Discussion Forum for Readers and Supporters of European Action

Religion is a super natural belief which may have been invented by crackpots, why did God or Gods make us differant? Some are white some are black, the Black African as a smaller brain than the white european. If that is correct then faith is another con tric created by some form of God that demands that the cracpot was Darwin. I'm an athiest and want equal laws and treatment for all, religion should have nothing to do with Law,
or education, it should be kept at home behind closed doors, as it can be offensive. I'm against fixed marriage which should not be allowed,like women treated as second class citizens, what sort of gods are we dealing with?

Edited by author 05-07-2008 21:30
Sharia law would work on a two tier system along with English secular law. English secular law as enacted by Parliament would be paramount regarding the more serious offences.
There is no reason why Sharia law should not be applied within Muslim communities just as the deliberations of the Beth Din are accepted by religious Jews.
Atheists have no religion, therefore they can not have religious laws. They have only English secular law.
I agree with FG. A religion must be defined by the number of its adherents. Otherwise you have crackpots inventing religions every five minutes.
Let us maintain a sense of proportion, please.

As for the 30.000 or more look it up on the internet, So would it be correct in saying our law (other than British) should be carried out because we are not interested with yours. Please look beyond any faith and say this is our Law take it or leave it, don't go to Isreal and try and change there faith or Law, Christian or Muslim.

As Atheists have no religion they obviously don't need religious courts. A religion should have a reasonable number of adherants in order to qualify for having its own religious courts, something that clearly does not apply to all but half a dozen of the 30,000 different religions you mention. Incidentally, who says there are 30,000. Who counted them?

That being the case, there are at least 30.000 differant religions will they all qualify for the same respect as the two faith laws you have mentioned? Should athiest have the right to differant laws?

Sharia law applies only to Muslims. It can not be 'imposed' upon non-Muslims. This is something that needs to be made clear.
The Jewish community has the Beth Din which is an exclusively Jewish ecclesiastical court that rules on many aspects of Jewish life. The Beth Din has no jurisdiction over Christian life.
I see no reason why British Muslims should not have recourse to Sharia law when it comes to domestic issues. It is said that Sharia law is less time-consuming that the racket monopolised by lawyers in this country.
Laws concerning the punishment for murder and rape remain the prerogative of British secular law as enacted by Parliament, of course. This is accepted by Muslims.
Any public debate needs to be tempered and conducted without the hysteria that the likes of the BNP would whip up. You will find the truth is not the horror and cruelty that some would like to misrepresent the Islamic way.

Robert, should sharia law be used in in Britain without any public debate
from the run of the mill workers and their adult family's

Two former subscribers are automatically banned from posting here for trouble-making and offensive remarks. The previous post may be one of those.

Edited by author 11-06-2008 19:08
Of course, when the Russians took over Poland and established a puppet communist government they also imposed major border changes.

Eastern Poland became incorporated in the Soviet Union whilst a large chunk of eastern Germany and the Prussian enclaves were transferred to Poland. In other words, Poland was 'shifted' westwards.

As a result, many of the Polish people are really of German ethnic origin so your Polish plumber could be German despite having names that read like the bottom line on an optician's eye-chart.

Although of interest, none of this is of great importance since the future lies in our new European citizenship and the many advantages that will be ours - so long as this common citizenship is along National European lines and not as part of the global capitalist community.

An MP has criticised the 'liberal elite' BBC for causing attacks on Polish people living in Britain. Conservative David Kawczynski opposes the BBC's negative coverage of 'soft touch' immigration of 'Polish White Christians' while ignoring the more 'controversial politically correct immigration from outside Europe'. Recent figures show just 8% of immigrants are from Eastern Europe, the vast majority are non-European from the Asian sub-continent and black Africa. The 'Daily Mail' recently revealed that 500,000 immigrants came to Britain last year.

Good for him ... he is, after all, 'one of us'.

Despite the sting operation Max Mosley has won the confidence vote in his FIA leadership.

An interesting development in the Max Mosley saga:

From The Sunday Times
May 18, 2008
MI5 linked to Max Mosley sex scandal
David Leppard
An MI5 officer has been forced to resign after admitting that his wife was a prostitute who took part in a notorious “Nazi-style orgy” with Max Mosley, the Formula One racing chief.
The intelligence officer, who cannot be named for security reasons, left the service last month after it emerged that his wife was one of the five call girls who took part in the sadomasochistic sex session with Mosley.
Exposure of the lurid orgy led to calls for Mosley, the son of Sir Oswald Mosley, the wartime British fascist leader, to step down from his post as president of the FIA, the governing body of world motor sport.
In an extraordinary turn of events yesterday, MI5 was forced to deny through Whitehall channels that the orgy had been a “sting” that it had set up to discredit Mosley. “Any suggestion that the service was involved in setting up Mosley is total nonsense,” a senior Whitehall official said.
The official did disclose, however, that one of MI5’s officers had left the agency after his wife’s involvement as a call girl in the orgy became known. “I cannot talk about individual cases, but we do expect high standards of behaviour from all staff at all times, both professionally and privately,” the official said.
“In any case where a member of staff is believed to have fallen below those standards, action will be taken.”
The officer is understood to be in his forties and to have served in the military before joining MI5, where he was involved in surveillance operations.
The disclosure is a severe embarrassment to Jonathan Evans, director-general of MI5, who is understood to have informed Gordon Brown and Jacqui Smith, the home secretary, and assured them the agency was not involved in any sting.
Questions will now be asked about why the service’s vetting procedures failed to expose the secret, which could have made the officer vulnerable to blackmail.
Mosley, who is 68 and has been married since 1960, is one of the most powerful men in world sport. His father was a hate figure who led the British Union of Fascists in the 1930s and 1940s. His mother was the society beauty Diana Mitford, a great admirer of Adolf Hitler.
When the story broke, Mosley said he had been told by a source close to the security services that he had been targeted in a covert investigation of his private life “by a group specialising in such things for reasons and clients as yet unknown”.
The F1 boss’s five-hour sex session with the five call girls took place in an underground “torture chamber” in Chelsea, west London. The Oxford-educated former barrister is alleged to have re-enacted a concentration camp scene in which he played the role of both guard and inmate.
The session is alleged to have involved prostitutes dressed as German officers and camp inmates. It was secretly caught on video by one of the call girls, who used the name Mistress Abi. Sources said it was Abi’s husband who worked for MI5 and that she sold the story to the News of the World newspaper for an undisclosed sum. According to the paper, Mistress Abi wore a Luftwaffe uniform during the session and oversaw beatings of Mosley.
In the video Mosley can be seen standing naked as Abi ties him up with chains before ordering him to lie face down on the bed. Later she screams: “Face down! Did I say move? We don’t want you comfortable.”
Mosley was condemned by Jewish groups and leading figures in the motor racing world. He was snubbed by the crown prince of Bahrain, who told him not to attend the Bahrain Grand Prix last month.
Sir Jackie Stewart, the former world motor racing champion, said that Mosley’s position was “untenable”. The Monaco royal family, the Grimaldis, have made it clear that he is not welcome at next Sunday’s showpiece grand prix in the principality.
Mosley has been unapologetic and has claimed that he needs to stay on to fight the Nazi allegations in a libel action. He denied the orgy had any Nazi theme and said it was “harmless” and “completely legal”. Disclosure of the MI5 officer’s role appears to be his latest tactic in a desperate attempt to save his job. “This is an astonishing piece of information, which I will pass on to my legal advisers,” he said last night.
The News of the World denies there was any collusion between itself and the secret services.
MI5 employs 3,500 people in the fight against Al-Qaeda and hostile powers and prides itself on its discretion. It has been horrified to discover that an officer has become involved, even indirectly, in a high-profile sex scandal.
The service will have been forced to conduct a thorough review of the officer’s work and personal life to establish whether he has put any state secrets at risk.
Security sources say that in any case where an MI5 officer or a close family member is involved in prostitution there is a risk that their integrity — and hence national security — could be compromised.
One official said: “Clearly there would be a conflict there for any member of the service. Prostitutes by the very nature of their business will be connected to people who are probably in the criminal fraternity.”
An internal MI5 investigation is trying to establish whether the officer knew his wife was involved in prostitution and whether he was involved in her business affairs.
The matter is also being examined by the Quest security company, run by Lord Stevens of Kirkwhelpington, the former Metropolitan police commissioner who investigated the death of Diana, Princess of Wales. Quest was already working for the FIA when it was asked to investigate the Mosley affair.
Mosley is facing a confidence vote in a secret ballot of the 220 members of the FIA assembly in Paris on June 3. He has written to the presidents of member clubs painting a doomsday scenario if he is forced out of office. He says he needs to stay at the helm of the Formula One governing body until October next year in the interests of the sport.
The suggestion of MI5 involvement in the Mosley scandal will bring back echoes of the role that the spy service had in monitoring his father. Documents released by the Public Records Office in 2002 showed how the intelligence agency had planted unnamed informants inside the British Union of Fascists. They reported on him until his arrest and detention in 1940.

Thank you for your lucid answer to my question. I must agree with you that the free market model is not doing very well these days! In my kneck of the woods war, famine etc are just another opportunity to buy on the cheap. Sadly the rest of the world has been infected with the same US style of thinking! When we start to make something as opposed to making our living through taking in others laundry then syndicalism with have a very real role to play in the economy.