I have been pondering this idea of cuss words lately. Sometimes I find myself in the culture of Motorcycle Clubs and I meet people who are both Christian and who cuss. As I wrestled with this idea, I started to wonder if it is important to God that I use a "cuss" word or more so how I use my words. Surely using all proper words that tear someone down is more important to Him than that I use a colorful word to express a state of exasperation or outrage? I tend to be someone who likes to play things on the safe side, but I find myself lately wrestling with wanting to know the true nature of God's heart and what He might really be asking me to do in this life. I want to make the things that are important to Him important to me without getting caught up with what other "Christians" think should be important to me.

wow! i completely agree 100%!!! me and my girlfriend recently got in fight over this exact thing-she tried to tell me how i shouldnt ever do it and how what comes out of the mouth is a direct reflection of heart and how the Bible says not to do it, etc... but i disagree--its not a matter of WHAT word is said but rather HOW theyre said.. to me theres no difference between 'shit' and 'shoot' or 'damn','darn,' and 'dang' except they different level of emotion between them...

i'm definitely going to show her this article and hope she'll at least understand my point of view even if she doesnt agree

I agree with you. Taking God's name in vain is done when a uncover-jerk shows a little 'fish" card to have someone trust their integrity as a 'christian' and then steals the suckered souls' money. Amen to you.

spiider,

I agree with you completely.

All my life I've heard don't use God's name in vain, but sometimes it just pops out on it's own accord. It happens mostly when I'm in severe pain. It's not meant as disrespect.

The way I see it is, what's worse, murdering an innocent in cold blood or using God's name in vain? A murderer could NEVER say God's name in vain, yet he's a murderer. What then?

A good, basically decent person who never killed a soul, used God's name in vain sometimes, would goto Hell?

Do people see the point I'm making here? It's often made too clear cut.

That's all I can think of tonight, but I'll be watching this forum to add more and/or clarify my words if needed.

Thanks for listening and have a Merry Christmas and God Bless,

BlazeEagle

There are different kinds of "cussing." I'd put references to reproductive and excretory functions in one category, and those where we specifically invoke any of God's names in another. To speak God's name is to request his attention, and, when doing that, it's best to be polite.

I hope I'm not restating what I wrote earlier in any way, but a few new thoughts occurred to me -

While cussing can be used wrongly and/or abused or over used, sometimes it's the only way to state emotions and feelings.

Some act like cussing is the same as murder or rape, but it's not. Yes, obviously sometimes words CAN hurt, but not if used properly and when appropriate.

   I grew up in a family with a father who cursed in anger and a mother who denies the existence of such speech. As a young teenager, I gave myself permission to curse as an outlet for my anger. Never at anyone in an abusive tirade as my father.
   An acting professor of mine once said cursing is, 'like seasoning.' Not wrong or right, but keeps our speech from being bland & boring. It conveys feeling and passion of life and thought.
   I have sometimes wondered if any of Jesus disciples, out in a boat all day casting their nets with no success, ever cursed in frustration. On the flip side, I wonder if they cursed in amazement after a non-productive day of fishing suddenly changes into a boat overflowing with fish.
   I feel God would rather us let out our anger in a safe and managed way, rather than hold it in and damage our spirit.
   Peace out!

Wow, how refreshing to hear the bulk of these views. :-)

Great article Pam. Thanks. God has been removing bitterness and hate from my heart, but not passion. For some people my saying "Dude, you need to get your crap together." isn't strong enough;You know.I need another word. We have been duped by the 'Jesus wants you to be nice' crowd. Nice does not tell the truth. Nice does not make waves. Nice does not get dirty. Nice does not speak up. Nice does whatever is necessary to LOOK dignified and respectable but often fails to do the right thing.
The nice people's opinions (thankfully) are not the ones that really matter.

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To Erin and all -

I don't believe God "sits on a throne of God". I believe that puts God in a harsher stance then is needed and necessary.

Yes, God is likely looking down at us, but in a warm, caring why. God is like a warm hearted parent, not an iron fisted judge. Yes, even warm hearted parent's sometimes punish their children but not in an iron fisted, harsh way.

it's true. God does have the power to change our language. I am so grateful that the beautiful presence of Jesus in my life has been transforming my speech from being abusive to being kind; from judgemental to gracious, from hateful words to loving words. This is the power of God in my tongue, not sanitizing my vocabulary as proof of his life in me, but instead he transforms my heart and mind, the way I think and perceive others as well as how I perceive myself. And especially the way that I think and relate to the reality of who God is and what he is like.

This is the power of God's love in my life and language; let's not confuse piety for sanctification.

Jesus sancitifies me with his grace and love. I do not sanctify myself, no matter what naughty words I might censor from my vocab.

Grace, grace, grace...

hey jeff,

just wondering if you had time in your busy schedule of being judgemental of a bunch of people you've never met to convert a misguided soul?

You really know how to shine the light on a bunch of false converts. The God I know not only saves you "from" your sins but "takes" you out of them as well, it's a process called "sanctification". A god who would leave you in your sins and not "change" you is not a very big god. As a born again believer we are ambassadors of Christ, representing Him to the world, I don't believe He would be involved in such. The Bible clearly tells us not to profane (pollute) the name of the Almighty God, by mixing in the worlds sewer with it. Only through the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit are we able to "bridle the tongue" Read James chapter 3 and pray for God to change you, He has the power to change your language; I believe there were some people at the tower of Babel that can testify!

Why are people in North America so uncomfortable with the concept of Hell?

Very few things infuriate Christians more than 'goddammit'. You can lie, steal, commit adultry, etc. and, while not condoned, there's always room for forgiveness. But when it comes to saying the unutterable, you'd might as well tatoo a 666 on your forehead cause your going straight to hell. It's as if the view of God is that He's seriously pissed now that you've said that. The self made righteous person feels compelled to defend God. Somehow, that view of God just doesn't line up with the God I know.
I'm not even sure how saying that in a moment of anger equates to 'taking the Lord's name in vain'. It's not like you're consciously asking God to damn someone or some object to hell. Radical Muslims and Christian cults may, but when I hit my finger with a hammer, it's the furthest thing from my mind. It's either an expression cemented into my mind or,as some have said, demons manifesting.
Christian culture injects certain values were all supposed to share, like vote Republican (unless it's Jimmie Carter or Pat Robertson) disdain homosexuality, oppose abortion, and, most important, don't say those words. We ignore the overwhelming divorce and obesity in our churches. Our private lives are completely different from the one we project on Sunday. Yet, were adamant to promote our religiosity with these values we've inherited.
Everybody out of the pool. Somebody fucked it up. We need clean water and a new perspective. Wash away all the commandments we've added. It was only supposed to be 'Love God' and 'Love your neighbor' but we've been pinching loafs in the pool. And we wonder why the unbelievers don't want to join us.

I don't quite understand the "love your enemy" part. For example, How could one love someone that murders a good, caring person? This part always bugs me every time I hear it. What about killing to protect your family and very close friends?

Next, what about TV characters/actors that cuss? Will actors be “damned” for cussing in a performance? Yes, performances filled with nothing but shit and fowl mouthed actors are bad but a few cuss words aren’t too bad.

Saying “G.D.”, “d you” and “goto hell” are very bad. Those are VERY bad things to say . BUT, sometimes they just pop out. I try with everything in me, to avoid saying them. I 98% avoid it.

Good points Anna! God bless you, your child and your family.

Christian thoughts -

I've cussed/swore before but, I usually apologize to God afterwards. I often feel a presence around me. I feel that it's a guardian angel. I'm 26 and have duchenne muscular dystrophy and am stuck in bed. Whether Christian or not, cussing gratuitously is bad because it disrespects others, yourself and God.

I named my condition because it will help explain my thoughts better. I feel that God as well as my family and close friends, helps me deal with this situation better then I could alone. I thank God a lot for my family and close friends and my doggy.

Others are far worse off then me, my family and my close friends, but when my pain get's too bad, I'll cuss at my condition because it hurts and makes it nearly impossible to hug my Mom, Sister and my doggy. THAT'S what makes me cuss my condition the most. Sometimes cussing can relieve pain, hurt, ETC.

It may be a blessing in disguise but I'm tired of all the work my condition requires of my famiy and friends. I nag alot but try to cut down on it.

Chruch CAN be a good thing, but I feel that the Bible "thumpers" out there drive good folks away from God. God is about caring, friendship, LOVE and COMPASSION. God is not about rules and regulations. One cannot force a person to believe.

Some make cussing sound like it's akin to murder and cross burning.

First let's be absolutely clear about the mandate from God via the Bible. Do not use the Lord's name in vain. No other instruction concerning the use of specific verbage is given. As I am certain that this was not oversight by the Creator of the Universe, I must conclude that all other sentance construction is limited only by the breadth of my lexicon.

Language is power. The power to share, empathize, express, control, manipulate, complement, question, answer, insult, flatter...Limitless power. To limit your use of language is to limit your power to do whatever it is that you choose to do in life.

As men we need to be comfortable in our own skin. Speaking from our own hearts. Owning whatever language we choose to use. Worrying less about the choice of words and more about the content of the message. Leaders of men do not censor their speech as to not offend. Rudolf Giulianni, Vince Lombardi, Douglas MacArthur, Ronald Reagan. Choose whatever words you will, but say what you mean, and mean what you say.

Edited by author 03-30-2006 03:46 AM
Pam, great article.
As we talked about at the writers conference, I deal with this issue very briefly in a chapter of the book I'm working on. The larger context is a chapter on Christians' habit of reading poorly, and this poor reading's effects on our political beliefs. In fact, the swearing portion might be a tangent I should cut, but it's an issue that bugs the shit out of me, so I couldn't help but rant a bit about it. My biggest beef with swear words is that they are too often used as fillers. Some have talked here about the anger behind the words being the problem. Too often the words are so muddied by overuse that they can't even properly convey anger. My father made it through six years in the military and only swore once, but when he did, everyone took him very seriously, because they knew how exceptional that was. That's a good object lesson for why we should try not to swear: not so we will avoid offending people, but so that the words can be the communicative tools we want them to be. Frankly, people like snooty Christians can cut us all (especially us cussing Christians) far more deeply with a a sarcastic tone or a sideways look.

Here's that exceprt from the book I'm workiing on. Pardon me for quoting myself (so tacky, I know) and tell me what you think:

...Second, as Nietzsche said, the Bible is “pricked and pulled”. Passages are taken out of context to support positions which, seen as a part of a whole, are baseless. For example, many Christians believe that Jesus’ admonition against swearing refers to so called “curse-words”, the seven words George Carlin informed us cannot be referred to on television. There are verses which warn people against filthy speech and (more important, from your English teacher’s perspective) careless words, so an argument can be made that they should be avoided. However, the words themselves are not filthy, nor need they be used carelessly. They are the product of economics, of keeping up with the Joneses. When upper class people found all talk of bodily functions distasteful and low-class, replacing practical terms like toilet with ridiculous innuendos like “water-closet”, lower class people were told that the words which were common and accurate, like “shit”, were dirty and verboten. Thus the commodity became manure, and the word actually took on more power than it previously possessed. Now a word referring to something common and innocuous (previously possessing an unpleasant smell and texture, perhaps, but not a moral weight) could offend dainty Victorian sensibilities. Jesus probably wouldn’t support needlessly offending dainty Victorians, but he didn’t say anything about it one way or the other. In the NIV translation the words “dirty” (used twice) and “filthy” (used ten times) never refer to language. The term “profane” (33 times) and “profaned” (34 times) refer to actions or speech which are disrespectful to God. Thus referring to manure as “shit” is not profane. It’s accurate. When Jesus talks about swearing (in the fifth chapter of Matthew) he specifically refers to the kind of swearing to avoid, and the seven words you can’t say on television are not included. He is talking about taking oaths (in the name of God, country, the king, etc.) and says not to do it because we lack the authority to control these things. It is a command to speak only for ourselves so that the consequences of our failings fall upon us alone. He clarifies later (in the 23rd chapter) that oaths are binding, that swearing creates a contractual obligation to turn over the thing by which we swore if we break our word. Thus, swearing by anything beyond our own word of honor is irresponsible. Ironically, many Christians in the United States lobby to keep words like “shit” out of the public square while accepting an institutionalized ritual of swearing on a Bible in courtrooms and the oath-taking of public officials. They use a physical book which is not their property (and thus cannot be returned if they perjure themselves) and may even be symbolically representing the meaning of the text, which they cannot forfeit because the Bible’s truth is not their property, either.

Edited by author 03-21-2006 09:38 PM
Well, you can't say shit or fuck on the tele or on the radio so I guess you can't as a Christian either, right?

haha, just kidding.

Who determines what's bad? I guess it all goes back to where your heart is. Just like all sin is created equal, all curse words are created equal. There is no hierarchy of evil cuss words. Fuck is not necessarily the worst thing you can say to someone. I'm a cussing Christian I guess and it really ticks me off when someone calls me out on cussing, but nothing else that I say.

Cuss words convey intense emotion and sometimes they are necessary when portraying a situation--especially in art. But I do believe that allowing oneself to cuss gratuitously isn't just wrong on a Christian level, but on a secular level as well. It shows lack of self-control and an abundance of impulse and can have the tendency to reflect poorly on one’s character.

I actually used to cuss to God in prayer (which probably makes me the worst cussing Christian in here): “WHAT THE F***, GOD? WHAT THE F*** DO I DO?!” but then it dawned on me that, duh, God knows how strongly I feel without me cussing and without me even saying anything at all.

Like most of you have said, it’s all about context and intent. Everyone f*cks up. We’re human. We’re also called to be set apart from the rest of the world so cussing like a sailor is probably not in a believer’s best interest. I’m still working on my mouth.

I’m also an English major so I personally should be reconsidering my diction :) Also, I’m sorry if the italicized words with no asterisks in the beginning are offensive. My English teachers don’t allow “vulgarity” in our papers, but when talking about a word, we’re allowed to italicize it regardless of the word because it’s just that: a word.

As a believer, I guess I would have to ask myself if "cussing words" were the kinds of words I would use in the presence of Jesus.
Are those words that I would use in the presence of God's Throne, where all around Him, creatures he created are saying, "Holy, Holy, Holy" and all those who have gone before us are in his presence. If I am controled by the Holy Spirit, are those the words He is directing me to use?

Yes, cussing is a part of life and expression, but it's one of those things that I don't think is God's best for my life. I don't judge those who are not believers who cuss, but as a person comes to know Jesus, there is a sense of wanting to "clean up". It's not overnight, but it should come. Our speech is to be edifying and encouraging and to be honoring to Jesus.

I am of the opinion that a habit of cussing has no place in a believer's life.

I am a Vineyard Pastor's wife in the bible belt and I help my husband pastor our church. I have been know to let a few cuss words fly at home. (I am Italian and my family did not come to know Jesus until I was in middle school; by the way, I drink wine on occasion too!)

Anyway, as Christians, I feel there are more intelligent and wholesome ways for us to express ourselves than to cuss.

thanks for letting me share!

wow, I'm back from my writers retreat to find quite the rousing discussion going on here.

as I read through the thread I'm asking myself,Why is this such a hot topic?

I think it's not simply the issue of cussing that this debate is about but rather the perspective of what it looks like to live under the grace of Jesus. For some of us cussing, no matter the context, is offensive for us to engage in. It is a sin. For others, cussing is simply a form of communication that is not even on the sin radar.

This has been an interesting discussion. Thanks to all who have taken time to contribute.

(if you're late to the dialogue feel free to jump on in...)

Anna, i wanted to respond to your questions "what if Jesus cares?" But I really want to ask you, "does He?" Wouldn't the story of the prodigal son lose it's power if upon the return of the son, the father gave him a towel, instead of a hug? Now, I realize that you're not speaking of SALVATION, but SANCTIFICATION, or at least, I assume you are. But ultimately, the question of who dictates the "changes" that are made after salvation has still been left UNANSWERED. A common pat answer would be "the Word dictates the changes, of course", but Jesus rebuked the religious leaders that bogged their "converts" with a stack of rules and regulations that had nothing to do with connection with Jehovah. So, we rely on the Holy Spirit to govern our choices of words and trust that those around us follow that same leading. There's a danger of diluting true faith by policing behavior.

What does constant policing convey to those being policed? To me, as someone who has been a victim of constant policing in the church, and a member of a COMMUNITY of victims of policing, it conveys an acceptance *with strings attached*, a conditional love, and at the very least, a bait and switch. So, were I of weaker blood, I would buckle under the weight of those demands and walk away, disappointed with God and his alleged followers. This is a MAJOR problem with the church today. We fail to address and acknowledge the brokenhearted. We feel the need to remind each other of the stumbling blocks, the shit on our shoes, the symptoms of a bigger issue of pain in our lives.

Cussing isn't necessarily profane in all cases. Profanity is defined as abuse and irreverant language. Many people have articulately described accounts in their personal lives where the expression of "taboo words" actually opened a door for less-tiptoeing and more intimacy.

I lead music at my church and one sunday after I had screamed my lungs out to God, a dear, dear friend told me this: "I'm not a good singer and usually I'm afraid to sing *at all* in the services, happy to quietly reflect on God. This morning, because your voice went out and went flat SEVERAL times, I realized that it wasn't THE QUALITY of my voice that GOD was looking for in worship, but MY HEART and PASSIONATE desire to connect with him. I completely sang loud for the first time."

That sort of thing makes me want to:

a) take singing lessons
b) give my friend singing lessons
c) stop singing when my voice goes out
d) go to the library and read up on HOW I CAN MESS MY VOICE UP MORE!

The answer for me, is D. I will try ANYTHING if it means that someone will feel free to connect with God. My personal belief is that when God looks at me at judgement day (see the sheep and the goats story), he's not going to say, "Well done, my good and faithful servant, you resisted using the "F" word for the better part of your life." He most likely will say, "Well done, my good and faithful servant, you did everything in your power to connect with Me and help others connect with Me, including some undignified, dirty things (not unlike my friend David)."

That's the heart of the matter for me. Hope that made sense.

Edited by author 03-20-2006 09:46 AM
Many years ago, when a musician named Steve Camp was still rather famous, I saw him perform at Wheaton College. Half way through the show, he made the statement that "millions of people are going to Hell and most Christians don't give a damn!" I was shocked and outraged. His next statement shocked me even more. "That really sad part is that more of you are upset that I said 'damn' than the fact that millions of people are going to Hell." I am now convicted of that very thought every time I hear someone say, "I don't give a damn."

Yes, we want the world to know that there is something different about us. But the gospel is, at best, diminished if those around us only see us as people who have their own sanitized language, special weekly events, and particular political agendas. The reason this discussion is about cussing is important is that in many cases these are the only qualities Christians are reflecting to our culture. THIS IS NOT THE GOSPEL!!!!!
Again, cussing is a sin like any other type of language, when it is used to degrade or harm someone else. Calling people names probably warrents a legitimate conviction from the Holy Spirit so it does not surprise me that you felt bad in for doing it. But lets be clear on why you felt bad. It was not because you said bitch. It is because Christ waas teaching you to be kind and forgiving, to love your enemies. The message that comes from situations like the one you described Erin, it that God wants to clean our hearts.

Let me tell you another story of cussing. One day I came upon a friend of mine who is homeless. He is half blind and a quite slow of wit. His income is from panhandling, so as you can imagine, he doesnt have much money. None the less, he is always happy and friendly. But on this day, he was crying walking down the street with dried blood all over his shirt, a big black eye, and a busted up lip. I ran to him to ask what had happened and what what was wrong. Well... some son of a b*tches had rolled him in the night and beat him up for fun. They took his only $10 and kicked his dog really hard. Now that is fu*cked up!!!! I dont know why the h*ll they did that to him! But I knew that God put me there to love him, let him know how sorry I was that that happened to him and to assure him (in the strongest language he understood) that God was very sorry that happened to him. So I said, "Gee, that's darn sad, I know God is upset with those buggers."

No for real, I used some colorful language. But all the while my prayer was that all the words of my mouth would convey God's love for this man. The desire of my heart and the intention of my speaking was to lead this man away from self-condemnation and hatred toward God and the world.

I know I could have ministered effectively to this man without using profanity. But I also know I ministered just as effectively with it. We are not judged for our words by God or by the world. Our words convey what is in our hearts and for that we are judged. If our hearts are cold and empty the world will see that clearly whether we cuss or not. And if our hearts are full and overflowing will we need to stop cussing to prove it? H*ll NO!!!!

I'm new here and this is my first visit to the page. The topic of the article that sparked this discussion has become of interest to me since I entered college.

I have been a Christian since childhood and when I came to college I recieved my first taste of independence. I also had my first encounters with people who were certifiable b*****s to me. I began to use the term in my everyday language. I soon found my walk with God diminishing.

I failed to realize that my roommate (and probably others) who was also a Christian was offended by my language, though she did not let it get in the way of our relationship. When it dawned on me that I was being offensive and was becoming someone who was not true to who I am I stopped using cusswords in my language.

My relationship with God was immediately improved as was my relationships with others. I have to agree with Anna that our lives should be reflections of who we would be if we were standing before the throne of God. I for one don't want to have poop on my shoes when I finally find myself in God's presence.

I don't think that cussing is wrong, I have good friends that cuss and sometimes I use cuss words to express emotions. I feel that as Christians though we should be different from "normal" society. That DOES NOT mean that we need to cut ourselves off from non-Christians; instead it means that we should interact with non-Christians and let them see that there is something different in us. Something that is making us have a relationship with them and acting in love towards them.

agentsoffuture
No offense taken. In fact, if it's the David from Vancouver that posted quoting South Park, then we're probably very much alike. We've probably met then at the Bridge but I don't know David yet.

Agent, you said, "I want the freedom to just have the poop on the shoes in the house and love Jesus and have no one care,"

What if Jesus cares?

sorry, it just sounded EXACTLY like a friend of mine posting.. no harm meant.. I loved what you said.. I was joking with him.. and you.

if i understand the conversation in this discussion group, it seems that no one is questioning the need for things to "change" and be transformed when encountering Christ.. what is the "stumbling block" is determining who dictates the changes. I have had principles dictated to me by well-meaning leaders who were following their own cultural preferences/aesthetics, not necessarily understanding Jesus' character and motivations, but calling it gospel. So, over the years, things that need cultural re-evaluation have tended to just bow to previous opinion-based arguments.

That seems to be the root issue.

The dog-doo analogy is interesting, because it presupposes that the person cleaning the shoes doesn't have poopsies on their shoesies.. This is about who has the right to dictate whose poopsy stinks the worst and carry out the cleaning. Jesus, in my opinion, spoke against the poop cleaners and told them to check their own shoes. That was, I believe, a reoccurring theme. And Christian culture as it has evolved, has created the same situation again.

Kinda like Israel demanding a king, even though it wasn't necessarily important in God's mind. Man tends to want a formula for relationship that is concrete, I-don't-do-this-so-I-can-get-this, and keep God as this arms-length judge of moral fortitude, it seems to be in human nature.

In the core of me, I want the freedom to just have the poop on the shoes in the house and love Jesus and have no one care, that's what I want.

But that's me.

I admit I'm new here, and I may not understand the paradigm, but help me out. Of course Jesus loves us as we are. We cannot pretend to be something else to Him. But that does not mean we should not change. There's the whole "put on"/"put off" thing, and being conformed to His image -- that requires change.

So my 3yo plays in the yard and gets dog-doo on her shoes. Do I love her less? No. Do I reject her? No. Do I let her in my house or ignore the stench? No. We clean up.

When the miners in Wales became Christians during the Welsh revival, their language changed, and their donkeys who had been trained on profanity had to be retrained. Point being, they changed, and their language reflected it. It did not hurt their witness, because lots of people came to Jesus during that time.

"fiddle sticks", eh? "flibbidy-floo" is one of my personal faves, actually. First popularized in the late-80's by a grumpy-ole man played by (highly unchristianish) Dana "son of beelzebub" Carvey

david, get off this discussion thread. you're polluting the waters, not to mention trivializing my point. :)

I agree with you totally agentsoffuture.
I've come to despise the culture of Christianity that dictates how we must present ourselves. The issue of what words we use, the audacity to view ourselves in a different class because we say 'shoot' and 'darn'. We present an ideal to unbelievers that we ourselves don't adhere to. Everyone swears in the eyes of God. I don't care if you say 'fiddle sticks'. Your emotion and heart are saying the exact same things that the unbeliever utters.
The Christian culture has become unrelatable. We have become self righteous and arrogant in the name of 'purity'. We have projected our supposed holiness on the unbelievers and subjected them to the letter of the law.
The Grace of God demands authenticity. We must allow others to see our humanity if Grace is to survive.
I'm not ashamed of Jesus. He came to our level, became one of us. He came to our house for dinner. He sought out the lowly of heart, defended the accused, befriended the unlovable, and is a hero to the unreligious groaning under the weight of piety.
To swear or not to swear is not an issue. Honesty to allow others to see us for who we are is. If we can do that, then Jesus and the grace of God are glorified.
We need to tear down the culture of Christianity that has isolated us. Start by practicing. It will get easier as you go. Every morning, look in the mirror and say sh*t. Easy transition from shoot. Once your comfortable, move on to fu*k. Soon, you'll love the way it erupts when it rolls off your lip. I am being serious. If you are uncomfortable saying a word that has become utterly meaningless in our culture, then you are insulated from our world and you might as well wear a burka. Once you master your tongue, you'll be able to let down all those self righteous walls that have enslaved you. You'll become popular and all your old friends that slowly backed away will return. Your neighbors will come over for dinner and you can stop watching those 'Little House on a Prarie' reruns.

This is interesting. I completely stopped swearing when I became a believer many years ago, but also very much disassociated myself from my old friends and family. Now, as a more mature Christian and person, I have found that swearing can help me communicate emotion and intensity quite effectively. And it is part of my "re-engagement" with society. I don't swear in private; and don't ever "curse" another person. But I definitely use strong language in order to communicate clearly with other adults. It works. And it doesn't hurt me or my colleagues.

cool beans.

different people are punk rockers, others are librarians. I love that there are some many different people within the church. It's a BLESSING (a cussword at our church) to see this sort of thing being talked about with only the occasional HOLY (another cussword at my church) outburst.

I'm pretty shocked that the "causing to stumble" argument has made it on here, though.. I thought we were "post-modern" (he he)..

Seriously, though. The usage of that scripture IN THAT WAY *is* a STUMBLING BLOCK. To convey to people that incorrect language could possibly DISQUALIFY you or someone else, has the tendency to send innocents down a point-less path to PERSONAL HOLINESS. To that I say BULLSHIT! And I mean it! That thought process has equivalent value to a pile of excrement from a male cow. Is there any one of us that thinks that the thoughts we think are hidden from God? Jesus did a good job at demolishing this WHOLE mindset, right? check this out: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...2023%20;&version=65; Every TIME I read this, i remember why I love Jesus. The problem with the pharisees is that they took what they knew and used it make a heirarchical system of behavior and this INFURIATED him.

My friend Ken found a good translation for the word sin in the Bible: "A sidestep taken as a result of pain". Medication is what I call it. Jesus didn't medicate his pain, he saw the OTHER SIDE of it and walked through it. Whenever people get tripped up on this sort of thing, I think about the MILLIONS of CHRISTIANS who MEDICATE with their pursuit of HOLINESS. I think it's high time to put the spotlight on the things that REALLY cause the stumbling. Call medication for what is, be kind to each other.

thanks for reading this.

aw, poopsie.

This is why I personally don't cuss: There have been moments in my prayer times when I have felt like I'm directly in front of the Throne of God, sapphire pavement, brilliant splendor, the emotions of God resonating through my soul like thunder. I cannot imagine using anything other than the purest language I know in that place, even in my raw honesty about my humanity. That's how I want to live my life -- in His presence whether I feel it or not. And cussing just doesn't seem compatible with His presence.

hey chris

i agree with you that if cussing is going to hurt someone else's conscience then I need to be sensitive and respectful about that. Just like with alcohol - it's not a sin to have a beer but if you're enjoying your brew and it's problem for someone else than you don't have a beer with that person. This is common sense and also being courteous. But, for the drinker, or person who uses swear words to express emotion, is told by the offended party, "You can never ever drink (or cuss) because it offends me), well, that's extreme, isn'tit? And that is what I hear your argument endorsing.

Also, you missed the point of my article. I'm NOT saying go tell people to F*ck Off (unless it's in love, of course :-) ); any words of any kind that cause destruction or belittling are in conflict with the message of Christ's love.

My point is that unsanitized language does not always mean an unsanitized heart. In India my husband mingled with devoted Christians who said damn for everything,"My wife's cooking is damn good". There is a world of difference in that usage then say, "Damn you to hell".

Religion puts all these rules on how to be, speak, act, dress, there's an amazing litany of censorship on religious Christians. I cannot live up to it. Even if I don't say sh*t on the outside, I've often said it on the inside.

I'm really more interested these days in breaking out of my subculture of American Christianity than trying to be emergent or relevant. And that is a whole 'nother article....

thanks all for contributing to this provocative discussion. special props out to Owen for bringing us an interesting history lesson on language.

Feel free to comment some more. I'll be away for the weekend for a writers retreat on the beautiful Oregon coast.

Nice try Pam. I understand where you're coming from, but you have to remember, that not only does our heart give meaning to words, but the listener's heart gives meaning to it as well. If what you are saying causes your brother to stumble, then it is wrong to say it. Romans 14:20.

I agree, that the words themselves don't matter. But the spirit behind them does. You are remiss in comparing Jesus calling someone a viper to me telling you to f**k off. A viper isn't an unwholesome thing. It's a snake. F**king, however is considered to be a very crude way of describing sexual intercouse. Jesus wasn't talking about something done in private, nor was He being crude.

Cussing in our society is widely believed to be something Christians don't do. Do we judge our brother whose faith is weak because he cusses? Hell no! (Ha ha, sorry couldn't resist!) But, we as Christians should not go so far in trying to be relevant that we do things that most people view as a sin. Let us rather be an example of kindness and even intelligence by using speech that is an example of holiness.

Have a great f**cking day, by the way. (Sorry again ;)

I sent a link to this article to my church's e-mail group. Our assistant pastor had this to say:

Mr. A, Mr. B and I had an interesting conversation about this very topic not very long ago. I think that we recognized that the larger portion of those terms considered vulgar or taboo in our Christian culture represent biological functions considered inappropriate in public discourse by the Puritan mindset by way of Victorian thought.
 
In seminary, one of my professors began a course in ecclesiastical latin by delivering a 15 minute etymology of the word "sh-t", which is derived from an indo-european root meaning "to shed or leave behind". Apparently, an earlier culture considered that biological function to be an act akin to the shedding of skin or the removal of a part of the anatomy. The word "damn" is from the Latin "damnare" which means "to inflict loss or to condemn". So forth and so on.
 
What is or is not a curse word changes in a culture. In the 1800s, the word "belly" was considered obscene and was removed from English and American bibles. The word "leg" was seen as vulgar during the Victorian era and so people often referred to "the limb of the table". As some may have noticed, most of our modern curse words have Anglo-Saxon roots and most acceptable alternatives have French or Latin roots. For example, "sh-t" is a curse word, whereas "defecate is not". This is so because the Saxons were conquered by the Normans (French) in 1066 and the Romans a thousand years before. In each case, the native language was suppressed and Anglo-Saxon words, particularly those associated with bodily functions, acquired a taboo that they still possess today. It is a subtle irony that many of us return the taboo by using the phrase "Pardon my French", which reflects a general cultural sterotype, popular in the late 19th and 20th centuries, associating France with vulgarity, sexual liberalism/obsession and venereal disease.
 
I have heard it said that there are no curse words in Japan. I'm not sure of that is true or not. It would make sense. I don't know that, prior to WWII, the Japanese ever endured a protracted, armed occupation. I think that profanity in Japan, an historically honor-based culture, is carried largely in tone, not in the actual word, although some curse words do exist.
 
At any rate, the words do have a certain power. It is a power rooted by history in various expressions of our culture to various degrees. I think at the end of it we decided that it was best just to know one's audience. I don't think of cussing as inherently sinful, of course. I think it is much more a part of the cultural dialogue of my generation than those immediately previous and so it doesn't faze me all that much.
 
I agree with the articles' discussion of cursing as a form of essentially non-verbal communication that carries a raw emotional current. In a world in which human belonging seems so delicate, that sort of transparency can seem and perhaps sometimes be fairly threatening to a general sense of well-being, I suppose. I don't think that "cuss words" will exist in a perfect world. I think we will be a little less fearful of one another come the day. I don't know if becoming a Christian changed my tendency to use curse words, but it definitely changed my tendency to use various insults and to experience so much despair in light of various frustrations. So, most likely, it just cut down (partially) my raw emotional output and subsequent NEED to curse...dunno...

My reply was:

I'm not so sure cussing is more part of the cultural
dialogue now than in previous generations. My parents
and their friends cussed as much as I hear anybody
today. It just was less acceptible in public than it
now is. It was considered rude, where now it is
considered nothing. When I was a kid, I commonly heard
my dad's family cussing, but nobody did it in my mom's
family because they had Christians on that side.

I've read that as swear words gain common usage they
lose their power and new forbiden words have to take
their place. And interestingly, Mr. B has noted that
in Germany our queen mother of all dirty words is less
offensive than the one we use for the excretory
function.

The King James Bible (in a word-for-word translation)
uses a euphemism for males, those "that pisseth
against the wall," that is so offensive today that new
translations dump the euphemism altogether, not even
substituting with "urinate;" they just say "males."

So I guess the point of this so-far pointless screed
is that if you choose to use such language, I think it
best if you hold it in check around unbelievers for
the most part. I suppose there are exceptions where a
person would be more likely to be won over by hearing
a Christian cuss, but those things should be
considered on a case-by-case basis. I think you'd be
safest to assume that a person would be more impressed
by not hearing you cuss then rely on the Holy Spirit
to lead you otherwise -- which sounds kind of wierd,
but the Lord does work in mysterious ways.

I know that unbelievers have noticed that I don't
cuss, but I also make no big deal of it if they do.
Typically, they'll apologize, and I tell them to
forget it; I've heard worse -- and said worse myself.
As people get to know me they begin to go ahead and
say whatever they want without apology. I like this
distinction that I don't judge them for their choice
of words, but there is a demarcation still since I
don't use the language myself. I see it as a subtle
hint at our differences. I won't judge them for any
sin they accept either, but I'll do my best not to
participate in it.

Edited by author 03-16-2006 02:54 AM
I have no doubt that the kind of language we use affects the way we are perceived by people outside the faith. Connie, your testimony about working in a secular environment and having your faith visible through your actions and your words is great. You lived what you believe and I am sure that the people you worked with respected and admired that about you. You had a different kind of testimony than I would have had in that context. If I was working with a bunch of construction guys, my witness in their lives would be more like one of identifying. Probably I would be hanging out with their wives and girlfriends, taking care of their kids and getting together for the Superbowl. In those contexts people start to let their guard down and they need to know that I am one of them. Language is a way of identifying with people. I am one of them. My dad was a framer. And I have the same language as them. Because I am like them in so many ways, my testimony to how Christ has changed my life is meaningful in a different way. Swearing DOES NOT have any bearing on the work that Christ has done to set me free from the bondage of sin!!!! And the grace of God is apparent in my life not because I use good grammar but because I have a peace, a joy, and a hope that permeates everything I say and do.
There is a constant tension in being in the world but not of the world.
I am certainly not advocating for all believers to take up swearing. Of course some people will be much better examples of the love of God if they do not swear. But when Paul said he was all things to all people he was advocating for cultural relevancy. We never abandon biblical standards to "fit in" but we must carefully examine our beliefs to be sure that we know the difference between cultural taboos and biblical standards. Yes it is true that our culture censors language and that is good. But that does not mean that God uses the same censoring standards.

Kim said,

   <Q>Maybe for some who have grown up in a white middle class educated family the use of swear words does not resonate with your heart. For me, jokes with swear words are funnier, political debates are more passionate with cussing, and my pain is reflected more accurately when punctuated with the F,S,D, or H word.</Q>


I am on the same page as Kim. (well said by the way)

Of course language is monitored according to the social and cultural setting. I don't ever cuss in front of my clients or the clerk at the grocery store, but I also don't have deep conversations with them or show them my angst with life.

Words are vehicles to express who we are. Besides culture, is cussing an indicator of class or education? Or moral impurity?

Hi Andy. When I said culture makes a difference; I was referring to people of different countries, missionary thinking. Rather makes my point about knowing the language of the people we’re talking to, doesn’t it? Regardless, we are a spirit with a soul wrapped in a body. I believe the spirit in us, whether saved or unsaved, yearns for a defined ‘right or wrong’. We have a divine connection to our Creator whether we are aware or not. Before I was in full time ministry I worked in commercial construction, a very secular world, I assure you. I was called the Crazy Jesus Lady. Only my friends called me that to my face but that’s how the guys in the field referred to me. I kept a Bible on the guest side my desk at all times. I wasn’t born with a Bible in my hand and I certainly have never hit anyone over the head with it, but it is visible in my life. These guys would from time to time stop by my office for no apparent reason. I’d ask about the family, kids, birthday parties, etc. Some would pick that Bible up, thumbing through it like the Yellow Pages, and put it back down. Others would unconsciously move it around. Often, as they stood in the doorway to leave, they would ask me to pray for them. I’d ask if they wanted prayer for something in particular or just in general. Most would just mutter something as they bolted away. My point is that when we walk out our faith people respond. Some of these same guys would tone down their language when I was around, others blatantly flaunted it. Some apologized, some not. I didn't ask them to, nor did I speak like them. That Bible sitting on my desk for years touched as many people as touched it. It became filthy from all the dirty hands moving it around and I’ve never cleaned it. I love the handprints all over it and what they represent. Those guys might not darken the door of a church but they knew they needed a spiritual connection. I didn’t reject them and they accepted me. I was able to just ‘BE’, Crazy Jesus Lady and all. We may be in this diverse world but we are no longer of it.

If cussing is so culturally acceptable why do our schools have policies against students using profanity, secular corporations and businesses have policies against using it in the work place and unbelieving friends apologize when they use it around my kids without me ever having said a word to them about not cussing in front of me or my kids??? I just find it interesting to ponder not justify one way or the other. Why does our culture rate movies and music as more or less acceptable for different age groups based partially on the cussing used it it???

Cultural makes a difference. Generational differences appear to make the gap wider. For instance, two of my friends were preparing for a mission to Africa. Running last minute errands together, Friend A said she needed to pick up some thongs. Friend B was flabbergasted with disbelief that Friend A ever wore thongs and said so! ‘A’ wanted to know what the big deal was; she had worn thongs for a long time. ‘B’ challenged her again, insisting she did not! At this point, they were both a bit confused but continued on to the Mall. Friend A said she also planned to buy a CD while there. ‘B’ asked what CD she was getting. ‘A’ retorted that was personal and none of her business. ‘B’ reminded her they would be traveling together and it wasn’t something you could really hide. What they had was a failure to communicate! Friend A was in her early 50’s and Friend B was early 30’s. ‘A’ was referring to flip-flops when she said thongs; ‘B’ was thinking underwear! ‘A’ intended to buy a Certificate of Deposit (CD) and ‘B’ was thinking music CD. Once they realized what was going on, it was too funny! We must be aware of the language of those we minister to in order to communicate effectively. We are not to be judgmental….period. Do we have to cuss to prove that? I don’t think so.

I think cussing is a sin when it is used to degrade, tear down, or harm someone. Any other time it is a matter of having good or bad manners. Its not a sin to chew with your mouth open but some people are bothered by it so don't do it around them. There are certain places and times when you use your formal manners and you don't spit, fart or cuss. But for some of us, when we are at home, around people we trust, we allow ourselves to be more informal and relaxed. Swearing is an informal form of dialog for many people. Maybe for some who have grown up in a white middle class educated family the use of swear words does not resonate with your heart. For me, jokes with swear words are funnier, political debates are more passionate with cussing, and my pain is reflected more accurately when punctuated with the F,S,D, or H word. I dont feel I need to be more articulate or refined. And I don't believe Jesus is at all offended.

Edited by author 03-14-2006 07:26 PM
I think that we as Christians have more things to work on than just our speech habits. I personally don't cuss often. I'd say that I don't in general...but lying about it is stupid and not necessary. I remember in high school, being a young Christian and not caring how others spoke. I chose not to say those words (then), but I never judged anyone about it. I later got involved in another church that taught me that it was wrong to cuss. And that "people should never cuss around you, because you are a 'woman of God.' People should have more respect than that for you and your beliefs." Well....long story short and I'm sure that I don't have to say it, but I learned to start judging people for a time about this. I remember being so disgusted when a fellow staff member would cuss, that I turned to the leader and pointed it out (as if to get that person in trouble).

I don't think that it is completely necessary to cuss...but I will not condemn someone for doing that. It's completely ridiculous to do that to someone. Especially when trying to reach people for Christ. I've since changed churches and my current church has a different stance on it. One more alike with Pam's. Here is an article that my church put out that I think is well worth the read.

http://www.xenos.org/teachings/nt/james/gary/james3-1.htm

Thanks Connie for clarifying what you meant. I know we all cannot imagine Christ using taboo words. I wonder, though, what it meant in his culture to call religious leaders "whitewashed tombs full of dead men's bones"? I was unable to find a single commentary that could help me understand the cultural context of these words. Was it vulgar or profane to the hearer? I don't know. I do know that Jesus was sinless, which meant that no matter how his hearers took it His Father in heaven had no issue with it.

This is clearly not a black and white issue with a dogmatic perimeter. What is permisable for some will be off limits for others. Apparently, for Jesus it was ok to call Pharisees snakes and tombs. I could not say such things to any leader I know. It would definitely be a sin for me.

I recently had a conversation with a woman who is going through a marital crisis. I don't know her that well. She knows I am a Christian. In the conversation I used a strong word to conveyto her an emotion about how I felt. It was like a key that opened a door. She came out of hiding and began to share with me, in very strong language, the details of the crisis of her marriage. This brought us into a deeper level of intimacy in our relationship. Because I spoke her dialect she told me her story which before was cloaked behind pleasantries and polite words.


What do you think about this, folks? Is cussing a black and white issue?

I have quite a few cussing Christian friends at the church I currently attend. It was much different in the church where I was last a member. I see more acceptance of nonbelievers among the cussing group and, as a result, the believers and the non are more likely to build relationships. At the same time, I try not to cuss. I think it makes a statement when people see that you don't cuss, but still are not "shocked" when they do.

After coming back to the discussion board, I realized my commentary did not necessarily reflect where I stand on Christians cussing. I was dealing more with my frustrations with one aspect of the issue. My understanding, and what we teach, is that we are to strive to be more 'Christ-like' as we grow and mature in our faith walk. Frankly, I have a hard time picturing Jesus standing on the mount slinging passages of profanity to make a point. I do believe our intent, our heart, is what we are measured by. Out of the mouth, the heart speaks. Sadly, in an era where people pride themselves in 'shock effect' language resounding across the airwaves and in every form of media, I personally find it a tragedy that, for many, their command of the English language (or whatever language) is so limited they have to rely on profanity to make a point. So, bottomline for me is this, I try to use language I would be comfortable using in conversation with Jesus. I do not think lightening will strike me if I utter a less than wonderful word, but if I am truly to be a reflection of Christ for others to see, I must speak as such. Yes, we will be striving as long as we walk the face of this earth on our journey to become more Christ-like and God knows all about it. We don't shock Him with crudeness and vulgarities, but it can't be pleasing either.

(Pam walks into the room, pours a big, strong cup of coffee and finds a seat on the sofa near the window)


James 3:6 says, "The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell."

Words have power, that's for sure. Is saying "oh, sh*t!" when you're upset any different than declaring "oh, shoot!" ?

How do you suppose God measures the words we say?

Edited by author 03-14-2006 09:59 AM
I recently had a conversation about this with a friend who trains church planting pastors. We didn't get to a conclusion, just more thinking. After reading this tread on cussing this morning, I opened my bible to read. I've been reading James, chapter 3:1-2 and vs. 6 stuck out like a sore thumb... hmm, more think and praying on this one is required (at least for me).

This is a drum I have beat on for years! I serve in the ministry as a missionary, am married to a preacher man, lead teams on international missions, and write Bible studies and Christian educational materials. This is my lifestyle, not a hobby I pull out to impress. However, nothing riles me more than to hear Christians substitute their own words for common cuss words and think they've stepped 'above' the common cussing individual. I had a friend that would be agast if you pointed out cussing in her vocabulary when she used 'quit your gritching'instead of bitching. And don't even get me started on the over use and abuse of 'praise the Lord'! Just yesterday, my husband, a sincere man of God, uttered through clentched teeth, "Praise the Lord!" as a nail he was attempting to pound into a post went all cock-eyed. Now, was he earnestly praising the Lord at that moment? Not in my opinion. It was the same old switch and bait game. Let's face it, if 'a rose by any other name would smell as sweet', a cuss word comes from intent regardless of how you try to dress it up and there is no way to make that smell sweet.

i was a preacher's kid and now i'm a pastor...and i personally am not comfortable cussing. never have - don't think i ever will. to me it's less about being "wrong" and more about disciplined speech. my wife and i have always thought that if it sounded bad for a four year old to say it, it probably shouldn't be said. we don't use the "big bad cuss words" at our house...but we also don't use the "minors" like crap and piss. AND we also don't use words like stupid, idiot, and dumb. i guess we're just old fashioned. i'm glad people are finding comfort in others who curse...although i'm not sure comfort is what they should be seeking.

F*ckin' A!

I once heard a preacher using the word "sh*t" in a talk about poverty and he said the problem was that more people would be offended by the fact he swore than by the fact that millions of people are suffering and dieing because of poverty!
That aside as a youth worker I come across bad language a lot and for a lot of young people it's part of their every day language. To tell them to stop it is virtually impossible- although a lot of then apologise as soon as they've said it.
The rule we've tried to adopt is that if the swear word is meant in a malicious way and to put somebody down then we intervene, otherwise we leave it.
I had a young person come up to me once and say "I f*ckin love this youth club and how you look after us". It made me laugh at the time because his heart was in the right place even if his mouth wasn't. In the end I accepted the compliment as it was intended.

Swearing is also cultural. I remember being chided once by an insurance adjustor I *had* to work with on a claim and at one point he said something that was patently obvious as if it were a great revelation of fact. I said "No sh*t!" He said "Please don't swear." I tested his knowledge--he thought swearing was only the words he knew; when I said "Bugger" or "Sod" or the like, he was... um, sodding clueless. :)

Both my wife and I are perfectly comfortable with a lot of the basic adjectives and adverbs and use them freely around the house (though not usually in our jobs). But while I'd say "Oh, h---!" if I forget to do something or "F--- you" quite freely to someone, in jest or in anger, someone has to have done something truly amazing to get me to say "Go to H---!" Now that's swearing, in my opinion!

I just read Pam's story, & boy, what a relief it was to hear that someone from her background could be down to earth & not be false......In fact, Pam, if it is okay, I printed out your story to send to a friend of mine in Nevada....She is definitely questioning some of her beliefs right now, & has so many people telling her that she shouldn't have material things, watch movies that are based on Christian production companies....that she's going to go to hell because of what she has in her home.....I told her to tell the person that they have their opinion & she has hers....I told her that is a "Christian" accidentally hit their thumb or finger while hammering something into the wall or shingles on a roof, they're probably going to come out with something like Oh sh*t, that hurt like hell......So, I say, more power to you Pam....we all need to read things like this.....it should be okay to be yourself & not put up a false front for someone else...

Thanks for sharing your story....

Well, all I can say is, "whew!" I, too, am a cussing Christian and there is no way anybody can speak humanly and freely while feeling afraid that they will be judged. And as soon as someone gets fussed about the nature of the language being used, that is judging. Which only makes me cuss more. In fact, the friend I'm least likely to cuss around is the one who doesn't like it but accepts me as I am when I do.

Thanks, Pam, for sharing so honestly.