Ouch! Grayhound :-(

Looking forward to the meeting Wednesday.

I also should mention that "History" is one of the reasons I've run the MCR. I truly enjoy this race. I've run for GLRR twice (in the 80's), the WCRC (in the 90's and in '04), the Rogue Runners (in the 2000's) and a team of all "Dave's". I've run every leg but the first, and done this race for ONE reason: camaraderie

I enjoy seeing all of the familiar faces from over the years that I've run and raced in the Merrimack Valley.

Hi Dave, I'll be at the GCS meeting Wednesday and look forward to seeing you and listening to your talk.

Mike, everything Dave did two year's ago was above board and with my knowledge. He played by the rules as he always has during the 26 years I've known him. BTW Dave is more of a grayhound these days then a fox :-)

BTW: Steve, Dave, Mike if you'd like to discuss this personally I'd be happy to talk with you.

dave.dunham@comcast.net

Cool. Mike thinks I'm a "fox".

I cannot find any rule on the Mill City Relay's that I would be violating by legally changing my USATF club affiliation at any time I chose. I have been a member of the Winner's circle for many years (I have also been a member of the Rogue runners and I'm currently a member of Hockomock Swamp Rat's and Western Mass. AC). My reasons for being a member of CMS for USATF purposes are my own, my reasons for being a member of WCRC are for fun events such as the Trav's trail run, the Merrimack 2/4/6 mile, the Hangover Classic, and other events such as Mill City.

Mike, if you don't trust my ability to check memberships, perhaps you would be willing to assist in the process? I am willing to help this year as I did two years ago.

Edited by author 11-13-2006 04:17 PM
To explain: It's ironic that the most recent (and obvious) subversion of the intent of the USATF membership rule was done on Dave Dunham's behalf by the Winners Circle Running Club. Dave was (and still is) an active member of the Central Mass Striders. And, CMS is not part of the Mill Cities Alliance. But, in 2004, Dave was able to run on the WCRC Men's Masters team because he switched his USATF affiliation to WCRC before the race and then switched it back to CMS afterwards. And, while I have no reason to believe that Dave wouldn't do a fine (and honest) job as a USATF "number checker" (if in fact he really wants to do it), it's just a little like allowing the fox to count the eggs in the hen house. Therefore, irony.

Edited by author 11-13-2006 03:52 PM
Guys, you'll have to excuse my ignorance, but I really don't get the irony comment? Maybe that, in a certain way, is also ironic that I don’t’ understand what you mean:-) As for the service that DD has offered, this is a blessing IMHO. It will help preempt race day disputes. Last year a number of our board members had their day ruin when they had to preside over a race day dispute. BTW that is the reason we held up the results for such a long time. This disupte effected everyone since we had a later than usual awards ceremony. This may come as a surprise to some, but we do have a process in place to address disputes/grievances. Although not used every year, this process has served us well over a long period of time. As for clubs outside the Merrimack Valley, we have several existing Mill Cities Alliance members that fit this criteria (i.e., Somerville RR, GAC, North Shore Striders) and this year we very happy to announce we will have two more -- Mystic Runners (Medford) and the Shamrock Runners (Woburn). Both these new clubs will be limited to two teams each. Unfortunately we need to be somewhat restrictive to make sure we can handle the additional capacity at our hall. I have spoken to both organizations and they understand our situation. MCR is a very popular event, as evidence by the five clubs currently on our waiting list, however we have found through the years that clubs have come and clubs have gone, some clubs have grown while other clubs have shrunk so the mixture of the clubs is always changing to match this dynamic.

Edited by author 11-13-2006 02:47 PM
Michael Wade writes :
<<That, my friends, is what's called "irony".>>

You betcha. I've written at least 3 posts here today but deleted them before I sent them.

It will be interesting to see which runners won't be allowed to run this year because they broke a rule. We can be comforted to know that a number of teams from outside the Merrimack Valley have been invited to run.

That, my friends, is what's called "irony".

That would be a tremendous help. I will email you the teams as they come in. All teams must be submitted by Nov 26, so you'll have a few days to do the check and this will allow me time to notify any teams of violations.

So, is someone on the Mill City board going to check membership status (USATF) for all runners who take part in the race?

If you are looking for a volunteer to do so, I'd be happy to.....

Edited by author 10-29-2006 12:12 PM
Perhaps I truly am the one that doesn't get it. It looks like "anti-runner" stuff is alive and well in the northern hinter lands.

This from the New Hampshire Grand Prix "group think" department at the end of the just completed series. This was about a runner be told not all the "I"s were dotted or the "T"s being crossed, so the runner was SOL.

=========================================================== =

To be a Granite Runner, it is not enough to have to run in all the races: you are required to register as representing your club in all the races. Lynn Wiles was not registered as part of the GDTC team in the Jackson race.

We had this same problem last year with two GSRT runners. It isn't fair to count someone as a Granite Runner candidate if that runner doesn't represent his or her club in an NHGP race.

Please note that at last year's meeting the clubs discussed and voted that any results corrections must be reported before leaving the race site (as long as those results were posted at the race site to give everyone a fair opportunity to report errors such as missing club affiliations). It is the responsibility of the runners to check the results on site to make sure their age, gender, and club affiliation are correct. You can help by stressing this to your team members.

I congratulate Lynn Wiles on his active participation in the series and am sorry that he doesn't qualify as a Granite Runner this year.

Michael,
I’m not sure what “While allowing those that run in USATF events for other teams (but without a number) the ability to pick and choose which MCR club they run for.” means, but I think you make an excellent suggestion re: submitting a club membership roster prior to the relay. Or perhaps simply a roster of those runners who might be in the particular situation we are discussing.
And clearly, there’s nothing to prevent a determined club or individual from subverting the intent(s) of our current rule, which is to prevent “outsiders” from participating in the relay (We want it to continue to be a special event reserved just for Mill Cities Club members) and to prevent any MCR club from becoming overly competitive in one way or another. And as Steve Moland points out, there’s nothing to prevent a runner from joining a MCR club purely for the purpose of running in the relay. But our present rule does a lot to eliminate this possibility. Granted, and unfortunately, at the expense of bona fide club members such as you mention.
We did discuss this rule at our recent meeting. The general upshot (as I interpret it) being that:
1. before the rule was in place, there were numerous attempts by various clubs and individuals to win the club trophy or individual categories by hook or by crook…
2. the rule has prevented this from happening since it’s been in place.
3. let’s keep it in place.

A formal vote was not taken, however, it was pretty clear what the outcome would have been.
Hopefully, with the help of suggestions such as yours, we’ll come up with an acceptable solution to this problem.
Marshall McCloskey
MVS representative, MCR board

Actually Dave, according to the USATF web-site, the 90 day clock starts from the athletes last race with their current USATF team. So, they can apply for a change of affiliation anytime provided that its been 90 days or more since their last USATF race. And, even the 90 day rule has a loophole. An athlete can petition to have the rule waived provided they get a letter from their current USATF team granting them a release.

Just for the record there is a 90 day waiting period to switch club affiliation. This would require an athlete to change affiliation by September 3 in order to be eligible for MCR.

Matt,
Ethics should prevent you from calling your sub-15min 5k friends, not MCR rules.
If you can get your sub-15min 5k friends to join your running club 1st, then by all means sign them up. I have no problem with that. Increasing membership is the goal of most clubs.
As Mike said, clubs can (and have) legally bypassed this rule by having the runner change USATF club affiliation...at least for the MCR. So the rule really doesn't prevent anything, just makes it more difficult for the clubs who want to win at any cost, and prevents runners from me participating because I won't change affiliation just to run a relay....even though I'm a member of a MCR club.
But at least we don't have chaos anymore......:-0