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Nancy McGuirk |
03-12-2006 05:35 PM ET (US) |
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Welcome to our George Lucas Education Foundation (GLEF) conversation. Thanks for joining us! We invite you to take the opportunity to explore the resource that GLEF and the magazine EDUTOPIA provide. After reading the article "Lead, Don't Lecture" by Ninive C. Calegari and Daniel Moulthrop in February's issue feel free to get a glimpse of what they have to offer. |
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nmcguirk |
03-16-2006 04:10 PM ET (US) |
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We are beginning our conversation today and hope you share any thoughts you have about the article and video clip. My general feelings on the topic are that as teachers we like to have complete control over the classroom setting. I feel that is not always in the best interest of the student, however. Students need to learn how to make logical decisions and choices for themselves in a safe, guided environment which could/should be the classroom. Developing a relationship and knowing each student provides the teacher with important background information. This relationship makes coaching or mentoring them easier. You learn to know when to push them harder and when to back off. |
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Jerry Garfunkel |
03-17-2006 10:32 AM ET (US) |
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After reading the article, Lead Don't Lecture in Edutopia (Feb.'06)
http://www.edutopia.org/magazine/ed1articl...t_1451&issue=feb_06
I was struck by the importance of Classroom Dynamics. Classroom management skills are essential especially in a contructivist learning environment where classroom activity may be (must be) controlled yet appear to be on the brink of chaos. Often this is because the classroom is in deed on the brink of falling into chaos, save for the classroom management skills of the teacher.
Built into the classroom management system should be time for the teacher to spend one-on-one time (mentoring/coaching/caring) with each of the students while the other students are (busily and productively) working on their projects. (Note the assumption that the one-on-one mentoring is much more accomadating in a PBL environment.)
In another GLEF video, I once heard ". . .at the end of the day it should be the students who are tired, not the teacher." The comment reflects on the role teachers play today - classroom manager, coach and mentor, and less model and lecturer (and chaser and hollerer and disciplinarian and baby sitter).
Abbrev:
PBL project based learning,
GLEF George Lucas Educ Foundation |
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Nancy McGuirk |
03-17-2006 09:57 PM ET (US) |
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I like the point you make about how "...at the end of the day it should be the students who are tired, not the teacher." I had just mentioned this to a colleague and we thought about how the preparation time and energy before the lesson are where the teacher may tire, allowing the teacher/student time to be less exhausting and more rewarding. I think this allows a teacher the time to observe and reflect on what the students are doing as they are doing it, which is important when developing their individual skills. I also like the idea in the article that says, "Not only do I want to coach them, but I want them to learn to coach each other, too." This also frees up the teacher, and allows that important level of learning to happen for the student. Having the student teach the concept deepens their level of understanding. |
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Jerry Garfunkel |
03-18-2006 07:58 PM ET (US) |
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That's a good point. Not only can the students help each other, some can help the teacher as well - changing the teacher's role even further. As you noted, Nancy, one of the best ways to learn something is to have to teach it to someone else. Perhaps we ought to turn to some students to do just that. The teacher should take advantage of these students' skills and talents - that is, build a regular place for these activitites into the classroom porcedures.
Another important point emerged from the Lead Don't Lecture article: A San Francisco teacher helps his students evaluate the quality of the information they get off of the internet. This is becoming an increasingly important topic (skill) as the Internet get increasingly cluttered with both good and bad information. |
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Nancy McGuirk |
03-18-2006 08:25 PM ET (US) |
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I agree that students need to be coached on the considereing the validity of the information they are receiving from the Internet. I guess knowing the source of the information would be one clue when developing "web literacy", as the article calls it. |
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Lisa Wong |
03-18-2006 11:19 PM ET (US) |
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I agree with both of you about the subject of web literacy. Kids so often find information and assume it is true. They need to learn that just like mass media, the internet also is full of marketing and other agendas that may bias the information. When I've given research projects to my kids in the past, I always required them to tell me where the found the information, and answer leading questions that may them think about the "agendas" of the source.
What struck me most about both the video and the article is the need for students to be able to work together and work independently from the teacher. So often teachers are forced to teach to the test, and therefore elimate learning how to think independently from direction. Decision-making skills are so important, but often teachers and parents find it easier to eliminate the choice and independent thinking because it is quicker that way. We are in this constant battle between time and value. In the short term the quicker solution often seems as if can have equal value to the longer, but more independent learning. However, further evaluation and time most often reveals the diservice we are doing our student by taking the "shorter" way.
Finally, I wanted to comment on the idea that "You learn best when you make sense and make your own meaning." One day I was riding home from work, and I had an overwhelming feeling of happiness in reviewing my day. There was nothing extraordinary that happened, but I had reaching a child that I thought I was failing. I guess that is extraordinary in a way. Anyway, it brought me to thinking about the joy and sense of accomplishment one can experience by simply having a sense of purpose in there day. Often many go through the motions hoping to feel that sense of purpose, but finish the day only knowing in logically instead of feeling it. It brought me thinking about the mission statement of our district. Instead of stating many goals, and purposes in a lengthy statement, should our goal as teachers be simply "To give a sense a purpose to our student each day." |
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Meg |
03-19-2006 10:14 AM ET (US) |
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Edited by author 03-19-2006 10:15 AM
I was struck by the following sentence from the Edutopia article: “For many, teaching is about coaching -- understanding the specific needs and skills of each students, and then, to a certain extent, teaching them individually” (p 52). I think that it is extremly important that teachers understand their students’ individual needs and then work to assist them to develop the skills they need to improve their abilities. This requires a huge amount of time and effort on the part of the teacher. And like Nancy was saying this effort and time usually takes place during the prep for the lesson so teachers are available for their students during the teaching period. Teachers have to create lessons that will allow them the freedom to assist students individually while also making sure that all students are learning. It is a bit of a balancing act but I believe that proper planning makes all the difference! |
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Chuck |
03-19-2006 12:02 PM ET (US) |
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Like many of you I found the article very interesting. It is challenging to get to interact in a meaningful way, 1 on 1 with every student especially when you have @ 100 of them, though that is exactly what I am attempting to do with my SS students as they embark on thier own mastery projects.
I agree that informatiom literacy needs to be woven into the curriculum. |
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Linda Fuller |
03-19-2006 12:30 PM ET (US) |
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Not officially a part of this discussion group, but wanted you to know how much I enjoyed the articles and, most importantly, the topic. "Pure lecture" is "poor lecture" to me. I am of the school that leading not lecturing is what is most productive for a class. My "famous" quote to my students is that there are no right or wrong answers, just weak and strong answers. It is their job to find their voice of strenghth; that is what they firmly believe in, interprete, or feel to be true, backed by research, reasons, evidence, example, and support. Much more provocative and life lasting than picking the letter d. in a multiple choice test. Great work Nancy and Lisa! |
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Nancy McGuirk |
03-19-2006 03:41 PM ET (US) |
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Part of the article by Alice Kawazoe mentions the "... worry that all young teachers are exposed to is doing this kind of regimented teaching, and they haven't had the practice in being thoughful." In my experience I haven't seen a reliance on the textbook, to a fault, by new teachers. I see them as the ones who are often more willing to try new things. Maybe I am too optimistic. Does anyone else feel that way? |
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Lisa Wong |
03-19-2006 04:51 PM ET (US) |
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You are not being too optamistic. I agree with you that new teachers more often than others are willing to try new things. The problem lies in the system because after a while, those new ideas and innovation are often squashed by the "You can't do that", "That won't work", and the lack of support by the system to encourage new methods. |
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Meg |
03-19-2006 04:57 PM ET (US) |
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I agree. I think new teachers are open to try new things. However, look how many experienced educators have joined TEAM. These people are definately open to trying new things in their classrooms. Maybe it has more to do with the teachers willingness to grow alongside their students, learning from and with them. |
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Brian Smith |
03-19-2006 05:49 PM ET (US) |
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Both the video and article were provocative. I especially appreciated the video with the fourth grade teacher and the challenges his students face at home and on the streets. Despite living in such an opulent community (E.H.), my own students endure remarkable hardships and we all need to be reminded to be flexible and compassionate with our students. I liked the article's angle of giving kids experiences, and to coach kids. A great musician once said he hated school as a kid because all teachers ever did was to talk "at kids" instead of to them. I always consider this insight when I teach, and the article/video drove this point home. Great stuff. Thanks. |
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Jeannine |
03-19-2006 10:06 PM ET (US) |
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Edited by author 03-19-2006 10:07 PM
in my senior year of high school i went to john marshall elementary school the first two periods of the day to help in the art classes. lisa thayer was the art teacher at the time. i had an idea at that age that this was something i might want to do with my life and my guidance counselor, my parents, and the art teacher set it up for me. i had already had enough credits to graduate and had fulfilled all my requirements.
guess what i do for a living today. i have been teaching art for twenty years and i love what i do. i consider myself lucky. someone listened to me took an interest and pointed me in the right direction.
if a school can do that on a large scale i think it offers kids the incentive to engage in their own learning and build a sense of esteem which foster a love of learning. discipline issues take a back seat because students are engaged and passionate about what they are doing.
when students follow their interests they are more motivated and challenge themselves. higher levels of excellence are achieved through this type of learning process. |
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Heidi |
03-19-2006 11:05 PM ET (US) |
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Edited by author 03-19-2006 11:07 PM
Although there are the stand out teachers, like the ones in the articles, there needs to be a change from the top down in order for children to feel motivated and engaged on a daily basis. What a great experience it was for Jeannine and what a great thing that would be if EVERY student could feel the same way, but many teachers feel the pressure to make sure that every page of the text book has been covered and the grade level curriculum has been presented from start to finish.
The reason I am sitting on that side of the fence is because I had a very young student who felt much like Omar for that matter. He came from a bad place with little support, sibling rivalry that took every ounce of self-esteem away from him, and parental support that was either defensive or completely absent. Recognizing this, I went out of my way to make sure that he received every extra ounce of energy and concern that I could possibly give him and helped him act upon the few interests that he had, making him feel good about himself. What a great academic year he had, and his personal growth and increase in self-esteem was amazing.
Although I still touched base with him on occasion since that time, he has slowly withdrawn from not only his peers and new teachers, but even me. Having a 30 second conversation is a difficult task now, when I used to have to force him out the door at the end of the day so that he did not miss his bus. It was great that he had this fantastic year where he felt like a person, but he is now withdrawn and attends therapy sessions because the next sets of teachers that he had did not reach out beyond the plan book.
Is this the teachers' fault even though they have presented the information that they were required to? Should the teacher go beyond academics and reach out to students on a personal level, or would that make them "cross that line"? There has to be a better balance! |
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Nancy McGuirk |
03-20-2006 07:02 PM ET (US) |
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Edited by author 03-20-2006 07:03 PM
Heidi,
In response to your comment/question I feel that if this were a "coach" you definitely would go out of your way to do as much as possible for the child because they are part of your team. They play a role no matter what in the big picture. I don't think you can wish those serious problems away, or ignore them. I also believe other kids have a sense of which of their peers need more attention and would understand the time spent to meet those needs, or how the group could come together to help in some way. There is a whole different mind set when thinking as a "coach/mentor". |
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Kathy |
03-21-2006 06:58 AM ET (US) |
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Edited by author 03-21-2006 07:00 AM
Nancy and Lisa I liked your article and videos. The video made the point that we have to reach beyond our classroom walls and make connections within our student’s day to day lives. So many times we lose site of those other influences and issues in the home environment. A home visit may not always be an option but to connect to the student outside of the classroom should be a must. We need to take an interest in our student’s lives so that they realize that we care about them and not just ourselves and our curriculum. By attending sporting events or activities that these students participate in and showing our support we extend ourselves outside the boundaries of our classroom and make a difference in their lives. We need to find a way to connect to each and every student in some special way and make that child realize that we value them as individuals. By going that extra mile the students see us differently and then many times want and choose to do more in the classroom.
In understanding what interests the student we then can find the means to inspire this child within the classroom. By providing activities that tap into his dreams and interests they become self motivated to learn and will take the lead and allow us to then become the coach. This is a process that needs to be developed over time and can happen in most classroom situations. |
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Susan Lycke |
03-21-2006 10:06 AM ET (US) |
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I believe differentiating instruction for every student is basically being their coach....I am an ESE teacher in Florida and it is amazing how many teachers have difficulty thinking that it is up to them to make sure every student is learning the information that they are teaching. If a student does not "get it" the first time, then it should be the teachers job to revisit the information but in a different format. Some children need one on one, some need manipulatives, some need to hear the information as well as see it, and all need to make a personal connection with new information as often as possible. Coaching a student through the learning proccess is all teachers responsibility and evaluating their knowledge can, be done in a variety of ways, not just the traditional methods. |
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Erin |
03-21-2006 07:39 PM ET (US) |
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Edited by author 03-21-2006 07:41 PM
Great choices, Nancy and Lisa! I really enjoyed reading the article and watching the video. Everyone has made such valid comments with regard to coaching and individualized instruction. I agree that although it is definitely a challenge to step "off the podium" and make learning more experiential, it is worth it to enable kids to discover (or rediscover) their intrinsic desires to learn, as Osvaldo was able to do with Omar. Unfortunately, students sometimes forget how to work independently as they are more used to being given information as opposed to seeking it out themselves. It requires some retraining and structure in order to eventually find a balance of control within the "chaos." It is an ongoing and sometimes difficult process, but it is worth it because it fosters "true" learning. What Heidi said reminded me of the wellness video we saw at EHMS not to long ago- it was called "Seeds of Greatness" or something- please correct me on the title if you know. In the video, three teachers were honored for the positive effect they had on a child. One particular student was so grateful to his teacher for taking the time to make a connection with him- even though he ended up moving and not seeing him much after that. (I won't give away the ending- it was a real tear-jerker.) Even though your student has regressed, Heidi, I am sure you have had a positive impact on him- and you should continue your attempts to connect (you got through to him before, right?). Like Kathy said, even attending a game or participating in a school event lets students know you care and can possibly motivate them to care more about their own work. This contributes to their view of you as a coach/mentor as well. |
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Jerry Garfunkel |
03-22-2006 11:49 PM ET (US) |
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Heidi brings up a good point that it often isn't enough to be successful with students, going above and beyond the "normal" teacher role to make a difference in a kid's (academic) life. The affect you may have on a child in one year may be wiped out by a different teacher (or different circumstances) the next year. Kids grow up and lose some of their innocence. And as for the important affect those teachers had on the kids during the time they were with those teachers, it withers, naturally as other "non coordinated influences" affect the child in later years. What do I mean by "non coordinated influences", it is what Heidi was referring to in a school system that doesn't coordinate the child's journey, K-12, very well, from year to year and from teacher to teacher.
It seems the only way to get around a school system like this, when a teacher cares personally about a particular (set of) student(s) is for the teacher (mentor/coach) to take a personal mentoring interest in the child's life through grade 12.
(Isn't that what the original concept of a "guidance counselor" or "academic advisor" was, except they get paid to play that role.) |
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