about the skate park thing.
you got it all wrong.
the cheese and grain park is not used by skaters because there isn't enough room for skaters and bikes, its because the park is awful, the ramps are poorly put together and designed, and the the park layout is a complete mess, just extending it would not make it better at all. you need input from skaters, not from people who just walk alongside it and chat to a few people riding bikes. frome needs a good new skate park, victoria skate park is rubbish as well. if your going to do anything skate park wise, get skater input, it needs to be designed by skaters, not the council, and as for putting an extension on the slope, HAAHAHAHA. you cant put a skate park on a bloody hill, it just doesn't work, gravity. the bikes are fine with victoria park and the cheese and grain one, but when they are swarmed with bikes and small children it makes it even harder to skate an already rubbish park.

Its absolutely not!;)

So I guess its heads together for innovative, inclusive ways of bringing it all together then? Regardless of how long, where from etc etc.

I honestly think it would be half the battle if this could be effectively addressed!

Re: .........existing "movers and shakers" who have quietly been serving this fantastic community for many years go unnoticed. They don't tend to be involved in the high profile, high brow stuff that has become so trendy in the town at the moment......

John writes:

Well, you are dead right. It is accurate that not enough "indigenous fromites" [of which I am one] ever really get involved and so risk going unnoticed. I well remember all the town activities you mention from my youth - they should be kept and strengthened. But it in our own hands; we get what we deserve. We reap what we, as citizens, sow...... More "indigenous fromites" could and should get involved but, on the whole, they don't become councillors, or take a public roll [but they always criticise]. I profoundly disagree that the matters are high profile or highbrow. No, they usually concern the application of commonsense - which is not lacking in Frome. We obviously disagree about a choice of words, but that's not worth falling out about.

QT - Em wrote:
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Maybe its a question of interpretation then? I just feel that existing "movers and shakers" who have quietly been serving this fantastic community for many years go unnoticed. They don't tend to be involved in the high profile, high brow stuff that has become so trendy in the town at the moment. If an us and them culture is to be avoided then more needs to be done to bridge the gaps...........if we're going to have art installations that "interrupt" our town they need to be up on the Mount or in Asda as well as the arty type places. The festival needs to be more accessible, maybe a season ticket to help people on lower incomes join in?

The Cheese Show needs to come back to Frome. If you have been here long enough to remember when it was on the show field and we all used to get the day off school on the Wednesday. And the carnival and the fair were in town on the Saturday? It was great-its a crime that its not like that anymore........that's the type of old school community I'm talking about and its gone!

Don't get me wrong-I'm not stunted I promise! I have done all I can to embrace the new and exciting things that happen in our town. I have been in productions at the Merlin and the Grand. FromeFM rocks and it is an honour to be involved with it. I perform in the festival however, I could only attend one event because my 10 year old daughter wanted to see something at the Cheese and Grain with us and I had to pay full price for her-by the time child care for the other was sorted and a drink was had our going out budget was blown for a fortnight!

There is so much more that can be done to make this town a far more inclusive place for both those new to the area and the old timers-who are vocal and involved, and those who do not feel comfortable to speak up where ever they come from or how long they've lived here.

I still maintain that sentence was a sweeping and untrue statement!

Re: On the whole the report is great...BUT I am appalled and quiet frankly offended at....."Those who grew up in its past age are still living here, but they tend to go unnoticed. The newer people are often more vocal and are perceived as its 'movers and shakers'."

I found this bit on p33 of the Interim Report in the chapter 'Society & Well-being'. I am a Fromie too but I don't read this bit in a negative way. It doesn't suggest that 'incomers' think they know more and do more than Fromies. Rather it says that people from families long-resident tend to be stoic and put up with things. That's accurate, in my view. Those who collected the evidence and drafted V4F's interim report are either Fromies by conviction or by birth. Having found Frome, 'incomers, tend to want to strengthen the town not change it in negative, 'anti-Fromie ways. I do not see a 'Them and Us' within Frome. On the whole it's just 'Us'. My view is that many of the questions and problems that the Interim Report tries to answer come from outside Frome; absent administrators, for example.
Yours, through rose coloured specs.

John


QT - Em wrote:
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I have just been reading up on this V4F stuff-this discussion board and your report, I have been aware of its existence but as a working mother and ACTIVE community member have had to prioritise............now however, I feel compelled to have my say. On the whole the report is great, I very much want to be a part of this forum and would now choose to put it near the top of those priorities I talked about. BUT I am appalled and quiet frankly offended at this bit of it........"Those who grew up in its past age are still living here, but they tend to
go unnoticed. The newer people are often more vocal and are perceived as
its 'movers and shakers'."


I have lived here all my life. I have been active in the community since I was old enough to do so independently.
"Fromies" are massively miss represented. I am NOT a small minded hick! Frome has had an amazing community spirit for many many years.........before it became one of the top 5 places to visit for the weekend........before Frome Festival and before Fromies who keep this town going (we work in your schools, collect your bins, work in the pubs and supermarkets etc etc)were priced out of the housing market by people who want to move here and "put Frome on the map".

People who have lived here all their lives are intimidated by "vocal, movers and shakers" and niffed off with the attitude that Frome was nothing special before you came along. It was, is and always will be-not because of fancy art installations or festivals that are on the whole too expensive for us lifers, but because of things like the Memorial Hall, The Lions Club, the schools, the fetes and the many other things that have preceded all you incomers and us indeed us Fromies!

Whens the next meeting? Count me very much in!!!!!

I think Frome needs a new and larger shopping centre. Westway Shopping Centre is Too Small and there is not many shops. Most shops are not recognisable ones. A new shiopping centre would benifit the Town as most of the frome population goes to either Bath or Trowbridge where there are good shops and lots of shops.

Hi John, Mandie,
This sounds to me like an idea to put into Vision for Frome as a project.&#C2;&#A0; I'll add it on. Cheers, Maggy

--- On Sat, 5/7/08, John Hyde <john.hyde@hydenet.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
From: John Hyde <john.hyde@hydenet.myzen.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Vision for Frome Forum
To: "QT topic 41-HxqJfmJ6Aw6Y" <qtopic-41-HxqJfmJ6Aw6Y@quicktopic.com> Date: Saturday, 5 July, 2008, 10:01 AM

Mandie

Ages ago you wrote a very interesting piece about the skate park, the car park etc. I have been thinking about
the same things.

Clearly it's necessary to have somewhere for youngsters to let of steam without disturbing others too much.
To my mind the present skate park is not quite in the right place. It could, for example, be expanded and made more sophisticated
if it were put to the right of the Cheese&Grain, up the slope. The younsters may prefer some privacy although I recognise
that has its question marks. But at least any 'supervisers' would know where to look. Another possible location is the North Parade
car park.

The Cattle Market near the Frome Canoe Club could then be used for Civic gatherings, an expanded marketet etc.

What do people think?

John Hyde


QT - Mandie Stone wrote:
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>�A;�A;�A; __________________________________________________________�A;Not happy with your email address?.�A;Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html
< replied-to message removed by QT >

Mandie

Ages ago you wrote a very interesting piece about the skate park, the car park etc. I have been thinking about
the same things.

Clearly it's necessary to have somewhere for youngsters to let of steam without disturbing others too much.
To my mind the present skate park is not quite in the right place. It could, for example, be expanded and made more sophisticated
if it were put to the right of the Cheese&Grain, up the slope. The younsters may prefer some privacy although I recognise
that has its question marks. But at least any 'supervisers' would know where to look. Another possible location is the North Parade
car park.

The Cattle Market near the Frome Canoe Club could then be used for Civic gatherings, an expanded marketet etc.

What do people think?

John Hyde


QT - Mandie Stone wrote:
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We have just returned from a walk and we passed by the skate ramp area beside the Cheese & Grain. We stopped to chat with some of the young people using the ramps for bmx'ing, watching them doing stunts on their bikes. There were no skateboarders around because the ramps were being used for bikes so that means there's not enough room for the skateboards. The skate park is quite tiny and it's a bit of a funny shape.

The young people using the ramps feel that the young community would benefit further from more ramps - then there would be enough to go round for both bike tricks and skateboarding antics. The thing is, the car park area there, next to the skate park and beside the Cheese & Grain, has only 30 spaces and I feel that it might be better used as an extension of the urban sports area. Perhaps a bigger selection of ramps could be added and how about a hard surface court - like the basket ball courts they have in America - there's definitely enough room for one of those - I think they are called an 'urban court' they have a five-a-side football pitch inside a caged court which also has basketball nets above the football goals. The skateboard park area was really busy tonight but not with skateboarders. It would be good if there were enough facilities for the skateboarders and bmx'ers to show off their stuff, side by side with some basketball and football thrown in to create an exciting place for urbanites to do their sporty thing.

I do not think that it would make a mega-difference to trade in Frome if we lost those 30 parking spaces as the car park around the library area is quite big anyway and there's another car park on the hill opposite Welshmill Lane.

Also, I don't think the extra facilities for young people would make a big difference to noise levels for the few residential properties long the river there as if the courts and parks are lock-up-able then they could close at say 10pm in the Summer, maybe 9pm in the Winter. Which is not really too late for some comings and goings of an urban sport kind.

The 'Graffiti Artsibition' (a controlled urban art project) combined with an Urban Sports BMX Event is being held around by the skate ramps on Saturday 12th July during the Frome Festival (check out page 6 of the festival programme for details). I'm sure this will be a popular and exciting event. It would be great if there were influential people from the council (those who can make a difference to the provision of facilities for youngsters and are 'champions of young people'), to be there on this day to speak with the teenagers about what they think would make Frome greater for them.

It's great reading all of this, and I think we have wonderful opportunities in Frome to really create a thriving community. Whether born here, stopping by, lost on the way back from Glastonbury, or moved here for good, the fact is we are here. This is where we live. We should treat our home town with respect. Pick up our rubbish and our dog poo and look out for each other. Whatever shade of green we are, we have enough going on here to paint the town red. When we are feeling blue we can look to a friendly neighbour for a chat and a cup of (green?) tea. If we are browned off about something we can rant about it (constructively of course), on the V4F blog. The future is bright, the future is orange (unless you ditch your mobile) I'm not looking at Frome through rose tinted glasses but coming from the lovely but smokey, crowded and grey city of London, we find this town a very pleasant place to be. What a colourful town we live in, and with all this Summer rain, there's bound to be a rainbow soon! So look on the bright side - I've written it here in black and white 'Frome is already quite great and things can only get better!'

Having read this forum I am concerned that we may be missing the point. It does not matter whether you are a Fromie or newcommer to Frome. Your nationality, creed, religion or colour must not divide the community and whether you have green aspirations or not, we are all going to have to make some major lifestyle changes over the next twenty years or so.

This forum should be devoting its energy and focus towards what the community will have to deal with over the next 20-25 years. We are not talking about "quick wins" and short term gains but the long term outlook and strategy to deal with the most important issues that will concern us all.

Everyone by now must be aware of the increase in energy costs and uncertainty in supplies. Energy underpins every activity and consumer product in our lives. Without secure affordable energy and liquid fuels in particular, we cannot continue to live the lives we do today and Central Government will loose any influence over our daily living and concerns. Our future depends on our communities becoming self-sufficient as much as possible. This can only be achieved through relocalisation.

We are totally unprepared for energy and climate uncertainty and therefore need to focus on identifying the local vulnerabilities, implications, and risks attached to these phenomina in order that we can distil mitigating local strategies. This also means securing local sources or supply channels for the following:

Energy
Food
Shelter
Transport
Raw materials or natural resources to support local business regeneration

These are our primary concerns but to enable these we also need the following:

Local Government supported by local taxes and accountable directly to local communities
Direct Democracy to elect local officials on the basis of proportional representation
Education and Training to reacquire self-sustaining skills and techniques.
Utility and Community Support collaboration.

There are of course many more inter-related issues that we will have to address but these seem to me to be the most important and should become the focus of V4F.

Dingbat is surely right. If there is tension, it is the sudden outburst from Quelerous Citizen
about art centres. Nothing much to do with Fromites or incomers - just quelerousness.

QT - Dingbat wrote:
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Not born (found under a goosgog bush) but definitely bred.

QT - Maggy wrote:
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One of the things coming out of these discussions is a tension between 'incomers' and 'Fromies'. In the 1950s the population was around 9,000 and now it is around 27,000. That wasn't natural population growth and so most people in Frome are either incomers or the children of incomers. I think of myself as a Fromie but in fact I came in one of the waves of migration - in my case in the early 1990s. Recently we have had a noticeable number of people from the south-east and London (because of house prices) and from eastern Europe (because of unemployment or low paid work in their own countries). I've been told that before my arrival it was mostly from around Bristol.

Does it matter where we came from or how long ago, so long as we respect the character of Frome and the feelings of those already here? There are divisions in the town, and some of these are related to different backgrounds, economic status and culture. Resentment develops where there is not enough respect for each other's different preferences and people feel they are being walked over.

Most of the people using this site so far are not born-and-bred Fromies, and it would be better if we had some more input from them to provide balance. We ALL live here so we need a Community Plan which reflects the wishes of the whole town and not just a vocal minority. So if you are a born-and-bred Fromie with something to say, please say it!