I long for the day when the decisions of what should be built, are made by those who truly care, not those whom will profit, or prosper from it.

To Mr. America's Roof: (Post 1800)

   Once again I believe you are incorrect. In regard to the wedge of light, here are the details:

     The wedge of light is designed so that on each September 11th, no shadows will be visable between 8:46am and 10:28am. The basis of this assertion is hinged to the Autumnal Equinox, which falls on the 22nd of September every year. Since September 11th is only 11 days away from the Autumnal Equinox, certain qualities of light can be relied upon at that time.

     Many ancient civilizations relied on this very concept to mark time, as wrist watches and such were not available to them. The sun dial is a classic example of this, where the length of the shadows can tell a person alot about what time of day it is.

    Perhaps the finest example of this photo phenomenon can be found in Peru at Machu Picchu, where there exists an ancient astronomical observatory that contains a large stone. This large stone, called the Intihuatana Stone, was used to help the Incas figure out when the fall was coming by the length of the shadow that was cast by the stone. When the stone cast no shadow at noontime, they knew it was close to September 22nd, the Autumnal Equinox.

     So as you can see, this is not new age mumbo jumbo, but rather, it is a respect for the natural laws, a respect for ancient cultures, and a way that helps people to understand the world around them. In other words, these places had use in real world applications for science, farming and basic living.

      As for Libeskind's architectural blueprints, you seem so confused that I suspect you did not enter a submission for the competition. If you really want to be clear about what he designed for the memorial space, I'll be glad to explain it to you. Otherwise, it's a subject I'd suggest you stay away from. Suffice to say that nothing was buried in the original design. It was Arad's board that suggested moving things around, and that is why today the situation is such a debacle. Now, the families have to fight to get the 9/11 museum back above ground, into the spot where it was originally located and rightly belongs. One step forward, 1,000 steps back. Go figure.

Also, America,

   You are wrong about the 9/11 museum. The 9/11 Museum is contained inside the memorial quadrant. It floats above September 11th Place, being supported by the two cultural buildings. The site is bound on the north by Fulton Street and on the east by Greenwich Street. The entire memorial complex is west of Greenwich Street whereas the Wedge of Light sits east of Greenwich Street, between Greenwich and Church. Look closely at the rendering I posted. The museum is in red, the wedge of light is green, and Greenwich Street separates the two buildings. I know it's tough to see Greenwich street from that particular view, but trust me, it there.

    Please study the blueprints before commenting, Please.

/m1804 and /m1803
Why is it I get the impression that Daniel Libeskind himself is posting and reading here?

Anyway the image you posted from the memorial competition in /m1797 shows that the footprints were to be covered and that's why I say it was buried. But at least portions of the memorial would have been open.

The WTC Jury and Arad took it a hideous step further by placing the memorial underground with two holes in the roof.

The blueprints for the winning master plan are at:
http://www.renewnyc.com/plan_des_dev/selec...lideshow/slide4.asp

I would have posted it except that currently this forum is at its quota maximum and the QuickTopic doesn't let you post pictures from outside.

You are correct that the wedge of light was supposed to be an unbuilt area that was across the street (which is now to be occupied by the Port Authority $2 billion subway station) and is not the building that overhangs the memorial quadrant. "Floats over" is a euphemism for "bury."

You don't have to sell me on the merits of light from the Autumnal Equinox. I am perfectly aware of all the stories associated with the Equinox light and the Manhattan grid. I can give you locations in the United States where American Indians also have markings lined up with it. My point is that the wedge calculations were widely reported at the time to be off. I found it amazing that the memorial in Italy has three major elements -- the wtc ruins, the statue of liberty inscription, and the latitude -- and the latitude (which is easily checked) is wildly off. So you do have to wonder whether the wedge would have been off.

In any event it's hard to believe the wedge would have done much for providing light for a memorial that was to be buried 70 feet (later 30 feet) and covered with buildings.

The problems at Ground Zero have always centered on desires to rebuild and replace it in a different image and take away the images that were burned into the world's minds on that day. There's a quote on my site from Daniel Libeskind early in the process saying, "The obvious solution would be to keep the ruins." That is what everybody thought was going to happen after 911. That is what the "Giuliani Plan" was. There would not have been this chaos if the powers that be had moved in that direction. It's the same as preserving the Alamo, the Arizona and the Hiroshima Dome. Instead the move was for a newly designed theme park at Ground Zero.

I do not have a personal problem with Daniel Libeskind and I wish him well on his various endeavors. He merely submitted a proposal. It was Gov. Pataki who bought it.

Picture posting is ok again.

The man of steel
November 27, 2005

BY KEVIN NANCE ARCHITECTURE CRITIC


...

With Trump's blessing, Smith set to work on a design for a roughly 150-story building that would top out at 2,000 feet -- considerably higher than the world's current architectural peak, Taipei 101 in Taiwan.

It wasn't to be. On the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, Smith was in an SOM conference room in Chicago, preparing to present his design to Trump's team. They were all sitting down to look at Smith's schemes, pinned on a wall, when they got word that an airplane had crashed into one of the World Trade Center towers. They went to a television and watched, aghast, as a second plane hit the other tower.

"Everybody was devastated," Smith recalls. "I remember one of Donald's people saying they'd looked at buying the World Trade Center, but had decided against it because it was a terrorist target."

The meeting broke up without considering Smith's design scheme, and the next day he received a call from Trump, who was adamant that the design had to be significantly downsized.

"I just didn't want to be in a position where I was building a building that was too tall in light of what happened on Sept 11," Trump says in an interview. "I realized that the great dream of the very tall building in this country should no longer be a dream."

...

http://www.suntimes.com/output/nance/sho-sunday-towers27.html

25 nonprofits win 55G in Citibank grants
By DONALD BERTRAND
 
Some 25 nonprofit organizations supporting a range of community enrichment programs in Queens Community Board 2 are this year's benefactors of a grant program that has given back to the Long Island City community for 16 years.
The grants, totaling $55,000, are a part of Citibank's amenities grants program, which began as a four-year commitment in 1989 and is now entering its 16th year.

To date, more than $665,000 has been awarded through this program, which was designed as a giveback to the community when Citibank built its 50-story tower on Court Square.

"We recognize that community-based organizations are valuable vehicles for building and rebuilding neighborhoods and improving the quality of life in the communities where we live and work," said Eileen Auld, Citibank vice president and director of Community Relations for Queens, who presided over the award ceremony.

"We are happy to be able to continue our amenities grants program and salute the fine work of our nonprofit partners receiving these funds," said Auld, who grew up in Sunnyside.

The grants, which range in size from $500 to $4,000, include one for $1,000 to the Sunnyside Drum Corps.

"This money is significant because it is attached to a program which feeds the kids," said Tony Lana, drum corps executive director.

When the 62-member drum corps goes off to a parade or other function, it means hours without having a chance to eat, said Lana.

The grant will be used to provide snacks, pizza parties, hot soup and the like for the 7-to-17-year-olds when they return to their headquarters at the All Saints Anglican/Episcopal Church in Sunnyside.

Another grant recipient was Long Island City Roots, which is entering its third year.

The grant will be used to maintain a memorial to Firefighter Michael Brennan of Sunnyside who died at the World Trade Center on 9/11, said Noah Kaufman, executive director. The memorial is located on 47th Ave. between 29th and 30th Sts.

Barbara Coleman, vice president of the Woodside Civic Association, would like to see the grant used to place the names of the 10 soldiers from Woodside who died during World War I memorialized at the 1.7 acre Doughboy Park at the intersection of Woodside and Skillman Aves.

A doughboy sculpture was erected by the Woodside Community Council in remembrance of the local men and women who served in World War I. Funded by contributions from the public, the statue was dedicated on Memorial Day - May 30 - in 1923.

http://www.nydailynews.com/boroughs/story/369213p-314158c.html

/m1810
Thanks for the discussion, Open.

Talking about light prompted to look at the plans again more thoroughly.

The next chips to fall will be tall buildings along Church Street. 50+ story buildings along the street would block the sun from the east and shade Ground Zero for between half and a third of the day. You can bet there will be opposition to that.

At least the wedge of light made some effort to address the horrible shading problem.

For all my complaints about lack of real world specifics, I personally think that Daniel Libeskind master plan was the best of the lot and was the only one to realistically address the competing interests and specifications at the time (e.g., rebuilding the entire lost square footage along with a Lincoln Center South plus a memorial)

The only problem is that Pataki should have squashed the demands for rebuilding the entire lost footage when he had the mandate to do so and thus avoided the pile up that Daniel Libeskind was forced to design to.

Anyway, Open (or anybody) if you would like to continue this discussion off line (rather than than clogging this basically news posting forum), I can be reached at roger.rowlett@americasroof.com

Pataki appointment makes full LMDC board

NEW YORK (AP) _ Gov. George E. Pataki on Monday appointed business leader Robert Douglass to the Lower Manhattan Development Corp. board, creating a full 16-member board stacked with top advisers to Pataki and Mayor Michael Bloomberg to oversee development of the World Trade Center site.

Earlier this month, Pataki appointed to the board of directors James Kallstrom, his counterterrorism adviser, and Charles Gargano, chairman of the Empire State Development Corp. and vice chairman of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owns the trade center site. On the same day, Bloomberg, who has sought to exercise more control over development at ground zero, appointed six members, including top administration officials Daniel Doctoroff and Marc Shaw.
 
 Pataki and former mayor Rudolph Giuliani created the LMDC in 2001 after the Sept. 11 terrorist attack to oversee rebuilding. The mayor and the governor each can appoint eight members.

Douglass is the chairman of the Alliance for Downtown New York and the Downtown-Lower Manhattan Association.

The board recently had been working with 10 members. Its next scheduled board meeting is Dec. 15.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/new...ny-region-apnewyork

This discussion board is exactly for these types of discussions.

NYPOST.COM

The problem with reflecting absence

IT STINKS

By STEVE CUOZZO

WORD that the Port Authority has volunteered its services as construction manager for the 9/11 memorial is the worst news yet out of Ground Zero — but not because it means the PA is trying to muscle out the memorial foundation.

The real problem is the scary prospect that "Reflecting Absence" will actually be built as now conceived, in all its earth-hogging, morbid mediocrity.

The memorial scheme calls for a subterranean crypt and museum beneath waterfall-drenched Twin Tower footprints. Under-focused and over-engineered, it promises a result between mere disappointment and outright disaster.

It's considered impolite to criticize this design — first dreamed up by architect Michael Arad, then nudged along by Vietnam Memorial designer Maya Lin, later massaged by landscape architect Peter Walker and architectural firm Davis Brody Bond, and tweaked on an ongoing weekly basis by a horde of bureaucrats.

But as a few family-victim activists file suits aimed at seizing even more of Ground Zero's precious square footage for their own purposes, it's time to say enough — and maybe recapture some land already allocated for the memorial and put it to better use.

TO say that "Reflecting Ab sence" absolutely stinks is blasphemous. It's regarded as both disrespectful of 9/11's victims and their survivors and a threat to bogged-down fund-raising efforts.

But stink it does. (And that's the real reason fund-raising has lagged embarrassingly.)

Too big and too complex, the mostly subterranean project is more likely to induce claustrophobia than catharsis. Why must we venture through an underground labyrinth to mourn victims of an atrocity that took place high above ground and in broad daylight?

The memorial foundation crows that it has pledges for $100 million of the needed $500 million, a figure certain to mushroom. In fact, $100 million is peanuts — especially since half of it came from one nonprofit foundation and two Downtown-based companies (Bank of N.Y. and Deutsche Bank) that would surely be glad to see anything fill the empty pit that Ground Zero has been since the cleanup ended in 2002.

The foundation blames everything but the product itself. Before, it was the dispute over the since-booted Freedom Center. Now, they're squawking that donors will construe it as a "government project" if the PA sends in its engineers.

Sorry — but those cowed by a handful of noisy zealots are pretending not to see the Emperor's New Clothes. The obvious truth is, citizens by the millions have not fallen in love with "Reflecting Absence."

THE first error was to mistake size for substance. The me morial quadrant consumes seven of Ground Zero's 16 acres — an extravagant commitment to justify Gov. Pataki's calling it the "centerpiece" of the WTC site, and an exercise in gigantism as arrogant as the Twin Towers themselves were.

You can't grasp how big the memorial is from street level; for that you need to gaze down from a high floor of the new 7 World Trade Center, as I did last week.

By far the site's largest identifiable feature is the pair of tower footprints, each one acre. Yet they take up only a small fraction of the memorial ground, which is to be bounded by West and Liberty streets and newly extended Greenwich and Fulton streets.

You perceive, too, how little room this leaves for everything else: The Freedom Tower, three more office buildings, PATH station, cultural buildings and shopping mall — plus those new streets — are all tightly shoehorned into a narrow L around the memorial.

But shouldn't the memorial be enormously scaled, to re flect the full horror and toll of 9/11?

Of course, it need not be. The dead of 9/11 numbered under 3,000. The Vietnam War cost the lives of 58,000 Americans — yet Maya Lin's memorial in Washington, D.C., commemorates them eloquently and unforgettably in a wall a mere 493 feet long and 10 feet high.

Isn't there a difference, though, between memorializing soldiers who perished years earlier in a distant war and memorializing civilians murdered much more recently in New York? Doesn't the greater immediacy of 9/11 justify thinking big?

Maybe — but comparisons to the Washington project are unavoidable. It was Lin herself, as one of the LMDC's judges, who pushed for Arad's design. Fans of "Reflecting Absence" have exploited that fact, noting that Lin, like Arad, was largely unknown when her Vietnam design was chosen and that it first struck many as cold and abstract — implying by the supposed parallel that the Ground Zero project will prove every bit as successful.

IF Arad's plan looks cold, though, it's far from abstract: If anything, it's literal to the point of maudlin, depicting the Twin Tower footprints as resting places for the lost souls of 9/11.

Yet none of its numerous, expensively engineered and ultimately sterile components is likely to elicit the involuntary outpouring of emotion that overcomes visitors to the Vietnam Memorial. For this, we can thank Daniel Libeskind's master site plan, which earmarked the vast southwest quadrant for the memorial, plus Pataki's insistence that the footprints not be built upon.

Competition to fill so much space while leaving the footprints intact yielded a "winner" without a focus. Thus "Reflecting Absence" is full of elements that variously 1) likely can't be built as envisioned; 2) resemble an underground Las Vegas; or 3) will work (or not) depending on details beyond anyone's power to predict.

Start with focus: What, exactly, in all this sprawl, is the "memorial"? Is it the pools with water cascading (for no good reason) into smaller, square pools-within-the-pools? Or is it the meandering ramps visitors will navigate into the subterranean voids?

Is to be the underground vault's maze of corridors that look, in LMDC renderings, like an airport concourse? Or the memorial museum, dominated by a 240-foot-long chamber and full of pictures, artifacts and "contemplation" rooms? Where the Vietnam wall tugs at your heart, the only pain a Ground Zero visitor will likely know is sore feet.

ALTHOUGH it pretends to shun sentimentality, tomb- like "Reflecting Absence" embraces the comforting perception that victims' ashes lie in the earth beneath the footprints. But, although horrible to face, their molecular remains were also dispersed far and wide in the smoky holocaust.

Even if the remains had, as Arad's design implies, settled neatly into chambers beneath the towers, so literal a narrative of their fate deserves a better context than the gimmickry that will surround it.

How, for example, will the gigantic outdoor waterfalls work in winter? Will their splash and spray speak to us in some profound way, or will they look and sound more like the schlock found in suburban office parks?

Visitors underground will view the falls through windows like those in the walrus tank at the Coney Island aquarium. Precisely what historical or emotional need such a perspective serves is known only to the designers. And Walker's grove of oak trees around the pools seems only a feeble gesture to soften Arad's bleak original design, which set the pools in a barren plaza.

MAYA Lin's Vietnam Memo rial moves us to tears while containing, in a comprehensible space and form, the tragedy of a war that had no clear-cut beginning or end. "Reflecting Absence" does the opposite: A nightmare that unfolded in 90 agonizingly familiar minutes is diluted to the point of tedium — a theme park that forgot its theme.
http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost...74653&postcount=367

Groundbreaking for $2.4 billion Goldman Sachs building near World Trade Center site

By AMY WESTFELDT
Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK -- Politicians on Tuesday touted the groundbreaking of a $2.4 billion Goldman Sachs Group Inc. headquarters _ largely paid for by $1.65 billion in tax-exempt government bonds _ as the catalyst to lure other financial companies to millions of square feet of proposed office space at the World Trade Center site.

"If Goldman builds here, others will come. And we need others to come," Sen. Charles Schumer said at the ceremony to mark the beginning of construction on the 43-story tower.

 State and city officials went through months of negotiations to persuade Goldman Sachs with tax-exempt Liberty Bond and other incentives to build.

The company abandoned a plan earlier this year to build its headquarters just south of the trade center site, citing traffic and safety concerns about a proposed tunnel for vehicles underneath ground zero. The tunnel plan was scrapped and Goldman Sachs agreed to a deal in August, which also included $115 million in state and city incentives.

The $1.65 billion represents nearly one-fourth of the $8 billion allocated in the Liberty Bond program, which provides federally subsidized, tax-exempt financing for downtown Manhattan projects.

"Goldman Sachs has called Lower Manhattan its home for 136 years and we are proud to reaffirm our commitment to this neighborhood and to the city of New York," said Goldman Sachs chairman and CEO Henry M. Paulson.

Politicians including Gov. George E. Pataki and Mayor Michael Bloomberg said the Goldman Sachs lease represented a crucial anchor that would attract commercial clients to office space at or near the former trade center.

Trade center developer Larry Silverstein has plans to rebuild the 10 million square feet of commercial space destroyed on Sept. 11, 2001, including at the 1,776-foot Freedom Tower. He has also rebuilt Seven World Trade Center, which also collapsed on Sept. 11. He has no announced leases at Seven, which has 1.7 million square feet of office space, or at the Freedom Tower.

"We are today confirming the fact that lower Manhattan is the financial capital of the world and will be for a long, long time to come," Pataki said.

"We're making downtown a more attractive place to live and to work," said Bloomberg. But at a press conference after the event he said, as he has in recent weeks, that market conditions should dictate how much office space is built at the trade center site. Bloomberg has said recently that other uses such as housing or schools might fit the neighborhood better.

The Goldman Sachs headquarters, with 2.1 million square feet of office space to house at least 9,000 employees, is scheduled for completion in 2009.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/new...ny-region-apnewyork

New Era Of Development At Ground Zero
Goldman Sachs Starts Contruction Of Headquarters Across From World Trade Center Site

Goldman Sachs broke ground on its 'new' World headquarters today. It’s located just across the street from Ground Zero. For a while it looked like the financial giant would move elsewhere.

And as they shoveled dirt, you could almost hear the sighs of relief. The politicians breaking ground for Goldman Sachs' new headquarters were glad that the project was finally on tack.

Governor Pataki acknowledged the problems.

"This was not always an easy process. There were days we didn’t think that Goldman Sachs would be on this site,” Pataki said.

That was an understatement. The financial giant had at one time completely dropped its plans to locate downtown, citing security concerns and the sluggish pace of lower Manhattan development.

Part of the reason Goldman Sachs president Henry Paulson changed his mind was the pursuasiveness of Mayor Bloomberg and Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver.

Silver was overjoyed by the development.

“You've sent a loud and clear message to the business world that lower Manhattan is still the place to be and to grow this is the kind of message we need to send,” Silver told Goldman CEO Henry Paulson .

Goldman plans to bring 9,000 jobs to the area.

“Today,” said Paulson, “we reaffirm our commitment to Lower Manhattan and the city of New York, the financial capital of the world.

The Goldman ground breaking was regarded as a hopeful sign for the other projects at ground zero. Developer Larry Silverstein, whose 7 World Trade Center is nearly done --and nearly empty--says it will help him get tenants

http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_333121611.html

DEUTSCHE DEMOLITION

The biggest change in lower Manhattan's skyline next year - deconstruction of the 9/11- scarred Deutsche Bank building - will begin in earnest in February when the first pieces of the 40-story structure come down.

But New Yorkers can now get a preview of how the project will unfold, thanks to a computer-generated video that illustrates the project from beginning to end.

 
It's posted on the Lower Manhattan Development Corp.'s Web site (renewnyc.com).

The Deutsche Bank building, damaged and empty since the World Trade Center attacks, will be detoxified and disassembled in a yearlong project to clear the site for a new tower and a half-acre park south of Liberty Street.

The video depicts the complex process involved in sheathing the building with an air-tight container, cleaning it and then taking it apart piece by piece.

"The deconstruction plan for the Deutsche Bank will assure the building is taken down safely," said LMDC President Stefan Pryor. "A number of controls are in place to ensure the safety of the surrounding community."

Over the next two months, scaffolding and netting will continue to rise around a building that is riddled with a noxious stew including asbestos, dioxin and heavy metals that blew in from the collapsing Twin Towers.

Using its federal funds, the LMDC paid $90 million to buy the tower from its owner. The final tab for removing the building will be roughly $200 million.

http://cgw.pennnet.com/news/display_news_s...=HOME&NewsID=128260