New, you can represent yourself, does your union have any experience and rep other's. As said before, the most important thing is to file formal ON TIME. Look up the EEOC official site, and you follow the federal sector 1614 regulations. The MD-110 is the guidelines for processing. You can go to your union site and download the PO's manual for EEOC. It's either 306 or 603. And it's kind of easy to read.

Royals02....OK you have the DD-214. Now do you have a death certificate? Before you file a claim with the MSPB you must prove you are the widow of a combat veteran. When you file the first items management challenges are timeliness, we have that beat because they fail to give you your rights and eligibility. At this point the Judge will order you to prove you are entitled to MSPB protection. I will come up with the citations and hopefully have time to "represent" you. By "represent" I mean once you have proven you are entitled and management can't figure out how else they can screw you the Judge will order you back to work with full back pay and benefits and order management to give you your rights. They must pay you whether you go to work or not. Sit home, collect and enjoy the situation for awhile. The must terminate you all over again...30 days from the time you receive the notice. Then you file again. It get complicated but once you know how the game is played you'll be fine. Oh BTW...when I play the game...I cheat. Forget the VEOA, not you. Don't file anything yet until you have the evidence that I mentioned above e.g., DD-214 and death certificate. You are on the rolls until final adjudication. As for your local, perhaps they count on other people to learn how to battle management. YOU WILL be a warrior after this. You took their best shot...after some experience its time for PAY BACK.

NY....I went online to start filling out the MSBP complaint and I had a couple of questions that I hope you can answer. Am I filing this as a "veterans preference" claim? Do I have to file a VEOA with the Department of Labor first? Like you said, questions, questions,...lol Thanks for your time and help

NY...One more question...should I go online today to MSPB and file a claim?

Hey NY....Thanks for the reassurance...Yes, I have my husband's DD214, he always told me that it was one of the MOST important papers he had. As for the PS-50, I didnt get one after being terminated but I pulled out an old one and it lists vterans pref as "1-no preference", which makes me feel like thats a bad thing. I sent an email to my congressman and will call his office this afternoon if I dont hear something back via email. When I mentioned about being "put of of the building"....thats the day the postal service gave me my termination letter. I guess here being "put out of the building" is a gentler way of saying being fired or terminated. Also, is it correct that I'm getting my paystubs showing me in a leave without pay status if I've been terminated. Why wouldn't my local advise me about MSPB...it just all feel so WRONG to me...Thanks again for being there for me

#1..and remember this always, you are not a pain, you are a person in need of help and some of us are attempting to provide whatever knowledge and information we have gained over the years dealing with the devil, or as some people call them...postal management, a oxymoron if ever there was one. If in the event you receive a letter of demand for the pay you have a right to request a bill of particulars, EXACTLY why management claims you owe this money. It is your right. Have the union file a grievance citing Article 28. If anyone is responsible it is the person who place you into a pay status. This person did not apply, "reasonable" care when handling postal funds (paycheck). What do mean, "put out of the building?". Were you told you committed a crime or were dangerous to yourself or other? Did they tell you why you were "put out of the building"? If you can get a copy of that schedule that could be a help. NOW....I know something ain't right. Did you get a PS form 50...notice of personal action? On that form, on the left hand side should be a veterans preference. Is it marked 5 or 10 or 15? Do you have a copy of your husband's discharge papers? Its called a DD-214? I know, questions, questions...but these are important. You may be able to stick management pretty good if the information I ask for is what I think it is. And the best part? You can file the paperwork yourself with a couple of "ringers" in your pocket. The best case scenario is your job back, back pay and the desire to learn as much as you can to protect yourself and help others. That is how I become what I am today, a half ass wiseguy who was burnt, turned around and roasted management and became a self taught knowledgeable person willing to help anyone getting picked on. If a bully is after you...you have only one choice...get yourself a BIGGER bully...that would be me. And as soon as PEA comes back, I am sure we will have fun with your tormentors. PS...don't forget the congress-person tomorrow ok? There are never dumb questions...only dumb answers. The APWU is I'm afraid to say weak in my area. The carriers are very much disliked by management cause we BITE back.

Sorry again, but I'm sitting here thinking about things and wondering whether they make a difference or not...so I'm just going to throw it out there. After I was terminated, I continued to receive full pay, sick leave credit and vacation time for about a month. I called the union to find out if they knew why and ofcourse it stopped with the next pay check and they told me the postal service COULD demand that money back. But my question is, wasn't someone putting my time in so that I would get paid...not sure how that works. Subsequent to that, a holiday had occurred and someone from work called and said they thought that I was coming back because I had been drafted to work overtime/my holiday. I called the union about that (being terminated yet scheduled to work my holiday) and they said technically the post office could write me up for not showing up when I was scheduled to work....I don't understand that either. Right now, I still receive paystubs every 2 weeks showing me as LWOP...I called the union on that too...and they said, yeah thats the way its supposed to be. Any thoughts on this info. Thanks again....sorry if I'm beaing a pain...lol

Just one other thing I forgot to mention and I'm not sure if it makes a difference or not...the day I was put out of the building...there was no union stewards on the premises, so I had no representation. I don't know if it was a postal move because they knew there wouldn't be a steward scheduled to work that night or even if the union knew what was coming down that night.

NY WiseGuy and PEA....thanks..talking with you is giving me at least a glimmer of hope because I had absolutely no idea that there were avenues I could take on my own and not just wait hopelessly for the union to help. I only wish that I had found this website sooner....and to answer your question yes, my husband was a Vietnam Vet

Welcome back PEA!!! MSPB stands for Merit Systems Protection Board. It apperars as though your union is just going through the motions. Inform them you had spoken to someone who suggested you file a unfair labor practice charge to wit: duty of fair representation and see how they react. It may light a fire under their ass to do the right thing. With time constraints the congress person is the best bet at this moment. Has your attendance improved substantially? Postal Employee Advocate is better trained then I am. Was your husband in the armed forces during a war or combat campaign? Thsi means did he receive a campaign ribbon or medals? Hopefull he did. You would than be able to file a MSPB charge and win. This means they must start all over again by giving you your rights. The good news? They must make you whole, meaning back pay and benefits. Don't give up. Pa huh? One never knows.

Sorry guys. I’ve been using my allotted forum time on another site that is dedicated to discussing the war and other similar matters. I’m sure they’ll be glad to do without me for a while.
It’s too bad that the unions are still agreeing to LCA’s. They amount to a personnel death-sentence. Generally, the only ones that survive the period of enforcement (not more than two years) are those who already have management’s favor. In my opinion, no one should ever agree to an LCA. Take it to arbitration, Board appeal, whatever – just say no. Of course that means that the P.O will go ahead and try to fire you, but how else are you going to be able to let a judge know what the circumstances really were? Acceptance of an LCA is tantamount to an admission of guilt.
Moving on. Royals02 – I haven’t seen you present much information that would necessarily support a prima facie case of discrimination. NYWiseguy is right – you need to find out if there are other employees, who are similarly situated to you (same craft, same supervisor, etc.), who also had similar or worse attendance issues than you, but were not similarly disciplined. These others must be of a different class or group than you (different race, color, national origin, sex, age, religion, or disability). With regard to other employees committing more serious offenses than you, but not treated as harshly – you might be able to make that case IF the judge doesn’t dismiss it as not substantially similar. Keep in mind that if you think you might have an EEO case, you have to contact a Postal Service EEO counselor within 45-days of the date of the action you allege was discriminatory. You can do that by calling 888-336-8777 and asking for an EEO packet.
If you are the widow of a preference eligible veteran (5 or 10 point vet – not necessarily disabled vet), then yes the P.O. must provide you with a proposed action at least 30-days in advance of implementing it. If they did not advise you of your M.S.P.B. (Merit Systems Protection Board – once known as the Civil Service Commission) appeal rights, then the action is procedurally defective. Similarly, if you were a widow prior to the LCA, and the LCA did not advise or inform you that it could have an effect on your M.S.P.B. appeal rights, you may be able to defeat the LCA as procedurally defective as well. Generally, you must file a Board appeal within 30-days of the effective date of the adverse action. Those time limits can be waived if you were not advised of them by the P.O. You can fill out the form at www.mspb.org.
With regard to the N.L.R.B. Unfair Labor Practice charge, you only have 60-days to file from the date the violation occurred. You can fill out the form at www.nlrb.org. The union must represent you regardless of whether you are a union member. If they fail to represent you because you filed an ULP charge, that’s a new ULP based on retaliation – another no-no.
Finally, in the interim, as soon as the removal date becomes effective, go file for unemployment. Of course it’s not much but it’s better than a poke in the eye with a stick.
Okay – off to Florida for a few days for a hearing (nothing fun) so if I don’t respond right away it’s not because I’m ignoring anyone.

NY Wise Guy.....Thanks again for answering me. I want to answer some of your questions. Yes, I am a union member and have been since day one of joining the post office. My husband was a veteran, although not disabled. The individuals I mentioned in my previous posts (pot smokers,etc.) were mail handlers....I cant believe their union can get them their jobs back and my union cant. I am located in PA...actually moved here from Long Island about 14 years ago. You mentioned something in your response about my MSPB rights....I dont know what MSPB stands for. I will call my congressman first thing Monday morning. Can you tell me how I go about filing an unfair labor practice complaint against the union and won't doing that adversely affect any chance I have of the local actually trying to help me....even though at this point it doesn't seem like they are. Thanks again

royalso2...are you a union member? The unions have no legal obligation to represent you in EEO/MSPB matters. They MUST represent you in the grievance procedure. I ask this because something doesn't sound "right".
You have 45 days to file a EEO complaint from the time you received notice of removal. You have 6 months to file a unfair labor practice against the union for violtaing the duty of fair representation. Have you contacted your Congressional representative for help? The incidents of butt touching and smoking pot would help you if you are denied in arbitration. Were these people similarly situation? e.g., both clerks such as yourself? Was your husband a disabled vet? If so...you can nail the agency big time for denying you your MSPB rights. What section of the nation you from? The best bet right now is to contact your congress person and tell them what you are going through. Keep us in touch via the forum ok?
NEW....file the formal to remain timely. As I don't know your circumstances I can not be of any help other than tell you TO FILE.
Hey PEA....where are you????

NYWiseguy and rorer...thanks so much for responding...I will provide some details here. Its a bit of a long story but I will try to keep it as concise as possible. I began working for USPS in 94 in a REC site. The site closed in 99 and we were all excessed. I wound up in a facility where I had to travel 86 miles to and from work each day, Tour 1...thats close to 2 hours each way. I decided not to relocate at the time because of my husband's job and my children's school. In 2001 my husband was diagnosed with cancer and in July 02, he passed away. At that time, I exhausted all of my sick leave and annual and then received a call from management that I had to get back to work. My oldest son left for college in Aug of that year, so I had to leave my 2 youngest, 10 and 13 at the time, alone, all night long while I was 86 miles away. Up until that time, even when my husband was sick, I never, ever had any attendance problems and had even gotten letters from management at the REC site thanking me for reporting for work during inclement weather. I did try to get into any location closer to home, but everthing around here is small AO's and I would have had to go PTF with only a guarantee of 20hrs a week. I obviously could not financially afford to do this. I struggled to help my kids cope with the loss of their dad...and to be responsible at work. I did develop some medical issues for which I did have FMLA. However, I ran out of hours for eligibility.
I am not having a pity party here but my kids HAD to come first. If they needed me for something and I put in a 3971 that was denied, I would call off. I tried to do things "the postal" way, but they often made it impossible. I have put in changes of schedule and 3971's that were denied due to "staffing", because thats their answer to everything. They only "do" for those they want to. Just as an example, there was a woman whose daughter was killed in a car accident. The UNION advised management to issue a letter to the supervisors that no action should be taken against her and that she would be out as long as she needed to be. I know this is true because I saw the memo with my own eyes. Meanwhile, I was called when my husband died and told I had to get back to work. Just doesnt seem fair.
Management did follow procedure...discussion, LOW, 7 day, 14 day...all of which i grieved and none of which the union settled. As a matter of fact when I received the 14day, it was to be served in-house and the suspension was to begin before allowing 10 days for the greivance to be filed. It seems as if that should have just been thrown out from the get go. The union came to me with the "last chance" agreement and said that that was the best they could do. If I had realized the seriousness of that document I never would have signed it. They NOW tell me, that once you violate that agreement, chances of going to arbitration and getting your job back are slim to none. I call them periodically to find out whats going on and they say, its stuck at step 2 (whatever that means), and that I shouldnt get my hopes up.
People have been terminated where I work for getting arrested for smoking pot in the parking lot on postal property, another one got terminated twice for touching women's butts or breasts. All of these individuals got their jobs back. And I sit here and wonder why I can't. My work has always been impeccable and I'be never had issues with any of the supervisors or co-workers.
Prior to being terminated,I did use EAP...turned out they were nothing more then a referral service. They gave me the name of a counsellor in my area, who was practically useless. So I went to one on my own, whose answer was to hand me antidepressants, antianxiety med and sleeping pills. I didnt think that drugging myself up was the answer either. I am not denying my attendance has been horrendous since my husband passed away and I know the postal service is in the business of getting the mail out and apparently no one cares about the "human" factor.
I have been reluctant to take any actions against the postal service or the union hoping that I would get my job back and hoping that the union would help me. At this point, unemployed and foreclosure looming I am desperate. I dont know what to do or where to go. Its by the grace of God that I found this website and you guys answered me. I'm sorry that this was so long but I wanted to give you as much info as I can. Any advise you can offer would be so appreciated. Thank you so much for listening.

NY WISE GUY
I just rec'd an aswer to the Pre-complaint I filed
for denying me my window bid. All it says is what the
Supervisor says, they call it "Investigation"
Now I'm filing a formal complaint.
I don't know how to go about finding a Rep.
I have 15 days to file a formal. Is there anything I should
know before I fill out form 2565. I'm in CA.

Rorer714 I disagree with you totally about the progression in discipline. I never was put on restricted sick leave or had a letter of warning or anything to that effect but was sent a letter of removal for missing work due to my daughters sicknesses that was documented by FMLA paperwork. What did the union do here, ah..............nothing. Its hard to scold the person you sleeping with everyday if you get my drift. The union needs to realize why they are what they are and start doing their job and stop trying to step on others backs to get self glorification and promotions. This wasnt a stewart either it was a president and when you call NBA to report they say WE DONT GET INVOLVED. Fine line between management and union my friend and if you are not seeing it then visit the bedroom more often. LOL