Er, hi, Jessika! Welcome!

Um ... bye?

Hi!
My name is Jessika!

Wow.

Hello webmaster, very nice site here, great work!
TomasKell

I suppose it does, Rory. :-)

In other news, for the subscribers, mcgees.org is back.

Ah crap, that makes me Vorthos, doesn't it?

Vorthos is a mythical player named by M:TG Creative Director Matt Cavotta. It refers to someone who plays Magic primarily for the stories and flavor, and who builds decks with an eye to flavor.

So I was visiting the M:TG site today reading up on Guildpact when an article referred to the mythical players that cards are designed for. Timmy, Johnny, Spike...and Vorthos? Who the hell is Vorthos?

just a vulgar Norm Mcdonald interpretation

"That is not what your mother said last night" which the students interpreted as the Member implying that he had spent time socially with that student's mother. By ‘social time’ the prosecution is implying that the Member has, on at least one occasion, has had sex with that student’s mother. Where ‘sex with’ is implying that there has, at least, been oral and/or vaginal penetration, possibly anal or other, with the Member’s member. The Member’s member will from here on out be referred to as MM or the Penis. The student’s mother will from here on be referred to as SM or the Slut.

Last one, I swear. Maybe.

INDICTMENT

COUNT ONE
(TAUNTING)

1. At times material to this indictment:
POSITIONS OF PARTIES RELATED TO THE TREE
     a) David McGee (“McGee”) was seated on the ground, and was not located in the tree (“tree”)
     b) Margaret O’Houlihan (“O’Houlihan”) was seated on the ground, and was not located in tree.
     c) McGee and O’Houlihan had maintained a distance of no less than two (2) feet between themselves at all times.

2. ACTIONS OF THE DEFENDANT
     a) Michael Whelchel (“Whelp”) did approach McGee and O’Houlihan and did knowingly state the following: “David and Margaret sitting in a tree; K-I-S-S-I-N-G; first comes love, then comes marriage; then comes the baby in the baby-carriage.”

THEREFORE

Michael Whelchel did knowingly and corruptly endeavor to influence, obstruct and impede the due course of friendship, by taunting McGee and O’Houlihan, and by subsequently misleading all those within the range of his voice to believe that
     a) McGee and O’Houlihan were seated in a tree (an accusation of a crime, as this took place on public land where climbing of trees is forbidden)
     b) McGee and O’Houlihan’s lips were in close proximity
     c) McGee and O’Houlihan were
          a. In love
          b. Shortly to be wed
          c. Shortly to conceive a child
          d. Shortly to purchase a pram for said child

Michael Whelchel did know that all of these statements were false. In violation of city statute 17-J, and all the common rules of decency, the defendant is herein indicted. What a dick.

Re: 10/28 post

Can we make a contest out of putting playground insults in legalese? Here's my first entry:

"The defendant was then informed that the accused "[was] rubber" whereas the defendant "[was] glue," which the defendant interpreted as the accused implying that whatsoever the defendant said would bounce off of the accused and stick to the defendant."

OK, I can do better than that.

"John Doe replied, "I see London; I see France; I see [name withheld]'s underpants." [name withheld] understood this to mean that John Doe had not only visited two major European capitals, but also inferred that the waistline of his pants had dropped below the socially acceptable level."

"No matter what you think of Gorgeous George, Jeremy Paxman's interview with him last night was off the map." Joshua McGee, 05 May 2005

I have this suspicious feeling that quite a few more people are about to have fairly strong opinions of Mr Galloway.

Well, if that isn't just the single cutest thing ever.

Josh,

Thanks for the information. I already knew about Whole Foods, but I was unclear as to what to get there. We've been shopping there for years, and it had done a great job of meeting Chelsea's vegetarian needs, but just about every single item there that she'd been enjoying turned out not to be vegan-friendly.

As far as I can tell, Chelsea seems to be fine with tofu, but (as I'm sure you've experienced) the day often comes when one can no longer stand to even think about putting any more tofu in one's body for a period of several weeks.

I will be checking out the Uncheese Cookbook, as cheese has been (by far) the hardest part of her diet to give up. Thanks again for your advice. Hopefully, I'll be able to do half as good a job of implementing it as you've done of providing it.

- Whelp

Whole Foods is your friend. That's the first thing.

Pasta is super easy. You can go with a straight marinara or add imitation ground beef to it. All the imitation ground meat products that are found in the refrigerated section of Whole Foods are useful, and the vast majority are vegan.

I don't know how Chelsea feels about tofu, but that's a classic.

Also try couscous. Boil water, stir in the couscous, take it off the heat, let it rest for five minutes, then fluff it with a fork. Way easier than mac and cheese. Add olive oil, sundried tomatoes, imitation chicken stock, soak saffron threads in the water -- there are a lot of choices.

Original Boca Burgers are vegan.

Portabella mushroom sandwiches on hearth bread with olive oil, garlic, basil, and vine-ripened tomatoes are great. Add olives if you're adventurous. In fact, portabella mushrooms in dishes can taste and feel just like meat, and can satisfy meat cravings.

Edamame -- soybeans in the pod -- are the easiest thing to make and can neuter a killer protein craving.

Dissolve 1 level scoop of Nutritional Yeast Flakes and 1 - 1½ teaspoons of Bragg Liquid Aminos in 8 ounces of boiling water for a rich, satisfying, salty-tasting broth containing 9 grams of protein. It tastes a bit like chicken broth. Both of these ingredients are useful in that they provide B12, which absolutely has to be supplemented in a vegan diet. (Really, regardless of what she's read to the contrary, it really, really does need to be supplemented. She'd be good for a couple of years with her body's stores, but then her body would stop working.)

Malt-o-meal, prepared with water or milk substitute, or the Asian hot cereal called BioLife are both good for breakfasts.

When out for dinner, salads, pasta, and baked potatoes with salsa are all options. Indian and Ethiopean foods are also frequently vegan.

For milk substitutes, either get Silk from the refrigerated section or Pacific-brand rice, grain, or nut milks from the unrefrigerated section. Generic soymilk is pretty nasty.

If she likes cheese, Joanne Stepaniak's The Uncheese Cookbook is worth the cover price.

Check back-issues of my veganism blog at http://www.mcgees.org/veganismblog.shtml for some other hints and recipes.

Ask if you need more pointers.

Edited by author 07-23-2005 01:04 PM
Josh,

I find myself in desperate need of your expertise. In a few days, my difficult girlfriend will be returning from Portugal, and I have been assigned to seeing to her care and feeding. She has recently decided that she will be experimenting with the vegan lifestyle, and nothing that I have in my fridge could be vaguely described as vegan (seriously, even my fruits and vegetables are made from the flesh of dead animals). I'd love to go to the store and grab her some vegan-friendly foods, but everything that I've found so far tastes like a combination of sawdust and ass. Unfortunately, Chelsea is a picky eater; sawdust doesn't please her, and the less I say about the time I suggested eating that other thing, the better.

Since you have some vegan experience, I was wondering if you could direct me towards some vegan products that might be considered tasty by higher life forms. Any help that you could give me in this endeavor would be greatly appreciated.

- Whelp

Hmm. Would you mind deleting that comment? I did it through e-mail, and it looks like that didn't work so well.

What the post said: I had never heard of Suspect Zero until you wrote about it on your webpage. Then, today, I saw that Kevin Smith had written about it on his blog. But now, yes now, I see that Suspect Zero is the feature in this Week's Onion A.V. Club Commentary Tracks of the Damned. Wow. I had never heard of the movie, now I can't escape it!

Mom, that director's commentary makes me gag.

1.) Neighborhoodies are awesome, and I'm already setting in motion a plan to use them to promote gang violence.

2.) Director's Commentary: If you have not yet heard the commentary on Conan the Barbarian, I don't think that you can really consider yourself as having lived.

I think that George Galloway and Zell Miller should fight the duel that Miller offered to Chris Matthews.

My goodness, there are some things I miss about England. Roast Lamb & Mint Jelly Crisps and journalists who know what the fuck they're
doing.

Wow. Thanks. Wow.

(For those playing along at home, Whelp = Bob Mike.)

Josh,

If you haven't seen it yet, Post Secret might be the best thing ever done with blogging technology. After, you know, mcgees.org.

- Whelp

That picture made me really happy for some reason. Just the idea that the Catholic church would come out and say "You know what, fuck it. Yeah, we're Nazi's. What are you going to do about it?", has made my day.

So, I felt that this would be the best place for me to post this picture. "Our" new Pope is OLD and GERMAN. Now what are some things that a lot of old Germans have in their personal histories?

Well, the Hitler Youth, for one.

Edited by author 04-17-2005 04:00 AM
Hi Jay,

1. This is mcgees.org, not mcgees.com. But assuming that's what you meant,

2. Unless someone has hacked my mail server, which I doubt, my mail server is not sending the email. The email probably has a forged From header. If you have access to the full message headers (check your email software/service's instructions) paste the message with full headers into SpamCop to see who to complain to (you'll need to set up a free account first, but it's worth it.)

Edit: A way to tell for yourself is to check the headers and look for 64.30.211.193. If that doesn't show up, the message never passed through my server. If it does show up, I should be very interested to know that.

This message has been processed by Brightmail(r) Anti-Virus using Symantec's AntiVirus Technology.

16_04_2005.exe was infected with the malicious virus Trojan.Tooso.F and has been deleted because the file cannot be cleaned.

your email server is sending me viruses from joshua@mcgees.com. i do not appriciate it.

Edited by author 04-06-2005 08:06 AM
Josh: It's nice to know that I'm now a published pornographer, and that I've effectively ended any chance I had of being elected to major public office. And all in one fell swoop too!

Bob Mike: Thanks for the inspiration. That was the most fun I've had writing in a while.

The most disturbing part about this is that when I originally found David's writing on the internet, he was writing under the psuedonym of Mrs. D Lopez.

PS - Dave, that story was awesome. I am in awe.

Dave, I'd just like to post, for the record, that SpamBouncer filtered out your fan fiction as "Porn/XXX".

Wow. I mean, wow. Is there anyone who doesn't have something of theirs posted on the internet? I know I do. Go ahead, Google my name. I dare you.

It was another beautiful, sunny day at Bayside High School as the bell rang for first period to begin. Zach Morris and A.C. Slater sauntered into the classroom, where they immediately caught sight of their new leader, Dave McGee, sitting in the back corner of the room, wearing sunglasses and chewing on the end of a matchstick. Zach and Slater took their seats next to him, and waited for him to address them.

Dave had been the new leader of their clique since transferring to Bayside three weeks ago. Stunned at the lack of coolness at the new place, Dave had marked these two loser clowns as the hippest Bayside had to offer. He was just using them to gain a foothold, but as soon as he didn't need them anymore he was going to drop them like the fools they were.

"Stop staring at me," Dave finally said. Zach and Slater looked sheepish, but were saved when the principal Mr. Belding walked into the room.

"Hey!" said some girl that had never been in that class before and never would be again, "Where's Mr. Tuttle?"

"Mr. Tuttle's out sick today, children, so I'm going to teach the class today." There was an audible grown from the entire class, as everybody shifted in their seats. "Oh don't be so forlorn, kids!" Belding said cheerfully. "Remember that the last three letters of 'principal' are 'pal.'" He laughed uproariously, but was interrupted as Dave McGee finally spoke.

"Shut the fuck up, bald man!" The principal cowered as everyone else in the class looked aghast. "You're not teaching shit today. I'm in charge here. I told you to bring me a soda, you dumb bastard. Now get the hell out of this classroom and don't come back until you have a soda for me!"

Belding began to cry, and hobbled out of the classroom, his shoulders shaking with sobs. The class let out a mighty cheer and starting to chant in unison "DAVE MCGEE! DAVE MCGEE!" Dave just smiled, and acknowledged their applause with a slow nod.

"Oh, man!" said Zach, laughing. "I wish Screech had been here to see that."

"Yeah, but don't forget, Preppy," Slater responded. "That guy was a murderer."

It was true. Samuel "Screech" Powers had recently been convicted of the murder of Lisa Turtle, a woman he had viciously stalked all through junior high and high school. He was currently serving back-to-back life sentences at Rikers.

"I know," said Zach really sadly. "I can't believe my best friend would do something like that."

"I can," said Dave, with a cool sneer. "That little insufferable nerd was always unstable. He got what he had coming to him." Slater nodded his agreement.

Zach, looking sly, subtly motioned for a timeout.

"Timeout!" he said. Everybody in the room froze, silent. Zach began his soliloquy. "Uh-oh. Looks like I'm in for a little competition. This new guy is cool, and has everybody worshipping him. If I'm not careful, he's gonna go after Kelly next!" Suddenly Zach realized that Dave McGee wasn't frozen, he was chuckling quietly.

"What the hell?" said Zach. "I called timeout!"

"Your little magic tricks don't work on me, Morris. I run this place now."

Zach gulped. Then, Dave told him the truth: he wasn't going to go after Kelly Kapowski, he had already been there. Earlier that morning out on the football field, the same football field where they had once discovered an oil well and were excited to have the school be rich but then the oil well leaked and got on this duck that the class was taking care of and the students all realized that oil was bad for the environment and so they protested against it and eventually the board of education saw the error of their ways and asked for the well to be capped again, out on that same football field Dave had already hooked up with Kelly. In the early morning dew, his masculine hands had carefully caressed the folds of a) her 50% cotton, 50% polyester Bayside Tigers cheerleader outfit and b) her vagina. Kelly was just waiting for lunchtime so that she could break up with Zach. Dave and Kelly already had plans to go to The Max after class for a strawberry phosphate and some more heavy petting. Zach, like Belding before him, ran out of the classroom crying. The only thought in his head was joining the NYPD, which he eventually did, I guess. But as Dave looked at the frozen classroom before him, he realized the truth: his reign at Bayside High had just officially begun.

With a smile, he called "Time in!"

The episode you mention, Dave, is the only one I don't remember very clearly, because I took Ambien too early in the evening. I had to have Jenn fill in bits that were murky in the morning.

I would be more inclined to believe Dave's claims if I hadn't stumbled upon his volumes upon volumes of Saved by the Bell fan-fiction, where he awkwardly writes himself into every episode.

Other than the complete mis-step that was the episode "Whatever the Case May Be" (yikes. just not a good episode at all) I think that Lost is just possibly my favorite television show of all time.

Well, so as not to get your hopes too far up, I should probably clarify that I'm still a member of Team God. I can appreciate the Jay Pinkerton articles, though, because my religious experiences amount to a search for the truth, and the sooner that one clears away all of the utterly insane shit (90% or so of the Bible, and an even greater percentage of what comes out of most pulpits), the easier the truth becomes to find.

Also, Pinkerton makes fun of people, and I've never found a situation where I didn't support that.

It's that next logical leap where the Christian defense loses me — that since neither side knows whether a superior being exists or not, it's defensible to assume He published a novel two thousand years ago. I'm all for faith, but at some point, I'm sorry: if you're taking 'We are surrounded by uncertainty' and arriving at 'This omnipotent guy in a cloud city told me He hates fags as much as I do,' you don't get to pull out the Atheism is as Much a Belief System as Christianity trump card. I'm afraid you're going to have to show your work.

That site is great. Thanks.

I saw "QT - Bob Mike Hitler" in my Inbox, remembered my last post, and thought, "Shit." So you have no idea how relieved your actual post made me.

Re: The "jealous God" of the Old Testament...

Go here. You will not be disappointed.

That God, he is one bad mamma-jamma.

Never-- oh never!-- allow yourself to start down the slippery slope of discussing the arrows in The Lord of the Rings. Ignore ignore ignore. Put fingers in ears and repeat after me: "LA-LA-LA-LA-LA!"

On 27 Mar 2005 05:33:21 -0000, QT - Joshua McGee
<qtopic+3-KEfaQmGijryAZIg6vuYl@quicktopic.com> wrote:
>


--
"...I do suck most wondrous..."
Herman Melville, "Moby Dick, or The Whale"

David McGee
www.davemcgee.com
< replied-to message removed by QT >

Ah, the curses of a shared computer.

- Josh

Grnegsnspm: Indeed.

mcgees.org is going down. I hope to have it back up by 0030 PST.

- Josh

I just noticed the numbers on top of the page. Nice. I wonder how many people have played the lotto with those numbers since that episode.

I second Dave's statement. Especially the part about him being fat.

I have no idea what your most recent post means. But I have a feeling that you're calling me fat.

You scooped me. :-) I think it's great news. And I also think than when I start typing "news" with "n-o-o-", it means my Ambien has kicked in and it's time to sleep.

New Jersey is suing Blockbuster Video over their new late-fee policy. From the article:

"The state of New Jersey claims Blockbuster Inc., the nation's largest movie-rental chain, has violated the state's consumer protection laws with its new policy on late fees.

In a lawsuit filed Friday, the state charged that Blockbuster failed to disclose key terms in the policy, including that overdue rentals are automatically converted to a sale on the eighth day after the due date."

I just read your post about the TV show Project Runway.

You said that reality TV "is hurting the nation almost as much as the Republicans." Do you really think so? Maybe I put too little stock in how the role of television programs shapes our nation. But the Republicans are systematically dismantling civil rights laws; attempting to do away with a woman's right to choose; letting corporate polluters that are destroying the environment police themselves on a voluntary basis; letting the CEOs of major companies head the governmental departments that should be policing them; fighting wars and committing genocide in the name of God; attempting to do away with any separation between church and state. I could go on too, but the point is this: I hardly think that The Bachelorette can hold a candle to this kind of thing. I don't think we're anywhere near "almost" and I think we're not even at "somewhat." It ain't even the same fuckin' sport.

I think that reality TV is having negative and possibly devastating effects on the TV industry, and particularly on televised drama. But I also think the same thing about forensic science shows. I generally don't like reality TV, and I generally don't like forensic science shows. I've been watching a lot of DVDs lately. But these things tend to go in cycles, and my guess is that in a few years reality TV programs will have scaled back down to a more normal level, just like shows such as "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" and "The Weakest Link" eventually went the way of the dodo. Admittedly, those had much shorter shelf lives. But reality TV won't be around forever.

As to the quote from David Cross you mentioned, he was saying it particularly about "The Simple Life" and particularly about a commercial for a bullshit invention that was parading itself as a savior. It's possible that he (and you) would extend it to just any reality show, but I'm not going with you on that. My roommate Jess likes the show Project Runway, and just by being in the same apartment I've caught a few episodes. I don't care for it, but I don't think it's as vile as following around two heiresses to watch them embarrass themselves. The contestants on Runway are trying to prove themselves as designers, and, yes, they're kind of whiny. But one is a competition: the other is just rubbernecking at a freeway accident.

Regarding the one designer who "sold herself short": I didn't see this particular episode, but it sounds like it can be equated with a losing sports team. I'm always pissed when people say "The refs screwed us up." I like it better when they say "We didn't play well enough." So sure, I think she said the right thing afterward. But just as in any competition, just because you lose graciously doesn't mean you should have won.

Again, I'm with you that I wouldn't miss a lot of these shows. But comparing them to the political party that is attempting to destroy the fabric of our nation seems like a major overstatement.

In other news, I need to stop pretending that I just have allergies and admit that I'm actually sick. Sigh...

Just now, I read the story about the Apple employees continuing their work on a cancelled project.

That is one excellent story.

Blockbuster's sneaky new policy should bring ruin upon them. It appeared to me, without knowing the unspoken details, that Netflix had scared them into an unlimited rental period format, much like Netflix. That's certainly how they presented it.

Blockbuster is only good for situations like needing to see Life of Brian on a certain night, but even then most movies that I'm willing to go out and rent I might as well just go purchase, with DVD prices these days (on a sidenote, I purchased a DVD last week for $9.99, 51 cents less than it would have cost me to go to a movie theatre once).

I would think that Blockbuster with their unhelpful staff, their shabbily kept merchandise, and their sneaky new sales pitch would indeed tank. But then again, the Wherehouse stayed open for years. So you never can tell.

Blockbuster? I can't remember the last time I saw the inside of a Blockbuster. I received a Blockbuster gift card for Christmas, and haven't been able to bring myself to enter the store to spend it. It's free products, and it'll go to waste if I don't go to a Blockbuster location, and I still can't make myself do it.

Dude, Netflix. Case closed.

I'll miss Tavis Smiley too. I'll miss hearing him lead his guests in the most outrageous fashion.

At least I now don't have to bother with writing furious email to my local NPR station. When Smiley led a handful of Abrahamic religious leaders to sit around debating whether non-theists can have morality, my patience with him was well and truly lost.

From Wikipedia's article on the durian (and which probably should be edited out):

Many people regard the durian to be a very tasty fruit; it is often called the "king of fruits" by locals. Some Westerners have described the fruit as "like eating custard in a public lavatory."

This is Susan, not David - I don't know how to change it. My comment, "Wow."

Echoing the slick site design comment; adding in the excellent t-shirts comment.

Slick site design! Good luck.

If anybody here didn't already know it: I'm a poker fiend. I was playing before it was on every other station every night. The poker trend has brought old players a bounty at the tables, but more importantly a major business opportunity. I’ve found myself to be in a position where I felt I could capitalize on this…so I’m trying.

WWW.ONTILTCASINOGEAR.COM

I own half of it…go, buy stuff there, email me for a discount code, let me know if there are any problems or if you think there’s something missing (we’re very open to ideas). We’ll be posting new designs all the time and updating our editorials.

Based on precedent, if I called you a "nature hater," I could probably get it to rhyme.

A couple of iTunes realizations:

1. The Apple Lossless encoder is faster, by about a factor of two, than the MP3 encoder, but seems to bog down my system more.

2. If you have two CD-ROM drives, you can re-tag one CD while another is being imported.

Weeping. Weeping.

I moved the PC that runs iTunes into the bedroom. After spending a month ripping all my CDs, I listened to them for the first time on my studio headphones, so as not to wake Jenn.

160 kbps MP3s are almost unlistenable on good headphones. Dream Theater warbles. Symphonies sound like MIDI. Piano decays are all wrong. So these files certainly won't sound very good on my Marantz system in the living room.

You have no idea how frustrated I am right now. Or maybe you do. You can scratch off an iPod for me right now. There are only two options: my music files will sound like shit on an iPod, or the audio output of the iPod will be lousy enough that I won't be able to tell they sound like shit, which means they will sound more like shit.

To encode all my music with a lossless encoder would take around 140 gigabytes of space. On a PC that's fine, that's just $100 for a new hard drive to hold all the music. But forget about being able to take my music on the road for now. Forget an 80 GB iPod. I need a 320 GB iPod. And that's not going to happen, not for five years anyway. And although the <a href="http://www.slimdevices.com">Squeezebox</i> I have my eye on supports Apple Lossless in theory, the wireless model is only 802.11b, so I'm sure there would be dropouts. Which means that if I get one, it will have to be the wired model, and I'll have to run 50 feet of Cat 5 through the house.

Why I thought I'd be happy with MP3 encoding in the first place is beyond me. Looks like another month of CD ripping.

Time for some live poorly encoded bootlegs of U2 songs!

I don't know, I'll ask Steve.

I wish they were offering a non-color, non-photo iPod with a 60 GB HD for $400.

By the way, serious U2 fans are trying to figure out where they could possibly find 400 U2 tracks for the U2 iPod collection. Apparently all known tracks add up to about 300.

Why isn't there a link at the top of this page for "All Messages" anymore? Have you reached the all message size limit or something?

Man, I knew I should have waited for the special U2 iPod.

Oh, and it's $600.

A 60 GB iPod just debuted. It does photos in 16 bit color, too. More here.

I could probably have just e-mailed you that message. Also probably this one. Whatever.

Oh, to have so much music that the cost of re-tagging would outweigh the benefits of an iPod. I find it to be almost mystically elegant and convenient, even if I do have to go in on every album and do Last, First in order to make me happy. Since all y'all West Coasties presumably also have automobiles w/ CD players, there may be less of a jump in the level of convenience. Though I have a dwelling I generally return to, I tend to lead a rather peripatetic life that makes carrying around loads of CDs + player a major inconvenience. Yay iPod.

Josh: The link to your original post about the earthquake prognostication is broken.

Josh: have you been keeping track of the number of hours you've spent on re-tagging your music?

No, but I'll start keeping track. I haven't spent that much time so far, because it's so frustrating. But I'm planning to get a network music player (check out the homepage for the Squeezebox — it's awesome) in addition to an iPod, so I can listen to my collection in the living room -- and correct tagging will be ultra-important there.

I currently have a 300-disc CD changer, but it became too frustrating to choose my 300 favorite CDs to go in the player (poor Josh, I know), so the iTunes saga was begun to address that problem.

Dude, I know exactly what you mean. This is the part of the iPod that I hate: no directories. I, like most other people I know, had all my music sorted into directories according to whatever structure made sense to me (something like genre>artist>album>tracks). It makes it very easy to find what you're looking for (especially on a windows based computer). I think in a directory structure. When I found out that the iPod interface doesn't work with this sort of structure all I could think was "I'm not going to re-tag everything I've ever downloaded/purchased." After watching Chris (aka Chuck) go through this process I realized I had made the right decision. As it stands now I can find any song I want by double-clicking the mouse 4 times...fast enough for me.

Josh: have you been keeping track of the number of hours you've spent on re-tagging your music?

By a rough estimate an iPod would actually cost me something like $630. And that's with a very small estimate for the number of hours I would have to spend "fixing" my collection...not worth it for me

You're preëmpting a planned post. I was going to post when I finished ripping all my CDs, and give a total for the size of all the files. The rock CDs took about a month to enter. Then I slammed into the wall that is Gracenote classical music CD records.

They are abysmal. Absolutely horrible. The tags were mostly designed for pop, so people fill information pretty much willy-nilly into the provided fields. Composer ends up in "Artist", track name in "Album", album in "Track Name". But let's say people get those right. We still have huge problems.

Consider track names. Say you have a CD of the Rach 2. People will copy down the track names like this:

Track 1: Symphony No. 2 In E Minor, Op. 27: I. Largo (Allegro moderato)
Track 2: - II. Scherzo (Allegro molto)

Aargh. That's not enough information for track 2. I know that's how it's written on the back of the CD, but that's because the back of the CD has this little thing called context. If you see "- II. Scherzo" in your tracks listing you're hosed. You have no idea what symphony you're looking at.

Then there is the phenomenon of honoring the publisher's typographic conventions. The composer is not "SERGEY RACHMANINOV", it's "Rachmaninov, Sergey".

Or is it "Rachmaninoff, Sergei"? Or "Rachmaninoff, Sergei (1873 - 1943)"? Or "Rachmaninoff, Sergei Vasilievich"? Or "Rakhmaninov, Serge"? Depends on the publisher of the CD, and the person who entered the data originally, and whether or not the latter decided to "correct" the former or not. Nightmare.

But who is the artist? The number of combinations of conductor, featured pianist, and orchestra name, not to mention the seemingly random punctuation, boggles the mind.

But surely within one boxed set of CDs it's consistent, right? Right? Right? Damn it.

Is "year" the year of composition? Or the year it was performed? Or the year Deutsche Grammophon put out the record? Or the year it was reissued on CD? Or nothing?

So you essentially have to re-enter all the information yourself, if you want your collection to be at all consistent. With rock CDs I can let the ripping happen in the background while I do other work or play. But with classical CDs I'm correcting the track data for the whole time the next CD is being ripped, and sometimes longer. And that's without even fixing the Gracenote information for future users. If I want to do that, I have to change the track titles while the CD is in the drive, which at least halves my data entry rate.

So I don't know for sure how much space I'd need on an iPod, but I expect it's about what I estimated before: just short of 40 GB. So it seems idiotic to buy a 40 GB iPod, because that would leave me no room for expansion.

But how long is an iPod going to last me? I know it's a beautiful piece of engineering, but it's still a mechanical hard drive, and it's going to fail at some point. But I'd still like to get at least three years out of it, and 40 GB is probably going to be too limiting.

Haha. Yes, of course I meant "an iPod" not "on iPod." Which I am now leaving uncorrected in the original post, so that year's* later, scholar's** will know what we were talking about.

Now, when we talked about this last time you casually remarked "Oh, I'm waiting for their 80 Gig model." Are you still big-timing me? :)

*Yes, I know.
** Seriously, I know. Its*** a joke.
*** Guess.

> Did you purchase [an] iPod?

Not yet, though I intend to. I'm using iTunes to play music on my PC and to burn CDs. It's really wonderful software.

What I would most like is the pair of iPod and Squeezebox. Check out that link for a groovy demo.

Did you purchase on iPod?

We've moved away from entries from WordCount, but I just found this and had no idea what to do with it.

"Cheesemaking Gouts"

If that's the best thing on there, I don't even want a popsicle... I just don't want a cheesemaking gout.

Josh,

I don't know if you saw this on the Blue, but (speaking as a Homicide fan) it's pretty friggin' cool. I think you'll find it interesting.

umm... Michael Biehn was in Navy Seals too, I think he knows good and well what the slums feel like.

Edited by author 09-06-2004 10:25 PM
1. Please explain why Solemn Penguin is funny, if possible.

When you win the world championships, you get to design your own card, and you get to be in the artwork. Jens Thoren designed a card that ended up being called "Solemn Simulacrum". It reads as follows:

Solemn Simulacrum
4
Artifact Creature
2/2
When Solemn Simulacrum comes into play, you may search your library for a basic land card and put that card into play tapped. If you do, shuffle your library.
When Solemn Simulacrum is put into a graveyard from play, you may draw a card.

Like many Worlds winner-designed Magic cards, it has an interesting but undercosted ability.

So Solemn Penguin uses the template for Solemn Simulacrum, except that Solemn Penguin would have to be a penguin, right? Well, all species of birds recently have creature type "Bird" and are white or blue, and since penguins are sea creatures they would have to be blue. And a penguin cannot just fetch a basic land, that's not flavorful enough. It would have to fetch a snow-covered land, a bizarre one-shot mechanic from Ice Age nine years ago that clutters up the Comprehensive Rules (namely, there are five basic land types but there are ten basic lands, because each snow-covered land is considered a basic land.)

I am sure Wizards has vowed never to create snow-covered lands again, which makes a card that references them really funny. Further, there is the humor of painting Jens to look like a penguin for the artwork. I happen to like all the bizarre block mechanics they've introduced over the years, and I'm thinking about designing a custom set that uses them all: shadow, flanking, phasing, licids (!), horsemanship, bands with other, and so on. It would be an "Über Expert Level" expansion.

(I've played against -- and had my ass kicked by -- the world champion who designed the card Sylvan Safekeeper. I'll tell that story some time when I feel like typing.)

Since Dave has left, I now have all kinds of time to do the week's worth of readings I was mostly ignoring while he was here. So of course, I've been using it to play with Wordcount.org.

Without further ado, I give you a recently generated list of the latest releases from my favorite fictitious bands:

Ambient Homicide -- Relaxing Lindsey
Basic Relations Potential -- Symptomless Toboggan (dronology or math rock)
Story Written -- Tyre Finn (Irish boy with guitar)
Incited Hallelujah -- Fellows Naughty Mob
Vigilance Galloping -- Whiskey Watchmen (obviously fans of Unforgiven)
Click Conquest Massage -- Dysfunctional Gimmicks
Auld Anglo Newsletters -- Abolition Plea
Archival Collage -- Bedroom Republic (lo-fi, laced with field recordings...i'd adore this.)
and my personal favorite combination:
Oozing ANWAR Lustre -- Plasteel Discotheques (punk group performing at the next WTO protest)

all above albums and bands are seperate queries, but the idea was actually spawned by the following unaltered string:

Perceptions Adjusted -- Propaganda Mistress

Badass. =)

I’m safely back in New York. Here is today’s list of WordCount.org inspired band-names. They just keep on getting better!

Apoplectic Turnstile
Docile Lice
“Splendidly Sharpen Docile Lice” is the whole string
Persecuted Selector (punk?)
Intake Margins (shitty emo band)
Divine Grandmother Verdict
Judge Thomas Rock Target (this can be split many ways)
Fresh Scene (boyband!)
Transfer Doubt (Gwen’s new band)
Marbled Hyperplasia
Dimly Gaping Captains
Allocating Orwell
Pietrasanta Protoges (sic)
I swear to God: Agistment Munsters
Allington Heeds (this is just some British Guy that sings and plays guitar)


And the undeniable winner that I can’t even hardly believe is real, and yet I shit you not: Coming to you live from Seattle!Waste Includes Band Customers

1. Please explain why Solemn Penguin is funny, if possible.
2. I'm going to go pass the f out now.

Rad. Don't stop.

Solemn Penguin could totally be a Magic card, too. It would read:

Solemn Penguin
3U
Creature -- Bird
2/2
When Solemn Penguin comes into play, you may search your library for a snow-covered land card and put that card into play tapped. If you do, shuffle your library.
When Solemn Penguin is put into a graveyard from play, reveal the top card of your library. If it is a snow-covered land card, put it in your hand.

(Trust me, that's really funny.)

Let me know when you get tired of these: More band names taken from Wordcount!

Froggy Krishna
Talmudic Effluxion (this band is probably repping Brooklyn)
Vanishing Suzie
Tertiary Empress (this could also be a Magic card)
Formulaic Carafe
Lemony Civvy
Polypropylene Rottweilers
Solemn Penguin
Travesty Encampent
Tribal Wholesale
Decimated Wellingtons
and tonight's winner:
Bulging Reactionary Archers!

I love this website!

Re: WordCount--

This may not get me a popsicle, and I haven't spent nearly enough time there yet. But here's cool thing number one:

The last three words on their list are currently, in order,

Workless Recrossed Conquistador

which apart from anything else would make an absolutely awesome band name.

Re:

haha. Tivo is completely broken. Yeah for dorky magic humor.

Hey Scraps,

Yeah, I've been playing since Beta. I played through Ice Age, then was out for Homelands and Alliances, back for Mirage and Visions, then out again until the Urza's cycle, when I was heavily back into it, then out, then back for Judgment, then out, then back about a year and a half ago and playing since.

I don't really play competitively. I played a couple of unsanctioned tournaments at the convention at the Queen Mary in Long Beach, California during Mirage Block, and that's about the extent of my formal experience. I have a DCI number but don't really use it. I play non-P9 (with the exception of my lone Mox) Type 1 almost exclusively. I have 21 decks at the moment, not counting the three I have built for my wife and the precon I got for Christmas, and play weekly or twice weekly -- but I'm not drafting or anything right now.

Were you a Type 1 player at all?

- Josh

Wow I didn't know you liked M:tG so much! Do you play in PTQs? I was once very competitive and still hang out with various MtG people here in New York. -Scraps

Whoa, nice catch. It was Nunberg's second book that I just read, not his first book again. I highly recommend both; I think he's one of our foremost current thinkers.

Hey Josh, just thought you should know, you listed The Way We Talk twice on your recently read books, once at the beginning and once at the end. Did you read it twice? Yeah, I'm a jerk for bringing it up on the forum, but we're all friends here, right? RIGHT? Ho boy.

If you'd like to arrange some sort of viewing, I'm sure that it can be made to happen.

Sure, that would be great. We should all get together anyway, as Dave's in town. I'll move this off-list.

Re: Your Last Two Blog Entries

Chelsea has a bunch of Magic cards that she's not especially interested in keeping, and she's looking to unload them. If you'd like to arrange some sort of viewing, I'm sure that it can be made to happen.

You are correct on both counts; language is a clumsy tool, and Lost in Space is a terrible movie. In other "funny moments with language" stories, my friend Lorien (who has been studying German at Berkeley for the past several years) became very upset when she walked past a newspaper whose headlines called for "kinder executions".

That's a great list, Nathan. I think I prefer Days of the New I, but as I've mentioned before on the site I love The Sickness (sorry, Bob Mike, I know that makes me tragically unhip — but give it a listen some time). The more people mention it, the more I'm sure that Throwing Copper should have been on my list. Jagged Little Pill is such a definitive college album for me — lots of memories. And, of course, In Utero, Ten, and Yield are fantastic, I just couldn't bring myself to have half the songs on my list by two acts. :-)

Hey Josh, Just thought I'd stop by and post my list of my top 25 albums of all time. I took a hint from you and made it alphabetical so here goes.

Nathan's Top 25:
1.Alice In Chains: Nothing Safe
2.Tori Amos: Little Earthquakes
3.Tori Amos: Boys for Pele
4.David Bowie: Earthling
5.Collective Soul: Hints, Allegations and things best left unsaid
6.Creed: Human Clay
7.Days of the New: The Green Album
8.Disturbed: The Sickness
9.Garbage
10.Garbage: Version 2.0
11.Gravity Kills: Perversion
12.Live: Throwing Copper
13.Live: Five (or V if you prefer)
14.Marilyn Manson: Antichrist Superstar
15.Metallica: Metallica
16.Alanis Morrisette: Jagged Little Pill
17.Nine Inch Nails: Broken
18.Nine Inch Nails: The Fragile
19.Nirvana: Nevermind
20.Nirvana: In Utero
21.Pearl Jam: Ten
22.Pearl Jam: Yield
23.Smashing Pumpkins: Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
24.Stone Temple Pilots: Core
25.Rob Zombie: Hellbilly Deluxe

I had a rough time not adding some of the greatest hits albums such as the Depeche Mode: Singles cds or Soundgarden: A-Sides. The only one that I couldn't help but add was the Alice in Chains. I actually compiled the list online while sitting here so I'm sure I've forgotten one or two and will be mad at myself later.

I'm in full agreeance. That Tennyson recording is downright spooky/weird/chilling. Eegads.

Also, I've decided to just go ahead and stop saying "agreement" and go with "agreeance." Thanks to Fred Durst for continuing to be a member of the "STOP BEING ON MY FUCKING SIDE" Club.

That's a great link, Amanda, thanks.

Did some research and found the following link related to early sound recordings (including wax cylinders) if anyone is interested:

http://www.tinfoil.com/earlywax.htm

OK...that Tennyson recording has to be the spookiest thing I've heard lately. I alternated between ROFLMAO and having a chill run up my spine (that whole "from beyond the grave" feeling...eerie). Very interested to know what a wax cylinder is though...?

Hi Josh,

as embarrassing as it is, I thought I would share my top 25 favorite albums since you shared yours. This was quickly done off the top of my head. I'm sure once I check through my CD collection, I'll say "D'oh!" once or twice. I like the mushy stuff. It averages a 4.02 rating. I couldn't find a rating for Concert for George which is primarily Ravi/Anoushka Shankar, Jeff Lynne, Eric Clapton, and Paul McCartney.

Beatles, The- Abbey Road
Cole, Paula- This Fire
Dion, Celine - The Colour of My Love
Erasure- The Innocents
Erasure- Pop! The first 20 Hits
Eurythmics- Greatest Hits
Friends of George Harrison- Concert for George
Gabriel, Peter- Secret World Live
Harrison, George- All Things Must Pass
Harrison, George- Brainwashed
Harrison, George- Living in the Material World
Indigo Girls- Indigo Girls
Indigo Girls- Swamp Ophelia
Live- Mental Jewelry
Loggins, Kenny- Leap of Faith
McCartney, Paul- Flaming Pie
McCartney, Paul - Flowers in The Dirt
McCartney, Paul- Unplugged
McCartney, Paul- Wingspan- Hits & History
McLachlan, Sarah- Fumbling Towards Ecstasy
Penn, Michael- March
Petty, Tom- Wildflowers
Stevens, Cat- Very Best of Cat Stevens
Sting- Nothing Like The Sun
Sting- Ten Summoner’s Tales

You mentioned to me that you liked Throwing Copper over Mental Jewelry. I actually struggled over which album to put on the list. I think I would have to say that Throwing Copper is a better album. However, some of my favorite albums are influenced by where I was and how I felt when I first started listening to them and these albums still bring out feelings that have nothing to do with the album itself. For that reason, I would still have to choose Mental Jewelry for my list.


Amal

Yes, thanks, Evan!

RE: GIF Support Returns to GD

http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/04/07/22/15292...tml?tid=152&tid=155

is that what you're looking for Josh?

Wow, I forgot all about Throwing Copper. Such a great album. bah!

Yeah, I was talking with Jon (Grnegsnspm) on Sunday -- The Eminem Show really needs to be on my list, too. Purple was really close to making my list, as was Throwing Copper.

Here's fifteen. I couldn't possibly do ten more. These things stress me out, because what if I forget something important?, you know? (I love the question mark followed immediately by the comma)

Anyway...

Alice in Chains- Unplugged
The Beatles- Abbey Road
The Darkness- Permission to Land
Eminem- The Eminem Show
Enya- Watermark
Live- Throwing Copper
Neutral Milk Hotel- In The Aeroplane Over The Sea
Pearl Jam- Yield
Pearl Jam- Riot Act
Sequentia- Canticles of Ecstasy (Hildegard von Bingen)
Stone Temple Pilots- Purple
Sublime- 40 oz. Of Freedom
Temple of the Dog- Temple of the Dog
They Might Be Giants- Flood
Weezer- Weezer

I think that, ultimately, Superunknown is a far better album than Down on the Upside. This isn't a list of the best, though; it's a list of our favorites, and I've heard Superunknown way too many times for me to listen to it daily. Yet, somehow, Ten remains on the list. Go figure. The Bends is another case of loving a band's ugly and overshadowed child. Sure, it's pop as fuck, but it's still Radiohead, and it's accessible to people like my mother. Try discussing how genius OK Computer or Kid A is with someone who isn't in college or a music geek, and you'll hit a wall.

Play is the ultimate in background music. I can put it on, go about my business, and just sort of forget that it's there, while occasionally finding myself smiling because it creates something enjoyable. It doesn't require my full attention in order to be useful to me. Oye Como Va is on the list for the same reason.

Weezer is a recent addition to the list. I hadn't listened to it in a long time, but when I saw the ads for the new Deluxe version, I dusted off my old copy, and it held up really well. In the Garage is like a checklist of things that I had in my room (the garage) when I was in high school. Well, I had a different band on the poster, and my guitar wasn't electric, but you get the idea.

I don't think I even own 25 albums but here goes

1. Depeche Mode - Songs of Faith and Devotion
2. Depeche Mode - Black Celebration
3. Eminem - The Emeinem Show
4. Nine Inch Nails - Pretty Hate Machine
5. Beck - Odelay
6. Moby - Play
7. Pearl Jam - Riot Act
8. Metallica - Metallica
9. Radiohead - The Bends
10. Richard Cheese and Lounge Agaist the Machine - I'd like a virgin
11. Me First and the Gimme Gimmes - Take a Break
12. Juno Reactor - Bible of Dreams
13. Crystal Method - Vegas
14. Elton John - Greatest Hits (1974)
15. Various Artists - Spawn Soundtrack
16. Marilyn Manson - Golden Age of Grotesque
17. Rammstein - Sehnsucht
18. Beatles - 1 (Don't actually own it but couldn't pick a single favorite album)
19. Offspring - Smash
20. Various - Mortal Kombat Soundtrack
21. Prodigy - Fat of the Land
22. Michael Jackson - Thriller
23. Aquabats - The Fury of the Aquabats
24. Weird Al Yankovic - Off the Deep End
25. Snoop Dogg - Doggy Style

My AMG score is 4.19 but that doesn't include the Richard Cheese album in the total since they don't have a score for it yet. But, if I join and rate it a 5, my score jumps to 4.22.

Jenn: Great list of albums! Thanks!

Dave: There's a good description of the background of my post here. That source lists the patent expiration date at 18 June, not 7 June, but that too has now passed.

Basically, a nonsense patent on a software algorithm [LZW] has expired. A certain tool [GD] used to support a file format using that algorithm [GIF], but support was removed [after v1.19]. I expected support to be added back immediately after the patent expires, but I haven't seen any evidence of this happening.

Edited by author 07-21-2004 02:49 AM
Mike: Your AMG average is 4.34 -- highest I've seen so far (and I've had some emailed to me that haven't been posted.)

Weezer was oh-so-close to making the list. Yoshimi is great, too, as is (of course) Ten. I live (er, love) The Joshua Tree.

I agree with you (obviously) that The Bends is Radiohead's best.

Play is fantastic, but I cannot get over the sell-out nature of it.

I prefer Superunknown to Down on the Upside.

Great list. Thanks.

Oh boy lists of things!

1. Tori Amos: Little Earthquakes
2. Tori Amos: Scarlet's Walk
3. Atticus: Excuse Me Sir (no amg rating)
4. Cowboy Junkies: The Trinity Session
5. John Denver: Back Home Again
6. Dar William: Mortal City
7. Cat Stevens: Tea for the Tiller Man
8. Simon and Garfunkel: Greatest Hits (1972)
9. Toad the Wet Sproket: Fear
10. Toad the Wet Sproket: Pale
11. Depeche Mode: Some Great Reward
12. Andrew Lloyd Webber: Jesus Christ Superstar soundtrack
13. REM: Automatic for the People
14. REM: New Adventures in Hi-Fi
15. Enya: Memory of Trees
16. Led Zepplin: IV
17. Led Zepplin: II
18. Pearl Jam: No Code
19.Portishead: Portishead
20. Metallica: Metallica
21. Beatles: Rubber Soul
22. Elton John: Greatest Hits (1974)
23. Better Than Ezra: Deluxe
24. Loreena McKennitt: Book of Secrets
25. The Who: Who's Next

My average AMG rating is 4.25.

Josh:

I don't understand your most recent post (18 Jul 2004 01:07:05) at all. Can you help me parse it, or make more sense of it? I'm lost.

Battle of the Favorite Albums (or ALBLUMS, if you prefer):

AK1200: Shoot to Kill
Marley, Bob: Legend
Bowie, David: Hunky Dory
Cash, Johnny: Live at San Quentin
Cash, Johnny: Unchained
Flaming Lips, The: Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots
Mansell, Clint (featuring Kronos Quartet): Requiem for a Dream (Soundtrack)
Me First and the Gimme Gimmes: Blow in the Wind
Moby: Play
Morricone, Ennio: The Legendary Italian Westerns
N.W.A. (and various others): N.W.A. Legacy
Pearl Jam: Ten
Pixies: Surfer Rosa
Puente, Tito: Oye Como Va
Radiohead: The Bends (I'm gonna lose my Radiohead cred for that one, for sure)
Red Hot Chili Peppers: Blood, Sugar, Sex, Magik
Run-DMC: Raising Hell
Size, Roni: In the Mode
Soundgarden: Down on the Upside
Spinal Tap: This Is Spinal Tap (Soundtrack)
Temple of the Dog: Temple of the Dog
U2: Joshua Tree
Vega, Suzanne: Nine Objects of Desire
Waits, Tom: Frank's Wild Years
Weezer: Weezer

Unfortunately, my computer was having some trouble with the AMG site, so I wasn't able to figure out my average score.

I absolutely agree that the mugging turning liberals into neocons joke is bullshit. It isn't true, which is why it's a joke. At the same time, the reason that the joke is so popular is that if you look at the ranks of the neoconservative movement (especially the early members of the movement), you'll find a lot of former liberals who switched sides during the Reagan era (when just about anyone could get elected using a "tough on crime" platform). I can name some names, if anyone wants to look further into the matter.

For the record, and just so there's no misunderstanding, I consider myself to be a liberal (although not strictly so; I was looking forward to voting for McCain in 2000, as he seemed the best candidate available). At the same time, I'm not blind to the fact that the left in this country has some serious problems, and that a lot of what we do seems more effective at soothing our guilt than actually making things better.

As to your mistake; it's understandable. I'm not sure that I could bring myself to piss on Buchanan or Robertson, if either man was on fire. I'm pretty sure that I could spare a little if he wasn't, though.

Edited by author 07-04-2004 04:39 PM
So this guy goes to a surgeon and says "I'd like you to castrate me."

The doctor says "Are you sure?"

The guy says "Yeah, absolutely!"

So they put him under general anaesthesia and perform the operation. And when the guy comes to, the doc says "So, as long as you are going to be sore for a while, do you want us to go ahead and circumcise you, too?"

The guy smacks his forehead and says "Oh, that's what I meant."

I'm a complete dolt. Really, a complete and total idiot. I was confusing Pat Buchanan and Pat Robertson.

OK, everyone laugh for a bit. For real, I'm really embarassed, and I'd laugh too.

OK, done?

Did I mention I was an idiot? Did I mention that I realized only at the approximate moment of never that Matt Cameron and Matt Chamberlain were two different people?

So, mentally tone down the "psychotic motherfuckers" bit.

I'm not a Buchanan apologist: he has said that the death engines at Treblinka "could not … kill anybody". But the isolationist stance makes infinately more sense coming from someone like … well … him.

And you were right on about the "classic conservative" bit.

More on Buchanan here.

Edited by author 07-04-2004 06:59 AM
throwing government money away in order to address, without actually solving, social issues; becoming overly involved in foreign affairs; meddling too much in the lives of the public

Way to use non-weighted words, Mike. :-)

The sense I get from libertarians (small-l or big-L) is that they don't see any real difference between an economic social safety net and "faith-based" initiatives; between actions to prevent massive genocide and imperialist conquests of oil reserves; between regulation of vehicle emissions and legislation against sodomy. This is bizarre to me, to compare these actions (that's why I used non-weighted words myself, such as imperialist....)

he's not an imperialist by any stretch of the imagination.

True. But my Patrick Fucking Buchanan comment was more along the lines of "Good grief, I'm agreeing with Pat Buchanan." It's a Hitler was a veggie and a painter, and he went slightly off the rails from that intial starting point moment.

As much as I oppose current conservative beliefs, I think it is a severe disservice to historic conservative thinking to appoint Buchanan as a "textbook case of the social conservative". It's like saying that Stalin is a "textbook case of the socialist". They are not just politicians, they are psychotic motherfuckers, and if the textbooks cite them as prime cases, the textbooks need to be rewritten. (Read the comment above this one.)

That's my big comment. My little comment has to do with the neoconservative/liberal distinction being whether they have been the subject of violence. This is utter horseshit. I tried to think of a more judicious term, but using one would be a lie. Just like "there are no atheists in foxholes" (Do I need a reference for this? How about Paulson's classic essay?), this is a lie spread by one side. The implication of foxholes is that if atheists were to go to war, we would find out that they are all hypocrites. The implication of mugging is that if liberals were actually exposed to the violence in the country rather than living in ivory towers, they would be conservatives.

I guess I should go out and get mugged, to see how being hit over the head would make me pro death penalty, anti abortion, pro war, pro draft, anti privacy, and so on. Pro gun, I could maybe grant. Pro mandatory sentences? I could grant that with a stretch. But the rest? The chapters and verses of neocon dogma attributed to understanding the nature of violence? Nonsense.

Edited by author 07-03-2004 08:45 PM
Re: Pat Buchanan's Comments on Iraq

Whatever else one might say about Buchanan's beliefs (and I could say a lot), the man is a textbook case of the classic conservative. Considering that, I don't think that his comments ought to be viewed as especially surprising. Buchanan's comments stem from isolationism, and the man's track record is certainly rife with that. The Iraq war is largely a neoconservative baby, and Pat has long been critical of the neocon movement. As the joke goes, "a neoconservative is a liberal who's been mugged", and the neocon movement has managed to import several liberal tendencies (throwing government money away in order to address, without actually solving, social issues; becoming overly involved in foreign affairs; meddling too much in the lives of the public) that classic conservatives like Buchanan find intolerable. The man might be a asshat (I was feeling forgiving today, so I added the "might be"), but he's not an imperialist by any stretch of the imagination.

And we could rewrite 4 to be "Daniel, who slept in the hogshead."

Wow...

I also liked "Sherry, whose butt slept in the sherry butt."

fo shizzle my atheizle

I don't care for the term bright. The liberal people of this country have a hard enough time getting the ear of non-formally educated people because of the assumption that we see ourselves as smarter than them. This assumption is made additionally toward the young, college graduate, non-religious person. Starting with a term that lables oneself as part of the "bright" verus "not-bright" camp is not a good foot to start on for dialouge.

That being said, I really do wish that there was a central term for those of us with a non-religious world view. I want the community that Christians have. I'm extremely jealous of it and I don't think it's fair to have that level of community reserved for those who believe in a god. Names are a powerful thing and one of the first steps towards forming a community is claiming an identity with a name. I wish there were something less offensive than "bright" and with a less negative image than atheist, but if there is going to be a comming together of like minded people in this regard a name can really help that happen.

Or, perhaps we should take a cue from the gay community as the "bright" folks suggest. They have taken back Queer as a positive naming for their life style, maybe we should reclaim atheist. We could even learn from the black community and greet each other as "yo my atheist what's up".

Edited by author 06-17-2004 03:00 PM
Thank you, Duncan, for enlightening me. Looks like I was completely taken in by it.

It would be great if there were no pre-interview: having them show up in some hovel with a guy trying to pass off aluminium foil swans from mediocre French restaurants as "continental metal avian sculptures".

(The post under discussion)

RE: Cash in the Attic - it isn't as impressive as you think, the spotting a piece of pottery and knowing everything. It is telly of course, but there is research and planning done in advance before the filming.

Basically, an application to appear on the show is made which includes details of items people believe will be worth money. Those lucky enough will receive a follow up phone call. If the shows producers plan to proceed, a researcher and valuer will visit the family to do an appraisal of what they have and its potential value.

So, although it appears like they are just there on the day rummaging in a house, finding gems as if nobody knew they were there, it isn't so impressive. Understandable that they would make sure it was worth filming beforehand, but a shame as I'd love to see them turn up at someone's house to find it was full of utter crap, worth nothing at all.

I've got six new gmail invites. Nobody wants them? I got zero response last time. Forget "worth their weight in gold" -- compare the weight in electrons to the bottle of whisky I got for one of them, and they're worth orders of magnitude more than antimatter.

i want a smoke and a hat...ok, just a smoke

The infamous "Straw Hat Spam", of course. Watch out for the "Straw Hat Spam" virus. It will turn your PC into a "Straw Hat". And by that I mean "Smoldering Ember".

You have been warned.

ummm...wtf?

What I love is the broadband add at the bottom of the email...

Edited by author 06-10-2004 04:05 AM
(Well, it won't let me post the message because it's the "same as the last message" -- the one that was accidentally posted in (ahem) my wife's name. So, blah blah blah, some text to confuse the diff engine.)

Whoops, forgot to post the updates. mcgees.org is up and running. So are the other sites, except for ScotchFinder, which is coming along and frankly needs a code re-write using newly available perl packages.

Evan, did you note that the BBC site specifically disclaims any involvement in 4-1-9 emails that might link to the story? Must be more than just you who got the email. What if multiple people respond, what are they going to do with all the money? Divide it?

hehe...I just got 419 email...

From: sha_shari09@tiscali.co.uk
Date: 2004/06/09 Wed AM 04:24:06 EDT
To: sha_shari09@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: CONTACT PHONE NUMBER
 
FROM:Abacha`s Family
Lagos,
Nigeria.


ATTN:Sir

I am Mohamed Abacha, the son of the late Gen. Sanni Abacha former Nigerian
Military Head of State who died mysteriously as a result of Cardiac Arrest.
Since after my Father's death, my family is under restriction of movement
and that not withstanding, we are being molested,policed and our Bank Account
both here and abroad are being frozen by the Nigerian Civilian Government.


Furthermore, my mother is in detention by the Nigerian Government for more
interrogation about my fathers assets and some vital document. Following
the recent discovery of my Father's Bank Account by the Nigerian Government
with Swiss Bank in which the huge sum of US$700 Million and Dutch 450 Million
was lodged.

However, there is US$38 Million which my father wisely deposited in my
name in a europe finance and security company which has not been discovered
by the Nigerian governnent.I am therefore appealing to you for your urgent
assistant to move this money into your bank account where I believe it will
be safe since I cannot leave the country due to the restriction of movement
imposed on the members of my family by the Nigerian Government.

However,you can contact for effective completion of this transaction. You
can visit the websites below to confirm the authentication of my letter:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/877113.stm
http://www.usafricaonline.com/chido_cochranabacha.html
http://www.marcosbillions.com/marcos/Dictators%20Abacha.htm
http://www.afrol.com/News2002/nig023_abacha_reactions.htm

Conclusively, we have agreed to set aside 10%of the total sum for settlement
of expenses incured both local and international,30% to you the foreigner,while
60% to be held on trust by you until we can decide on a suitable business
investment in your country subsequent to our free movement by the Nigerian
Government.
If this offer is acceptable to you,then you should immediately upon
the receipt of this mail forward your private phone and fax number
to me to enable us discuss further on the transaction and the
modalities of its execution.
Bye for now and stay blessed.

Best Regards
Mohammed Abacha.





__________________________________________________
Broadband from an unbeatable £15.99!

http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadban...tml?code=SM-NL-11AM

You are supposed to ask for 419 dollars.

Re: post on main page--

Your Apache 2.0 httpd.conf is totally fuczored. Send me thirty dollars and I'll fix it for you right away. I am royalty in Nigeria.

OK, if this message shows up, I have gotten lynx running on the new mcgees.org server. Long installation process, but it's going well.

re: Clear Channel

What? Why would it bother you that they banned certain artists (Dixie Chicks) for speaking out against the war? Why would it bother you that "indecent and obscene" content not be allowed on the air? I don't get it...does it look like censorship to you? Why would a major media conglomerate selectively choosing what you should hear make a difference? Personally I love bands like "Big Brother" and "The 1984 Experience" and "Right-Hand Puppet!" I hate choosing, it's so much easier for someone else to do it for me.

I had never watched Curb Your Enthusiasm before. Having it compared to anything with Ben Stiller in it however makes me want to avoid it at all cost.


I HATE Ben Stiller...so very much.

I'm ganna have to go ahead and sorta disagree with you there David...

This is a kind of humor that I've never found funny. The kind of joke that makes you squirm in your seat and think to yourself, "Nobody is this stupid...and I work tech support."

I call it "embarrassment humor." I classify jokes of the sort where person A does something stupid or something stupid happens to them. Person(s) B notices. Person A has a chance to correct the problem, but for some reason decides (matter of principle, stubborn, just plain stupid) that instead of fixing the problem with a short "I'm sorry," or "Not my fault. Here's what really happened," or "That's untrue," they instead follow it up with something even more stupid.

While more slapstick than Larry David, Ben Stiller is currently at the top of this kind of humor (but he's getting better and moving away from it a bit).

Meet the Parents: Holy crap! How can anybody make it through an entire scene in that movie?
CYE: makes Meet the Parents look like Hamlet.
Seinfeld: had some very funny moments, but more often than not it was the cast, not the writing.

"The kids then told their father that the man in the car behind them was pretending to shoot at them. That's not funny."

I actually disagree. I haven't seen that episode, but I laughed at that description. A literal LOL.

I tend to think that I have a very dry sense of humor. Perhaps I'm fooling myself. I have now read that The Office description 3 times and still have no idea what the fuck the joke is.

Yeah, very different. I watched the HBO special that was the springboard off of which CYE was based (casting Cheryl Hines as his wife and so forth.) Where I decided I loathed it was the episode when Larry was approached by a man who demanded to know if he was Jewish. Larry and Cheryl were incredibly offended. It turned out the man was also Jewish, and was taking Larry to task over playing Wagner. They had a very uncomforable scene. Then later David tracked down a girl who had done something to him, maybe toilet paper his house or something. And it turns out that the girl's the guy's daughter. He accused her, and the father asked her if she did what she was accused of. She denied it, so he turned to Larry and said "She said no", as if that closed the matter.

Then there was the "Like you wear that top so people will look at your shoes" scene.

But the point where I truly wished him a fiery death was the scene where kids in the back seat of a station wagon started playing "shooting" games with Larry out the back window, using their thumbs and forefingers as pistols. Larry playfully joined in, like has been done for hundreds of years. The kids then told their father that the man in the car behind them was pretending to shoot at them.

That's not funny. Fuck Larry David.

But The Office, on the other hand, damn. David Brent hires a management consultant to come and give a lame seminar to his employees about customer relations.

From the BBC website:

The training is underway. Rowan tells the staff that he will be leading the session, under David, and he kicks off with a somewhat dated video. But, as David points out, "a good idea is a good idea forever."

After the video, Rowan and David start "the dreaded role play." Rowan acts the part of a very bad hotel manager, and David is the complaining guest. There is no right or wrong in this scenario, but David manages to faze Rowan [it turns out his complaint is "I think there's been a rape up there!] So they reverse roles. When Rowan complains that his room, 362, is a mess, David replies there is no room 362. [He turns to his employees and explans the moral:] "Sometimes the complaints will be false."

Here we differ. I watched two episodes of The Office and plan on sending both Series 1 & 2 back to Netflix without watching any more episodes. I don't think it's funny at all.

I really enjoyed watching the first season of Curb Your Enthusiasm and am looking forward to season 2 being released.

Hmm...

Edited by author 05-24-2004 02:55 AM
re /m338,

Well, since Fawlty Towers, probably. And then Seinfeld made hundreds of millions of dollars off the same sentiment. But I find The Office infinitely more funny than Curb Your Enthusiasm which I heartily loathe (and I cannot watch The Office for more than ten minutes because it's too uncomfortable. But with Curb Your Enthusiasm, I just end up wishing Larry David would die in a fiery car crash.)

I really liked The Cell — I saw it in the theater as well. I thought it was beautifully realized.

re /m337: I walked out about ten minutes into the film, when the man was hanging himself on meat-hooks. I decided that I didn't want any more pictures like that in my head.

My friend Owen, after watching episodes of Curb Your Enthusiasm and The Office:

"Since when is awkward the new funny?"

Just curious...why and at what point did you walk out of The Cell?

While I didn't dig on the whole movie I found the visual stimulation more then enough to keep me in my seat.

Starship Troopers piss me off too, though I didn't walk out. I wish they had used a different title, that way it would be easier for someone to make a movie that's actually based on the book.

I hate to say, but I fell asleep during Fellowship LOTR...it was the midnight screening...and that movie is long

I actually did walk out of There's Something About Mary for just those same reasons.

Movies I've walked out of:
1. See above.
2. The Cell
3. Gigli
4. If I had seen Death to Smoochy in the theaters, I would have walked out.

I'm sure there are more... I might think of some...

Movies I would have walked out of, but was threatened/convinced to stay (not movies that, in retrospect, I wish I had walked out on but movies that I attempted to leave and was forced/made/begged to stay):
1. Pearl Harbor
2. Hellboy
3. The Shipping News
4. Love, Actually

I'm also very surprised, Josh, that you fell asleep during The Trilogy: Part 1. It's my favorite of the three, and I found it thrilling the whole way through. Interesting.

I've never walked out of a film. The only one I've ever fallen asleep in was Apollo 13 and that's just because I was sick and doped up on flu medicine.

Mostly I think it's because I don't find almost anything really offensive to the point of making me not be comfortable watching it. The only movies I've considered walking out of were Something About Mary because it was one of the most stupid unfunny movies I've seen and Matrix Revolutions because I was afriad that if they tried to cram one more cliche into that movie it might explode and I could get Keanu shrapnel inbedded in my eye.

Movies I've walked out of:
Starship Troopers

Movies I fell asleep during:
Blood Numbers

In general I see far fewer movies than Josh and well than most people my age. I usually only go to movies that I know something about and that I want to see. The only exception to this has been during the summers when I wanted to get away to a cool place. As these movies were in the middle of the afternoon I wasn't sleepy and I was paying for air conditioning so I didn't leave just on account of the movie being crappy. I only left Starship Troopers because I found the violence so offensive, and I never would have gone to see it had the advertising campaign been more clear about just how violent it was going to be. I did, however, find one really great movie one summer when I was going for an escape from the heat, Three Kings. I really enjoyed that film. So I wonder what movies you guys might found and really enjoyed when you weren't goign to the theater for just the movie.

Al Franken is my new hero.

I have a confession: I don't read anymore unless it's online. I'm sorry. I just can't bring myself to do it at home...staring at words all day, just to stare at more when I get home. No, thank you.

I do, on the other hand, love audio books. Unabridged audio (especially from the author) is great. I just started in on Lies and it's got to be one of the best things I've ever heard. I mean, Holy Crap! It's great. Just based on the first hour I already know I'm going to be purchasing every one of his books. He's just as smug as Bill Maher, and even more funny.

Michael Berg responded, "It goes further than Donald Rumsfeld. It's the whole Patriot Act, it's the whole feeling of this country that rights don't matter anymore because there are terrorists about.

"Well, in my opinion 'terrorist' is just another word like 'communist' or 'witch,' and it's a witch hunt, and this whole administration is just representing something that is not America, not the America I grew up in."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/12/iraq.berg/index.html

...how right he is

I want a friend invite to their ipo

The first and second emails I receive requesting Gmail addresses will receive the two friend invitations I am allotted.

Lois: Shame on you Peter! Scaring the kids with your nuclear holocaust nonsense.
Peter: (laughs) You said nuclear. Its nucular dummy, the S is silent.

Audition is such a messed up movie. I mean, really. That kidikidikidikidikidi noise she made stayed in my brain for months after seeing that. Thank you for reminding me. Very slow to begin with but oh so creepy once you get into it.

re /m317 There was also quite a funny joke in Family Guy (s1e10 DaBoom).

Well, my reference seems rather pedestrian next to m/326

Edited by author 04-22-2004 07:46 PM
Re /m317, Amanda, linguist Geoff Nunberg (a frequent contributor to National Public Radio's "Fresh Air" program) has a book coming out next month called Going Nucular, which is of course an intentional joke. When Terry Gross mentioned the title on the air, she implored "Please do not write in to correct me. That's really the title!"

hmm...this has gotten much more complicated than I anticipated. I also can't believe I mixed up Star Wars movies, I guess that's what happens when you wake up at 5am to drive someone to the airport.

David: next time you're in SD dinner is on me...

I hereby offer to act as a proxy for Bob Mike. Evan: you can buy me dinner.

Don't bother; I no longer require food or sleep.

Fair enough...I owe you dinner.

What I'm arguing is that the studio got involved with Empire, took a certain amount of control away from Lucas, and the film was vastly improved because of it. Many of the Empire's greatest scenes never would have made it into the film if test-screened so much that Lucas couldn't ignore the results. Ewoks didn't show up until Jedi, and they were Lucas, through and through. As Episodes 1 and 2 show, that man shouldn't be given a completely free hand to do what he wants. I feel the same way about Mike Myers and Robin Williams; both talented men who need someone to step in and tell them when they aren't being funny (which is most of the time, these days).

Speaking of not being funny... Josh, I thought that Onion article was hilarious. Definitely in poor taste, but extremely funny (for me, at least).

ewoks or wookies...you're really going to try to argue for ewoks?

Evan,

Four words:

The Empire Strikes Back

Four more words:

You owe me dinner.

re m/314 that's the one. I recently bought it on DVD, having remembered how much I liked the show when Fox was screwing it over...I mean airing it. After having watched it in a more coherent fashion I’m somehow obsessed.

There's a thought process at work in almost every TV executive office that I've been unable to figure out. It somehow involves making 'changes' so that 'more people' will watch the show. It seems to me that every time a network starts to interfere with a show they just screw it up (add a character, make something more 'sexy', etc.). In the case of Firefly it began with them not running the actual pilot episode, choosing instead to run a hastily re-written third episode. Fox proceeded to run almost every episode thereafter out of order.

I have a friend here in San Diego that works at channel 10, an ABC affiliate. He complains of a different problem: that shows are moved. Apparently the ABC brass thinks it a wonderful strategy to take a successful show and move it around, not only in timeslot but day as well, to boost the ratings of other shows. The brass believe somehow that when people tune in for show X and find that it’s not running that night they will stay tuned in for show Y. Personally I would just change the channel to something else. I think that everybody that reads these posts is more than smart enough to figure out why this is a stupid idea (you’ll probably find ones that I hadn’t thought of yet).

Firefly has taken a ‘cult’ following. I’m not sure how much I like being in a cult, but as long as I avoid the punch I should be OK. Fox has since decided to allow Josh Whedon to make a movie from the series (including all of the original cast). While it’s great news for all the fans and cast I can only think of how bad they screwed up Whedon’s first major big screen production (Buffy the Vampire Slayer). I think we remember it and how different it was from the TV series (read here: studio forced changes were made).

How can studios keep forcing creators/writers to change their work? If anybody can name a show/movie that was improved by such changes I’ll buy them dinner. (You’ll at least have to go hit for hit in a debate)

RE: The word is LOSE

Ok, here's my pet peeve. Since when is nuclear spelled "nucular"? I can't understand why 90% of the people that say that word pronounce it like "NU-CU-LAR".

ARGGGH.

I keep meaning to take my Christmas gift cards to Borders and buy season 3. I introduced David to it last summer (seasons 1 & 2, which I bought) -- he loved it (err -- right, Dave?)

I saw the first episode, and didn't like it. I saw the last episode, and was interested in seeing more. I didn't see anything that happened in between.

By the way, I've just noticed that Season 4 of Homicide has been released on DVD. I, like an idiot, still don't have Season 3. I! Must! Catch! Up!

Quite possibly the best drama in television history. Certainly one of the best casts ever assembled.

This one? No, I hadn't until now. I guess it was a short-lived Joss Whedon series, and that it's available on DVD.

Has anybody else ever heard of the TV series Firefly?

If so, what were your thoughts?

Yeah, I knew they would disappear. It was for the loyal readers; I don't really want that silly thing hanging around for too long, which is why I didn't cache a copy.

I'm going with the "three random faces" algorithm. If the matched faces ever looked anything alike, there might be an argument, but really, the three people you matched?

Transcendent comedy.

It's my face-recognition page. As they only last 48 hours, Josh, your two sessions are gone.

Josh, swearing warps the minds of our children. It's unchristian, is what it is.

David's reference.

When they aired that on TNN, they apparently changed it to "Give me the keys, you fairy godmother!" This is the same airing where they went ahead and showed the brain splatter.

Give me the car.

Uh... I don't know if that will help your financial situation, but, uh... it would help mine. So uh, yeah...

"Give me the keys, you fucking cocksucker! What the fuck?"

Ahh...I was missing some backstory there. My bad.

Thanks for the link. I need to brush up on my ghetto slang.

My old cars, the American ones, were called "pimp mobile", or "the pimp", by my college roommates, and the nicknames stuck. They weren't complete junkers in disrepair, despite my description, they were seventies-era boats that looked like they deserved fuzzy dice hanging from the rearviewmirror. So I guess I've upgraded from a "pimp mobile" to a "pimp ride". This might reflect changing tastes among pimps over the past eight years. :-)

/m304 "...just collision on the pimps."

you mean hoopdi

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hoopdi&f=1

You're right, I forgot insurance cost differences, which are even more pronounced because I have comprehensive insurance on the Audi and just collision on the pimps. Then there's registration fees, which are separated by about a factor of 4.

The hybrid is very tempting. My mother just got one, and it's wonderful.

Re: pimp ride or hoopdi

How the hell are you putting 27,500 miles on your car every year?!? Geez...I didn't realize you were commuting to Seattle every day. Thank god you're not leasing.

You forgot insurance costs as well. I'm betting you didn't have to pay as much for you $1,200 car as you do for your Audi. I'm guessing the insurance on your Audi is something like $1,600/year. About even with mine. Your car is worth more, but you're married and have a kid (btw, why does this matter to insurance companies? Like a ring on one finger is going to ward off the constant flow of, what I can only assume to be, either visually impaired or mentally deficient drivers.) But the insurance on an absolute junker has got to be more like $400-600. So, there's another possible saving in the future.

You could always look at selling your car, paying off the loan and getting a hybrid, especially with the miles you're putting on it.

I am now getting da e-mail updizzles.

"We are delighted that Pecker will be leading the way"

the five minutes I spent laughing at this is proof that no matter how old I get I will laugh at the most juvenile humor

"Rudi Pecker assumes position"

Oh yeah. I signed up for that too. I am also not getting any e-mails.

~Dave

Wait, actually I suppose "I'm not getting e-mails either" is a proper(er) negation. Tech week. Mulligan.

Nope, wasn't notified of the test post

Maybe it's just a problem on my end but I signed up to be notified when your page is updated and I'm not getting any emails or anything(i love using "but","and", and "or" in the same sentence). Anywho, just thought I'd see if anyone else had this problem or if it's just that AOL doesn't want me to see some mail.

you'd be surprised with the number of people like that here at stanford. except with them, they drink, smoke and still eke out the A... amazing.

Oh man, I can't believe you remember Time Trax. I loved that show. It was so very bad, in retrospect, but, as Patton might say, "God help me, I love it so."

I watched that Century City show before you got home when I was visiting Jen, as she may have told you. I thought it was...well...a lawyer drama. It's like executives can just take some show and pitch it as "...of the future" and get away with it. "I got this great idea for a show. It's a lawyer drama. I know what you're thinking, there are already a flood of lawyer dramas, but this one's different. It's a lawyer drama...of the future!" That and if you're going to make an "...of the future" show, it should be far enough into the future so that your tech might match up. I mean, the Lee May character is around, let's say she's 28. That means she was made...2 years ago. We don't have that kind of tech now, let alone 2 years ago. However, even with all my gripes, it was pretty fun to watch. That may just have been because of the confusing relationship of clones.

Re: Bush at Church...

That's funny, because just last night there was a piece on the news about the Bush family's visit to historic Ford's Theatre. The entire time the thing was playing, all I could think was "If only..."

re: /m290 & /m292:

Seriously? I hated it. I almost didn't finish it, but I thought that maybe at the end they would suddenly reveal that it was shitty on purpose, or something.

No dice.

Ick.

I concur. Death to Smoochy was a fabulous film.

re: /287

What is it about brunettes that solve crime? Can they get any hotter?

What is it about savagely beating children’s show hosts? Can it get any more fun?

Absolutely, I've got taste! For instance, I loved, LOVED Death to Smoochy. Thought it was one of the best films of the year.

re: m/287

Me too. I also like Edward Norton, and Death to Smoochy still blows.

I'm not judging. Come on, I like Survivor, I can hardly make fun of anyone else's viewing habits. It just surprised me because normally you have, you know, taste. :)

Enzo, upright should be fine on the bottles.

Well, I like Jill Hennessy.

If I have several bottles of scotch and don't drink them all at once (in other words, I plan to keep them for five years or more), should they be stored on their side, like wine, so the cork stays moist, os standing up? Does it matter?

lucignano@hotmail.com

Josh-- you like Crossing Jordan? For reals, though?

Edited by author 03-05-2004 04:16 AM
As the world's greatest advocate for sex and violence, I think that it's time that I weighed in on the issue. It's late, and I'm tired, so I'll just quickly cover the basics. I might elaborate more later, if anyone is interested...

1.) Fringe elements aside, I can see why people would be bothered by the Janet Jackson episode. Whenever a parents' group comes forward with a complaint about how television markets inappropriate material to children, someone points out that television is not a babysitter, and parents should be responsible for deciding what children watch (and rightly so). In order for anyone to be able to make that sort of decision, however, they have to have a clear idea of what it is that they should expect from a program. If a parent decides that it's fine for a child to view violence, but not sex, that's the parent's choice. No parent allowed their child to watch the Superbowl without expecting violence to be broadcast; the violent elements of the game were announced well in advance. The nudity, on the other hand, was not a part of the advertised product, which took the decision out of the hands of the parents.

2.) This wasn't simply the exposure of a nipple; it was the exposure of a nipple in a sexual context. The "dirty, filthy tittie" reference that Josh makes comes from a David Cross routine (that I'm sure that most of us are familiar with) where Cross points out Ashcroft's mad obsession with covering the breasts on a statue of Justice. The key difference here is that the breast of Justice is presented in a non-sexual manner, Jackson's breast was presented quite differently. On the statue of Justice, the breast is an afterthought. On Jackson, it became the focal point. The use of the Cross routine here misses the entire point of what the comedian was trying to say.

3.) Football isn't violence disguised as sport; football is violence as
sport. It's not as though the NFL is sneaking the physically destructive aspects of the game in through the back door. They not only acknowledge it, they flaunt it. Some people have a problem with that, some people don't. Although football bores me into a coma, I happen to fall into the latter category.

4.) I have no objection to exposing children to limited amounts of controlled violence. In fact, I encourage it. When I was about five, I begged my parents to enroll me in wrestling classes. They did so, and I was treated to both ends of some fairly spectacular ass-whuppin's as a result (being much taller than most children my age, I did very well when wrestling within my age category, but very poorly when wrestling in my weight category, where I regularly faced children several years older than myself). I feel as though the experience taught me some valuable lessons (as my friend Chad puts it, "nothing teaches the worth of humility like being humbled by the fists of another human being"), and I managed to maintain friendly relations with a number of people who regularly attempted to flatten me. The ability to remain competitive without demonizing one's opponent is an important skill. I learned it through wrestling, and I think that football, if closely overseen by an adult, has equal ability to teach it. God knows that the kids that I wrestled with took defeat more gracefully than a lot of role-players/card gamers that I've dealt with. I suspect that this goes back to the whole "being humbled by the fists of another human being" thing that I mentioned, and you might want to keep it in mind the next time you spot some acne-scarred teen screaming and throwing a fit about how his opponent's deck contains more Plague Rats than regulation allows.

5.) As much as I hate the religious right, it doesn't seem fair point to them exclusively in terms of overreaction. The (supposedly) secular media did an impressive job of shoving this "story" down our throats. I usually manage to avoid the PTL networks, but I couldn't turn on the television for weeks after the Superbowl without hearing someone loudly objecting to the halftime stunt. While [sarcasm] Christ's brave soldiers [/sarcasm] certainly provide us with the best blogger material, due to their almost gleeful ignorance of basic spelling and grammar, they're hardly the only ones making a bigger deal out of all of this than there needs to be.

In closing, I'd like to say that I feel that there is a place for violence in our society, and a place for sex, and both deserve to be celebrated. However, just as I object to people being subjected to violent material without their prior consent, I also object to the unannounced presentation of sexual material. In my opinion, people should be free to view whatever they want, but they should also have the freedom not to view things. Surprising people with this sort of thing only gives ammunition to those who want to not only protect us from the things that we don't want to see, but to protect us from the things that we do.

I'm not sure that that last sentence came out correctly, but it's late.

PS - I'm pretty sure that Janet's sun burst nipple shield was a Good Art design. I used to sell those things, and it looked really familiar, but I haven't seen it close up enough to say for sure.

PPS - This all went a lot longer than I expected it to. Good thing I decided to keep it focused on a few key points, huh?

PPPS - Shut up.

I think the problem lies in our obsession with sex. We have, as a nation, a huge madonna/whore complex. We want our women to be pure and virginal, yet carnal and sexy at the same time. Britney Spears' appeal wasn't that she was a great singer, but that she could personify the catholic school girl (innocent yet sexual). Now that she's crossed over into the more purely sexual realm, she's become less popular. So when Janet's boob falls out, she goes too far. It is too far, not because we (collective male we) didn't want to see it, but because we did and feel we shouldn't.

I feel an entire tirade about christianity and morality and what's wrong with people coming on and I haven't even talked about Kill Bill yet, which I wanted to. Essentially what Josh said. Kill Bill is a glorification of violence that tells you straight up "this is a glorification of violence." Where as football hides it's violence behind sport so as to be accessable to anyone and never questioned. Like the commodity fetishism of violence. *sigh* I need to quit reading Marx for class.

OK, I'll be gentle. I'll even have my gentle preface be to say that I don't need to convince anyone. mcgees.org is my bully pulpit, and I have editorial control over it, but no one needs to change his opinion based on what I say.

Let me just address a couple minor points -- if you want to follow up, great; if you want me to tackle some of the major points, I'll consider it; if you want to let the thing drop and agree to disagree, that's fine too. I don't know if I could kick your ass in this debate, but I really don't have a desire to, despite my provocative posts (not my last post, though -- that was mostly supposed to be funny.)

The minor points:

1. I think we disagree on Kill Bill. I think Kill Bill is a celebration of violence, albeit a sophisticated, painfully self-aware celebration. Why this is relevant I suppose should be left to one of the Major Points that are rumored to exist.

2. No one, anywhere, ever, has claimed that Kill Bill is proper fare for children, families, and groups of knitting churchladies. That's where my disdain for the second petitioner I mentioned originates: a gladiatorial spectacle interspersed with advertisements featuring a woman being burnt by ignited horse farts is appropriate, but a dirty, filthy tittie is an abomination.

I have a difficult time attempting to judge form and content separately. How po-mo of me, right?

OK, look. I suppose football can be viewed as a celebration of violence. I understand your argument on this, Josh. Kill Bill can also be viewed as a celebration of violence.

Now I am not chiding you for loving Kill Bill or for rating it a 10 at IMDB-- I loved it, and I also rated it a 10 at IMDB-- but by your own admission of your high expectations for films, that means you think it's one of the best films ever made.

Josh, it is end to end violence.

But it's so much more than that! I agree with you! I also think that football is so much more than that. Sure you can distill it down to being just about violence, but I think you would call anyone who made that argument about Kill Bill ignorant. And you'd be right.

The mastery of cinema exhibited in well orchestrated fight scenes is much like the beauty I see in Bill Belichick's defensive sets. The perfection of the film's movement through space gives me the same thrill I got from watching Bill Walsh's offenses.

And there is beauty in the perfect cinematography-- but there is also almost unbelievable beauty in the physical perfection exhibited when Joe Montana hit Jerry Rice 50 yards down the field, dropping the ball into his outstretched hands.

They are not the same thing, but they are both awesome.

One could say that Kill Bill is a celebration of violence. It is not. Neither, truly, is football.

[P.S. I'm really nervous to post this. I've spent a long time trying to figure out just how you're going to completely immolate and dismantle my argument, and, honestly, it's intimidating. So, umm, anyway, be gentle at least when you kick my ass. :)]

Sure, it's still funny. It just needs explanation now. The post Evan was referencing was a spam post advertising teen porn, or at least seemed like teen porn from the urls (I assumed it was NSFW [= Not Suitable For Work]). It began as Evan's post did, with the words "I agree!"

However, I think Evan's .gov url could be real, judging by the current occupant of the White House.

awww...my last post isn't funny since the porno post was removed

I agree!

My websites are:
www.stupidpeoplethatspamporn.com
www.buckshotadvertising.org
www.onlyidiotswouldclickhere.net
www.peoplearesheepwholiketolookatsexpicturesandarestupidandwholooklikebutts.gov

Oops, sorry. It's on mcgees.org now.

So where is this Pearl Jam deck, anyway? If you don't feel like posting it you can always email me it.

Classic!

I do so love the internet.

Yes! Double reminder to sign me out. I got two e-mails from myself this morning, which was weird.

Yes! By the way, you're signed in as David. I read the question before your sig and thought "I can't believe David remembers that! He was barely born yet!" Makes more sense that it's you.

Would you like to tell the story?

So, Josh - I've been in isolation recently (read no internet) so I'm catching up tonight. I read your explanation about polymers - and my chem is too old - would "long-chain hydrocarbons" be polymers? Susan

I agree about the Hollow Tree. When I revisited the card after finding the notebook last year I had the same thoughts, but decided to publish it as-is. I've made the change you suggested.

I've changed Perimeter Defense to W/U, which I agree is more in flavor.

The concept of the Orangutan was that it was completely incautious. It was strong, and if blockers started to gang up on it it would get pissed (i.e. stronger), but that it had no strategy so that pretty much any three blockers could work together to off it using just a modicum of strategy. I've decided to use a $5 word and call it "Precipitate Orangutan", which may or may not be an improvement.

If you (or anyone) can figure out a way to break Scintillate, I'd love to hear it. Please keep working on it and I'll try myself. I don't know of anything that can bring an instant back repeatedly, so the obvious break (Storm mechanic) doesn't seem to work.

The flavor of Sharkhawk was that it was supposed to be able to eat a Killer Whale. But now there's a Great Whale, too, so to keep fully in flavor it should be able to eat that as well. Accordingly I've dropped it to a 3/4, increased the activation cost, and increased the bonus to make it Great Whale-proof as well as whale-lethal. It still might be too strong (that islandwalk is nasty) so maybe it needs an upkeep cost or something.

I've incorporated your suggestions for Spectral Form.

I found another list of cards (really old) while cleaning my study Sunday. Maybe I'll post them. Warning, though, a couple are pretty bad (maybe I won't post those.)

Cool, I didn't know you would respond to the others. Let me compose a reply.

Good call on the Escape Artist mechanic. Perhaps this is better:

Escape Artist
{2}{U}{U}
Creature -- Wizard
{T}: Return Escape Artist to owner's hand.
{T}: Escape Artist phases out.
{T}: Place Escape Artist on top of owner's library.
If Escape Artist would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, reveal Escape Artist and shuffle it into its owner's library instead.
1/2

It incorporates the Legacy Weapon / Serra Avatar mechanic. It also helps fend against abusing the card in combos that have the card recurrently bouncing back from your graveyard. It makes for an interesting defense against Millstone or its ilk, though. Not only would a milled Escape Artist not count as a milled card, you could tap Escape Artist as a fast effect to put it on top of your library to protect your library.

Hill Wurm is, I agree, difficult to get to work, and I intended it as a niche card and probably a sideboard card. It would be dangerous as a blocker, as you are unlikely to be able to get it out without Forests and Mountains. I hadn't though of it being Flung, Ruptured, or having its Reins Grabbed, all of which are in red.

Sharkhawk is, I think, too cheap by today's standards. Then again, I thought that about Exalted Angel, which they actually made....

Scintillate I really like. I've always wanted a non-permanent that costs 0 mana, and this card seems like it could generate some weird and cool effects.

I'm always amused when I design a card which is then designed by Wizards -- it gives me some reassurance that my cards aren't completely crazy. I like their name (Crystal Quarry) more than mine.

Now for part 2 of the review (accidentally hit submit)

The Hollow Tree is a neat, if outdated, idea. My only complaint would be that as a creature type Treefolk, Hollow Tree sounds too much like he's hiding in a dead creature. Maybe either change he name or turn it into an enchantment that you can pay to use. "Everyone into the trees!"

Llanowar Mystic is another card that would easily fit into most green decks and helps Birds of Paradise more than his elven brothers in terms of effectiveness.

Perimeter defense is a great card. I mean, who doesn't use at least some tapping creatures? I would think about making it White and Blue instead of black due to Blue's inherent love of tapping things and White's love of making things even.

Prismatic Vale apparently already got made so we can see how good that is.

I'm not quite sure why the Orangutan commits suicide if more than two decide to block from a flavor standpoint but it does help to make the card more balanced. I never was a fan of rampage.

I'm not sure how I feel about Scintillate. It seems rather harmless at first but with a 0 casting cost and the right combo, I'm sure it could be broken. Just can't think of how yet.

As for the Sharkhawk, interesting idea with a few tweaks needed. A 4/4 flyer for 5 mana with versatility might be a little much. I'd make it a 3/3 or 3/4. Also, just from a current standpoint, I'd make it creature type bird and lose the legend status.

Spectral Form seems a little excessive in that is has phasing and can tap to phase as well. Perhaps tap and phase target creature and itself. Kind of a "Dead or alive you're coming with me" idea to it.

Oh yeah, and the green blitzer is one of the one's I tweaked. So very fun.

Alright, on to the older cards that you created.

Crystalline Moth is defintely a solid uncommon for green. While small, it can distract an angel or block a djinn and live to tell the tale.

Escape Artist, both mechanic and flavor wise, is my favorite of this batch, I would either make the cost to return from graveyard more expensive or make him reshuffle into the deck for the same reason green flyers have to be expensive. You're dipping into another colors territory and so it should be costly or slightly different.

Hill Wurm is a definite pain in the ass to make work. While cheap, it's main use will most likely be blocker unless you find a nice combo like Arena or (I can't remember the name) the one that lets you sack a creature and deal it's power in damage to player or creature.

Jon, thanks so much for the feedback. It was very helpful. I've incorporated most of your changes. Food Web is now green/black. I was hoping it would have some synergy with another green/black card, and I found a one possibility: Death Mutation from Apocalypse, which destroys a nonblack creature and puts a number of Saprolings into play equal to its casting cost. You could then go feed the Saprolings to your Food Web if you wanted, to upgrade them from chump blocker status or make your Altar of Dementia, Carrion, Diamond Valley, etc. more efficient.

I've changed Hamsterwheel to just be a removed-from-game effect, but the wording is by necessity somewhat clumsy in order to match the replacement effect wording that now pervades Oracle. I've also changed the mana-adding mechanic slightly.

Lemming Cloak now works if you have any land card. True, this will be the case 99.9% of the time, but it helps to retain a bit of the flavor I intended.

Rajah's Trunk was originally designed in 1994 as an Arabian Nights-era Flying Carpet / Sandals of Abdallah artifact. Equipment is a much better paradigm for this card, however. I can't decide which I like more, Rajah's Trunk or Wizards' own Loxodon Warhammer, which I suppose is a good sign. And it was of course designed to take more advantage of Elephant Graveyard, one of my favorite Magic cards of all time. In fact, I think you've seen my elephant deck, which can kick major ass when you drop a first-turn Rogue Elephant.

The Reforestation / Foratog combo is great, and one I hadn't seen. Powerful but not too powerful, I believe.

I wonder what you think of my older cards: http://tinyurl.com/2he5m. Let me know if you have time.

I'll post the Pearl Jam decklist when I get home. It uses a combo that I discovered myself while researching the deck, but it turns out it's a known combo (most are.)

I'm looking forward to playing with you, too, especially if you've further tweaked that great green blitz deck (I have an extra Living Hive if you want to trade for it.) I have nine decks assembled right now, and four or five in the works. Maybe I'll be able to assemble a couple of the four or five before then.

I am definitely interested in the deck list for the Pearl Jam deck.
As for the new cards. I especially enjoy Fair Play and think that could be real card.

Food Web seems like it should be green/black instead of blue, due to the sacrificing and all. Plus, the wording seems a bit off. Do you have to sacrifice creatures with exactly X power or greater than/equal to X?

Hamsterwheel definitely amuses me and is a good card but I think merely removing the creature from game would be better. Imprint usually means that the card itself will have some effect on the imprinting artifact. Maybe if it produced 3 mana of one color the removed creature had. ex: 3 blue if you remove a Prodigal Sorcerer.

Lemming cloak is cool but I'm not sure why only if you have a mountain. I mean, lemmings can jump off cliffs into the ocean so why not islands.

Rajah's Trunk is defintely good and it helps out any would be elephant decks and makes Elephant Graveyard get more play.

Reforestation would be an awesome rare card. Get a couple Reforestations and a Foratog out and it's time to kick ass.

All in all, neat ideas and good times. I look forward to playing you with a couple of my tweaked decks when I come down for spring break.

Evan, perfect -- I haven't thought about the polymers story in years. Fifteen is about the right age for that story, too. Thanks for the reminder.

Everyone else, here's that story: a salesman at the Del Mar Fair in San Diego, California was peddling this magic car wax that supposedly protects your car against pretty much everything. Thing is, he was going on and on about the "Polymers. This stuff is full of polymers. Polymer's ... we got five of 'em." Completely pointless statement: lots of things are polymers. It's simply a description of the properties of a compound, to wit, that the compound is made of a chain of identical simple pieces called monomers. Polyester is a polymer. So are polyethylene, polystyrene, polyurethane, polypropylene, and pretty much everything else whose name begins with "poly". Also, nylon, rayon, Kevlar, cellulose, and proteins. There's nothing inherently magical about polymers. A liberal coating of equal parts paper pulp and hemoglobin is not going to protect the finish of your car. So I asked him what polymers his product contained. He got a very patronizing tone and said "Polymers. Look them up on your periodic table." That would be the periodic table of the elements, mind you.

Fucking idiots. Makes for a great story, though. I'm sure the car wax guy knew all about absinthe too.

I found a great site on polymers, if anyone is interested: http://www.psrc.usm.edu/macrog/index.htm

And here's a FAQ on absinthe, in case you're a radio DJ: http://www.feeverte.net/faq.html

Hey Josh, regarding your last post on your blog. “I'm having trouble guessing what she thinks she had to prove to me. I don't think anyone has tried to do this to me since I was 15.” Are your referring to the “Polymers…we got five of ‘em” incident (Del Mar Fair, I think)? Great story either way!

Oh yeah, as an off topic comment, if you haven't seen it, I have a webpage now. This is it

Edited by author 01-28-2004 09:42 PM
I'll start out saying that I am not a sports fan in any sense. I don't follow any sport much less a team. I didn't even realize until yesterday that the SuperBowl was this weekend. That said, I can enjoy a random sporting event. Not as much as some but to a degree.

What I find the best about it is exactly what you, Josh, were talking about with your Dad and David. It's an excuse to have something to be excited about and it creates a social gathering with some interest. Not to say that you couldn't have a group of people over for any other reason, it just seems that sports are a relatively safe thing to center around. If you're into sports, then you can enjoy the game. If you aren't, like some of us, you can enjoy being with others and, for me, I get enthusiastic about other enthusiasm. It may sound odd but I get excited when others are excited. Not many things are as universally accepted as sports. If I were to, say, make a party based on RPGs, not many people are into that and if you aren't, it's hard to jump right in.

As for the message we are sending to children, I'll ask you this. You compared the ticket for a football game to a ticket for a movie. The obvious comparison being the idea that movies would corrupt our youths as well. I know that movies are fake and football is actual people running into eachother but that doesn't lessen the idea that someone is being paid millions to at least pretend to hurt (more than likely kill) others. It is no less a spectacle than any major blockbuster. I know that the Final Destination movies are favorites of yours. Aren't they just excuses to see people die in interesting ways (more so than many other horror films, in my opinion).

Now, the actual starting point of price. I doubt you'd find a lot of people who would say that they would spend upwards of $5000 on a football ticket. Even some diehard fans I know would have a hard time shelling out $800. However, more than anything, it's paying to have that experience. To say, "I was there." I would say, more than comparing it to buying a bottle of scotch, a good comparison is being in the development team for a set in Magic. How much would you pay to be in creative control of one of your favorite games. It's not just having something material. It's gaining an experience that most people will never have. It's being a part of something that you care about.

I could go on but I think that about covers my main thoughts.

Would that be "There is no argument about wheels"?

It might be useful also to keep "Illegitimi non carborundum" at hand. Je suis le illegitimus, and I've been feeling like it since I wrote the post. Mea culpa.

It's not my place to criticize others' hobbies. Have fun, football fans, and I wish you the best. There's no one twisting my arm, making me watch the game, and I'll probably end up watching it anyway. But the reason I'll end up watching it is the same reason I always end up watching it, which is that I feel excluded if I don't. In my family, to be a party to social interaction and a participant in conversations for the duration of the game and a long while thereafter, I have to be able to talk about the game because "IT'S WHAT'S DONE". It's always been that way, since I was a kid, when I couldn't stand the bloody event, or else I'd be shut out of family life. And all the complaints I mentioned about football, the tribalism especially, were part and parcel with my father watching sports when I was growing up. My first sporting memories were of living in Japan, with my dad trying to get me interested in American baseball. Did he try to get me interested in his favorite team so that we could band together, rooting for the same team? No, he tried to get me interested in his favorite team's arch-enemy, so that we could be rooting against each other. This, I guess, is fun for him, this completely vicarious, completely arbitrary contention. Dave, you and Dad still seem to enjoy doing this. Whatever particular method of thought he tried to instill in me, he either succeeded with you or you were born with it.

Dave, you've talked about sports being a relationship-building force with our father, and I can totally see that. But sports, and the role they play in our family, make me resentful. If I want to spend time with both of you simultaneously, when you're in town, it is pretty much mandatory for me to watch a sporting event and deal with all the shouting. That's when I even get invited. And I know that when I'm not invited, it's probably because you expect I wouldn't be interested, not because you expressly do not want my company. But that leaves me in the position of having to petition for admittance to a ritual I don't even enjoy in order to spend time with family members. And you and Dad have this special relationship with all sorts of shibboleths that I can't even pretend to participate in, that in order for me to participate would require me to spend -- what -- 200 hours per year watching sports on television? 400? Some mind-boggling number. And it's just never been worth it to me to submit to this (although I've sure tried at various times,) and so I've worked to find other shared interests with you and our father. And now, as an adult and completely unexpectedly, my wife has turned into a football fan. Maybe she's doing it for relationship-building reasons -- that sort of self-sacrifice is one of her sterling traits -- and maybe she just really enjoys the sport. I don't know.

So yes, I'm bitter. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't enjoy the damn thing, and more power to you. More power to anybody willing to pay the price of a car for a ticket to watch burly men slam into each other for three hours.

Evan, sure, good points. Teamwork, self-sacrifice, common-goal mentality: all laudable, and all overlooked by me. The need to beat people up? Not cool with me. I suppose it's better than assault in a parking lot, but then again a lot of things are. What are we teaching young boys when we show them agressive, angry, violent men making seven-figure salaries?

So sorry for being a bastard. Enjoy the game. All of you. And I'd still like to hear your arguments, if you are interested to make them.

De rotis nil disputandum.

...man, you had me worried, for a second I thought it was David Chalmers (Dave, Chalmers looks too similar)! Back to correct all of my mis-guided arguments from his phil of mind class and to tell me that my senior independent study paper had been passed to him and that I was "wrong, wrong, bloody F@c#ing wrong..."

Thank god it's only about football. so here's my 2 cents:

What about the teamwork and comradery that's promoted by sports such as football, hockey, rugby, and soccer. Team sports that require synchronized movement, observation and anticipation promote working together, self-sacrifice, and a common-goal mentality.

As for the violence: it's fun. Sometime you just need to hit things. Never have I been more calm and relaxed in everyday life as when I was playing rugby. It's quite possible I have a slight masochistic tendency and just need to get beat up every now and then to stay focused, but that's more of a personal thing. But I would much rather somebody have it out on the pitch then have it out on my face in a bar fight. When I watch a game there is a sense of being back in it. I have to settle for this sensation due to the fact that I can no longer play

Price: there are people with too much money, just look at cocaine.

Edited by author 01-27-2004 07:18 AM
OK, Dave, Chalmers:

First of all, I need to apologize. I've already apologized to you, Dave, on the telephone, but let me do it publicly and for the record. The post was bait. I had a longer post planned, but I decided to post the condescending one as a sort of perverse experiment to see who would respond and whether they'd bring up the issues I expected. I guessed a 70% likelihood that it would be Dave and a 30% likelihood that it would be Bob Mike. I don't, as a general rule, troll, but this was undeniably a troll, and I apologize for that. So let me present what I should have in the first place, a more reasoned argument.

Dave, you presented the two issues I expected would be raised, namely, the "It's a hobby" point and the "You buy scotch" point. And it's true: I have an expensive hobby. I have several, actually: along with the scotch, the list includes books, music, and gaming, the latter consisting predominantly of Magic: The Gathering. But in our culture scotch is the easier target, so I expected that would be the one brought up. I didn't actually expect you to go out and find a bottle of scotch as an example. That was cool. I wonder if you used ScotchFinder. And it's a good example: a very nice, very rare, very old bottle, even if RMW is always overpriced. You can get it for just (using that ironically) $1400 at LFW. But part of my aghastness was predicting how much higher the price would be driven. And it happened as I expected: the auction closed at $4,550, still not meeting the reserve price, which puts you into the price range of buying the Glenury Royal 50 that you found and the holy grail of malts enthusiasts, Black Bowmore. But as I find $800 per ticket absurd enough on its own, let's stick with that number for the discussion.

Here are my main objections.

1) The event is televised live, with better views of the game, for free, at least in terms of direct out-of-pocket expenses. It's even advertising free if you have a TiVo, which also gives you instant replay functionality, though I usually find the advertisements at least as engaging as the game. Dave, we talked about this on the telephone, and your position was, if I'm quoting you accurately, "There is no comparison for how it feels to be live at a sports game." For me that's not the case, but it's impossible to argue the point as it is entirely based on personal experience. It's a bit akin to the "stained glass" argument used as ammunition against nonreligious people: "It's like observing a stained glass window," the argument goes, on the topic of religion. "You think you see it from the outside, but you don't really see it until you're on the inside." So it's a trump against the unititiated, and that's fine, you can have that point, if for you there is indeed nothing that even compares with live attendence at a sporting event. I suppose one could make that argument for orgasm or, I presume, drug use, as things for which there is no parallel. I am a bit confused, then, at another of your claims, made in response to my disagreement with you that scotch appreciation was the closest example you could draw. You said something along the lines of "I completely disagree. I think they are as close as two disparate things could possibly be." Maybe your point was that there is nothing that even compares with tasting a rare scotch, a point you presumably would be making on my behalf, as you are not a scotch drinker. But I wouldn't make that claim: while I think the sensory experience of, say, a 1966 Balvenie or a 25 year old Springbank is certainly worthwhile, it is not without comparison. You can taste a Balvenie 12 or a Springbank 12 and fairly accurately imagine what the big brother will taste like, especially if you have the advantage of someone else's tasting notes. That's a comparison and an interpolation, something I would have thought possible while watching a football game live on a wide-screen TV, even with the added discomfort of eight hundred dollars stuffed into your pockets. Which brings me back around to my second point, which is

2) I don't think scotch appreciation is the best comparison you can draw. I think it's better mapped to my love of cinema. While there is indeed a mystique and an immediacy to viewing a film in a theater, I cannot possibly imagine spending $800 on a movie ticket, especially when I could watch it a few months later for less than $5, at home, in the comfort of my own living room, with an arguably better sound system, without people talking around me. All those points carry over to live sporting events, in my opinion, except that sports fans get to watch their events live, not months-delayed, and your average theatergoer does not have to worry about the drunken asshole behind you pouring a $12.50 Miller Lite down the back of your sweatshirt.

3) And then there's point 3, which I didn't even broach on the phone. It's a sensitive subject, and I am sincerely worried about hurting your feelings, so I'll try to tread delicately. I think that professional American football glorifies much that is objectionable in our society. An American football game is a glorification of, a sheer genuflective reverence of, tribalism, agression, violence, arrogance, anger, cut-throat competition, and crass commercialism. I feel this about many sports, but perhaps American football more than any other save hockey and prize fighting. I think you can see this reflected in the sporting events I do choose to watch: skateboard vert, women's billiards, and Olympic diving (I'll also watch much of the Olympic Games and the X Games over the few days per annum [or four anna] they are broadcast.) Scotch appreciation, on the other hand, I find a more -- a more something pursuit -- promoting a love of history, geography, respect for craftsmanship, sensory exploration, and connoisseurship. You may disagree. And a lot of people would agree with you. You might see football as glorifying, say, strategic reasoning, sheer visceral excitement, and statistics education. And you might see single malts consumptions as promoting substance abuse and elitism. I really don't know. (As for Magic, books, and music -- I especially don't know what would be found objectionable, which is part of my reason for expecting scotch to be the target of any counterargument.) The crass commercialism especially rears its ugly head during the Super Bowl, something that you brought up yourself, discussing $25+ parking, $6.75 hot dogs, and $2M commercials. The fact that this obscene price-gouging can itself be taken to justify spending $800 on a ticket seems perverse. If $6.75 for a hot dog is hard to imagine, shouldn't a reserve price of over $4,550 for a pair of tickets be even harder?

As my final point, until I hear your counterargument (until my riposte in my re-post, if you will), let me address Chalmer's question. If I had two Super Bowl tickets, wouldn't I sell them? You bet I would. I would take the $4,550 dollars, too, not claim that that's not enough money. My complaint isn't with the auction seller, it's with the culture that supports it. And thanks for joining in the discussion; I didn't even know you were a reader of mcgees.org. It's always nice to have even more exceptional readers. :-) (For the people out there who aren't Chalmers, Chalmers is a very talented student whom I supervised at Rockwell Scientific when he was a high school senior.)

Hey, just dropping a note.

True, it is a football game, but remember this is America. The land of freedom, plenty, and football. I, personally, am appalled at this utter nonsense; I'd rather just watch the game on TV. Actually, I wouldn't care much at all if I missed the game, which I most likely will. But think of it from another perspective. If you had tickets, wouldn't you sell them and watch the game at home, comfortably sitting on your couch? Ok. So maybe you would; maybe you wouldn't. But I've possibly rambled too much as it is. Gotta get back to writing my paper.

PS personally, I would never spend that much $$$ on a football game.
PPS I believe the US Open (tennis) does give the Super Bowl a run for its money; maybe not in gross revenue, but definitely in attendance.

You sound quite surprised about the cost of those tickets. Why is it so surprising? It's the biggest sports event in the United States. Tickets to regular season football games average over $50 a piece (with Arizona not surprisingly bringing the average way down). It's no surprise to me that a ticket to the Super Bowl would easily sell for $800 or more. 30 second commercials during the telecast cost more than 2 million dollars. A hot dog probably costs $6.75. Parking is going to be $25 at least. It's definitely a luxury, but it doesn't seem extreme to me.

In a few years, when the Colts play the 49ers in the Super Bowl I'm there, regardless of ticket price.* For some, it's a hobby that they're willing to spend money on. I don't see how it's any more or less ridiculous than any other hobby.

Like this particular bottle of scotch. While I'm not presuming that you personally would go buy this, what, $1700 bottle for yourself, I'm wondering: if you had the disposable income, mightn't you like to have a bottle this rare, this nice? I wouldn't see that as a ridiculous expenditure; it's something you enjoy, it's not everyday, so why not?

The Super Bowl is arguably the biggest annual event in sports anywhere (only because the World Cup is played every four years.) I hope to be able to attend one in my lifetime, and I'd be willing to spend the money to do so. This cost doesn't surprise me at all.


*this is assuming that at some point in my life I make an income

Thanks, Amanda, that was great.

Things are going well down here. I know I haven't updated in a while. Shame on me.

The weather is gorgeous, but we're getting to the windy season. Lawn furniture was blowing around last night.

Hello Josh!

Something you (and fellow users of the blog) might find interesting:

The results of the 2nd British blog awards-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/weblogs/s...024,1108883,00.html

Hope all is well with you and Jenn and Niall. Please tell me you are enjoying the sunshine..."You mean it RAINS in Seattle?"

-Amanda Skellenger

So here's a question for you: If a law pertains to everybody, but only affects a minority, is it wrong?

http://education.guardian.co.uk/schoolswor...062,1108962,00.html

Knee-jerk reactionary legislation really pisses me off, you know...

The Math Song - Darkest of the Hillside Thickets

Y=(X/5)...
5^Psi
Psi is the square root of 3
3 is the number for me

I said...
(x[tan n]) - (pi/10) = -9
-9 is so fine.

You got a brain and nobody really needs another love song
You got a brain and nobody really needs another love song
You got a brain and nobody really needs another love song
You got a brain and nobody really needs another love song

N=(V[cos3])^3 + 44
and not an integer more
baby

V = 101+(83/5)-1

What is the value of Y?

You got a brain and nobody really needs another love song
You got a brain and nobody really needs another love song
You got a brain and nobody really needs another love song
You got a brain and nobody really needs another love song

da da da da da DA! da da da da da DA! no mo re so ft mo NEY! no mo re so ft mo NEY!

ok, you two have a wierd thing about sentence structure and modifiers...it must be a brother thing

Or a magazine, the name of which we're expected to understand, while we're asleep. Sort of like saying "the paper" when you mean the Times of London (or the NYT or the LA Times or....)

Edited by author 12-10-2003 04:26 AM
Re: /m57--

Did he mean that we could find him in issues 17 and 19 of a magazine entitled "While You Were Sleeping," or did he mean that we can find him in a publication called "The Magazine," but only while we're asleep?

Also, I think that when he said "hillarious" he was making fun of your middle name.

I did not startle myself at all by garnering a score of 1 out of 10, getting the response "Did you even know the Commonwealth existed?" to which my candid reply was "Actually, no..."

I hadn't even heard of either of these -- Man of the Hour and Lost Dogs -- until just now. I'm so glad they released a rarities album instead of a lame "Best of". How I can be so far out of the loop is beyond me, so thanks for the pointer. I cannot wait to hear these both, especially all the unreleased stuff on Lost Dogs, but I've promised Jenn I won't buy any media for myself before Christmas. So Jenn, if you're reading....

(I'm glad that the song Wash will be getting more exposure: in my opinion, one of the most under-rated Pearl Jam songs ever. There are some major omissions on the disc -- Leatherman comes to mind -- but I suppose they had to make it fit on two discs.)

Edited by author 11-30-2003 01:08 PM
Man of the Hour is the song that was recorded for Big Fish. iTunes was advertising it as an exclusive track on their site, so it might not have been released anywhere else yet. It's good; I'm curious to see how it meshes with the movie.

I did see the preview, and I'm looking forward to it. As is often the case, it featured a pair of songs that aren't actually going to be in the movie (Danny Elfman's scores for Black Beauty and Edward Scissorhands), which always annoys me. I'm a soundtrack nut, though, so it might not make such a big difference to anyone else. Angriest movie moment of 2003: Hearing the Requim for a Dream score in the ad for Lord of the Rings. GAAARRRGGGHHHH!

In regards to Lost Dogs, I have only one thing to say: Dirty Frank Dahmer, he's a gourmet cook, yeah!

I also purchased the bootleg for the concert I went to... July 8th, Madison Square Garden. Yes-- it definitely holds up. Three discs, baby. They played for three hours straight. It was incredible.

I haven't heard Man of the Hour yet, but:

1) I did purchase Pearl Jam's new 2-disc set "Lost Dogs" featuring 30ish b-sides and rarities. It's got some stuff that I had never heard before, and I'm enjoying it immensely.

2) I saw the theatrical preview for "Big Fish" and thought it had the potential to be incredible. The footage from the film is hauntingly beautiful. Then I heard that Pearl Jam had recorded an original song for it, and I was sold. The preview does show more than I wish it had, so avoid it if you're touchy about that stuff.

By the way, this is probably a foolish question, but have you heard Man of the Hour yet? Yipes, it's good.

You are correct, sir. I shortened the time period so that I wouldn't feel quite so old.

Mike, it was more than a few years ago. I think it was about seven years ago that it happened, if I remember.

My only gripe with 06/03/03 is that there was one last performance that didn't make it onto the CD. The final song of the night was Rockin' in the Free World, with Jack Irons taking the drums from Matt, who moved to guitar, and it was as sweet as music has ever been. Matt is wasted on the drums. He's a great drummer, but he absolutely tore that guitar up. I would have loved to have gotten that on CD, but it wasn't included for some reason.

Don't feel so bad about the word thing. A few years ago, I spent about thirty seconds trying to figure out what I was looking at during one of my walks. It seemed familiar, and I knew that I should recognize it. Eventually, it dawned on me that I was staring at a leaf.

Yes, I did. Thanks. I think I got both Irvine concerts, the San Diego concert, the Mansfield concert with the acoustic set, and the March 3 Tokyo show. I also noticed, now that you brought it up, that I have listed none of these on my CD collection page. I'll fix that.

(You ever suddenly forget an English word? I typed the word 'brought' and it looked so funny to me, I had to look it up to make sure I spelled it correctly. It's a word that I, of course, have been using since early childhood.)

Sometimes, after seeing a concert, I wonder if the music was really as amazing as I thought it was, or if it was just the effect of being there with so many excited people that made it sound so good. After downloading 06/03/03: North America - #42 - Irvine off of Apple Music, I can now safely say that Pearl Jam's live work holds up to repeated listening. I don't know if you've gotten your hands on the concert that you went to, but I suggest that you do, if you haven't.

Filthy WoTC and their Type II. We hates it. We hates the wizardses. They took the type I from us. Dirty, filthy, tricksy wizardses.

(I have lost my mind)

Yeah, I heard about this. Somebody posted it to my scotch discussion page, actually. The reason is quite simple: the Japanese make some very good whisky. They have been trying intensively for 70 years. Japanese companies also own several whisky interests in Scotland, including the Morrison-Bowmore company, a further source for Scottish whisky expertise.

By the way, the guy on MetaFilter who "blame[d] the scots for switching to continuous distillation methods" is an idiot. It's not true, and the fact that an uniformed person is all too keen to jump into the fray with misinformation is one of the main reasons I've stopped reading MetaFilter. I have, however, set the record straight (read my message on the page posted at 1:34 AM on November 26.)

Josh,

I figured that if anyone would know the answer to this, it would be you: How did this happen?

Edited by author 11-05-2003 03:22 PM
OK, http://www.mcgees.org/img/babypictures/. So there.

I don't want to nag, but....
You still have more pictures of Mika on your website than of Niall.

Hello all!

Josh,

The new e-mail address is askellen@earthlink.net.

Yes, we are happy up here but getting settled takes what seems to be forever. Of course all we want to do is explore, which doesn't leave much time for unpacking.

Give my best to Jenn -- Aidan too was a fast birth but was dehydrated upon coming home as well. A case of jaundice developed and peaked in his first week of life, so the first few weeks were all about trying to get the poor bugger to eat because he was so lethargic.

I'll send a quick picture on over to your e-mail address. Keep in touch.

-Amanda

Amanda, great to hear from you. It has been a long time!

Yes, we did see the Crib Notes (for "outsiders", that's the birth announcements section of our alumni magazine.) I had misplaced your email address, though, so couldn't write to wish you well.

Great name you chose. We were actually thinking about Aidan ourselves.

Hope you and Scott are happy in the Northewest.

- Josh

HELLO! I think a congratulations to you and Jenn is in order! I haven't visited your site in a long time so I was so surprised to see a birth announcement!!!! What a beautiful boy.

Welcome to the club...I don't know if you saw the Crib Notes in the Summer '03 issue of CLU Magazine but my son was born Sept. 13th of last year. He is now 13+ months old, and the sucking and farting hasn't stopped. If anything that gets more vigorous. hee hee. His name is Aidan Miles. Picked an Irish name way ahead of time, and he came out with red hair and blue eyes (and the tenacity to match). Of course since Scott and I both have dark brown hair, that was a bit of a shock.

Anyway, I could go on and on, but if I remember correctly I could hardly see straight in the first few weeks of being a new parent so I will spare your eyes the strain. Unfortunately we relocated to the Seattle area last month (Bainbridge Island, specifically) otherwise little Aidan and Niall could meet. Best wishes!!! And Happy 1st Halloween to Niall.

- Amanda (Eaves) Skellenger
  CLU Class of '99

Edited by author 10-27-2003 04:55 PM
I caught the "sitting on her right" bit, too. That's just a mistake. I wonder if the film was flipped for some reason.

While we're on mistakes, Uma has a Japanese accent that too my ear is quite good in her discussions with Hattori Hanzo. I assume she had a great dialect coach. But in her voiceovers, which presumably did not have the advantage of a coach, she mispronounces Nippon and Tokyo.

Also, why haven't I seen Julie Dreyfus before? I do expect to see her henceforth. Maybe she'll get a chance to play
Kristen Davis's sister (perhaps with Monica Bellucci as a third.) By the way, did you notice that she was also credited as the Tokyo casting agent?

Josh-

I also loved Kill Bill. In the same manner as you, I absolutely loved it. I can't remember the last time a movie excited me so much. I went back and watched it again. At full price. Which around here is £10. Which is like $16. A little ridiculous it may seem, but I actually am having to restrain myself from going back.

Now I will discuss two errors in the movie. I know this is e-mailed to people who may not have seen it, so don't keep reading.

The two errors that bothered me: Uma says she is trying to "will her muscles out of entropy." She means "atrophy." She's supposed to be magnificently brilliant badass, surely this is just an error, not QT being clever.

The other is that Uma says "the girl sitting on her right" when the girl is, indeed, sitting on her left. (not that smart people can't confuse directions, he added, remembering who reads these posts!)

Adam, "Is she presenting these alphabetically?" Sean Davis, "Apparently not." Andrew, "But Sean Davis is the exception, at least in these first few." Anthony, "Totally agreed." Emmanuel, "It's possible that they are alphabetical by last name." Sean Yang, "I think that my inclusion this early in the list sort of limits that possibility." Matthew "Perhaps there is no organizing principle." Elizabeth, "That seems likely." Alyssa, "As the outcast from the "A-Team", I move to suggest "no organizing principle"." Viviana, "I second that motion." Yesenia, "But at least they are bookended correctly."

Adam, "How is he doing? Is he a crybaby?" Sean Davis, "Does the baby love to drink milk?" Andrew, "Your baby grandson went to bed in the crib and you gave him a bottle." Anthony, "The baby is really cute." Emmanuel, "Dear Baby, Are you going to be mean to your parents?" Sean Yang, "Dear Niall, You're cute and I want to meet you. Joshua and Jennifer, I hope you come to visit us at Emperor School." Matthew "I hope the baby has a very good week. My Grandmother has made a baby blanket for him. I hope you like it." Elizabeth, "The baby is cute." Alyssa, "Niall is a very good baby and when he grows up I hope he will be a father." Viviana, "He can have a dream when he's growing up, playing basketball." Yesenia, "It's a cute little baby. I like his name."

Baby! Very cute. Congratulations to you both, and to the extended family.

His favorite activities at present are sucking and farting

As they say in one of my favorite Twilight Zone episodes, people really are the same all over.

::smoking cigar:: GOOD JOB!!!

So... is somebody eventually going to get around to getting me a nephew? Or what? Stop dilly-dallying and get on with it. Sheesh.

I thought it had to be, so I clicked through a couple levels, expecting at a certain point to be told something like "See, this is how they took advantage of you the first time around. Don't be so gullible." But that didn't happen. Instead there is a PayPal link to send them 20 bucks.

Re: The Rip-Off Revenge

Are you sure it's not a joke? It really must be a joke. Right?

Nope, that was me, not Jenn. Somebody forgot to sign out of QT.... :-)

Not to mention Riefenstahl, but that was Monday....

I was shocked about Lindh: the initial police report had said that her wounds were "serious but not life-threatening."

Did you see the whole obituaries page today? Not just Teller, but Johnny Cash, John Ritter, Charles Bronson, Marie Foster (civil rights activist) and Sweden's foreign minister.

Egads.

No, Josh, you weren't being too harsh when you said that Teller died 60 years too late. If only, if only. I believe that this man will ultimately be responsible for more deaths than Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot combined.

This man was responsible for the weapon that, unless we are very very careful and lucky, will destroy human life on this planet.

At least most of the guys that worked on Manhattan wished they hadn't done it, afterward. Too little too late, yes. But something, anyway. Some shred of recognition that what they had done was terrible.

And to tell you the truth, I find it no surprise that President Bush recently awarded him the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Birds of a feather, I guess.

I'll pay the $36. Skip Boston and come visit me, dweeb.

It's a little late but I find it amazing that I've seen 30 of IMDB's bottom 100 movies.

Combining the two most recent entries on your site. This makes everything more fun.

π4*2Ẫ4B̉-C̃4 (Ċ3+Χ2) D̃-G̉4 (±Ğ2) H̀4 (–H́2.3,=*2)

There ya go!

What field of study?

Portuguese Literature.

I'll send an e-mail with my mailing address to collect my $5.

I found a Random TinyURL prize: http://tinyurl.com/b9ph -- note particularly the groups in which he chose to post.

Oh, yeah - 16 of the worst 100. If you live long enough you will see many, too. Some of them can be accounted for by admitting that I spent several summers watching old black and white movies on tv while I was being paid to babysit.

I have seen 8 of the top 10, 60 of the top 100, 161 of the top 250. This does not count those I slept through, the ones I saw so long ago that I have forgotten them, or the ones I walked out on. This is fun.

Number of IMDB Top 10 films I've seen: 7 (It would be nine but I can't say I paid all that much attention when I saw the Godfather I and in true Jenn fashion I fell asleep during part II).

Number of Top 100 films: 52
Number of Top 250 films: 94

Number of Bottom 100 films: 6 as whole movies and 2 on MST.

The number of IMDB Top 10 Films I have seen: 6 (60%)
The number of IMDB Top 100 Films I have seen: 29 (29%)
The number of IMDB Top 250 Films I have seen: 63 (25%)


Bottom 100: 6 (6%)

I'm not a big movie watcher, but I do fall victim to whatever is on cable while I'm doing housework!

Amal

The number of IMDB Top 10 Films I have seen: 8 (80%)
The number of IMDB Top 100 Films I have seen: 49 (49%)
The number of IMDB Top 250 Films I have seen: 100 (40%)


Bottom 100: 15 (15%)

In response to your August 18 post:

The number of IMDB Top 10 Films I have seen: 0 (0%)
The number of IMDB Top 100 Films I have seen: 7 (7%)
The number of IMDB Top 250 Films I have seen: 20 (8%)

The number of IMDB Bottom 100 Films I have seen: 9 (9%)

-Jordon Kalilich
http://www.theworldofstuff.com

Speaking of good band names, Anonymous Wiki Contributor?

Not among them.

Good grief! Most of those insults would make excellent band names. I have a hard time even picking a favorite. "flouting milksops" is good. "scoffing braggarts" is also awesome. Maybe, just maybe, "woodcock slangams" is my favorite. But they're all good.

Josh: You need to read "Fast Food Nation" by Eric Schlosser. I know it's been on your "read soon list" but it's time to kick it up to the front of the queue.

Weird list, man.

The "star and shoes" thing... I would guess it's referencing Luigi's Mansion on the GameCube. A kids' game. Which would also account for the syntax and diction.

Lame like Feldon, dude.

Pearl Jam has just left Sony Music. From now on, their plan is to release all of their new music on the internet.

oh..and josh, first line goes "The PowellsBooks newsletter has a bizarre and addictive "

Hey David...I'm ganna be in NYC at the end of the month, drop me your info and we could do lunch or something...

evangoepfert@cox.net

Hey David...I'm ganna be in NYC at the end of the month, drop me your info and we could do lunch or something...

OK, Josh. It's time for you to post again.

My first line: "The PowellsBooks newsletter has a bizarre and addictive feature called, and I'm"

The pictures are fine with me now... the page loaded really quickly. Perhaps the delays that I assumed were from the Magic Card images were from that recursive mail loop?

When you ride alone, you ride with bin laden by bill maher...i highly recommend it. funny with some great ideas. one of those "i may not agree with everything in it, but i am a better person for being exposed to the idea" kinda books

The Matrix Reloaded, to quote Bob Mike, "rules my jewels."

Cryptonomicon is one of my favorite novels ever. I cannot recommend it too highly. There's also Zodiac to add to your Stephenson list if you haven't read it yet: not his best, but quite good nonetheless.

I've only tried reading one Gibson book: Virtual Light, I think, and that was some years ago. I couldn't really get into it at that point. I should try to pick it up again.

I've only recently started to get back into cyberpunk. Snow Crash, Diamond Age...hell, if Neil Stephenson writes it, I'll read it (in the middle of Cryptonomicon). My reading time is pretty cut by other hobbies, so the progress is not fast as I'd like. I'll have to remember Altered Carbon and I would pay double the normal movie price to see a good movie version of Snow Crash (I wouldn't be surprised or disappointed if it was animated).

Edited by author 05-15-2003 10:35 PM
Evan,

I can't wait to see Matrix Reloaded. I'm really looking forward to it.

I just got the Powells.com newsletter in which they recommend the cyberpunk novel Altered Carbon by Richard K. Morgan: "This debut novel effortlessly blends the techno-fetish of William Gibson, the hardboiled detective narrative of Dashiell Hammett and the rapid-fire heroic bloodshed of the films of John Woo. If you enjoy such cyberpunk classics as Snow Crash and Neuromancer, Altered Carbon deserves a space on your reading list."

Have you read it?

(Regarding the "too deep" comment: Here's hoping for a great, authentic film of Snow Crash. Any takers?)

holy crap on a crap-cracker: matrix reloaded rocked my world last night!!!

Cyberpunk as a genre just flat-out kicks butt, and the matrix shows what sticking to cyberpunk can pull off. By not making everything typically hollywood action the W bros have taken cyberpunk in the movies to a completely new level with no sign of slowing down.

I will grant that the matrix doesn't fit every aspect of the genre...but hey, what really does? And i think it gives producers a reason to look at some other cyberpunk scripts that they might previously have thought to be "too deep" for a major production.

Matrix=too much metal for one hand!!!!

Dad-

It's possible that I misquoted you, I'm sorry if I did.

I wrote a long post and deleted it. I don't want to be offensive, and it was really coming off snarky.

I'll just say "Yeah, what Josh said" and leave it at that.

Edited by author 05-14-2003 04:21 PM

More than one tribe [of Native Americans] has creation legends which describe people as vegetarian, living in a kind of Garden of Eden. A Cherokee legend describes humans, plants, and animals as having lived in the beginning in "equality and mutual helpfulness". The needs of all were met without killing one another. When man became aggressive and ate some of the animals, the animals invented diseases to keep human population in check. The plants remained friendly, however, and offered themselves not only as food to man, but also as medicine, to combat the new diseases.

                    - Rita Laws, Ph.D., Native Americans and Vegetarianism

Edited by author 05-14-2003 04:02 PM
There's a scene in Hedwig and the Angry Inch where Hedwig and Tommy are rocking out to a song that they'd written together, and then Hedwig realizes that Tommy got the lyrics wrong. Hedwig flies off the handle, exclaiming that the song that they'd written together had been perfect, but then Tommy fucked it up. I imagine that Jesus must feel that way whenever he reads anything that Paul wrote.

In any religion that values meekness and turning the other cheek, one wonders why anyone would accuse someone of weakness based on their choice of diet. I find it doubtful that, as he allowed himself to be lead away painfully executed for the sins of others, Jesus hoped that his followers would have the strength of conviction to set aside their vegetable-based diets and consume the flesh of factory-farmed animals. He probably had bigger things on his mind at the time. On the other hand, I wasn't there, so who knows?

Paul, in my view, was a bully who enjoyed picking on those that he perceived as weaker than himself. Let's not forget how the man started his career: Persecuting Christians. After God knocked him off his ass (literally), he realized that there was something bigger and stronger than him, and so he quickly fell into line (as bullies tend to do). Turns out, though, that he was still able to get his kicks by taking shots at gays and (apparently) vegetarians. This could be why, in non-Christian groups, Paul has a reputation for being the most hateful and backward of the apostles.

Of course, all of this assumes that the Bible is completely on the level. I'm Christian, and I consider a good 75% of the things in the book to be either irrelevant or bullshit. I also eat meat, so it's not as though I'm attempting to debunk Paul in an attempt to get anyone over to my camp. I've just never liked the guy. Much like half of my high school science class, he could hang out with the teacher all day without learning a damn thing.

On the other hand, we live in a country where we invoke the name of Jesus before we drop millions of tons of bombs on another nation, so maybe I've been approaching this whole Christianity thing from the wrong direction. Way to turn the other cheek, America! Christianity is in desperate need of a tune-up.

Thanks for joining the discussion. It's valuable to have such a diametrically opposed opinion in the debate.

Your points:

1) That meat consumption has positive socio-economic effects: True. There are many jobs that derive from the meat consumption industry. But this statement is misleading in some ways. If people stopped eating meat, they wouldn't start eating nothing. They would still eat vegetables, fruits, legumes, processed foods, etc., all of which would need to be grown, transported, packaged, and sold. So just because we would have no job for meat packers any longer, there is no reason why they couldn't work at, say, a tofu factory.

Second, you are aware that this is the exact same argument leveled by supporters of human slavery two centuries ago, right? Just because something costs more doesn't mean its wrong. In fact, frequently the things that cost more are the things that are more ethically sound (think shoes and clothes made in non-sweatshop conditions, organic produce, hybrid cars.) So even if elimination of meat consumption would have a ripple effect through the economy, it might still be worthwhile.

2) The Bible stuff: Here are the references for the verses you threw out:

[H]ave dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth., Gen 1:28

For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs., Rom 14:2

There is also Acts 10:9-13, which overturns kosher laws:

Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

A vegetarian arguing from theological grounds might quote Gen 1:29, arguing that later laws were corruptions of the original command for vegetarianism:

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

But it is really just intellectual masturbation for me to parry your Bible verses with more Bible verses. The fact is that I think the entire basis is unsound. With another nod to David Cross, that's the worst, slash worst, slash worst again part about a theological basis for ethics: it encourages intellectual laziness. No need to actually wrestle with the tough moral issues, just see if it's adressed in The Book. And when you are dealing with a religious framework as convoluted and self-contradictory as that of Judeo-Christianity, you can pretty much prove anything you set out to do.

I don't agree with PETA extremists either (is PITA perhaps "People for the Irrational Treatment of Animals"? Or is it just a confusion with their preferred bread for hummus? ;-) But one doesn't have to agree that animals are equal to believe that animals are deserving of compassion. And one wonders exactly how much stewardship of creation is going on when you pull a veal calf from its mother immediately upon birth and place it in a crate so small that it cannot turn around. That doesn't sound like stewardship. That sounds like exploitation.

A very slight bit of ad hominem argument: if we have "not honored and cared for animals for which we are responsible", as you say, then it is specifically a reality of your sinfullness if you do not exclusively choose organic, free-range, kosher-slaughtered beef. If you turn a blind eye to this aspect, you are not only turning a blind eye to what I advocate against, you're turning a blind eye to what you advocate against.

Back to you.

P.S. What did you mean by "Consumption" being the operative word. Can "consumption" be separated from "process"?

(My father responded to that statement with something like "The cells of your steak weren't conscious." I have no idea what that argument is supposed to mean, and I told him so.)

Dave;

Thanks for attributing the above quote to me, but I didn't say it and have no idea what it would mean either. Now I wonder what I did say.

I have no problem believing that we disagree on the topic of meat consumption. "Consumption" being the operative word. Can "consumption" be separated from "process"?

I do not advocate for the substandard treatment of animals. (Can one say "inhumane" if they're not human?) I am also aware of the conditions of slaughter houses. But I do have a couple of rationale (other that the conscious level of the meat) when I eat meat:

1) Socio-economics. The process of raising meat producing animals, growing feed, transportation, packaging, sales, etc provide jobs for thousands of people in our society. If we all stopped eating meat it would be a terrible blow to our economy.

2) Theological. (This one should be more fun!) I believe that God placed non-human animals on the earth to serve humanity. (No puns about being "served" to humanity) I don't believe that humans and other animals are equal, unlike some fanatics from PITA. Humanity is called to be "stewards" of all Creation which include the "lesser" animals.

Have we fulfilled that function? No. In many ways we have polluted the air, soil and water. We have not honored and cared for animals for which we are responsible. That is a reality of our sinfullness.

Still, that is our calling. We still have free will to choose to do better in our own lives and encourage others to do the same.

But, when it comes to eating meat, I believe that is ordained by God.

An interesting note: In the New Testament there were those who thought they should be vegetarian for religious reasons. Paul refered to them as the "weak".

This is long enough.

Peace

Yes, very good! I especially like the link to Dr. Strangelove.

Not to gloat (much), but this showed up on mcgees.org on February 26th ;-). I found it through Metafilter, but I didn't credit Metafilter at the time, so, Metafilter, consider yourself credited. :-p

http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

it's so good i just had to share! Just make sure you're paying attention.

Edited by author 05-08-2003 02:24 AM
"why are fish always the exception to vegetarian diets?"

well, here's my personal answer, which is the best i can give you:

my vegetarianism is not based on "meat is murder" so much as "really, people, there is no reason to cause intense suffering to these animals over their entire lifetimes so that we can eat meat at every meal". frankly, it is the high levels of consumption of meat in america that lead to the factory farming principles that i find most abhorrent. because of the way animals are treated through out their lives, yes, but also because of their environmental effects and their unjustifiable, to myself at least, consumption of resources. (i can go into detail on that if anyone cares to ask.)

fish don't have a lot of these disadvantages. they are killed to be consumed, yes. do i see that as a negative thing? yes. do i see it as negative as lifetime suffering? no. do i think degrees matter greatly in morality? yes. do i expect everyone to agree with me on this? no.

the environmental arguement here is also one of degrees. yes, overfishing is a problem, as is fish farming, which i don't support, and i try not to eat fish on specific lists of endagered/overfished species.

yet, why eat fish at all? you know, truth be told, i can't really justify it, and i've been trying to phase it out of my life except in special occasion situations, because eaten that way it's impact is very minimal. and i mostly have. but, damn, i really love seafood. almost as much as i loved peppersteak...sigh...

it's all about what you can give up in the end i suppose. i don't believe in the programs a lot of my taxes are going to and think i could do better by just donating the money to charities and public maintenainc funds that i belive in. will i do this? no. i don't want to go to jail. i'm selfish like that. are there things morally that i have qualms about with eating fish? yes. but i still want to eat it a couple times a year. i'm selfish like that too. and i guess i'm ok with that...which, incidentally, is why i would never tell someone they should be vegan/vegetarian/not eat red meat. just that they should ask themselves the questions and make sure they are ok with their answers.

Edited by author 05-07-2003 06:14 PM
1) The Onion is as funny as a room full of midgets and monkeys squardancing: and it never gets old!

2) Why are fish always the exception to vegatarian diets? Is being pulled from your habitat by a hook through your mouth any more humane than the wonderous "thud" of a sledge on your temple?

3) Bill Gates is under no moral obligation to give his money to anyone: welcome to capitalism. He's taxed (ostensibly) just like everyone else for the government services and protection provided. Many of which he doesn't use. It's nice if he chooses to donate money, many people would benefit and appreciate it. It's a polite thing to do.

The teen-ager who doesn't give up his seat is certainly a brat, but the physical proximity to a situation doesn't make it anything more thant a nice/polite thing to do.

Giving money to a begger is a nice thing to do, but it's in no way manditory. They cleary require the money more than I do, but it's still my money. I worked for it; the fruit of my labor is mine to dispense how I will. I give to certain causes, I could afford to give even more. But I don't. I don't think anybody looks down on me for it, nor would I look down on anybody else.

Now, I'm all about the government funding programs: welfare, medical care, social security, job traiing, scholarship, loans, etc. So tax me for it. I'm fine with that, I gain a benefit of being a citizen. I already get nice roads, police, fire, public schools, and the additional benefit of everybody else being at a higher standard of living, thus making my life easier to live. I jump up and down screaming at the TV every time there's a proposed tax cut (esp during an expensive war). So please, tax my ass, for what I gain it's so little to pay.

As for meat: you're all nicer than I am. Cows, chickens, pigs, and other misc beasts appreaciate what you do. On the other hand, fish find you all hypocrites and believe you should all be ashamed. I don't eat fish at all: they love me. So I guess I'm about as much of a vegitarian as you all are.

David, thanks for the take on NYC. I'm probably going to be making a visit out there in a few months, I'll try to get in touch w/ you before i head out, maybe we can get to gether for dinner or something.

From the same issue of The Onion:

8-Year-Old Forced To Eat Organic Macaroni And Cheese
SAUSALITO, CA—In spite of his distaste for Annie's Homegrown Mac & Cheese, area 8-year-old Josh Remmert was forced by his mother to eat an entire plate of the organic pasta for lunch Tuesday. "I like Kraft Mac & Cheese a lot better, but Mom says it's all processed and got artificial stuff in it," Remmert said. "At least it's the right color. The cheese in this stuff isn't even orange." To help wash down the all-natural pasta, Remmert was given a choice between carrot juice and vanilla-flavored Rice Dream.

Why does The Onion time everything so perfectly?

Most of my friends are vegetarian. My girlfriend only eats fish. I'm in favor of people eating whatever the Hell they feel like, but I seldom feel like eating red meat.

I agree that animals should be treated humanely before they're slaughtered. Generally speaking, if the food you get is kosher, you don't have much to worry about in this regard (and kosher chicken is delicious).

Hey Becca--

No you're really Josh's sister-in-law; you're kinda-not-really my sister-in-law.

Welcome to the board!

~Dave

hiya everybody.

Well, for those of you who don't know me, I'm Josh's sister-in-law, kinda, and I've been a mostly vegetarian (with lapses to be discussed later) for three years.

First, I second Josh's suggestion that anyone interested in this topic and looking to challenge the way our society generally views and thinks about the consumption of animal flesh should read Eric Marcus's excerpt and also John Robbins' <i>The Food Revolution<i>. They present very compelling arguements for a plant based diet. (Robbins' book also discusses the commercial usage of genetically modified organisms and that whatever their promise to help mankind might be, they are currently used mainly to sell toxic weedkillers, and how their effects upon release into the environment cannot truly be forseen, but that's a whole other issue...)

As for the whole situationally relevant morality of eating meat, I completely agree with Josh here. I think it is exactly because we live lives of comparitive luxury (to be able to choose which foods we will eat instead of surviving off what we must) that we should be compeled to examine what impact those choices have on the world and the animals we are eating. I personally would never tell someone they should starve rather than eat a steak or drink cow's milk.

But why would you contribute to an industry which damages the enviornment if you don't have to? Why would you choose to eat animals who have been tortured their whole lives and then often inhumanely slaughtered? Why would you sacrifice your own personal health, as links to colon cancer and heart disease in flesh based diets are fairly solid?

I think these are questions that everyone that has a choice of what they can eat has a responsibility to ask themselves. Ultimately, I couldn't come up with answers good enough to justify continuing to eat meat in the way that we do.

Now, here are my exceptions. For a period of five months in Nepal, I was not vegetarian. Meat there is eaten ceremoniously (monthly) at best, for most families cannot afford it regularly. It is from pasture raised animals whose dung is often used as fertilizer or fuel. Here animals raised for food contributed to a healthy environment, as far as I could see, and did not suffer. Then, there is my fish exception. For reasons I may get to later but this post is too long, I occasionally eat fish and other seafood. In someways it comes down to a rarity issue and a lower environmental impact issue, in someways it's for ease and in someways it's for personal enjoyment, and not all of these are things i'm proud of.

anyway, i guess my moral here: i don't think eating animal flesh is wrong in and of itself for sustenance, but the industry as it exists (in america especially) is damaging and increases unneccessary suffering, and as members of a consumerist society where what we buy can have almost as much power as who we vote for, i can't justify voting in support of the meat industry.

~becca

I'm glad that last argument was raised... when I was explaining my poor usage of "moral" I was going to add that I don't think it's wrong for anyone to use animal products, using our African farmer (or something very similar) as an example. I left him out, yet here he is.

Whew.

Evan,

Regarding the starving student life in New York City--

Some things you should know.

It is very expensive to live here. A good rule is to take whatever you pay for anything, and add 50%. This will add up to you always feeling as if you are being ripped off.

Rent prices blow. I'm paying $675 a month to share a room. It can get cheaper the longer your commute. You can get a great place in Brooklyn for less, but it's all about the opportunity cost. I love living in Manhattan.

Dude, you can get anything delivered. I got a chocolate sundae delivered once, for real. With walnuts.

The weather is... interesting. It's not so much of a hassle. It gets cold and shitty and hot, muggy and shitty. But really, we're spoiled living in Southern California, and it can only build character.

Or give us something fun to complain about.

I love it here, man. This place rocks.

Mike,

It's OK, it doesn't cost me anything to get the DVDs from Netflix (other than the monthly service charge.) Thanks for the offer, though. Netflix says that the publisher is planning to release season three in the future.

Evan,

If Bill Gates said "The substinence farmer in Africa shouldn't have to donate money to charity, so I don't see why I should," would you find the argument as valid? Or how about the physically fit high schooler who said "My grandmother doesn't have to give up her seat on the subway to people on crutches, so I don't see why I should have to"?

I don't grant your implicit assumption that all ethical rules need to be the same for everyone. It is precisely because it "easy for us to talk about the rights of animals" that we should talk about the rights of animals. The advantaged have the ability to reduce the suffering in the world with relatively little sacrifice. It would be a shame if they passed up that chance.

I still have yet to find any argument on the suffering of animals compelling, but then I haven't really sought one out. Nor do I plan to. It’s easy for us to talk about the rights of animals when all of us can choose what we eat. But I’m not about to tell a subsistence farmer in Africa that he needs to stop drinking his cows’ milk because it’s morally wrong to do so. Nor will I tell him that the milk he drinks isn’t good for him because it wasn’t meant for him. The fact is cows and other animals turn things we can’t eat (grass, weeds, etc.) into things we can (milk, and well themselves…meat).

While I accept that the farmer and I are under completely different circumstances I cannot accept that anything is more right for him than it is for me. Should this farmer feel some sort of guilt for what he’s doing to this poor cow, even if it is out of necessity?

Josh,

I could have loaned you the DVD set. It contains seasons one and two, which is unfortunate, because the best stuff in the series comes after that.

Mike,

Yes, David played SUYFB for me over the Christmas holiday, and I loved it, so I went out and purchased it for myself. I enjoyed the short portions of Mr. Show that I saw. I didn't know they were available on DVD: I've added them to my Netflix queue.