We did buy a house for the 'church' to meet in. We bought a big house and all the rooms are dedicated to the spiritual formation of the community of faith that meets here. Several reasons for the change of venue ... we are team led, many of the team being women MDIV's and we're more comfortable with a house and all of it's nuances. Many of the core are well-churched people who totally believe in OA's, but just didn't see our OA conversations ever comfortably leading to inviting our neighbors to 'a building', but to a home for dinner and coffee and conversation ... sure. We also wanted a change from pew and platform to an atmosphere that welcomes relationships. We do no 'marketing', just invites from our OA's. So, we purposefully want to grow slow. Our $ investment in birthing this community is much more wisely invested in property that a few of the core partners co-own. We're automatically 'in a neighborhood' for a relational sphere of influence there ... our backyard is to a public high school! Our 'leadership' models are focused on household language, not business so much. We've met in our Generations Quest house since August ... we're newborn! The house is open for conversation, prayer, study and gatherings as our community needs. You can see a picture of our GQ House at generationsquest.org.
Thanks for asking, Jim.

Thanks Sherri for the link and the description. All I can is Wow. I love your creativity!

Ellina, you wrote,
"The answer for me is simply the framework of my day, which includes a lot of time alone with God, in the company of Christ, trying to be in the way of the Holy Spirit - trying to be in a place where the spirit of God will fall...If I didn't have this discipline I believe I would also feel very empty and dissatisfied."
 

Many of the people I wrote about in my article have a deep friendship with Jesus and spend time with Him consistently. Yet their feeling of discontentment remains, not with following Jesus, but rather with the expression of Him, or "clumsy expression" as you put it.

Can people who have an intimate relationship with God experience discontentment in spite of a prayerful life?

Thank you, Pam, for your honesty. Perhaps a paradigm shift is in order. In today's Christian world we view dissatisfaction and discontent as feelings to be avoided. Perhaps they are the Holy Spirit stirring us to move from our complacency and respond to Him. Uncomfortable, yes, especially when we don't know how we are to respond. Maybe the "how" doesn't matter as much as the willingness to do so. I believe there is a movement of the spirit within church communities doing just this. For me, I have had to make the decision to let my life become less "manageable", to look less like I expect the christian life to look. It's as if a bus has pulled up, the door has opens and Jesus is the driver. He asks if I want to get on. I ask where He's going and He repeats his question in response. The sign on the front of the bus doesn't indicate a destination. But I've decided to get on. I don't know where I'm going, I don't know the route. I do know the driver and that makes all the difference. I hope we can all continue to ask the hard questions, to resist the pat answers and to refuse to join in with the status quo. Discontent is not the worst thing in the world.In fact, it's a pretty good motivator.

Interesting how something as simple as a thread in a Christian blog-type setting can stir what is just out of the reach of full awareness. Be it discontent or itchiness or whatever, it is that something that has not found rest. I am such a Christian. I long for something in/from the church. I cannot stay settled in “church” environments. I continue to pursue, but never find.

I am a candidate for a spiritual makeover, it appears.

I find myself keeping things with an organized label at arms length. I so want to see the Holy Spirit lead. I stand at the outer edge of the Body looking in for possible answers. I am reluctant to go in new directions and very carefully evaluate them all for potential error or problems. I have done considerable reading about the Emerging Church and am intrigued yet cautious. I am observing from a distance even while sensing a pull, an attraction that just may lead me to other restless, seeking souls.

For many decades I have been doing church in many ways – Bible teacher, pastor, missionary. Despite the professional Christian credentials and extensive experiences, I am still searching – still not quite satisfied. I have recently been looking at home churches anew, but my limited experiences with these does not encourage me to move closer at this point.

I know my way is found in the Holy One who is the Way. I know the answer is not in “people groupings”, whatever the organizational make up. I need to press into Jesus more. My answer is in Him alone. Once I do this, the rest will follow.

Thank you one and all for sharing your thoughts and your hearts – they are comforting and rich food for meditation. Perhaps you will allow me to walk part of my pilgrimage with you.

Thank you for your thoughtful and heart-felt reflections Pam. Indeed, it is unsettling to walk away from a church service and still feel spiritually hungry. Yes, that hunger can be satisfied through a personal and intimate relationship with the Triune God, yet there is sadness that a fuller feast cannot be enjoyed by the larger community. Granted, there are many people who are fed and nourished in our churches. Yet, my sense is that there are a growing number of people who yearn for more beyond the nicely packaged programs and seek a greater authenticity and vulnerability.

I stumbled on this website this morning, and am thankful for the refreshing dialogue started by your posting. I prayed earlier this morning for clarity on what God is calling our church to be about. You see, we are selling our church which was started in 1957. Over the years, it had become increasingly irrelevant to the larger community which I believe Christ had intended that we serve and had become an inward focused club rather than a community centered in Christ. So our decision was to become a "church without walls" -- a community of faith rather than a community anchored in a building. We are just settling the final details of our sale, and now are embarking on an "abiding time" -- abiding in Christ for a couple of months to discern God's call to us and vision for us. So the conversation you started ... and all of the responses you have received ... I believe to be a partial response to our ongoing prayer for discernment and clarity as we abide in Christ. Thank you.

I like the way you said it Barb:

"In today's Christian world we view dissatisfaction and discontent as feelings to be avoided. Perhaps they are the Holy Spirit stirring us to move from our complacency and respond to Him."

I wonder if this describes tension. Certainly tension, like say, the tension of a wineskin tearing, might feel negative and uncomfortable. Thanks for articulating this Barb.

Bob M. it's nice to meet you. Thank you for your transparency. We need more of that.

You said,
"I am observing from a distance even while sensing a pull, an attraction that just may lead me to other restless, seeking souls."

Can you pinpoint when you began to sense this pulling? Did something trigger your restlessness? I cannot pinpoint my own.

Eileen, {{hug}} , it is humbling to know you found us at a very significant time in your life. Yes, you are not the only one. When your name comes to mind I will agree in prayer for you to have the discernment and clarity you need for what God is calling you to go forward in. These are interesting times to be the church, aren't they?

I think the reason for this dissimulation is the time we are living in. God is drawing His people to Himself. He will no longer share them with the worldly infuences(and they are in the church).
I am seeing this seperation happening all over the world. The wicked are becoming more wicked and the Holy are seeking a greater closness with the Most Holy. This is just another sign that the end is near. Look up, my brother and sisters,your redemption draweth nigh.

Pam-
You have shared many of my own feelings, and as I read through the posts I've heard a common thread through most of them - the discontentment with the status quo as determined by the current church culture. Eileen said, "...there are a growing number of people who yearn for more beyond the nicely packaged programs and seek a greater authenticity and vulnerability." I believe that much of what people are feeling stems from growing more mature in God's Word, and in the process they have found out that God's Word and cultural christianity don't line up. One of them has to give way to the other, so the choice becomes, "go with the flow (figuratively and maybe literally - as I have heard from leadership about not creating a flow within a flow)" or following the spirit of God in a much more organic, wholistic way.
Pam, you asked Bob when he began to sense this pulling; while I cannot speak for Bob, I can tell you my own experience. I grew up in the church (same charismatic/Word of Faith church now for 26 yrs.) yet I'm still fairly young (32). And for a long time I've known that God's plan for me wasn't full time "ministry" as we currently know it, but there was a shift coming to how church is done, a shift that doesn't compromise message or sacrifice principles, but is done in a way that allows for today's world culture to relate to it (sorry, it's hard to describe something you've only glimpsed in your spirit): and somehow I would be involved in it. Perhaps current church leadership isn't aware of the shift coming or maybe that God's plan doesn't include them (I won't speak against leadership, that's a sure-fire way to disqualify yourself). Somehow what is resonating in myself and others is not resonating the same way with the church leadership I am familiar with, but to try to communicate it is like speaking another language, or worse, being viewed as a rebel. My discontent really excellerated when I began much more earnestly seeking God. As a result of my pursuit I've become increasingly concerned that my everyday life had a form of godliness but denied it's power. In seeing it in myself I've seen it all over the church. The church has become a hangout for corporate christians more concerned about it's own self interests than a community gathering place. We are a company that only hires those that fit the corporate image and will contribute to the bottom line, instead of a fellowship revolving around a relationship with Christ. One day soon that will change. It won't involve watering down the message, but it will mean getting out of the way while people who don't fit the right mold come to Jesus and allow Him to change them. We can be holy AND have relationships with currently non-christian people. We can live open lives that show God is working on us and still share our Saviour.
Here's what I seek in the church... leaders that live godly lives out in the open but don't hide their shortfalls, fellow believers who want intimacy with God, and an open fellowship that allows people to touch Jesus.
There is a dissatisfaction and the Holy Spirit is moving because the end is here.

Brethren:

As the thread grows it becomes clearer. We are at a familiar crossroads. A crossroads that has appeared many times over countless centuries. Let me explain:

God’s people move in cycles as does much of His Creation. Today, many are sensing a low point. This, as it always does, gives way to a crying out to God. He will answer, we will rejoice, and, in time, we will tire of His answer – the ”new thing” - and take it for granted. It will de-grade into programs, methods and liturgies that will impact us less and less until we reach point where we are again dissatisfied. This is very similar to the pattern found in Judges. God’s people were dissatisfied, they cried out to Him, He delivered them and they rejoiced, and settled into their newfound relationship with Him. After some time they become dissatisfied again, slowly moved away from His Way, and eventually drifted into dissatisfaction and again cried out to Him. Sound familiar?

And this happens over and over in the Church How and why do we let it? Simple. We are hu-man. Each moving of God sets up the potential for a new, joyous relationship with God. When we hear His ground rules we readily agree only to slowly add our input for continuing this new found joy. WE get into the mix while He simply wants us to “Seek me with our whole heart….”. We want something more intricate – a something we can “do” – a way we can develop things, lead the parade, and be more than a needy sinner. The corporate Christian takes over, the curricu-lum writer decides what we need, the songwriter embellishes God’s simplicity, the pastor decides to lead instead of follow, congregants cry for human leadership rather than a vibrant, growing, personal relationship with their Creator.

Today, many are sensing spiritual unrest – this truly seems to be Holy Spirit led. We need to al-low Him to scratch the itch, guide our search, formulate the direction. The OT reveals the con-cept of remnant, and so there will be a drawing together of today’s searchers. As we identify one another we need to be careful not to systematize and organize ourselves into another formally identified entity. Need and common purpose produce a fellowship of the needy, which, in time, can morph into an organization, a movement, and a denomination – all with their formalized leadership, membership, constitution, headquarters, conventions, and books, tapes and CDs.

Perhaps we can learn from the most positive example of how God moved the Church in China during the past 50+ years. Forced by circumstances to remain in a form that defied the traditions of the very groups that brought them Christianity, they grew in the shadows, prospered without formal organizational ties, and were forced to depend on the Holy Spirit for direction, leadership, teaching, and finances. They truly are a witness to dependence on God alone.

Pam

I don't know about you but all of this is drifting into a a little too much religion for me - I think we need to put this one to bed. Thanks for all who shared and lets move on

Jim

Jim - why do you say this thread is becoming a little too religious for you? The point of the article was how church has become religious (a culture unto itself) and left Pam wanting more. The point currently being made in the thread is that man creates religion, but most "seekers" (truly a remnant) really just want to know and experience God, and they want to know HOW. If you want to alway seek and never find, go ahead, but don't seek God then, seek someone else because God made it clear that if you seek you will find, if you seek with all your heart.
That said, if the thread is dead that's fine too. Whatever.

Hi, Pam,
I've met you at the Seattle Conference. I want to ask for your permission to translate your article into Chinese. I used to work in the TV production and I am a professional translator.
May I? You are a good writer. Keep at it.
Esther

Hi Esther, Yes, I remember meeting you, too! I had hoped to talk with you some more about Hong Kong. I lived there for years, met my husband there and had my wedding there (he's American).

I am honored by your request. Thank you for your kind words. I have some questions for you and need to have a private email conversation with you. Email me at jamnperry@comcast.net

I look forward to hearing from you Esther.

Jim, I am puzzled by your request to move on. What would that look like to you?

Everybody, I have greatly appreciated your contributions to this conversation. It's been affirming to know I am not alone in my thoughts and struggles. I am encouraged to perceive this struggle as the Holy Spirit drawing seekers closer to God and equally respectful of the admonition to not fall into the same organizational traps we are currently challenging. I hope we can move forward in seeking God with humility, knowing we will never become the perfect leaders we seek.

I agree with suziegjo

Wow, awesome article. The disillusionment is real and as a leader who is praying through the blue print of how church should be, this has been a source of deep agonizing prayer for me since I planted one 5 years ago. Disillusionment is the unraveling of the illusion of what we have called "Church".
It is time to "stop doing church and instead be the church."
We are currently experimenting on what Acts 2:42-47 ;4:32-34 in very practical ways and the bottom line for us is that it really bites in a serious way to pay the price to be the church but I see no other option do you? Love to have some specific things that you folks seeing in your groups.