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| jimy
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08-19-2008 10:14 PM ET (US)
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| darmonrac
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08-16-2008 02:30 PM ET (US)
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cnadronbosi
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Messages 12-11 deleted by topic administrator between 07-20-2008 02:25 AM and 07-18-2008 02:28 AM |
| danke
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06-29-2008 06:12 PM ET (US)
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| Matthew
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07-21-2006 04:07 PM ET (US)
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| Seth Koterba
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01-18-2006 08:41 AM ET (US)
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Edited by author 01-18-2006 08:42 AM
So my understanding of these periodic tables of visual elements is that if we look at a plane defined by two of the dimensions of the plenoptic function, then if there is some response to a particular filter we can find the table associated with that filter and look up what the visual element that caused that response was. Basically it is a mapping from filter responses to visual elements just as Mendeleevs periodic table is a mapping from atomic number, valences, etc. is to the physical elements.
My question, with regard to this idea of periodic table of the visual elements is this: How strong must the response be to consider a particular visual element present? Certainly filter responses are not binary so how do we deal with this gray area when the response is weak? Can a visual element be mmm…kinda there?
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| David Lee
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01-18-2006 02:05 AM ET (US)
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I think plenoptic functions shouldn't be considered as a model for human vision system. They do not describe how the cells work, but rather describe what they can possibly do.
Adelson was clever to find a way to organize low-level features within combination of 2 out of 5 dimensions that can be processed in the early part of the vision system. It would be interesting to watch all of the boxes in his "periodic table" get filled by future researchers. I really do appreciate his work. But as the author pointed out a few times in his paper, there are stimuli (even simple ones) which involve more than 2 dimensions. In that case, his cute 2D squares depicting a stimulus will become cubes in 3D, 4D, ... and it will no longer look cute.
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| Stefan Zickler
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01-17-2006 11:58 PM ET (US)
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As a follow-up to Gunhee's question on whether this model really coincides with what living vision cells do: As far as I know, visual cell's activation patterns do in fact at least partially correlate with several of the presented operators of the plenoptic function. Not only has there been psychophysical evidence such as presented in the papers' appendix, but there has also been more recent neuro-scientific evidence which shows similar response patterns as those of plenoptic derivative operators. I remember one particular cognitive science talk where they actually measured life cell activation patterns of a ferret's visual cortex using microwire electrodes. It turns out that the activation pattern really represents basic visual features (such as contrast, orientation). I believe this is the paper matching the talk: http://www.bcs.rochester.edu/people/weliky...n_natural_scene.pdf
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| Gunhee Kim
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01-17-2006 11:39 PM ET (US)
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Edited by author 01-17-2006 11:42 PM
I think the main contribution of this paper is to establish a mathematically plausible model for the elements of early vision based on many psychophysical and physiological evidences. (Am I Right?)
Currently, is Adelsons model one of very plausible hypothesizes or a proven fact? (because this paper is quite old ( Published in 1991.)) Is it true that our visual cells (I'm sorry I'm not familiar with biological terminology) work like a combination of derivative and smoothing functions?
Another fundamental question; how important is it for us (computer scientists) to follow up this kind of research (Cognitive science?) I totally agree that it has been provided us with many good ideas or insights to develop new computer vision algorithms.
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| Alyosha Efros
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01-17-2006 05:12 PM ET (US)
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| Tomasz Malisiewicz
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01-17-2006 04:25 PM ET (US)
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I want to quote the following from the paper:
"The significance of the plenoptic function is this: The world is made of three-dimensional objects, but these objects do not communicate their properties directly to an observer. Rather, the objects fill the space around them with the pattern of light rays that constitutes the plenoptic function, and the observer takes samples from this function. The plenoptic function serves as the sole communication link between physical objects and their corresponding retinal images. It is the intermediary between the world and the eye."
I think that Adelson is being overly metaphysical when he says this. This plenoptic function reminds me of the ether, a stationary material medium that pervades all space, which you might have heard about during an introduction to Einstein's theory of special relativity.
Although it is beneficial to talk about a function whose dimensions correspond to basic visual properties, it might be a better idea to simply talk about embedding basic visual measurements in a vector space instead of making deeper philosophical claims regarding the existence of the plenoptic function.
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| David Thompson
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01-17-2006 04:12 PM ET (US)
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I guess this is pretty trivial, but I'm sort of confused about their use of the term "pencil." I had always taken it to mean "a one-parameter family of lines." But here they use it to refer to the set of all lines passing through a point in E3. But this is a 2-dimensional family, right (spherical coordinates, or the cartesian coordinates of a picture plane)?
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Dave Bradley
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01-15-2006 02:31 PM ET (US)
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This discussion board is for any thoughts/questions you might have on the physiology of vision and "the plenoptic function and the elements of early vision" by Adelson and Bergen
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