QuickTopic (SM) free message boards QuickTopic (SM) free message boards
Skip to Messages
  Sign In to access your topic list  |New Topic |My Topics|Profile
Upgrade to Pro   Customize, show pictures, add an intro, and more:   QuickTopic Pro...and check out QuickThreadSM
Topic: Katrina
Views: 5808, Unique: 1799 
Subscribers: 1
What's
this?
Printer-Friendly Page
Subscribe to get & post, or stop messages by email Subscribe
All messages    << 28-43  12-27 of 59  1-11 >>
About these ads
Who | When
Messagessort recent-bottom   
Post a new message
 
Stephen Shevlin  27
09-02-2005 05:52 AM ET (US)
One of things I've learnt about the US from this is that there is absolutely no petrol reserves in the US, they're talking about shipping them across from Europe. I find this shocking.
Dave Clements  26
09-02-2005 05:23 AM ET (US)
Just to be more depressiong, here's a thought... Wouldn't it be a great time for al-Qaida to mount an attack on Saudi oil facilities? Just an attack would bump up the price of oil. If they're actually successful in cutting production, then the effects could be enormous.
Brad Holden  25
09-02-2005 01:08 AM ET (US)
As an FYI, there is an interesting article by Jonathon Weisman on the Washington Post webpage on the economic impact of Katrina. He interviews reps from places like Dow Chemical and a PR rep for the Air Transport Association.

Fuel prices for aviation are shooting up, and a lot of chemical manufacturing capability is reduced. This should have a serious impact on the near term US economy.
   24
09-01-2005 08:07 PM ET (US)
Deleted by topic administrator 09-01-2005 08:11 PM
S. F. Murphy  23
09-01-2005 06:14 PM ET (US)
Dave,

The Army National Guard units, which fall under State Governor authority (none of them have been Federalized) do have the full authority to use force to restore civil order.

All the Governor has to do, is give the order.

And I might point out, they are stealing more than mere bottled water and cheetoes. They are breaking into medical facilities, nursing homes, the homes of the dead, hijacking food shipments being carried in police vehicles as well as stealing cars, firing on Army helicopters, law enforcement, etc, etc, etc.

If it were me, if I was there as a Guardsman, I'd throw down my gear and tell my chain of command I wouldn't do another thing to help until I was given a rifle, some rules of engagement and the authority to put an end it to this anarchy.

And if they die, well, maybe they should have thought about that.

Shoot'em and let the gators have them. They are taking shit from people who desperately need it.

Respects,
Steve
Northtown, Missouri
Dave Bell  22
09-01-2005 06:02 PM ET (US)
"martial law" is one of those things which varies by place, and Louisiana is a bit different to the rest of the USA.

Under English Common Law there's no such thing. What would happen is that the military, as an organised and disciplined body of Englishmen, would be fulfilling the general duty toi maintain the Queen's Peace. It may even be that the Sheriff calls out a posse. More likely, there's statute law from the Cold War era, and maybe before, which affects all this.

I know that the USA has Federal Law which requires the military to have special permission before they can do such things.
Jetse  21
09-01-2005 04:28 PM ET (US)
Alex--

Today at the job I also heared that twenty(!) oil rigs were missing. I work at a company that makes sea propulsion systems (propellers, CPPs, side- and azimuth thrusters, waterjets), and we have a *lot* of business in the Gulf of Mexico.

So I'm afraid that this blog post of rig losses is on the money, indeed.
Lantern Bearer  20
09-01-2005 04:04 PM ET (US)
Port activity is stretched up the Mississippi River for 50 miles. Facilities in the immediate NOLA area may be affected in the near term due to transport and highway access but adjustment will be made. The loss of port capacity in NOLA will shift north to undamaged facilities with available capacity. As long as the Mississippi River channel is navigable ships and barges will come and go. The worst damage is to the populated areas of old NOLA. If there is rebuilding in the NOLA basin, it will be to the exclusion of the greater number of the former residents. The city will be rebuilt on the basis of gentrification and upscale development. The French Quarter will be carefully repaired and shored up in many ways but the underclass that lived in the immediate area that gave the Quarter its real flavor will be excluded. I foresee the mass destruction of damaged lower value homes on lots that will now surge in value. A lot of folks now sheltering in Huston will become Texans because as their absence from NOLA goes on in time, many will reluctantly accept settling elsewhere. A truly sad consequence of this storm.
alex  19
09-01-2005 03:46 PM ET (US)
Scary blog post from The Oil Drum about rig losses in the Gulf:

http://216.127.55.83/story/2005/8/31/83553/8973

And a more thoughtful one about the future of energy in the US:

http://216.127.55.83/story/2005/8/31/124723/302

Comments are, as usual, variable. Some good data about the seven refineries that are off-line is buried in there.
kstop  18
09-01-2005 03:43 PM ET (US)
Advocating "a slug to the skull" for looting is at best monstrous and at worst monstrous and stupid. If people start seeing cops and soldiers as yet another threat - which they will if they go around popping caps in looter's asses over televisions and bottled water - an awful lot more people will die.
S. F. Murphy  17
09-01-2005 01:56 PM ET (US)
Looters (I describe a looter as someone stealing something that is not needed for basics, i.e. I would not shoot someone stealing a loaf of bread) should be terminated with extreme and immediate prejudice.

As it is, there are armed gangs firing on Army National Guard helicopters (that alone should get you a slug in the skull) as well as law enforcement.

You shoot them because it will escalate and it has been escalating precisely because they haven't taken firm measures.

Further, Martial Law was declared before the hurricane hit. The civil law is currently null and void until martial law concludes.

The longer this nonsense goes on, the longer martial law will last.

Besides. Practical matter. Just where are you planning on imprisoning all of these looters?

Further, what if they Resist?

Respects,
Steve
Northtown, Missouri
Jonathan Vos Post  16
09-01-2005 01:16 PM ET (US)
There's a lot of vague kneejerking about Theft versus Looting under Louisiana Law (which is Napoleonic). For the record:

Louisiana Looting Law
LA R.S. 14:62.5

A. Looting is the intentional entry by a person
without authorization into any dwelling or other
structure belonging to another and used in whole or in
part as a home or place of abode by a person, or any
structure belonging to another and used in whole or in
part as a place of business, or any vehicle,
watercraft, building, plant, establishment, or other
structure, movable or immovable, in which normal
security of property is not present by virtue of a
hurricane, flood, fire, act of God, or force majeure
of any kind, or by virtue of a riot, mob, or other
human agency, and the obtaining or exerting control
over or damaging or removing property of the owner.

B. Whoever commits the crime of looting shall be fined
not more than ten thousand dollars or imprisoned at
hard labor for not more than fifteen years, or both.

Louisiana Theft Law
LA R.S. 14:67

A. Theft is the misappropriation or taking of anything
of value which belongs to another, either without the
consent of the other to the misappropriation or
taking, or by means of fraudulent conduct, practices,
or representations. An intent to deprive the other
permanently of whatever may be the subject of the
misappropriation or taking is essential.

B.(1) Whoever commits the crime of theft when the
misappropriation or taking amounts to a value of five
hundred dollars or more shall be imprisoned, with or
without hard labor, for not more than ten years, or
may be fined not more than three thousand dollars, or
both.

(2) When the misappropriation or taking amounts to a
value of three hundred dollars or more, but less than
a value of five hundred dollars, the offender shall be
imprisoned, with or without hard labor, for not more
than two years, or may be fined not more than two
thousand dollars, or both.

(3) When the misappropriation or taking amounts to
less than a value of three hundred dollars, the
offender shall be imprisoned for not more than six
months, or may be fined not more than five hundred
dollars, or both. If the offender in such cases has
been convicted of theft two or more times previously,
upon any subsequent conviction he shall be imprisoned,
with or without hard labor, for not more than two
years, or may be fined not more than two thousand
dollars, or both.

C. When there has been a misappropriation or taking by
a number of distinct acts of the offender, the
aggregate of the amount of the misappropriations or
taking shall determine the grade of the offense.
S. F. Murphy  15
09-01-2005 12:32 PM ET (US)
Three dollars a gallon has arrived in Kansas City. We are usually one of the last to go over any given dollar mark. As with other places, there are rumors that stations may run out. I'll probably run the vehicle out during my lunch break to the local station and put in what I can.

Then I'm going to sit down with the budget and figure out what to cut.

Chances are, what I will do is simply drive less. I can't avoid that on Monday through Wednesday due to college classes right after work (and the buses in Kansas City, especially if you live North of the River, aren't worth a shit in my opinion). But Thursdays and Fridays, I may just break down and walk the five miles into Downtown Kansas City, or break the bike out.

That'll work right up until our damnable winter hits (usually arrives first day of October and doesn't leave until mid-May).

That said, books are usually the last thing I cut. They are right next to rent, food, beer and gym membership.

Respects,
Steve
Northtown, Missouri
 Person was signed in when posted  14
09-01-2005 11:58 AM ET (US)
Deleted by topic administrator 09-01-2005 12:04 PM
Charlie StrossPerson was signed in when posted  13
09-01-2005 11:46 AM ET (US)
Alex: thanks, WaPo link nicked for next blog entry.
Antti Nannimus  12
09-01-2005 11:38 AM ET (US)
>"What are the likely consequences (locally and globally) of blowing a 5% of GDP sized hole under the waterline of the US economy?"

It's clear then, Osama Bin Laden is almost certainly behind this Al Katrina too. We will be declaring war on hurricanes very soon now.

Antti
RSS link What's this?
All messages    << 28-43  12-27 of 59  1-11 >>
QuickTopicSM message boards
Over 200,000 topics served
Learn more Frequently asked questions  Acknowledgements
What they're saying about QuickTopic
 Questions, comments, or suggestions? Contact Us
Read our use policy before beginning. We value your privacy; please read our privacy statement.
Copyright ©1999-2008 Internicity Inc. All rights reserved.