I will be out of the office until Monday January 5

Hi Frank, thanks for recommending that Frontline Special. It was interesting but both times I tried to watch it I was so tired that I fell asleep. I still have it and intend to finish it sometime over the Christmas Break.

P.S. Please excuse the away message that is about to pop up.

Be advised--
There is an upcoming FRONTLINE special on PBS entitled:
"From Jesus to Christ: The first Christians"

It is showing in my area on Thursday, Dec 11, at 8pm, with part two showing on the following Thursday. Check your local schedules.

I've seen this before. It's a scholarly presentation.
Well worth watching!!!

Seasons Greetings to everyone.

I know of someone who has a daughter who was born without her arm from just under her elbow. She pointed out to her daughter a man without his arm above the elbow, and the girl noticed he had more trouble than herself in opening a pamphlet. Her mother said "Thank god for that!". Who should that man thank???

"God" is the only superstition still accepted today. People scoff at those afraid of the number 13, or black cats, or walking under ladders. How is a belief in "god" any different from UFO's or leprechans? Any or all could and might exist, but no one gets exceedingly emotional, mentally unbalanced, or violent about leprechans or unicorns.

I will be out of the office until Tuesday May, 28, If you need anything before I return, please contact Mitch Moss on extention x7651

What are your opinions on violonce







give long answer.

Frank: Good arguement about the "spirits in waiting"! I honestly don't believe we can answer many of these questions until we die and are there to see for oursleves. All of my comments that end in question marks are rhetorical - we can theorize and discuss and debate for as long as we live! My only desire is to take what I know about God and life, in general, and move into this day and all the tomorrows being the best person I can be. I've shared my stories because what happend is important to me.

When I discovered this site, I read from the end of November until my first post all in one sitting. Needless to say, I was in awe of the conversation. I'll go further back and read the discussion on spirit.

Edited by author 05-12-2002 04:53 PM
Tisha,

    From your recent posts, it appears that upon looking at the traditional Judeo-Christian doctrine, you've found some parts to be illogical. Specifically, why would billions upon billions of human "spirits" arrive at heaven or hell, only to be warehoused there for all of eternity? What purpose does this serve?
    Instead, you seem to be suggesting that "spirits" depart a human body upon death, and then float around until they join up with a newborn baby.

     This sounds remarkably close to the Hindu doctrine of "Reincarnation." This is certainly a more efficient use of "spirits," but ultimately is flawed by your same objection to the Judeo-christian beliefs. Once, there were just a million humans on earth. We assume that each had a spirit. Now, there are 6 billion and growing. If each of those 6 billion humans has a immortal "spirit," most of those spirits have spent much of human history waiting on enough people to be born. And how many more "spirits" are out there to accomodate future population growth on this planet?

We had a discussion earlier about "spirit." See messages 321-335.

Tisha,

I travelled Hwy 395 frequently when I was in the service about 20 years ago. Went all the way from SoCal to Reno. It was a long, lonely road, though sometimes quite scenic. Apparently quite dangerous, as you say, for I do remember seeing mangled truck wrecks along the side of the road.

I'll comment later about your "spirits."

It's about 10:15pm and I'm watching DateLine - anyone see it tonight? They're talking about the dangerous roads in America. The accident I had in California was talked about - Highway 395 in San Bernardino County. The road has lots of hills and it's difficult to see what's coming....they said it's been called "the bowling alley" - if you saw the show, you can see how the hills are.

So, can you understand why I feel blessed when I hear that people die all the time on that road and I walked away?

My trip has been postponed, so since I’m thinking of you…..

I’ve been thinking about what’s been said here. Thank you for your explanations - I believe in both the logical and the spiritual. Calculating the bridge and sizes of the vehicles makes perfect sense - and I want to add that without the help of Spirit, we may have hit each other. So that split second when we all passed and no one was hurt was my miracle.

1986 was an interesting year for me with car accidents. In April I was rear-ended by a car while sitting at a stoplight – he obviously wasn’t paying attention. He hit me at 30 mph and I hit the car in front of me. I was driving a 5-speed and when on a flat surface and at a stop, I have always put the vehicle in neutral with my feet off the pedals. Had my feet been on the pedals, I could be crippled today -–the car hit so hard that the back seat was pushed up against my back and the front end of my car was smashed into my chest – being 5’2” helped, too! I got away with a car that looked like an accordion with a few broken lights, and some soreness in my left shoulder.

August was the story you just read, and then in November was the big one. My friend and I were driving from Death Valley, CA to San Diego – through the desert. We stopped for dinner and he had several drinks, so I drove from there, on toward Victorville. If any of you have been in those parts, you know that the sky is huge and the sand goes on for miles in all directions. It was getting dark and as I was driving, a thought came to me, “What would I do if I saw two sets of headlights in front of me?” – no sooner did I think it than there they were! I was driving a VW bug with no seatbelts and my friend said calmly for me to take my feet off the pedals and move to the right – everything was ok until I went to get back on the road. The tires were in the sand and as I steered back onto the road, we started to spin which started us tumbling over and over and over until we finally landed out in the desert. As we were rolling, we had only each other’s hand and the handle above the inside door to hold on to. We landed at least 75 yards from the road. We looked at each other, moved a bit, and realized we were ok. Every window had popped out and the front end was smashed. We landed on the tires, so we could get out ok. We walked toward the road and a semi truck had stopped and the driver was standing there with tears streaming down his face. He was shaking his head saying, “It’s by the grace of God.” He told us we missed hitting each other by less than 10 feet and described to us that we looked like a ping pong ball bouncing from the top of the car to the tires. He thought we were dead and had called all the emergency vehicles. No one could believe we were alive.

Three times in one year! I could have died in any one of those accidents. It’s made me believe that there is a reason for everything. I feel very blessed. I approach life with the belief that if you have faith, all things are possible. I’m not limiting the faith to a belief in God or a particular organized religion, but rather belief in yourself and your ability to have the skills and strength to guide yourself through any given situation. I’ll always believe that we are spirits having a human experience. My upbringing is Catholic, but I don’t believe in ‘fear of God’ or not being ‘worthy’ to accept communion – I say, “Lord I AM worthy and I thank you for your blessings” – we are all worthy, no matter what we believe.

I wish I knew why some people don’t die in accidents like these and why some people do. That’s a hard one to understand. Does anyone have an answer for that? How can we know? I mean, who or what makes that decision? But I’m still here, and there must be a reason. I think it’s because I’m here to teach, and share my love. Every time I meditate, I see brilliant white and golden light and am filled with so much love that I often cry. That’s my gift (from God).

I’m interested in knowing what all of you are doing now as far as your spiritual life is concerned. I’m just curious why you all feel the way you do. Care to share? Thanks. It’s really nice for me to be able to talk about these things, I appreciate your insights.

Wow. I have much to say now, but am about to leave for the weekend and will be out of town next week for work, but I do have a quick comment:

I appreciate your coments on rationale, Frank. My profession is QA/QC construction management of bridges, so I'm familiar with the specifications required to build them. Your calculations are correct and I've never taken the time to do them. Why? Because a part of me deep down believes in a higher power and I have put my trust in that. And I also believe it has inspired me to improve my life because I've had another chance. I have another story to tell that happened in 1986 that further enhanced my belief in spirit. I'll write more late next week.

Thanks for all the insights.

Edited by author 05-03-2002 10:35 AM
Rocky--I can give no authoritative answers for what happened to Tisha that day. I wasn't there. However, it does seem that before we settle on an explanation of "divine intervention," for these types of episodes, we should examine other plausible theories.

But setting aside any arguments about the details of what exactly happen, I think your earlier point needs more discussion. Why does Tisha believe she was saved by divine intervention? Why were her companions and the truck drivers also saved? Has her life served some higher purpose?

As you pointed out, why would she be saved by God, when he allows others to perish in floods, tornados, or terrorist attacks?

Tisha--I hope you will comment further on this.

Trish: glad to -- rocky.seaman@wcom.com

as to the other comments regarding an explanation, while your explanation is plausible, I tend to believe in something more extraordinary happening....seems to me we always try to discount what appears to be out of the ordinary, God like if you will, and try to rationalize it....just a thought.

David--Thanks, and good to have you drop by this site. Don't be a stranger!

Frank, that was a very compelling explanation.

I rather believe that there is always order and logic in the universe. The idea that a supernatural being can alter reality at his whim is just too frightening to consider.

Edited by author 05-02-2002 06:06 PM
Ah Yes, "Breakfast in America" by SuperTramp. I have fond memories of that music blarring down from the dorms at UCLA. Somewhere in the story there's a girl named Christie. However, I digress from my main topic.

Tisha- Something certainly happened on that bridge in Wisconsin so many years ago which had an impact on you and your companions. I absolutely will not minimize that event, but because I am doubtfull of a higher power, I am compelled to offer rational explanations.

Firstly, I believe that we humans have an internal defense mechanism which does not permit us to remain in full consciousness when our brains have determined that our death is imminent. Some people fully faint and collapse, while others might "blank out" for just a few seconds. It is the idea of being "paralysed by fear."
It sounds as if this is what happened to all of you while crossing that bridge. You saw death approaching, and the next thing you knew, you were on the other side of the bridge.

But how did you make it past those trucks? I do operate tractor-trailer trucks at my business, so I have some familiarity with trucks, trucking, and drivers.

I know that Tractor-Trailer trucks are only permitted to drive on State or U.S. Highways. Each lane of these Highways is 12 feet wide, thus a typical two-lane highway is 24 feet wide. The bridge you crossed was a two lane "concrete and steel" bridge, which should have had AT LEAST been 24 feet wide. Often, there is also a small shoulder area on bridges.

Tractor-Trailer trucks are 8 feet wide, and a average car is 6 feet wide. Thus, in theory, all of you could have passed on that bridge with room to spare!

Still, it would have been a very close call.

So I propose another scenario for what happened. You didn't see the second truck before getting onto the bridge, just as he didn't see you approaching. He begins to pass the first truck. You and your companions then see him and freeze up. The truck driver, being a professional driver who has faced many difficult situations in the past, realizes that there is still room to quickly pull over behind the first truck. He does so, and you shoot by him.
Sure, we are probably talking about split seconds and inches. By the time you regain your composure and look through your rearview mirror, those two trucks are a mile down the highway.

We have never talked about it since the day of the incident. Becky and her husband said nothing when I asked if they were ok, and seriously, they won't talk about it. Missy and I didn't discuss it for longer than a few minutes and had no explanation - I don't know if she's thought about it again. The people who I've told have all asked if they can call me when they're feeling down so they can re-energize their faith. I know it's helped me!

Rocky: I'd like to respond via e-mail and not talk about my personal life here. Want to give me your e-mail address?

WOW! What an incredible story! Gives me chills. While I don't doubt it happened, why is the question....if an angel or God intervened (I don't say superior being, becuase I don't believe in one other than God) why you, Missy, your friends or the truck drives? If that intervening took place, what about 9-11 or some other disaster? I say this, yet for me personally, since I was born premature and was suppose to die and beat the odds, I know there is a reason why I lived. Not sure why, probalby never will know, but I know there is a reason....In any event, thanks for sharing...

Question -- what do your friends say? I know you said they won't talk about it, but they must have said something....just curious.

Can't believe you remember I loved the Supertramp song! I still do and the funny thing is that I introduced my daughter to them as well....the legacy continues.

Where do you live/do etc?