as a solution, without seeming to have thought it through. but, then again, i am not in their heads, and don't know exactly what they are thinking. but the fact that activists are ourselves imperfect humans does not negate the tragic truths of what we are attempting to shed light on. yes, it's "cool" to hate bush and co. now. but many people hate them for what they have done, even if they express that hate in a trendy way. not to say there aren't any who are wearing anti-bush buttons or t-shirts as a way of fitting in rather than an understanding of the issues. of course there are. but i believe there are many more who are angry out of a sense of understanding of what is going on.

when i see people defending a ridiculously corrupt administration, or saying that we should support what our president does simply because he's our president (not saying that's what you're saying but i've heard that before), i wonder what sort of group-mind, not wanting to think critically perspective are they coming from.

you mention that you're a news junkie. while i believe mainstream news sources sometimes give facts, useful information, and insightful opinion pieces, sometimes, there is also the issue of who owns the news? what is being covered and what is not?
i'd like to share some links to info that i consider credible, insightful, and very interesting. the first three are from the same journalist, who is at the forefront of independent media. credible, respectful, well sourced independent media.
((i made most of them not the full link, the ones that are easy to get to by retyping. i wasnt able to post this last nite or today, maybe the links had something to do w that?)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opin...undaygoodman03.html - explains who owns the media outlets, and why certain news doesn't get through ...

democracynow (dot)org/ - one of the most respected independent news sources in the world.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200808...ey_bush_and_habbush - recent interesting news about more dishonesty in the lead up to the iraq invasion.

wanttoknow(dot)info
quote from their description -
"The WantToKnow.info team is composed of researchers and concerned citizens from around the globe dedicated to empowering transformation of our lives and world. Some of these team members have written key books which are summarized on this website. Others have sent valuable information revealing major cover-ups. All are courageous citizens who venture where many dare not go. We share a deep commitment to inspiring us all to work together to strengthen democracy, and to build a brighter future for us and for our world."

halliburtonwatch(dot)org - info on the profitability and cost of war, and also exposes when companies put their own employees, and troops, in harms way. "In Iraq for Sale, Robert Greenwald's new film, a widow of one of the dead drivers in another convoy massacre in 2004 complained that KBR drivers are not given road maps. Another widow said, "These men went to do the right thing [and] they were totally taken advantage of ... [Halliburton] knew, they knew, that there was more than a good chance that they would be killed." And one of the drivers who survived said, "It's about contracts ... fulfilling the contract and replacing us if we died." "

quote from the project for a new american century, which used to be available for viewing online. however the site is now not accessible.

"And advanced forms of biological warfare that can 'target' specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool."
PNAC, Rebuilding America's Defenses, p. 60 (authors include donald rumsfeld, paul wolfowits, i. lewis libby )
==========

feel free to share any info you think i would find interesting.

also, rooster77, to answer your question - yes i am going to protest the rnc. i think that the republicans have a right to have a convention, and i'm not interested in "shutting it down". but i don't think they have a right to do many of the things they have done, and i wish to express my support for groups like veterans for peace, the network for spiritual progressives, the peace island solutions driven conference, and others who are working to build a better world and come to where the power elite are making their plans to show the world that they do not speak for all of us.
jessica  59
08-24-2008 01:52 PM ET (US)
testing ... w a shorter message without any links ... tried posting before and didnt go thru ...
hans  58
08-24-2008 11:18 AM ET (US)
are there any hot chicks gunna be at the protest?
malachi bean  57
08-23-2008 10:16 AM ET (US)
hey merle,
my former best friend is an iraqi vet. With in days of his return after heavy drinking he decided to tell me a story about iraq. It involved raids women and little girls. This war is bull shit, and any dumbass who thinks otherwise because the "MEDIA" told them so is an idiot as well. I believe it was the "MEDIA" that also said twelve coal miners we're found alive in virginia. Boy did they get that one wrong. PS. Tell Bill O'riely i said what's up facist
Kenneth  56
08-23-2008 09:33 AM ET (US)
Alkaline's message of 08-20-08 is right on! You are a bunch of spoiled brats, America Haters, and some Communists.............I dare you to goto North Korea or Iran or Russia and try this you wimpy cowards. It would be your last protest ever, believe me. Better yet, just leave America!
Rooster77  55
08-22-2008 10:28 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-22-2008 10:31 AM
Jess will you protest the RNCC?
HERE HERE Merle, well said, over.
Merle  54
08-21-2008 08:15 PM ET (US)
Thanks for answering, Jessica. I agree with not liking rampant materialism, although I love my comfort. I also do what I can to minimalize my "mark", but it's mostly because I save money (my security) by doing so. You and I are very different. By the way, I am a female.

I'm very against war protests, as I served in the service of this great country. War is not as "unnecessary" as many ignorant people believe. It takes a deep knowledge of complex world affairs to understand everything there is to know about a war.

You seem pretty reasonable, so I'll ask if you've ever been open to seeing the other side and hearing other stories besides the ones about what "crooks" this administration is. I don't agree with everything they've done, but they have done a lot of good, and I don't, for a minute, believe they are out just to hurt people.

I've had friends that were only listening to the rantings of other friends, and believed everything they heard secondhand. They never once bothered to find out the truthfulness of the rantings. I've pointed facts out to them that they acknowledged they did not know.

I cannot stand hatred out of ignorance. I also cannot stand hatred when it is thought to be "cool" to fit in with a certain belief. It seems extremely, cultishly popular to hate this administration, and it bothers the hell out of me.

I am a news junkie, and consider myself very well informed, so I'm not just talking out of my rear end.

Thanks, Jessica.
jessica  53
08-21-2008 06:39 PM ET (US)
there's a difference between simplicity and tremendous excess . . .and no,im not going to protest the dnc.
Rooster77  52
08-21-2008 01:58 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-21-2008 02:02 PM
Are you going to protest against the DNCC?
What about AL Gore or John Edwards?
I mean I see your need for simplicity, but not everyone
wants to live like you.
jessica  51
08-20-2008 07:35 PM ET (US)
me, i was talking more of the evils of unchecked greed, materialism and destruction than i was of capitalism, and i tried to make that distinction very clear. did i say anywhere that i thought communism was the solution? i dont latch on to any "ism". i find it sad that there are so many judgments and assumptions here. (alkaline and nearly every other person who has posted).
thing is the growing numbers of people in various social /environmental change movements cannot all be pigeonholed into a category. and to consider all of us and all our ideas "brainwashed" is, well, brainwashed. unless one believes that the efforts of poorly done parodies like ortizaxalotl are a way to classify all activists, then i cant blame you for being insulting!
  
me, you say you think we should be better stewards of our planet? then we have something in common. there are many ways to make a difference. financial clout and capitalism among them ( http://www.coopamerica.org/ ). perhaps if we could have more respect for folks who are working to make a difference, we could actually get somewhere. . .
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