Welcome to CCS

Hello. I am new to the concept of Celtic Christianity. I suppose that it is a common misconception that all Celts were pagan. My question pretains to the topic of the calender. Pagan Celts have a pagan calendar, so do Christian Celts have a Christian calendar, mapping out special holidays or rituals?

Thank You for your information

Mathuin

Dia anseo isteach!

Greetings Melina,

And welcome to our sleepy little group! Thank you for you kind words and we would all definitely agree with your assertions about Celtic Christianity. As for being a Roman Catholic, that is not required. We all come from such various and divergent backgrounds! The thing that unites us all here is the love of Christ for each other. (that doesn't mean you have to like everyone here!). We are from Catholic (various groupings), Orthodox and many of the Protestant denominations. Some here prefer not to be associated with a particular church or denomination but have a strong interest in all things spiritual. So, regardless of your own background, please feel welcomed! Ta failte!.

Perhaps I have not been paying too much attention to what's going on in Evangelicalism but could you explain what RCC is? I'm not familiar with it. As for Celtic Christianity, I see it as going beyond traditional 'Church Christianity' into a more aggressive form of a personal devotional life. Too often in churches the emphasis is on maintaining the well being of the particular group. The Celts believed that to make a change in the world you must first make yourself like Christ and then live your life like according to His ways. We call this the Celtic Way of Spirituality. This passion that we all have may lead us to disagreements but the Love of Christ holds us all together. I find it refreshing! We are non-conformists striving to conform to the Christ!

Please feel free to introduce yourself to the group. As I mentioned, its been a bit sleepy around here lately (perhaps the 'Winter Doldrums' for those of us in the Northern Hemisphere!). We would love to hear 'your story'! How God led you to the Celtic Way is always a wonder for us all. So please feel free to share or question us as you will!

Thanks again for joining our little group. May the Lord bless you in your journey here...

Slan,
Marty

I've just found this site and am interested in reading past postings about CC. Of all the religious expressions I've studied, this path is the one that resonates with my own spirit. I'm not from a Catholic background (actually came out of Methodism into a more evangelical movement, and have now found that to be too political in the extreme)so I find alot of the references to the RCC to be confusing, but I am trying. Thank you for the dialogue that happens here. It's a good learning tool.

Cindy,

WOW great find. I have not seen that before. I guess that is why it is the "LIVING WORD."

IHHN,
Scotty

m/954 Robert said: The use of the tterm "path" suggests something akin to Buddism.

Consider this from Jeremiah 6:16:

This is what the LORD says:
       "Stand at the crossroads and look;
       ask for the ancient paths,
       ask where the good way is, and walk in it,
       and you will find rest for your souls.
      
Cindy
Author of Brigid of Ireland

Blessings Robert,

Like Marty said, each of us are called to our own Paths. For me as a Lutheran, it simply allows me to stay focused within our liturgical style of worship. I see things differently as a CC then some people. When we sing hymns, I can really focus on those that mention God’s creation, which is a strong point in CC. We see God in all of Creation. Not so that we can worship nature (i.e. rock, wind, water, fire, ex.), but rather we can be with God always in all things. Case in point; the other morning I woke up with a heavy heart and a lot on my find, while outside walking the dog, I hear the first morning bird begin to sing. I immediately recalled the scripture that the bird does not worry about his next meal, so how much more does our Heavenly Father care about us over the bird. I knew then that God was with me and would take care of me.

As I work, I realize that God gave me my talents and therefore I honor Him with my work. Now I am not always there, but that is why this is a journey. I have my direction and goal; with Christ as the prize. There is nothing in the world that I don’t see God in. My family and I just went through Hurricane Katrina and we never lost sight of God’s loving hand in it all. We lost everything and He has allowed us to get it all back and then some. I have a better job, a better home, and a better place to raise my family. These are all things that I would have and could not have done had it not been for Katrina. Now I do not say that God did this to curse or bless curtain people, I simply realize that all things work for the good for those who love Christ Jesus.

As you can see, none of this is strange or out of the ordinary of the basic beliefs of the church , but my CC way of understanding allows me to stay focused to God’s basic plan and strip away all the material world to a basics of life. The church building and all the material things it is filled with are simple tools we use as an outward sign of God’s love. For me and other CCs we can stand in the middle of the woods, float in the ocean, walk through a field and God is still there. So even with out a building and even with out a Bible in our head, we know that we are with God and His written word is on our hearts.

IHHN,
Scotty

Dia anseo isteach!

Greetings Robert,

Thanks so much for your post, those are excellent questions you raised. Allow me to deal with the 'Buddhism' issue first. The eightfold path of both Mahayana and Hinhayana Buddhism still relies on 'works' (dharma), this is not the case here. We are all Christians! Without Christ as the center of our life we would all still be lost. We freely acknowledge that He is the only redemption for our souls and works are simply a means to please and glorify Him. We use the word 'path' simply because Celtic Christianity is a journey (quest) we undertake individually. It may be slightly different than the path others are on but we all are headed to Christ.

As I'm sure you are aware, once the Church was united. Today we live in the aftermath of all the fractures that have occurred over the centuries. We all come from various backgrounds and denominations (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant) yet we all desire to walk the path Christ has for us to follow. The goal is the same, Christ, but our perspectives are different.
You will see on the web that there are organizations that call themselves 'Celtic Churches'. They are good places of worship but there is no unified Celtic Church any more. Rather, they are individual institutions from various denominations who have modified their worship style to include Celtic beliefs and practices into their services. Hence, you may find a Celtic Catholic Church, or a Celtic Episcopal Church, or a Celtic Orthodox Church. This is all fine and good! People need to worship God in a form they can relate to. Yet, rather than focusing on our differences, we choose to uplift the same ideals that our Celtic forbearers had towards Christ. The Celtic Church was part of the Early Church and therefore is a common denominator to all the forms of Christianity today.

I tend to be a little long-winded sometimes (30 years in a classroom!) and don't want to belabor a point so I will stop here. Your first question "What is the Celtic Way of Spirituality?" can be a topic of discussion for my next reply if you are still interested. I would love the chance to share it with you! Hopefully, the others here will share their thoughts and feelings about it as well.

Thanks again for your post and please feel free to both challenge and question us on any aspects you may disagree with. 'Iron sharpens iron' is a good saying for us all...

Slan
Marty

What is the Celtic Way of Spirituality? It appears not to be chruch associated. The use of the tterm "path" suggests something akin to Buddism.
Perhaps this is a cult?
Please reply plainly. So may times I get circular responses.

Dia anseo isteach!

Greetings Cindy,

Solomon got it right! "There's nothing new under the sun!" Was true then... is true today! I think however, the real credit goes to his 'Source' for the eternal truth of it...

As for Rick Warren's book, I use it weekly as part of my Sabbath devotionals. I too am amazed at how Celtic some of his concepts are! I wonder if he realizes it himself or is it rather, wisdom just cannot be owned by any one sect!?

As for my past, actually... I was raised Irish Catholic! (heheheh) That's a little 'sterner' than most and includes all sorts of 'mysteries'!!! But the one unifying theme of Catholicism is the dependence upon the Church for salvation. To separate yourself from her is tantamount to turning your back on God as well. As a young man I set out on my quest to find the reality of Christ and thankfully... he found me! Even as I ministered in a Pentecostal church for many years, I dealt with people who still weren't sure of their salvation or even God's love for them. Focusing on the 'negative' side of our personalities is quite common I have found.

As for debates, please, never hesitate to pose questions or raise an issue of disagreement. That's what we are here for! It is written that 'iron sharpens iron' and there is much to be learned from it. Even the 'lurkers' learn while listening! So, don't be afraid to 'have at it' anytime...
Thanks again for the post and your insights....

Slan
Marty

Thanks, Marty. You have cleared some things up for me. I am always on the look out for political statements and jumped to the wrong the conclusion when the word "peace" was mentioned. That was foolish.

At any rate, I'm afraid what you're saying does not sound radical to me. I've read much more radical stuff than that!

I'm surprised by one statement you made: In Western (Roman) theology, we have been taught to suppress the negative and accentuate the positive so that we may serve God better and hopefully make it into eternity.

Could that be true? Maybe it is. As for myself, the word "hopefully" was never taught nor suggested to me. It's interesting to think that this may very well be what separates people in their beliefs of God.

My aim in coming here, however, was not to agree or disagree or enter into debates. I'm sorry if that disappoints anyone and I'm sorry that I kind of strayed from that with my last post. My aim was, and is, to gain a greater understanding of that Celtic Way and how it relates to people today. I certainly do adhere to some of it myself, but I'm not sure about everything. But that's okay. It's a journey.

I said before that I was not Catholic, and you told me you weren't either, but I'm striving to understand some of the Catholic faith and the spirituality of the Irish, Catholic or not. I'm not trying to convert. Although I'm always learning and growing, I'm confident I'm in the right place spiritually.

I think if the author of this piece is saying what you suggest he's saying, he could have used a word better than "possess". Perhaps "embrace" or accept. But then, I'll have to get the book you suggested to be sure. It's interesting that much of what you are saying fits with the book The Purpose Drive Life. But that's not too surprising. There's nothing new under the sun!

Dia anseo isteach!

Greetings Cindy,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the article I uploaded. You've made some very good observations and objections! I agree that it was a very good summary of the development of Celtic Christianity and its relevance for today.

Here's my take on a few of the objections you raised. In the statement "And perhaps most significantly, we will learn that it is possible to live peaceably in the face of terror." it is not dealing with teaching us to live with terrorism, it is saying that we can still be at peace within ourselves in spite of it.

I can understand that it seems like we (here in the West) are 'more civilized' but that is not the case throughout the world. There is still much that needs to be done to bring about world peace and I am convinced that it will not occur unless the Prince of Peace is part of the process. Hence... there will always be those who feel terror and violence will serve them.

The reference to the 'far older' message reflects Christ's radical gospel of peace. Defense of one's self is a necessary ingredient to the love that Christ shows us! So, I would agree that our 'peace and security' involve defense. God counts us all precious in His sight and we have the responsibility to preserve ourselves for His sake as well.

"How do we possess our souls?" I'm glad you asked!!! But... I'm not sure where to begin... Let me start with some background on myself. I am a fan of John O'Donohue's Anam Cara. It was the one book that 'brought me home' to my Celtic self. In it, he spends a great deal of time referencing the nature and influence of the soul.

As I am sure you have discovered by now, Celtic Christianity strives for the 'three Harmonies'. It is one of the distinctive precepts that we live by. Strangely enough it begins with harmony of 'self discovery' rather than seeking God in His own Nature. It is in discovering who we are, who we have been designed to be and how we are to serve Him, that we find the Christ within us all. Accepting ourselves, as He has made us, is what gives us greater clarity in seeing Who He is! He is the God Who Is... within us!
In Western (Roman) theology, we have been taught to suppress the negative and accentuate the positive so that we may serve God better and hopefully make it into eternity. This is not Celtic thought! Believe it or not, God designed us (all people) for good. Everything we hate about ourselves had a 'good' plan and purpose in His design. There is nothing within us that was given us by Him that did not have a good purpose! Discovering what that purpose was and how to use it now... that is how we possess our souls! That is the first of the Harmonies, to learn to be at peace with ourselves. Only then can we learn to understand Who God is, Where He is and How I'm supposed to relate to Him in all mankind.

I realize this may sound a little radical. Wrong! It is 'a lot' radical! But it is one of the reasons we have chosen the Celtic Way of Spirituality. I also realize that my explanation of this concept was quite succinct as well. When studied further, you will see it is a very thorough and well formed realization of the nature of man as part of the Nature of God. There are many other understandings that come into play in this as well and the depth of this is far beyond the scope of this original question. Perhaps in another discussion, after reading John O'Donohue yourself, we can discuss it further if you have a further interest.

So, his comment about 'possessing' our souls may have sounded a little 'off' to you, yet it was quite within the Celtic concept of the wholeness of all life. It would seem to me that he was not only a thorough researcher of the history of Celtic Christianity, he was on the Celtic Way himself! His knowledge came from a heart of understanding...

May God continue to bless all here!

Slan
Marty

It took me awhile to get to that article. It was long, but I read the whole thing. It's a well written summary of Celtic Christianity and seems to fit with everything else I've been reading.

His conclusion was surprising, at least to me, seeing that it was written 21 years ago and talks of terrorism. Not that it didn't exist then, but it's such a focus for us now. I'm not sure I completely agree with his conclusion that we can learn today how to deal with terrorism by studying how the ancient Celtic monks dealt with it. Surely we live in a more civilized world today. I know some may argue, but I think we do!

For as well written and researched as that piece was, the last part puzzled me:
"In a word, the important lesson we can learn from our Christian brothers and sisters of that far distant time is one far older yet: not to render evil for evil. For it is only in patience that we shall possess our souls."
I don't believe that defending yourself is evil. I think the monks who faced Viking attacks did not simply stand and be killed. They had little to fight with. And the last sentence really stumps me. How do we possess our souls?

I guess the author of the piece is a much better journalist than a philospher!

Just my 2 cents.

Oooops!

Okay... I'm losing it!!! Here's the link -
http://www.spiritualitytoday.org/spir2day/853735woods.html

Slan
Marty

Martin 'ol boy,

Ahhh, I know I was slumbering, but what link might we be refering to? I can't comment on what I can't see ;0P

Dia anseo isteach!

Greetings everyone,

Sorry to disturb the slumber but I've come across an article from 1985 about historic Celtic Christianity and its relevance for today that I thought everyone would enjoy. Feel free to comment or question on it here. Maybe we can even get a discussion going again!!! (hehehe)

To be fair, I must give credit for its discovery to our 'old friend' D.! He left it on our former site. God truly works in strange ways... and He still does!!!

Slan
Marty

Scotty,

I have the second edition, 1908. The first edition was 1906, and apparently it's a condensed version of an early book, thus the title "A Small Social History of Ancient Ireland."