Edited by author 11-02-2005 10:52 AM
The Church needs to "emmanualize" the concept of God. Christ still lives and reigns in the world today. The Church is still relevant in today's culture.

I'm part of a community of faith that decided to buy a house and meet there. No pews, no platforms, a meal together with lots of coffee and conversation, shared teaching and exploring various worship paradigms together. Different rooms are there for different types of discussions. We're not a house church ... but a community of faith who meets in a large house that was boughtjust for gathering and journeying together in our spiritual adventure with God. It's a great atmosphere to invite people to ... like inviting someone to 'your home.' Imagine 'leadership meetings' in a kitchen, around a table ... we call ourselves ministry partners, all being equally called to serve one another. We're risking being 'church' in something other than the institutional building. We've birthed something fresh and maybe this will help others to re-imagine 'church.'

Pam's closing thought is that "'it' is time to stop doing church an start being church". Personally I think she had the answer in her statement of "having a hunger for Jesus". "Off the Map" is a ministry to the lost, and what I am discovering is that I wonder if anyone in the church has ever been lost. If we have never been bankrupt in spirit, or as Jesus says, "Poor in Spirit" we cannot have a hunger for Him. It is impoosible for us to "fellowship in His sufferings" (Phil. 3:10) until we have experienced being found. "In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding" (Eph. 1:7&8).

My question is, "Does the church in our culture know Christ and His saving grace"? Without knowing Him and His saving grace as a result of being lost there cannot be a community of Christ.

We must be delighted to be His child, and understand that our heavenly Father and His Son Jesus are the Lord of the universe, if that makes sense. Without that, of course the church will feel empty.

Edited by author 11-02-2005 01:11 PM
Sheri

Where is your community of faith located?
What prompted you to make this modification?
Why did you think it was necessary to buy a house just for this purpose (or am I reading it correctly)?
How long have you been gathering using this approach?
Tell us more...

i have wrestled with the 'empty church' syndrome since high school (early '70s). for me, my railings against the shortcomings of others usually meant the problem was actually with me. my recent experience has been that when i get outside the church walls and its sanctioned activities, and make an effort to love God and serve people in tangible ways, i am filled in ways a church service cannot touch. perhaps our service outside the church can inform and reshape how we 'do church' when we get together as a group.

Here is what we (in my church community) are seeing. Too many programs are pushing the Spirit out the door. People are coming into the church and almost "expected" to start serving. Those of us lay people who lead ministries are subjected to leadership seminars, but the same staff who stand up and teach us one thing are acting another. Some of the "volunteer" concerns I have heard express feelings of just being used for our "gifts" and our DISC. No real focus on Jesus, God, or the Holy Spirit unless it is a casual reference.
There are good people who come to this church, who are searching for a relationship with Him, but they are settling for just the busywork of the church.
My small group has discussed this, and we have come to the conclusion that churches feel empty because there is a lack of love.
It is the relational aspect of Christianity that is missing - relationship with each other, and relationship with God. Service is part of the journey, but not the sole path.

"I was startled to discover that the center of my life had been church and ministry instead of Jesus. My relationship with Him and with others had become systemized, based on programs and church-navigated activities. In short, (I had become in bondage to – awkward) the religious culture of church." I couldn't say it any better. My husband and I are now wrestling of where to go from here. We both grew up in very traditional churches and have only known that version of christianity. Now with this new revelation we are trying to navigate a new path toward Christ. Thanks for the article---now I know I am not the only one!!!

I'm so excited to see this topic up here! I've been thinking tons about why we do this Sunday "event/service/gathering" in light of a church that I'm helping gather together here in the Cincinnati area. Recently there was an article that appeared in the paper here about a mega church where the head guy said that he would do anything short of sin to get someone to come to church and it sparked the question in my brain of "why?" So what do you guys think this disucssion means in light of the values that we should embody on Sunday mornings/evenings or whenever we gather together and what are some ways that we can practically express them?

Isn't church empty because in a hundred different ways we're empty?

Pam's experience with her "homegroup" plays out in homegroups everywhere. And even though I wasn't there, I beg to differ with her analysis of their meeting. It was a gripe session neatly disguised as a time of "giving voice to the disillusionment we find ourselves in." Why is it so hard for us to call it what it is?

Plus, without the church Pam attends facilitating smaller groups (i.e. Jesus Communities) how would she have ever ended up in the homegroup she describes? Off-the-Map should flex a little more editorial muscle before pushing this crap on us.

Good topic, I am so glad off the map had the courage to post this aricle. It takes more courage to leave the church than stay in it every sunday. when I stop going to a building my eyes really opened up. I go a 12 step group now that is my "church" for now. I used to go to various church buildings my whole life (not counting a few years in the wilderness). Being in a 12 step group helped me realize that I banty around phrases like "child of God" etc when at the core of my being I realized I didn't believe God loved me- that is why I did so much "church" stuff to prove to myself how good I was. It is all nonsense for me - I was self righteous and didn't know it. I stopped going to "church" mostly because I wanted to spend more time with my family and my wife was in college so we had to cut something out of our schedule.
I feel more whole / at peace with God and myself not going to church than rushing around doing a bunch of church stuff that only frustrates my kids and wife because we aren't spending time together.

At some point we need to find a group of believers that we can be a church together, out side of the programs and nonsense.... we haven't found that community yet.

Why does this topic trigger so much heat?

Why do we feel so deeply and passionately about this issue?

Are these comments truly representative of a larger malaise or are we just an island to ourselves?

I agree with Tyler. I live in China in a city with cultural diversity, but what i refered to as 'Jesus culture' is doing what Jesus did and more. The 'Jesus culture' is in your everyday life, befriending, praying for those who are sick, letting people know that there is a saviour who loves them and there is eternal life! It should be a natural part of who we are in our everyday lives. I think when we take leaps of faith and act on what we read about in the Bible, life isn't empty any more, it becomes very exciting. I am speaking from experience.
Loved the article Pam.

I must say that I agree with Pam. I have been involved with many ministries from the extreme home churches, street preachers and Sunday services. Thru it all I really just wanted a real relationship with Jesus. My story is similar to Pam's, God took me out of everything - every ministry - to teach me 'how to love Him', I protested the Lord when He spoke this to me and I said 'but Lord I do love You' and He responded 'I know you do, now I'm going to teach you how to'...this so much reflected my heart - that I did love serving God more than loving and being with Him. Now my life is radically different and God is teaching me what is important to Him - to love Him with all our hearts, soul, mind and strength! I believe that God is doing something among His people, that HE is stirring the passion in us for more of Him... I hear it so often. I too have had many similar conversations with people who soooo love God. What this will all look like in the end none of us know but it up to us to listen to the voice of God and to the best of our ability discern His voice and obey no matter what we think or how we feel. Somebody that I esteem highly in her walk with Jesus says all the time that we need to be 'laid down lovers of God'....is that a good saying or is that the way we live our lives...how would things look if we live what we spoke? Thanks Pam for sharing your heart with us!

Thanks, Pam, for the insight. I totally agree. About 11 years ago, I earnestly began to seek the Lord for wisdom regarding answers to the question, "What is church, really?" Within 2 months, I began to feel a conviction that "what" was the wrong question - "who" must be the question. From there, He has taken me to a point where I believe 2 basic things about the church:

:: God values being the church (loving God and loving people) and doing life together.

:: Culture is not looking to add another segment to their life. That is why "coming to church" or "inviting people to church" is not connecting. It is not even a Biblical concept. Of the over 140 times that "church" is referred to in the NT, not one is about places or things or events. They are all about people. Culture may again embrace "church" when they understand it to be a "be" and not a "do" and that it is not a segment but the totality of a beyond-self life.

Our church family is all about this. Please check out our website: www.westpointchurch.org

Thanks for the newsletter.

(walks in, throws another log on the fire, curls up on the sofa with a lovely cup of tea)

Wow, Jim, you sure have a lot of visitors over tonight!

Thanks to all for taking time to read my article and then respond. It is interesting to listen to each person's perspective.

Why is this such a hot topic? Is there a genuine move of the Holy Spirit across the body of Christ stirring up a sort of holy discontentment? Is God the one provoking us?

I certainly hope so.

Pam, as I read your article I sensed the deep hunger for Jesus, and asked myself how it is I can be absorbed totally in church and ministry training, and yet not feel this sense of emptiness. The answer for me is simply the framework of my day, which includes a lot of time alone with God, in the company of Christ, trying to be in the way of the Holy Spirit - trying to be in a place where the spirit of God will fall. I'm a Franciscan sister, and even though I live in my own home and am a single mum still raising two younger children, my day has this solid base. So when I experience the church it is from this foundation, and I feel able to relate to it - to its clumsy expression of Christ on earth. If I didn't have this discipline I believe I would also feel very empty and dissatisfied.
http://franciscansalvationist.blogspot.com
Ellina Rosen