Edited by author 04-30-2006 10:36 PM
I am a seventh and eighth grade English teacher, and I really enjoyed reading both of the articles you posted. I agree with all that has already been stated about rubrics; they help to let students know what is expected of them and help teachers to grade the assignments less subjectively. As for the Grade-o-matic, I, like Perri, find it both exciting and scary. It is exciting to think that we could do more writing and get immediate feedback- as Kenny stated is so important but so unlikely and difficult for a teacher to do. Like Kathy mentioned, the computer-graded essays may be scored more on form rather than content, but if the program is used as a supplement (not the main/only essay assessment) it would be okay. It also may motivate students to write more since the computer has really become their main way of communicating with others. An online writing program could be a welcome relief to the pencil and paper prompt. I agree that we really get to know our students through their writing (both personally and academically), and I am sure I will still spend weekends on end grading it even with a program like this...It could be just another great way to get our students to write and to provide them with instant feedback regarding certain aspects of their writing. I'd like to check it out.

Edited by author 04-30-2006 10:52 PM
The editing technology and organizational rubrics portrayed in the articles are valuable. A dimension to add is student-to-student interaction via debate and discussion of the writing, editing, and scoring. Otherwise, these tools may further isolate students in an already increasingly computer-oriented school day. Student presentation and discussion of the successful elements of their works, student debate over the editing program’s criteria and results, and student’s participation in the building of rubrics are all vital to foster collegial exchange, critical thinking, and the humanism referred to below.

Edited by author 05-01-2006 06:25 AM
I think many important points are being made by all of you. I see the students point of view in wanting to know how they did right away and in this world of immediate gratification a matter of only a few days is a long time. I also do believe in the student input to develop the rubrics since their perspective is vitally important and can provide another dimension to the process. I have worked with scoring rubrics primarly on state testing within the mathematics format. There are still many gray areas in scoring rubrics that the state give us to score these tests. There have been a few instances where we were required to grade more harshly on a 7 and 8 grade level than a Math A or B level. Even though they talk about holistic scoring they are not always consistant in what they accept for certain levels. I think that more input on the classroom and student levels would help better the development of the scoring rubric. In addition the parent and student access to grades on a continous basis is important. As a parent myself I like to know how my child is doing throughout the semester and not just twice a semester (progress report and report card). There are a few different types of data management programs out there that allow parents to view their students progress on an regular basis and I feel that this only provides for more parent involvement in the school setting.

Kathy just said it well. Many important points have already been made by previous posts.
Although reading, grading and scoring essays is a long and tedious process, when done well, it is one of the most personal and enlightening learning experiences students will have during their k-12 experiences. Even at this age of my life and at this point in my career, I can still remember the comments made by my 10th and 11th grade teachers on my writing. It helped shape me as a student and learner. I truly feel that process cannot be duplicated by technology.

As far as the grading article, rubrics are an extremely important element of the teaching/learning process and are utilized by the majority of teachers in order to help students understand thier grades. Whether done electronically or by hand, they are essential for student growth.

This is such an interesting topic. I do agree that this grading system sounds a little impersonal; however, I see the value of the immediate feedback for students. If used correctly, this software could help students think about their technical mistakes and how to correct them, and then a more final version could be graded by the teacher. It could help teachers who have to grade many papers- and many versions of the same paper.
I do not think computer grading can replace the personal comments of individually graded papers, and a teacher's words and comments are so important. Like Nick, I also remember comments made by my eighth grade English teacher, and those are the comments that helped shape my writing.
It does sound like a great tool to aid us, but it must be used along with our own grading system.

This is a great conversation. I think all of your concerns and comments are valid, and were surprised when I read in the article about the teacher who could not substantiate a student’s grade. That’s a shame and I believe a separate conversation for GLEF. Effectively using technology to increase student achievement and more importantly comprehension of concepts taught is something I am passionate about. Technology should never take the place of a teacher. It should be used as a tool to enhance the instruction. However as the article states research shows the more students write the better they get. There are only a certain number of hours in a day. If this software does what is says, ( many times they don’t) it could be used as a first level of editing and free up the teacher to do a quality write up for the last draft. The software could be used like a peer review before the teacher grades it. Getting useful feedback is paramount to improve in any endeavor. I checked out the software and ordered a demo copy. This is the best way to check out any technology. Review it by using it. It states that the teacher puts in the criteria (hence the name Criterion) for each assignment and the computer grades it accordingly. If that is the case, the teacher can enter in the scoring rubric that is currently be utilized in the class. As always, I want to see it in action to see if it would useful in a classroom environment.

I am a middle school math teacher and a member of TEAM (from Westbury) The math curriculum is becoming much more literacy based. Students must first interprete the questions before computations begin. Also they must be able to explain how they got their answers in writing. These are big issues in my room as I have a large population with limited English skills, who cannot read and write in their native tongue either. We spend a good deal of time working on verbal skills in math, time we do not have, because of the test, test, test push. I think a computer that can give instant feedback can be a valuable tool when used correctly.

Thank you for the opportunity to respond to these two articles. Nothing will replace personal interaction for learning between the teacher and the middle school student. Over my 23 years of teaching, I know for certain that the middle school age student needs praise, personal connection, and multiple explanations to learn. Their minds are open and moving and filled minute to minute. They are eager to please. The concentration to improving student writing should be placed more on how the student learns. She does learn from modeling. She does learn by relating to the subject matter. She does learn by feeling a sense of pride and belonging. She does learn by timely feedback. No computer program will give her all of this. It is one tool, I understand, not the magic bullet. Each child is different and will learn differently. Some will and will not take the time to read the analysis of their work. Some will and will not understand the analysis of their work. The "old" way... good modeling, authentic assignments, peer feedback, timely teacher responses, clear objectives and understanding of assessment- all of this is hard work and personal for both the teacher and the student. Time consuming, yes. I find great joy in reading their work, knowing their styles, knowing their strengths and weaknesses, connecting with them personally through out the day and the year. The computer has its place; although I am not convinced it is in assessing a middle school student's writing. Clear objectives and rubrics for scoring student work...a must.

I tend to use rubrics in my ELA classroom. What I love about them is that they have solidified the grading process for my school. Being a special education teacher I had a difficult time grading my students papers because I felt like I was reading them in isolation and I had nothing to compare their work to. However, now that my entire ELA department using the same rubric (and expectations), our grading is more alligned across the board and really focuses the students to what their needs are.

So many wonderful ideas are coming out in this discussion. Joan brought up a very good point about the math test becoming much more literacy based. I think that another way to possibly use this type of software would be to set it up to also allow students to do a self checking analysis of the answers that they put on the extended response questions on a math exam. This would give them feedback as to the type of answers that would gain full credit and those that would not contain sufficient information. This could be used as a learning tool rather than just a grading machine.
I think what Meg and Judy have to say about rubrics is also very interesting. I like that Meg's school uses a consistent rubric through out the department and that students no matter whose class they are in are compared on the same plain, rather than by one teacher whose expectations may be more lenient or difficult than another. The students know what to expect and there are no surprises even from one grade level to the next. The tasks can become more difficult but the scoring rubric would then be adjusted to that level.

What a wonderful conversation. It brings me back to all the discussions we had when I was a member of Team all those years ago. Are you still flying on that ship?? As one who used to have to grade papers, the idea of a program doing it for me is interesting. On one hand, there would be a tremendous amount of time saved. However, I worry about those who would rely only on the program without their own input. Can you imagine the parent conference? "Well, Mrs. Jones, Johnny is really improving in his writing. While I've never really read anything he's written, the computer says that he is spelling better and sticking to the topic."

I must confess. I didn't write that last response. I had a program read the conversation and then respond based on personality parameters that I had set.

Rick you can always add a new twist to any conversation. Thank you for comedic post and using humor to highlight one possible scenario of the problems with a computer grading system.

This conversation has been fantastic. I've been in and out of here several times a day watching the conversation evolve and learning so much from the comments being submitted. Thank you to everyone for participating. Your insights have given me new ways to look at both rubrics and automated grading programs. And, Rick's humor lightened the conversation nicely.

As a math teacher, I agree that reading is so important. Students need to understand what the question is asking and the vocabulary may be tough. The students writing skills goes hand in hand with reading. Students need to understand how they are solving the problem to fully "get it". Giving students time to write, how they got the answer is a great tool for the students and an automated grading program would be great for immediate feedback.

Edited by author 05-07-2006 11:40 PM
Hi my name is Jaime and I am a special education teacher at the high school level. I just wanted to share the assessment that has worked best for me with students with special needs. As a special education teacher each of my students have an IEP (Individualized Education Plan) that is established for the year. The IEP includes goals and objectives that are set for the students to work towards and eventually achieve. After working with IEP's and the students I have come to the conclusion that the students NEED to be involved in the process. They need to take ownership of their educational career and how they are going to achieve their goals. What I have recently started to do was sit down with each of my students (separately) and go through their IEP. After discussing the IEP accommodations, modifications and the different goals, I have my students create their own goal sheet with a rubric that they are responsible for keeping. By having the student maintain their goal sheet and rubric, they are learning to take interest in their futures and in their education as a whole. If the students realize where they are starting in the beginning of the year and where they want to be come June, the students will truly appreciate the hardwork and dedication that got them there. The rubric can too be used with projects, class assignments, homework assignments, etc. As long as the rubrics are clear and easily understood the students will be able to assess their progress and create new goals for themselves. The process should also include a student/teacher conference where the students progress can be discussed and questions can be asked. It creates an open line of communication while making sure that we are all on the same page. I believe that there is something to be said about students taking responsibility for their own education. We must have faith in the students. It will build their confidence and enable them to become lifelong learners. I truly believe that this is critical to a successful learning career.