What do you think?

The couple times I have gone to the South Branch, Ihave found it pretty useless for my needs. So I would not miss it. However, when I have been in there there were several other people there using the facilities. It would be interesting to do some sort of useage study. I am sure there have got to be some sort of figures for how many people use it and the circulation from that branch that is a bit more in depth than the dozen people who visit this messge board. I am sure Junad will have something useless to say!

Edited by author 11-05-2006 08:10 PM
richard, of course a very detailed study has been done that resulted in the director's recommendation. An analysis was done of all library uses and the branches are a luxury according to the figures.

Main library cost of loaning materials is $3.33 per user.

South brach cost is $6.82 per user.
Patrons at the so branch have been steady for several years but saw a drop in 2005.

No branch has seen a steady decline for years with a slight increase in 2005.

While I know all this is very important, I am interested in knowing if any of the 1400 people who use the so branch are from the 8th ward and what they think about the so branch. Thanks for your comments.

Confession: I've never been to an Evanston public library. I just use the Northwestern library, since I have very specialized needs.

From my thus-uninformed position, it nevertheless seems a shame to close the south library branch. It would limit south siders' access to library materials and services, particularly for those of limited transportation means. That would be a rather unfortunate blow to the schoolchildren of the area, who already seem to struggle with equal access to educational reasources.

If I'm in my car, I might as well keep going all the way to the main library where there's much more. I find the south branch pretty inconvenient and mostly use it for quick drop offs of returns when I'm running errands in the area. The sale books are cheaper than the main library as well, so when I'm looking for cheap paperback mysteries, I might stop in. Other than people who live within say 6 blocks, I'm not sure who it serves. Maybe someone who posts here knows.

I use the south branch library. I find it very convenient to select fiction for my mom. Someday when I have the time I would like to go there for myself. It is much easier to go to than the main library and I love the atmosphere. It is comfortable like an old shoe or a used bookstore. I would be sad to see it close.

When my kids were younger, we used the south branch library frequently. It had a very comfortable children's room and the selection was big enough for that age group. The staff is very friendly and helpful. It has a cozy, familiar environment. They had some nice programming for young children, too.

But mostly, now, we use the main library a few times a month -- they are more likely to have what we need. I really enjoy the south branch and would hate to see it close, but if people just aren't using it (and I admit we rarely do anymore), perhaps closing it would make sense. It's probably been at least 6 months since I have been there.

My main concern about closing it would be for lower-income people that live closer to the south branch and would not go to a library at all if the main branch is their only choice. But maybe these people aren't using the south branch anyhow, so this point is moot.

Branch libraries can be a drain on resources that return little but nostalgia and minor convenience to a small number of near by patrons. Generally Directors don't cut back on services without a very good reason, though with the Library being a City department the reason may lie outside of the Director's area of responsibility.

Without knowing basic data like usage trends (number of circulations, number of visitors, cost to operate etc over at least a couple of years) it is impossible to intelligently comment beyond the vaguest generalities.

Don't use the South Branch, never have. Have been in teh North Branch once. Love the Main library.

Ben

The space at the south branch makes it difficult to use; like most branch libraries, the selection is limited and some of the computers, etc. are old and slow. The children's area has quite a large Spanish section that we like a lot, and a fairly large room if the weird floor hump to get in isn't an issue for you.

I have to admit, though, that we most often go to the library in Skokie, as the children's room there is cleaner, better stocked, and better laid out for children in general. It has kid's games and toys and a seperate area for toddlers, school-age kids and teens.

I use the main library almost excllusively as most of the books I draw are fairly recent and have been on hold. While there I usually pick up s alrge print who-dun-it.

Though what I neglected to say is that if the branch had a better space and better equipment, we'd use it more often.

Rachel -

When my twins were in preschool, I took them there once. Whoever was on duty that day made me feel like my kids were in imminent danger of expulsion if they didn't sit down & be quiet, even in the children's room. Then diasaster struck when one of them needed to go to the bathroom. You would think that this had never happened before. I felt that I had to apologize profusely for asking for entrance to the washroom. Pre-schoolers toiletting needs are way too unpredictable for that. So I've never taken back there. The main branch has always seemed more hospitable for my kids with bathrooms, toys, more rooms to wander, computers, etc.

Diane, I had forgotten about that inconvenient bathroom, I recall having the same experienced with a newly potty-trained child. What I remember liking about the south branch was that there was not much room for the kids to roam, which was helpful when they were both under 3.

The new main library (although it's not so new anymore, but the old one was not as nice) is so good it really does make the rather antiquated branches unecessary. Ben's right that the remaining benefits of the branch are nostalgia and minor convenience.

Oh our beloved South Branch! Wonderful if you are a young family within walking distance. When my oldest was three we could ride the tricycle from home, to bakery, to post office, to the library, to the park. One time a librarian asked us "Have you read every train book we have?" I said "are there any train books we haven't seen?"

But, once both kids got to a certain age, and we were downtown anyway, the main branch is where we go. I think that South Evanston could sadly say goodbye to our branch, but there are many more mothers and nanny's at home on the north end and that branch is so nice and open and right next to Starbucks, it would be a real loss to anyone within walking distance to Central Street.

I would be much more willing to give up branches if the bookmobile came back.

Candace

I'd agree about the bookmobile, Candace!

Much as I love libraries, I have felt for several years that at least the south branch really could be closed without a great loss. I know it's popular with some seniors and stop-ins, but every time I drive by it's dead. We always go to the central library because the south branch is too small to have a decent selection of anything. It's convenient for people who walk in s. Evanston, but the main library is a relative short bike ride or el ride if you don't drive. For seniors, the Levy Center now offers some very good resources that make the south branch resources somewhat redundant.

I'm not sure about the north branch. Whenever I've gone in there, even during the daytime, it's quite busy with moms, kids, etc. It's bright and has play and reading areas. Maybe to help subsidize it, the city could assess some additional usage fees to active users. It's use and accesiblity is so localized that I see no benefit to south, west or central Evanston taxpayers, whereas the main library is accessible to everyone.

We really need to save the money. What bothers me is that there are many wasteful, redundant programs and services in the city that should be targeted before the branch libraries. I'm afraid that any money saved on library closings will simply be wasted on unique brand of Evanston porkbarrel. A few vocal individuals can be sufficient to keep these programs going (I know, they never meet with any opposition from Evanston's "silent majority").

There is a commitment that any money not spent on the branches would go to the enhancement of the main library collection etc.

The one time I wanted to use the South branch computers, I called and asked about their availability. At noon, I was told I couldn't get on for at
least 2 hours so I went to the main library. It seems that they need more
computer resources, not closing.

Kevin - there is a severe space problem at the south branch.

I used the South branch quite often when my children were young but not now. I do however use the North branch frequently as it is close to my office with decent parking and a pretty good selection of books. I have not been to the main library in a long time as I find it more cumbersome that the branches.

Oh my Reganomics on the 8th Ward message board. Usage fees of active library users? What ever happened to making a fundamental service part of the common good? Let's see I don't like that service, but don't want to shut it out completely so I know we'll make the people who value it pay for it! Fine for some things maybe, but not others. Um, can I opt out of paying for the additional police time spent in the eastern part of the ward? Really if they want more protection make them pay for it.

Computer and Internet access are big services for Public Libraries these days. There are significant portions of any library's user population that depend on free access to both for job searches, information, communication with family/friends/clients and recreation.

Ben

I have just returned from a budget meeting. Woe is me.

Ben, as a library director, you need to speak more clearly to an alderman. I think library access is essential. Are you saying we should charge for extras? Are computers extras?

Library access IS essential. The question we're dealing with here is how to provide the best services to the greatest number of people. If a consolidated system with more material can still be accessible to most Evanstonians, then maybe a beefed-up downtown library is the answer.

And I, for one, would GLADLY pay more to have more police presence in the eastern part of the 8th Ward. My husband and I always joke that we're going to take matters into our own hands and hire a police officer for just the corner of Custer and Brummel ...

Edited by author 11-07-2006 12:33 AM
Ann,

As a Library Director I've been reducing or removing fees were possible. No, I was poking at Tad's statement that user fees ought to be charged.

As to fees in a Library I think, and this is very much just my opinion, they serve one of two purposes.
1. the Library needs a way to compel patron behavior, i.e. overdue fines or lost book charges. Generally libraries are not in the punishment of patrons business, though I have known some library users who could benefit from a little punishment. Let me quickly add none of those people use my library. All my patrons are interesting and decent people deserving of the best service their money can provide. Please just bring whatever it is you borrowed back on time and in no more pieces than when it left the library.

2. Cost recovery for services that are new and may not be accepted by the public. Once the service is accepted as part of the library's function its cost should be part of the budget. We use to charge for video loans. When the video collection was started years ago the fee covered start up cost and made the idea seem less risky. Sure the expense was or seemed pretty big, but it got very popular and the fee became an income line in the budget. Well gee the patrons had already paid good tax dollars for us to acquire the materials and the library isn't Blockbuster with a profit motive, so why make people pay twice for an established service? So the Board dropped the fee.

Ann, a public library is one of the oldest real expressions of government providing for the common good. While it needs to be run in a sound fiscal manner the library's goals are very different from that of a profit making business. We should not confuse the two.

A good example is computer and Internet access. This is the really growing part of my... aah business. A year ago we had 4 PCs connected to a T1 line for the public. Couldn't keep the things free long enough to wipe the screen off. We added two more 8 months ago, more people showed up and the PCs are as busy as ever. Added WiFi so maybe people with laptops or palm pilots would use those instead and free up some PC time. Naw, now both services are always busy. We're remodeling the PC area and will be adding at least two more. This is in a community of 22,451 people. For citizens without a PC or a fast internet connection the Public Libray is the only free access they have to find or apply for jobs, communicate or educate.

The age of Google has been very good to us. Public Libraries are busier now that before the Internets.

I feel your pain, my budget meeting is this week.

Ben

OK, Ben, I agree with you - I didn't go back to Tad's message. I just returned from the corner of Custer and Brummel. I was decorating the streets near polling places with Vote for the Housing Referendum signs.

No one was around the BC corner but there was a lot of activity at Howard and Custer. Hangin out just lots of hangin out. I, of course, reminded all the nice young men, "Remember to vote tomorrow!"

Even when we lived around the corner from the south branch at Kedzie and Judson we went downtown to the library...so did many of our neighbors as well. Parking under the building is super-convenient and the beauty of the building makes you proud to live in Evanston. It doesn't seem to be that much closer than downtown in actuality. A south branch might make better sense if it were as far "south" as the north branch is "north". The location seems redundant to me. Maybe someone can do the Yahoo map and tell me I'm wrong.

Richard - since you asked me to post - I will. Richard you have not live here very long since the every year the library director as a budget cut suggest closing them. Usually a large number of citizens complain and the council keeps them opening.

My wife is a user of the North branch - I do go in at times - the North branch is used. One of my former neighbors who move to a condo on central uses the branch.

As for the North branch - I pointed out a Council the condition of the washrooms - Liz Tishdal come up with the idea to sell the adjoining building which the City owns to pay for the renovation of the washrooms.

This will not work - there is not enought room to do this - the library needs more space -

I would suggest the City combines the rental building space and the North branch and finds a tenant like a Starbucks. The tenant could pick up the cost of the needed renovation. The intire library has not been update in 30 years if not more! The City could provide one staff member the tenant would hire the rest. The politics here would most like prevent this - but it would work save costs and keep the North branch going-

I do not know enough about the south branch - to comment on if a similar idea would work there.

By the way I think the children renovation at the main branch will over run the costs - yet no one will be held accountable! wait and see.

You are correct, Ryan. Map not necessary.

Edited by author 11-08-2006 09:07 PM
Junad: Are you drunk or just crazy? I would never ask you to post and didn't! And I am surprised you showing such restraint and not commenting on something you do not know about, the South Branch.

Those of you who need to know the facts on the librarys should go to the city budget it can be accessed at the city web site - you can check my numbers - and publish your own - I have approx. them.

I found a few facts - number of patrons North branch 71,000
                                        south branch 54,000
                                        Main library 557,000

Total library budget $4,300,000

branch cost North $141,000
            South $188,000

I think it is interesting from a cost standpoint the branch libraries are very small in the budget picture - and highly used

cost per visit = approx - main branch $7, south $3.5 north $2 it appears Evanston politics is at work again the library administration and the board do not like the branches - rather than building a branch on the west side they created the $3 million children library renovation - which by the way would have been better used!

Richard do you own analysis if you do not like the one above -

Edited by author 11-08-2006 11:44 PM
Ann posted some different numbers from a study - those of you should with a strong interest should go get the study - given the library administration dislike of the branches it would be interesting to compare the City budget against the study. Remember staff at times will adjust numbers to prove thier points -

That is enough, Junad. Don't you see - we had a very good discussion going here. One person at a time states their reply. You come on and post and post and post. This is not a debate I am asking questions. You answered now shut up.

Edited by author 11-09-2006 01:14 AM
I think the study referred to by Junad was done in 1999 by Himmel and Wilson. This is 2006.


On October 30, 2006 I was provided with the following information:

South Branch annual visitors 50,600
The unit of measurment is the Items Lent
unit cost is $6.82 per item lent
So Branch Budget $289,430

North Branch annual visitors 70,191
unit cost $3.74
North Branch Budget $262,562
(we own the bldg so there is no rent)

Main Branch
annual visitors 529,310
unit cost $3.33

Total library annual budget $4.41 million

How Junadian can lying with numbers get. Evanston's population is around 78,000 so how can the main branch have 557,000 patrons? Those numbers are visit counts, likely from an electric eye or gate or checkpoint system All that tells you is how many somethings walked through the sensor. Such numbers are fun but tell you nothing about the specifics of a visit or really even broad patterns of use.

It's late but let's play with your numbers just a little bit. Umm the main library gets ten times the visits of the south branch and 7.8 times the visits of the north branch so we have a relative ranking, not much else. There are about 78,000 people in Evanston so every person in town and maybe some pets have visited the south branch 0.69 times, the north branch about 0.9 times and the main library about 7.14 times. Well that tells us a littel more.

 Now we could get fancy in hopes of extracting some meaning out of these numbers by say defining a area of likely users around each building and counting that area's population and comparing that to the number of visits that might drive the ratio of visits to population up a bit.

Let's say each branch has a population area of 22,000 potential patrons. South branch gets 2.4 visits per person, north about 3.2. What does that tell us? Very little without a comparison or a lot more info. Let's see, a library I know serves 22,000 people and gets at least 170,000 visits a year or about 7.7 per population. There is another village's bigge libray about 2.5 miles away that allows reciprocal borrowing, ie there is competition or a 'main branch' not far away. Using that as a bench mark the branches are woefully under utilized or from another perspective spurned by the local population.

Now 329,000 dollars is a lot to be tossing to two under used facilities, especially when the main library is clearly preferred. A third of a million dollars will get you more than a few full time experienced staff, benefit costs included, some equipment upgrades and a better collection. All in the one location that gets 7.14 visits per resident per year.

Seems like a no brainer to me. Any good service provider puts its resources where its customers/patrons are going and they are not going to the branches.

Still I dislike counter numbers they just don't tell you how the location is used. But I do know i a compact City like ours there is little reason to spread resources around when there is high demand with shortfalls in staffing or services and a highly used main library.

From my perspective the branches are not highly used and are taking funds that while small (and really when was any waste too small for you to whine about)would in the overall picture make some significant difference in service to the whole population of Evanston when reinvested at the main library.

Ben

Ann,

Your numbers were posted just as I responded to Junad.

Ann: You're the moderator of this message board! MODERATE JUNAD INTO NONEXISTANCE! He just likes to see his badly written posts out there. Stop entertaining him. And lord only knows why he keeps addressing me in his posts!

richard,

I thought I was the curmudgeon. By comparison, you make me appear benevolent. How about a little moderation on your DICTATES.

Whenever I have been at the South Branch, I always saw a few senior citizens reading newspapers and other periodicals. Considering there were never more than a few people in there at a time, they were a significant percentage of the patronage at the times I was there. It looks like these patrons are not taken into account when "items lent" is the measurement. (Unless they were also checking out books, too.) Of course, the librarians would know a lot better who is using the library and why.

Whether this is a valuable use of resources, to be a place for people to read the newspaper, is up to the city to decide.

Ben makes Junad's case in terms of benefit/cost reasoning. I think what Junad is trying to say is that once a city function is established, there is little likelihood that its reason for existence will ever be challenged. Coiuld those $$$ be better used elsewhere?

Edited by author 11-09-2006 12:58 PM
Richard,

Geez lighten up. This board has a long and interesting history of posters with rather skewed view points. You missed the 'age of Cliff' when any wacky idea was a good idea cause it just could be a good idea someday or some place. Clifftonian philosophy demoted personal choice and responsibility to in favor of the easy platitudes of the non-thinking or rather the not constrained by reality over thinker. I do fear the mention of his name will cause his benighted mis-reason to decend upon this gentle board once more sowing confusion and frustration.

Oh, and perhaps you might get a clue that if Ann hasn't bannished Vito or Junad as you demand it's you who may be missing out on some of the dynamics of this place.

Best,

Ben

Nobody is going to be banned. I am saddened that this board could have been used by other decision makers because these were very thoughtful comments re the library. We are receiving letters from patrons who support the branches but their remarks are not as real as yours. I thought I could just get pros, cons and I don't knows but alas....

I love Cliff, very unique.

Ann,

/m42 - Thankfully so.

In a recent conversation with Clif I gave him the web connect to the board. I hope he comes back.

Ann, out of curiosity, what was the cost of running the Bookmobile?

Some of my neighbors have overdue fines that prevent them from checking out books at the library, largely because it's too far to walk with kids. I think they would be better served with a regular Bookmobile visit.

Michelle - my wife was a bookmobile user years ago - before they eliminated in cost cutting move. She used to go over to Orrington school and use it when my children were smaller. You would have to go back in the budget quite a few years to find the cost. I believe Skokie still has a book mobile.

I spoke with someone today who asked, "Why is it that both branch libraries seem to be lumped together?" Isn't there an option to just close the South Branch? As much as I occasionally go off about Northwest Evanston, the library on Central Street makes more sense than the South Branch. The North Branch is a more remote site serving a population that is more removed from the Main Library.

Ryan - I think the politics of Evanston would prevent closing just the South branch - since people who lived in South Evanston would most likely complain why are the Rich people on the North side getting to keep their branch?
But I am getting the impress many people on this board want to elminate the branches?

I was in the bread shop on Central street on Saturday and someone had put up a posting about saving the North branch. I think there is going to be strong opposition to closing the North branch.

I could make a very compelling argument for closing just the South Branch. The North Branch is buried in a highly used shopping district...the South Branch seems a bit lost and is it really "south". If it were located in the heart of the Main St. retail district I might be singing a different tune...Howard Street anyone?

Howard Street could benefit from an influx of literacy. A library would be the perfect addition to all the cool restaurants and stores that are sure to spring up when that street becomes the new hoppin' place because of all our revitalization efforts!

Edited by author 11-10-2006 12:31 AM
For the cost of a bookmobile patrons could go online reserve a title and have it mailed to them with a free return mailer. Better, faster, cheaper. For no additional expense - to the taxpayer, they can go on line now and down load up to 5 free audiobooks or e-books and have them instantly and not have to return them, the file will expire after 21 day. They just need a Mac, PC or Palm for the download. More faster, more cheaper, maybe more better.

When it comes to libraries why, why do people just dredge up the same old ideas? Bookmobiles are expensive, inefficient and make little sense these days in a City like Evanston. Wyoming sure, compact Evanston no.

Howard St. would be a terrible place for a branch. Are we serving Evanston or Chicago with it? Even the old Osco site at Asbury and Oakton is too far south given our population density. Now the Walgreens site at Main and Dodge is not bad. Can we make them go out of business? Or tear down Crown and rebuild with a branch there. That's at least in the middle of south Evanston service area.

But really we don't need branch libraries as currently configured. Beef up the main library staff and add some services to move the library's reach out of the building. E-mail or IM reference 24 hours a day not that hard to do and not that expensive - Evanston is doing it now - have any of you tried AskAway, home delivery of books - Skokie is doing it now as are others via USPS, electronic books - Evanston is already doing it - have any of you tried MyMediaMall?

All of these services reduce the need for a branch. If folks want a quiet place to read the paper away from the spouse go to Starbuck or a local coffee shop.

Years ago when the South Branch was on the chopping block, there was a search for a new and better location. Howard street, I argued, was a great spot for a scaled down space -- a reading room type place. The expense was similar to a branch. The bookmobile was cut the year I left office and everyone knows that I was the person who kept it alive for its final years. The use was dwindling. If or when Robert Crown is rebuilt there will be a discussion about including a branch in the new building. We have talked about that for years. We might have placed the South branch in the Dempster Dodge shopping center way back when but the developer wouldn't allow it because it wasn't a sales tax generator. I believe the library board rejected the Levy Center as a brach possibility.

We are the only community with branch libraries, other than Oak Park. At some point we have to look at costs.

Ben,

Refreshing to see other approaches mentioned other than the old tried and tired. Many of the reasons for going to the library for research or information are now being provided by PCs -- for those who can afford or have access to them. I cover many papers every day by looking them up on the web. Perhaps one way to satisfy the need for "branch access" is to have PCs located throughout the city where people could access them.

Look at what technology is doing to postal mail -- less than 15% of business mail is now handled by the Post Office.

Let us face up to the creative destruction of technology.

You know, if I felt like the money saved was going to go into the children's area redesign, I wipe a tear and say goodbye to the branches.

One of the reasons that young families go to the branches is that they really are more family friendly when you have little guys. I'm still amazed now that I think of it that our brand new library didn't design any active/comfortable space for under-fives. Exactly two comfortable chairs for parents to rock, hold, nurse, or read to young children. Exactly one table and about three toys for busy ones to play with while older siblings searched for books. How is it that Skokie and Wilmette did such a great job with their children's sections and Evanston did not?

And the teen "section" is essentially useless for several teens who want to work on a project together. This is what I've learned now that I have a student at ETHS, that many teachers assign team projects to three/four students with the requirement that they work on it together outside of class. While some parts of the project can be done via email (if every student has access to a computer) at some point the students much spend at least an hour or so putting their project and its presentation together. That's just one reason why they need a teen section at the library, to have a centralized place to gather info and work together.

"They just need a Mac, PC or Palm for the download." This is exactly the problem - I know people who survive with disposable cell phones because they can't afford phone service, much less access to the Internet. If there was some kind of kiosk somewhere with the library catalog, or if schools offered library Internet access, maybe this service would work. I agree that a Bookmobile offers limited service and probably costs a lot, but at least it's something.

As it is, I think the South Branch is difficult for many 8th Warders to use (though I should point out that we've always had good experiences with the staff there; better than downtown.) And I'd love to see a children's section in the main branch as nice as the ones in Skokie or Des Plaines.

Edited by author 11-10-2006 10:44 PM
Junad, If you'd read closely you'll see that EPL already offers MyMediaMall - the downloadable ebooks, audiobooks and now some movies. This is free to library patrons. The cost is a function of population so I can't speak to EPL's actual cost, for my library it is a bargain.

However a virtual library is a very long way off. People will need a place to work as not all home/school environments are conducive to research, also the vast majority of materials are no online and some may never be, finally the ability to seek and get help from a live person face to face on structuring a question or understanding a resource can not yet be replaced by a machine.

Finally if you want to see organizational chaos try running something as complex as a public library without a director. Hell who's going to deal with all the patrons who will not be satisfied unless they can complain directly to the top person? And yet Junad yo decry the level of service at the main library but want to return the 'savings' of reducing service to the 'taxpayer' instead of more efficiently using the money at the main library to improve services.

Really Junad, if you want to make something better it is going to cost money, the Laffer curve is dead so is trickle down, want something better then pay for the tools or facilities or people to make it happen. And what is wrong with hiring people to fill positions that are clearly needed? Why do you always think that public employees are some kind of subspecies that exist to just take the taxpayer's money for no return. Want a good or great or better Libary, you are going to have to staff it. Without staff the better teen or children's area will not be built because it takes people manning the service areas to know what is needed and to make that happen.

Michele, every library around here has public service PCs for accessing catalogs or databases. Since you can't take the PC with you they are not any use for downloadable books. Also some people just like paper, hence my mention of the experiments with mailing books. It's not cheap but is being done in Skokie and a few other places. Actually to do research you don't need much in the way of hardware. EPL is a free WiFi hot spot. A low end Dell or HP laptop and a WiFi card gets you on the Internet at broadband speeds cheap. As for teens they are the hardest demographic to get in the building and their space needs are expensive to cater to. Freeing up 300,000 to 500,000 a year could do a lot to address facility and staff issue. The 'at least it's something' approach is why Evanston gets stuck with under performing branch libraries and ongoing wistful suggestions to bring back the bookmobile. Nostalgia is nice, but it doesn't solve problems.

Believe me the staff issues are the more important. A bad building can be overcome with a great (meaning enough good people) staff, a good building is a waste without the right folks and enough of them.

Vito, thanks, but Kiosks are a joke. They have to be built to withstand unmonitored public use which makes them unpleasant to use for more than a couple of minutes. Placement also precludes doing research, the user is just out in the open.

EPL is very much on the right track, it's shame it falls prey to the all to typical Evanstonian tendency to slam our own (often for some very unthinking reasons) rather than investigate and push the positive. Having worked in a few other places you all just do not know how good we've got it.

I'm tempted to offer a tour of the Library I'm responsible for, I'd be very uncomfortable going into EPL and trying to discuss the how an why of a facility I'm not connected with. First I encourage you to go to the EPL web site and research the service you have available to you.

Ben

Junad - your post is so ridiculous, I am deleting it. I didn't put a monitor on you but I am going to now. You are behaving like an ignoramous.

Michele everything you say yhe library should have they have. Come on folks let's get educated.

Candace - the new youth area redesign is very well funded.

Edited by author 11-11-2006 02:00 AM

I am certain you all are familiar but if not... http://www.epl.org/search/

http://www.epl.org/community/

http://www.epl.org/library/

Ann, I didn't mean kiosks in the library itself; I meant kiosks around the city where people who can't get to the library can access library services, for example, in or near the schools. Do they offer this to the general public?

Internet book ordering services don't help those who have to go to the library to use the internet.

Edited by author 11-11-2006 10:39 AM
Michele,

Please. Just pick up the phone and call the library if you can't or won't go on the "Internets". Some one will look up the title and call number and then you can reserve it. If a books by mail service is in place it could then get mailed out. That's what we do. Really, I think you believe that libraries haven't figured out that they also serve various disadvantaged groups.

Now if the patron doesn't have a phone they will have to send a letter. If they can't write they will have to come in or send someone in in their place. Please stop looking for obstacles.

Edited by author 11-11-2006 01:26 PM
No, wait a minute - you're working under the assumption that this person knows exactly what they're looking for. Browsing is possible if you have an online catalog, but I don't think that a librarian is going to take the time to do your browsing for you - or that this is convenient for the user.

The point is that even though there are lots of free services available (not just in the library) it's often difficult for disadvantaged people to access. I can get my needs met easily, either here in Evanston or out of town if need be - we even have a catalog of books that can be read online.

Truthfully, I don't know if services would get used if we made it easier - but I'd like to see the library user-friendly for everyone.

Michele,

It's called Readers Advisory. Public Libraries have staff specifically tasked (and trained) to help readers find fiction or non-fiction that matches either broad or specific criteria. They do the browsing for the patron, they make recommendations based on their reading, review of published reviews and experience/conversations with the patron. This can and is done in person, over the phone, by mail and via the Internets.

Really, I am thumping my head against the keyboard here. Public libraries, years ago, recognized that all kinds of physical, economic, educational or social handicaps cause people to be disadvantaged and thus not able to fully participate in the community. Addressing that situation and serving people with special needs is a key part of our mission. Each library deals with it in its own way considering the range of needs in the community and the range of other services available to meet those needs. Libraries try to complement not compete with other agencies/groups.

If you don't have a good idea of what Public Libraries offer please stop writing how libraries fail to serve until you have done some research.

Using that branch money to put Readers Services librarians out into the community, visting people at home or at the Levy Center or at ETHS during adult classes and on and on, isn't that a better use of the taxpayer's money instead of maintaining and staffing a quiet place for a few people to read the newspapers? I think so.

Ben

I do like the idea of a mobile librarian who could visit the senior homes, Levy Center, preschools/childcares, etc, to help people who cannot make it to the main library. He/she could bring a manageable bin of books to browse and "take orders" for specific books to bring the next time. Kind of like the bookmobile without the actual bookmobile. Perhaps the library is already doing this in one way or another. (A librarian went to the park district arts camp once a week with books kids could check out related to what they were learning about -- this worked out very well.)

It seems (and this is just my perception and I could be wrong) that the at least the south branch library is of greatest value to the very young and the old, and finding another way to provide services to these groups might meet their needs and cost a whole lot less. The Levy Center does have a computer room, so at least that service is already available in south Evanston.

These are several specific instances involving people I know in this neighborhood. They're not being served. If, as you say, there are services that can specifically address their needs, they don't know how to access them. If reconfiguring the library is under discussion, I think this issue should be addressed.

One of the neighbors I've mentioned has $11 in fines because she walked over a mile to the South Branch with 3 kids, and a timely return trip was too difficult. She hasn't been back - in her words, they "can't use the library now." She could probably work something out, but I'm guessing the prospect of that long walk and then keeping 3 kids busy while discussing the issue is pretty daunting.

Rachel,

EPL has a delightful program that does just that with the preschools and home day care. You can sign up with the library, and it will deliver to preschools or your home day care a huge bag of new books every week and pick up the old ones. Every once in a while you can see the packed bags in the librarian's office in the children's room.

Also, did everyone know that you can use your Evanston library card at Skokie and Wilmette (and more) and return the book to EPL?

The most impressive library service I ever saw was at the truly wonderful Children's Museum in Indianapolis. There is a huge reading area on the bottom floor, with big displays of books that are about the specific museum exhibits. If you have an Indiana library card, you can check a book out at the museum, drive home, read the book and return it to your local library to be eventually sent back to Indianapolis. Very cool, leaving a museum exhibit with a library book.

Edited by author 11-11-2006 04:46 PM
Believe it or not we do all the things you just said Rachel. Michele I have the statistics re # of questions answered and # of books located. Before we get convinced that our library isn't doing something, you all should really check it out. Just go to the EPL web site and get blown away. /m60
 

Michele and Rachel because you have so many questions, it would be very helpful for you and others to call city hall and ask for a copy of the performance report just issued by the library for use in our budget deliberations. For example, Michele, if you are worried about access to technology, you will probably be surprised to know that over 57,000 users accessed the library computers - not unduplicated. Anyone in your neighborhood who walks around all day and night with their cell phone glued to their ear can be at the library on the computer. In fact while the cell phone junkies are not homelss, it is also interesting to note that many of the users proprobably are.

Speaking of the web site - 7+ million connections have been made to the site.

I'm glad to hear the library is already doing a lot of outreach. This satisfies my only minor objection to closing the south branch.

/m67 Michele - I don't understand your post? Are you saying people don't use the library because they can't return books on time? If that is what you are saying about your friend, could you help her and drop the book off for her? Are the fines still accumulating? I am confused. Does this person get to the grocery store? That someone cannot get back to the library in time to return a book is not the basis on which I would ever consider a policy adjustment.

Yes, I'm saying that there are people who don't use the library because they can't get or return books on time.

I've taken her to the library before, but I found at some point that I can't be the neighborhood bus service (I've also driven people to the grocery store, to WIC, to legal aid, and to various food pantries, none of which are easy to access from our neighborhood) I'm not sure what the situation is with the fine - but I know that after a certain point, you just pay the cost of the book and it stops accumulating.

I'm not as concerned about other library services like internet access, but I'd like there to be easy access to books, since literacy is such a problem. My main point is that the South Branch does not fill this need.

Loaning books is one of the prime functions of a library. You get a book and then you return it.

I certainly do not support a library in every neighborhood and that would be the only way that people would be able to walk to pick up and return a book.

Michele: I asked about this person grocery shopping only because I was curious about this person's ability to function with normal day to day obligations,

Final thought - if you cannot get to the library to return what you borrow then you should not borrow.

I am bothered by the amount of tax dollars spent in Evanston on social services that don't address the issues of transportation and/or child care. A bookmobile or some similar solution might offer access - otherwise this means that the people who most need to borrow books don't get to.

We do provide free bus transportation to seniors. Public transportation for students is pretty cheap from what I remember.

How would transportation be provided, Michele - can you give me a model?

What social services that do not address childcare or transportation are you talking about?

I must take issue with you on the childcare matter. I believe as a community we offer more subsidized care than any comparable community. If you know someone who requires access to child care - please have them contact me immediately.

Michelle,

Is your friend not familiar with the bus system, or can't take a bus? The 201 bus goes right through our neighborhood every day but Sunday and goes directly to the Library, and right by the library again back to South Evanston. It's much easier to get to the downtown library by bus than the South Branch.

It's not easy to find out bus schedules or bus routes in Evanston. In fact, you would think that the library would be the best place to pick up a bus schedule or bus map, but no. There are no 201 signs up throughout most of the route and no benches or bus shelters on the 201 Route through Evanston either. Now, this may be because of the constant construction in downtown Evanston. It would be nice to know if shelters or benches are on their way in the future.

While it would be hard to haul three or four children at a time to the library and watch them while trying to find adult books, what most mothers do is to team up. Have one adult sitting with the children in the kids department while the other picks out adult materials, and then trade off.

One of my earliest memories is of my mother scrambling to find our overdue library books, always missing one, and always, always having to pay late fees because our family was so disorganized. Every time I have to pay an overdue fine, I think of my mother but I also figure it's my user fee for our terrific library. Assure you friend that she's not the only one who had to pay late fines. It happens to all of us eventually.

http://evanstonnow.com/

go to Evanstonnow.com and vote in the branch library poll

Ann, I've looked over the budget, but can't find the cost (or what I really am looking for is % of budget) for each branch library. Is this figure available somewhere?

I really like South Branch. The book group is excellent and they librarians are great with my grandsons.

I find South Branch to be much too small, the lack of parking nearby makes it difficult for handicapped folks to access it easily and the location is so close in proximity to the main branch that it creates an argument to close it. If South Branch must remain open, would it be possible to move it to another location? Perhaps to the old Frank's Nursery and Craft location at the Dodge/Dempster Shopping Center? Such a move would add parking, increase the available square footage for the library and have the added benefit of servicing more of the City's west side. ETHS students, Levy Senior Center visitors and anyone who uses the public transportation that services Dodge Avenue would greatly benefit from a library in this location.

First of all, I'd like to praise our alderperson for initiating and maintaining this message board. Next I'd like to reveal my personal bias: I'm a writer and the co-author of dozens of children's and young adult non-fiction books. So I have a double vested interest in libraries: they provide research materials for the books we write and then they buy them!

That said, 30+ years ago I was a young mother (no car) with three small children. Dragging them by bus to the downtown library was difficult at best and costly at the worst. On those rare days when my husband carpooled I'd take our sons and daughter to the South Branch library for storytime and to select books for the following week. The place was a lifesaver, providing entertainment and crafts in a homey setting full of books. And back then the bookmobile came to our neighborhood once a week, too!

Now our home is a veritable library, filled with Fradin books and signed volumes by our children's author friends as well as yard sale finds I've picked up for our 6 grandchildren. But I'll always hearken back to the days when I was a young working mother of three, relying upon the South Branch for an endless source of storybooks for my children. So for other young mothers seeking refuge in a bookish setting for their children and themselves, or for seniors who prefer to avoid the hyperactivity of downtown Evanston, or for the preteens who can ride their bikes or skateboard to the South Branch, KEEP IT OPEN for at least a few years and put an end to the annual hoo-hah about closing it and/or the North Branch.

The downtown library is a wonder. No doubt about it. But the branches are for those who want easier access, a more mellow setting, and a walk-to, bike-to venue. The scholars, thinkers, visionaries and, yes, wordsmiths of the future will be nurtured in those branches.

Judith,

As admirable as your descriptions of the libraries are, the issue is, where on a rank ordered scale of priorities do they fit in.

Unfortunately funding is a scarce resource and limited. If we choose to keep the branch libraries -- what else goes?

I prefer the main branch in fact I prefer Skokie), but neighborhoods need libraries.

Mark,

In a time of declining city revenue, what are you willing to give up to keep the branches?

Or just raise taxes and fees?

The branches should be closed.

I have heard no council discussion lately re keeping or eliminating the branch libraries.

The branch libraries serve a miniscule amount of our total population. At a time when the city is considering furloughing employees and otherwise reducing services, it is foolish to maintain the branch libraries. If there are underserved residents in those areas, there may be more cost-effective ways to serve them without maintaining separate facilities for them.

I agree - get rid of the branches.

Sorry, I don't agree. The purpose of the library system is to provide reader services, which the branch libraries do. Eliminate the branches and you'll eliminate library users and lower circulation. I for one would never get a chance to go downtown to use the main library, and I'm sure many other people are the same (I use South Branch almost on a weekly basis). If you lower library circulation, we'll probably end up laying off staff anyway, simply because they wouldn't be needed. The library system is not a job-works program.

The only reasonable alternative is to find some middle ground with a combination of reduced services and reduced staffing. Hopefully, this would only be on a temporary basis until the city's revenues come back up.

I've been using the Skokie library a lot over the last couple of years. When I think of the depth of some of their collections, particularly video, Evanston comes in a poor second. I can find numerous videos on almost any subject my kids are studying in school. I salivate over transferring the branch budgets to beefing up collections.

Tom--I am so surprised to hear that you would never make the trip to the main library. I am curious to know why not? It is 1.2 miles away from the South Branch and well served by public transportation. The collection is much larger and more diverse and provides many more events and services.

I too wonder why anyone would go to the South branch and not the main library. Is it just a comfortable place to sit and browse? How often do those users have to get materials transferred from the main library?

I have often thought that the library should partner with the school libraries and the community centers, and allow people to pick up hold materials from other locations. Obviously, it would need coordination and a cost-benefit analysis would be required, but it would provide services beyond the main library and would eliminate the costs of the branches.

MIndy - I like that idea. Getting more people involved in the school and it's building would be great. I'm sure there would tons of problems to work out - like security and mixing collections.

I'll third Mindy's idea. My understanding of the support for the South Branch (which I heard secondhand) is that it's used primarily as a comfortable reading room. While I see the benefit of that, it benefits a minority of users, most of whom could easily use the downtown library for that purpose.

As far as mixing collections, there is already a system in place to address that: we recently discovered that you can return Skokie's materials to Evanston and vice versa.

Michele, et. al.

You can return any North Suburban Library System (NSLS) book to any other NSLS library. And of course, Evanston is part of the CCS (Cooperative Computer Services) consortium of libraries, which essentially means that you have access to the collections of all the member libraries.

There would be no problem mixing school and public library collections because every book has a barcode for that library. It would definitely require more staff time and a dedicated van to travel from one location to another to transport materials. But it is a question of logistics that should at least be discussed in the context of eliminating the branches. EPL can use some out of the box thinking on this kind of stuff. (And isn't that what the City Council asked for - input from the public on budget cuts? Cuts should be discussed with an eye to how to maintain the maximum amount of service with the minimum of cost.)

Edited by author 10-06-2009 11:38 PM
Another thing I like about this idea: People with kids in the schools, who might otherwise not make a trip to the library, would find the local school more convenient & perhaps less intimidating.

After years of attending PTA meetings, there were often discussions about how to get the neighborhood more involved in the school. There are so many things that go on, especially in the grade schools, that could use a little more attendance or volunteering from neighbors. Once folks have been in the building for one thing, it may be easier to stay longer or come back for another.

Especially in the case of Oakton, some more neighborly interaction might help dispel some of the persistent rumors.

   To answer to Mindy and Jeaniemarie question: I use the South Branch because live in South Evanston, I catch the Metra on Main Street, I frequent the coffee shops & restaurants on Main Street and get my newspapers at the Main Street news stand. The South Branch library is, therefore, very convenient for me. If anything, I would like the South Branch to move further south to Main Street and for the city to invest MORE money in the South Branch library.
   Believe it or not, there are people who use the South Branch library for adult reading and not just to get children’s books or videos. I might add that the library is also part of the local economy, supporting local businesses by providing a constant flow of foot traffic and a local gathering place. It’s not just an obligatory city service just to help kids.
   I would like to city to explore ways to move the South Branch library to Main Street by either: 1) Partnering with a local coffee shop in that area and to provide a tax incentive for both the rentor and the coffee shop; or 2) Providing a tax incentive to any developer who provides a space for the South Branch library around the southeast corner of Main and Chicago. I also think the library and its branches should be held to some type of economic development standard, measured by how they work with local businesses in partnering events and enhancing the visits to the area.
    I think Evanston’s Main Street could be as vibrant as Central Street and not only make it easier for South Branch users but also help the local businesses in that area.