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ditto, ditto Runner45.

My daughter is only 9 and had a similar experience last year. I am just now reading Friendships of Women and it is helping me. Just yesterday I was thinking about finding time to talk to my daughter about what exactly happened last year. I don't agree with how EVERTHING was handled last year. Primarily, the other mother just wanted to sweep it all under the carpet and forbid them to see each other except for at church and school.(Tthey grew up together at church since bed babies)

The problem was really never addressed as the other girl wanted to be able to have other friends, but only wanted my daughter to have her. She even got upset when my daughter invited other friends over to our house. She was very possessive and caused a big scene at my daughter's 9th birtday party because someone else sat next to my daughter while they were eating pizza.

My daughter's personality is clueless to most of all that happened. Thankfully, she is a free spirit. However, something really horrible happened one day at school where my daugther was lured into a situation and than purposely excluded by the other girl.

I started working through a book with my daughter on Friendships that I bought at the Chrisitan Bookstore, but it did not hold her interest. Now that I am reading Friendships of Women, I have some ideas.

One I want to try to teach my daughter healthy boundaries. Two, I want to make sure my daughter knows that what happened to their friendship was not all her fault. I fear my daughter may think it was her fault by the way things were handled.

Praying with you. We girls/women are complicated, but if we do finally get it right, our friendships are cherished treasures.

runner45
I so appreciate your honesty, your love for your daughter, your own insight.
It sounds like your daughter does have a very special friend and I can understand your protective instinct. Having insight into the way we are the way we are, wanting exclusivity, is helpful. Has your daughter and her friend read The Friendships of Women?

It would be beautiful if there could be grace and they could all love each other well, but I know that even older women can struggle with that. I do think overcoming evil with good is often effective -- if your daughter can show the threatened girl love and kindness. These kind of relationship struggles do provide teaching opportunities for talking about our love relationship with the Lord and holding one another "loosely."

I pray for you for wisdom, for your daughter and her friend for love and grace toward the third girl, and for each other. Praying for you too!
Dee

i have been rereading your book in hopes of trying to get a handle on my relationships w/women or lack there of. also to help my daughter not have an exclusive friend. having a teenage daughter has brought to the surface my insecurities and loneliness when it comes to friendships. in school i never really had a good friend and was lonely alot. even the friends i had, really only talked to me when thursday rolled around because i often could drive to games/parties. come on monday, they would hardly look at me. but i still continued to want their friendship. with my daughter, she has a really good friend for 4 yrs now. unfortunately, there is another girl who is jealous of my daughters' relationship and interfers w/the relationship at times. this girl has said mean things to my daughter and has been a thorn in her side. as a mother, i see the hurt this girl has caused and my claws come out. this is embarrassing to admit, but i wish the girl wasn't part of the equation. when we don't have to deal w/this particular girl and her mother, our lives are so peaceful. i don't know if my daughter feels threatened, but i feel threatened for her. how can i stop these feelings of "relationship idolatry?" how can i feel like i want an exclusive friend for my daughter but at the same time know that that is not godly? i have such mixed emotions and i don't want to mess up my daughter. i don't want her to feel lonely or isolated or the odd person out. although maybe i need to work on the same, so i can be helpful to my daughter.

Hi Tennessee Sister!
I hope you do -- there's a sale on my website. (www.deebrestin.com)
Thanks for writing in!
Dee

Hey, How are you? I live in Murfreesboro, Tn. We are staring our women's bible study tonight and I'm going suggest we do this study. I think friendships are very vital to women. Our church was very small when we first started and it's has grown, I'm looking forward to it.

Journeyvision, the website Dee recommended a few posts back: http://harvestusa.org is now up and running. I think it was down the other day when she made the suggestion.

Bless You.

journeyvision, Fellow Soujourner, all Mid-day friends. I have just posted
"Let's Talk About Homosexuality" on my blog post (www.deebrestin.com) and
copied journeyvision's first dear plea for help. I pray this will be a place where we can help each other as we overcome idols of our hearts. You've been wonderful -- now I need you to go there.

I've also asked Lori Neff of Midday about a thread here, but haven't heard back yet.

Hope to see you on my blog!
Dee Brestin

Thank you Cheri for your encouragement and understanding. I'm not sure where I am going to go after this is over. I dont know if they continue this. I wonder if Brestin is going to have something where people can write in and share. Does anyone know of any place? Do you Brestin know of any place? Do people talk about this online? Can I get to talk to someone online?

Journeyvision,

One of my favorite passages in Scripture is Romans 5. Especially verses 6-8.

"You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man some might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

He is not waiting on you to get your act together. He has already paid the price for you. Jesus died on the cross for ALL your sins: past, present and future.

satan would love for us to believe that some sins are too great for God's forgiveness and that we are hopeless.

Continuing to pray for you.

Edited by author 08-27-2009 11:54 PM
Dear Tricia,

I can hear your disappointment. I am sorry you have not had one precious dream realized in your life. I am sure it must be hard to keep dreaming after so many disappointments.

Thank you for expressing how you truly feel. There was a time in my life that I felt I had lost all hope that things would ever get better. I felt so empty and desperate.

I was raised in a Christian Home; however, my parents divorced when I was 8 years old. This came as a big shock to me. While some children seemed to recover quickly after their parent's divorced, I did not.

Finally, 18 years later, I got some help from an outside counselor and experienced healing. I don't know all the answers, but I know that I have experienced the God of All Comfort.

I had to have outside help. I couldn't do it on my own even though I knew many scriptures, taught Sunday School for years and had been in church all my life.

Deep down I felt unworthy & satan was there at every turn with all of his lies. He is a Father of Lies. He doesn't want us to believe that God's promises are true for US. He loves to trick us into believing that God has a plan for everyone else, but us. He wants us to believe that we are too bad. For years, I thought I must not have been good enough to have parents that stayed together. How in the world was that my fault, but at the time I just accepted responsiblity.

Tricia, All I know is that God is real. His word is true and He can handle all of our questions, struggles, anger, disappointment, fear, and hurt.

When I hit ROCK bottom, I realized the ROCK I hit was God.

Also, I realized that even though I felt abandoned for many years....God had always been there. It was amazing that once I allowed myself to grieve over the loss of my family, how aware I became of God's faithfulness and constant care over the years.

Everyone's journey is different and I do not know why you have lived with such disappointment. All I do know is that God loves you. He truly does.

Praying for you.

Cheri,
Is it true that if you blow it with God, does he give you another chance? and how long will he wait for me to get my 'act' together? do certain 'sins' mean that his plan isn't for me?
I like your question Tricia.

Cheri,

This is in response to your response to journeyvision. What if you have have not ever had one precious dream realized and you are so desperately still trying to believe that God has a plan for your life just as the scripture states in Jeremiah 29:11?

so many years ago, i thought i was ready for God, i mean, i felt him calling me but i couldnt give myself to him the way i know he wanted me to. i knew i was choosing the path of death in choosing to stay in this lifestyle. i know that my heart was not in line with what God wanted. even as i tried, it was like no, i couldnt give up what i clung to so desperately, yet i knew that i would be like an albatross around my neck. even as i tried to come up for air this thing was causing me to sink lower into the depths. and i came to the conclusion that i cant do it on my own. i need a power or strength greater than i have. there's a 'want to', in me but finding that way out is harder than just making the decision to choose God.
does anyone understand? underneath all the toughness and stuff its still me under there, waiting. please dont look at how i dress or what i say or how i say it. just love and accept me for me.

Journeyvision,

I am praying for you. God has a plan for you, a plan for good and not evil. A plan to give you a future and a hope. (Jeremiah 29:11)

We all struggle and we have ALL stumbled in many ways. The church is to be a hospital for sinners. Praying that God will show you who you can trust.

I realize there are a lot of "religious" people throwing stones and then others embracing the lifestyle. It's very confusing; however, God has always placed His people exactly where He needs them in order to minister in His name. You are precious to Him and He has fashioned you with His own hands. God has a person or persons that He wants to use to be a reflection of His character. He promises to guide us as we seek Him. His Word is a lamp unto your feet and a light unto your path. Stay in His Word.

I am excited to follow your journey. Please keep posting.

You have already taken the first and hardest step. You are talking about it. Even though it is not face to face, it is still a step towards FREEDOM.

Bless You.

Journeyvision -- I love your last question: How can they do this and still be helpful to people? So insightful.

I believe they have decided there is no hope, so they are doing what they see as the compassionate response. But in Christ we have great hope. We are all born with sin, we all have chains, but Christ can break them. I cannot tell you how many people I've seen set free from this. Do they still struggle? Sure! I've been set free of the tendency to lie that I have had since I could talk -- but sometimes I am still tempted! Ironically, they wouldn't tell someone who was born with a propensity to alcoholism there was no hope and this is how they must be, but they do it with these chains.

But there is great hope in Christ. God does not command what He will not help us to do.

I also loved your "Raisin in the Sun" quote. I believe that when well-meaning people tell those with a tendency toward homosexuality that this is how they must always be that their dreams for a normal life dry up like a raisin in the sun.

Thanks for your wonderful questions and thoughts.

Dee

what i would like to know is, how come a lot of the churches are starting to embrace this lifestyle. i thought it was wrong but it seems like its always in the news of some church denomenation that is changed to accept it. how are people who are coming out of this, going to think if they see the church changing. it's confusing to see it or read about it or hear about it on the radio. i suppose that God still expects each person to have their own decisions but still, i mean how can they do this and be helpful to people at the same time?

I m really hoping you are right Fellow ( do you mind if I call you that?) I think that i could use a friend right now. its interesting how i came here to write or say something and now, other people are like wanting to be able to share. sort of like this statment: what happens to a dream deferred?
does it dry up like a raisin in the sun? Or fester like a sore--
and then run?
sort of like that, my dreams of being whole or hole as you put it
are on hold right now

Thanks Dee! =) Truth be told tho, I feel more like "Much Afraid" from "Hinds Feet on HIgh Places! But she too was a "fellow sojourner"! =)

Journeyvision, I think God must be drawing you to a place of healing. I love what I heard once: A journey of a thousand miles, just starts with one small step! Praying for you!

Thanks FellowSojourner,
I appreciate your words. Right now I dont know if I could ever think about sharing to another human being especially another christian in person. Its easy to share here where no one really knows you. But eventually the struggle gets too great to share even online and alone. I would definitely would like it Brestin if you did do a blog on this. I wish there were more things like this to share.
as for now, I just have to wait and hope that someone else cares as much as the people here seem to.

Fellow Soujourner

I'll ask Midday about starting a thread. I'll also make it my next blog post (www.deebrestin.com) I agree -- and your input would be SO appreciated.
Dee

FELLOWSOJOURNER (LOVE YOU NAME, FEELS LIKE PILGRIM'S PROGRESS)
Their website is temporarily down, but I think HarvestUSA.org is one of the most helpful and safe places for those struggling with either homosexuality or relational idolatry. I personally know many who have been helped.

I so appreciate your honesty.

Dear Dee,
I don't know if you would ever want to start a thread dealing with this subject, but if you ever did, I would be willing to participate, and perhaps others who have struggled in this area, would feel more free to share.

We are not so different, just broken, wounded people, looking for love in all the wrong places.

Dear Journeyvision,
What great questions you ask! I too, have struggled in this area, and I think Dee is right, we all struggle with the "idols" we have set up in our hearts. Our "idols" may be different, but nevertheless, they are all "idols". And the problem with idols, is that they hold our hearts captive. Promising more than what they deliver. The good news is that Christ came to set us free. I don't think the church as a "whole" is a safe place, but I do believe, that God's desire is to set us free, more even than we may desire to be set free, and I believe if you cry out to Him, he will bring you someone with whom you can share your inmost self with, someone within the body of Christ. I know for myself, that God brought into my life someone who I could tell everything to, it brought much healing to my heart. Remember, He is the one who WANTS to heal you, to help you, to bring you into wholeness. He is the Faithful One, He hears the faintest cry.

thank you bresin for responding to this. although i am a christian too i havent always been so i dont want to say that all christians have been like this i just am a struggling one. like i said i didnt get in on this discussion just started to listen today and was very surprised to hear like this discussion going about that lifestyle. believe me, there are a lot of people who listened to what you said today. and they wanted to know if it is okay to seek for help in the christian community or will they be rejected too. is it okay to come out of the shadows and seek help?

Edited by author 08-26-2009 11:01 PM
Dear Jannette,

I am so glad you posted. I believe a lot of pastor's wives feel this way. My husband served on a church staff for 7 yrs while we attended seminary. God has shifted our ministry where he does not actually hold a "staff" position, but I can relate to how you feel.

I am not sure where I got the idea that pastors wives cannot have friends in the church, but I had that belief. It wasn't until an older lady reached out to me and really became my mentor that I began seeing things differently.

One thing I learned was to not take myself so seriously. I had an image of what a pastor's wife should be and what I was didn't fit the mold. I finally realized that my image was a moving target. I was never going to hit it, because I was the one that kept moving it.

What I learned after I stopped expecting myself to be "perfect" was that most everyone in the church never expected me to be perfect. In fact,they were actually refreshed by knowing that I was a fellow struggler.

I had the privilege of reading some really good books for pastor's wives and even taking some classes while at seminary that really helped me.

About your anger........you are not alone. In fact, by the time the older lady reached out to me, I was ready to explode. I remember saying to her, "If one more person asks me to do one more thing, if one more person asks my husband to do one more thing, if one more person calls my house late at night...........I am afraid of what I might say!"

Basically, I had emptied my cup. I stopped nurturing myself. I felt guilty if I took time for me or my family. My personal devotional life was almost non-existent as I ran from one church activity to another.

I am a firm believer that if the devil can't make us bad, he will make us busy. Even Jesus took time to be alone. I am praying for you. I feel your heart and I can tell you are weary of the way things are.

One book I read talked about priorities for minister families, but this can be applied to ANYONE.

Picture a target. The bullseye is Christ.

Our first priority (the bullseye) is to be a Christ Centered Person.
Our relationship with Christ must be FIRST.

The next ring around the bullseye is a "married person"-our relationship with our spouse.

The next is a "parent person"-our relationship with our children.

The next is a "Church person"-Be the church "daily" and as you go, not just go to church and get caught up in "busyness". Be the church through your daily activities, not just be busy in many "church" activities. Minister as you go.

The next is a "work person"-our occupations/place of employment.

The next is "community person"

When I first saw this target, I realized that I spent more time with my "community & church involvement" than I did with Christ, my spouse, and my children. What validity would my church and community involvement have if my marriage fails and my children feel I was too busy for them?

There are different seasons of our lives and we must set good boundaries in order to keep our priorities in order. One pastor's wife told me to ask God to give you "ONE" ministry in the church and do it well & learn that sometimes the most spiritual word we can say is "NO!"

I don't know you, but I am praying for you.

You are not alone, believe me....many others have felt or still feel the way you do. I am asking God to give you a special friend that you can trust.

Blessings,
Cheri

Journeyvision - I'm so thankful you wrote. Sometimes we can't see how unlovely we are until someone like you holds a mirror up. We're all in the process of breaking the idols of our hearts -- our struggles are different, but we all have them. We need compassion, prayers, and love.

I get so many letters from women struggling in this area who write just like you, but they aren't willing to come out in a public forum. Thank you.

May we ask the Lord to give us His compassion.

I listened to the radio program today unfortunately its the last day of this study. and you talked about homosexuality. i really am a struggler in this area and its interesting that one of the speakers mentioned this. and i was surprised to hear her say that she understood. i dont think i really hear that a lot but the anger that christians have about it mostly. and i just wish that i could really know that i wasnt rejected by others that they could understand me

Jannette, I am so sorry you feel this way. I think alot of pastors and pastors' wives feel this way, but I think it would be so good to pray and try and find someone, perhaps older, with more life experience, whom you can share with. People who are not "shocked" that pastors and their wives are people, with similiar joys and pains. It is an honor to be someone's friend and to be honored with sharing their burdens. I pray you find a friend like this.

Edited by author 08-26-2009 01:55 PM
I don’t feel like I have any friends to share my burdens with because I am a pastors wife.

When we got married nine yrs ago he was not a pastor and since so many things have changed. First moving away from all my immediate family ( I never imagined that for my life), having the role of a pastor’s wife, then getting called to ministry, working in the ministry, I'm know holding a secular full time job due to financial needs. Our most recent challenging project is planting a church.

I feel so overwhelmed and discouraged as we constantly battle for a balance with work schedules, kids, family needs, ministry needs, finances, ect. The real problem is that I feel my husband continues to put every one else’s needs before our family needs. This really boggles my mind and makes me wonder what kind of family life we would have if he wasn’t a pastor. But it's very clear to me that this isn't an option.

I feel so angry at him and want to be able to support the Lords work but it's so hard for me right at this moment. I'm tired of feeling that what I do or what we as a family forsake is not enough.

Please I just need some extra intercession thru prayer for clarity over this situation....

I moved here 3 years ago, to get a way from a bad marriage, my household consists of myself and my 15 yr old son. I have not been able to find anyone that I could be a good friend with. Part of the problem, I think is that I have not been able to find a friendly church. I work with unsaved women and do not have any of their same interests. I have been so lonely, that I am going to move back to the Cleveland, Ohio area where I have married children and grandchildren. I really love the area that I am in, but financially and emotionally I need to move, and it is breaking my heart.

Thank you for listening my friends

Responding to Jaime's previous post - Yes! I often think the same thing! We pray for God to send someone into the life of someone we're burdened for or for ourselves, but God can only send those who are His and who are willing! We need to keep that in mindand do both, I think....take things to God right away but also remember to be available to Him for His use.

As I am listening to your program today, something that I have been thinking a lot about lately has come to my mind.

Our new assistant pastor in charge of youth and Christian Education came a few months ago. Recently, he and his family had an extended visit back in their former church and area which happens to be where he is from. As they returned to their home here, his wife stated that she felt like she was starting over. This is home now and she loves being here but it's hard. I asked her to explain. She said that she didn't realize how much she missed those deep friendships that she had in their former ministry and being with her friends again really gave her such refreshment as well as a sadness that she doesn't have that here yet. The hardest part is that it takes time to build those types of friendships and, really, only those types of friendships can come from God ~ in time.

She caused me to contemplate this subject. While reading, recently, I ran across the following quote, which I feel sums it all up; "We cannot tell the precise moment when friendship is formed. As in filling a vessel drop by drop, there is at last a drop which makes it run over; so in a series of kindnesses there is at last one which makes the heart run over." ~ Samuel Johnson

I feel this capsulizes the friendship of Mary and Elizabeth. At that moment ~ that tender moment when they so desperately needed each other, their "hearts ran over"!

Sue McCarrell
Hudsonville, MI

I am looking for the caller yesterday--her name is Jill. I so can understand her pain and rejection.

I too have been left in my time of need. My husband left me took all the money and shutdown the bank account. I have been searching for a job for over 1 year now and I have Scleroderma which requires monthly medicine and doctors appointments that cannot be paid for. The bills are past due-oh the list goes on. I know God will provide.

I just wanted to reach out to Jill.
 
I attend a group at the church called Divorce Care for Seperated and Divorced individuals.

Jill-if you see this-please email me at athenamarieroberts@gmail.com

My prayers and Hugs to All,

Athena

I usually do not have the change to listen to Mid-day Connection, put today, I had a chance to listen to some of it. The big question was (as i understand it) was if Jesus was asking you - "What would you have me do for you?" - how would you answer? Now, I believe that we should run to Jesus and tell him our deepest needs. And I even believe that we don't know how to do that sometimes, that's why the Holy Spirit prays for us. And the program, was very good, and I would even like to listen to it again, but it raised some thoughts within me. It seems to me, and now I am only speaking of my own life, but there are times, when you bring a need to someone, and like I said, I believe you should bring it to God first, but say you have. Now, you tell this Christian sister your need, whatever it is, and often you hear, well just bring it to the Lord, He knows and cares all about your needs. Now, I believe this, but can't it be sometimes that we just "shove" it off on the Lord? And by that I mean, aren't we his hands and feet sometimes. If I say, I need a friend, and someone says to me, well, just bring that request to the Lord, maybe I have, or whoever has, and maybe God wants to reach through us to be that friend. Or if I say, I need a job, and again, someone says to me, well, just bring it to the Lord, perhaps, I have. What I really need is an idea, or a lead. God takes care of us - to be sure - but sometimes, he uses other people. If I say, I need to experience the love of God, maybe I need to experience it through you.

Thanks, Dee. I have posted on your other website.

Our son is 18 and starts college in 2 days and declared he was making plans to marry his girlfriend at some point in the next few years. Yes, we are talking to her parents very soon. We are not for this plan and feel this is so premature. There is no need to rush something so precious especially when they have plans to get their Masters degrees. Please pray as I share these thoughts with my dear friend, mother of the girlfriend. I vacillate between wanting to scream or cry. God's grace is definitely going to be needed.

Good sharing!
Barb -- I can only imagine how having your children dating might impact a friendship. That is quite a dynamic. I went through that with a friend who is now my daughter's mother-in-law. Their family was much more conservative than ours and I wondered how it was going to work, but they are very happily married -- and all I can say is, "God's grace!"

And in answer to your question -- I do think that now and then there is a perennial soulmate friendship -- but very rare. Most friends are for a season.

Thanks for sharing eveyone. I also have another interesting friendship discussion going on on my blog at www.deebrestin.com I love it!

Interesting discussion. I don't have any "answers" to give, but it brings alot of thoughts to my own mind. I think about the verse in the Bible which says, (NAS), Jeremiah 17:9,10. The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it? "I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds.

Our "hearts" I think are the problem. I think we all need to cry out to God like David did in Psalm 139:23, where he says, "Search me O God, and know my heart; Try me and know my anxious thoughts; And see if there be any hurtful way in me, And lead me in the everlasting way."

All of us are able (and quite willing sometimes), to fool ourselves. To "make ourselves feel better" about some action or even "inaction" which we choose to do. As Christians, I think we need to be especially careful, because we can do it "in the name of the Lord." We can gossip about a friend, and call it concern. We can use harsh words and call it "truth telling". Or we may "fool" ourselves and use more passive aggressive techinques. One argues, one doesn't talk - whose cruler?

I read something recently, which said we are not responsible "for" someone else but we are responsible "to" someone else.

I feel sad sometimes because I think "us" Christians, are more "skilled" in dishonesty than the world really is, maybe it is because we do know right from wrong. We need to be honest with ourselves, and even that is not enough because we are blinded often by our own sins. But we need to be as honest before God as we know how, ask Him to help us, ask Him to change us, and ask him like David did, "Search me O God." We are responsible for the hurt we do to another, no matter what we call it.

Dear Remi,

Sorry to make you wait so long. FULL days, and I will confess, I forgot about it when I would have had the opportunity.

What I say next is said out my own struggles with a friendship. I've felt quite manipulated by the other person. She says she wants to hear my heart, but when I tell her things that have factored into the way I'm relating, she passes it off, and doesn't appear to see how it has hurt me. Her way of relating has killed a lot of my desire for friendship. I want to just run away. But I don't feel freedom from God to do that at this point. I will confess, I am not sure what is the right way to pursue relationship. For right now, I am going to God and seeking HIM.

I appreciated Dee's last response. She already echoed one of the things that made me cringe--that of implying your friendship must go on. In connection with that is this quote from your letter: "I'm not a stalker, or a stupid person, but I am a gift of God's love toward you. You can accept it or reject it." If there is deep pain in her heart because of something you have done or said, that will feel like a twisting barb in her heart. If there's pain, she's supposed to consider it God's gift and something she needs to just accept?

"If you were my sister, I would say - 'What's wrong with you? How come you don't write - what's going on?'" This part of the letter points toward her. The problem is with her, or she would be communicating. This makes me want to turn away.

There is also the feeling that pressure is being put on for your friend to get her act together and mend this friendship so you can quit hurting.

I wholeheartedly agree with Dee. Make your statements be "I" statements. Ask questions to invite her to share her heart. But don't compel her to tell anything she doesn't feel safe telling.

These parts draw me: "As a friend, I'm not sure what type of friend I am. I'm hurt because I thought we were better friends." "I want to be found faithful." You are baring your own heart. I hear a lot of pain too. Don't make your friend responsible to meet you in your pain. Find someone else to help you sort through things. Find comfort for your pain in Jesus.

There's a lot of push/pull in your letter. I don't know if you've given the letter. If you haven't, I think it would be wise to work through some of your pain, and then write another letter.

Hugs and prayers,
FTL

I have really enjoyed reading the blog discussions on distance in a friendship. It awakens questions why some of my friendships have disappeared. Sometimes the distance has been my choice and other times my friends distanced me. Don't you think we all can go through periods of our life that no matter how sincere our walk with Christ is, we can still falter into unhealthy patterns? I know I have seen that in my own life.

I know I pulled away without explanation a few times which caused much hurt. Why is it so hard to be honest?

This summer I have had a shift in a friendship that I never expected. During one of my darkest hours of my divorce 11 years ago, a special friend rode every wave with me...cried with me, listened to me, prayed with me. Since that time as I have been healing, it is hard to normalize our relationship without the "problem". Sharing normal life is difficult.

Didn't I hear you say Dee, that certain relationships are perennial? I realized that the past few months. We are still friends, but not the same as before. Our first born children are dating each other which has added a whole new dynamic to the relationship. Our parenting values are sooooo different, which I never saw before until we bumped heads in creating standards for each of children. Wow, I would never guessed this 11 years ago! Covet your prayers on this one. We as parents are planning on meeting very soon to try to mend some fences and discuss the dynamics of our children's dating relationship. I am praying God's power will wash over this situation and turn it into something amazing....

Dear Remi,

I love this quote from Lillian Rubin: “The pain of a demise of a soulmate friendship is akin to the pain of a divorce.” I’m so sorry for your pain. Women tend to have more pain in their friendships because they are closer, and the tearing apart rips your very soul.

I think FTL will share more, but I think she does have wise points. There are wonderful things where you affirm your friend and tell her your desires, but I too see some things that may cause her to shy away such as “God doesn’t make mistakes” implying this friendship must last forever or God wouldn’t have begun it. Most friendships aren’t forever, but a gift for a season. I agree with FTL that you need to ask questions and hear her heart.

Since the advent of e-mail (and I don’t know if you sent this letter by e-mail or snail mail) many confrontations are done by e-mail, and I think that is not wise. It is easier for the one confronting, but not effective, for the confronted doesn’t have a chance to be heard. You can’t speak and watch her face — you can’t hear her. You see, our hearts are so deceitful, we have a tendency to be manipulative — and face to face helps disarm that. She can also see, as I sense in your heart, that you really care about her and not just about sounding off and telling her how much she’s hurt you. Face to face also disarms her defensiveness, for she realizes it took love and honesty for you to come humbly. When you do, use “I” messages — for you don’t really know her heart yet.

There are times when I’ve had to give someone I love space and I have missed them, but in doing so, each time, they have come back. However you can’t do it manipulatively, to make them miss you — you have to really let go and leave it with the Lord.

In my own life, Remi, after my husband died, I held on to my daughters too tightly, and God had to pry my fingers away from each one, saying, “Trust in me, Dee — and give them freedom.” Again and again and again I have realized the only One who will never die, never move away, and never betray me is Jesus — and that is the One I must cling to — and then my other relationships become healthier.

I love your heart, your humility — that’s why I asked to put this on my blog — for I sense a real desire to hear the truth to be set free.

Dee

You are the best.
I'll work on it today or tomorrow -- a new thread that will bless many!

Sure Dee, that's o.k. with me. It's how we learn, right?

Remi -- Are you okay if I post this discussion on my website. I think your model of honest seeking and humility is tremendous and could ripple out to many. But I won't do it unless it's okay with you. My site is www.deebrestin.com - I'd post a new thread on friendship. Let me know, dear girl.
Dee

Yes, Dee, you may post my words on your site. I won't have time for a couple days, probably, so will let it for you to do so. After I have a chance to read things posted over there, I might add more thoughts.

Remi, I'll try to write more for you later. I'm too tired to think it through tonight.

Got it! Thank you SO much! I plan on listening to the podcast later - I so enjoyed today's show!

Teresa -- this is from memory -- but it's close!
1. If possible, go as soon as you can, face to face. Next best, the phone.
Don't e-mail.

2. Tell them what you did that was hurtful -- and don't say a word about their part, if they played a part.

3. Tell them ways you realize that must have hurt them

4. Tell them you are so sorry

5. Let them know how you are taking steps not to do it again

6. If you can repair something, do it!

Thanks for wanting to know!

Can you please post the steps to an apology - I need to have those and I was in my car driving at the time and couldn't write them down! Thank you so much for today and the past shows - I have so enjoyed this Bible Study!

Remi -- if we all had teachable hearts like yours this world would have so much more love. Thank you. I'm eager to hear what FTL says too!
Dee

Dear FTL,
Thanks for your honesty. It is not easy to hear, but I appreciate it! I know I have left myself open for criticism, and it's never easy to hear something bad about yourself, but it does leave an opportunity for growth, and I am open toward that. I would love to hear your thoughts, about the parts of my letter, which made you cringe, and the hard truths about myself which I may not see.
Thanks for your response, it was a hard thing to say.

FTL's advice is so excellent. I am having a corollary discussion on my blog at www.deebrestin.com answering the question: When is a friend not safe?
FTL -- could I post your advice? Or have you post it yourself?
Thanks so much.

Dee

Dear Remi,

May I speak to you from the other side? I am one who has withdrawn after nearly 30 years of friendship. Because of where I am, I am guessing there is a cause why your friend has withdrawn--a cause that she hasn't felt free to tell you for some reason.

Parts of the letter you posted are good. But other parts made me cringe. I would not feel invited to relationship if I received it. I would feel controlled, and ready to run even farther.

I think Dee's suggestion of reading the Boundaries book is great. As you do so, lay out your heart before God on what He wants to show you about you. If you pursue relationship later, it would be well to ask questions that would draw out your friend. I think what you really want is to hear her heart. Ask questions that will invite her to share it, but not compel her. If she speaks, then listen. It may be hard to hear. It may be distorted, which can wound deeply. But there may also be hard truths you need to hear.

Hugs and prayers!

Thanks Dee! =)

Sweet girl. My guess is she will miss you and God will restore this one day. I pray for that!

< replied-to message removed by QT >

Thanks for your response Dee. It is good counsel! I so love and miss my friend, I just wish there was something more to do. Thanks for your kind response, it's good counsel - thank you!

Dear Remi,
Faithful friends are rare, Proverbs tells us, so I love your desire to be that to your friend.

When someone withdraws, it usually is not effective to pursue them, for they tend to withdraw more, feeling a bit backed into a corner. It usually is more effective to express love and then give them space, and they may return. If you do feel led to ask some questions, it might be good to do it face to face, after reading the Boundaries Face to Face book, which gives great guidance on how to speak the truth in love in every single sentence. You could still do both of these things at this point -- going to her and simply telling her you love her, but you are going to give her space -- and if she feels comfortable coming to you and talking sometime, you would so welcome her.

I love your heart -- and I suspect a twenty year friendship shows she does too, but is going through something where she is feeling the need for space.

I will pray for you and this friendship!

Dee

I love the story of Ruth and Naoimi. I love the faithfulness of Ruth and her love for Naoimi. I have a friend who I have been friends with for over 25 years. It's something when you meet someone, and the Lord "knits your hearts together." This was the way with my friend. Within my heart, God has placed a love for this friend, which in hard times, and bad times, hasn't diminished. I know it's a "gift" from God because it doesn't go away. The last 5 years or so with my friend has been difficult, and because of circumstances in her life she has withdrawn, which has been painful to me as a friend. I want to withdrawn myself at times, because of my own hurt. But God, has put a love in my heart for this woman, that doesn't change or diminish. It's painful, to be sure, because I feel rejected, but then I thought, ya know, I need to get myself out of the way. God, I believe places people in our lives for a reason, and the opposite is true also, we have been placed in others hearts for a reason, who knows but we may be the instruments that God uses to show that other person, unconditional love. (I am not perfect, by any means, and some of the letter you may not understand because of the relationship, but I would like your feedback!) (I also know I am opening myself up for criticism, but your honesty is appreciated.) On that note, I'd like to offer the letter I wrote to my friend:

Dear ,

I don't understand what is going on with you, how come you never write? And please don't insult me by saying your "too busy" or "you hate to write."

It's funny but I don't know how to treat you actually.

If you were my sister, I would say - "What's wrong with you?" "How come you don't write - what's going on?"

If you were my mother, I would be deeply wounded, knowing you don't care enough to write - that I've meant so little to you.

As a friend, I'm not sure what type of friend I am. I'm hurt because I thought we were better friends than not. But apparently that is not the case either. That's hurtful, but I'll get over it.

But one thing I think I am to you is a sister in Christ. I don't think things can change that, because it was born of God.

There are many good reasons why I think that God brought you into my life - but the opposite is true also - God knew also that I could be used to bring something into your life. God doesn't make mistakes, we do.

I want to be found faithful , to carry out the things that God has given me to do, and certainly, God hasn't made my way hard , painful sometimes, but not hard. It's getting myself out of the way, that sometimes is difficult.

God has put a love in my heart for you. It doesn't change or diminish. Alot of time, I wish it would go away because it is painful.

I'm not a stalker, or a stupid person, but I am a gift of God's love toward you. You can accept it or reject it .

God had a purpose , I am sure of it. He doesn't make mistakes .

What we do matters! It's a good and sobering thought! Thank you Dee for your response!

Hi M.D.
Good question. I know that we are completely forgiven and God throws our sins into the deepest sea. Yet rewards will be given, and there may be tears (which will be wiped away) for not living more fully for Him when we had the chance. The rewards will be crowns to be cast at his feet, for we can do nothing without Him.

I find Randy Alcorn's response to this question helpful:

In what sense will believers be judged in heaven?
Answered by Randy Alcorn



All believers will be judged in heaven. All righteous acts—many of which will have been disregarded and some punished on earth—will be finally rewarded. All believers will stand before the "Bema seat," the judgment seat of Christ. The result of this judgment will be the gain or loss of eternal rewards (1 Cor. 3:12-15; 2 Cor. 5:9,10; Rom. 14:10-12). These are sometimes depicted as crowns (James 1:12; Rev. 2:10; 1 Cor. 9:24-25; 1 Pet. 5:1-4; 2 Tim. 4:6-8; 1 Thess. 2:19). These represent positions of leadership and service for Christ in his kingdom (Matthew 25:21; Luke 19:17; Rev. 20:6).

The Bible treats this judgment of believers with great sobriety. It's not a meaningless formality, but a monumental event in which things of eternal consequence are instituted. It has a profoundly positive aspect of reward for earthly service, as well as the sobering aspect of loss of reward for unfaithful service. Jesus says to Christians, "I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds" (Rev. 2:23). He said, "I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward" (Mark 9:41).

There's a "proper time" for the harvest, a time that normally follows our life on earth—"Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up" (Galatians 6:9). The Christian's works done for God's glory will have eternal significance—of those who die in Christ, God says "their deeds will follow them" (Rev. 14:13). Our rewards in heaven will link us eternally to our service for Christ on earth. There is a change in location, but a continuity between our lives here and there.

Heaven marks the beginning of eternal adventure, but the end of earth's window of opportunity. One moment after we die, we will know exactly how we should have lived. But there will be no more second chances. As there will be no opportunity for the unbeliever to go back to earth and live his life again and this time to put faith in Christ, so there will be no opportunity for the believer to go back and relive his life, this time for Christ. "Only one life 'twill soon be past; only what's done for Christ will last."

Hello everyone!

Please forgive me for using this site, as the question I have does not really pertain to the friendships of women, but this is the only site I know where you can ask questions and other Christian women would give you their good input! I guess it is putting into practice the "friendships" of women! =) Thank you.

I was at a Bible study yesterday, and the question came up: "will Christians be judged in heaven?" My own immediate response was no, Christ has paid the price for my sin, and took the judgement for all my sin, past, present, and future. My sin has been judged, and I have been found guilty - but there is one who has taken my place and upon himself took the penalty for my sin and because of Christ, in Christ, I have been declared "not guilty". How then, can we be judged in heaven?

This question really got "under my skin", so when I got home, I looked up passages regarding judgement in the Bible. 2 Corithians 5:10 says, "For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." There are further references such as: Hebrews 10:29-31, Romans 14:9-12, 2 Tim:4:1,2, Rev 11:17-19, Rev 20:11-13, and Rev 20:12-14. I would love to get your insights on this, and further my understanding.

Hi Catharine - Face to Face is an extension of the basic boundaries, on how to lovingly confront someone face to face. It's great you are doing the Boundaries Workbook.
Dee

Can you give a brief description of the difference between the contents of the book "Boundaries" and "Boundaries Face to Face"?

I've been slowly reading through the book "Boundaries," and doing the workbook. Heart wrenching many times! Along with that, I'm doing a lot of journaling and praying about what God wants to teach me.

A fresh wound from my friend makes me all the more determined to find out who God wants me to be in friendships.

The verses and your guidance are very helpful. This person I'm talking about is much older than I am and thinking back on past statements she made to me, she doesn't see things in black and white, wrong and right or bad or good. I really don't understand her reasoning. For example once she had mention about going to see a show where people eat glass or are under some kind of trance and are able to do abnormal things. I did rebuke her. However, later in our relationship, She invited to a house "party" where the host always gets into a trance unbeknown to me . She explained that's the way the host was, that he goes in an out of trances without notice. I thought that was unusual. But to her it's ok. Thinking back I should have stopped the friendship then but I didn't. The devil is deceitful and has decieved her and I don't know if she wants to change. And writing this shows me that she has not respected my beliefs or me. So this is quiet disturbing.

mmpp: This is an excellent question. I wish I could give you a black and white answer, but this is where you are going to need wisdom. Consider, for example, the contrasting advice of Proverbs 26:4-5.
Verse 4 warns: "Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him himself."
Verse 5, in contrast, says: "Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes."

What this means is that one response is right for some situations, and the opposite for others. The questions you must ask the Lord are: "Show me her heart -- does she really want to change, or not?" "What is my motivation -- what is pure, what is not?" "How are You leading?"

If you do decide that verse 4 better fits this situation, I'm not sure you have to break if off "officially," but simply distance yourself subtly. I know when I am in this situation I want to say, "I am sensing you are not open to hearing from the Lord right now," but the problem is, that may only increase hard-heartedness. So if it is a verse 4 situation, then I'd back off subtly but continue to pray for her.

However, if the Spirit tells you it is a verse 5 situation, then I'd consider reading Boundaries Face to Face and plan your talk with her according to those guidelines.

My prayers are with you!

Dee

Hello Dee, Thank you for your mentoring/teaching sessions last week. You spoke about not eating with friends who are hypocrites or even associate with them. I wanted to know if that includes not ministering to them as well since they claim to know God and justify their actions like saying that they pray before they do anything. I had shared a few words with a friend whose actions are questionable and she made those type of excuses. I did tell her that we see life differently, her and I, and I don't understand her choices. I think that the enemy uses such people to try to make us stumble in our walk with God. I fully agree with the word not to be around such people however, I'm not sure about not ministering to them over the phone. If I should stay clear of her altogether, how should I break it off without being hurtful. I'll appreciate any input. Thanks

Thank you, Dee. Your kindness and compassion has brought tears to my eyes. May God empower the prayers given on my daughter's behalf, and may those who stand in the gap for her be greatly blessed. God is good.

Dear Sandy,
I so sense your ache for your daughter. It is so hard to see our children in pain. And it often is true that when we've been repeatedly hurt we withdraw, like Naomi did. The women on this forum have often come alongside and interceded, and I'm suggesting we pray for your daughter, that God would bring healing, and that He might, unless He has a better idea, bring a Ruth alongside to love her.

I'm praying right now.

Dee

I'm sorry - I meant to mention Naomi in my post,not Ruth.

Hello all. I am unable to hear the entire broadcast most Wednesdays but am enjoying the parts I do get to hear. Today was especially difficult for me as you discussed praying for friends. Some of you said you had never thought of doing that. I have been praying for a quality sister-friend for my daughter, now age 29, since she was in early grade school. She has, like Ruth, an injured heart, having placed a baby for adoption (another story - God has blessed that situation) and having had to do the hard thing, ending very serious romantic relationships twice. She has never blamed God for any of her difficulties and wants to please Him. She lives alone now and even though she goes to a great church with over 2000 members she still hasn't connected. She is weak and her past injuries make her tend to not trust others initially as easily as others might. She's too tired to take risks, and when she has in the past it seems things haven't worked out. She is a beautiful person and has been a wonderful faithful friend to many, but usually finds herself in relationships where the responsibility is heavier on her side than theirs. When Anita commented on how exciting it was that God provides friends my heart dropped, even though I know he does. When she continued her sentiment with "and at just the right time!" I couldn't help but wonder, where is God in my girl's life? In a book on prayer, author E M Bounds says that unanswered prayer is a training ground for unbelief. I can see how that would be. Even though my daughter believes God is who he say he is I know she's very doubtful that he has plans for her in this area. She was designed from the very beginning with a huge desire for family and children, and the pain is becoming excruciating. Hope deferred is making her heart (and body) sick. After saying all of that, does anyone have any suggestions regarding interceding on behalf of others for friends/relationships? Thanks for letting me vent and come to you for input.

I totally understand your position. When I came forth my in-laws who are Christian were more concerned about the embrassment to the family then to my well being.

I'll also alert Melinda and Anita to your post, and see what they say. I so understand what you are saying. Too many Christians do not understand that they are enabling abusive behavior, do not encourage the setting of boundaries, are not supportive of separation -- and you need exactly what you have asked for!!! Jan Silvious's book Fool-Proofing Your Life and the Boundaries books by Cloud and Townsend are so helpful

I appreciate you writing and hope more will respond to you.

Dee

I'm not sure if this is the place to share this or not, but I would like to see a forum on the July 27th show, Understanding an Abusive Relationship. My emotionally abusive relationship with my husband, separates me from friendships with other women, especially women who believe that I just need to pray for him, and that I need to change. Although those statements are true, they don't go far enough to understanding the depth of the situation. I need to be able to express my hurt to someone who will accurately access my situation and state: "This is not normal or Many men think this way. It's a guy thing..." Right now I am staying in my situation because I am free to leave. I am choosing to stay because he is "working" on the relationship with a counselor. But everything Laura was saying is saying is so true. He is manipulative, charming, and extremely intelligent. When I open up to him, he uses it against me later on...
     People in my church want to believe that everything is OK, since one is a Christian. They don't want to hear about problems, often because they have no clue of what to say or do.
I wondered if anyone has ideas about this subject. Thanks!

mmpp: I'm so sorry for your pain. I can see how you have grown and learned in the midst of pain. The fact that you have a 15 year friendship is wonderful, and the fact that you have drawn boundaries with an unsafe friend is also evidence of maturity. I'm sorry for your pain, but also very proud of you. We shouldn't take risks with everyone -- but give ourselves time to see if it is wise.

I'm really aprehensive on the topic of opening up to friendship. I have one close friend that has lasted over 15 years and I'm greatful. It isn't easy or perfect but we except each other for who we are. I've also had a frienship that lasted about 5 years and has now ended. I'm open person and I thought she was too, that's why I gave all my heart to this frienship. But little by little I notice that her beliefs are different from mine as a christian. However I made excuses for her until I became a victim of her controling attitude. My mistake in this relationship was that I openned up to her just because she said she was a christian and I didn't give myself time to see the fruit of the spirit in her. I was vulnerable, having gone through a seperation and a divorce and her in the same situation, I got involve to fast with her. So now I'm a bit scare to open up to others as I did with her. She even threaten me one time for pulling away from her after she tried for the 2nd time to set me up with someone against my wishes. She got upset because I stopped talking to her. She's very controlling. Well I pulled away again the same way because I didn't want to here about her extra marital affair. I didn't answer her calls and didn't call back because my spirit was unsettled every time I speak with her. I am convinced that she is a carnal christian if she's a christian at all. She really doesn't listen to my views. So I can't really give the gospel to her.

Betty,
I just read your posts and will pray for you right now for God to give you peace.

I have walked in your shoes, only just for 10 years. I would be happy to share more with you, especially regarding your plight of visitation if you wish. You can email me at barb@langes.us

Praying,
Barb

I'm standing in faith with Dee. That God will bring a "Ruth" into your life so you will see just how beautiful God's glorious power is!

Hi Barb! Thank you again for your words of encouragement! I can't tell you how much weight is lifted when you hear of others who went through something similar as you and they got through it with the Lord's help!

If you ever want to email me (or if anyone else would like to email me also) you can reach me at theartofgrace@gmail.com

I will remember your daughter in my prayers too! The situation sounds similar to my family- my parents are separated, and my dad is unbeliever.
Thankfully my mom has raised us with a foundation of the Lord and His Word!

Questioning: I totally agree with you. I truly don't have a good friend and I'm almost 50 years old. I have been stabbed in the back, talked about etc and feel what is the use. I pray all the time that God brings a true friend into my life, but that has never happened. I get tired of the one who always initiates thingg and just feel, why bother. So, I'm with you and agree with your feelings. You are not alone!

Thank you Dee, you are a kind and dear woman. I love your heart that ministers to women! Thank you.

Questioning: Oh -- so much pain in your posting. I'm so sorry. The truth is we are more sinful than we want to believe and people do hurt one another terribly. Yet it is also true that Christ can dramatically change a heart. I think when you have been terribly wounded, you naturally withdraw, or strike back, and it takes you into a downward spiral.

I would ask the women on this forum to pray for you, for healing, for a "Ruth" to come into your life. I'm praying right now. I do care about your pain.

Dee

I don't think I really believe in the friendships of women. I think if you open your heart a little, you get hurt a little. If you open your heart alot - you get hurt alot. There are many popular songs saying how "love" is worth it, but I don't know that I believe that that is true. There are other songs saying, how love hurts, love wounds. I would have to agree with this one more than the first. It is not in the giving of love that hurts, but in the expectation of receiving love.

Hello ladies!

I noticed that a few spam messages were posted. I deleted them and will continue to monitor the forum. If you notice any spam, feel free to drop me a note at midday@moody.edu and I'll delete it right away.

Thanks!
Lori Neff
Midday Connection Producer

Thank you!

Hi Betty,
I can understand your concern. I do know that so often we simply don't have control in life and all we can do is surrender our children to the Lord, who loves them more than we do. I was faced with a a very difficult situation with an adult daughter who had an abusive husband and I surrendered her to the Lord and the Lord came running and rescued her. She has scars, but God is turning those scars, as Sara Groves sings, into beauty marks. We can pray, pray, pray. I think you can be thankful your older children don't want much to do with him. Let me pray for you.

Lord, I pray You will watch over Betty's children, and particularly guide this young son and protect him. Please give Betty peace that YOu see, You care, and that You are at work. In Jesus Name

Dee

Dee,
Something I have recently been told is that most young boys will want to go live with their dad at some point possibly between the ages of 12-14, this just frightens me as I know how this man is to live with. He is currently on a great campaign to win over this boy to come live with him (Our son is almost 10). I think partly so he can get out of child support. He can provide fun, without having to seek child care, etc. I cannot compete with this. I am trying very hard to provide stability all the while feeling like my efforts are being circumvented. Our older adult children don't have much to do with their dad, which makes me really sad, I always wanted my children to have a good relationship with their dad, but he wrecked it. My son 23 uses dad for his own gain, my 21 year old daughter doesn't even want to talk to him. She states it is because of how he treated(s)us she doesn't like.
Any insights on how to deal with this issue?
Thanks again,
Betty

Dee,
Thanks for your prayers. Yes, there is much pain. I struggle to face my days, sometimes difficult to get out of bed unless my son is home or I am scheduled to work. I have to focus on the negatives of my marriage to maintain a sense of being ok even though alone. My ex claims to be a Christian yet has another woman living with him and they look and seem happy. My counselor has stated that a leopard doesn't change it's spots and tells me to remember that I know what incredible price there is to pay to be with him. My son comes home from visitations and tells me things that remind me of how it was to live with him. Facebook has helped me to stay in contact with some people, yet it is not in person. I am leary of dating as I don't want to chose someone else like my ex and am praying that God will send the right one if meant to be as I don't want to chose. Thanks for listening and again for your ministry.
Betty

Dear Betty,
Oh -- so much pain. I am thankful that you are letting the dysfunctional people go, and I do pray that the God of all Comfort will comfort you. I will pray for God to give you wisdom in reaching out, and provide some good friends. I so appreciate your writing.
Dee

Edited by author 07-15-2009 02:11 PM
Hi Dee,
I was just listening to the broadcast on Midday Connection and especially appreciated the comments at the end regarding divorced women and how God will hold the one responsible for breaking the marriage covenant accountable for their actions. I was married to an abusive man for 25 years, together for 23, I am now pretty much alone except for a 10 year old. So many changes within the past 6 years: Seperation, new church family, divorce, 2 children moving away (empty nest of sorts), loss of beloved pastor (forced resignation, not his sin) and losing 1/2 to 3/4 of church family, job hours reduced. I am now seriously lonely and am struggling to find my place, purpose in this life. I am an only child and with conseling help have discovered how to let my biological family go as they are severly dysfunctional and as I have tried with no success to have a relationship with them, they don't or can't reciprocate. I am looking forward to the next broadcast on how to make friends, the loneliness is often so unbearable. If I was working more I'm sure it would help, but not at this time, seeking and waiting on God for the appropriate job at the appropriate time.
Thank you much for your ministry.
Betty

Catharine -- thanks for telling us that. It is exciting to see that the Lord is all around you, providing for you, protecting you! Great story of His provision of the Boundaries book and workbook.
Dee

Dee,

I asked a friend who has lots of books if she had either one of the books on boundaries that you suggested. She had the "Boundaries" one, AND the workbook that goes with it (which she never wrote in). She was at my house today, and loaned me both of them. I've started reading, and see myself all over. It's rather hard to the problem so clearly, as I thought I was learning to set boundaries over the last ten years.

Thanks so much for your caring of others. Your words have blessed me tremendously!

Catharine

Thanks for sharing, Barb. I know there will be a great reversal in heaven -- so glad you can have that sister in Christ right in your home!
Dee

Dee,
Thank you for your kind words and for taking the time to share your life and thoughts with all of us.

I'm sorry to hear of Steve's passing. This must be a very difficult season of life for you at times as you see other couples enjoying their retirement years together. Thank you for not stopping your ministry focus. You have helped so many of us as we see your life and hear your encouraging words on Midday. You have chosen to not give up and that is such a gift to us.

Thank you for praying for my friendships. I know God will provide; sometimes it is so hard waiting. I know there are other women who feel the same way I do and I'm sure we can encourage each other in the process. Our cleaning lady at work is becoming a very dear friend and prays for my family. Who knew? Others may pass her by as she carries a mop and broom, but I'm finding a wonderful prayer partner in her!

Blessings
Barb

Edited by author 07-11-2009 11:47 AM
Ariane,
it was great to hear from you. It does help to know you are not alone. After a very difficult abusive 10 year marriage, God brought a gem into my life who married me and loves my children as his own. It isn't always easy, but I'm grateful for 'rest of the story'!

Would you pray for my daughter's visitation time with her dad this summer? She has about 3 more weeks of visitation yet and the environment is not one where she can grow spiritually from those around her. We usually have to undo alot of things she has been exposed to. Thanks! It is great to chat on here with you!

God bless your day.

Barb

Barb -- It can be so hard to feel like you are always the initiator! Sometimes there are seasons like that (I'm in one now -- and doing a lot of initiating in my new town) and then sometimes the Lord surprises you with a friend or two who are more reciprocal -- I'll pray for that for you.
You seem so caring.
Dee

Ariane -- Your excitement excites me. Keep us posted!

Catharine -- that's a sound plan with wonderful prayer requests -- I've prayed through them.
Dee

Thank you, Dee, for your response. I am definitely interested in reading either of the books you mentioned. Thank you for your prayer. The whole response encouraged me.

Ariane, thank you too, for your prayers.

I had a chance to talk with one of the board members of our ministry today who knew nothing of what was going on between us, other than that there was a conflict. She encouraged me to enlist a group of people to fast and pray with me about it. Here are some specific things I am asking my friends to pray for:

1. That my friend would be willing and ready to have a third party involved, and would suggest it. (It would probably work best if she's the one that suggests it. It might work if I suggest it, but I don't think she's ready for that step.)
 
2. That both of us would see the areas where we have failed, and take full responsibility for them.
 
3. That God's Name would be glorified through us.
 
4. I'm being greatly affected physically with the stress from this. Pray that I would find my security in God, and be restful about this, even while seeking God's face where He wants me to go.

Hi there...I have been extremely busy so I have not been posting and being a very good support friend here...but oh well...I am here today and that is what matters...
Where and what ministry is this for women that have struggled with Sexual Abuse at? I went through a training in Michigan through SALTS Open Hearts Ministry...the material covers a lot of Dr. Dan Allender's material from the "Wounded Heart" it is a good group experience and I recommend it highly for all leaders to go through who are leading groups...it strips away a lot of the idolatry us survivors cling onto due to the fact we are trying to fill up our empty cisterns and or longings that have been robbed...

http://www.ohmin.org/leadershiptraining/

I feel your pain and struggle in this area...But note that God will get you through it and going to him is the key...read my blog...

As I ponder through my Bible this evening and my heart is crying out for forgiveness and mercy and healing...
I am reminded of Ps 42:2...My Soul Thirst For God...
in Anthropology I remember studying the concept of man's creation as the relational side as it's focus. It assumes that we have the potential for relationships and the capacity for it...Based upon my acknowledgement on my dependence on him. Relational is not mutual, in that it is not equal...Creator with Creature...so if Biblical Counseling is spiritual warfare and spiritual warfare is really a declaration of independence then Biblical counseling is dealing with the independence that I have...
thus, Faith is an exercise of dependence...
Man will always be dependent due to the fact that God gave Adam the task to tend the garden...man's reality is marked by depravity and we are often in obvious denial of dependence which is always coached in behavioral terms.
(you need to believe in truth rather than turn toward God) EPH 5:8-11,13
We have a bent towards maintaining control for the sake of our comfort and perceived sense of safety. In dealing with our own depravity and others we must remember the Holy Spirit does the work...not us...We can prepare to minister to others by allowing the Holy Spirit to work in our own life...
II Cor 3:17
The expression of independence looks different in different people...our weaknesses are also our strengths...our capacity for relationship is with a thirst for God and intense longings for a relationship which He can only fulfill...John 4...
God also has given us a capacity to rationally evaluate the events of our lives, tainted by sin...we have been given the capacity to choose and pursue the direction that has been established on the basis of our rational analysis...(volitionality) I PETER 4:3 This Reawakens our capacity to choose and our God given ability to subjectively and consciously experience our world to process our emotionality...acknowledging our amotions and realizing why they are there...too often we are in denial of our emotions which in turn creates numbness...
What I am trying to get to is that the motivational core that makes me look for relationships with God and other people is my longings...Secular counseling denies the thirst...they will deny that need so they will exploit "SELF" into independence, which is Sin...here is what they are denying us...
Inner Being: Prov 20:27; 22:6; 139; 51:6
Holy Spirit: I Cor 2:11;Matthew 6:22-23
Avoiding Examination: Because we have been disappointed and caused us
intense pain...blatant or subtle...
The disappointment in pain reveals just how incomplete we really are because every individual lives with disappointed longings. It is our perceived memories that create our longings...which brings me back to the concept of the inner most being, which is our appetite, my heart...Phil 3:19; Rom 16:18; the drought Ps 42; the thirst John 7:37...if I allow myself to ignore the longings than I will rob Christ the opportunity to meet me...than I eliminate the cross...to be continued...

Catherine, I just wanted to let you know that I will be praying for you, your friend, and your ministry. Your ministry touches close to home and I know of many women who come from a past of sexual abuse also who would be blessed with a ministry like yours. May the Lord shed some light and guidance! I am praying for you!

Barb, thank you so much for your prayers too and for sharing what you went through! It's an encourage to my soul to hear of others who have struggled with this same issue I struggle with. It's the Lord ways of showing each of us, "See, I got this child through the same struggle, and I can get you through it also. You just have to surrender to me, so I can work."
Thank you again Barb!! Is there anything you would like me to pray for?

Dee, thank you so much for your prayers! I am a little bundle of nerves but also extremely excited- in the last 3 days I have surrendered to the Lord- His will be done. Slowly and ever so gently, He is taking me by the hand and leading me. I can feel His working around me, and I am excited to see where He leads me to!
I was listening to Selah, I love what Nicole sang, "If You think I'm going under, part the waters Lord."
Thank you so much for your caring heart and for taking the time to pray for me!
Your ministry has been a TREMENDOUS blessing to me and countless other women!
God bless you and continue to work through You for His glory!

Arianne I just read your message and will place you before the throne of God this minute. I can understand your heart because I have stood in your shoes several years ago. I am divorced not by my choice and was longing for connection. I met someone that I clung to that I found out later was not spiritually healthy. It was so hard, but God slowly peeled my fingers away one by one from holding on so tightly. When I let go, I cannot tell you the freedom I found and God blessed me beyond what I could ask or think. Trust Him! The tears will be less each day and soon you will have joy in making the right decision.

Dee, the thoughts you penned in "Friendships of Women" have spoken to my heart over many years. I remember the first time I read this book 22 years ago, I was starving for friendship and had recently moved to Wash D.C. with my husband and a brand new marriage. I had always had friends, and I couldn't understand the loneliness. Your book helped me tremendously to see that our culture has really isolated us from friends and family.

I am struggling again with a need for deep fellowship with other godly women, maybe even a mentor. Why is it so hard for us to connect as women? I feel like I always initiate with my friendships and long for someone to pick up the phone and call me to see how I am doing. I know this sounds selfish, but am I correct in thinking people get used to their roles as initiators and responders? It would be nice to have someone invite me to lunch! Maybe we are all too busy!

I work full time now and my spare time is mostly spent with family responsibilities. I do cherish my friendships and try to work in lunch dates and weekend times as much as I can with friends.

Thank you for your example and encouraging words through your writing. You have been such an inspiration to many, including myself.

Dear Catharine,
Your ministry sounds so important, and I agree with you about how Satan would love to destroy it. I'm thankful that the Lord helped you recognize your idolatry toward this woman, and is continuing to give you insight into her so you realize she too, like all of us, has feet of clay. I think reading Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend would be helpful. I also liked Boundaries Face to Face. Clearly you need to be setting some boundaries. When she has an idea, you should pray about it, and if you are likeminded, then you can support her, but if not, then you will need to firmly set boundaries. If she cannot accept boundaries, it may be that the Lord is taking her out of your life, for good, not for evil.

Let me pray for you:
Lord, I come to You on behalf of Catharine and this ministry to abused women, asking for Your help and protection. I pray You will equip Catharine to speak the truth in love, to set boundaries, and I pray You will work in the heart of her friend to receive. If this friend does not respond, and it is Your plan to take her out, I ask for Your help with an ongoing work for the women who have been blessed by this ministry.
We pray for You to make a way, and that You will guide Catharine every step of the way.
In Jesus name

I've been listening to your study online, and being greatly blessed. At the same time, I'm in a great turmoil. I have a relationship with another lady that has been in an upheaval for quite awhile now. We started a ministry together, so have been deeply involved in each other's lives. The last couple years some things have been coming to the surface, and I don't know how to deal with them all. Last year I took several months to pray about it extensively, and lay my heart out before God. He showed me I'd made an idol of her. I came to Him in repentance with that, and confessed it to my friend. But I don't know how to proceed with a relationship from here on. I'm scared of getting back into the same pattern.

Also, I have felt very used by her--like any idea she had of something to do, it was my responsibility to help her accomplish it. It doesn't feel like she's understood her how she did that, and I'm scared to do more than I have to with her, because I don't have confidence she's really seen her part, and thus probably isn't going to change.

I know Satan would love to see our ministry (support for sexually abused women) destroyed.

Any guidance you can give will be deeply appreciated.

For listeners who are grieving or have a friend who is grieving, I posted my article for Focus on the Family on how to help a friend in grief on my website: "Don't Send A Sympathy Card."

Thanks! Blessings to each of you.
Dee

I'd like to pray for three of you:
Ariane: Lord, thank You for this dear woman, and her desire to love you most. She wants to stop making her boyfriend an idol, but knows that she does. Help her to fall more deeply in love with You. Nothing is too hard for you, Lord, so I also pray for a sister in Christ who will help her find strength in You. In Jesus Name

Leaning on Him: Lord, I thank You for this woman's heart, and her spirit. I pray You will bless her with Your increasing understanding of Your love for her. In Jesus Name

Rose: I sense she's been deeply hurt, but is also using that hurt to remind herself of how You are the One who will never betray her. Please comfort her, and show her again how deeply You do love her.
In Jesus Name

I was on my way to the store today, and thought why not turn on Moody Radio.

The message you guys gave today really hit me. I am feel somewhat "stuck" right now.
I am in a relationship with a guy- while I used to think highly of the fact that we are not sexually involved, I am saddened at the reality that I am dependent on him. He is an "idol" to me.

I attend a rather conservative and small church near North West Indiana and there aren't really any younger women my age there.
So needless to say...all my Christian friends are far away and spread out all over the country.

This is part of why I have felt stuck- I know the Lord wants me to let this guy go, but every time I have tried, the pain of being alone is too severe for me to handle.

If anyone reading this feels led, can you please pray for me?
I want so badly to glorify God in ALL I do.

Id just like to say that I've had relationships in the past with woman I thought were my freinds, but as I've changed and matured, I realize we must guard our hearts every step of the way. Than you for your program and dedication to spreading the message of purity, faith, and running the race to ultimately receive the prize, which is Christ.

I just wanted to take the oppurtunity to thank Dee and Anita and all the women who are involoved in this series. I am a teen, and this has helped tremendously, in every aspect of all of my friendships. The Lord has used this to bring me so much closer to Him and to all of my great and Godly christian friends. I have alot of long distance friendships and my closest friend lives 1200 miles away, and I have shared this with her and we have been discussing and going through this study together, and it has brought so much realization and so much joy and I'm so thankful to the Lord for that.
Thank you, ladies. :]

JlfHuG comment4 ,

Tara -- I absolutely loved your post. So unselfish and giving. And yes, women are so nurturing and relational. I'd love for you to go to my website and see the 28 second video of the baby girl gabbing -- it's the funniest I've seen in so long -- and surely confirms that God made us to be relational! www.deebrestin.com

Thanks for writing and for your warm comments.

Dee

You are a great Bible teacher Dee! I heard different studies you have done and I love that about you! This morning I woke up thinking about mother's day. At our church they had all the women come forward who were mothers and I am not a mother but I thought what a wonderful powerful group of people. They are the nurturers, care-givers, broken heart menders, comforters - what an awesome thing! Then I thought, how Jesus said, I've come to heal the broken hearted, to bind up their wounds..to comfort those who mourn..and all these things..and I thought how God can use women (and has already put this within us) - to heal the broken hearted, bind up their wounds, comfort those who mourn...and just what great instruments women can be in the hands of God!
  Another thought, I had this morning as I was reading John 3, was in John 3:3, Jesus is speaking and He says, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again". And in John 3:5,6 Jesus is talking again and He says, " I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit." The thought I had as I was reading this was - do you know how women feel about their children, how you have this special love for them because they came from you, they are a part of you - God also is our parent - even like a mother, who has given birth and we are His beloved children. We can pain the heart of God, or bring joy to it. But like mother's (and I know there some not so great mothers) but the majority of them - the mothers are the heros - they are the ones that are long-suffering and patient and self-less and giving - they are image bearers of God, not perfect like God - but these qualities show us what God is like. As "children" we look to our parents and I like what someone said,"Alot of things are caught more than taught." I know when I have seen my mother do a kindness, or some other woman do the same, it transforms me and creates within me the desire to be like that. It is a much overused saying, but we really are his hands and feet, and to some we are the only Jesus they will ever see. We have a great Father to look and see His image.

Thanks so much, Mary!

Dee, just listened today to your past program on Midday Connection 4/3 about "Mary's Alabaster Box" - that was beautiful. I love the idea of the alabaster box, I never knew what it meant, and how significant and loving that act was. I especially like the idea that perhaps Christ could smell that on the cross, a reminder of Mary's love for him and what a comfort that might have been. That was powerful Dee, thank you for sharing that! I would recommend anyone reading this to check it out - thank you that was excellent!

Nikki
Love it that you are listening to Tim Keller. I was very convicted by that series and loving God's stuff more than Him. So good. Thanks for sharing about that.
Dee

Thanks Vanessa!

Nikki, I would also recommend 'Because He Loved Me' by Elyse Fitzpatrick. I am currently in a bible study group reading this and it is life changing. Our lives can change dramatically when we live in His love. And be encouraged that you are not alone in the struggle to find a balance. In His Grace, Vanessa.

Thank you Dee. This morning I was listening to one of Tim Keller's messages on the prodigal, I think it was the 1st message in that series - (I know you suggested listening to his sermons to someone here, good suggestion!), anyway, after listening, I was convicted in my own heart of wanting "things" more than wanting him. And also what it made me think about was only when we "are right in that", I don't know how to explain that very well, but when He is first - does he fill those empty places, and instead of looking for our fulfillment in other people or things, we become people who have something to give. He said something like if we don't do that we're setting idols up in our hearts, addicted, or looking for our fulfillment in others.

Thank you, your advice is well received Dee. It is really good advice, because I do tend to 'monkey' with things sometimes. And my motives aren't purely unselfish, sometimes, I hang unto things which I think I need and like you said, God may be moving me on and I have to trust Him in this.

Thank you again Dee.

Nikki
Good question. I love how you said you hate to let a true friend go. Dawson Trotman, the founder of Navigators, says he takes everything before the Father to sift out what is true and what is not. I think if you are aware of anything you did wrong, even if it is 10 per cent of the problem, to confess it and not accuse her of her part. Then lay the friendship down and leave the door open but don't keep monkeying with it, like monkeying with a scab. Pray for it to heal. It may -- or God may be having you move on for reasons only He knows. I love your heart.
Dee

I was wondering about something today and I have a question - How do you know what is true in relationships with people. With God it is simple, if God says it, it is true, because that truth is based upon God's character, and if we differ in our opinion we must come back to his because what He says is true.

God's character is trustworthy, but people are people. I am in a difficult relationship with a friend. I want to know what is true in our relationship - but I don't know what is true. And because I'm not either dealing with the truth or facing the truth or unsure of the truth - I don't know how to deal with it properly or get beyond it.

One of the difficulties in the relationship, is that it is long distance. But it is a friendship, that has been a friendship for about 30 years. I don't know whether to reach out or let go. My friend went through some things these last couple of years, and we didn't really agree, and her communication with me, just seems to be less and less. Though she has said, if there's ever anything I am upset with you about I'll let you know - though there has never been anything she has said like that - I almost wish she would - because it would make things more clear. I just wish I had more clarity. I have a battle within my heart, not of letting go, because I don't even think that's the right term - because I'm not sure you "let go" of a true friend. But I have like pain in my heart over this and I want to know how to deal with it I guess, for my sake, for hers, for the relationship. I've tried to write, I've tried to reach out, tried to ask forgiveness for any break down of the relationship on my part.
So, how do we know what is true?

I heard a program the other day about a woman who had lost her young son and she was saying how it had left a hugh hole in her heart. Then this woman went on to say that soon after that she had volunteered at some homeless shelter or some sort of work like that, and how by doing that she said, each day it had filled up the hole in her heart. It kept her going back. I thought how wonderful - is this not also one way to fill ourselves with the Lord - doing what He would do? Perhaps, it's an emptying of ourselves and Him refilling those empty parts.

Isn't it? I've read nearly every Yancey book, and that's my favorite. One I need to keep reading! Thanks, Shelly.

Been reading the book, "What's so amazing about grace," - really good book, thanks for the suggestion Dee!

How nice to wake to your prayers and blessing, Mary!
Dee

Just up early for work Dee - checking my e-mails - and praying for the Lord's blessing on you today! Thanks for being a "woman of influence" - thanks for being a godly woman! I think I speak not only for myself but others as well! Praying for the Lord's blessing on you today Dee! (Numbers 6:24-26) "The Lord bless you, and keep you;
                    The Lord make His face shine on you,
                    And be gracious to you;
                    The Lord lift up His countenance on you,
                    And give you peace."
Be blessed today Dee - you have been a blessing! =)

You are so right Dee. Knowing myself full well, or knowing enough about myself to know I am deeply flawed and to realize He loves me still - makes me love Him more. There is no great reason for Him to love me - except that He does! It's pretty marvelous! Thank you Dee.

Oh Jo -- I see His beauty in you.The real truth is, we are all failures, but deeply deeply loved.And as we begin to grasp His love for us,  a transformation takes place in us, making us like Him. It hurts so much to lose someone you love, but it also helps us, if we trust, cling more tightly to the One who will never leave us or forsake us.

I see His beauty in you. I really do.

Thanks Dee! Your such a cool person, encouraging, warm, engaging,empathic, and you always point us back to the Lord! Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions. It is hard because I value the relationship and it's a bit hurtful. But your answers are good! How do I not feel like a failure?

Jo -- the break-up of a kindred spirit friendship is akin to the pain of a divorce. Yet if you have done what you can and they don't want to reconcile, you must lay it down. Your good question, though, is how to get over it? I know this may sound like a platitude, but it's not -- that void simply has to be filled -- and the only One who can really fill it is the Lord. He may lead you to other good friends too, who will help. When I started praying for my heart to fall more deeply in love with Jesus, changes began to occur. I'd also suggest you listen to some of Tim Keller's sermons on his website Redeemer.com -- they really help you fall more deeply in love with Jesus and increase your intimacy with HIm.
Praying for you.
Dee

LEFH
In reading research on bullies, they often recommend switching schools. When the parent tries to help, often the bullying is exacerbated. I counseled a friend to switch schools a few years ago for their son was new and being bullied and it made a tremendous positive difference in his life. Praying for you and your daughter.
Dee

I have a question - how do you get over a friend who does not want to reconcile - a long time friend? You miss them - you love them.

Thank you for taking the time to answer me, Dee. Unfortunately, I have not found a study group. Changing schools has been a thought, however, what we are dealing with now is our daughter's lack of confidence and a change in her personality where she is just more quiet and awkward and tries awfully hard to fit it - making her 'not' fit in. She feels 'empty' and 'like no one wants her around' and 'she can't do anything right' - how sad that those are her words!

Thank you so much for your prayers -

Thanks Vanessa!

Shelly,

I have been reading your recent conversations. I just want to put in a little bit here. I have not been on this Earth very long. But unfortunately, I have had many experiences that have taught me this principle: 'Love the sinner, not the sin'. I used to be a judgemental person. And for some reason I thought that God was asking me to show others their sin and 'help them through it'. Well, I can tell you that it is much more rewarding and fulfilling to love them through it. I don't ask any questions anymore. I have been on the other end in which I had committed a sin. And do you know what brought be out of that and over to the other side? Love, love, love. During my lowest time, I don't remember the ones who judged me. What sticks out in my mind are the ones who loved me. This is why we go to Jesus. Because we know that he will love us in spite of our sin. And I believe that is what God calls us to do, too. I REALLY hope this didn't sound too preachy. I don't have the time to edit what I'm writing. But I pray that the Lord will allow you to focus on your friend and not what she possibly has or hasn't done. God Bless.

Thanks Lynda!
I just ordered the book, "What's so amazing about grace" - I think we all need more of it! I know I sure do! And I want to be able to extend the same kind of grace that I received. Sometimes, I don't have a problem because it's very plain to me, I have a sister who got a divorce from a guy who didn't take care of her or her son. They lived in a run down shack, he was self employed with hardly if any business, and wouldn't consider even working for someone else. She had to brush her in a bathtub, because she had no sink. She had borrow money from my Mom to just get by - I don't have a problem with that - to me that's simple. But my friend is different. I tried to ask her - I wanted to be on her side - but when I ask what the problem is - she just said things like I just never loved him. "I got married to him because he was a Christian, and my friends said I would grow to love him." Something like that, which made no sense to me - and this was a very godly woman, one I considered far above me in my christian walk. And it wasn't someone who took things lightly or didn't try - she was married for 34 years - I'm sure if you are married that long, there sure has to be or have been an effort on her part! I wanted her to tell me something which I could understand her side, but with that answer - how can I say she is doing the right thing? I just don't "get it"??

Shelly:



Just be there for your friend.&#C2;&#A0; I've been thru what she is going thru as my ex-husband did not commit adultry, but, he did abandon the marriage.
He didn't want to be married to me anylonger.&#C2;&#A0; As my pastor told me at the time, you have to say that he was the unbeliever in the marriage.&#C2;&#A0; He was acting like an unbeliever and had turned his back on God.&#C2;&#A0; Just because as Dee stated in her response to you doesn't mean that she is necessarily wrong.&#C2;&#A0; Maybe he turned his back on her or maybe not but give her the benefit of the doubt and show her you still care for her.&#C2;&#A0; I think she will respond to your concern for her whether she is right or wrong.&#C2;&#A0; People used to judge me but they didn't know the circumstances.&#C2;&#A0; I know that Yancy's book will give you some insight and wisdom before contacting her.&#C2;&#A0; Hope this helps.


Lynda



< replied-to message removed by QT >

Thank you Dee - as always for your thoughtful and gracious response! I will look those things up! Thanks again!

Shelly -- I love your thoughtfulness, willingness to look at your own heart. Here's a few resources that I think would really help. YOu are so right about giving grace, and Philip Yancey's What's So Amazing ABout Grace is a classic. That doesn't mean we don't speak the truth to our friends, but we also learn to truly forgive. And Christians are too judgmental about divorce -- a great article you can read online from Christianity Today is What God Has Joined: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/october/20.26.html

Abandonment is the other Scriptural reason for divorce and this article shows the Old Testament roots -- a husband was to provide emotionally and physically for his wife, or it was abandonment. You friend may not have scriptural grounds, but as you say, there still needs to be forgiveness toward her and love.

I'd go to her after reading these things and confess your part in the breach, even if it was just 10 per cent, and not say anything anymore about her part. She may or may not want to reconcile, in which case you will need to lay the friendship down and trust God to meet your needs.

Blessings to you
Dee

I have a "friendship" question, sort of. I have a friend who not so long ago, got a divorce. I have really really struggled with this - for this person who got a divorce was like the best Christian I knew. I would also consider her a "soul mate" or kindred soul. But this just kind of blew me out of the water! Is it ever right for a Christian to get a divorce outside of martial unfaithfulness? It's a big question, I think it needs to be addressed. I would really like to know the answer to that. Based on what I knew, I didn't think she had any scriptual grounds for this, and I told her so, because I believed we had that kind of relationship. But eventually my friend started pulling away from me. I did love her enough to tell her the truth, but I think what she pulled away from was my lack of understanding and support ( of the inward kind) of which I had always given. I think I hurt her. And today, I was in my car,driving, and I know within my own self, I have been hurt by her unresponsiveness to me, so much so that I figured - I am not going to open my heart again to her, thinking thoughts like I guess she isn't the friend I thought she was, but deep in my heart I can't believe she isn't the friend I thought she was. Then I started to think about relational idolatry. I thought what am I mad at? Yes, I am totally disappointed, and yes, I don't think it was right - but where do we go with that? A member of my own family did something way worse than that, and I don't believe he's truly repentant, and my brother in law says if anyone deserves hell it is him. And I thought you know what maybe he does and everything you say about him is true - but I think that is a lousy attitude - for after all my brother is someone I love, and if anything I don't want him to go to hell, and I am going to reach out to him and continue to reach out to him, so perhaps he may see the kindness of the Lord one day and repent and change. To just say that and do nothing - where is the love in that? Did not Christ come to save sinners? Is that not his heartbeat? I mean I went through all that - to tell him one on one, to take someone else with me, etc.. (1 Cor. 5). Is this not right? But today, I was thinking about this friend, and I thought to myself, is what I am mad at - is it that she "let me down"? So it got me thinking again about relational idolatry - am I mad because she failed? And would that not in some sense be relational idolatry? And how do I even get beyond that? How can I relate to this friend if we are not on the same page? How do I love?

Dear LEFH
Your story makes me so sad. Bullying is such a real and terrible problem, and can happen to the new girl in school. My heart goes out to you and her. So often the best solution is to move her to a different school, but that may not be an option for you. I am also dismayed at the lack of support you received.

Have you explored any women's Bible studies in the area? Perhaps you already have. Sometimes that is a good place to find women who are more caring -- though we are all sinners, I know.

I am getting before the Father right now to pray for you and your daughter.

Dee

Edited by author 03-10-2009 01:44 PM
My first time writing ... My family is 5 years 'new' to the area in which we live. It is a difficult area to move into, with most people having grown up in this close-knit community and not welcoming outsiders. I may have tried too hard, I don't know. All I know is that over these past years the friendships I thought I'd made have dissolved, all except for one and that is with someone who does not commit closely nor does she 'gossip' which is a big thing here. I believe she still speaks to me because she does not get involved in the gossip of others. However, this originated when there was a bullying issue at our school and I spoke up - more to find out what was going on rather than to put blame anywhere - the school did not handle it properly at all and I am told I should not have addressed it!? The mom who's daughter this involved has totally blackballed me - she's a prominent member to this community - and little by little not one of the people I was friends with even speak to me. I am so sad. My daugher's situation of the bullying last year has left her unconfident and not sure where she fits in - I see her trying hard, but her close friends too have moved on and she doesn't have a best friend. We pray every night and I try, daily, to cast my cares on to God for I know He has a plan. My questions is whether to just let this go and live with it or at least ask a question to one person as to why I am no longer included.

Shelly -- I think this is such a healthy perspective. We are all part of the body of Christ, and Jesus prayed we would be one in John 17. Important things are said when time is running out, and this was his last prayer. I wish more women would feel free to participate in events and studies from various churches -- it is a tremendous witness and blessing to be able to see one another, no matter our denomination, as sisters!

Thanks for your testimony!
Dee

Hi Cecelia! I have been to Bible Studies at different churches that meet on different days of the week, when my church has nothing going on, I don't feel disloyal to the church I attend, I just consider it reaching out to a broader base, meeting new people. The same could be true of joining others from a different church doing some sort of ministry or service project.

Hmmm... I guess I should've mentioned that I wouldn't dare invite anyone over to my house. We won't get into the habits my roommates have. I honestly have a crazy situation that I keep wondering what God must have up His sleeve for me to be in this. So far, I have learned determination and patience.

Cecilia, you should hold a bible study at your house! I have held bible studies in my house and have found it to be a blessing! NOt only is the study great but the fellowship is equally great.

I caught the tail-end of the message the other day. I really enjoyed it, especially in my time of need. I have recently (a couple months ago) moved to a new town. The only people I know are a college friend and my fiance. I have been working hard to create a relationship with women at church. I feel such a desperate need for Christian women with which to interact. Does anyone have any suggestions for finding groups of women in a new town that do Bible studies or anything? My church doesn't have any groups that meet outside of services and I love the church too much to attend another one. I appreciate any input!

I have to agree with the previous statement. I loved the FOW Study and Dee's input was great. But I would have liked more question and answer time w/ call-ins and emails. I don't have any topic suggestions b/c I trust you to choose something great! All of the material on your show is educational, inspiring, encouraging, etc. Thank you for all that you do. And I want to thank Dee for following the Lord's call in her life to share all of these books and Bible Studies with the world.

Loved all your past programs/ forums with Dee, love Dee - great lady, just maybe one suggestion for the forums - ask more questions, I'm sure there's alot of great ladies out there wanting to share!

We are going to tape a program with Dee - a follow up to the FOW study last Fall...any topics/questions you have for us? Comments? Tapig is Feb. 12.

Edited by author 01-19-2009 01:44 PM
Patti,

Perhaps a license Christian Mental Health Practitioner in the church could help...One who has gone through Bible Seminary too...
too bad I don't live where you do...that is right up my alley...

Karen Haynes Gutherless, MA, MACC, PLMHP, PLDAC

Hi Patti!

I'm just jumping in on the conversation here. I have been out of town until now and just checking this forum. I love this forum and the input from different ladies.... while I don't believe in legalism, I do believe the Word is important. The Word of God has the power to transform us, if we are willing to let God's spirit change us. The Word guides us, teaches us, instructs us, and so many more wonderful things. I think it would be a good idea to have someone else knowledgable in the Word to come along side you and help teach the class, maybe someone with the same desire you have to touch and reach people with eating disorders. A thought..

Edited by author 01-15-2009 11:15 PM

Howdy ladies...this is a picture of me and my husband...we are celebrating life, graduation, and good friends...we just finished a book on acceptance,

Becoming What God Intended

A Study for Spiritual Transformation
by Dr. David Eckman

Great book...as we all struggle with accepting ourselves and yet want to improve our walk and life for the Lord...:0) Karen

Thank you Vanessa'

The lead pastor of the church knows me well. In addition, there is a core group of us in our cell group who have been together for more than 9 years. They have seen, supported and walked along side me for that time. Maybe, I'll ask them to get together with me and talk about this.

Thanks for your input.

< replied-to message removed by QT >

Dear Patti,

When I was 25 years old I started a young women's bible study that met out of my home. The Lord was gracious to bless all of us. To this day, we miss that group. (We had to break up b/c alot of people moved and such.) However, I do not have any type of degree. I am not a faithful bible reader and have a problem acception God's love for me. However, I do know that I am child of God and at that time I knew that he was calling me to 'lead' this group.

We actually all took turns 'leading' one chapter. I made it a point that I was as much of a participater as they were and I was by no means any wiser than they.

So my thoughts on your desire to lead this class? I believe that if you feel the Lord calling you in that direction you should listen to His calling. I would seek the input of someone who knows you well, but other than that, I wouldn't worry about your 'biblical skill set'. The Lord is using as an instrument and He will equip you to do what He is calling you to do.

I believe that it is our responsibility to follow where He is leading and it is His promise that He will carry us through to completion.

Thank you Vanessa . . .
Appreciate the linguistics info.
The group would not be about food, since as you know eating disorders are not about food and eating but about everything else. I think my concern regaring doing the group is . . . am I spiritually and biblically - theoretically sound to be able to do such a group.

I am a daily bible reader, in a life group/bible study that is scripturally based, taking a course on Acts and have begun reading commentaries on the different books of the bible.

I would like to combine my expertise professionally to look at/support/help ED individuals with a biblically based group. That word again.

This has been cogitating in my mind for a while and I wondering if God is trying to tell me something. This is a new thing to let go and let God and then listen to hear what He is saying. As well, I am working on the issue of God being in control and I am is servant. This is neww to me!
Your thougths

BTW-thank you Dee for writing this study. I think a lot of women struggle with this and I am so thankful for what God has been teaching me through it. I do not have a weight problem and have always been disciplined about eating and exercising, but my motivation for that has not been God-centered, and I want it to be. I hope to offer this study later on this year at our church because I have been challenged by it so much.

Vanessa-Thanks for your reply to my question yesterday. What you said makes sense and I found it helpful. I understood you to mean that any time we make a choice about a food item, the important thing is to check our heart to see what our motivation is for eating it--is it to make ourselves feel better or is it simply something we can enjoy for the moment and see as something God has provided for our enjoyment and be thankful for. I don't want to veer off into legalism on this issue.

I was involved in an ED group at a church of mine. The focus was NEVER on the food. It was on the love of God. Currently, I am in a bible study and we are reviewing the book 'Because He Loves Me: How Christ Transforms our Daily Life' by Elyse Fitzpatrick. I am finding that this applies to all issues that we struggle with. Personally, I would be more inclined to continue a study in grasping God's love than one that focuses (or the name refers to) food. I believe that every church should offer something like that. How exciting if the the Lord is calling you to help others in that way. BTW, 'biblically' is a word :).

Edited by author 01-14-2009 09:45 AM
I am a nurse in private practice (29yrs) treating eating disorders(Anorexia Nervosa, Bulimia Nervosa, Binge Eating Disorders and with all the concommittant issues of sexual abuse,depression, mother loss, substance abuse etc) . As well, I am a relatively new christian of 8 year duration.
 
I am interested in doing a support group (through my church) for ED individuals with a christian/spiritual bent. I am solidly scientifically, theoretically based as well as a very strong clinician. However, I am not so strong theoretically, biblicly. I do have contact with my colleagues at Remuda Ranch, a christian based treatment program in Arizona. I am in Toronto, Canada.

Any thoughts from any of you who had had experiences personally, professionaly, spiritually, biblicly (not sure that is a word).I have been intrigued by the postings of Vanessa and Beth.

As well, I am aware of groups that have taken place in the church that are weight loss, weight maintenance, and weight stabilization. That's not what I am interested in.

I'd like to hear from others.
Guided and stimulated by the Lord!

Edited by author 01-14-2009 06:45 AM
This is such a good discussion between Beth and Vanessa. Vanessa, I think you described this so beautifully -- His love casts out fear, and legalism, and truly sets us free. Thank you!
Dee

I do not believe that God is in His heaven with a list of foods that we are 'not allowed' to eat. This is not what is important to Him. He wants us to treat His temple with love. My understanding is the moderation occurs when we have surrendered our hearts, minds and bodies to Him. If we have all of these in alignment, then the moderation will come naturally. When we have a grasp on God's love for us and live our life in direct accordance to it, then our lives will fall into place. Of course, this will never be to perfection, but He is faithful to take us on that journey. Therefore, I try not to focus on what I shouldn't be eating, but what that state of my heart is in that moment. Just my thoughts--I hope this is encouraging.

Hi, I've been doing the moderation study for six weeks now and have really been blessed and encouraged by it. I do have one question though: Does walking in obedience to God in this area mean that we never eat anything other than what will nourish our body and we never eat unless we're hungry? For example, how about desserts? They occur at the end of a meal when we are not hungry, so does this mean that we are never to have sweets? Does it mean that we are not to ever have moderate serving of something snacky like chips? I just need some insight on this and would appreciate any comments you might have. Thank you.

Happy New Year to you Dee - thanks for blessing our lives!

Happy New Year to All my forum friends -- had to do two messages cause my big picture took all the room. I pray blessings on each of you for this year of 2009. May we be women of moderation because of increasing intimacy with our precious Jesus.

xoxoxoxo
Dee

Dee skiing with her youngest in the woods of Wisconsin at her cabin

As this year comes to a close I praise My Heavenly Father for connecting me with my sisters through this forum. Many times I cried out and you all prayed for me. One word that has been coming before me is HONOR. I pray that I will honor my God in everything I choose to do in 2009. I also pray that each one of us will not miss the marvelous daily blessings God loves to give us. Thank you Dee for the beautiful picture of the cardinal in the snow. It was 80 degrees here in South Georgia for Christmas. As always I thank God for you and my sisters on the forum. HAPPY NEW YEAR!

I agree with Julie. Perhaps that's why we exhorted in Scripture to repent and return to our first love doing the things we did when we first got saved and were on "fire" for the Lord. I echo Dee: may each of us be renewed in our spirit and shiner brighter than ever in 2009!! Much love to you all! ;-)

Edited by author 12-30-2008 06:06 AM
My daughter-in-law Julie is reading your great discussion and commented on how new Christians, who have far less Bible knowledge and perhaps maturity than she, bring her higher often because of their enthusiasm and dedication. May the Lord renew each of us in our first love for Him this year!
Dee

Thanks for all the participation!! Praying that many others will chime in as well. I love this!!!!!!!!! We truly need one another and I feel community on this forum.

This is a GREAT topic to discuss. I hope others will chime in here.
I believe you need a GREAT deal of discernment with this. There are those who just like to compete and have no desire to grow with you or try to keep you from growing. I believe with a lot of prayer and then listening to that still small voice , God will reveal HIS purpose. I've known some very mature christians who have no desire to come along those who have a desire and passion to grow and I have been in realtionships with those who really have no desire to grow with you and can keep you stagnate. But God has used EVERY situation to prune and mold me for HIS purpose. What are others thinking?

I would agree with Vanessa! I think most of it is all in the desire to grow - to be open - to be teachable. Two together can create synergy - new thoughts and new ideas. New ideas can spring from different thoughts - no two of us are exactly alike. We bring different experiences, we have different levels of growth in different areas. Though two of us may be on the "same" level spiritually our different experiences may shed light in different areas. We are different things to different people. To some, we may be a teacher, which also causes us to grow. And to some, we may be a student. And even to some others we may be both teachers and students. We each have something to offer each other. And with some people they may not want to grow, we offer our help, but then we move on - we must. So, I believe our "growth" isn't necessarily dependent on a person, but on seeking Him and moving forward in Him.

Thanks for the input Vanessa. Anyone else out there?

I would say that the other person being on the same level as you can help with growth or hinder. I believe that it has to do with the desire of the other person matching you are not. If both of you have a desire to grow in the Lord than you will bring each other along in that journey. And even if the two of you are on the same level, you may see things differently and help each other grow, but in different ways.

A blessed, merry Christmas to all! I have a question that I would like to receive input about: when it comes to growing in the Lord, can a person on the same level as you cause you to grow? My thinking is that others on your level can challenge and point things out to you that you may not see, but when it comes to growth it takes someone more mature than you to pull you up. Isn't it true that you cannot take anyone higher than you are?

You bless me! All the women on this forum bless me! Thank you and Merry Christmas!

I needed to hear that also!!!
  A lot of people in our church have been hurt so much by one another, it makes me cry!!!

Karen

Thank you anonymous.... I needed to hear about heaven as going home! Where friends won't fail us and WE won't fail others. God Bless you and Merry Christmas to all!

What is Day 13 of the Women of Moderation study? I didn't have time to do it this morning before work and didn't get to look...I don't know how to eat! :)

It's the very best news Dee! The love our hearts seek is found in Him! This morning I read John 14:1-7, "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

What struck me as I thought of Jesus talking to Thomas, I thought, just think, the God of the universe, this great big awesome Creator being would talk to us and not only talk to us but invite us to be with him - where he is. That in him, we have LIFE!

I heard someone say once, that going to heaven, for believers, is like going home. When I think of going home, I think of being loved, of being accepted, wanted, waited for...embraced..cared for...how could we not give him a response of love? One who loves us so much!!

Merry Christmas Dee! We love and appreciate you!

Edited by author 12-22-2008 06:16 AM

Though our sins are as scarlet, they are white as snow. I am having a white Christmas and I understand many of you are as well -- may it so remind us of this very good news. I love and appreciate you!
Merry Christmas! Dee

Sweet Josephine,
I'm thankful you have such a dear husband. I can tell you both know you are clinging too tightly to this friend, yet in your heart, are having trouble releasing her. I do pray that you will begin to long for a sweet intimacy with the Lord that will free you, and that you will also pursue other friendships. Often when we hold someone too tightly they want to get away, but if we let them go, they might come back. She might not as well, so I pray you'll pursue the Lord and other friendships. Perhaps my book, Falling in Love with Jesus might help you.
Warmly
Dee
Dee

Edited by author 12-15-2008 12:00 AM
Josephine,
I appreciate your honesty in regards to your dependency on friendship. It sounds like you have a lot of unmet needs in your life? I have dealt with these issues in my life. Through my 20's I was very dependent on a lady which eventually ended because I finally started to get better. But I had a lot of abuse in my past and neglect. I am not sure where you are coming from, but the book, Changes that Heal, really helped me to understand why I was the way I was and then to understand where was my heart and behaviors were taking me. Plus I had good Christian counseling to help me work through my self esteem and emotional painful issues...whatever it is that is triggering you to bend toward this sin, Pray that God will make a way for your heart to be solely His...:0) Karen

After reading Dee's Friendship of Women and We Are Sister, I found that I am a big dependent on friendship. I get very annoyed if a particular friend doesn't call me, I get really jealous if she hangs out with other friends, and I even keep thinking why when her tone doesn't sound very enjoyed from our conversation. I think I'm too sensitive. I know this is not healthy both physically (because I always get headache when I think too much of it)and spiritually, and I understand that these unsecured feelings shouldn't be filled by her but by God alone, but I just can't stop it. I pray all the time that God would bring me out of it, but I feel like I don't have the patience to wait. I want God to do a miracle right this moment to show and affirm me that she values me as her BEST friend very much. I don't talk to anyone about these feelings at all, but my husband, as he's seen me suffered headache from all the unhealthy thoughts. Sometimes I feel it's really unfair to him. He never complains, and always tries to help me, but he does get frustrated and tired sometimes, I guess. What can I do in order to put this friendship that I treasure very much back on the healthy track?

"When God's People Let You Down" by Jeff VanVonderen
and
(google it and it should come up under amazon...)
"Changes that Heal" by Dr. Henry Cloud
are wonderful books that I think can be good reads on the topics of being of the past discussions.
It is so refreshing to know others are aware of the hurts, devastating sinful acts that occur in the body and how God wants to use these times for us to draw even closer to His Heart...:0)

Dee~
Thanks for suggesting the books. I just picked them up today and will start one of them this evening. I truly appreciate you taking time out to respond to my email.
Thanks so much and God Bless You,

I was thinking today, that everything we see beautiful in others is just a reflection of Him - the love we felt from someone, the encouragement, the gentleness, all are reflections of Him and just think how altogether lovely He is - He's the greatest love, the greatest encourager, the one who is always for us - the depths of His love, I do not think we can fathom. But He is - altogether lovely! Thank you ladies - you have blessed my life!

Thank you Dee and Vanessa, I appreciate your input. I know that God is faithful and I know he does help us to love. God is good - that is His very nature!

Molly - thanks for your dear comments!
Chicago and Vanessa -- you are both so dear and sensitive. I think Vanessa is right about the limitations of electronic communication. I even address that in the revised Friendships of Women book. I've learned to put smiley faces because, for example, the response, "Fine" or "Great" can be sarcastic or friendly, and a Great! :-) with a smiley face helps clarify that. It's a new world - isn't it!

Blessings :-)
Dee

Vanessa, You did not offend me. I am sorry if I sounded harsh, I didn't mean to.

Hello all! I'm new on here and have just begun the study with 2 other women. I'm reading Dee's book for the 2nd time in addition to the study. I read the first book after hearing about in on Focus on the Family about 10 yrs ago. I didn't make it thru the first chapter of the book without tears! It's better than I remember it being. I thought I'd look Dee up on the internet and see what kind of site she has. I'd love to find a good pen pal or 2 :>)

Dear Chicago,

I am so sorry if I implied that your situation was in any way easy. That was not my intention at all!!! Please forgive me if that is how it sounded. (Such is the downside of electronic communication). What you have and are going thru does sound very difficult and I am sure that it has turned parts of your world upside down. What I wanted to do was encourage you that God is faithful to us and one day we may be able to understand His plan. Again, I apologize for any offense. I will try to be more careful with my words.

Truthfully, it's been like a nightmare - like you wish you would wake up and it would all be a dream. The pastor was not only my pastor but my brother. It's very easy when you are not involved to say how easy it should be. And it's different when you are looking through the long telescope. This has had tremendous impact on my church, my family, myself. God is faithful to be sure, but you do not see things the same way after that. I wish you would. What you thought was safe is not safe. And people are flawed to be sure - it is kinda like not being safe anywhere - except maybe before God. God knows your heart and I am confident of that.

I would concur with Dee. Especially regarding not being shocked. I understand what Chicago is saying about it being inevitable that we will have a certain amount of hurt associated with the event. A lifelong friend of my husband's and his wife moved here from Europe 4 years ago. They lived with us for a year and we (the wife) and I became very close. In addition, it was so great to have another couple that we could both enjoy. Well, we moved to Chicago from St. Louis about 2 years ago and then in July they got divorced. I can't tell you how many conversations I had with her and prayers I prayed that they wouldn't get divorced (I believe her motives are selfish). But now that it's done my prayers are that the Lord give me the strength to love her. Additionally, it was God's will that her husband move in with us (he has been friends with my husband for almost 30 years). As you can see that is a little bit of an awkward position. But God is good. Anyway, I don't want to digress from my point, which is that I have seen God give me the strength beyond what I thought was possible even though I wholeheartedly disagreed with the divorce and it hurt to lose our 'couple friend'.

Chicago -- let me try to answer your questions -- and I welcome input from others:
Why I wouldn't be likely to make a lifetime commitment to a friend again: God doesn't ask that, as He does in marriage, and He takes vows very seriously. There are implicit commitments that you should keep with friends, because you are, indeed, knit together, but you don't need to seal it with a vow. (I write much more about this in the book, The Friendships of Women.)

Why I said we shouldn't be surprised when others let us down: I understand the shock of betrayal, and yet even with that, because of what we know about human nature, we should realize how depraved we are, how easily we fall into looking to our own needs, and how easily we could do that same unless we realize our desperate and continual need for Jesus to help us walk in repentance and truly love Him and lean on Him.

Dee, I remember my other question! On one of your programs you mentioned we shouldn't be surprised when others let us down - there are many smaller offenses people do against us but sometimes they are much larger and I can't say that I have not been surprised - for example when one of our pastors left his wife to be another woman, or when a friend of mine after over 30 years of marriage left her husband - both, I held in high esteem not even entering that thought in my mind - so, to say I was surprised, would even be an understatement - I was both shocked and hurt in both instances. Should we not be? I guess, I really don't understand that statement. To not be surprised because we are all capable of anything, I think I understand - but sometimes I am blown away. Can you help me to understand that a little better? Because really, both of those instances were quite devastating not only to me, but to many others. Sort of like a bomb exploding, leaving deadly aftermath - a bomb you never expected to come.

Dear Dee - thank you so much for all these studies - Melinda, Anita - thank you, thank you small group on air, thank you ladies of the forum - what an amazing group of women you are! I echo what other women have said here - how we really appreciate it, and how great it's been! Thank you ladies! Dee, I can't always listen to the program on Wednesdays so I go back and listen to it when I can. I had a few things I was wondering about. I know in one of the past programs you were talking about life long friends (soul-mates) and maybe you didn't use that word, but someone you have made a lifetime commitment to and I think you said - (if I understand it right) that you wouldn't do that again. Did I understand that correctly? And if I did - why did you feel that? The other thing I was curious about - and this is not from the study necessarily but just a question I have. (I have even a question after this if I can think of it again!) :)
But my question is: I know this woman and we have never been "close" - but recently she lost her father and I feel like this connection to her - like her "spirit" is reaching out to mine - have you ever experienced anything like that? This does not happen to me often, but every once in a while it does. Like some sort of spiritual connection.

Well, I wish I could think of that other question, but if I do later :) - I'll write it. Thank you so much for answering these questions - I value your input.

Misha --
I'm not surprised the enemy attacked you -- you really had moved to the front of the battle! Be encouraged that God used you mightily, and that your sisters, including me, are praying for you. Greater is He -- and we love you!
Dee

Thank you ALL for sharing. The program and these post have ministered to me in ways I can't even begin to articulate. I came into the study midway through, not even wanting to do it, but kept getting pulled by the Spirit to give it a try! WOW! is all I can say. I didn't know the amount of hurt and mistrust I have held deep inside. And talk about running away! That's me.
In a situation right now trying to determine which direction to go. Will let God be my guide. Thank you for being women of such depth and authenticity. Those in the group and on the blogs. I have seen my story and situations come up many times in the blogs. God has done AMAZING things in my heart through this study! I have 2 teenage girls and I am also using insights from this study to help them grow in healthy relationships.
THANK YOU!!!
God Bless

I want to share how God spoke to me today through your program. I posted a couple of weeks ago about the get-acquainted tea I had for the women on my block. I was planning to host a cookie exchange in early December to continue building on these relationships. Also, my husband and I were brainstorming ideas to reach out to the men as well. In addition, I spoke briefly at a ladies coffee in my church to encourage other women to reach out to their neighbors and I offered to come alongside them to give kitchen and spiritual support. So far, three women have stepped forward in faith.

While all this was going on, attacks started coming from every side, several of which completely blindsided me. Depression began to build and this very morning as I was driving to work I just gave up emotionally. I felt I couldn't do life anymore. I felt worthless and decided it was foolish to try and have these events. Who was I to reach out to anyone?

Just then my cell phone rang. My friend Ruth had heard your program yesterday and was calling to tell me that you had mentioned me by my nickname Misha and had read my post on the air. She told me that Dee, Melinda and Anita said what an encouragement I had been to them. A chill went down me as I realized that God was speaking to me in my pain through your program and my friend.

I've just finished listening to your program today. Thank you Dee, Melinda, Anita and Ruth for your encouraging words. God has revealed that in His strength I can continue to walk down the path that He has set before me and will stop trying to look further down that path than He has revealed. Please pray for me.

In His Service, For His Glory,
Michaelle (Misha)

Dear Seeking Insight,

I was wondering if you could be more specific on what you are seeking insight for. Do you want to know how to apologize again? Do you want to know how to not offend her again? My concern is that you are feeling guilt and remorse over something that has already been dealt with. Granted, the initial apology was not worded the best and a 2nd may be warranted. But I believe after that, it's time to leave it to the Lord. And, of course, this is easier said than done. It's hard for us to see those that we love suffer in any way. And when we were possibly the cause of that suffering it makes it worse. Another thing that popped out at me was the fact that she won't tell you specifically want offended her. Personally, this makes me wonder if there really is an offense. If you can't articulate (esp after 4 years) what has happenned, then I wonder if it's really an issue.

This is a tough one. I have been here before. Ultimately and thankfully, we are all in God's care and he is so faithful. He carries us along during these times. So remember that you are in His protective arms.

Runner47

I love your questions. Hope others will weigh in on them, for they are so good. They show a depth of insight into our depravity and into our lack of confidence that God loves us -- something we don't want to see and often therefore cannot. We all have these feelings, so it is great you articulated them. It is soooo tempting to gossip about a person who has hurt you. The only way we can stop sinning (whatever it is) is to ask ourselves what is more important to us than God, and allow God to take that place. Often, with gossip, it is the approval of man.

I am praying you will do some studies that help you understand the depth of God's love for you. Gospel Transformation through World Harvest Mission is a good one. You might be blessed by Falling in Love with Jesus which I did with Kathy Troccoli. Pray the Psalms. You are so loved -- and once you grasp that, you will be able to better handle the sinfulness of people -- for, in truth, people will continually hurt you, for people are sinners. You may have had some particularly wounded people in your life, which is all the more reason to sink your roots deeper into the One who will never betray you. Confidence in His love helps us give grace to others.

Thanks so very much for your vulnerability. I pray you hear from others who care.

Seeking Insight -- hope others will weigh in with this dear woman too.
I'd give it one more try, with the new knowledge you have, and then, if it is ineffective, lay it down before the Lord. I am so proud of you to be willing to try, for it takes humility. I would send her a handwritten note that said something like:

Dear
I heard a program this week that convicted me and helped me to see how poorly I apologized when I said, "If I did something to offend you..." the if wipes out the apology.

I can see you were really hurt, and not only that, that I have repeatedly hurt you. I care about you. Once I felt we were like sisters. While I realize that may not be possible to restore, I would be so thankful if you would give me a chance to really listen to you, so that I could truly apologize without any excuses.

Could we possibly meet someplace for a little while? You name the place, the time. I will be there and thankful for the chance.



Then, if she agrees. Listen. Accept ownership. Don't give excuses. She may, indeed, have played a part - but don't bring that up. Just own your own stuff. She may choose to write you instead, in which you should also listen, repent, and then leave the ball in her court. Or she may refuse, in which case you will know you have done everything you can do to be at peace with her.

I'm proud of you.
Dee

Kellie -- There's 13 weeks in the guide as well. HOw fun you are doing this in Alaska!
Dee

Edited by author 11-13-2008 02:25 AM
Greetings from Alaska! We will be starting this bible study using the book and study guide very soon. My question is: How many weeks of study are there in the study guide. I need to know so that we can plan out the calendar. The main book has 13 chapters, but i don't want to assume that the study guide does as well. If someone wouldn't mind checking in their guide and posting back, i'd really appreciate it! We are so excited to seek God's help in the improvement of relationships with other women.

Thanks so so much!

how do you get over someone saying hurtful things like "I really don't want to be your friend anymore," or how this same person twists things around so that it looks like I am the one who is at fault? How do I keep from not gossiping about this person in hopes that someone will be on my side? How do I get out of this isolation w/others after being hurt too many times? How do I get over thinking i'm always the one being victimized?

Hi Ladies, I have a siutation, and I'm just looking for a little insight. Here it is: I had a situation where I offended a friend (I don't know how), we never talked about the situation. I tried to apologize right after the situation occurred (within 30 minutes I called her on the phone), but after today message I realize where I messed up. I started my apology with "if I've offended you, I apologize." This did not go over well. The friend went on to say that this was not the first time that I'd done this to her. I asked what I had done but I never received an answer. I tried to apologize again (in person which was very difficult for me) I was met with hostility and told "I thought you were my friend." This was at least four years ago and our relationship is still strained even thought she said she forgave me. I apologized because could see and fell in my heart that she was hurt. But after the second apology I believe that my heart was hardened. I have prayed on this situation and asked to Lord to show me what I did wrong. I'm not sure if he's revealed it to me and I'm too stubborn to accept the answer or is he is just silent on the issue. This was a person that I considered close enough to be my sister, I could not understand how she thought that I intentionally would want to cause her heartship. How do I mend my heart so that I can be a better friend?

How do I say no to myself and learn to wait?

How do I know when I jump past someone's boundaries and when I should move in?

How do I be a friend that helps a friend? How do I let a friend help me?

Edited by author 11-08-2008 12:07 PM
Teach us how to take off our "masks" and be real with one another. Teach us how to love - not just the "good and lovable". Teach us how to have "eyes" like his eyes. Teach us how to have a heart like his. These would be the questions that I would want to know. Teach me to be real - who to trust? Who is trustworthy? What do we do when we have trusted and they are no longer trustworthy - how do we handle that. How do we have a balance between being a missionary or a mission field - because we are all at times both. Help us because we need help. Christ, himself, and the "body of Christ" should be such healing instruments. Teach us how to lay our lives down for another.

God is so awesome "unknown". I like what I heard once - we take a step toward Him - He runs to us! What a great compassionate God he is!

way to move from victim mentality to survivor mentality!!!
that is great...Keep on keeping on...

Karen

Hello to Dee and all the ladies of the forum,

Thank you one million times over. I appreciate all of the encouraging words of comfort and support. I agree. I need help and a lot of it. I haven't been on this site in a fews days because I've been so hungry for more of God. After writing that email, I decided I was ready to fight for what belongs to me. I decided that I was willing to do what was necessary in order for me to live a life of peace and wholeness. I've been praying and studying more than I ever have. I'm grateful for the hunger I'm experiencing. It's changing my life.

I'm on my way. I thank you for your prayers. I am truly in a new place. I have a lot of work to do, but at least I can say TODAY I AM WILLING TO DO THE WORK! I don't have the "friend" that I long for. But I'm open to making myself friendly and working towards not be so suspicious of everyone.

Thank you for your program. Thank you for this forum. It is having immeasurable impact on women around the nation.

All the best,

Edited by author 11-06-2008 12:53 AM
That sounds good to me...I will be a deep friend to those who want one...
kayhay33@yahoo.com

Blessings,

Karen

That is a GREAT idea. I love that you are touching on this. It's such a deep need in our world today: I think we are just beginning to see how profound our need is for deep, safe, authentic, lasting friendships. I for one have spent too many years wearing Teflon - loving friends at arms length and keeping my heart protected while busying myself with different activities and figuring that friendships of substance were not only rare, but a luxury that I didn't have time or energy for.
It's true that my primary energies needed to be reserved for my husband and children, but in this season of my life, nearly empty-nested, I am enjoying some really refreshing friendships and would love to see them go deeper. But that "Teflon" principle still comes into play, where I find it much EASIER to keep that protective coating there and avoid the hard path of
vulnerability. I would love to see y'all tackle this, and am so encouraged to hear it being talked about so openly among you.
Thanks so much for your ministry. I usually enjoy your program, but this one hits me where I'm at and I can hardly wait for every Wednesday!!
Blessings,
-L

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 6:12 PM, QT - Anita Lustrea <
qtopic-42-NaqvERXZLMj@quicktopic.com> wrote:

>
< replied-to message removed by QT >

Sounds awesome Anita!

Melinda and I were talking today and thinking that "after" the Friendships of women series is over that we'll connect with Dee and plan a separate program on how to go deeper in friendships...how to develop them, how to be authentic, etc...

How does that sound? In fact, if you have any specific questions about that, feel free to put them on the forum and I'll put them in a folder and use them as we prepare for a program like that. Most likely in January.

I think that's great Anita! What I would wonder about is how to make deeper friendships - I don't know if people are like me but I have alot of "friends", but maybe one I would go to if I ever needed anything, and that one is not even close in proximity. Thanks for listening to these responses.

And Dee, thank you, thank you, thank you.. It's been neat! All these different forums, talking with people you may not even know - Christian women! - that's pretty great. Thank you Dee - thank you for opening these forums - thank you for making yourself available. You are a refreshing spirit - thank you so much!

All recordings of every Midday Connection program can be listened to in their archives at www.middayconnection.org under Past Programs. They have the entire year posted. I use it often.

Absolutely correct answer msheartsong.
Thanks for your graciousness.

Next month I will have available a resource for helping with women's friendships: It's the Friendship Retreat in a Box. More details coming!

Dee

Anita, Chicago and all,
I think that it's a great idea to teach us how to become friends God's way. Will this topic be addressed soon? Or did I miss it already? I was not able to listen to today's (11/05/08) program in its entirety. If it's been already addressed, could a summary be posted on Dee's or Midday's website?

Dee,
Thanks for your explanation and the list of corrections! No apology needed because we all make mistakes and so please accept our thanks for the clarification. Personally, I believe it would have been better for them to come to Bethlehem because of the mentoring and care that they would benefit getting from Naomi and what better place to be to learn about God and accept Him as their God than with the people of God. Is that the correct answer?

msheartsong: The reason your group was so confused was because of a typo (for which I deeply apologize) in the question. The word "not" should be removed from the second question, so it reads, "Why, from an eternal perspective, might it have been better for them to come to Bethlehem?" Now -- see if you can answer it and let me know.

I'm so sorry. There are seven (gasp) typos in this study, for which I am so sorry. They will be fixed in the next edition, my publisher promises! I've attached those typos.

Dee

Friendships of Women Bible Study Corrections

There are 7 typos that were not caught in copy-editing, and I am so sorry. You shouldn’t have to go through a guide and make corrections, and I and my publisher ask your forgiveness that you need to take a moment to do this.
We will be careful not to repeat this. Dee Brestin

Page 60, first sub-question under question 1C—Genesis reference should be “(Gen. 19:30-37)”

Page 65, question 12B. Eliminate the word “not” in the second question. It completely reverses the meaning of the question and will confuse you!

Page 73, first line under Prayer Time head—“question 21” should be “question 31”

Page 85, first line under Prayer Time head—“question 23” should be “question 24”

Page 99, question 2, line 4—Genesis reference should be “Genesis 44:19-31”

Page 102, question 8—Ephesians reference should be “Ephesians 6:12”

Page 126, question 9E—Proverbs reference should be “Proverbs 10:18”

Last Monday we had our study group meeting (we are just on chapter 5-Naomi: A Female Job) and more than a few of us were stuck on question 12B on page 65. The entire question reads: What reasons does she (Naomi) give for sending them (Ruth & Orpah)back? Why, from an eternal perspective, might it have been better not to let them come to Bethlehem? What fears, do you think, might have clouded her thinking? The part we were stuck on was: Why, from an eternal perspective, might it have been better not to let them come to Bethlehem? We'd like to get Dee's, Midday study group or anyone else's input on this. Thanks!

I know how to make friends and to keep them. But it is work and I think it is the process that can get messy at times. We had this conversation at church last night. What does it take to be a healthy and faithful friend. One of the topics was learning to set healthy boundaries and to respect one another. To not be judgmental and yet a loving truth teller...Since I am a mental health therapist, people usually flock to me wanting counseling or run because they think I am going to analyze them. So my sisterhood is a mix of all stages and ages in life.

A couple of you responded to the thought about "learning to become friends". Maybe we'll talk about that on the next Friendships of women program. It think we struggle today knowing how to have conversations, and if you can't communicate well, that contributes to not being able to develop and maintain friendships. Food for conversation!

Unknown Thank you for sharing your heart with the forum. I am currently "riding out a storm" in my life and the only thing that has kept me sane is my staying in the Word of God. I have been in the Book of Psalms since January of this year and it has been the "balm of Gilead" to my besieged soul. I encourage you to fill your mind with praise music and praise scripture. I know what it is liked to be attacked with suicidal thoughts. When those thoughts come tell them that you know they are not from God because our God is a God of LIFE! I will be lifting you up my sister. You are truly loved.

Yes, it would be wonderful for people to learn how to be better friends...
I think we all can improve in loving better and being a good friend...
My best friend is someone I have known for 22 years...we are buddies for life.:0)
Karen

Edited by author 11-02-2008 07:35 AM
Anita, I thought you brought up a good point about learning how to be a friend. I would think that that would even be a good idea for churches to have a class on how to be a friend. If as Christians, we are to be known by the love we have for one another - I think learning how to be a good friend would be invaluable. I know when my love tank is empty and what I need is a touch from someone, I go see my mother who lives many miles away - kudos to her to be that kind of mother - and my mother is wonderful - but wouldn't it be great to get that from one another. I don't know what I will do when my mother is no longer there. I have many "friends" but none that love me that much. Anita, I appreciated your comments. Karen, I appreciated your comments also. But wouldn't this be a great thing - to learn how to be a friend?

Edited by author 11-02-2008 01:56 AM
We are only made of dust...no one will ever be perfect in relationships.
The Bible says, "For all have sinned and have come short of the glory of God...No One Should Boast, No not One...For by Grace are You Saved through faith...etc...I am thinking He knew we needed a Savior because he knew how messy we could be as people. I have had some really close relationships that have gone by the wayside...I have shared my heart, only to later get tromped on and even people of infamous stature and trustworthy credentials. They took things wrong or didn't gather all the facts or did no longer care about the relationship and vice versa with me. I have to confess when I feel like I am being preached at or judged, I run...I grew up in a legalistic environment where sexual sin was behind the closet door...so it triggers me. I have had some really well known Christian leader friendships with women and they put on this act that they know everything about God and the Bible, or at least these that I know did. They would even brag about their hospitality and heart for hurting women...yada yada yada...but when it came down to commitment and patience, now that is another story.
My expectations have been lowered, but I do not think God wants me to close myself off to other women. Each friendship has taught me some things in life about myself, God and others. Things that I will treasure for life. However, I am more careful about who I talk to and what I say when I do open up. A great book that may be of some help is, "When God's People Let You Down", Jeff VanVonderen

He has failed miserably too, but he is a good man with a wealth of insight on how hurts in the church and subtle power of abuse impacts us all...

Blessings,

Karen

To me, relationships are like jumping off a cliff.
My father used to tell the story about the young boy whose father put him on top of the refrigerator and said, c'mon son, jump! I'll catch you! So, the young son works up all his courage, and finally - jumps.. as he jumps, the father moves out of the way and lets the young son fall to the floor, and he says son, that'll teach you - never trust anybody!

The counselor asks you to "trust" them and tell them all about you and all the while you are not suppose to feel any closeness to this person. I cannot not feel. And why would I want to share with a stranger? And "friends" are worse. They say you could trust them. They say they love you but in the end they are not really true friends and you have given them portions of your heart. At least with the counselor you know in the back of your mind - they are not paid to care! I've been to a Christian counselor and I've also had friends. Truthfully, it's just really hard to be hopeful. I'm not a "downer" person and if you met me you would think actually, I'm very upbeat. But in trusting people again, I don't even know that I can. As I said, it's like jumping off a cliff..

I've loved reading the interchanges on the forum. I've been thinking of my own experience 10 years ago when I hit bottom and needed to talk to someone and realized I had no friends. I had plenty of acquaintances....but no real friends. Christian counseling, for me, at the time, was life saving. I learned how to be in a deeper relationships for a lengthy period of time thanks to a Christian counselor. I was able to learn how to develop "friends" who became deeper friends over time. For I while I went for periodic "tune ups" when I couldn't figure something out, or when me and my friends couldn't understand something and work it through. I haven't been to a counselor in a number of years....but wouldn't hesitate to go should the need arise. I do believe the body of Christ is where relationship needs to happen....but I needed some help to figure out "how" relationships actually worked.

I'm so thankful for all of you who share on this forum in such a compassionate way.

Anita

Touche' Karen! I think your right on!
Very thoughtful response!

Dear Unknown,
I totally understand where you are at, because I have been there with the sexual abuse as a child and also trying to find someone in the church to embrace me and to be my friend. You need both, support from friends and a therapist. I don't know anyone who would want to go through cancer treatment alone. The physician plays a role as a doctor, not a friend, even though they can be friendly. Far too often the church wants to farm people out to counseling and then isolate the wounded or they are trying to do therapy when they do not know what they are doing. In my experience you want to be careful in selecting your friends, but not isolating yourself. Take baby steps and pray for a friend that knows and understands or who is willing to learn what you are going through, but does not take you on as a project. It is more common than I would like to state for women, they can treat others like a mission project, rather than a friend.
I do not know where you are from but there is an organization called S.A.L.T.S. that may have some resources for you. They train people to have groups in their church for those who have been sexually abused.
Sexual Abuse Leadership Training Seminar is what it stands for...but the actual ministry is called, Open Hearts Ministry...see the link website...

http://openhearts.gospelcom.net/salts/

I really hope this helps some...I am encouraged that you reached out on this forum, that is a brave step and a sign that you have hope and courage to get you through this and also you are coming to Christian women which is huge. I applaud you for this step and want to encourage you to keep on keeping on with your journey through healing. It does get better even though it doesn't feel it all the time or right now. Jesus is right there with you and He loves your tremendously...

Take care my friend,

Karen

Hi Vanessa – that’s an interesting question and I’m not sure I’m qualified to answer it! To be honest, I’ve never really thought about it before.

As you probably gathered from the on air discussion, my thoughts are not well formed on this topic of soulmates. To clarify, I had initially thought that a soulmate relationship (or being “one” with someone) was reserved for marriage alone (based on Gen 2:24, Mark 10:8, Ephesians 5:31). What I didn’t say was that you HAD to be soulmates with your husband (or wife for that matter). I was more asking the question that IF you were to have a soulmate, doesn’t the bible ask us to exercise that soulmate relationship within the confines of a marriage. Dee pointed out that becoming “one flesh” was certainly reserved for marriage alone and Anita added that the David and Jonathon friendship explicitly mentioned being one in “soul”. So to answer your question: what is my opinion on women who are NOT soulmates with their husbands? – after reading Dee’s reply to your post that: “it’s a blessing if your mate is a soulmate, but if he's not, you can pray it will mature to that -- and if not, be content” is probably the wisest answer and something for me to also think about.

Thank you Dee for I certainly do not mean any disrespect to you. I think you are a wise and understanding woman. I am not one of those people who do not believe in physicians, medicine or counselors. God, I believe has given them to us to be helped, to be sure. There are times when I believe it is good as Vanessa said, some people may be helped by counselors, and I am sure there are many who have been. But I also believe that we are the body of Christ, and Christ dwells within us. He can use us to reach and touch our world.

I'm so thankful for those of you who are respectfully disagreeing with me. One of the marks of a Christian is to be able to disagree yet do it in a loving and respectful way. I am thankful if this forum can be an honest expression of various points of view while maintaining the love of Christ.

I know there are many in the body of Christ who are opposed to physicians, medicines, and counselors. And surely Jesus is our Great Physician, the best medicine, and our Wonderful Counselor. Yet He also said the sick need a physician. I certainly welcome differences of opinion on this forum. Thanks so much for expressing them in love.

Dee

I would have to agree with Known by God. Christian counseling was not helpful to me at all. It was thru the faithful direction of those that loved me that I was able to move beyond the pain. And it was thru God's divine intervention. Thank you for bringing up this point. I know that counseling does work for some, but not for others.

Dee, I would respectfully, have to disagree with you. I think Christian counseling has a place, but it is not the only thing that people like us need. The problem as I see it, is that Christian counseling sees you as a problem to be solved. What we really need is relationship. It's the power of love that transforms us, Christ's love in someone else. Is the Christian counselor the only one who can help? We limit ourselves I believe. God is able to work through ordinary people and transform lives. You might not have all the answers - but God working through you knows. Why do we push it off on someone else always? Who will reach out -that is the question? Who will believe for someone else? Who even cares enough?

Dear "Unknown" - you are not unknown - you are known by God. Known and loved. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I have had similiar abuse and the one thing I can tell you is hang onto Jesus. When no one understands, and no one knows - He knows - He understands - He is a faithful friend who will never ever leave you. He will love you until the end. He is for you!
I also find it difficult to trust people and to really feel loved by them. I'm not even sure if that part works anymore, it's pretty damaged, but I do know to hang onto Him.

Vanessa -
Good questions!
I think it is a blessing if your mate is a soulmate, but if he's not, you can pray it will mature to that -- and if not, be content. I think "perennials" are often soulmates, but not necessarily. They all have value -- but it does seem that if your soul is knit to another and you love them as you love yourself, that's a pretty valuable friendship.
Thanks for contributing to the forum.
Dee

I have a question for Kim that is in the small group on WMBI for the Friendships of Women bible study. I hope that she checks this forum. I was listening today to part 7 and heard her say that she thought a soulmate was only in marriage and she didn't think women could be soulmates. I find this very interesting. My question is what is your opinion about women who are NOT soulmates with their husbands? I would also be interested in Dee's opinion on this. Do you think that women SHOULD be soulmates with their husbands?

My 2nd question is for Dee. In part 7 of the bible study you referred to 'annuals and perennials'. Since you say in your book that the pain associated with losing a soulmate is akin to a divorce. Therefore, isn't it painful when we lose an 'annual or perennial'?

I would appreciate your thoughts.

Unknown, it broke my heart yesterday to hear the pain that you have suffered and it's make is so much more difficult when there are trust issues. I personally do not know the pain of abortion, but, I too, have suffered sexual abuse. I want to encourage you with what helped me get thru--God is faithful, God is faithful, God is faithful. Also I love Corinthians 4:8-12 "8We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; 9persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. 10We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. 11For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that his life may be revealed in our mortal body. 12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you." Sister, I feel your pain. It is a journey that I have been on for over 20 years now. And even though I had many moments in which I couldn't believe the pain would ever lessen, it did. You are in my prayers.

Dear Unknown, you who have been the victim of so much hurt. I am writing, and I pray other sisters will too. You have been so abused. Often childhood sexual abuse makes one vulnerable to promiscuity which makes one vulnerable to choosing abortion, to not trusting. It is like you are in quicksand struggling to get out, and you won't, without a helping hand. I am so praying you will get Christian counseling. I think the best option is a professional Christian counselor. Focus on the Family is very good about helping you find one in your area, or looking at aacc.net (american association of christian counselors) I'd also recommend inquiring at your local crisis pregnancy center for abortion recovery groups. I think your abuse may be too great for counseling by a pastor, but some churches have Christian counselors. Of course you have trouble trusting -- but there are those who will not abuse you. I pray for God to guide you to some good help -- and I so thank you for writing.

Pray for this sister, sisters!
Dee

These are my thoughts to the woman from St. Charles -- others may want to encourage her. The pain of the demise of a soulmate friendship is intense. In this case, please know it wasn't personal. Because of her rejection of Christ, you have become the "fragrance of death" to her. (For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing, 16 to one a fragrance from death to death, to the other a fragrance from life to life. 2 Corinthians 2:15)

But oh! How I want to encourage you. One day, as you continue to grow in Him, I believe He will give you dear friends who will go with you into eternity, who will be able to share so much more deeply about the things that matter. For now, I suspect He wants you to cling to Him. It has often been in the lonely times of my life that I have drawn so much nearer to Him, the Friend who is closer than a brother, who will never forsake me.

Love to you -- praying for your heart.
Dee

Hello,

I've survived unthinkable sexual abuse, sexual promiscuity, mental diseases such as clinical depression and suicidal ideations, I lived through domestic abuse and three abortions. I love God with my whole heart and am going through the healing process.

As a single woman who has walked away from 3 engagements, I'm finding it hard to trust any woman. I always feel like someone is out to get me. I've been praying for my mind an about being suspicious, as well as developing healhty emotions. I know I've grown tremendously but I'm not where I need or want to be. How can I grow in me and begin to trust women and develop healthy friendships with at least one woman...to start.

Thanks for your response.

Please dont use my name, i had a soul mate and it was an incredible feeling to be loved and accepted just for who you are. I remember others would comment on this close friendship. We shared lots, and did lots of family things, and as I grew closer to God and God was calling me out of the group I tried to witness and give each of them my new found joy, and most of all my soul mate, but like all things Good things dont last when we but our hope in people they will always let you down. Slowly she started to keep distance from me, because the more I spoke of God and where he was taking me, I found that myself and my husband were no longer invited to the functions going on... it hurt for a long time but i found that God took me out and gave me a derbe (like the Aposlte Paul) and grew me into a deeper relationship with Him, and prepared me for His work. I continue to pray for her and her family and the rest of the group, and it truly was like a divorce a spiritual divorce. And after 3 years i slowly began to open up to other friendships, I don't know, if I will ever have one like the past, but I do know that God brings you other relationships that I will deposit into there lives as they deposit into mine. Would I say it was worth the pain of septeration, yes, it was God is so good, and brings others to you.
I love your broadcast it is so encouraging to so many, and God use your words to speak to so many. God bless you.

Misha! What an inspiration you are! Thanks so for sharing that story!
Dee

Thank you so much Dee!

Lynda

-------------- Original message --------------
From: QT - Dee Brestin <qtopic-42-NaqvERXZLMj@quicktopic.com>

< replied-to message removed by QT >

Oops, I put one of my nicknames on the post.

Well, I took a risk and reached out to my neighbors this past Sunday by inviting the 16 women on my block for a get-acquainted tea. My husband and I just moved to our new home in August and other than waving and talking briefly on the sidewalk, we haven't really met anyone. Six women came and we had a wonderful time. I was so scared that no one would want to come but they all said they were grateful that somebody took the initiative. Because I was nervous, two of my friends also attended the tea to be spiritual and kitchen support. One of those two friends strongly bonded with my Jewish neighbor and they plan to get together again this week after exchanging numbers and addresses. Another neighbor stayed afterwards and shared how lonely she has been and expressed her desire to spend more time together. Another neighbor offered to help plan the next event. And one of the friends who came as spiritual support has asked me to help her plan and attend an event to reach out to her neighbors. The Lord is so good!

Dear Lynda,
So much on your plate! Caring for a disabled son and going through motherhood all over again. Yes, I will pray for you for a friend, for a good church -- hoping you could get out to a good Bible study. I think this might be a drive for you, but I know they have terrific ministries at Christ Presbyterian off of Hickory Blvd. (http://www.christpres.org )
Or, they might be able to direct you to something up North.

Let me pray:

Father, I know You see Linda, hear her cry, and care so much. Please guide her into a great small group fellowship, and give her some support through sisters. I ask this in Jesus Name.


Love to you
Dee

I'm very lonely and do not have any close friends. I'm so overwhelmed with day to day issues at home that I don't have time for me. My husband is disabled and we adopted my grandson last year who is 11 years old. His parents just abandoned him and I couldn't turn my back on him. He's been with us for 6 years. I work full time. I just need someone to pray for me that I will find some friends that I can share with, pray with, etc. I'm 55 years old and love the Lord. We live outside of Nashville, TN. I feel I really want to help others as well. If anyone is in the Nashville area or north of Nashville and have a women's study group please contact me thru this forum.


Thanks

First I loved the message today about taking risks, but I kept coming back to the question what happens when you take those risks and get rejected? Then I read Dore Price's message from the 9th of October and it touched me so much. If things are going well in my life and then my spiritual life is good, but then if not I am down on myself. How people act toward me so effect how I look at myself. Right now I am praying so hard about something and it's not happening. I loved how Dori wrote that I need to fill my soul with the word and KNOW God is working in my life and in all my prayers. He is going ahead of me fighting my battles and working my life in the plans he has for me. So, Dori thank you for your message, how true it was and how I need to remind myself how God is working in my life and to rejoice how he sees me not man.

Thank you. I will use caution. I do have family and other people in my life but you know there is nothing like having a group of friends that are at the same place you are.

Yes, soulmates are hard to find. I would caution a search and pursuit for that one person, because it's likely the Lord has place others in your life who can offer a collective accountability and encouragement on different levels. We can miss out on His purposes in putting different people in our lives if we narrow our focus in our determination to find that one soulmate.

On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 1:33 PM, QT - Sheila C <
qtopic-42-NaqvERXZLMj@quicktopic.com> wrote:

>
< replied-to message removed by QT >

Does anyone else find it hard to find a soulmate friend in this day and time? I am enjoying the Friendships of Women Bible study and would like to talk with others near South Carolina about it.

What is the difference between really loving someone and making them your idol? How do you really tell if you are making someone your idol? What is love and what does it look like? How do we really love someone in a good, right, healthy way?

Edited by author 10-09-2008 01:03 PM
today's message hit home for me in more ways than one. i was on my way to another office location, which is about a 40 minute ride from my central work location. i turned the car on, and i heard Dee and the others discussing today's topic about Naomi and Ruth. The one point that stuck out to me was how i measure my value and self-worth based on my position in life, i.e., mom, wife, friend, unfulfilled desires, etc. i find that my happiness is rooted in the level of gratification i receive from each of these important roles. when things are going well, i feel great; when things are going so so, i feel down. the bottom line for me is that i am placing my hopes and dreams in the wrong sources. my self-worth is not tied to earthly things but rather it is tied to my Creator and what He says and thinks about me. the very fact that He did create me, makes me special in His eyes. thus, i know He has a plan for my life...that He holds my life in the palm of His hands, that He has ordered my steps, that He goes before me to fight my battles, and that He will never leave me nor forsake me (i'm exercising the point Dee made today about breathing life into my soul (maybe she said spirit??) by preaching the word to myself--smile). i want to be so anchored to the Lord for all of my needs that i do not waiver when times are tough but i am steadfast in my faith believing that God is working all things together for my good and that He IS working His Will through every circumstance in my life. i'm sorry to go on and on but i am so thankful for this opportunity to share my heart with other women who understand; equally, i am greatful for this site and for the ministry of midday connection. so yeah, today's discussion provided me with much needed perspective and it also pointed me back to the Lord as my source. thank you for listening.

Edited by author 10-08-2008 07:15 PM
Hi, first I would like to say I am praying for that lady who lost her husband to cancer. It seems cancer is all around us! I had heard the study today about idolatry. Wow, that hit home. I haven't spent time with my husband in weeks because of his work. I live far away from family and I don't have too many friends in the area. I have been praying so hard for friends near by to get together with and I have tried to make lots of effort to have an opportunity to make friends. It hasn't worked out. I had made a good friend a few years ago and she has just moved away. Today I made a realization that I have been depending my happiness on everyone else. I am not happy because I haven't seen my husband, I am not happy because I don't have friends to call up and get together with and so on. But yet I am leaving the only one who is always there to the waist side! I don't pick up my bible or talk to God as I should.I should be depended on Him the only one I truly know that makes me happy. I have always been dependent on people to make me happy and so I know this is going to be a slow process, but I pray the Lord is working on me to bring me closer to Him. I am buying the book this week and work book. Again, I don't have a group of ladies to do this bible study with, but I look forward to every Wednesday to hear Dee and the other ladies. It's so moving and brings the scriptures to life! Thanks you for all you do.

I'm praying for Angie. I'm glad she has your group. I'm so sorry.

We need your prayers ladies. Our group of 5 women have been meeting together on and off for over 10 years. We are currently doing this study together. Our dear sister Angie lost her husband on Sunday after a brave battle with cancer. As a young widow, and my dearest friend, we need your prayers. The memorial service is Wednesday night. Carol

Wow! What a GREAT study. I have realized through this study that I have been given an opportunity by God to examine my friendships and to see where my true affections are; is it Christ or a friend? I have recently pulled away from a friendship because I felt like it was getting out of control. During this time I really began to pray and turn to God's word. I cannot tell you how elated I was when I logged on to Middday Connection and this topic was being studied. I am still praying and looking to God for direction as to where this friendship will go. I do have to admit that the "void" you spoke of on day 3 is something that I have been experiencing. Since I have made study and prayer a daily routine, the void is being filled by God. I still need to give this friedship some time off because I feel that I need to be growing in God's word. My friend has asked me twice why I have pulled away and all I could tell her was that I needed space. How do you tell a friend that you were becoming more dependant on her than you were Christ? It has always been hard for me to tell people what I think and feel but this has been the hardest thing to put into words. We both are Christians and can easily talk about many different things but lately it has been easier to avoid her. My time out of the friedship will soon be a year. One reason I pulled away from the friedship is the fact that she has become so judgemental and self-righteous. I feel that I am no longer on her spiritual plateau so it is easier to keep her at bay that to continue the friendship. The spiritual bond I once felt is no longer there and we now have little in common. Looking back I think the only thing we ever had in common was the gossip we shared through the form of a prayer requests. Gossip is a road I no longer plan to travel (especially not in the form of a prayer request). She thinks as long as it is in the form of a prayer request it is not gossip but you can give toooo much detail even in a prayer request. She is a family member so I need to really be careful as to how I handle this situation. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks for such a WONDERFUL program.

~Jennifer~

Hi guys

So glad to hear that I'm not the only one struggling with relational idolatry!

If any of you were 'knocked for six' like I was, then I highly recommend this sermon:

http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/1st-co...ng-idols-like-jesus

Very helpful.

Cheers
Kim

Oh my I listen to the program today and it just really made me feel like I am not crazy.
I grew up in as an only child with divorced parents. I was the "fat" girls that everybody just made fun of, even my own family. I used food as my comfort. My family were ver over protective and negative. All I did was eat and watch TV. Never had a concept of relationships. By the time I got to jr. high/high school for the firts time I had a friend. My bery first friend who didn't make fun of me. So became very co-dependant and I always wanted to be with her. She had no idea how I felt when she wanted to do things with other people or when she got a boyfried. Just like the lady who gave her testimony today I would get flu like symptoms and just cry myself into a mess. I had anxiety and you name it. The relationship even became physical. After college I became a Christian and we stopped talking. But still had the co-dependant issues. I just wanted somebody to love me. So I would become so attached to whoever game me their friendship. I got married to the only guy I even dated. He bacame my idol and with the thoughts brought by the anxiety, the control, jelousy and the fear of beinng alone and abandoned today here i sit after 10 years of marriege separated from my husband. But God is so Good. I have experience so much healing in my life. There is Healing in Pain!
Thanks

I just listened to the first 2 studies via web and I would love to do this locally. Anyone in West Palm Beach area game for this?

I just got finished listening to Midday Connection on wmbi in Chicago. With tears in my eyes I listed to Ita's story. I am always blown away at God's pursuit of our hearts! What amazing grace! How I pray that the Lord will continue to teach me to live daily in that grace! I forget too often that he loves me wholly. I also appreciated Kim's honesty with regards to her husband. However, I found it very interesting that everyone stated they have struggled with idolizing their husbands. I was beginning to think that there was something wrong with me b/c I have never had that feeling with my husband. But then I began to think that it was a blessing that God gave me. Is it possible that there are some things I am doing right? :) Praise God!

Dee, I do have a question for you, though. In Chapter 3 you mention a God-shaped void. What do you mean by that? How would you advise I figure out what the 'voids' in my life are?

Thank you.

Edited by author 10-01-2008 02:05 PM
I've just listened with a grateful heart to today's study. For a long time - over 20 years - I had a close friend who was described well at parts of today's broadcast. She wanted me all to herself; resented other friends, especially male friends. In many ways she was very kind, supportive, a sister in Christ; but as the years went on, the phone calls, the cards, the demands grew more oppressive to me. The relationship finally ended - painfully - because I just could not be to her what she wanted. I do believe there were sexual overtones, and that she hoped we would form that kind of relationship someday. She was a rescuer when my first marriage ended through my then-husband's adultery and abandonment of me and our daughter; when over 15 years later I met another man and began cautiously dating, she was incredibly jealous and upset. It seemed I could never please her, do enough, focus on her enough, or be a good enough friend. It was very difficult, very painful. But something in me just recoiled the harder she pushed, the more I wanted to back away and be able to breathe. Today I am so blessed with a wonderful marriage and great women friends, where there is mutual freedom and deep respect.I feel free to breathe and just be myself in all these relationships, and recognize how trapped I felt in that particular friendship.

Your program today helped me - even though the relationship ended 7 years ago - make sense of this; thank you for this and other programs that speak so powerfully and truthfully to my life!

I'm part of Heart Song's Park Forest, IL Friendship of Women Monday Night Bible Study and I have to say that I am learning so much! Our moderator, Ruth, is gifted and her enthusiasm and joy of the Lord is contagious! What a blessing she is. She's planning an overnight soon for all of us.

I hosted a Ladies Tea in my home on Saturday afternoon (different ladies than my Monday night group) and we had a wonderful time of sharing about our favorite books and learning more about each other playing the M&M game (you have to tell one thing about yourself for every M&M you took from a bowl). We were stunned to learn one woman was an expert marksman, another was in an Israeli Dance Troupe, another was a ventriloquist, etc., Everyone had so much fun, we plan to do it again very soon. The tea was a "practice" tea as I prepare to invite all the neighbors on my block to one at the end of October. Pray for me as I seek to learn how to share Christ's love with my women neighbors.

This study is a marvel and a blessing.

Sweet Melissa!
I am so proud of you for staying at that wedding and not leaving out of hurt so as to not upset things. That showed a lot of maturity and grace. You could have hurt her back and you chose not too.

It is very embarrassing to be hurt in public. I am sorry for that. I can see that she felt badly about it too and wants to reconcile. How sad she was so stressed at her wedding -- though that is not unusual. It is true we are often mean to those who we think will forgive us - not right, but part of our depravity! Yes, she shouldn't have done it, but I'm praying you might again give her grace. Grace for hurting you, grace for her rather poor apology (yet it was an attempt). I am learning so much what it means to love others as we have been loved by Christ -- we are so undeserving, yet He loves. It is a big sacrifice to love others like that, but I also found that with every "death" comes a resurrection.

I think you might find the book "What's So Amazing About Grace" helpful.

Thanks soooo much for sharing. We've all had this kind of experience and you are sharing the thoughts so many have had.

Warmly
Dee

Hello All! I just finished listening to the Friendships of Women, and it has really tugged at my heart-strings. I've been feeling really resentful toward a life-long friend. She and I grew up together and really became "best-friends" when we were in high school. She comes from a Christian home and while she, herself, claims to be Christian I do not feel like she treats others in a loving way. She had said many hurtful things to me in the past that I just brushed off, but the "final straw" came this last June at her wedding where she was a bridezilla. She snapped at me at the head table during the reception dinner when I had tried to simply make conversation with her. It made me feel so embarrassed and hurt. My husband wanted to immediately leave, but I love her family so much as my own that I did not want to cause any upset for them. The next day she had a brunch for the immediate family and wedding party before they left on their honeymoon. When I told her that she should call me when she returned from her honeymoon, she insisted that I tell her what was wrong. She said, oh was it the way I was yesterday. Then she said sorry that I snapped at you, I was just feeling a little stressed and I guess that I knew that I could take it out on you and you would be okay with it. I was shocked! It made me wonder what kind of friendship she thought that we have had all these years. She and her husband live in New York now, and we rarely speak. The last time she called me was to specifically ask for encouragement. Of course, I gave it to her, and she hasn't called me since. I don't know if I am maturing as a Christian and am beginning to see her in a different light, if I should just back away from our friendship, or what to do...Has anyone gone through anything like this? I could really use some advice...

Edited by author 09-28-2008 10:26 PM
A few months ago I had mentioned that I have a close friend that had been getting very judgmental towards me and I had felt like every time we were together she was putting some legalistic pressure on me to measure up to her. well, my prayers have been answered!!! This weekend we went to listen to Dee speak and through her and another ladies testimony, a big message was given. I also learned a lot too about my stuff. So we left more bonded as sisters than I ever thought was possible.
I also have been listening to a pastor out of Minnesota at the church of the open door...www.thedoor.org on the website go to recent messages. This is where I go to listen. I have been getting fed tremendously by his messages.

Karen

Is there anyone doing the Friendships of Women study in the Lake County, Florida area? Or does anyone want to get together to do this? I'd be willing to facilitate it. I just need participants. Beth

QuickTopic daily digest <qtopic-42-NaqvERXZLMj@quicktopic.com> wrote: < replied-to message removed by QT >

Thanks Vanessa! Your advice is well received. Praying for you also, that you will know how to love your friend well!
Thanks again,
Have a good day!
Della

I am doing the Friendships of Women bible study with my daughter-in-law, via the internet - she lives in Chicago, and another friend in Nevada City, California, is there another gal in Santa Rosa that is interested in doing the study?

Is anyone having a bible study or know of any bible studies in the west palm beach, FL area?

Anyone doing the study out in Naperville, IL? I would like to hear from you if you are.

dette57@wowway.com

Edited by author 09-24-2008 01:59 PM
I am looking to join a group for the current bible study, Friendships of women. I live in Grand Rapids Mi.

I am listening from Florida. Why don't you do a topic about depression and suicide.

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From: "QT - Vanessa" <qtopic-42-NaqvERXZLMj@quicktopic.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 1:30 PM
To: "QT topic subscribers" <qtopic-subs@quicktopic.com>
Subject: Friendships of Women Study

>
< replied-to message removed by QT >

Are there any women in the Middle Tennessee area, specifically Lascassas, Milton, Auburntown, doing this study? I would really like to participate in a Bible study in my area.

And I am listening on line from Park Ridge, IL. So great!

Edited by author 09-24-2008 01:28 PM
I'm interested in meeting with some women from the Batavia, Il area. Is there anyone interested in a small group?

Just wanted to say hello - listening online from PA.

Dearest Della,

I feel a kinship here with you. I, too, have a 'soul friend' of more than 15 years. However, 4 years ago she got married and moved 1,000 miles away. The same thing happenned to us that you have been talking about. Even though she hasn't acted 'ungodly', per se, there have been many instances in the past 4 years in which she has changed dramatically in her faith. And she handles her marriage in a way that I quite disagree with. She has also physically declined b/c she is not handling her situation well. What is most hurtful and difficult is that she has cut me out of her personal life. She no longer gives me the privilege of sharing this journey (marriage) with her. I have talked to many people that I highly esteem on this subject (including Dee) and the consistent advice that I have been given is to leave it in God's hands. I need to keep my ears, eyes and heart open to the time when (or if) I should act. Of course, I should always pray for her, but ultimately God is the only one who can change her heart. I believe this applies to your friend also. If my friend was separating from her husband in that same manner, I would say my peace one time and then take it to the Lord. I believe that as sisters in Christ we should keep a bridge between us. I believe that I should make it clear to my friend that I do not love the sin/action; I love her. I believe this second part is the most important. If there ever comes a time when she will reach rock bottom, I want her to have no doubt in her mind that she can come to me. I want to reiterate that I would not be condoning any immoral activity. In Dee's bible study she challenges us to take a look at what motivates us in our actions toward our friends (specifically those in wh/ there is a rift). I have begun to do this lately. I challenge each and everyone one of us to consider our motives before we confront someone else about their sins. I hope that this has been a little help. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers. Please pray for me also as I continue to learn the best way to love my friend.

Hi Dee and everyone!
I don't know if I am being a "hog" here - :) ! But I appreciate this forum to get feedback from other Christians on the topic of friendships. I think it is important to surrond yourself with other believers - to get feedback from them - I think, as the verse in Proverbs says, "In the multitude of counselors - there is safety. I think you need, of course, to know the Word for yourself, but then I think it is good to talk to other believers, they may just have insight that you do not have, or see things you do not see - that is why we are the body of Christ. No one person is the complete body. I have a friendship question. I have known a woman for over 25 years. We have been friends for that long. She has been my godly friend and mentor. Like a star or light on my path - leading me in the right direction. We live far from each other now, so our communication isn't as frequent or perhaps even as close as proximity permits. A couple of years ago, I reconnected with my friend while going through some hard things as always, God used her to help me through those times. I went to visit her - it was great, but I did notice a few things about my friend. Sometimes, when there is distance for a while, you see things that perhaps you wouldn't see, on just a day to day basis because you get used to it. But I didn't say much. Just believe God works those things out sometimes. Maybe, I should have said more, I don't know. We have been like "soul sisters". I think Dee, you said in your book, and I am paraphrasing here, that God gives us "sisters" sometimes to watch our back, or see things we didn't see. So, at this point, I may have failed her, I should have perhaps been more bold. But anyway, after visiting her, we stayed connected over e-mail and stuff and really re-established our relationship. After a while ( I know this is long, I am sorry - I just don't know how to ask the question without the information!), after a while my friend, told me she was seperating from her husband, I did not say much at first because I didn't know anything, so I just listened for a while. This was my most "godly" friend! The one who told me to get on the right path! This was a very godly woman. But as I listened, I am sad to say, my friend, had no biblical grounds for this. And I told her as gently as I knew how. After this, I noticed her communication became less and less. A little later she told me she had met someone younger and had "fallen" in love. I had always been honest with my friend, even when I wasn't doing right or good, and she had directed me in the right, godly, way. So, I asked her, what are you doing? You are throwing it all away. Even in the hard times, when you stood by things, your giving it all up! I don't think she wanted to hear, our communication became less and less, until it just stopped on her part. Recently, my friend just wrote me a letter, saying how she is sorry that she hurt me, she never meant to - saying that she doesn't know what to say to me, that she feels ashamed and feels like she has betrayed my friendship, saying she has not been able to be the friend I expected her to be and what she expected of herself. And then, she just goes on to say, how she is sorry she hasn't written, etc..
My question is, how do I respond to her? For her highest good? I am too emotionally connected here to be confident how to respond. In one way I feel, she is skipping the whole issue - making it a matter of me. And of course, I am affected, but my real concern is for her. I don't think she is being honest - she is making it about me. I know that we are not the "Holy Spirit's convictors", but I also know there are times to speak up. I do not seek "peace" at any price - especially at the price of my friend. Can you help me here?

Does anyone have a group or interested in a group in Muskegon, MI?

Does anybody have a group in McHenry County?

Cathy,

I am looking for a study group to join, where does your meet?

Our Friendships of Women Bible Study meet on Wednesday evening. Last Wednesday after the exciting Tea on Midday our group was so blessed with a young woman being baptized before our study. Afterwards we all went and praised the Lord ,studied His Word, prayed, and even cried. I am so blessed to be able to lead this with our ministers lovely wife and I felt so unworthy that night to teach when we had witnessed a new birth in Him! So now, Dee and Midday sisters, it is almost time for another study and how can we continue when we started at the top of the mountain? Also, our church had just had revival and this past Sunday a precious little girl was baptized too! I am praying for you and looking forward to listening to the study. Thank you for all you do and for your prayers. I wish you could meet each one of the 22 women that meet and we have some who work and are listening on line. Blessings! Glory to God!

Vanessa, in Park Forest. Email me at msheartsong@gmail.com for further information.

msheartsong, where does your group meet?

Edited by author 09-23-2008 08:28 AM
Hi all, I could not get to the computer fast enough to post this message. Our Monday night Friendships of Women met and I cannot stop praising the Lord! We serve an awesome God!!! And it was God Who formed this group. We have different ages (30s - 70s), different races, different martial statuses. In fact to put it succinctly, we are just plain different! We are looking for God to do what only He can do -- bring unity among diversity! The meeting was dynamite. We had 11 ladies and everyone participated in the discussion. Last Monday only 4 were able to attend, but everyone came this Monday except one woman who had to work late (and we're looking for her to return next Monday). The sharing was amazingly at a deep level for the first meeting of almost everyone. I can only sing: Then sings my soul, my Savior God to Thee, how great Thou art!! Because Scripture says to give honor to who honor is due: thank you Dee, Andrea, Melinda, Lori and all the Midday Connection producers, Moody, and the list goes on..... But most of all thank you Lord!!!!!

p.s: Please hold our group members up in prayer as well as all the ladies who will be studying in groups, online or wherever.

Thanks Dee!

May the Lord guide you Della -- may He show you if you are to speak, and if so, how and when. May He prepare your Dad's heart. You probably know to use "I" messages, as they are less threatening. But may God guide you dear one. I'm glad you are going to check out The Blessing. I'm sure you could get it from inter-library loan.

Love
Dee

I love your way Dee. It is gentle and kind and respectful. I admire that about you. You are right, I do love my Dad. There are ways that I have come to know God from my Father. I know that I could call him in the middle of the night and he would come for me - that I can call my heavenly Father in the middle of the night and he would be there. I have come to learn that there are many ways people show love and they are not just with words. I find it a bit awkward to speak to my Dad in this way, but I know what you say is true. Thank you for your insights - they are a blessing to us. I am a bit afraid to speak to my Dad in this way, it has been quite a painful thing in the past. It is not that I have closed my heart, but have felt the need to protect it in that way - the pain is too intense. But i desire to love and to show my love in a way that he can accept. I am committed to loving, and I'll not let it hinder me. I have heard of that book "The Blessing", I will have to check it out again! Thank you Dee.
Sincerely yours,
Della

Della -- This is really a thoughtful letter. I love how you embrace your earthly dad, even though he had this limitation, which is not uncommon. I remember thinking my dad didn't love me, for similar reasons, when I was young -- and told him so one time. He astonished me by getting very emotional -- both angry and sad -- and saying, "Your mother, your sisters, and you are my life!" It was so comforting -- but I hadn't really heard that before. I realized I had failed to tell him what I needed to hear. I don't know if you have ever tried that with your dad -- telling him how you long for words of love and reassurance and respect from him. You know him better than I do -- and it may not work -- but wondered if you had ever tried. I have also found Gary Smalley and John Trent's book "The Blessing" helpful. They write that for whatever reason, some parents cannot give the blessing, but we can receive it from the Lord.

Love to you -- praying for you.

Dee

Dear Dee - I just started reading your book, "Friendships of Women", and I was just reading the part where you say women "volley" more in their conversations, that is so true! I come from a family of 5 sisters and one brother. The conversations with my sisters and my mother has always been one of back and forth conversation - noticably different from conversation with my Father. My Father's conversation was always instructional, often one sided. I learned alot from my Father, he is a very intelligent man, but I must say there is only so much "listening" you can do. I've always had somewhat of a hard relationship with my Father. I have grown to love and appreciate him more as i have gotten older but have felt such a big lapse or emptiness in the whole Father area. I remember, as a young girl, I would cry and ask my mother why my Dad doesn't love me. I so desired his love and affection. And all my Dad would do is talk. He would talk from the moment he got up to the moment he went to bed. He would never ask about you, how you were, how your day was, etc.., it was never a "volleying" of conversation. The only " volleying" of conversation, would be on a certain point of dispute. And often, even if he agreed, he would take the opposite point of view, I'm not sure why, to make you think, maybe? Even that is good in some way I suppose, it helps you to think about and defend your position. But sometimes, I just longed for him to say, your right. There is some comfort in that. Not for just the case of being right, but being understood. I come to appreciate my Dad, and not to expect that kind of "conversation" but as "father's" how affirming a word spoken can be. Our women friends are great, they think like us. But there is something about Father's and the words they speak, that no one can take the place of a Father. It is where we gather information about our heavenly Father, rightly or wrongly so. I still to this day have a hard time seeing my heavenly Father as a loving and caring Father. There are many things my Dad did teach me, which enlarges my view of my heavenly Father, but in that one point, I have difficulty.

Haven't heard the broadcast yet - looking forward to it though!

Thanks to all who came to the tea and who listened!
I hope you'll ask each other and me your friendship questions on this forum. Blessings to each of you!


Dee

I just wanted to shout out a big 'thank you' to all who were involved in the 'Tea' yesterday. I was truly blessed. Words cannot express how much I was moved by the conversation and connection.

I am looking forward to the study! However, I am looking for a group that is within 10 miles of Des Plaines. Does anyone know of one? Thanks.

Kristen and Michaelle, We had a wonderful time at the tea yesterday too, and the taping afterwards. This is an amazing study that, I believe, will really touch women at their core. We're praying for God to deepen many relationships throughout this study and to help develop others as we saw happen even at the tea yesterday. And, of course, we're praying for Him to deepen that ultimate relationships between us and Him.
Glad to meet so many of you yesterday!

Edited by author 09-18-2008 11:26 AM
I wanted to also say "THANK YOU" to Dee, Melinda, and Anita for hosting the Tea yesterday! It was wonderful and I really enjoyed it. It was great to get to talk to Melinda and Dee afterwards, unfortuantely I did not get a chance to speak with Anita, my apologies. Thank you lovely ladies again!

I wanted to thank the wonderful women of Midday Connection, Dee Brestin and the ladies in the "small group" for a wonderful day yesterday. As my dear friend Ruth said on the way out, I feel like we should be floating home, not doing something mundane like walking or driving! The Lord truly blessed us all. I pray that we will also be blessings to other women as we seek to learn what He who knows all things will teach us.

I'm getting inquiries on how we are going to do a 13 week guide in 10 weeks. Here's my best answer:

The weeks we are looking at combining are:
Lessons 3 and 4
Lessons 11 and 12
and we'll skip the review of 13

Having said that, the Spirit may lead us differently -- a call in or the way the discussion is flowing can change the need, but, that's the plan. I like the Proverb that man plans His way and the Lord directs His Steps!

In December, on my website, we are going to have a Friendships of Women Retreat in a Box available. Could be a way to re-unite as a group next year and review!

Blessing to each of you!
Dee

Susan -- We'll just do lesson 1 on the 17th and the following lesson the next week. I forgot we have that big studio audience with whom to interact!
Dee

Nancy -- I'm so thankful your friend has a friend like you. What blessed me the most when I lost my best friend, my husband, was friends who loved me and didn't give me answers. It hurts too much. If she asks, then brief responses are best. We don't know why her friend died. I like the way Tim Keller puts it (www.Redeemer.com) - We don't know what the reason for suffering is -- but we do know what it is not. It isn't that Jesus didn't care -- for only Christianity has a God who came down and entered into our suffering.
I'm so glad she has you to love her, be there for her, pray for her.
Warmly,
Dee

Dear Sue --
Good for you! My prayers are with you. If we do get to Lesson 2, we'll look at the greeting and parting scene section.

Blessings!
Dee

I found the excerpt from your book Friendships of Women and God led me to the following part about when a woman loses a soulmate (friend).

"Psychotherapist Lillian Rubin wrote, “The devastation that a woman can feel at the demise of a soul mate friendship is akin to the pain of a divorce.” We'll consider how to handle that pain later, but for now, we need to acknowledge that it is real".

A woman in our congregation lost her best friend several months ago to a very sudden bout with cancer. She has practically stopped coming to church and is very depressed and mad at God for not answering her prayers for healing. What can I do to help her get through this very sad time? As I said already, I believe God led me to find this book today for a reason.

Thanks Dee for your timely answer will try to have the two lessons done for the Sept. 17th airing! I'm going to introduce the study to my co workers to see if they would like to join also--a step out of my norm!---Sue

Susan -- that's right. 1st lesson September 17th. We have to consolidate 14 weeks in 10, and it is possible we will do two lessons that first week, but we'll see. My inclination is to consolidate at the end when the lessons are a bit shorter.

Blessings.
Dee

Hi Dee, just confirming that first lesson needs to be done for Sept.17th to be discussed and it is not an introduction to the study like WOM was. If you could confirm that for me please that would be great--Thanks Sue--Looking forward to doing the study!

Oh -- I'm very late to respond -- sorry!
Here are some answers to questions!
You can listen online.
The actual study is 14 weeks, but we are consolidating it into 10, actually beginning September 17th.

There are postcards you can send snail or e-mail on my website to interest others! (www.deebrestin.com)

I'll be better about reading this forum!
Dee

I am getting a group of women together to do this study together. This weekend a group of 7 of us are going to a Joyce Meyer conference. So what better way to keep our connections strong than doing this study together!!! I'm excited I can't wait. I know there will be questions from the others. I am wondering if the study starts the 10th or 17th of September? Also is it 10 weeks or 14 weeks long? This forum says 10, the information page says 14. :o)
Thank you for your help!
In His hands,
Marsha

I'm so looking forward to this study! I'm going to share the URL with my fellow Bible study students so they can listen via iTUnes as I do. It just may lead to a study at my church, who knows? *grin*

Dee, so glad you updated the book - it blessed me when I first read it years ago - and now I can introduce another generation of women to it. Thank you so very much!

Anita and Melinda, thank you for such pertinent topics of discussion and speakers. You inspire my walk with the Lord daily.

Gratefully yours,
Denise

I am very excited about the upcoming study. In the process of trying to get a group together. Any tips or ideas?

I am interested in partipating in the Friendships of Women Study, But I will not be able to listen to the Wednesday broadcasts due to my work schedule. Will I be able to listen to them online? Thanks

I found the tab to enter for the tickets for the tea! Thanks!

Edited by author 08-13-2008 01:56 PM
Hi! I am very excited about the upcoming study, Friendships of Women and am wondering when can I get tickets to the tea! Thanks for all you do and for picking a topic that is very much needed!

We're excited about the 10-week Friendships of Women study with Dee Brestin that will begin on September 17th! I'm especially excited because on that day, we'll have a special live event - a beautiful Tea! We'll announce on August 12th how you can enter for a chance to win two tickets to the Friendships of Women Tea.

As always, thanks for listening to Midday Connection,
Lori Neff
Midday Connection Producer