yea i agree with you..
thats ok i went in back to the youth room to count the money for steves thing we youth are going to get him:D
anyway im so happy that your wall has fallen down...
i think whats wrong with me is all the issues in my life are effecting me and i dont know how to handle them and i try to be the light in a dark place where satan is taking over (family sometimes)and its hard.
i guess the only thing i can do is keep praying and just have faith in my prayers that our father will get it and answer me it just takes time..
yea pastor rick is a wonderful source to talk to!
you should give me a call i have a question to ask you!actually email me because i dont know what kind of people come on here that prey over that kind of info...im not saying all of us are bad i just dont know who can see all this!
do you thing its because i havent been reading my bible alot(busy schedual)
that im getting the feeling that hes not responding to prayer?

im going to get reading it again i feel so empty without it and feel like im falling away from my father:(
thanks muriel..
talk to you soon
god bless you!

HI Kristin, sorry&#A0;our conversation was interupted yesterday.&#A0; To talk after church you really need to go somewhere private if&#A0;the conversatin is such you dont want to be interrupted. Anyway I was going to tell you that I&#A0;experienced what you are about three years ago when my sister died.&#A0; I felt&#A0;like there was a block on my prayers and they were not going anywhere.&#A0; I talked to Pastor Rick about it and he prayed that&#A0;any block that Satan had put there would be lifted.&#A0; It took a while but I was able to get through it.&#A0; I really believe that fasting and reading the Bible are the only ways to prevent it as well as get through it.&#A0; I told you the fasting was one thing I am weak on but i want to start with a consistant fasting pattern that works for me ( i cant do it while I,m working) anyway there are some big issues in my famirly right now that I&#A0;my prayers will only be answered if I&#A0;fast as well as pray.&#A0; I have seen some answers already (Praise God) but i think if I am really sincere about giving everything to God I need to do this.&#A0; Hope this helps, lets keep in close touch about this. You are a special young lady.&#A0; God has much in&#A0;store for you love muriel --- On Fri, 8/8/08, QT - KRISTIN <qtopic-34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> wrote:
From: QT - KRISTIN <qtopic-34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com>
Subject: Christian Discussion
To: "QT topic subscribers" <qtopic-subs@quicktopic.com>
Date: Friday, August 8, 2008, 11:22 AM

�A;�A;�A;
< replied-to message removed by QT >

yeah we will have to get together and talk soon.
thanks for all your help muriel!!
i appreciate it!

thanks for the reply.&#A0; You have chosen very good sources to talk to. They are all soundly rooted in God and the Bible, but it would be great for us to talk. Even though I had been saved for many years it has only been in the last 10 years or so that I have really commited my life to God and want to be in the center of his will. So I am still learning and growing too. It just warms my heart to see young people who are commited to finding Gods direction in their life and seeking to learn more of him. I wasted many years that I cant get back but I'm determined not to waste any more.&#A0; So we will talk I love seeing young people grow and not be afraid to ask for advice and counsol from those who have traveled the road you are now on. We will talk soon muriel
--- On Sat, 8/9/08, QT - KRISTIN <qtopic-34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> wrote:
From: QT - KRISTIN <qtopic-34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com>
Subject: Christian Discussion
To: "QT topic subscribers" <qtopic-subs@quicktopic.com>
Date: Saturday, August 9, 2008, 12:44 AM

�A;�A;�A;
< replied-to message removed by QT >

thanks so much muriel...
yeah i would love to sit one on one and talk...
i talked to dawn about this before a while back and it is bothering me again.
i usually go to her with all my problems because shes family or i go to dave,shirley,wayne,joy or glenn because there my aunts and uncles but sure i would love to sit one on one..
if you want heres my email (cheeks4128@aol.com)
thanks again for your help!!!
LOVE,
kristin gillespie

Hi Kristin, I hope this message reaches you. Computer's are not my area of expertise so I never know if I'm doing right. Anyway so good to hear from you. Yes God does hear our prayers. If he didnt, he would not have commanded us to pray without ceasing. I am also learning alot about prayer. Pastor Rick has been teaching us alot about prayer, expecially about how fasting and prayer go together. Fasting is still something that I am not consistent with, but again through prayer and studying my Bible more I am learning. I think God expects us to be very specific in our prayer request also. Sometimes we may not know all the details but I try and pray for a specific need or a name if I know it. We definetly need to pray for ourselves. All of us have weaknesses in our lives and I commit these specifically to God. I tend to be a worrier and I have been really asking God to deliver me from worry and to leave my needs with him. Not that God does not expect us to take responsibilty for our actions and deal with our day to day situations but I am trying to ask God to help me know how to deal with specific issues and not to just worry about them. So if there are specific areas in your life that you are struggling with you need to voice them to the Lord and ask for direction in dealing with them Alot to discuss here but lets talk one on one sometime about this. You are a lovely young women that is growing in Christ and I will be praying for you that God will direct you as you search to know more of him. Love muriel

yes this is kristin gillespie?

Is this Kristen Gillespie?

________________________________

From: QT - KRISTIN [1] Sent: Wed 7/30/2008 10:38 AM
To: QT topic subscribers
Subject: Christian Discussion



< replied-to message removed by QT >

how do you know if god can here your prayers..
like for me i pray and pray for the same people in my life,mom,dad,aunts uncles,cousins,pastors,congregation, illnesses over people..
and i pray for all these people and feel like its not really going any where..
any advice that can help me???

and i pray for everyone and dont bother to pray for myself is that a bad thing???
it not that i dont want to pray for myself its that i kinda forget..

thanks,
kristin

im getting it too

Cecil

I see what you mean Cecil. Some things are so obvious that we think the real treasure is hidden from us. God didn't hide his gift from us. We have overcomplicated the real message God has given. Love one another and Love our God. Just as the father of your story did not hold the true value of his rembrandt's at a higher esteem then the painting of his son.
The father new nothing could replace the love that he had for his son, just as our Lord values the love for his children. You and I

MY SON
This is great, take a moment to read it, it will make your day!

The ending will surprise you




Take my Son



  
A wealthy man and his son loved to collect rare works of art. They had everything in their collection, from Picasso to Raphael. They would often sit together and admire the great works of art.


  


When the Vietnam conflict broke out, the son went to war. He was very courageous and died in battle while rescuing another soldier. The father was notified and grieved deeply for his only son.


  


About a month later, just before Christmas, there was a knock at the door. A young man stood at the door with a large package in his hands.


  

He said, "Sir, you don't know me, but I am the soldier for whom your son gave his life. He saved many lives that day, and he was carrying me to safety when a bullet struck him in the heart and he died instantly. He often talked about you, and your love for art." The young man held out this package. "I know this isn't much. I'm not really a great artist, but I think your son would have wanted you to have this."


  

The father opened the package. It was a portrait of his son, painted by the young man. He stared in awe at the way the soldier had captured the personality of his son in the painting. The father was so drawn to the eyes that his own eyes welled up with tears. He thanked the young man and offered to pay him for the picture. "Oh, no sir, I could never repay what your son did for me. It's a gift."


  

The father hung the portrait over his mantle. Every time visitors came to his home he took them to see the portrait of his son before he showed them any of the other great works he had collected.


  


The man died a few months later. There was to be a great auction of his paintings Many influential people gathered, excited over seeing the great paintings and having an opportunity to purchase one for their collection.


  


On the platform sat the painting of the son The auctioneer pounded his gavel. "We will start the bidding with this picture of the son. Who will bid for this picture?"


  


There was silence.


  



Then a voice in the back of the room shouted, "We want to see the famous paintings. Skip this one."


  


But the auctioneer persisted. "Will somebody bid for this painting. Who will start the bidding? $100, $200?"


  


Another voice angrily. "We didn't come to see this painting. We came to see the Van Goghs, the Rembrandts. Get on with the real bids!"


  


But still the auctioneer continued. "The son! The son! Who'll take the son?"


  


Finally, a voice came from the very back of the room. It was the longtime gardener of the man and his son. "I'll give $10 for the painting." Being a poor man, it was all he could afford.


  


"We have $10, who will bid $20?"


  


"Give it to him for $10. Let's see the masters."


  


"$10 is the bid, won't someone bid $20?"


  


The crowd was becoming angry. They didn't want the picture of the son.


  


They wanted the more worthy investments for their collections.


  


The auctioneer pounded the gavel. "Going once, twice, SOLD for $10!"


  



A man sitting on the second row shouted, "Now let's get on with the collection!"


  


The auctioneer laid down his gavel. "I'm sorry, the auction is over."


  


"What about the paintings?"


  



"I am sorry. When I was called to conduct this auction, I was told of a secret stipulation in the will. I was not allowed to reveal that stipulation until this time. Only the painting of the son would be auctioned. Whoever bought that painting would inherit the entire estate, including the paintings.


  



The man who took the son gets everything!"


  


God gave His son 2,000 years ago to die on the cross. Much like the auctioneer, His message today is: "The son, the son, who'll take the son?"


  



Because, you see, whoever takes the Son gets everything.


  



FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, WHO SO EVER BELIEVETH, SHALL HAVE ETERNAL LIFE...THAT'S LOVE

One more test, please delete.

Drew

< replied-to message removed by QT >

Sorry, yet another test. Ignore and delete

Took me a while to respond but I'm receiving too!

I want a more intimate relationship with Jesus, my Savior, a more sensitive spirit to hear the Holy Spirit, more discipline to receive power and strength to be obedient. The Bible says, "you will seek Me and find Me if you seek Me with all your heart." I know this is where it will come from; that's my goal, to seek Him with all my heart this year.
I want to seek out and do a better job of communicating with those of you who are key point people in the ministries of our church.
 
Jerry Johnston

Me to

Maybe how people reacted after 9-11 was a sign of just how much we as a people need another revival. I wonder about the 50 year cycle. Could it have to do with believers not handing off to the next generation thier beliefs, not educating thier heirs about the wonders of our Heavenly Father? If so it is all the more reason for us to focus on spreading the truth of Jesus Christ today, tommorrow and each and every day after that. We will as a Church do whatever it takes to make sure our children will not miss out on having a personal relationship with thier Lord and Savior. We have rolled up our sleeves, now it's time to get to work. God is speaking to you as you read this, listen, very carefully listen, thank Him for giving you direction and let' roll!

me too, Big Daddy Karp

A.J. is subscribed to this message board.

You can add my name to the list. Bonnie



 
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Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $420,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - Calculate new house payment < replied-to message removed by QT >

Yup! I'm receiving messages by email.
Dawn

I'm in.

I am subscribed. Tom the Dad.

I am subscribed

Your wife


On 11/8/06, QT - Steve Karp <qtopic+34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> wrote: >
>
< replied-to message removed by QT >

I am getting the messages from QT through my hotmail :)
Sarah



 <3 Sarah Phil. 4: 6-7

From: QT - Drew Pawlicki <qtopic+34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> Reply-To: QT topic 34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi <qtopic+34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> To: QT topic subscribers <qtopic+subs@quicktopic.com>
Subject: Christian Discussion
Date: 8 Nov 2006 08:14:00 -0800
>--QT------------------------------------------------------------- > Reply by email or visit > http://www.quicktopic.com/34/H/PSHP4ybEuAaGi/m89 >-------------------------------------------------------------- -- > >For those of you disheartened by some of the elections please >read Psalms 37. Even if you're not disheartened please read it. > >Also I have no clue who is subscribed to this message board. I >have many email contacts, but I don't want to double up on >messages. So could please make a posting on here with your name >if you are a subscriber that receives emails from here. This >will also help me in determining some new things with >www.fraserroad.com. >_________________________________________________________________ >To unsubscribe: http://www.quicktopic.com/34/X/PSHP4ybEuAaGi >Start your own topic in 20 seconds: http://www.quicktopic.com |QT


  Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and moreÂ…then map the best route!

Im subscribed....

                          -Cullen


On 11/8/06, QT - Steve Karp <qtopic+34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> wrote: >
>



--
Lata,
     ***C-Len***
< replied-to message removed by QT >

I am subscribed Drew, at last count I think there were about 15/16 people subscribed
< replied-to message removed by QT >

I'm getting these messages.

Debbie Ninemire
> Also I have no clue who is subscribed to this message board. I
> have many email contacts, but I don't want to double up on
> messages. So could please make a posting on here with your name
> if you are a subscriber that receives emails from here. This
> will also help me in determining some new things with
> www.fraserroad.com.
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe: http://www.quicktopic.com/34/X/PSHP4ybEuAaGi
> Start your own topic in 20 seconds: http://www.quicktopic.com |QT
>

I am a subscriber to QT.

For those of you disheartened by some of the elections please read Psalms 37. Even if you're not disheartened please read it.

Also I have no clue who is subscribed to this message board. I have many email contacts, but I don't want to double up on messages. So could please make a posting on here with your name if you are a subscriber that receives emails from here. This will also help me in determining some new things with www.fraserroad.com.

THE 50-YEAR CYCLE of AWAKENINGS in USA - URGENT!"
-by Andrew Strom.

Check out this 50-year cycle:

The First Great Awakening was approx 1741-1743.

The Second Great Awakening was roughly 1799-1807.
(-Though some say it lasted into the late 1820's and that it linked
up with Finney's revivals from the 1820's on. I think probably
Finney's were "in-between" the 2nd and 3rd).

I totally agree with those who state that 1857-1860 should be
considered the 3rd Great Awakening. (A massive worldwide "Prayer-
based" Revival. -Millions converted).

And then 1904-1910 (Wales, Azusa, India, Korea, China, etc)
should be considered the 4th Great Awakening.

And 1947-1955 should be considered the 5th.
(-Great Healing Revival in USA, plus Revivals in Africa, Hebrides,
Argentina, etc.)

Notice the (roughly) 50-year intervals between these 5 huge waves.
Yes - that's right. The USA has had FIVE GREAT AWAKENINGS -
at roughly 50-year intervals every time. And we are due for the next
one RIGHT NOW.

In other words, there is a kind of "Jubilee" cycle of Awakenings in
America, going back 250 YEARS. -But this can be lost if we do not press in.

Do you know - Wales used to be a "Land of Revivals" - even more
so than America. But they missed ONE WINDOW of Revival and
seemingly lost it all. Wales has not had a Revival now for 100 years.

Similarly - the 50 years is NOW UP for America. Will we enter into
our next Awakening in time??

Today I don't know of ANY OTHER NATION that has a 50-year
history of Revivals like the USA.

But it is possible to lose it (-like Wales did) and if that happens
it will be a DISASTER for this country. We must enter into Revival
while this "window" is open.

We need Revival pray-ers!! We need Revival preachers!!

It is URGENT that we do not miss this 50-year window. (For it is
now 50 years since the end of the last one.)

How terrible it would be to be the first generation in 250 years to
miss their "window" of Revival.

We need to PRAY!! We need to AGONIZE in prayer for this nation.
Surely America must not become another Wales??

God bless you all.

-Andrew Strom.

hi

One more thing I was just reminded of.

It must have looked pretty hopeless to Moses. His people (the Israelites) had rebelled against God, much like America has done. God had made up His mind he was going to destroy them for their wickedness. But Moses was righteous, and God heard Moses plea to save them, and Moses was able to change God's mind.

Jonah 1:1-2
Now the word of the Lord came to Jonah the son of Amittai, saying, 2 “Arise, go to Nineveh, that cgreat city, and cry out against it; for their wickedness has come up before Me.”

Our wickedness as a nation might be up before the Lord, but we have a voice like Moses. Instead of fleeing from it like Jonah did, lets check our hearts and purify ourselves before God, that he can hear our prayers. According to His word when our prayers come up before Him with a pure heart and pure motives He must answer them or else He would make Himself a liar.

Thanks for reading.

Drew

Elections,

America is entering a key turning point shortly. I believe the upcoming elections are extremely critical to the well being of our country. If you're like me, you're lost as to who to vote for and it makes you feel pretty helpless, BUT our God has the universe in the palm of his hand. Is there anything that He can't do? Is there anything He won't do for those who love Him?

It is written "The prayer of a righteous man avails much". Realize we still have almost 2 weeks to pray for the upcoming elections. Lets band together and pray for Godly men and women to be elected into offices. Lets pray that the evil ones are removed, and lets pray for protection on those in office that love God and seek His ways. We may not know who we're praying for, but God does. If we are united in our prayer, asking with a clean heart, and asking for the right motives, God promises in His word that He will answer our prayer and give us what we ask.

Lets put God's word into action. Please send this to as many as you can as quickly as you can since there is only 2 weeks until election time. The more people that band with us in prayer, the stronger our voice becomes. Praise the Lord Jesus for His kindness and mercy.

Drew

“Looters of Our Lives”
 

            We guard what we value.

            Walk through a parking lot. To the left, an old, “seen way better days” pick up truck, more body putty than paint. Windows open, keys in the ignition, maybe even running. The owner as much as put a sign on it, “Take me, take me, PLEASE, somebody take me!” To the right, a late model Mercedes Benz, Corvette, Jaguar and Cadillac. BREATHE within three feet of them and an irritating, squawking horn erupts to make you the horrified object of passerby’s laughter and gawks. What’s the dif? We guard what we value.

            Tell me what you lock, protect, guard, insure, defend, and I’ll tell you what you value.

            Why is it, then, that we don’t guard our hearts?

 

            Military personnel in Iraq and Afghanistan wear body armor and helmets. Why? To guard their most vital organs, to protect their lives as much as possible. Why? We guard what we value.

            Why is it then that we do not guard our hearts?

 

Why? Is it that we don’t value our hearts? Must be, because we do not guard them?

Is it possible we don’t know what we have?

Is it possible we allow them to be trampled like yesterday’s newspaper, because we do not realize they are the very key to our lives? Listen to the words of the wisest man who ever lived.

 

"Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life." Proverbs 4:23 (NIV)

 

            “Above all else,” = more than any other possession, as our most valuable asset in all the world, as that which we would defend to the death, protect with every ounce of strength. “Above all else” said Solomon. Yet we don’t… because we do not realize it is the source of all that matters.

 

Instead …

            we give our hearts, or in the very least, open our hearts to so many things that steal, plunder, ravage – we allow our hearts to be turned into playgrounds for activities we would never admit except under duress.

            we open the door of our hearts just enough to allow them to be polluted, thinking it is still clean and end up with toxic hearts, not realizing a little poison destroys.

            we sometimes resist the intruders of our hearts at first, but allow them to keep their foot in the door until they talk their way into our hearts.

            we sometimes allow the neighbors to convince us to open the door of our hearts. Even when we can see the devastation the intruders have caused in others’ lives when they cannot.

            we sometimes believe the pleasant sounding promises of the intruders to fool us, even when we the angels of God are shouting that they are all lies.

 

            How often do we wade through the aftermath of the raiders of our hearts, view the havoc wreaked, the mess made, the filth flowing to feel the regret of allowing such to tramp on our hearts, vowing “Never again!” Only to foolishly unlock the door of our hearts once again?

 

            Is the problem that we do not realize the treasure we possess as owners of our hearts?

            Is the problem we do not value the Presence of Christ more than the marauders? Do we forget that to allow the marauders into our hearts is to expel Christ? Only one can occupy the heart. When the intruders walk in the front door, look to the back door. You will see the sad face of Christ, a tear slipping down his cheek as He shakes His head and walks out.

            

            There is another option. If, at the appearance of the intruders, we call to Christ, He will join us at the front door of our hearts. At the nod of our heads, He will close the door, lock it and stand guard over it. And no intruder, marauder, looter, barbarian can come through with Him there. Appealing, but He only aids if we ask.

 

            So, how’s your heart? Guarded or given to pollution? Not sure? There’s a sure fire way to know. Hear Jesus’ words.

 

Mat 15:18-20 (NIV) "But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.'""

 

So how’s your heart. No time like right now for some house cleaning.

After Pastor Rick shared about how he commits Scripture to memory, I decided to try his technique. The Scripture I picked to memorize first was II Timothy 3:16-17. Was that just chance that Dick Willette shared that Scripture with us? I think not! Good message too! God is good. Blessings, Dave
-- QT - Dick Willette <qtopic+34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> wrote:

________________________________________________________________ _______ Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
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Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!
< replied-to message removed by QT >

                         Sin – A Little Thing?
  NKJV: Romans 7:13.
   Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

                       “Sin...exceeding sinful.”

  Christian, beware how we thinkest lightly of sin. Take heed lest we fall little by little. Sin, a little thing? Is it not a poison? Who knows its deadliness? Sin, a little thing? Do not the little foxes spoil the grapes? Doth not the tiny coral insect build a rock which wrecks a navy? Do not little strokes fell lofty oaks? Will not continual droppings wear away stones?
     Sin, a little thing? It girded the Redeemer’s head with thorns, and pierced his heart! It made him suffer anguish, bitterness, and woe. Could you weigh the least sin in the scales of eternity, you would fly from it as from a serpent, and abhor the least appearance of evil. Look upon all sin as that which crucified the Saviour, and you will see it to be “exceeding sinful.”
Dave this is what I was talking about.

This was very uplifting to me! I agree, God will dwell with and bless a people ( church ) who are in unity and of one mind. This reminded me of a scripture that Dawn shared at camp-meeting; 2 Chronicles 13,14. The trumpeters and singers joined in unison as with one voice, to give praise and thanks to the Lord and sang:" He is good: his love endures forever." Then the temple of the Lord was filled with a cloud, and the priests could not perform their service because of the cloud, for the glory of the Lord filled the temple of God. I believe we are so close to experiencing the glory of the Lord filling the temple that we will not be able to continue our service, but only stand in awe and worship Him. So lets continue to unite our hearts, be of one mind, and sing praises with one voice and be expecting a mighty move of God! Blessings, Dave PS: Thanks Dick for sharing a word from the Lord.
-- QT - Dick Willette <qtopic+34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> wrote:

________________________________________________________________ _______ Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage.
Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!
< replied-to message removed by QT >

To my brothers and sisters at Fraser Road,
A million thanks to each of you for your willingness to serve and allow God to minister through you at St. Louis. I am blessed by you. I pray that returning to your home church will inspire you to reach out even more in the community there. Saginaw Valley SU is a field just waiting to be harvested. God keep you focused on His word and His Spirit lead you all.
Pastor Rick, Dawn, and Jerry do a great job leading! Praise our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ!

e-mail:mammaholm@yahoo.com

Unity of God's People

The standard of God’s Word is that His people would be one, just as Christ prayed.

John 17:21
“That they all may be one; as thou Father art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou has sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.”
Ephesians 4:4-6
“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
The man-made sects and creeds we see today are not the church that Jesus built. God never meant for His true people to be divided and to believe different doctrines, "for God is not the author of confusion..." I Corinthians 14:33. "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divison among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." I Corinthians 1:10.

In God’s true church, we have real unity and true divine love for the brethren–not just a “union” as sectism has, where they agree to disagree, with their confusing mess of beliefs and standards. To justify division among the people of God is to oppose the truth of the New Testament. Truly unity is a mark of the church of God.

I know that GOD'S people Dwell here.
See You at Camp Meeting
E:mail rdw@tds.net

Email address info.
For your information.
I know we all enjoy getting mail from friends and family, but PLEASE don't sign me up and send me one of those e-cards, as this is a start to junk mail. When you go to one of those FREE sites and create a e-card and then enter all of your friends email addresses to send it to, what you're really doing is signing them up to receive junk email. That website will most likely sell your email address, and then you will start receiving junk email. This is why these most of these sites are FREE.
It is possible that there are some honest sites out there, you'd have to read the disclaimers and privacy statements to find out. Most non computer people do not know this. My new email address once again is drew@KnowYourEternity.com and I'm trying to keep it junk mail free. Hope this is valuable information for somebody.

Thanks,
If you have any questions please feel free to ask,
Sincerely,
In His Service,
And Truly Yours, (inside joke)

Drew.

Drew,
So far your site looks great! Simple and to the point. The intro was great, and covered basically everything I've covered in conversation with that approach. I mentioned it to you once but never made much progress with my friend, but his mother works (how loosely, I'm not sure) with a billboard company. I'm excited to see this ministry grow as God sees fit!
Luke 1:37 "Nothing is impossible with God!"

-AJ-

On 7/11/06, QuickTopic daily digest
<qtopic+34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> wrote:
>
< replied-to message removed by QT >

Hi Drew, I have been to your web site a few times and think it is great. I did notice 2 things: The first questions that pop up flash off just a little to fast to read. On the home page when you click on the tabs on the left side it doesn't take you to the one you click on, it takes you to the last page you were on. But then if you click on it again it will take you to the right page. Let me know if this doesn't make sense to you. God Bless, Dave
-- QT - Drew Pawlicki <qtopic+34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> wrote:


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Also I have a new email address.
drew@KnowYourEternity.com

If you would like an email address ???@KnowYourEternity.com let me know and I can set you up with one. Just provide me with what you would like ??? to be (it can be more than 3 characters). I'm hoping using the email address will be a great way to witness. The login site is mail.KnowYourEternity.com.

Have a great day. May God bless you and protect you.

Drew.

I need your input. I feel I my website is far enough along to start using it. I realize it can be used for more than just bill board ministry. When you go to the website you will have to go through an intro taking you through what we've been learning regarding the law and conversion. I need your feedback on this, mostly on the message part. I want to start sharing this website with people, but I want to make sure its ready. Could you please give me your feedback ASAP. The website is
www.KnowYourEternity.com
Thanks. Drew

Thanks everyone for the birthday wishes! :)

Stevearino!!! A day late, but Happy Birthday!!! You old geezer...=)
Amanda Jane

On 6/6/06, QuickTopic daily digest
<qtopic+34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> wrote:
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< replied-to message removed by QT >

If I was as young as you Stave Carp.
I would have remembered to put your name on the email

Happy Birthday to you
Only one will not do
Born again means Salvation
How many are you?

                Cecil

Happy Birthday Steve Karp from our house to you!!!!


The Steudle's

Happy Birthday Steve, you whipper-snapper. I'm nearly double that age!

Happy Birthday STEVO-O! God Bless you brother! Little Brother that is. Come on??? 23?? I am approaching the BIG @( That is code on the computer board for 29! Have a great day!

Happy Birthday to you,
Happy Birthday to you,
Happy Birthday Steve Karp,
Happy Birthday to you!!!
Big 23!! on Monday the 5th!
Have a GREAT day!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave, good questions. Revelation 3:17 says, You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. They had become complacent. Complacency grows out of a false security that creates a lukewarm faith. Complacency can eventually destroy us. Proverbs 1:32, NIV, "For the waywardness of the simple will kill them, and the complacency of fools will destroy them." Pride had set in also. They had not fallen away from God but neither were they moving foward, searching for and obeying God.They had started out going down the narrow path, but at some point they stopped to rest and never had the desire to get going again. While you are on the narrow path and moving foward step by step you suddenly trip and fall, it is a sign that you are "on fire" for God when you get up, dust yourself off, reach out, take God's hand and take another step. Dave K.

I read and re-read and then read these last few postings again. Dawn I think I agree with your response the most. We cannot sit back and watch life go by and say well God do as you will. That is a cop out. We are told to go forth and teach and evangelize, to spread the word of the Lord. God answers prayers for example for 40 years they wandered in the desert with the manna from heaven to feed them, however they STILL HAD TO GET UP AND GO GATHER IT!!! It did not fall into their laps or mouths for them. God will provide, but you have to be willing to gather in those provisions. However we also should not attempt to give God a deadline and a schedule to keep. We can be pro-active without being controlling. In His Love, Dayna

Revelation 3:15-16
"I know your deeds, that you are niether cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I am about to vomit you out of my mouth". What emotions or thoughts does this passage provoke in you. Pastor has been teaching us about false converts. Was John addressing the false converts in the Church in Laodicea? What are the signs of a luke warm Christian? What are the signs of one who is hot or on fire for God? Blessings,Dave

While this statement makes for great discussion Steve, remember it is not biblical. It comes from an Aesop fable when the Wagoner got stuck and the more his horses pulled the deeper he got stuck until.."So the Wagoneer threw down his whip, and knelt down and prayed to Hercules the strong. 'O Hercules help me in this my hour of distress.' But Hercules apeared to him and said,'Man, don't sprawl there. Get up and put your shoulder to the wheel. The gods help them that helps themselves."
The gods spoken of are in greek mythology. By agreeing with this statement a person puts themselves ahead of the one True God and says look at me, give me the glory for what I have and what I do. Remember ALL things come from God. He is omnipotent(universal power and authority), omnipresent(everywhere all the time) and omniscient(having total knowledge of everything). Our God has such awesome power how could we ever think anything other than glorifying him could ever help us through this 'blink of an eye' we call life.
Paul's first letter to the Thessalonians answered all we can do....
"Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies. Test all things; hold fast what is good. Abstain from every form of evil.(I Thessalonians 5:16-22)

In many ways my own heart becomes so burdened with the things of the world, trying to help myself that I forget that He is in control. I fall far short of what He has commanded me to do and am in awe of how He forgives me.

Test all things with His word, the Bible, which is "God breathed".

"The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.Amen."(I Thessalonians 5:28) John

If a person is a Christian and says that God helps those who help themselves, I would hope that
this person wasn’t trying to help God help themselves. In other words they run the risk of getting
ahead of God’s plan. I agree that Jesus healed people after they or their friends made some sort of
an effort to come to Him but He also healed some that didn’t even know who He was.
  John 5: 11-13
11But he replied, "The man who made me well said to me, 'Pick up your mat and walk.' "
12So they asked him, "Who is this fellow who told you to pick it up and walk?"
13The man who was healed had no idea who it was, for Jesus had slipped away into the crowd
that was there.
If a person who isn’t a believer makes this same statement they might think that bettering
themselves or being a good person will win God’s favor.
 In either case the thinking behind such a statement is that if “good things” happen to you then you
 must be in God’s will. This is wrong on many levels. God’s will for us should be followed no
matter if we think it is “good” for us or not. Just a thought. Dave K.

I know for a fact that God specializes in helping those who can't help themselves. He has done it for me many times.



Jerry Johnston
Executive Pastor
Fraser Road Church of God
>
>
< replied-to message removed by QT >

I guess what I got from the verse is a lot like what I have read in other people's responses. God helps us if we seek Him. We are trying to help ourselves because we know that God can give us everything we need if we seek Him out with all our hearts. I agree there are a lot of unbelievers who seem to have everything they could wish for, but in the end they wont have the one thing we get to experience for eternity.
  I hope that makes sense :-)

Dawn Gillespie <drg@svsu.edu> wrote:
      Cecil, I agree with you, God helps those who can't help themselves.
  He is also looking for ACTIVE faith, scripture tells us that "faith pleases God." Sometimes, it's the faith of others (like the man lowered through the roof--WOW! that shows how important standing in the gap for others can be). I guess that would be very limiting to say that God ONLY helps those who help themselves. I do believe that many are missing out on the blessings of God because they are not putting action to their faith, as Michael pointed out (I will.....if....).
  The other thing is God doesn't need OUR help. Sometimes in our natural thinking, we want to help God out instead of wait for His promise.
  Depends on what the circumstance is for this statement! Is an action or non-action trying to be justified? Dawn

>>> QT - Steve Karp <qtopic+34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> 05/15/06 9:57 PM >>>




  
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. < replied-to message removed by QT >

Cecil, I agree with you, God helps those who can't help themselves.
He is also looking for ACTIVE faith, scripture tells us that "faith pleases God." Sometimes, it's the faith of others (like the man lowered through the roof--WOW! that shows how important standing in the gap for others can be). I guess that would be very limiting to say that God ONLY helps those who help themselves. I do believe that many are missing out on the blessings of God because they are not putting action to their faith, as Michael pointed out (I will.....if....).
The other thing is God doesn't need OUR help. Sometimes in our natural thinking, we want to help God out instead of wait for His promise.
Depends on what the circumstance is for this statement! Is an action or non-action trying to be justified? Dawn

>>> QT - Steve Karp <qtopic+34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> 05/15/06 9:57 PM >>>

< replied-to message removed by QT >

In James 2:14-26 he is talking about faith and deeds. Vs.17 says: " In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action is dead." This tells me that its not enough to just believe, ( even satan & his demons believe) but we must do something with that faith. There is a requirement on our part. Does this mean that God can't choose to bless someone who is not doing their part? I don't think so. Look at those all around us in the world that are unbelievers and seem to be blessed. They have riches, good health, happy families, this all comes from God above. But in the end what have they got to have gained the world only to have lost their souls? Blessings, Dave G.
-- QT - Steve Karp <qtopic+34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> wrote:


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Yes, when you reply by hitting the reply button on your email it automatically posts to the board and sends out to all the subscribers. :)
  Thanks for the input!

QT - Amanda Pawlicki <qtopic+34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> wrote:

  
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. < replied-to message removed by QT >

If you read in Proverbs, it seems that there is a rule that governs over us and it deals with not being lazy. There are many verses that describe what will become of a lazy man with lazy ways. I am not sure if God actually rewards us when we help ourselves, but it seems as helping ourselves keeps certain consequences from happening to us. Does this make sense?
Also...does this reply automatically get posted on the QT even though I replies through mail??




On 5/17/06, QT - Cecil Snyder <qtopic+34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> wrote:
>
>
< replied-to message removed by QT >

Steve.Not sure if I am right on this or not,but,in John 8 4-11 Is the scripture the Scribes&Pharisees brought the woman to Jesus. They wanted to stone her. It says nothing about her asking for help or forgivness. but God helped her. Then shame on me I dont know where the scripture is but there is the one about the men that lowered the man down from the roof so Jesus could heal him. Could this man have helped himself? One more that comes to mind is the man sitting asking for alms again shame on me but I do believe the one deciple was Peter the other I am not sure of. So I do believe there is circumstances where he does help one that don't or can't help them selves Cecil

hey steve,there is some truth to that statement. the Scripture that backs it up is every time you see the statement "If..................Then.............." God has certain requirements we must do before He wil intervine. Take for instance, if we truly want an outbreak of the Spirit we must take 2 Choronicles 7:14 and apply it to our life. Here God tells His people IF they will do these things (that is to "help themselves" then He will hear from Heaven and heal their land (hence God helping them). There are several Scriptures where God puts a requirement on something and if we will follow it and allow the Holy Spirit to help us, God will provide. Now I'm not sure if you could actually say "He helps those who help themselves" but that is what i believe. hope it is of some help steve. have a good one bud.


~Michael G. Ossana
 

From: QT - Steve Karp <qtopic+34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> Reply-To: QT topic 34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi <qtopic+34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> To: QT topic subscribers <qtopic+subs@quicktopic.com>
Subject: Christian Discussion
Date: 15 May 2006 18:57:19 -0700
>--QT------------------------------------------------------------- > Reply by email or visit > http://www.quicktopic.com/34/H/PSHP4ybEuAaGi/m51 >-------------------------------------------------------------- -- > >I have a question and would love some responses. I have been >discussing this statement with people I work with and different >people have different opinions: > >"God will only help those who help themselves" >_________________________________________________________________ >To unsubscribe: http://www.quicktopic.com/34/X/PSHP4ybEuAaGi >Start your own topic in 20 seconds: http://www.quicktopic.com |QT

I have a question and would love some responses. I have been discussing this statement with people I work with and different people have different opinions:

"God will only help those who help themselves"

Wow good question Dave. As things stand right at this moment I would be guilty. Also I would hope all my friends,neighbors,family.and extended family would tsetify for the prosecution If they were to witness for the defence They would be breaking one of Gods commandments THOU SHALL NOT LIE. Having said that I would like to add we are all human. There is only one perfect one There was a very good exampel of your question in Afghanistan a short time back. It was an Islamic man that converted to Christanity that is against the law in that country. He was in jail and the people wanded him to be put to death which that law calls for there.Thank the Good Lord our country went to bat for him and he was released and exiled from the country. This is a very good example of what I would hope I would do do. But then does any of us know what they would do in a situation untill we are put there. It is easy to say but when it comes down to it I pray to God that I would do the right thing.....Prais God and bless you Dave...............Cecil

Hey Amanda the question about "If God truly knows >everything that will ever be, how can we have free will? >Wouldn't He just decide everything we were going to do >beforehand?" I truly believe the only thing in the heavens above, this earth, andthe hell below taht the lord will not move is human will. No one can force me to accept christ or the bible. therefore he doesnt decide for us cause wehave that freedom. we chose to either be slaves to sin or free in Christ Jesus! the choice is ultimatly ours. besides Paul tells us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. if God was just going to decide for us why would Paul tell this to us? God does know everything, no doubt, but i truly believe with all of my heart that the gift has been available to all.......its just a matter if people will pick it up and run. See I believe God gives us that shaddow of a doubt, if i knew that after giving you a gift it would be thrown away, would that prevent me from giving you the gift still? Same concept, God knows not everyone who the gift is extended unto will recieve but he still gives the oppertunity for all to accept or deny. May the lord bless you with yourfriend in discussing and witnessing. Just member there is nothing wrong with simply saying There are just some things i dont understand. be blessed In His Grip
~Michael G. Ossana

 

From: QT - Amanda St. Martin <qtopic+34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> Reply-To: QT topic 34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi <qtopic+34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> To: QT topic subscribers <qtopic+subs@quicktopic.com>
Subject: Christian Discussion
Date: 11 May 2006 17:32:37 -0700
>--QT------------------------------------------------------------- > Reply by email or visit > http://www.quicktopic.com/34/H/PSHP4ybEuAaGi/m46 >-------------------------------------------------------------- -- > >Although I haven't been leaving posts, I've been reading the >discussions and it's very helpful, especially in the situations >I've been witnessing in lately. Thank you all for the strength >and advice! =) >I have some questions, too: I've been speaking with one friend >extensively about the LORD, but he continues to bring up a few >questions such as, "If I only have a limited life time, how can >I ever be worthy of eternal punishment?" and "If God truly knows >everything that will ever be, how can we have free will? >Wouldn't He just decide everything we were going to do >beforehand?" >I understand my answers to his questions, but relating the >spirit realm to someone immersed in the natural is...like trying >to explain how blue differs from red with someone who has been >blind all their life. >I've warned him of the dangers of expecting intellectual >fulfillment, yet I know that with work I can meet him on any >level. >Thanks! =) > >On 5/10/06, QuickTopic daily digest > wrote: > > >_________________________________________________________________ >To unsubscribe: http://www.quicktopic.com/34/X/PSHP4ybEuAaGi >Start your own topic in 20 seconds: http://www.quicktopic.com |QT

Amanda your questions have really hit home with me. While I also, as a Christian, ask these same questions I fall back on what C. S Lewis said in his book Mere Christianity....."Indeed, if we found that we could fully understand it, that very fact would show it was not what it professes to be---The inconceivable,the uncreated,the thing from beyond nature, striking down into nature like lighting. You may ask what good it will be to us if we do not understand it. But that is easily answered. A man can eat his dinner without understanding exactly how food nourishes him. A man can accept what Christ has done without knowing how it works: indeed, he would not know how it works until he has accepted it."

Here's praying each one of us could be arrested and found guilty of being a Christian and spreading the Word. John

that is quit an interesting thought dave...........i would hope that there would be enough evidence through others taht it wouldnt be a question id be guilty hands down. i desire so much to be a vessel that others see Christ through me....obviously i am nor shall ever be perfect but i do desire the Holy Spirit to purge me thourghly through the fire so that i can be one that would be guilty as charged for being a true Jesus Freak!


~Michael G. Ossana
 

From: QT - Dave Gillespie <qtopic+34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> Reply-To: QT topic 34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi <qtopic+34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> To: QT topic subscribers <qtopic+subs@quicktopic.com>
Subject: Christian Discussion
Date: 11 May 2006 11:38:27 -0700
>--QT------------------------------------------------------------- > Reply by email or visit > http://www.quicktopic.com/34/H/PSHP4ybEuAaGi/m44 >-------------------------------------------------------------- -- > >Here is a thought provoking question for us to ponder. If you >were arrested today for being a Christion would there be enough >evidence to find you guilty? Would your neighbors, coworkers, >family and friends be a witness for the prosecution or the >defense? Would it be an open and shut case or would it have to >be deliberated by a jury? Share your thoughts. Blessings,Dave G. >_________________________________________________________________ >To unsubscribe: http://www.quicktopic.com/34/X/PSHP4ybEuAaGi >Start your own topic in 20 seconds: http://www.quicktopic.com |QT

Although I haven't been leaving posts, I've been reading the
discussions and it's very helpful, especially in the situations I've been witnessing in lately. Thank you all for the strength and advice! =)
I have some questions, too: I've been speaking with one friend
extensively about the LORD, but he continues to bring up a few
questions such as, "If I only have a limited life time, how can I ever be worthy of eternal punishment?" and "If God truly knows everything that will ever be, how can we have free will? Wouldn't He just decide everything we were going to do beforehand?"
I understand my answers to his questions, but relating the spirit realm to someone immersed in the natural is...like trying to explain how blue differs from red with someone who has been blind all their life.
I've warned him of the dangers of expecting intellectual fulfillment, yet I know that with work I can meet him on any level.
Thanks! =)

On 5/10/06, QuickTopic daily digest
<qtopic+34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> wrote:
>
< replied-to message removed by QT >

I think every "Christian" wishes that it would be an open and shut case but that just isn't true most of the time. I know for me, I want it so badly to be an open and shut case and I will strive for that everyday I am on this earth.

If you think of major court cases, you will probably think of people on trial for something they did, rather than something they said. Murder, rape, homicide, stolen car, assault and battery, ect... are all things that someone has done, an action, rather than something they said.

What we do defines us so much more than what we say. We can praise God on Sunday and be following Satan on Monday. Just because you speak it doesn't mean you live it. My actions are so important because of what I say. People don't like hipicrites and if I share my love for Christ with them and yet are no different than them in their actions, I won't reach anyone.

Then think about the ultimate court case on the day of judgement where our all knowing God will sit on the holy throne and satan will be the prosecuting attorney. But there is Jesus, our defense attorney. Thank God that He has already paid the price for me. Without Jesus next to me on my defense, I will be left by myself to confess everything to God, and I will lose the ultimate case, the court case for eternity.


"God commended His love toward us, in that while
we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

Here is a thought provoking question for us to ponder. If you were arrested today for being a Christion would there be enough evidence to find you guilty? Would your neighbors, coworkers, family and friends be a witness for the prosecution or the defense? Would it be an open and shut case or would it have to be deliberated by a jury? Share your thoughts. Blessings,Dave G.

Good question Cecil ! A recent Bible study in our men's group gave me some insight into this question. I hope it will help. First I had to ask myself; what displeases God? Disobedience was the obvious one that came to mind. Romans 5:19 - For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many were made righteous. The very first act of disobedience was displeasing to God and according to His word was sin. There are many types of sin that are obvious to most, and we know they will displease our God. Sins of the flesh: adultery, fornication, drunkenness. Sins of the spirit: pride, envy, selfishness.Sins of disposition: anger, bitterness, hostility. These are called sins of commission,doing the things we know not to do. ( Paul speaks about this) James 4:17- Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins. The sin of failing to do what we ought to, this is the sin of omission, and is just as displeasing to God. The Bible is full of the things we ought to do: take care of the widows and orphans, feed the hungry, love our enemies, go make disciples. I believe that any time we live below the standards God has set for us to live by, we are displeasing to Him, and therefor are in sin. To sin is natural, to not sin is supernatural. We can only be supernatural through the power of Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit living in us. How often we choose to yield to the Holy Spirit and live in His power is how often we can live above sin. Blessings, Dave G. -- QT - Cecil Snyder <qtopic+34-PSHP4ybEuAaGi@quicktopic.com> wrote:



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< replied-to message removed by QT >

Hey Fraser Road........I was just telling Cheryl what a great outreach this site is. I've sure missed these "spirited" conversations during your in touch groups. This could be a great place to tell seekers of the truth about our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, while "As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." (Proverbs 27:17)

To you, Big Daddy Dave Karp, I don't think we are so very far apart in our interpretation of this passage. The point that I was trying to make is the danger we face as Christians in what Dawn called pride. Once we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior we have something that the unbelievers don't have. This being said, and I'm sorry Dawn, but we are only human, our tendency becomes isolation from non-Christians. Our isolation could cause us to miss opportunities to minister to non-believers . As each one of us seek to further our Walks I feel we need to be mindful of what Jesus said (John 14:12)"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."
I agree that people are sometimes afraid to seek the truth and there is a real danger in keeping things hidden and I truly thank Dave for asking these tough questions. This will help all who read this seek the truth in the light.(I John 1:5)"This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all."

To Pastor Dawn.......I also agree with you when you say we can live above the sin nature because Christ lives in us. (Romans 6:14-15) "For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.15 What than? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not." This tells me that we are living above sin as believers but forgiven also. Forgiven when prompted by the Holy Spirit to as you say "repent when the Holy Spirit reveals a short coming".
As for your question about the Samaritan woman and why would Jesus ask her to go and sin no more if it were not possible I believe that He knew it was impossible but He new that by Grace she could be righteous.

I love this stuff and will continue to hold you all up in prayer. Cecil, I'll be back for that question later. John

After reading the discussions,they are very interesting, I have a question I would see dicussed. That is is there a difference between commiting a sin and displeasing God. If you displease God is it the same as a sin? If the two are different where is the line drawn? Cecil

Hey John,
That's so interesting that you responded to this question. Nobody responded via email when Dave asked this question in March. It's a tough one!
I find it very interesting that the scripture you used 1 John 1:8-10 comes from the same book that Dave gave his scripture reference 1 John 3:9. They are almost contradictory if you do not know the motivation behind John's writing.
It got me thinking, so I did some research last night. This is what I gathered...As you and Dave Karp mentioned, John was addressing the doctrines of false teachers. They were teaching Gnosticism: they believed that man obtained salvation by mental enlightenment, which came only to the elite spiritual initiates, not the ordinary Christian. They believed that matter was evil and spirit essentially was good and that the true God could never indwell in the material body of flesh and blood. (This of which is totally contrary to scripture and negates the existence of Jesus Christ.) They believed that nothing the body could do could affect the inner spirit---therefore they could have no sin.
John's letters were addressing this heresy and confirming faith of true believers. This is why in 1 John 1:8-10 John restates scripture that ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. As far back as the Ten Commandments scripture tells us that we are sinners, born of the sin nature. But then in 1 John 3:9 "Those who have been born into God's family do not sin, because God's life is in them. So they can't keep on sinning, because they have been born of God." John reiterates the purpose of Christ's life, death, and resurrection. God told us to "Be Holy as I am Holy", Christ told the woman at the well "Go, and sin no more." Why would He command this if it were not possible? Those born into God's family do not have the desire to sin (purposeful and willful sin). Does that mean we will never commit sin again? You and I can verify that is not true. But if we abide in His word, where all truth lies, then the Holy Spirit will convict of sin, direct our every step, help us keep our tongue, show us where we are erring, etc.
Can we live above sin--not without the power of the Holy Spirit. Is our goal in life to please God? If so, we will (choose) not to sin out of love and respect for our God. Christ gave power over sin and death. If we can't live above the power of sin (perpetual sin)--then we are not living in the power that Christ died to give.
We as humans have to be careful not to use the "we're just humans" to justify our actions. We've been given all the power we need to live pleasing to God--it's up to us to abide in that truth continually and repent when the Holy Spirit reveals a short coming. I believe we can live above the sin nature because Christ lives in us. I'm hoping that as I grow stronger in His truth that those sins of disobedience (not the sin nature) will become less and less, because I want to please my Father!
John, how would me living without sin glorify me? Living without sin is only due to the work of the Holy Spirit in me. Only if I were to flaunt it, which means I'm not living above sin (pride).
Hey, lets have more of these discussions. You still have the gift of bringing up interesting topics!! ;-D
Bless you!
Dawn

Hi John, Glad to see your still out there. I would like to respond to your e-mail. You are 100%
correct that the Bible was written to glorify God and not man. I have to disagree with you about
the rest of your statement. I know that I cannot live my life without sinning by myself. I also
know that the Holy Spirit that lives in me can never sin. When I was “born of God” He forgave
me and accepted me. My outlook changed because I have a mind that is renewed day by day by
the Holy Spirit. “They can’t keep on sinning” means that true believers do not make a practice of
sinning. All believers still sin, but they are working to gain victory over sin. In order to do this
we need to seek the power of the Holy Spirit, stay away from tempting situations and seek the
help of the body of Christ—so they can hold us accountable and pray for us. It is very, very
important for me to know that I can strive to live above sin in order to give glory to God. In 1
John 1:8-10, John was attacking the claims of the false teachers that people had no natural
tendency toward sin. They were even encouraging sin among believers. He knew that this was
wrong but he also knew that we must do our best to listen to the Holy Spirit and work hard at
becoming more like Christ. I am grateful that Dave asked this question. Too many times people
are intimidated, and will not seek the truth. We talked about this question at 2 of our cell group
meetings recently. God has used these men to reveal Himself to me more than once. They hold
me accountable and pray for me. I hope to here from you again John. Dave Karp

Hi Fraser Road Church of God, hope you don't mind if I join in the discussion. As I understand, I John was written as an open letter to his "dear children" to encourage the Church to fight sin, love others, and beleive in the true Jesus during a time of false teachers promoting false views of the incarnation of Christ. In the book you found this you'll also find ( I John 1:8-1:10) " If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we "make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." It is possible for true believers to live above sin but we are all sinners. For that reason Jesus Christ died. I believe there is danger in a Christian believing he can live above sin because in that mindset he is giving glory to himself and not to God. The bible was written to glorify God not man.

"Those who have been born into God's family do not sin, because God's life is in them. So they can't keep on sinning, because they have been born of God." (I John 3:9)

Is it possible for believers to live above sin?

What does the Bible have to say about this?

Anxious to hear your response. Dave G

Please note: forwarded message attached



>>> "Myrrh" <murks@myrrh.org> 03/24/06 1:13 PM >>>
 Dear Friends and Prayer Warriors, As many of you know, we just returned home from a fourteen day trip to the Hawaiian Islands (and no, we\re not trying to rub it in), because although an absolutely beautiful place to visit, there is an incredible spiritual battle taking place for Lordship in the islands. In addition to a television taping, we gave seven concerts on the island of Kauai. We originally had four concerts scheduled, but after the first weekend, we received calls from several churches asking us to ]fit them in^ sometime while we were there. So our schedule ended up being much fuller than originally planned, but the Lord certainly blessed our efforts. We ended up receiving permission to do a concert at the island prison; however, a few days before the scheduled concert, the Warden decided to revoke permission. But we all felt that was just an attack from the enemy, so we gathered with some of the church elders and prayed for God\s favor. Sure enough, the Warden rescinded his earlier refusal and not only allowed the concert to take place as originally planned, but also extended permission for the women to attend (typically men and women are only allowed to have separate events). Most of the convicts were in on misdemeanor drug trafficking/possession, but we could see the hardness etched in their faces and several of them were openly lewd. But as the concert progressed, we could see that hardness beginning to melt, until the end of the concert when nearly everyone came forward for prayer ` many openly weeping. Several men and women gave their lives to Christ and are committed to joining the prison Bible study for to grow in their new faith. Praise God that His word never returns void! Each of our other meetings were equally powerful, with people reporting radical changes taking place in their lives as a result of the message God has given us to share. God is definitely still in the business of restoring relationships and giving hope to the hopeless. In fact, the weekend before we left, two men came up after the concert and said that they had already filed for divorce and were living in sin, but that during the concert God convicted them that they needed to repent and work to save their marriages. At the same service a woman with a rare disease (that, among other things, ate her fingernails) came forward to say that while we were singing she felt a warmth spread all over her body and she looked down at her hands and literally saw the nails growing back ` perfectly healthy - and by the end of the service her hands were completely restored! These are just some of the incredible things that God is doing. But you know as well as we do that when God moves satan doesn\t like it. As you know, we\re getting ready to release a new CD ` Dreams. And we feel that God wants to use this CD to open up new opportunities for ministry such as we\ve never experienced before. And that\s where you come in. We are completely dependent on the prayer support of you and ask that you continue to pray for God\s protection and divine direction. We will keep you updated as to our schedule, prayer requests, and new releases, but most importantly, know that we will be joining with you in storming the gates of heaven through intercessory prayer. Then He said to His disciples, "The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. "Therefore beseech the Lord of the harvest to send out workers into His harvest." Matthew 9:37-38 Praising God for your prayers,


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looking forward to the great discussions

I think small groups are going to be very important. Could it be that those who have been in one will be the ones starting them. They have the experience God is looking for. I also think our Wednesday Eveing is going to be very important. I think it should be free standing (come with no agenda)people need to share, experience is the best teacher. A topic could be picked from the sharing. People need to know that there not the only ones going through things, they need to know they have support with us, and just hearing themselves telling it will help to heal. I feel we need to start some kind of outreach, but at this time I don't know just what, through prayer and discussion in time God will reveal that to us, and it may even come from the youth.

OOPS...Forgot to give the link of the article I was talking about. http://www.voiceofevangelism.org/specialmessagefromperry.cfm

Although we have reached the "Official" end of the 40 day fast & praying, I believe we MUST keep this as part of our spiritual discipline. The following article is very helpful and full of scripture on fasting. I think the part that struck me the most is that Jesus said "When you fast..." assuming that we would. It isn't a commandment, but he does assume it will be part of our spiritual life, just like praying. Obviously there may be some health issues that prevent some people from being able to fast. Just remember Jesus knows your heart. God Bless.

Ed, Thanks for the note. I am led by the Lord to extend to you an invitation to join in with our discussions about the Lord Jesus. I don't think it was an accident that you "stumbled" across this site. We need to take advantage of the small blessings that He does in our lives.

I was checking out your site, when I stumbled accross this web chat. (Pastor Rick spoke at our camp (Wesley Acres) this past summer.)At any rate, this is a great way to communicate from ant distance and on many topics. I hope you make good use of it.
Blessings,