SUPERsub /m21317

You are right of course. We can't possibly change things enough so that the 2010 mail count will be fair.

We can do the few things that are in our power to improve the situation but even with this it will not be fair.

I only see two choices.

1) Do what little we can to improve the situation.

2) Stop spitting against the wind and give up.

pabak /m21318

I think you will find that we Rural Carriers are a bigger obstacle to the changes you suggest than the Postal Service.

Of course the Postal Service loves the free ride.

We are the ones who won't fight for the change even though we know it is needed.

For example my argument against your idea is.

"We still have too many carriers who push to work under evaluation. Many of these carriers take short cuts such as not checking each piece of mail before delivery."

If we accept your idea we also are agreeing to increase the standards we must meet for delivery.

If this is not a problem then your idea is great.

Exactly LHCB. That's where Rural Reach falls down. What is the incentive for aux routes to promote Rural Reach, when the regular routes could care less. They know they can get a rebuild at anytime if they lose too much. They won't fight all year to do more work for no pay until mailcount. If they have enough seniority they have absolutely no incentive to push Rural Reach. How can you have a union where all members aren't equal?

during count 09 I was doing aux rt. and fought for all I got.
Reg just let things pass by.
she knew she could have build up.
What did it accomplish for me?
got my rt cut. reg got build up.
If all had fought all could have gained.
Instead I got s_r_w_d.
IF ALL won't stand up for ourselves, we as a team will never WIN.

m/21297 We all have personal lives to..so going to every meeting is unrealistic. had a distric meeting weekend before last, a training this sunday, drove 2 hours each way, didn't want to spend 3 weekend in a row doing union stuff, have had some personal issues to deal with. i am a regualer 5 day doesn't effect me i have a job.

/m21318 now this I LIKE! and I agree totally with Pabak...why go to the EXPENSE of a count when they could use the data they already pay to colllect?

we KNOW why of course..cause they cant SCREW with their own numbers enough..im sure given time..they could manipulate them enough to make it beneficial to them instead of us...I would gladly accept a factual average...

we should all be pushing for their own data..to be used instead of the current...chain em up and shove it to them counts.

Surprise...
The USPS already possesses something that would make for a much fairer mail count, but because it would be much more difficult for them to skew and manipulate the numbers they have absolutely no desire to use it.

That "something" is the ACTUAL numbers each route receives throughout the year.

For those of us receiving DPS letters (I'm sure the majority) those DPS machines already count each letter. Those numbers are on print outs EVERY day all year long. They could be divided by the delivery days and produce a factual "average" for each route. THOSE numbers should be used instead of the dps letters received during a count period.

Carriers would still pull out any letters NOT in dps order to provide numbers for the conversion to raw letters.

FACTUAL numbers of delivery confirmation packages received on every route every day of the year are already available on scanner reports. Again those numbers could be divided to come up with a factual "average," instead of using skewed numbers of those received during a count when the USPS manipulates what you see and don't see.

Likewise the USPS already has the FACTUAL numbers of all accountable items received on every route, every day all year long. Again, an actual "average" could be applied.

When DPS flats are implemented nationwide (if ever) the machines will also keep track of their actual numbers throughout the year.

Basically, the number of things to keep track of during a count period could be reduced to a counting of the flats, parcels, raw letters and load time, provided a "standard load time" (which is what the USPS desires) hasn't been put in place. Likewise for "mark ups" which the usps has effectively eliminated for the most part anyway.

The "gray areas" of what determines a parcel or flat, etc SHOULD have been eliminated decades ago. What exactly prevents the NRLCA from working on this during the rest of year?

Then comes the biggie. Even if you wanted to keep the mail count in its present form, the factual numbers from end of dps reports, accountables, etc produce "averages." Those averages could be compared to the monthly "averages" and the mail count period should be held in the month of the year that most closely resembles the averages produced.

We want September. The USPS wants February. Why not hold it in the factual most representative month instead?

Frankly as long as the USPS knows when a count will be conducted they will manipulate the mail flow and screw us over EVERY single time. UPS and FEDEX deliver their own parcels during the count period, instead of paying us to deliver the "last mile" as they do the rest of the year. Sweetheart deals with bulk mailers ensure that the mail flow received will never be representative.

My solution is to have an arbitrator randomly select 12 count days, which will consist of 2 Mondays, 2 Tuesdays, 2 Wednesdays, etc. The catch here is that those days would NOT be announced in ADVANCE, but rather AFTER the mail has reached the offices. No time for the districts pricks to manipulate the processing in flow. Since "factual" averages could replace many of the items being counted, a simple supervisor or one counter could be used in most offices without additional personnel needed.

They certainly weren't needed 10 years ago, when carriers and rca's counted their own mail and only instructed management to count it if they didn't want to devote the time.

Of course all of these ideas would produce a "better way of counting the mail" that the arbit-traitor Wells demanded in his decision in 2002. It would also produce a much more fair way of doing so.

And the USPS has no interest in either.

/m21312 we COULD do all those things indeed...but helping those willing to help themselves...helps NO ONE if they cut off your mail....

having a clearly defined mail count guide...does nothing if you dont got the parcels to argue....nor the letters...nor the flats...

I know the guidelines..and fought for every second..and so did thousands of others...and we still lost our ass...even tho volume was indeed down..I NEVER had one SINGLE day with so little mail and parcels..as I did during count..

YOu cant aruge what you dont have...

its a 1.2 increase nov..20? 22? cant remeber the exact date...

Wave, I'm just being surly because I can't figure out WTF is so hard about doing a new pay chart. They could have had it ready months ago, it's not rocket science.

Have a good one.

I'm probably wrong then. I don't have the magazine close. I might have just seen the new EMA chart and assumed the salary chart was there too. My bad.

Postaltexan2 /m21304

1) " WE do not control the mail flow? The USPS controls the mail flow"

Personally I think this is exactly why we can close down the present mail count system. We don't have to prove they are cheating. We just have to prove we can't hope to prove if they are cheating.

The problem is what to replace it with. As we have many Rural Carriers who deliver under evaluation this fight will never be made.

2) It is true that things are so far in the Postal Service favor that we can't hope to have the advantage by next mail count. We can still take steps to move toward our favor. Some of the things that are with in our control are:

1. Help those who are willing to help themselves. dump those who will not help themselves. Base this on willingness to learn to present a supportable argument for their position. ( much energy is going toward the people who will never file a grievance. Not enough energy is going toward the people who are willing to learn to do something for themselves.)

2. We need to build a better strategy to handle mail count disagreements. This is in terms of getting our Association to act on them and getting the Postal Service to respond to the disagreement. (blue goose is the only one I have seen make any attempt in this direction so far.)

3) Support section for Mail Count Guide needs to be rebuilt in text format. This will make it easier to use search tools on it. It will also make the Mail Count guide a smaller download for dial-up connections.

Yes, chat at the normal time.. I hope everyone has remembered the time change.. See you there..

Thanks, Wave, If you got your magazine on Friday then I'll probably get mine on Wednesday. We are really behind here for some reason. I always knew WV was a little behind the times with most things.

I just got the November one on Friday, and it has it in it. This edition is the one with the convention minutes in it. It's really thick. Lots of good stuff in it.