Sathya Sai Baba, 2005, who is he?

Hi all, I am the moderator, welcoming you all.

I have read SO many Sai Baba pro and con articles and posts and threads, over the years. many have died of old age or of banning or of spamming by baba lovers/haters.

So now it is Febuary 2005. Who is Sai baba?
God?
a god?
a guru?
a charleton?
a sex molestor?
a fake?
a man?
---you make the call, and "why".

He is now about 80 years old, he says he will live till he is 95 or so. I read so little about him, now, in the press and media. no more books are for sale about him, unless one were to go to a website.

I will "offically" be Neutral here. I am trying to find out, myself, more about him. Thus this quicktopic might be a good way to get currant opinions and personal experiences about him.

freestone [birth certificate family last name!]

Edited by author 02-11-2005 06:39 PM
there was an old messege forum that had over 3100 posts to it, a vertible treasure trove of baba material pro and con.

http://www.quicktopic.com/8/H/qYarJBpGLW7G6/p8.1
and the last messege is at
http://www.quicktopic.com/8/H/qYarJBpGLW7G6
3164 messeges, and the forum is closed.
   there were a lot of jewels there for discerning people to read.

I noted that near the end, there were many anti-baba posters who posted under false names, and too too often!
>>>>
quote
She was quite serious and supposed it was karma. She had many years in Puttaparthi to observe devotees. Sadly, it seems that at least one of those devotees who went over the edge has made his way to this board. Why, I wonder, would anyone want to post under several alias names or steal other's names unless they had truly gone over the edge of sanity. Let there be Light....
quote.

people who use devious tricks to post, are Guilty of the same "evil" as that they accuse baba of doing!!
"the ends justify the means" has undone many many a social reformer, who ends up being One Of Them that he/she rails against!!

there is no way to access those 3100 posts randomly!
one must go backwards in sequence, or begin at the beginning url, UNLESS one knows the trick! one can right click on the link for the number...

<< 3109-3116 3101-3108 of 3172 3093-3100 >>
 
Who | When Messages (not accepting new messages)

 
Long-Time Devotee 3108
 
07-09-2002 02:19 AM ET (US)
 When I was a devotee of sb, I had a good devotee friend who lived for many years in Puttaparthi. She said to me in quiet honesty more than once, "I wonder why so many devotees go crazy??"
 
in that "3093-3100", above, righ clicking on it brings up
"copy shortcut"
then paste into the url field at the top of the browser.
http://www.quicktopic.com/8/H/qYarJBpGLW7G6/p3100.3093

press enter to get the PROBABLE error site not found messege! then you take that
http://www.quicktopic.com/8/H/qYarJBpGLW7G6/p3100.3093
  and change the url to
http://www.quicktopic.com/8/H/qYarJBpGLW7G6/p129
or
http://www.quicktopic.com/8/H/qYarJBpGLW7G6/p2559
or try other numbers, some work!!

freestone

freestone

hi:)

i'm new on this forum and i'd like to share my own opinion. First time i heard about Sai was about a year and a half ago, and then i started to read everything i could find about him so i know his words. There is a way too much big rumour made about who Sathya Sai Baba is. even though i have no proofs to show that he is a sex-molester 'in my opinion' saying that he is a charleton is a subjektive opinion, because i could also say that Pope John Paul II for example is a charleton if i only disagree with his teachings. people who find in his teachings something against their own religion, believes, can say that. I understand, they may be scared that they may lose something precious, their faith. another thing: Sathya Sai Baba isn't the first, and won't be the last person who teaches that not only he is a GOD, but also we are. i don't know if you can see a paradox that the author of the Conversations with God (Neale Donald Walsch), for example, wasn't called a charleton, but his teaching despite the form are nearly the same. Short version: i am who i am. you are too, and ..i love you. That was only an example, they're are countless. if you give yourself a time to be familiar with his teachings, and if you feel like they touch your heart decide in what you believe. if not, express your opinion but don't judge if you don't want to be judged. i know one thing that his words completely changed my life and let in some love i was looking for. i thank him from here for that. personally, i think he is great, and trust his words that sound true to me. as i said that's my own opinion and i'd like to hear what you think about it. I love you guys and have a nice life.

ps. please forget my English
Friend

HI I HAVE MET HIM IN HIS INTERVIEW ROOM, AND I HAVE HAD MANY EXP... I FEEL I KNOW WHAT HE IS ... PLS MAIL ME.

SSB teachings are not unlike many others in the world. I have had many interviews with SSB, been given rings, robe, ash etc. Had many private interviews one on one with him. I was 10 years with his teachings. I was related to and knew heads of the organization personaly. My first trip was when I was 16 years old. This is hard for people to exept when they never have had first hand experiences. My third private interview was the first time he massaged my penis. He did this twice to me and once to my brother. He forced my brother to have oral sex with him. He told me to stay away from girls and only be with him. He said "I am God"...do you want me to do this to you? No I did not want SSB to do anything to me but he did. When you are young and everybody says he is God, you have fear of saying no to him. As I became older, I realized that I had been interfeared with and that it had nothing to do with rising my kundalini energy or anything of the sort. He made me and my brother very sad for a long time. In my visits to him I also meet many students and other young men from all over the world who had had the same thing happen to them. Fear, confusion, shattered faith, broken families, broken marriges and most of all, taking away young mens purity that should be shared with a woman they love, not with a man materbating then and forcing oral sex. My brother and I are not the only ones this has happened to. SSB the man is very different to the teachings he gives. The truth has been given....Thank you

HI all, from Freestone, the "owner" of this list.

ah, the sex experiences!

I once read a sort of "confidential memo" that baba wrote, or talked about, to his inner circle. He spoke about how the Identification of Love, Truth, Goodness, with his FORM, has now got to stop!
[so many devotees think that baba *is* the Lord, the christmas wrapping paper on the present-box is the contents!]
he went on to talk about how love goodness truth has no form whatsoever.

I have a Guess!
baba made sure that no one would ever ever have a picture of baba on his/her wall ever ever again! In fact, to
dis-avow baba, deny baba and go back to Jesus or Mohammad or whatever...
[maybe the muslum idea that there should be no icons of God, in image form, is a very good idea!]

Thus now Tal Brooke, who was one of the very first people to find out about baba and his sexing men and boys, has become a very Fundamentalist christian, and, i think, as of a few years ago, has joined with some of the Yale[?]...Harvard[?] inner circle of devout movers and shakers in the intellectual christain movement, there.

after all, when you have a Direct Line to God, via Jesus, do you need *another* phone line?!!

thus baba deliberately, in some manner, chose this sex thing.

after all, he has told over and over about how he cares not what people think of him.

probably he will die alone, maybe even before his stated time of 94, 95, 96 years, that he has told how long he will live. to die alone with hardly any devotees, and most people would call him, via history's Judgement, a FAILURE!

thus i would recommend that one knows that the spiritual life has no form or shape and that this reality is not in a picture of a man!

I have a suspician that once i go to heaven, and visit that world of baba that baba says that all of his devotees go to after they die, and *IF* baba is who he says he is, then i would find, there, that all of the devotee's houses
have no trace at all of baba there! In fact no vistor would even be able to tell that this realm is "baba's realm", as there are no temples about him, no pictures or statues of him!
the only thing that one would find there is a lot of love, truth and good acts, by everyone to everyone around them, and there would be beauty in all of the surroudings!
no baba form.

freestone

To be or not to be?

Why are so many people needing somthing to worship? Why is there a need to bow down to a higher source as I did for so many years? As you said, Tal is now a Fundamentalist Christian. There is still teachings that go along with that but no direct communication with the source. No chance of the bad memories he had with SSB. When you said [maybe the muslum idea that there should be no icons of God, in image form, is a very good idea!] what perseption do you have then? I would think that simple is sweet. Perhaps my god is the air that I breath now. Maybe the only true temple is GOD... Great Out Doors. Nobody truly knows the real answers. What if there is absolutly NOTHING! When you have faith in one thing,then through what ever reason change to something else, claiming to all that this is the one, then you are not forfilled for what ever reason. What does one do? Bounce around from faith to faith or just give up the whole bloody thing and sweep it all under the mat. At the end of the day nobody TRULY knows the answer.

I have no problem with Tals choice of faith, good on him after what he has been through. I have been through the same things as he, but when your faith is crushed and you have lost your trust in the most beautiful teachings and words from so many walks of life...I am left with the one truth I know...and that is."Nobody Truely Knows"

I feel after all that has happened with SSB,I am left like a leaf blowing in the wind. He did not build my faith in God but rather destroyed it and the will to search.

First Hand

Edited by author 08-12-2005 09:17 AM

[quote]

 First hand experience 7
 
08-12-2005 02:23 AM ET (US)
SAYS....


To be or not to be?


I feel after all that has happened with SSB,I am left like a leaf blowing in the wind. He did not build my faith in God but rather destroyed it and the will to search.
[/quote]

=====================================




yes I feel your pain.

My blind friend, Bruce, who is a very "strong" person, and a very devout Christian of the Fundalmentalist flavor, says often to me, in his emails, "worship the creator, not the created"!

any "object" is created, like even sai baba is a created form! The creator, being "above" form, is what one should worship. all forums will eventually DIE!

I also find, from reading of esoteric stuff, that in the higher heavens, thoughts, laws, ideas, are also "things"!
they are not to be worshipped either! In fact, the lower heavens change over time, only the upper, celestual, heavens are Permanent.
Hell exists too, i have been there, seen some of it, and you do *not* want to go there to live!

If baba has any merit, as something to worship, then it would be the "entity" behind and above baba. in fact, some of his "ex" worshippers, write how they pray to the
"greater baba"! they do not have any pictures of baba in their homes. nor do they have any image of him when they pray.

I have experienced many dreams, myself, where I have been taken, by Guides of some sort, to see and to experience places in the heavens, much like Paul was taken up to see the heavens, to the third heaven, he writes.
Yes, i have seen many levels of heavens, from healing centers for the newly arrived, to schools of progressions.
i have seen my own "deceased" sister graduate from such a school, Jesus himself took all of the 50 or so students to a higher heaven.
[this here freestone thusly has seen Jesus as a Living Spirit, he Exists, truely!]
Wince!
I, yes, have also seen baba in my dreams and for many dreams. there was one where he lectured, gave a lecture on the "dead", the souls who live without spirit in their hearts. "the unsaved", in Jesus's terms!
most of my baba dreams are where i just see him somewheres.

[oh i could write pages about this baba experiences of mine, not in this reply though, i will dribble some out as time goes by and then more, if this Forum becomes popular!
Be aware that I am *not* a "devotee" of baba! I eat meat and live a western life, i have no pictures of baba in my apartment. I do not feel that all that he does is "nice"!!]

I have some of my own dream experiences written up at my yahoo page group. you may, if interested, come to read some of my heaven visits, in the "files" section.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestonefiles/

my weblog is at
http://freestone.blogspot.com
"my life after near death experiences"

freestone

Who are you?
Who are you in the traveles of your dreams? Who are you in the wakeing day? How do you think I can have faith in your dream time! Have you ever had a physical experience of your travels when you are not asleep!!! Sleeping dreams have so much to do with what you have eaten before sleep, drucken before sleep and also the amount of sleep you havent had before the experience! I am not cutting you down. I am simply a person who has heard so many people like yourself, crap on with this type of shit and you truly have no proof of what you are saying. Its people like you that cause great discomfort in people that are not strong in mind and have nothing to turn to, and believe the first thing that is said to them. You must be carefull in your truth, for many people might feel less than you. It is not there fault but a journey they must travel without your dreams of misplacement!

Going to heaven and hell is a personal mis conception that has only happened in your dreams. Like SSB, you are someone that can be dangerous to the inosent that have a simple truth but will listen to all because they are seeking.

Be carefull my friend, SSB`s ashram is full of people like you,

LIVE A SILENT TRUTH

I have known Sai Bab for 30 years - the past ten years from a very personal level. I also spent two whole years in the ashram (or outside it). There is nothing to indicate that Sai Baba of Puttaparthi is a charlattan. But in Bukkampatnam, about two miles out of Puttaparthi is a charlattan who dresses up as Sai Baba, does some tricks and generally tries to lead devotees away. If you are a new devotee going to Puttaparthi - there are a 50% chance you could end up in Bukkampatnam and meet the other "Sai Baba".

QT - Nalinesh <qtopic+29-FE68KidtskS@quicktopic.com> wrote:
--QT------------------------------------------------------------- Reply by email or visit
http://www.quicktopic.com/29/H/FE68KidtskS/m10
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I have known Sai Bab for 30 years - the past ten years from a
very personal level. I also spent two whole years in the ashram
(or outside it). There is nothing to indicate that Sai Baba of
Puttaparthi is a charlattan. But in Bukkampatnam, about two
miles out of Puttaparthi is a charlattan who dresses up as Sai
Baba, does some tricks and generally tries to lead devotees
away. If you are a new devotee going to Puttaparthi - there are
a 50% chance you could end up in Bukkampatnam and meet the other
"Sai Baba".
_________________________________________________________________

that is nice to know, the real thing always has soon a counterfeit! The real Baba is so busy that surely, as he himself says, "no one comes here to see me unless I bring them"!
 

freestone




seen on a bridge overpass, in Rochester, ny 1970
..."AND THE TRUTH WILL MAKE YOU LAUGH"!

Freestone Wilson
freestonew@yahoo.com
weblog....
http://freestone.blogspot.com

hi all, from freestone, the moderator.

I have found a site, that for me, is an Amazing site, about the Expose of Sathya!

http://www.saisathyasai.com/

Here, this person exposes the exposers!

I will post some of what he found, in summery, in a cut and paste of some of the front page, go to read this if you are interested!
==================


SATHYA SAI BABA: Lies & Anti-Sais
 
 
ExBaba.com Deception

Insightful and astonishing facts about the portal to the largest Anti-Sai site on the internet, ExBaba.com. An exhaustive page for page analysis.


SATHYA SAI BABA
• DOCUMENTARY: Secret Swami
Anti-Sai Film

A documentary that not only misrepresented Alaya's testimonies, against the Indian Guru Satya Sai Baba, but failed to take into account vital information about Alaya Rahm.


SATHYA SAI BABA
• DOCUMENTARY: Seduced By Sai Baba
Anti-Sai Film

Contradictory testimonies from Conny Larsson, Jed Geyerhahn and Alaya Rahm, examined. Also talks about Ojvind Kyro and his unsubstantiated claim to being in possession of 10 affidavits.


SATHYA SAI BABA
• SATHYA SAI BABA: Mirror Site
 SaiGuru.net Deception

An Anti-Sai site that duplicates articles from ExBaba.com (and other Anti-SSB sites) and tries to pass itself off as an "independent" site.

SATHYA SAI BABA
• 20 YEAR UNTRUTH: Skeptics Untruth Exposed
A False Claim

James Randi related a story about Sam Dalal (regarding a Seiko watch miracle attributed to Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba) over 20 years ago, that was shown to be 100% incorrect. All it took was one email to disprove this untruth.

SATHYA SAI BABA
 • WITNESSES: Alaya Rahm
 Withheld Information

An extensive look into the various sexual abuse testimonies made by Alaya Rahm, along with interesting observations and two insightful transcripts.

SATHYA SAI BABA
 • SAIPETITION.NET: Online Petition
Petition Against SSB

Exposing the deceptive practices, additions, alterations, deletions and false claims made by the "petition" administrators against Sathya Sai Baba and the Sai Organization.


SATHYA SAI BABA
• CORRESPONDENCE: Emails Sent/Received
From The Source

Emails from Anti-Sai Activists and their unusual, bitter and angry remarks and responses to valid concerns and questions.


SATHYA SAI BABA
• ALLEGED SEXUAL ABUSE: Witnesses
16 Alleged Victims

16 people are listed as allegedly being sexually abused by Sri Satya Sai Baba (a.k.a. "Swamiji"). Fake names, contradictions and oilings discussed.

SATHYA SAI BABA
• CHRISTIAN ATTACKS: & Sathya Sai Baba
Anti-Sai Movement

Anti-Sai Activists have denied that there is a Christian Anti-Sai/Hindu movment. My research has uncovered that there are definitely Christians who are Anti-Sai/Hindu. This article highlights Christian advocates (many fundamentalists) who actively disperse propaganda against Sathya Sai Baba on the internet.




SATHYA SAI BABA
 • AFFIDAVITS: Sworn Testimonies?
 Where are they?

Numerous claims to "affidavits" filed against the Indian Baba. Not even one affidavit has been made public, despite rampant claims.

SATHYA SAI BABA
 • U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: Sai Baba Advisory
 The Real Story

The real reason behind the U.S. State Department's warning for Puttaparthi Ashram travelers and how Anti-Sathya-Sai Activists revealed it was their unremitting efforts that brought about the warning.

SATHYA SAI BABA
• UNESCO: Withdrawal
 Just The Facts

The Unesco and Flinders University Withdrawal from the ISSE (Institute of Sathya Sai Education) Conference and how Anti-Sai Activists boasted on how they accomplished it by "e-bombing" various officials and resorting to group thuggery tactics.

============================

MY COMMENTS

nasty nasty!
After i had read some of this, I felt in a bad mood. Here are people who try to expose Sia baba, who are not in truth in and of themselves. From a "baba sex" guy who was himself apparently under therapy for the same child sex offenses, when younger, to e-mail bombings to rants, you name it.

I have a friend who once told me that there was a colalition of christian fundamentalists who have an agendy to tear down ALL Hindu living Gurus, not just sai baba. To make them all look so bad, in people's eyes, that people would only go for the Fundamentalist approach to spiritual life!
    No wonder most of Europe is "christian free"! no sane or intelligent young person would want to touch christianty, and i can well well see why!

I also had my friend tell me that many of the "old school"
hindu gurus do not like baba, or any of the "modern" Gurus either! the old school gurus feel that no guru should ever ever come out of seclusion, they should stay in their cave! here baba comes out into the world, a "no-no", to their way of old life!

here is a link to an interesting forum about the people who
are "anti-baba"! all of these critics of baba seem to have great personal problems and they all seem to be of the very worst hyprocrits!

http://www.saisathyasai.com/baba-forum/


freestone

I was a devotee of Sathya Sai Baba for just over a decade, and made six trips to see him in India. Now no longer a devotee, I use this blog to record memories, comments and muses on the SB scenario and also point out inaccuracies in SB's philosophical and theological presentation.

http://saibabaexposed.blogspot.com/

Edited by author 01-05-2006 10:29 PM
I was wandering what the anti SB lobby thought of Shirdi Sai Baba? Once can be sure there are the usual violent-monotheists or fundamentalists that once crucified Christ are more or less the same lot we have in their modern incarnations in today's Cyber Age ?

Edited by author 01-14-2006 10:51 PM
Alien, my personal opinion whether Sathya Sai Baba is the reincarnation of Shirdi Sai Baba is undecided. You can view an essay I wrote back in June 2003 where I commented and questioned the link between the two:

http://saibabaexposed.blogspot.com/2002/07...iva-or-sadhaka.html

As for Shirdi Baba himself, I respect him as a great saint. Whatever I have read of him has impressed me and although I disagree with that tradition on minor points, I have no doubt that he is still a living presence of sorts.

I am not student or devotee, but to the Supreme. In finding all that many faces can be attained in ones garden, all faces are mine even that of Sai Baba. If the world would waste more time, in the discovery of all the faces it carries, those hidden those shown to delight, the world would be a peaceful place for all faces. A person, creature or thing, even that beyond is far from wholeness till it where's all the faces to reach love. Between desires and temptation are the spoken words of hosted bodies that speak only what one wishes too attain. Humanity spend energy in your own discovery, rather in the discovery of any host of body or bodies, perhaps this garden of mine, will stand with good. All faces then could reach infinite peace here or beyond, your garden and your neighbors. Live your life, not desire anothers. If you belong not in a house whether it be Sai Baba or mine then find your house. Silence yourself, for in talking to much one takes the breath of a child being born. The energy one exalts to say non-good, is double the effort. For in saying nothing is something, to say to much is too be lost.

i have one question for "Sai Baba Exposed", why did u stop believing in baba? u must have a special reason... i was just curious but u dont have 2 answer it...

Edited by author 04-18-2006 10:33 AM
 from freestone the moderator...
 
04-15-2006 10:22 PM ET (US)
 [student said....]
i have one question for "Sai Baba Exposed", why did u stop believing in baba? u must have a special reason... i was just curious but u dont have 2 answer it...
---------------------------------------

freestone says......

from what I can tell, there might be two reasons, I see this a lot with baba and the devotees.
1...the devotee gets bothered by some seeming inconsisticies, but the devotee might not realize that baba is drawing from his own Spirit the info and baba might know much much more about it than the devotee!

2...more importantly, the kitten has got to be weaned! thus many devotees are baba-encouaged, by baba even "turning on the devotee" to make the devotee walk away and come back home and then to begin his life!
baba might have wanted to connect this devotee to the Spirit of baba, or the spirit of the Lord, within his heart, and then thus the outer baba should not be needed anymore! once you have that cell phone, the public phone booths are not now needed! so the pupil is encouraged to leave and if he does not get the message, baba might "force" him to leave by some "sex act" rumor appearing, or the like, so that this devotee might have to , say, return to america or england, marry, get a job, live his life with Spirit in his heart, even if it is with Jesus, not baba, as jesus is the 9th Avatar, and whther jesus or baba, the connection is to the Lord!

freestone

One cannot say "These people are criticising Sai Baba, they are scum, worthy only of Naraka (Hell)." Whilst many may wish this to be true, Sai Baba admonishes with love and enjoins with both the law of love and the law of karma. Hence, everyone gets back exactly what they give out.If any body abuses you, take no note, for the abuser is abusing only the body and not your Self. If somebody calls you a bad man, do you become a bad man by mere calling? If in fact, you have something bad in you, try to destroy it. There are a large number of people in this Kali Yuga who abuse God because their wishes are not fulfilled. This is a universal habit common to all countries. You should not succumb to such mean and unholy feelings. Thyagaraja, for example says, that God will manifest to you only to the extent and manner in which you approach God. Whichever way one conceives the Godhead, God appears to him in the same form. If your emotions are good, you get corresponding results.Hatred, jealousy and ostentation have become widespread these days. Get rid of these and get into the principle of love. Whether your desires are fulfilled or not, think that all that happens is good for your good. When you encounter difficulties, always think that better days are ahead. Good and bad are always mixed. Therefore, take both of them with the same attitude.

The person using the name "saibabaexposed" is none other than Sanjay Kishore Dadlani. Sanjay attempts to take a moral and ethical stance against Sathya Sai Baba and is the current mouthpiece for the Anti-Sai movement (receiving the full support and promotion from ALL Anti-Sai Sites).

What Sanjay does not say, however, is that he has been fully exposed for: 1) Pathological Lies; 2) Requesting Jesus, Disney and Biblical Pornography; 3) Creating a vulgar boot-fetish blog that exploited teenagers, women and female students, among many other things.

Such are the exposers of Sathya Sai Baba

Anti-Sai Campaign is a Farce
After three years and thousands of hours of research into the issues, I have come to the conclusion that the allegations against Sai Baba are more than highly suspicious to say the very least. None of the accusers have ever even tried to file charges in India as required by law. Instead they have played judge, jury and sentencer over the internet. They have contradicted themselves and changed their stories and have absolutely no corroborating witnesses or evidence. They have lied about signing legal affidavits which were notarized. It appears they have lied about Hari Sampath's supposed trip to the Supreme Court of India on May 8, 2001, which is not listed anywhere on the Supreme Court website.
Almost all accusers were grown men (foreigners) whom it appears the anti-Sai group used to try and create the illusion they were "children" who had been sexually abused when, in fact suspiciously, they were adults-some as old as 30 years! Almost all cases are now past the eight year Indian statute of limitations. Most of those pushing the allegations have hidden agendas such as being evangelical Christians, Catholics, anti-Semites and/or white supremacists or atheists! There are even wanted criminals in the group of detractors, including an evangelical Christian who runs a website from the Netherlands and is wanted in California for failing to register as a sex offender after spending six months in prison! If anyone should be investigated, it should be the hate group stalking Sathya Sai Baba.
And HOW many times will it have to be explained to the democratically, ethically and mentally challenged anti-Sai group that NO investigation is launched into any crime in ANY country UNLESS there is an actual victim, willing to take legal responsibility, who FILES FORMAL charges in the COUNTRY where the crime was committed? For some strange reason Robert Priddy, et al, seem to have great difficulty understanding this VERY simple concept of the presumption of innnocence but would rather continue to demonize the Indian government in their blatant and extremely deceptive propaganda campaign. Saisathyasai.com has done an excellent job documenting this deception.
The simple FACT is that not ONE of the alleged victims has filed charges in India. Not one of them EVEN tried to file charges! This nonaction is VERY suspicious in itself. But you cannot get the anti-Sais to understand this because they live in a fantasy world where they think they can make up the rules as they go.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Persecutors_...ba/?yguid=131958149

Lisa & Joe - Do you two twits have nothing better to do than to disturb Sai Baba discussion groups and plague them with irrelevant information? Try sticking to the topic and discuss/defend Sai Baba for once.


Arielle - Whereas you have a point, that logic does not work in the real world. If you know someone is a murderer and call them out, does that make you a murderer? If you know someone who beats up his wife, does that make you an abusive spouse? Similarly, where Sathya Sai Baba has been called into question over alleged homosexual paedophile activities, murders and other things, it is also a matter of growing concern that he has little or no spiritual authority either. In my view that is the most important thing; millions of people are being influenced to believe in somebody and live their lives according to the teachings of someone who is a sham and a fraud. If Sai Baba cannot even tell us the truth about his own "divinity", then how can you expect him to tell the truth about his criminal activities?


Student - I have written something on my blog about it, here:

Why I Left Sai Baba (In Brief)

Freestone -

1 I have no idea what you are referring to here.

2 If you read my blog link above, you'll find that despite vigorously and strenuously defending Sai Baba from paedophilia and murder allegations on an almost daily basis for a continuous period of ten months, I left Sai Baba of my own accord and had little or nothing to do with the sex allegations.

As I state very clearly on my blog: "I was a hardcore follower of Sathya Sai Baba for just over a decade, and made six trips to see him in India. Now no longer a devotee, I use this blog to record memories, comments and muses on the Sai scenario and also point out inaccuracies in Sai Baba's philosophical and theological presentation."

That's it in a nutshell. I was never "forced" to leave Sai Baba through his "intangible will" or anything like that, although I recognise your right to think differently. I left Sai Baba and realised his fraudulence through my own research of his teachings and philosophy. What he teaches and claims to have advented to uphold is not in line with the Vedantic and spiritual philosophy that he claims to espouse.

I think that it's very important to realise how much of a fraud Sai Baba is through his own sayings and doings. This is what I document in my blog. No amount of spiritual 'apologising' by his enamoured devotees can change the simple fact that he is not who he says he is.

Edited by author 04-27-2006 12:48 PM
Here's some examples of where I have documented my experiences:

Sai Youth - SEX - - (Update)

Sai Youth - DRUGS

Sai Youth - ROCK & ROLL

Sai Baba - A Whiff Of Fraud

"Sai Krishna" Lie Surfaces Again

Sai Baba's Hypnotic Sex Defence

German Woman Alleges Rape In Puttaparthi

Readers have the choice to believe what I have written or not. The point being is that not everything smells of roses in Sai Baba's garden. Sai Baba may have have a lot of positive factors about him and has done positive things, but it's about time due publicity was given to the increasing concerns that are growing larger and larger as time passes.

By the way, I am not the "current mouthpiece" of the "Anti-Sai Movement" as some people would like to think. I am a vocal critic and ex-devotee, that's it.

hi all. Time to post this URL again

http://www.saisathyasai.com/

his own purpose: to expose the "exposers of Sai baba!
in his words.....

[quote]
----Why is the purpose of this site?


On these pages, I document the shocking and very disturbing online behavior, attacks and smear campaigns waged by Anti-Sai Activists. These pages sum up my entire view about Anti-Sai Activists and how they are a mob of angry, vindictive and hateful individuals who place their own agenda of deceit and dishonesty above all else.

expose the lies, deceit, misrepresentations, conflations, exaggerations and contradictory allegations made against SSB by Anti-SSB Activists who disperse their propaganda on websites on the internet.
=========

If you are not a devotee, why did you create this website?

My Response: I believe the only type of person who can present a balanced view into the SSB debate is one who is extremely familiar with SSB but not to the extent of making excuses for SSB (as devotees generally do). As one will notice on my site, I provide links to all the articles I take issue with or discuss. I do not try to suppress other viewpoints. However, Anti-SSB Sites refuse to provide links to my site and have even banned my site from linking to them. I think this proves that Anti-SSB Sites have much to fear and operate on the premise of deceit, lies and suppression to promote their agenda of hate and propaganda at any cost
=============

Why would anyone want to lie about Sathya Sai Baba?

My Response: There are many people who would want to lie about Sathya Sai Baba. Click Here to read my article containing factual information regarding the Christian Anti-Sai/Hindu movement. The International Sai Organization is composed of millions of people and is seen as a direct threat by orthodox, evangelical and fundamentalist Christians. Christians were spreading Anti-Sai propaganda many years before the accusations that were later to be made public.
=============
[/quote]

You ought to have over an hour to read his site, there are a *lot* of stuff there: seems that he makes a case for that many of the baba critics
have terrible problems of their own, and that many of them lie and slander as they hate baba so much.

Many of the baba haters work as a "organized group" apparently, as they belong to fundamentalist Christian organizations!
[quote]

The Christian Anti-Sai/Hindu Movement

For several years, many people have claimed that there are Fundamentalist and Evangelical Christian movements against Sathya Sai Baba and Hinduism. Anti-Sai Activists have continually denied that such movements exist and have tried to dismiss these "rumors" as paranoia and excuses for Anti-Sai activity. However, Anti-Sai Activists have been wholly unconvincing considering that they have documented their efforts to polarize Christians, against the Indian Guru, on their own sites! The following is a list to Fundamentalist and Evangelical Christian sites, people and organizations that oppose Sathya Sai Baba and Hinduism:

http://www.saisathyasai.com/baba/Ex-Baba.c...-sai-movements.html

[/quote]


freestone

Edited by author 04-28-2006 12:25 PM
Freestone,

I remember you from when you used to contribute to discussions in the Yahoo Groups. I have not seen you around until very recently by virtue of this forum.

I see that you have been easily led by this propaganda. I find it incredibly ironic that the owner of that website - while claiming to document the shocking and very disturbing online behavior, attacks and smear campaigns waged by Anti-Sai Activists [and] expose the lies, deceit, misrepresentations, conflations, exaggerations and contradictory allegations made against SSB by Anti-SSB Activists who disperse their propaganda on websites on the internet - completely ignores his own guilt of all those things and even more.

I have no need to mention more as Moreno's "concerns" may be fully addressed at an appropriate time. Suffice it to say that we have nothing to worry about considering the very sparse refutation of most of our claims, deflecting attention away from the issues surrounding Sathya Sai Baba to concentrate on other irrelevant things.


>> I believe the only type of person who can present a balanced view into the SSB debate is one who is extremely familiar with SSB but not to the extent of making excuses for SSB (as devotees generally do) ... I do not try to suppress other viewpoints. However, Anti-SSB Sites refuse to provide links to my site and have even banned my site from linking to them. I think this proves that Anti-SSB Sites have much to fear and operate on the premise of deceit, lies and suppression to promote their agenda of hate and propaganda at any cost. <<

It might interest you to know that whereas he claims not to be a devotee, he nevertheless acts as a devotee. He has a total of three pro-Sai sites, two of which include devotional content with pictures, biographies, and the like. The amount of time he spends defending an individual he claims not to believe in frankly makes him look a little silly. Suffice it to say, he has no need to make "excuses" for Sathya Sai Baba because he himself believes that Sai Baba has sexually abused men.

The old version of his page stated the following:

"I am not a Sathya Sai Baba devotee. Nevertheless, I have had many positive, powerful and spiritual experiences with SSB, as I have had with any other spiritual personalities. I do not belong to, go to, or affiliate myself with SSB Centers or the SSO."

The new page has a significant change:

"I am not a Sathya Sai Baba devotee. I was a devotee from the age of 18 to the age of 25. I had/have basic philosophical differences of opinion, with several aspects to SSB's teachings (in particular, God Concepts & Karma), and I left the Sai Movement for that reason. Nevertheless, I have had many beautiful, powerful and spiritual experiences with SSB, as I have had with many other spiritual personalities. My opinion about Sathya Sai Baba (based on my personal experiences with him) is positive. I do not belong to, go to, or affiliate myself with SSB Centers or the SSO. I am an open-minded (but not gullible) agnostic."

The reason he changed thus was because he was feeling the heat from people who were openly wondering why he has committed a significant amount of time and energy writing in defence of a troubled avatar who he does not believe in. It was a move to gain legitimacy for his viewpoint by claiming that he has a reason for investment. Even then he fails, as his current activity does not represent his current beliefs about Sai Baba.


And as for claiming that anti-Sai sites have banned him from linking to their websites, this is an exposed lie. A short while ago Moreno tried to come up with a fancy explanation about htaccess files and how ExBaba was using one against him. Just a tiny problem, Exbaba has never employed any htaccess files or other such things against him. No anti-Sai site has banned Gerald Moreno from linking to their site. I have consulted with the technical operative behind these sites and they have all confirmed that they have never banned Moreno.

There are also incidences of Moreno's displaying unclickable links to other anti-Sai sites such as Conny Larsson's site and my blog. Neither of these sites have blocked Moreno yet he still displays unclickable links to these sites claiming that he is blocked from linking to them. This lie has been in effect since December 2004 and this means that Moreno has been lying about this issue since that time.


>> Many of the baba haters work as a "organized group" apparently, as they belong to fundamentalist Christian organizations! <<

There is no "organised group", and neither do Expose Activists belong to Fundamentalist Christian organisations. Whereas it may be so that some activists are of the Christian religion, does this necessarily mean that there is collusion or affiliation with any organisation with an agenda? Can't it be possible for ex-devotees to be "normal" Christians? This itself is a very popular lie amongst Sai Baba defenders, who have exposed themselves as clowns in a most ridiculous manner. Do you seriously believe that, for example, a Muslim who was educated in a school with a Christian vision becomes a Fundamentalist Christian?

In many ways this site contains false, malicious and defamatory content which will be exposed in the future, so I have nothing more to say except to tell you not to believe everything that you read. I have already written way more than I intended to write and have nothing more to say except to leave it for the future. I suspect that either Moreno or De Witt may respond to this but I will not be replying except to discuss Sathya Sai Baba, "Who is he?"

I'm also highly disappointed that you clearly have nothing to say regarding my points of view, and are simply indulging in the spread of malicious and hateful propaganda instead. I thought that this forum was a place to discuss "Who is Sathya Sai Baba?", but clearly I was wrong. But as I said earlier, nothing can distract from the fact that not everything smells of roses in Sai Baba's garden and no amount of 'apologising' for Sai Baba by his enamoured devotees can change the simple fact that he is not who he says he is. People can say anything they like about ex-devotees because they have very little to say in Sai Baba's defence.

well, maybe it is time for me to take off a layer of "gloves" and write a bit about myself!

I essentually side with both sides of the baba controversy! I began this
forum mostly to feel out what people today think and feel about baba.

the "real" baba forums seem to be filled with young devotees that are as fervently pro-baba that they are as "fundamentalist" as any chrasmic christian at their worst! they do not wanna hear a bit about their god
might also have a bowel movement once a day or so!! kill ya for mentioning anything anti-baba.

and the anti-baba people often are so full of anger, even if rightiously so.

me?
I would not go to India of my own free will, I cannot even go to church comfortably, here in America! I do not believe in Gurus or people who tell you how to live your life.

in fact, my own philosophy runs a bit like this: how in heaven or hell's name can you become saved unless there is a you there to become saved with?! how can you transcend your ego unless you first have an ego?!

gotta do the steps, miss one, in the child-development series [pegout[sp]], and you never catch up! most of us *think* we have an ego, but often this "ego" is only made up of other people's stuff that you ate and never did chew: swallow whole! often "you" is composed of your family, your small town, your peer group, your country, your race, and NONE of it might be yours!

the closests belief system that i can feel for is the SET group.
http://www.xeper.org/
and a disciple says....essentually that the Set people are to become Themselves, to be an individual and to Wake Up.
http://www.balanone.info/tosintw2.html
more info.

One of my many hobbies is to try to figure out the motivations of people and to see how and why people follow masters and cults.

I am finding reality to be a strange and sticky thing, as i get ever the older.


I have heard so so many "horror stories" about church politics, fundamentalist religion absolutes, slavish devotion of people to cults east and west, that I plan, in my few years left to me, to make sure that
I stay far far away!

the oringinal sin.....as i see it...is that people pass their shit to thier kids and then they kids grow up and pass it on to theirs!
i read that 80% of battered kids will grow up to batter their kids!!
[nievely i would have thought the opposite!!]
probably many of the baba devoteess and the anti-devotees have had terrible childhoods!

the Bible says that all of us have sinned, the reincanationalists feel that everyone on the planet has murdered someone, in some life, thus
every single one of us has feet *and* legs of CLAY!
i probably, in my mind at least, have committed nearly every single sin in the book!

so i am not a devotee of baba. i just started this forum, as i say above, to get a "core sample" of the present day feelings pro and con about baba.

I once, at a university town, went to a baba group meeting only to incur the authoitativeness of the leader, a apparently typical Indian man who was
very powerful and overbearing, not to my taste at all. end of that.

thus i like individualism.

freestone

I'll aptly note that despite Sanjay Dadlani's accusations of "malicious and defamatory content" on my site, he does not cite the pages or provides any links to examples of such.

Regarding the assocation of the ex-baba administration with fundamentalist Christians, the ex-baba site recently posted a full sized banner to a fundamentalist Christian site on ALL their main pages and quickly removed them after I commented on them: See for yourself.

Far be it for Sanjay (the pervert who went around stalking innocent women and posted his boot-fetish pics on his StreetBitches blog) to point his pudgy Hare Krsna fingers at me and say that I do not provide links to his blog after he deleted my message from his blog saying he does not approve of people advertising their sites on his blog. Take a look at his blog and all Sanjay does is advertise Anti-Sai Sites! Why doesn't Sanjay provide clickable links to my site and to the articles he dissents with? Why doesn't Conny Larsson provide clickable links to my site? Hypocrisy clear and simple.

There is no reasoning with a self-professed drunk and a pathological liar. Period. End of discussion.

Sanjay can spew his toxic waste as a distraction until he is a curmudgeon as old as Priddy, O'Clery, Larsson, et al but the simple fact of the matter is that the anti-Sais have ZERO credibility. Why? Because even though they claim to have "hundreds" (O'Clery claimed thousands) of alleged sexual abuse victims, they cannot come up with even ONE credible corroborative witness. NOT ONE! The only alleged victim who claims to have told someone he was molested by Sai Baba directly after he came out of the interview room was Keith Ord who was in his mid-twenties at the time (1990). Alexandra Nagel claims he told her, yet Ord does not even mention Nagel in his online statement. And Nagel refers to Keith as "K" in her diary as if she is trying to hide Keith's identity for some reason. And making matters even more dubious, it turns out that Joe Moreno was at the ashram at the same time Keith alleges he was mishandled by Sai Baba and talked to Keith in depth about his interviews. During those discussions, Joe says Keith did not mention anything about being molested. In 1993, Keith Ord did an interview with a Dutch journalist (article posted on exbaba.com Dutch site) and told him Sai Baba's genitalia morphed supernaturally from male to female!

Yet the anti-Sais still insist to this day that Keith Ord and all alleged victims are "credible," even though their stories are riddled with these kinds of contradictions.
Yes, in EVERY case that I have researched I have found these type of story anomalies. It is as if each alleged victim is dangling a carrot in front of you saying, "Believe me because I am a "victim," yet they cannot come anywhere near providing any proof. Nor will they file charges in India. Most are past the statute of limitations anyway so they have an easy out as an excuse. But the only two accusers within the statute of limitations refuse to file criminal charges. This would also be because they do not have ONE credible corroborative witness and their accusations and actions after alleged crime are riddled with contradictions which do not make sense and they know it.

Khorramshagol even offered me $1000 to go to India and file charges for him! Apparently he did not care to consult with a lawyer long enough to find out his 1993 accusations were long past the statute of limitations. I guess he thought he had infinite time to file charges and could even send a surrogate to take his deposition! Khorramshahgol (who was 19 at the time he alleges the misconduct) like most alleged victims cared so little about their "trauma", they did not even bother to consult with a lawyer to find out what their rights and legal obligations were as a victim. I must point out here that Khorramshahgol states very clearly in his online statement that he did not realize until over six months after his interview with Sai Baba that he was sexually abused. In fact, he claims he only realized it after seeing a video of one of Sai Baba's materializations which allegedly showed Baba cheating that made him realize Baba's heavy breathing and supposed groping of his male parts were sexual in nature. Khorramshahgol is another one who cannot come up with ONE corroborative witness who can verify his claims. As a sexual abuse victim myself (at the age of 13), I find it extremely hard to believe that Khorramshahgol did not realze he was being sexually groped at the time of his interview as he alleges.

Suffice it to say, all of the claims I have examined are more than dubious and, in my opinion, point to either many accusers who think they were going to hit the jackpot similar to the Catholic cases, or there is an orchestrated campaign being funded by some as yet unknown group or groups who feel threatened by Sai Baba's enormous influence.

Hello Freestone, I agree with much of what you say. Just wanted to comment on the following points you made:

>> well, maybe it is time for me to take off a layer of "gloves" and write a bit about myself!

I essentually side with both sides of the baba controversy! I began this
forum mostly to feel out what people today think and feel about baba.

the "real" baba forums seem to be filled with young devotees that are as fervently pro-baba that they are as "fundamentalist" as any chrasmic christian at their worst! they do not wanna hear a bit about their god
might also have a bowel movement once a day or so!! kill ya for mentioning anything anti-baba. <<


You are right about this. It has also been my experience to receive the foulest of abuse simply for pointing out something "negative" about Sai Baba that is plain as day for all to see. For example, if I point out the fact that Sai Baba is starting to show symptoms of Parkinson's Disease - based on eyewitness reports by devotees as well as official ashram video evidence - I'll immediately get a long and abusive email about how I bring God down to my human level by pointing out material faults in him, and also the old and tired rebuttal about how God suffers human ills when he takes a human form.

As far as I have seen, those Sai devotees/admirers who take it upon themselves to defend Sai Baba do not appear to show even a pinch of the love and compassion that Sai devotees are supposedly well-known for. It would be something if I was a completely ordinary bystander or something, but the fact that I am an ex-devotee really seems to get their goat.


>> and the anti-baba people often are so full of anger, even if rightiously so.

me?
I would not go to India of my own free will, I cannot even go to church comfortably, here in America! I do not believe in Gurus or people who tell you how to live your life.

in fact, my own philosophy runs a bit like this: how in heaven or hell's name can you become saved unless there is a you there to become saved with?! how can you transcend your ego unless you first have an ego?! <<


This is actually a very good question, and it is something that I like to think about in terms of Sai Baba's philosophy/theology. Also, you might be interested to know that other spiritual teachers hold a very different view from Sai Baba. One of the things that makes us "us" is our ego, and to vanguish it as Sai Baba tells us to is tantamount to committing spiritual suicide.

Also, have you noticed how Sai Baba has double-talk: on one hand he exhorts his devotees to be as humble and "lowly" as possible, and the next minute he tells them that they are verily God on earth (except that they just don't know it yet, the twits!). What's a sadhaka to do? How is he supposed to practise humility while walking aorund thinking that he is really God?

This and many other cases of hilarity are just a few reasons why Sai Baba is not taken very seriously amongst the orthodoxy of India's spiritual leaders. I'd suggest that a large part of his appeal is based solely on his "2miracles" and the wide reports of them, most of which have been thoroughly debunked anyway.


>> One of my many hobbies is to try to figure out the motivations of people and to see how and why people follow masters and cults.

I am finding reality to be a strange and sticky thing, as i get ever the older. <<


Although I am relatively tender years I must admit that I am following along the same lines myself, especially about the reasons why people feel the need to join cults. It's one of the reasons why I went back to University to study a BSc. Psychology.


>> the oringinal sin.....as i see it...is that people pass their shit to thier kids and then they kids grow up and pass it on to theirs! <<

Richard Dawkins, who is a fervent atheist and a popular science writer, says the same thing and even postulates biological theoris for this concept.


>> i read that 80% of battered kids will grow up to batter their kids!!
[nievely i would have thought the opposite!!]
probably many of the baba devoteess and the anti-devotees have had terrible childhoods! <<


I can't say that I've had a terrible childhood, but I will say that I came to Sai Baba at a time in my life when I was in great spiritual "need". He seemed to fill in all the gaps at that time so...


>> so i am not a devotee of baba. i just started this forum, as i say above, to get a "core sample" of the present day feelings pro and con about baba.

I once, at a university town, went to a baba group meeting only to incur the authoitativeness of the leader, a apparently typical Indian man who was
very powerful and overbearing, not to my taste at all. end of that.

thus i like individualism. <<

I quite agree. I read your earlier messages and I'm glad to see that you've "officially" taken a neutral position. It seems to me that truth can be best gleaned from an impartial standpoint. That's one of the reason why, despite the fact that I am a practitioner of Gaudiya Vaishnavism in my private spirituality, I try not to let it colour my views on Sai Baba and I comment on Sai Baba's philosophy through an "impartial" philosophical standpoint using mutually-acceptable sources. I sometimes make reference to GV on occsion when the need arises, but not often.

Edited by author 04-30-2006 11:01 PM
Well well, looks like Pinky and Perky are back on their campaign of defamation and slander, which I shall prove when the time comes. In the meantime, it's funny to see them skulking around the Net as a hilarious double act. I already said that I'm not interested in discussing points of their that are largely irrelevant to the Sai Baba controversy, but sometimes their lies just need to be exposed.

Regarding Moreno, his spurious claims that I do not provide examples of his slander and defamation campaign against me is because they are irrelevant to the topic of this board. the topic of this board is "Sathya Sai Baba - who is he?", and consequently his vitriol is by definition irrelevant here. Clearly, as I have already noted, he has nothing to contribute to the larger topic of Sai Baba.

As for his other spurious claim about my deleting his comments from my blog, he never posted a comment. At least, nothing substantial except to post a link back to his own website. At the time I clearly said thatI would not allow just plain link advertising and that substantial comments should be made. Moreno is completely free to comment on any of my blog postings just as long as he has something substantial to say instead of just posting a link back to his site. I already know that he and his two companions have posted anonymous comments at my blog.

Christian Fundamentalism - It looks like Moreno has shot himself in the foot here. According to his own screencaptures, it appears that Exbaba temporarily posted a link/banner for the purposes of offering recovery counselling to anybody (especially ex-devotees) who might want to make use of it. There is nothing surprising about this, recovery and counselling options have been listed several times in ExBaba's history, and many anti-Sai/ex-devotees are registered therapists and counsellors who are willing to offer their services to people who feel disillusioned by Sai Baba's fraudulence.
So what if the organisation in question has a Christian outlook? The way Moreno makes it sound is as if there is a wholesale campaign to convert people to Christianity or something. This is just one more example of how he overinflates minor things to suit his own duplicituous agenda. It's kind of like the way he tries to say that a Muslim (like Afshin Khorramshahgol, who was molested by Sai Baba) is a Fundamentalist Christian because he was educated at a "Christian" school!

He then complaisn that neither myself nor Conny Larsson provide links to his site on our sites. I cannot speak for Larsson but I can say that I don't link to him for the very same reason he doesn't link to my site. :-) The main difference is that I am open and honest about it, instead of constructing a lie (since December 8th, 2004) about being blocked from linking. :-) I also quote to Exbaba/Saiguru articles because they have something I need to reference. I'm afraid that Moreno's articles do not have quite the same reliability.

Enough now, lest we descend into total irrelevance. :-) He finishes off with the typical baseless slander that he is well known for, and which has been refuted already countless times. As I've already noted, there is nothing we can expect from this fellow in terms of a constructive and meaningful discussion. For one thing, he is not a devotee or an ex-devotee of Sai Baba, and he has also received an oiling from Sai Baba, which happens to be a common feature of Sai Baba's molestations.

--

As for Lisa De Witt, she seems to be cutting and pasting and posting and reposting the same thing wherever she goes. Despite her words, she has not investigated the allegations personally. She is on record demanding the personal contact details of Hans De Kraker and, even when all of the details were handed to her on a plate, she never contacted him. Ditto for other molestees, especially Afshin Khorramshahgol. The record also shows that she spent quite a bit of time abusing Afshin, but failed to discuss any of the "important contradictions" that she claims to have found.

After spending nearly six years acquainted with the Sai Baba controversy on both sides of the debate, I can testify that the pro-Sai side are by far the most delinquent. The shallowness of their arguments say it all: high on ad-hominem attacks, extremely low on factual defence of Sathya Sai Baba. That is why I have decided not to spend any needless time directly engaging with these people except to refute the hilarious and comedic arguments they put across. They're not so squeaky-clean either. Since they love to point out (imagined) faults in other people, I can just as easily do the same with their own documented perversions. There is no need to do so because that is not the purpose of this board, so they would do well to stay relevant or else stop participating here. Their recent double-act of posting here adds more fuel to the record of their long history of infecting wherever they go with their poisonous virus of slander and oft-refuted lies.

I see Dadlaniexposed is still trying to distract from the issues. When I first started researching Dadlani et al's claims, I was led to believe by Dadlani, van der Sandt, Hanisch and others that there were all these little boys who had been molested by Sai Baba but that the Indian government would do nothing about it.
I told them that I refused to traumatise children further by interrogating them and that a professional should be interviewing the children if this were in fact true.

Upon closer examination of their claims I realized almost ALL of the accusers were ADULTS over 18 years of age at the time they claim they were abused, including Hans de Kraker, who was in his twenties when he claims Sai Baba abused him. At that point I saw that I was dealing with people who were not being very truthful and none of their stories were adding up. I also felt I was dealing with a possible criminal operation after experiencing their continual harassment and then finding Dadlani on a Disney porn site, two Jesus porn sites and having been informed by a friend who used to be a NSA employee that they usually pass child porn on those porn sites that are called "biblical" sites. Dadlani is being very disingenous as I asked the anti-Sais several times to give me information about de Kraker and others, including any corroborative witnesses who could verify their claims. Whenever the anti-Sais cannot come up with the answers or proof they are asked for, they consistently attack the person asking for proof. As you can see, this is their primary tactic. Here it is, almost four years later and still they cannot come up with the name of the group leader that de Kraker claims he told his story to. I was informed by another source that de Kraker was booted out of the ashram after being part of a group who started spreading stories about Sai Baba, yet de Kraker failed to mention this very important detail in his online statement.

The accusers do not want to answer questions which are inconvenient. They only want to recruit those into their group who will go along with their smear campaign. Dadlani is not interested in the "truth". He, like almost all the anti-Sais, is only interested in being right, regardless of what the truth is.

Sai Baba has an exemplary record as a spiritual leader. He is monitored day in and day out and there are people around him twenty four hours a day. His miracles have been documented by more reputable sources, including the Indian government, than any other figure in history. Since the campaign against Sai Baba has now expanded to include his devotees as well as the Indian government, one can only ask why the accusers just can't seem to come up with the proof that they need.
Not ONE corroborative witness has stood by any of the accusers. The probablility of this occurrence in the case of a REAL sexual assault is very slim, especally considering how thin the curtain is between the interview rooms. Sexual crimes are so vile and humiliating, it is hard to believe that the accusers waited so many years to decide to complain and that no one on the other side of the curtain heard anything.

The burden of proof is on the accusers who are making themselves look more and more suspicious by not filing charges while they enable those like Dadlani to continue to harass and berate those who are seeking to protect the rights of the accuser as well as the accused.

>>I see Dadlaniexposed is still trying to distract from the issues. <<

The issue here is "Sathya Sai Baba - Who is he?" Therefore this site is not about Dadlaniexposed, DeWittexposed, Morenoexposed or anyone else, although there is plenty to expose about the skullduggery of the pro-Sais.

As I noted earlier, pro-Sais seem to have a very troublesome habit of infesting every discussion board that mentions the name of the darkened guru and post irrelevant garbage that means nothing. This is why the other two Quicktopic boards were shut down, because they were spammed relentlessly to death. If this goes on any longer, then it looks like this might be the third Quicktopic board to die at the hands od devious Sai devotees. I hope that will not be the case.

>>When I first started researching Dadlani et al's claims, I was led to believe by Dadlani, van der Sandt, Hanisch and others that there were all these little boys who had been molested by Sai Baba but that the Indian government would do nothing about it. I told them that I refused to traumatise children further by interrogating them and that a professional should be interviewing the children if this were in fact true. <<

There's no record of such wild claims. The record actually shows Lisa De Witt abusing Dadlani et al in vile terms and slanderous ripostes.


>> Upon closer examination of their claims I realized almost ALL of the accusers were ADULTS over 18 years of age at the time they claim they were abused, including Hans de Kraker, who was in his twenties when he claims Sai Baba abused him. At that point I saw that I was dealing with people who were not being very truthful and none of their stories were adding up. I also felt I was dealing with a possible criminal operation after experiencing their continual harassment and then finding Dadlani on a Disney porn site, two Jesus porn sites and having been informed by a friend who used to be a NSA employee that they usually pass child porn on those porn sites that are called "biblical" sites. <<


Witness Lisa De Witt's slander in action! It is beyond me to note the amazing number of times that this incredibly ridiculous story has been refuted, yet Lisa De Witt still shamelessly repeats it as if it were actual fact, what to speak of actually proving any of these child-porn claims! Despite what her "NSA friend" (yeah right) told her, Lisa De Witt is on record as stating that she could find no such material in said groups, yet this doesn't stop her from repeating her scandalous lies time and time again. By way of contrast, Lisa De Witt was reportedly found on an alt.sex.support.boy-lovers site, but you don't find anyone bringing this up repeatedly when our presence here requires critically analysing Sai Baba.


>> Dadlani is being very disingenous as I asked the anti-Sais several times to give me information about de Kraker and others, including any corroborative witnesses who could verify their claims. Whenever the anti-Sais cannot come up with the answers or proof they are asked for, they consistently attack the person asking for proof. <<

The records show that it is Lisa De Witt who is being disingenuous, not I. The record is there, for all the public to see. Whatever I have said in my previous posts is proved by the record, and nothing can deny that fact. Sorry. :-)


>> As you can see, this is their primary tactic. Here it is, almost four years later and still they cannot come up with the name of the group leader that de Kraker claims he told his story to. I was informed by another source that de Kraker was booted out of the ashram after being part of a group who started spreading stories about Sai Baba, yet de Kraker failed to mention this very important detail in his online statement. <<

And four years ago, Lisa was given De Kraker's personal email address (several times actually) so that she could contact him to clarify her confusion. She never did so. Three guesses why.

When they come out with such fanciful theories about Christian Fundamentalism as the heart of the Anti-Sai Agenda, it's no wonder that they don't care much for truth and clarification! :-)


>> The accusers do not want to answer questions which are inconvenient. They only want to recruit those into their group who will go along with their smear campaign. <<

Yet again, the record has shown that anti-Sais have answered all questions that are able to be answered. The same does not hold true for pro-Sais, whose record shows a shocking disparity whenever they are questioned about Sai Baba and his antics.

I wonder where Lisa De Witt is coming out with all this wrong information when the public record clearly contradicts her words.


>> Dadlani is not interested in the "truth". He, like almost all the anti-Sais, is only interested in being right, regardless of what the truth is. <<


The truth, at the end of the day, is that Sai Baba is not God when he claims to be such. At the end of the day, this is the conclusion that we all arrive at. When you accept that Sai Baba is not God, you will then be forced to de facto admit that he is a fraud for stating such for so many years with absolute impunity.


>> Sai Baba has an exemplary record as a spiritual leader. <<


Not really. He has been criticised by his own villagers since the 1940s onwards.


>> He is monitored day in and day out and there are people around him twenty four hours a day. His miracles have been documented by more reputable sources, including the Indian government, than any other figure in history. <<


More repetitive and oft-refuted propaganda. Fo the record, Jesus Christ is much more famous than Sai Baba and thus defeats him in a casual historical analysis.


>> Since the campaign against Sai Baba has now expanded to include his devotees as well as the Indian government, one can only ask why the accusers just can't seem to come up with the proof that they need.
Not ONE corroborative witness has stood by any of the accusers. The probablility of this occurrence in the case of a REAL sexual assault is very slim, especally considering how thin the curtain is between the interview rooms. Sexual crimes are so vile and humiliating, it is hard to believe that the accusers waited so many years to decide to complain and that no one on the other side of the curtain heard anything.

The burden of proof is on the accusers who are making themselves look more and more suspicious by not filing charges while they enable those like Dadlani to continue to harass and berate those who are seeking to protect the rights of the accuser as well as the accused. <<

This is just oft-repeated and oft-refuted stuff that has been answered countless times before with no response by pro-Sais, therefore I'm not going to spend any further time flogging dead horses when there is much more new ground to cover.

Freestone, I'd appreciate it very much if you could step in here with a message for the pro-Sais to pipe down with their propaganda and ad-hominem tactics of argument. I don't believe that any mature and fruitful discussion can take place when the same old tired stuff is repeated againd and again with no respite. This is one of the problems that caused the other two Quicktopic boards to die, because of the misbehaviour of pro-Sai devotees and admirers. I'd also appreciate it if discussions were limited to on-topic subjects rather than wild character assassination that has nothing to do with the topic of this board. Thank you.

Hey Sanjay, YOU are the one who keeps trying to change the subject with your abusive ad hominem attacks and lies.

The ONLY thing the record shows is that Sanjay Dadlani aka Sai Baba Exposed aka saiexposed420 is a pathological liar who admitted to downloading child porn while falsely claiming he worked for the IWF. His lies are clearly documented on saisathyasai.com yet the mental case continues to pretend he has not been exposed for the liar that he is. As you can see, Sanjay Dadlani has been abusing people in yahoogroups with his ultra foul mouth since he joined Khorramshahgol's yahoogroup in approx. 2000. Even the anti-Sais complained about his lies and abusive behavior. The misogynistic streetbitches blog (Remember, "They want it" Sanjay?) was his latest fiasco and one does have to wonder how long it will be before Sanjay is put in a jail cell for his harassing tactics which obviously are not confined to the internet.

Edited by author 05-01-2006 05:27 PM
>> Hey Sanjay, YOU are the one who keeps trying to change the subject with your abusive ad hominem attacks and lies. <<


*sigh*

I'm actually quite busy these days with some serious personal projects going on and yet again I have to tiredly point out that the subject of this board is "Sathya Sai Baba - who is he?" Just take a look at /m24 , it shows proof of how how Sai Baba's defenders perniciously stalk people all over the Net and infecting everyone with their oft-refuted propaganda. They always cast the first stone and then pretend to look innocent.

It looks like Pinky just couldn't help writing more irrelevant and unproven nonsense that is against the topic of this board. I'll expect Perky to come along in a matter of minutes.

If you two find yourselves pathologically unable to hold a conversation or a discussion - as your online record shows - please leave. Sai devotees/admirers have a long and sordid history of driving discussion forums off the rails and this is just the latest episode. If you cannot bring yourselves to discuss the reality of Sai Baba the fraud guru, go away and stop stalking me. Creeps.

hi all....

I was reminded today about meat eating and what baba says about it.

what i *wanted*, but could not find in Google was the baba quote that i read once.

"ANYONE WHO EATS MEAT IS NOT A DEVOTEE OF MINE"!!

I will have to ask someone else to look this up and to see if baba actually says this.

but look at what i did find!..........


[quote]
The said Sai Baba insists that all devotees (followers of Sai Baba) be vegetarian at least and vegan vegetarian at best. His claim is that one is purified by doing so, that meat is impure and corrupting.
[/quote]

from baba himslef
[quote]
Today as an offering to Swami, give up meat eating, consuming liquor and smoking. By renouncing these three, you will benefit yourselves as well as society and the nation. If you wish to carry out Swami's aim, renounce from this moment itself these three bad practices. Do not put it off to tomorrow. Take the resolve from this moment. Expecting that you will carry out Swami's wish and thereby promote the well being of your family and the nation, I bless all of you.

Divine Discourse: November 23, 1994
[/quote]

and....
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:5dsfZT...gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=22

[this is a long long one, folks, only 10% of the page is below, this is what baba thinks about food and health!


ooooh BOY!!
[quote]

  


Excessive and frequent consumption of milk and its products awakens and aggravates the rajasic and tamasic qualities in man. A diet extra rich in milk, curds and ghee cannot be called satwic because it awakens the passionate nature in man and also promotes heart and other diseases. We must not forget that we absorb an incorporeal type of food through the other sense organs as well.

“Foods which increase life, purity, strength, health, joy and cheerfulness, which is oleaginous and savoury, substantial and agreeable, are dear to the satwic people.” Gita chapter 17, verse 8


 
   
Tamasic Foods
All stale, tasteless, putrid foods, like pickles, cheese, all alcoholic beverages, sedative drugs, tobacco, dagga, cocaine, meat, fish, eggs and all foods that slow you down physically and mentally
 
 




Process of Cooking

The food should not be overheated, or over cooked, low temperature, slow cooking is safer and more nutritious, also at least 50% of the food should be raw, like salads, sprouts, fruit, nuts and certain raw vegetables. Stir fry is also better than fully cooked foods.

Ingredients

Excess of oil, butter, cream should be avoided, for a balanced diet. Care should be taken to consume only 1500 to 2000 calories per day, divided so that only 50 grams of protein are consumed (excess protein cannot be stored so it is passed out in the urine along with extra calcium resulting in osteoporosis – thinning of your bones) the remaining 1300 to 1800 calories should be mainly carbohydrate with a minimum of fat which should be derived from vegetables like olive oil, avacado, nuts, and seeds. Hydrogenated fats and oils are harmful.

.

Extracts from Gita Vahini, Chapter 26

“Krishna ! You said that the Daivic and Ausuric natures of man are the consequences of acts and feelings that had impact on the individual in previous births. Since it is impossible to escape from such impacts, what is the fate of those who are condemned to carry this burden with them? Or can their consequences be mitigated? If such exist, please tell me about them so that I could save myself thereby.” Arjuna asked thus in order to draw out from the Lord the remedy for all mankind.

Krishna gave an immediate answer. There are three types of Gunas, sathwic, rajasic and thamasic. They are based on the anthahkarana, the inner consciousness. That too is dependent on the intake of food. You are what you feed on, your activities shape your nature. So at least in this birth, by regulating food and activity (aahaara and vihara) man can overcome the Aasuric tendencies that tend to prevail upon him. He can promote sathwic tendencies through planned self-effort”. This advice was tendered lovingly by the Lord to the eager inquirer, Arjuna.

“Rajasic food is the opposite of the Sathwic. It is too salty, too sweet, too hot, too sour, and too odorous. Such food excites and intoxicates.

“

The cause of all conflicts in the world is the food one eats, some eat sathwic, others rajasic and tamasic foods, because they eat food in these 3 different denominations, they have 3 different types of behaviour. Because of what they finally become, difference of opinion and conflicts arise.

There can never be a bond of understanding between persons who eat satwic food and another who eats rajasic foods. Maybe for a short while they will be friends, but eventually they will drift apart. There can be a lasting friendship between 2 people who eat satwic food; likewise 2 people who eat rajasic foods can strike a bond of friendship, however eventually rajasic people will disagree. “if you want to strike a bond of friendship with God your thoughts must be such that it is completely divine. God is satwic in nature. If you wish to strike a bond of friendship with God, your behaviour must reflect only satwic qualities.”

“When we sit down to eat food, we feel light and energetic. When we complete our meal we must also feel light and energetic. So sathwic foods are all those foods which make us light, gives you sufficient energy and removes laziness. As far as possible we must cook food in oil, not in fat (cold pressed olive oil seems to be the best).

True sadhakas must eat only once a day. A person who eats twice a day is a bhogi or a man of pleasure and a person who eats 3 times a day is a rogi or a sick person.

“Meat develops the demonic quality in you and food which is excessively hot or even sour can be likened to meat and wine. Pickles are literally soaked in salt and an excess of salt is worse than wine.” The above foods promote the quality of jealousy in you and jealousy is the product of the 6 bad qualities present in everyone.

An excess in salt and meat gives you the quality of jealousy.

“The first step in the transformation of the mind is do not criticize or harm others. Criticizing others ia a sin of great magnitude. If you want to attain moksha you have to transform the mind and this can only take place when you partake of a satwic diet. Satwic diet purifies your thoughts and helps to focus your thinking. Smoking destroys the kundalini shakthi that you possess. Smoking also destroys the spiritual vibrations in your surroundings.

Extract from Sandeha Nivarini, page 43

“Try to prevent the 5 sins that the body commits; killing, adultery, theft, drinking intoxicants and eating of flesh. It is a great help for the highest life if these also are kept as far away as possible.”

In an interview with a strict vegetarian Swami told him that although he was a vegetarian he was not taking in satwic food at all. Swami told him not to have highly spiced pickles, garlic and onions.


Summer Course, 1979, page 91

“One who controls and regulates the actions of others is called YAMA. One who controls himself and regulates his own actions possesses the quality of SAMYAMA. There should be discipline and regulation in life in accordance with self-imposed constraints. These self-imposed constraints constitute the TAPAS of an individual. An unrestrained life is an immoral life. A spiritual aspirant need not live in monastic isolation. He should practice universal compassion, which is nothing but an intense desire for the welfare of the entire humanity. FOOD plays an important part in the cultivation of universal compassion. Satwic food enables a Sadhaka to apprehend the omnipresent reality of Divinity. Satwic food is conducive to the progressive attainment of the four states of spirituality, viz.

 

The solution:

“Uncooked food, nuts and fruit, germinating pulses are the best. Use these at least one meal, say, for the dinner at night, this will ensure long life.” SS Speaks Vol, 15, page 115


Back to Top



-------------------------------------------------------- -----------------------

Rajasic And Tamasic Foods - The Danger

Protein

The human body cannot store protein.

Average human of 70 kg weight only needs 50gm protein per day.

Animal protein is dangerous because some of its amino acids are aromatic (ring structures are in themselves carcinogenic) and these phenol or cresol rings have to be broken down into ammonia, urea and uric acid (ammonia is a potent promotor of cell proliferation and consequently cancer especially in the colon)

We only have a certain amount of enzymes and consequently a fair percentage of a high protein meal ends up in the colon, where it is digested by bacteria and the ammonia, urea, etc. promote cell growth, are toxic, causes DNA changes and eventually cancer.

Excess protein is digested and stored as glycogen in the liver or as fat droplets in fat cells, excess protein also inhibits calcium absorption.
Two times increase in protein intake causes 50% increase in calcium excretion.

If you eat 3 types of grain at different times of the day or a grain and a legume per meal, eg chick peas and rice, this is all the protein you need. The meal must be fully integrated. Fiber is both soluble and non-soluble. These help to prevent various colonic diseases. Whole grain is not as good as ground grain as it goes right through undigested, so it only plays a partial role in digestion. Integrated, by this I mean that all components of the ground grain must be added simultaneously in the preparation of the meal (eg. Stone ground flour). It is useless to add fiber later, etc. Please note that although plants do not produce cholesterol, the surface of all grain have cholesterol binding sites.
Back to Top





---------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------

Rajasic And Tamasic Foods - The Danger

Cancer

“The present fertilizers are full of defects. As a result you find an increase in the number of concern cases and heart complaints. To this day, there has been no doctor who has come up with a cure for cancer. What is the cause of cancer? Somebody might say eating betel leaf gives you cancer. A few others say cancer is the direct result of smoking beedies and cigarettes. And some might say that the air around you is polluted so you get cancer. All said and done, what you must understand is, to a limited extent, these factors might be contributing in a small way. But they are not the primary cause of cancer. The main cause of cancer is sugar. In order to produce commercial sugar, a lot of chemicals such as powered bone are used in the process. And this substance, as you ingest the sugar, might become lodged in any part of the body and create problems.” Know Thy Self, Sathya Sai Baba, 10 August 1993, Page 149



Anticancer promoters : Fiber, vitamin A, C, E (prevents oxidation of fat)
Cancer is on the increase in countries where there is high intake of animal fat like Netherlands, Denmark, UK, Canada, New Zealand, Switzerland, Ireland, US, Belgium, Australia. South Africa is also on the way up because of high fat intake. The problem with saturated fats is that it promotes ischeamic heart and cerebral disease. If you have high blood pressure you have 2.2. times higher risk of getting a heart attack. A smoker has 1.9 times higher risk of a heart attack. If you have high cholesterol there is 1.75 times higher risk of a heart attack. If you combine the above 3 factors operating simultaneously there is an 8.5 times higher risk of a heart attack. Males between 25-55 years have a 4 times higher risk than females. Vegetarians have a very low risk provided the rest of their life style like alcohol, smoking, and stress are absent or low. Vegans have the lowest incidence, provided other risk factors are absent.


Back to Top


---------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------

Rajasic And Tamasic Foods - The Danger

 

Hard cheese has already been fully digested by bacteria, it cannot be digested any further by the human enzyme system, so a golden rule should, if it cannot rot, it is not fit for human consumption.




---------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------

Rajasic And Tamasic Foods - The Danger

Meat

“It is significant that those who live on vegetarian food are less prone to diseases while meat eaters are subject to various diseases. Man should consume what is in accord with the needs of the human body. Doctors speak about proteins. Are there not proteins in vegetables, milk, and curds and pulses? Non-vegetarian food not only affects the body but also the mind. Food, Head, God, these three are inter-related. By consuming animal food, animal tendencies are aroused. As is your food, so are your thoughts.” SS Speaks, Vol 23, page 81
 [/quote]


I am reminded of a couple that I knew, in 1970s Rochester new york. the Zen center was active then, as well as a number of other eastern guru-driven groups.
One night as I visited their apartment, she gave to me an announcement that they were going to go to the evening, daily, 7 PM meditation service and she said that both of them were only going for the meditation and NOT for any of the belief systems or the "styles of behavior that the devotees did.

So for my year I came to see them about once a month, or so. I watched an, to me, an AMAZING thing! slowly, ever so slowly, both of them began to wear orange or saffron clothes! slowly, if i saw them eating a meal, there was brown rice in it.
by the end of that year they were 100% devotees, mind body and soul!

down the posts, a few posts back, "Exposed" and others, I siad that i was "neutral", offically.


hoooooooever!!

---somewhat more "off of the record" I would have to say that baba is a tea bag steeped in the hot water of the culture of india and 50% to 80% of what he says and belives in is Mother India Speaking!
Thus...yet another small topic...I have read of how he does, or used to, marry 5,000 couples in one ceremony and that he has said that the most important worldly act that one can ever ever do is to marry!

then he says that the internet is not worth anyone's time nor computers either!

just what *would* he think of single batchelor meat eating, computer game
[morrowind, neverwinter nights] me?!

my point?
--that baba is for India, not for me or maybe many in the West, thus i am "vaccinated" from being a dovotee even if i wanted to be!
I like my individualism, my western free will mind, thank you.

[freestone's baba-o-meter unoficially is registering to the left of the 50%
Reading, on the Dial, even if baba is OK and not the "pervert" that is inferred to him being!]
registers way lefward on the "anti" side, as even my lung damage, those 20 days in the hospital, in 1993, cannot take for even a few minutes, INCENSE in any form or amount!!
thus I am "anti" by default, even before I were to even to begin to investigate him.

but just because i cannot tolerate the hot hot mexican foods, i do not put down mexican foods for everyone!! just for me, at least, my OWN baba-meter
is on the negative side of the middle!

freestone

Edited by author 05-01-2006 06:51 PM
Hello Freestone,

>> I was reminded today about meat eating and what baba says about it. what i *wanted*, but could not find in Google was the baba quote that i read once.
"ANYONE WHO EATS MEAT IS NOT A DEVOTEE OF MINE"!! I will have to ask someone else to look this up and to see if baba actually says this. but look at what i did find!.......... <<

I think that this is a great posting full of some good material which wil l come in handy. By the way you might be interested to see what I've already written on this matter:

The Meat Problem for Sai Baba's devotees

Addendum to 'The Meat Problem'

It appears that this might be the quote that you're looking for? :

"Calling themselves Sai devotees or devotees of Raama and Krishna, they fatten on chicken. How can they be deemed Sai devotees? How can God accept such a person as a devotee? Therefore, whether they are devotees in India or outside, they should give up from this instant meat eating ... Therefore, those who aspire to become true devotees of God have to give up meat, liquor and smoking ... Today, as an offering to Svaami, give up meat eating, consuming liquor and smoking." - 69th Birthday Discourse, 23/11/1994.

I think I have also read a more direct quote ("Meat-eaters are NOT my devotees!") somewhere in the Sanathana Sarathis, but I'll have to find it when I get some time. But here's what he has to say about his own devotees:

"Almost 90 percent of the so-called devotees are, in fact, deceitful ... Even the stray dogs scrounging around for something to eat are better than such fake devotees!" - 22nd July, 2002.

That doesn't really sound like the all-loving and all-compasionate God which we believed Sai Baba was.


>> somewhat more "off of the record" I would have to say that baba is a tea bag steeped in the hot water of the culture of india and 50% to 80% of what he says and belives in is Mother India Speaking! ... then he says that the internet is not worth anyone's time nor computers either! just what *would* he think of single batchelor meat eating, computer game [morrowind, neverwinter nights] me?! my point? that baba is for India, not for me or maybe many in the West, thus i am "vaccinated" from being a dovotee even if i wanted to be! I like my individualism, my western free will mind, thank you. <<


I think this is great. I'll admit that I'm also interested in the possibility of the cross-cultural effect that is taking place within the Sai Organisation. I remember David Bailey writing something similar in his book and I'd like to analyse it more. One typical example of the cross-cultural disruption in the Sai Organisation is in regards to the 'arathi' ceremony. This ceremony (in Indian culture) is well known as taking place at the conclusion of any general type of religious rite, though not always. Even so, and supposedly on Sai Bba's approval, this rite does not have to be followed in the Western countries of the Sai Org. because it might offend Western sensibilities.

Fair enough, given that most Sai centres in the West are more likely to be comprised of Western devotees but the fact is that many centres do have Indian devotees whose own sensibilities may get offended. They may take offense that the "rule" of the arathi ceremony is not taking place and that this constitutes disrespect and disobedience of Sai Baba. This could end up in all-Indian centres and all-Western, all-Italian, all-Spanish centres, the type of division that is happening even now. This is such a huge topic, I could talk for hours about this, ha ha!

And then as if that wasn't enough, allowing the foregoing of arathi ceremonies in the West stands at odds with Sai Baba's own self-appointed mission to revive Vedic culture and the re-establishment of (Sanathana) Dharma a.k.a. Hinduism! Now how can it be possible to revive a Vedic culture (that includes those "quaint" arathi rituals) while being careful not to offend/turn off Western sensibilities?

It just won't work. Sai Baba's mission will be a failure.

>> freestone's baba-o-meter unoficially is registering to the left of the 50% Reading, on the Dial, even if baba is OK and not the "pervert" that is inferred to him being!] registers way lefward on the "anti" side, as even my lung damage, those 20 days in the hospital, in 1993, cannot take for even a few minutes, INCENSE in any form or amount!! thus I am "anti" by default, even before I were to even to begin to investigate him. but just because i cannot tolerate the hot hot mexican foods, i do not put down mexican foods for everyone!! just for me, at least, my OWN baba-meter
is on the negative side of the middle! <<

That's good to hear. :-)

I quite admire that actually, not following Sai Baba for one's own personal reasons instead of this or that. That's exactly why I am an ex-devotee, because I discovered for myself why it would not be possible to continue believing in something which I consider to be a farce and a charade. It's ironic that Sai Baba often advises people to indulge in discrimination and critical thinking; doing just this helped me to realise that Sai Baba is not who he says he is. But anyway, I liked reading your reasons. :-)

Just to refresh everyone about Sanjay Dadlani's (aka "Sai Baba Exposed") perversity, pathological lies and self-professed drunkeness, racism and hatred for women:

Sanjay Dadlani Exposed

It is important to note that you do not have to be a "perfect person" in order to be guided and loved unconditionally by Sai Baba. Hislop was a meat eater and Tigrett, who does not consider himself a devotee, was a partier who almost died twice as a result of living the fast life. Yet Sai Baba saved him both times. The anti-Sais like to make a big deal out of Baba's comments about meaters eating, etc., but this is due to their own guilt about not being able to follow Sai Baba's teachings, otherwise they would not be trying to guilt-trip everyone else over their own inherent faults (and would learn to mind their own business, which they seem to have great difficulty doing).

Bad habits, like alcoholism, excessive sugar consumption, meating, etc. lead to their own karmic repercussions and anyone who truly understands the spiritual path understands this.

hi all

I liked what you said, Sai Exposed, about the devotees are often so upset if one infers that baba is of flesh and blood, and oh heavens, he is old and has twiching hands!

I saw a phot, recently, of baba in a wheelchair! the article under the photo is telling how he mostly uses this chair to get out to the podium.

baba is???? be 80 years old, by western counts, on his 2006 birthday!

I live, myself, in a senior center Home, at 65 years old and there are many many men there who use walkers at 70 years old!

ya have to go back to the "owners manual", i guess, where Jesus either tells, or is written about, that he is "off flesh and blood", and that he suffers the "thorns of the flesh" just like any man does.

maha baba was supposed to have at least one or two bad car accidents!

Problem is, that the soul of Jesus would be the Christ, and we each see only a man! thus even if baba is an incarnation of an old old soul, the devotees only see that man standing there. they think literally, they being young souls.



yes that meat article that i found amazed me, i only pasted about 10% of it, if i cut and pasted the whole thing, it would have taken seval quick-topic pages just for it!


just LOOK at the interest in macrobiotic diets! many many people worship this diet *AS* a religion! but i liked what that critic says about this diet ! he says that this diet was the daily diet of any japanese peasent in the 1700s, or so, when the zen temples got organized, thus the daily diet of the monks.
thus if these temples were to have been established in the american 1900
south, then the devotees all over the world, today, woul IDOLIZE grits, cornbread, biscuits, greens and fried chicken!!

freestone

>> It is important to note that you do not have to be a "perfect person" in order to be guided and loved unconditionally by Sai Baba. Hislop was a meat eater <<

It is good that Sai devotees are now publicly acknowledging the fact that John S. Hislop, referred to by Sai Baba as his "greatest Western disciple" and publicly acknowleged in Sai literature as a "perfect disciple", ate meat until his dying day in full violation of Sai Baba's teachings.

Apart from the fact that they seem to acknowledge this only after I pointed it out, let's note that Hislop was in the #1 position of the Sai Organisation. One owuld expect him to be a perfect representative of Sai Baba's teachings, but obviously not. Apparently his last meal was a steak.


>> and Tigrett, who does not consider himself a devotee, was a partier who almost died twice as a result of living the fast life. Yet Sai Baba saved him both times. <<

And even despite that, Isaac Tigrett agrees that it is entirely possible that Sai Baba is a child sex abuser. Even worse, he doesn't seem to care about it much as it has nothing to do with his own (selfish) "spiritual" evolution.


>> The anti-Sais like to make a big deal out of Baba's comments about meaters eating, etc., but this is due to their own guilt about not being able to follow Sai Baba's teachings, otherwise they would not be trying to guilt-trip everyone else over their own inherent faults (and would learn to mind their own business, which they seem to have great difficulty doing). <<


I cannot speak for anyone else but I have nothing at all to feel guilty about. I have been a vegetarian for almost thirteen years (since 1993) and, funnily enough, it was spending 3 months at Sai Baba's ashram that influenced me to give up eating meat.

Guilt? It no longer matters if ex-devotees eat meat or not because they are not under Sai Baba's jurisdiction any longer. In contrast, Sai devotees are under said jurisdiction and are thus expected to follow all of Sai Baba's teachings in toto. What a surprise that they don't. And what a surprise that Sai Baba himself says that 90% of his devotees are deceitful and worse that stray dogs.


>> Bad habits, like alcoholism, excessive sugar consumption, meating, etc. lead to their own karmic repercussions and anyone who truly understands the spiritual path understands this. <<

If Sai devotees think that they understand the spiritual path and should do thing to avoid incurring negative karma, then why do they continue to eat meat, drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes?

Edited by author 05-02-2006 01:35 PM
Hi Freestone,

>> maha baba was supposed to have at least one or two bad car accidents! <<

Let's not forget about the rotten teeth from years of cancerous betel chewing, two hip operations, eye operations, leg/feet injuries due to careless chariot driving, and the fact that he was blind in one eye for a couple of decades or so due to an accident with a blow-dryer.

Oh yes, the two hip operations were because he slipped on the soap in his bathroom. How careless. This is GOD! :-)

I find it VERY hypocritical of Sanjay Dadlani to whine about Baba's teachings as if they are code a one must follow like a cult or one can not be "a devotee," Then turn around and call it a cult! Make up your mind you confused bozo, which is it? The facts of how Baba treats people do NOT match your constant childish whining and babbling rhetoric. This shows that Dadlani, who claims to be such an expert on Sai Baba issues, doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. In Dadlani's cult-like mind the world is black and white and he spends time guilt-tripping and minding everyone else's business while the rot (sexual perversions and misogynistic tendencies) in his own back yard is stinking up the neighborhood.

As Dadlani's hate-on continues and the anti-Sai campaign falls apart while he tries with his drama queen whining to distract from the real issues, just know that the reckoning has begun.

Get some counseling bozo and learn to deal with your own pain so you can grow up and stop using your attention-seeking manipulations trying to inflict it upon others before you end up in jail.

Edited by author 05-03-2006 08:53 AM
>> I find it VERY hypocritical of Sanjay Dadlani to whine about Baba's teachings as if they are code a one must follow like a cult or one can not be "a devotee," <<


What a ridiculous and comical proposal. Is Lisa De Witt seriously suggesting that it is possible to be a "part" of a religious organisation and not follow their teachings? :-)

Well yes, many people try to cop out of their guilt just to make themselves feel better. We often hear people declaring themselves as non-practising Jews, non-practising Muslims, non-practising Buddhists and so forth. How hilarious! We have now come across the first non-practising Sai devotee! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Leave aside the fact that Sai Baba himself regularly complains of his devotees not following his teachings, even going so far as to say that those who don't follow his teachings are not his devotees. No wonder he says that 90% of his devotees are deceitful and worse than stray dogs, ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!


>> Then turn around and call it a cult! Make up your mind you confused bozo, which is it? <<

Show me where I said that the Sai Org. was a cult. I never said any such thing in my recent posts.


>> The facts of how Baba treats people do NOT match your constant childish whining and babbling rhetoric. <<


Well, in the case of meat-eating Hislop, Sai Baba clearly turned a blind eye to the disobedient behaviour of his "perfect disciple". That makes Sai Baba a double-hypocrite with double-standards; why insist that all of his devotees should give up eating meat while allowing people like Hislop and Phyliss Krystal to continue eating it?

As for my "childish rhetoric", I am only guilty of quoting Sai Baba himself, as well as official Sai literature. Perhaps they are the ones who are guilty of childish rhetoric. :-)


>> This shows that Dadlani, who claims to be such an expert on Sai Baba issues, doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. In Dadlani's cult-like mind the world is black and white and he spends time guilt-tripping and minding everyone else's business while the rot (sexual perversions and misogynistic tendencies) in his own back yard is stinking up the neighborhood.

As Dadlani's hate-on continues and the anti-Sai campaign falls apart while he tries with his drama queen whining to distract from the real issues, just know that the reckoning has begun.

Get some counseling bozo and learn to deal with your own pain so you can grow up and stop using your attention-seeking manipulations trying to inflict it upon others before you end up in jail. <<


Blah blah blah. Impotent threats from impotent people.

I just hope that everyone can see how Sai Baba's devotees continually fail to defend the hypocritical behaviour of their fraudulent and pervert master. They never fail to make an exhibition of themselves which is why they always end up with egg on their faces. :-)

Edited by author 05-03-2006 10:59 AM
Look what I just found:

"Sathya Sai Baba has said 'I do not ask you to follow me, I ask you to follow what I say'."

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, more comedy from the man himself!

This smashes Lisa De Witt's erroneous conceptions. Now, according to Sai Baba himself, it is not necessary to be his devotee but it is necessary to follow his teachings. LOL!

Poor Lisa, now she will be forced to give up her cigarettes, alcohol and meat. She will also be required to speak sweetly and lovingly, and banish herself from the Internet (according to Sai Baba's desire).

If Sai Baba says he is the God of Moses, then he is the Devil incarnate:

This book, available free in electronic PDF format, exposes the deception of the Devil who exalts himself above all as God in the Old Testament:

http://home.comcast.net/~sonofman1/TheOldSerpentChained.pdf

Since Sai Baba loves to claim he is the God of Moses and the Jews, Jesus proves him a liar and a fraud. Have a look at the free eBook.

I think Sai Baba is a great man of peace. But no-one would come to learn from him if he just taught that with his words and by his example. So he uses trickery and deception to suck in the crowds, and their willingness to believe makes them distort what he does into "miracles" and over-exaggerate the feats, especially as they pass from person to person. But he's not a bad man, and deserves to be listened to and learned from, when he talks about peace, and when he radiates his peace and love to all. He is a strong influence for good in the world.

Why didn't Sai Baba, if he is God, warn the airport officals of 911?

He is full of shit. He ain't no God, he's a liar.

hi all, as I have done a bit of "promotion" to get more blood, more new people to come here.
   what i am looking for is things about baba, pro and con. my own stance is that I, as a westerner, should stay far far away, but for an Indian??
--ify. my baba-o-meter has a reading of left of center, on the "negative" side.

please post more than one line rants about that you like or dislike baba!
As they say in college: "give examples"....ie, the meat eating post, futher down the list.

so i welcome any newcomers here......

freestone, the "list owner"!

Son of Man: "Why didn't Sai Baba, if he is God, warn the airport officals of 911?"

It is interesting to note that shortly after 9/11, Goldstein (the top man in the Western Sai Org.) gave a long lecture about how Sai Baba should be thanked for his love, compassion and mercy heaped upon his devotees, for none of his devotees had died in the 9/11 tragedy. Not only is this incredibly shocking and heartless but a tragedy in itself. These people only care about their own backs.

There's no proof at all that Sai Baba had anything to do with 9/11, but of course a number of "miracle" stories came out soon afterwards about Sai devotees had made "miraculous escapes" due to Sai Baba's loving grace. No real miracles obviously, just 'heartwarming stories'.

Regarding warning about 9/11 itself, you'd think that Sai Baba could have prevented it (if he was God) and softened bin Laden's heart, considering that 9/11 is a thorn in Sai Baba's side. Why? Because Sai Baba had predicted that the Golden Age (which he was born to bring about) would start in November 2000. Clearly this 9/11 tragedy about 10 months later seriously screwed up his plans for world domination. He certainly didn't see that coming! The Golden Age has been put on hold until 2007 according to Sai Baba's latest predictions. That is, if he can manage to get up from his luxury wheelchair.

Why doesn't Dadlani ever shut his mouth since we KNOW he can? And why didn't God on high come down and tell the whole world about the terroist attacks idiot? God you ask such infantile questions.

The operative phrase in Sai Baba's quote is, "I ASK you..." He doesn't demand you follow his dictates like a cult leader. He ASKS you to follow his teachings because they are good for your health and spiritual growth. He nurtures you on the path to being a better person. He let's all kinds of people (yes, even backstabbing pathological liars like you, O'Clery, Larsson and Bailey) from all walks of life A CHANCE to change.

Yes, we can see how you continuously MANGLE peoples words Dadlani. The point is, Dadlani STILL does not understand this (aspect of unconditional love) after all these years yet tries to act like he is some expert. He, like most anti-Sais, spend hundereds of hours day in and day out speculating like the drama queens that they are, why Sai Baba does this or does that. What a total waste of time which just proves they do not have any experience with Sai Baba to speak of.

Dadlani spends his time on these boards sucking every second of attention (rehashing the same garbage OVER and OVER again like he has alzheimer's disease) he can get from anyone he can get it from because he is an attention-starved little boy. Maybe we can find Dadlani a babysitter. He is BORING.

Edited by author 05-04-2006 08:10 AM
Re /m55: >> Why doesn't Dadlani ever shut his mouth since we KNOW he can? And why didn't God on high come down and tell the whole world about the terroist attacks idiot? God you ask such infantile questions. <<


Considering that I wasn't the one who asked the question in the first place, but was merely replying to it, I shall take the high ground and ignore the hostile ad-hominem attack. We are not talking about God's intervention, because we are operating on Sai Baba's OWN words regarding his divinity. God does not need to come down from on high when he is apparently walking the earth.

Secondly, we can notice how Lisa De Witt has nothing to say about the pro-Sai propaganda effected by the topmost official in the Sai Org (Dr. Michael Goldstein) regarding his joyous celebrations that no Sai devotee died in the 9/11 tragedy. This is an incredibly biased and selective application of grief in arguably the most tragic terrorist incident in history. Neither she have anything to say in reply to my points about Sai Baba's own millenial plans got screwed up by this tragedy. It's funny to watch Sai Baba postpone his own self-appointed mission to save souls whenever it takes his fancy or when circumstances dictate otherwise.

>> The operative phrase in Sai Baba's quote is, "I ASK you..." He doesn't demand you follow his dictates like a cult leader. He ASKS you to follow his teachings because they are good for your health and spiritual growth. He nurtures you on the path to being a better person. <<

In this quote, perhaps he does. In other places he's pretty specific about his thoughts, explicitly stating that those who do not follow his teachings are not to be considered his devotees. Why else does he regularly complain that devotees do not follow his teachings even after so many years? Why else does he employ the well-known tactic of ignoring people until they carry out his orders, which stands as a de facto demand?

Just watch Lisa De Witt - the world's first non-practising devotee in action; She takes issue with my words on the plea of grammar. As if Sai Baba's simple message is not enough to be understood by even a 5-year-old, she wants to deconstruct the language and grammar in order to differentiate between a demand and a request. Fine, if it comes to this pathetic situation of grammatical emphasis, READ the following quote:

"Calling themselves Sai devotees or devotees of Raama and Krishna, they fatten on chicken. How can they be deemed Sai devotees? How can God accept such a person as a devotee? Therefore, whether they are devotees in India or outside, they should give up from this instant meat eating ... Therefore, those who aspire to become true devotees of God have to give up meat, liquor and smoking ... Today, as an offering to Svaami, give up meat eating, consuming liquor and smoking." - 69th Birthday Discourse, 23/11/1994.

Whoa, sounds like three demands to me! Looks like hypocritical devotees like Lisa De Witt will do and say anything to twist the words of their fraudulent master so that they can justify and carry on with their smoking, drinking and meat-eating (in violation of his orders).


>> The point is, Dadlani STILL does not understand this (aspect of unconditional love) after all these years yet tries to act like he is some expert. He, like most anti-Sais, spend hundereds of hours day in and day out speculating like the drama queens that they are, why Sai Baba does this or does that. What a total waste of time which just proves they do not have any experience with Sai Baba to speak of. <<

I have over a decade of experience as Sai Baba's devotee, and have made several trips (each one lasting a minimum of a month) to see him in India. I was also a member of the Bal Vikas (Sunday School) and the Youth Wing during my time as a Sai devotee. I have also met Sai Baba twice in group and personal interviews. What to speak of attending hundreds of darshans, sitting at plenty of his speeches, reading hundreds of his books, magazines, videos, etc.

If qualifications are needed for authoritativeness, I'd say that mine are ample enough.

>> Dadlani spends his time on these boards sucking every second of attention (rehashing the same garbage OVER and OVER again like he has alzheimer's disease) he can get from anyone he can get it from because he is an attention-starved little boy. Maybe we can find Dadlani a babysitter. He is BORING. <<

Another ad-hominem attack employed when the questions/points cannot be answered, what a surprise. If Lisa De Witt finds this discussion so boring then she is free to leave at any time. Goodness knows, nobody invited her here and her past conduct shows that she is here simply to stalk me. In which case, she secretly enjoys these discussions and is just making a show of abuse.

No wonder Sai Baba said that 90% of his devotees are deceitful and worse than stray dogs, we can see it right in front of us!

I should add that since Sai Baba gave the orders to quit smoking, drinking and meat-eating in November 1994, Lisa De Witt (and other devotees like her) have been continuously disobeying the orders of her guru for nearly twelve years.

Glad to see it all back up.

You'll have to forgive Sanjay Dadlani, aka Sai Baba Exposed, he continuously projects his own faults and shortcomings onto others and then lies about what others are doing in their personal lives. This is why Dadlani is known as a pathological liar. OTOH, Dadlani has admitted to downloading child porn, buying illegal drugs on the street, getting drunk in the computer room at Middlesex University, crying in his whiskey and other numerous confessions regarding his hatred of women on his Killuminati blog. He does however LOVE to drool over their boots as in boot fetish. This is all documented at saisathyasai.com.

You would think after more than four years of his constant driveling, Dadlani would learn to shut up but he never does. He is so starved for attention he will do ANYTHING to get it, even commit illegal acts and then confess them on the internet.

Pathetic innit?

Edited by author 05-04-2006 01:55 PM
Re /m60: "numerous confessions regarding his hatred of women."

Only yesterday, Lisa's pal Joe accused me of being a possible homosexual. Before that, he was practically claiming that I have sex with every woman who crosses my path. Even before that I supposedly hated women, and now I am a homosexual again?

Make up your minds, dweebs.

Have a look at a recent posting on my personal blog and see if that sounds like I hate women, ha ha ha ha ha ha! :-) Also, let's have a look at what Bhagavan Sri Bala Sai Baba has been up to lately. LOL!

As if my sexuality/alleged misogyny has anything to do with Sai Baba being a fraud anyway. We all know that he is a raging homosexual who offers Good Luck Chances (oral and anal sex) to "fortunate" devotees.

Edited by author 05-04-2006 01:57 PM
Lisa, please continue to disqualify yourself from this forum by continuously going off-topic. Also, thanks a lot for finally proving that you are completely unable to defend Sai Baba and his very human foibles and cack-handed affairs. Nobody seems to be even slightly interested in what you have to say, lol. Thank you.

Re /m31: Joe108 (Gerald 'Joe' Moreno) is a liar. He claims that I only promote anti-Sai links on my "Sai Baba EXPOSED!" blog. This is wholly untrue; I have reference pro-Sai sites all over my blog, especially the places where I quote Sai Baba directly by providing a link to original discourse files hosted on official Sai websites.

At least I go to some lengths to track down Sai Baba's words directly to the record, which is something that most devotees never do and are simply content with paraphrasing him, their worshippable Lord and master in /m48 for an example.

I have no reason to reply to any of your nonsense since most of it is misrepresentations of the truth and lies. Saisathyasai.com is the bastard child of Moreno's love affair with the Internet.

Then stop replying dumbo, it would be refreshing to not have to listen to your moronic drivel and continuous lies.

Lisa, nobody invited you here. You have come here simply for the purpose of stalking me. You have already proved that you have nothing to contribute to this discussion except to smear me, therefore your nonsense is unwanted here.

We all know what you are up to. You are famous for disrupting various Sai Baba discussion boards with your repetitive and unproven bollocks, and you are trying to replicate the same strategy here. You're fired.

Edited by author 05-04-2006 09:20 PM
Ugly Doug: I expect that all depends on whether what Peter says about Paul is true or not. :-)

Anyway, just to keep this on topic and not to get distracted by ill individuals because I completely agree that Sai Baba talks a lot of moronic drivel and continuous lies! :-) [I'm only quoting his words, ya know!]

I'd like to say that I received a very big parcel today, full of books and other Sai Baba resources. Some of these books are no longer available whereas others are a bit more rarer. I'm very excited about it because, at the very least, it looks like we may be able to present fresh material against Sai Baba and how/why he is such a fraud. :-)

For a start, there's a few photos of Krishna in one of the books. And by 'Krishna', I'm not referring to the Hindu God. ;-) Goodnight.

Now Sanjay the bully is exhibiting symptoms of extreme paranoia. Nobody came here to stalk you ya pervert. And nobody invited you here either idiot. You don't own this board. Funny that you always try to act like you have exclusive rights to every board about Sai Baba. You seem to forget that Freestone posted Joe's link to saisathyasai.com (on his blog and other places) LONG before you started trying to brag, like the immature wacko you are, about how much Freestone supposedly likes you better then Joe.

The only person here who has exhibited stalking behavior is YOU. Your digusting blog where you posted pics of women you followed around with disgusting comments about how "they want it" and other sexually perverted comments just shows how close you are to being a depraved psychopath who should be put in a jail cell.

Get a life dork.

Edited by author 05-05-2006 08:26 AM
Re: /m67 - I don't need to listen to Lisa De Witt's drivel, since the records of this board prove my words as correct.

For the benefit of readers, please see /m24 at this location to see an unprovoked attack against me for no reason at all. This was followed up by an immediate response from Lisa De Witt (/m25) although in fairness that wasn't against me. However, the both of them have been harassing me over everything I write.

As for my "invitation" here, see /m21 where a question was asked of me. I have a moral duty to reply. Since then I have been discussing Sai Baba, which is the purpose of this board. Nobody has a monopoly on any board, but the general principle of every board is to stay on-topic and discuss the subject. If people cannot discuss Sai Baba but can only abuse other posters, then they disqualify themselves and have no business here.

Extreme paranoia indeed. See the archives of this board (just a couple of pages back) and make up your own minds over who is here to discuss the issues about Sai Baba and who is here to disrupt the board. I think that the conclusion is clear.

Peace. Now no more distraction. We will discuss "Sathya Sai Baba - Who is he?" I'm looking forward to going through my large parcel of rare and unavailable pro-Sai books and videos in order to see how they compare and conflict with existing schemas within the Sai movement. I've already spotted a few anomalies through a random flicking of one book. It looks like Sai Baba is even more of a sexual deviant than we thought.

Edited by author 05-05-2006 10:21 AM
Since Sai Baba's devotees appear to be overly concerned with the status of their guru's genitals, perhaps we can discuss that.

In this regard, I penned a blog about this issue some time ago: Sathya Sai Baba: Morphing Genitals? Board members can have a look at that for some background reading.

Here's a snippet:

"According to some testimonies, Sai Baba once arranged it so that an Australian devotee could walk through the wall of his private interview room and miraculously appear outside his home in Australia to attend to his sick wife. Another story relates to the infamous murder shooting incident of June 1993; close devotees testified that the bullets shot against him miraculously changed into butterflies. Considering that devotees believe all of these cartoon stories, is it really so surprising that he might actually be able to morph his genitals into that of the opposite sex? Funnily enough, he claims to be a dual incarnation of Shiva and Shakti, so there is no ontological reason why he wouldn't be able to manipulate his gender at will.

"This reason may also account for his effeminate behaviour that occurs on occasion."

No need to listen to Sanjay Dadlani's drivel since his words on this and other boards prove me correct.

The truth is, it is Dadlani and his band of perverts that were constantly bring up the genital issue regarding Sai Baba. Tal Brooke was the first one to babble about this in his book so don't let Dadlani's deceptive tactics fool you. Now that we have pointed out the discrepancies in their stories claiming Sai Baba's genitalia supernaturally morphed from male to female (yet at the same time claiming he is a fraud), true to form, Dadlani the pathological liar is trying to twist the story.

Apparently, in addition to believing semen travels up the spine to the brain, Dadlani the pervert also believes in Sai Baba's morphing gentitals. I'd LOVE to see the dunderheads explain this in court.

It is not that actual semen reverses a flow to the brain but that the energy does.
With regard to sb's genitals, he has both operating male and female genitals as he is an hermaphrodite. This accounts for the reports, and the fact that trannies and others regard him as their personal avatar.
There is also a yogic function that can withdraw male genitals within the abdominal sac. This is much used by advance martial arts practitioners.

Oh God, Tony, quit lying and give us ALL a break. The accusers reported that Sai Baba's genitalia SUPERNATURALLY MORPHED from male to female. Stop trying to downgrade their obvious lies, or I will go and get their quotes so people can see, for the millionth time what a liar you are.

You'll have to forgive Tony, he also believes in Icke's reptilians and that the Bush's and the Royal Family are reptilians who have to drink peoples blood to live (roll eyes). Yet O'Clery has the audacity to claim others have "true believer" syndrome. Be sure to look at his page on Joe's site, saisathysai.com so you can see what a wacko he is.

Edited by author 05-06-2006 10:23 PM
Re: /m70: I've stated again and again that I do not believe that semen travels up to the brain via the spine. However, there is no denying the fact that it is a valid and well-known feature of Kundalini Yoga. Several books on Kundalini and Kundalini Yoga deal with this subject. I should know, I have read at least two of them.

In any case, abusing me doesn't solve any of the questions. The fact also remains that if Sai devotees can believe such crazy stories about Sai Baba, why can't they believe that he can manipulate his genitals at will?

Think about it, if Sai Baba devotees believe that Sai Baba can make men walk through walls (which supposedly sends them to Australia to boot!), as well as Sai Baba having the power to transform the bullets shot at him into butterflies, is switching your genitals from male to female and back really that much of a hard task?

Let's not forget that he himself claims to be a dual incarnation of Shiva and Shakti, the male and female forces of the universe (and Hindu gods).

These questions (and more) have never been answered by any Sai devotee. No surprise there.

What a liar. Your post with the direct quote is linked to on Joe's site (see page about Sanjay Dadlani on saisathyasai.com) and you argued it for the last year or more! I was the one you said it to Mr. Alzheimers. Are you finally changing your story because you realize how idiotic you are? Took long enough! Now if we can just get you to see what a pervert you are.

BTW, what was that you hypocritically blathered about cutting and pasting links and articles all over the internet? Wouldn't resemble you and Pittard's behavior would it? Why do dummies like you always play by double standards? Can't stand any competition you are so jealous, eh? Or are you just SO dumb you can't even see your own contradictions?

See "naughty jesus" lately bozo? Read your satanic bible lately bozo? I bet the psychiatrists are having a field day profiling you.

You abuse people (including Sai Baba) 24/7 and then whine when you get a taste of your own medicine, idiot. Wake up dumbo. In your deluded narcissistic little world you think you have an exclusive license to abuse people. Funny that you are so blind you can't see how abusive you are. As long as you talk nasty about others you are going to get it both barrels from me. Now quit whining ya wimp.

Quit trying to twist the story about the morphing genitals. The accusers are ALL trying to claim that Sai Baba is a fraud, but then they turn around and expect people to believe their stories about morphing genitalia. Tal Brooke even tried to claim Sai Baba's powers were because he is the anti-Christ. Now, twenty years later, Brooke has changed his story AGAIN (because he finally realized what a nutcase he sounded like) and just argues Baba is a fraud even though his books which are still in print go on and on about Sai Baba powers! And you dummies just can't FATHOM why sane peple can't POSSIBLY take you seriously when you bozos CONSTANTLY change your stories to suit your every whim.

Can your one brain cell understand this or do you need a map? When you couple this with all their other lies, it is not hard to deduct they are just liars (like you).
This is why they can't make it in a court room. Not hard to figure out if you actually had a brain.

Looks like Sai Baba's devotees continually prove that they are unable to take part in constructive discussions to get at the truth regarding Sai Baba, which is what this board is for. To disguise this humiliating inadequacy, they simply resort to criticising Sai Baba's attackers instead. Thus, this becomes their sole modus operandi: Sai Baba's Naughty Children.

Re: /m74: Lisa says that on Gerald Moreno's website my exact quote is there. Let's take a look at my post. It's a list of references gleaned from Internet search engines about "urdhvaretas", which is the Sanskrit term describing the process by which semen travels upwards into the brain via the practice of Kundalini Yoga.

Do I state anywhere that I believe this? Nope. Yet you see BOTH Lisa De Witt and Gerald 'Joe' Moreno shouting from the rooftops that I have "strange beliefs". A typical example of pro-Sai propaganda that is deceptive in nature and is resorted to when devotees cannot defend Sai Baba and his activities. :-)

Re: /m75: I hope people can see that pro-Sai devotees become enraged when they are unable to defend stories of Sai Baba's "wondrous miracles" in relation to his alleged superpowers. With reference to Sai Baba's alleged morphing genitals, they shout and scream about how this is a lie when they praise other "fantastic" stories about bullets changing into butterflies and sending devotees to Australia through his walls. :-) If he can do that, then why can't he change his genitals? Why is this simple thing so hard to believe? :-)

By the way, what bullets? Weren't the murdered students in 1993 alleged to have knives rather than guns, when there is no evidence that they had anything? Considering that this bullet-butterfly story originated with Sai Baba, it looks like even he is guilty of creating the propaganda that his devotees believe in. How'd ya like them apples? :-)

Freestone, I appreciate your position as a neutral moderator, but surely you can see how the behaviour of Sai Baba's devotees are hijacking this board with their derisory and abusive insulting behaviour.

As you know about the existence of the previous two QT boards to discuss Sai Baba, you will also remember how they were both spammed to death with insulting and abusive messages from Sai devotees. The two individuals in question regularly spoil the discussions in other discussion boards too, and are simply replicating their strategy here. I hope that this board does not go the same way as the other two, because I would like to see a wonderful forum full of people all excitedly discussing Sai Baba news just as used to happen in the early days of the Sai Baba Expose.

It appears that the discussion here is simply being hijacked by pro-Sai people who have continually proved that they cannot engage in a sensible discussion about Sai Baba (the topic of this board) without indulging in profanity and slander. Admittedly I have done this too with posting of my own links, but I appeal that this was done in response to personal slander against me.

The sum of it is that I do not feel that other people are being given a chance to speak. I would like to see more postings from people like "Doug" and "Son of man", as well as other people who may be interested enough to join the conversation.

I would really appreciate if you could step in and put a stop to this kind of overwhelming behaviour, or at least attempt to keep this board on track by virtue of warnings for people who feel unable to participate in discussion. If you have a facility for banning or moderating members, I would also advise the use of it. Thank you.

Sai Baba Exposed just HAS to be the center of attention everywhere he goes. Notice how Dadlani is ALWAYS trying desperately to monopolize the conversation and ALWAYS bossing people around teling them how they should think and act, etc.. Notice how he is trying desperately to kiss up to Freestone. How pathetic. The usual childish Dadlani playing his mind games like the dork he is.

Nobody is being kept from expressing themselves bozo It's not like they have to stand in line. Pathetic how you CONSTANTLY make up stories. Did your parents teach you to be such a con artist? Must work on all the dummies you hang out with.

Grow up bozo. You sound like an idiot.

Sanjay is trying to pull another fast one. His comment about semen traveling up the spine to the brain was MUCH earlier on (2003, I think) and Truthbliss called him on it. His direct quote stated, "Semen travels up the spine to the brain." Sanjay was bragging at the time about how he was an expert in tantra and was claiming he had learned tantra from a master. Turns out Sanjay lied about meeting Vimalanda as Vimalanda died when Sanjay was five years old.

If Sanjay would just stop lying we might be able to stop talking about his continuous lies. Don't count on it happening.

There is absolutely NOTHING constructive about Sanjay Dadlani and his continuous attempts to undermine the truth regarding Sai Baba. The anti-Sais don't want to know the truth. All they want to do is be "right" and they will ignore any and all evidence to the contrary in order to prove their childish viewpoint. They have a win at all cost mentality. For example, Alaya Rahm, poster boy and movie star for the anti-Sais just lost his lawsuit against the Sathya Sai Baba Society but you won't hear a peep out of them about it. It won't be listed in their "NEWS" section because they don't want YOU, the general public, to know about it.

Read about it here:

http://www.saisathyasai.com/Rahm-Public-Court-Records/

Namaste,
>
> The are many claims that sb cures people, some actually are
> spontaneous remissions some are temporary energising. The real
proof
> comes when sb call somebody to India to cure them and then cannot.
>
>
> http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex_baba/engels/articles/nocureatall.html


and this:
Hi Tony,
Liked your comments on yahoo groups.
Are you aware that Joy Thomas wrote in one of her books about how SB
forced her to walk and took away her wheelchair... when she could not
manage without it. (She also tells how, when she and Raye finally
moved to India and the ashram, they were totally neglected by all the
former eager helpers... and forced to live in a room where people
were
walking past day and night. Further, Joy died in a Sai hospital
through lack of blood!
Many people in whellchairs can manage a few steps or can actually
walk, butnot for far or long/ SB makes great use of this fact.
Believers are so excited when he takes their hands that they make a
great effort, in the hope of being cured. But they almost certainly
never are.
R.
Namaste,

Yes I used to correspond with Joy when she was alive, and she used to
read the sainet. She trusted sb too much even with regards to taking
or not taking medicine. Her daughter know more about this than I
do....Tony.

Sai Baba called her and couldn't cure Dorothy

 

Date: 12-08-05

From: Tony O'Clery

Email: aoclery@yahoo.com
 

Namaste,

Unfortunately for sb this is all documented by his favourite author Murphett. sb told Valmai Worthington to tell the 'Pink Twins' from Australia to be cured of their arthritic knees by him. He even told them to cancel their appointments for knee replacement surgery.

They came, he circled his hands over the knees, with coloured vibhuti and then walked her around to show a cure. She could manage to walk a little anyway, but in pain.

I was a member of the SWARA centre - where Dorothy and her sister worked -, for the years 1986 and 1987, with partial year attendances through to 1992, after that my Australian attendances were in the Sydney Centres only, and I was the secretary of the Vancouver sai centre and was well known in Canada

 

 

On February 3, 2002, a Peace Pole was planted at Sunshine Welfare and Remedial Association (SWARA) in Brisbane, Australia by SWARA founders Dorothy and Moyia O’Brien and other Sai Baba devotees.

The two sisters – known as the “Pink Twins” for their matching pink colors – established SWARA for those disabled in accidents.

On February 14, a World Peace Prayer Ceremony was held at the new Peace Pole by 50 disabled residents and local students. WPPS Director Deborah Moldow delivered a keynote speech on “Inner Peace as a Path to World Peace” at the World Goodwill Symposium held on November 17, 2001 in New York.
 
 


My friend lived with them, and my children knew them both as well.

So it was more than a passing acquaintance. There is even a photo of me working as a volunteer there. It was sent to India, perhaps it is in the book with all the others.

Well folks that was it, next time in Oz I saw her at the 'Wayside Chapel' in Sydney she was uncured for all to see.

sb is worse than the sunday morning tv frauds.

Remember most get an energy boost psychosomatically at these mass healing etc, and it lasts about 5 minutes. sb preyed on that and he claims to be God so cannot make a mistake even ONCE or he is a fraud.

 

 

"Even he with the worst karma who ceaselessly meditates on me quickly loses the effects of his past actions.'' (Sai Baba...FFWG p.257)

"The omnipresent omniscient omnipotent Sai knows the past and present and future of everyone..." "There is no ailment which he cannot cure, he does cancel the residues of karma..." (Sai Baba... FFWG p.137)
 
 


GUESS WHAT FOLKS SB IS A FRAUD OUT OF HIS OWN MOUTH WITH HIS UNHOLY AND OTHER DESIRES

My family knew the 'Pink Twins' and loved them well. We were quite upset to find out that sb had cruelly misused, conned, and mislead these devoted twins just for a bit of extra propaganda for his rotshram. It was probably one of the most despicable acts perpetrated by this pedophile, murderer, embezzler and fraud. It was unconscienable to call them to India to perpetrate this cruel hoax. It shows the demonic tendencies of this palpable fraud.

He used the work they did at SWARA, to bask in reflected glory and con more people into his spider's web of deceit. Except for villagers in India most devotees these days are naive or mentally challenged in some way, except of course for those that have sympathy with his pedophilia or a milking money and name at the centers.

Howard Murphet's opening words in his book, 'my growing public around the world', p iii; show that his own ego was at play. He already had said he wanted to be like Somerset Maugham. So Howard in his blind, bereaved, depressed, deluded state is no example of logical and clear thought unfortunately. Right from the start with his propaganda book full of lies 'Man of Miracles', Howard was always interested in Howard and his writers reputation. Many writes
write sb books for that's all they can get published, most are frustrated writers full of ego and fantasies.

The fact remains Dorothy was in a wheelchair in 1993 and still up to her death in 2003 as indicated by her sister and ABC..

You will notice in this page from a tv interview that Dorothy is still in a wheelchair. No cure from sb the cruel lying molesting fraud.

http://tinyurl.com/dmldg (Not available anymore? Click here!)

From Murphet's book, 'Sai Inner Views and Insights', ch..'Dorothy's Knees'..p116-120. Leela Press...1996.

(It is also on an Ashram Video showing sb walking Dorothy out to the crowd of devotees to show the great 'cure' he had achieved.)

"Dorothy was given a chance to have knee replacement in Brisbane but sb said this... 'No Swami replied... No operation."

Valmai asked him again. 'Swami I want to make sure I understand you correctly about Dorothy's knees. The surgeon says she must have an operation. Please tell me again what you said about that?

Swami replied, quite decisively "No operation I will operate, I will cure her." So being happy about this Dorothy cancelled the surgery after being on the waiting list in Brisbane. She was in Australia at the time but made the painful trip to India for her 'cure'.

The whole thing was a psychological adrenalin show and on return to Australia she found she wasn't cured at all... sb used her for temporary propaganda purposes after they had devoted their lives to him at SWARA.

I knew the sufferers of 'True Believer Syndrome' would be out ranting in their delusions. So here is the breakdown.

1. sb told Valmai Worthington to invite the Pink Twins to the Ashram for a cure of Dorothy's arthritic knees. He told them to cancel the knee replacement surgery as he would cure them.

2. Dorothy used a wheelchair and walking sticks. She could walk a few step anyway.

3. sb using coloured vibhuti tablets made circling motions over the knees. Then said he couldn't make a full cure due to karma. (He calls himself the king of karma so why he would say that I don't know).

4. She was excited and full of adrenalin and probably pain killers, so the walked out to the crowd like a sunday morning benny hinn healing, to show everybody how omnipotent he was.

5. She returned to the sticks and wheelchair, and was seen by thousands during the 90s in that state.

6. In 2003 hundreds of thousands perhaps millions saw her in the wheelchair on TV, and her sister Moiya saying she wished she didn't have to be in a wheelchair. Moiya by the way refused all help and healing from sb, saying that it was for Dorothy as she was much worse.

7. The only contradiction to this comes from a blind and virtually confined to the house failed writer called Howard Murphet. Who complains continually about not being Somerset Maugham.

8. The obvious personal and video tv evidence contradict this poor deluded man.

Murphet also wrote ©1996 p120:

"I have witnessed cases where Swami has made cripples walk, but I did not find out what happened to them afterwards. But since the O'Brien twins are among our closest friends, I can bear witness that the lovely Dorothy O'Brian is still walking without the aid of a wheelchair or crutchs three years after her healing."

But Murphett also wrote p iii.- Inner Views and Insights:

"To explain this I must say a few words about my eyesight. 'For the past half dozen years it has been so impaired that I am unable to read or write.' "

So Howard couldn't see, he was blind and couldn't read or write.

At the public meeting at the Wayside Chapel, known as the Noffery after the Rev Ted Noffs, Dorothy O'Brian finished speaking and couldn't walk far. She walked very slowly with people each side of her just across the room to the hallway where she had to sit down. It was here that I got her the glass of orange juice and she told me and others she wasn't fully cured and it would be gradual. This was all in public view and within the so called 3 years...

Sometimes people whose knees have been destroyed by arthritis, and the cartelidge has gone, can get some relief by losing a lot of weight and taking heavy pain killers etc. My sister has the same problem and is going in for a double knee replacement, thankfully free here in Canada or Australia. Dorothy was still under normal medical care in Queensland. As I have said she could always walk a few steps unaided, then she would need walking sticks, those non straight type, and when she was exhausted a wheelchair.

This puts the lie to sb and 'True Believer Syndrome' to poor misled and conned Dorothy, what a reward for all the work she did in that fraud's name....

Would those devotees suffering from the cognitive disfunction commonly known as 'True Believer Syndrome', please explain why she always needed her wheelchair if sb had cured her...

No, not one of sb's defending devotees have explained why Dorothy needed a wheelchair from the time of the so called cure right up to when she died. A ten year period in front of umpteen numbers of people, and on video and TV.

There are claims that she was walking around for 3 years as cured. This is not true, she was using her walking sticks etc and in a wheelchair, when tired. I don't know what kind of meds she was taking either, although she was under a doctors care for the condition still. There was no time of remission at all. She could always walk haltingly for a short time anyway... There was never any remission.

Yet sb didn't promise only a (3 years) break of her illness (which she didn't get anyway), but a complete cure. Even telling her to cancel her surgery as he would fix her and she would never need crutches and wheelchairs for the rest of her life.

I personally saw her in company of several dozens of people two years later in front of many people and she wasn't cured at all, besides I talked to her during that 3 years. She told me the healing would be gradual; well she died before it graduated.

Moiya, told me that she didn't want sb to cure her as Dorothy was worse. Dorothy suffered from 'True Believer Syndrome', as devotees do these days and couldn't face the fact that she may have wasted a lot of energy in her life believing in a fraud. Even to the exent of not believing her own disabled body, hadn't been cured...

Tony

Exbaba's version of the O'Brien story is like reading the satanic version by Tony O'Clery. Only the demonic try to do what Tony is doing to a dead person. We'll probably find out Tony O'Clery is a satanist.

*****************************************
Ever since they were small children they have believed that God is love and that goodness and love are to be found in every person. After living full lives as occupational therapists, they retired and immediately established SWARA, which provides meaningful work and education for hundreds of severely disabled people of all ages. They have directed SWARA for the last 25 years based on the principle that God is within everyone and that every person has a wonderful Divine potential eager to be expressed.  The love and joy that flows out through the Twins' autobiography has profoundly moved and inspired many people who have read their story.  The reading of their lives is an absorbing and uplifting experience. Dorothy and Moyia O'Brien are 80 year old identical twins who live in Brisbane, Australia.   "The Touch of the Lord" First published in May 1999.
It describes the lives of the O'Brien twins, "The Pink Twins", and the amazing story of SWARA - the Sunshine Welfare and Rehabilitation Association - which they established after they retired to assist severely disabled people . The real miracle is how can two elderly ladies, both severely hampered in their own mobility, manage to run a workplace for over 200 mentally and physically disabled people, on 2 hectares of derelict government land in the centre of Brisbane with only dedicated volunteers and no paid employees under the constant threat of eviction? Howard Murphett, the renowned author of "Sai Baba: Man of Miracles", "Sai Baba Avatar" and "Sai Baba: Invitation to Glory" writes in the forward - During the 18 years since I have met them, something special has grown in my heart for the unique twins Dorothy and Moyia O'Brien.  This something seems to be a mixture of spiritual love, great admiration and a special respect.  The years too have spread their name and fame throughout the large and growing Sai Organisation in Australia; they are generally known as the "Pink Twins", a name which Sai Baba Himself often uses for them.  The reason for this is that they usually dress in pink - a simple enough reason, yet pink, the colour of love and light, seems to be specially fitting and appropriate.
The cost of the book is Aus$7 plus postage .
   ----------
http://www.ronfarmer.biz/divine/listing/touch.htm

It is important to note Dorothy was in her seventies when Baba healed her in 1993. I guess O'Clery expected Baba to reverse the aging process as well.

Here is the book by Murphet; 'Sai Inner Views and Insights' - Leela Press..1996...
 
Murphet wrote:
p120: "I have witnessed cases where Swami has made cripples walk, but I did not find out what happened to them afterwards. But since the O'Brien twins are among our closest friends, I can bear witness that the lovely Dorothy O'Brian is still walking without the aid of a wheelchair or crutchs three years after her healing."

Tony has made so many ridiculous and contradictory statements and outright lies it is hard to consider him credible. He seems to jump from ism to ism for his spiritual highs.

It's funny to hear Tony accuse others of having true believer syndrome when it is well documented that O'Clery has deep connections to the reptilian conspiricists like Icke, Dan Winter and the guy who runs HiddenMysteries.org.

A lot of defamatory material has been removed from Icke's website after he was sued for defamation by a guy named Warman in Canada.

Excerpts from article by Tony O'Clery on HiddenMysteries.org:

"He bi-locates in his subtle body frequently and I myself along with my daughters have experienced this on more than one occasion. He visits people in their dreams often as well. Many devotees houses have ash and honey manifesting and dripping of pictures in their houses. I have seen this personally in Vancouver, in India at the temple at Sri Rangapatnam and other places around the world."

"I don't know whether he has taken reptilian form but it you read the great Indian Spiritual Epic,' The Ramayana', it is full of the shape-shifters that occupied the planet before Adamic man, and could take any form. "
http://www.hiddenmysteries.org/themagazine...icles/saibaba.shtml

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:GLMNUt...=clnk&cd=1&ie=UTF-8

I don't know whether it wasn't just thought forms or spirit interference that did the astral appearances of sb. Astral travel is common to all of us in dreams anyway.
To learn about shape shifters read 'Ramayana'.

I only published on icke's site, as anybody can. That doesn't mean I agree with him or disagree with him. Warman has fallen into great disrepute here in Canada generally.

Tony is a lower astral form with impaired thinking due to excessive alcohol consumption...lol.

In the almost fours years I've listened to Tony, he very rarely has anything nice to say. He thrives on negativity. In short, he is a whiner. And not only is he a whiner but he is also a pathological liar as are so many of the anti-Sais. Deception is their favorite weapon.

To put things straight I have not partaken of alcohol since 1985 nor meat either.

Namaste,

And that is whatever your last thought is, affects your next life
and where you go on the Astral.

So if you die with his image in your mind, you will end up with
other sb devotees on the AStral.

This may be ok if he was a Jesus or Rama but the fact that he is a
anal molesting pedophile full of evil and ego, it is disastrous.
FOR ONE WOULD BE A CAPTIVE SPIRIT, on the Astral and a human minon
on return to the world.

Lovelock the great UK scientist says the world has passed the
tipping point and there is only 50-100 years left for humanity, due
to the effects of global warming. This means only 4 generations
opportunity for rebirth.

DO NOT WASTE IT WITH A BUM RAPING FRAUD LIKE SB.......From the only
barking dingo

Edited by author 05-18-2006 10:23 PM
These gits don't seem able to get it into their thick heads that it's all about Sai Baba and nobody else.

Moreover, alcoholism is an illness, and a debilitating one at that. If Tony O'Clery is a recovering alcoholic then he gets my full encouragement and support for that, as do all recovering alcoholics. I find it absolutely inhumane that devotees of a so-called loving God would relentlessly delight in shoving the issue of alcohol constantly into the face of recovering alcoholics, considering that the risk of relapse for recovering is a very real and present danger.

Shame on them, is what I have to say on the matter.

And just in case someone brings up my own references to alcohol and Simon Brace (another abusive devotee of Sai Baba), I have also publicly expressed sympathy for his own alcoholic affliction with all due emotion. The reason why I may bring up Simon's alcoholism is that he also doesn't seem to understand that it's all about Sai Baba and no one else, what to speak of the fact that he constantly points out the fauls (real or imagined) in other people while ignoring his own. To me, that is not the sign of a true spiritualist nor the sign of a true Sai devotee. There are tons of Sai devotees who have far better characters than these guys, why do we have to deal with the scrapings from the bottom of the barrel?

Sai Baba is well known for talking a lot of nonsense (such as his declarations to be the Lord of Lords, God incarnate upon earth) but it is very rare to hear of these things being written down on paper.

In marked contrast to his publicised speeches where he says anything and everything that he likes, we'd like to invite you all to find out how The Pen Is Mightier Than The Mouth.

when I have more time, I intend to write about what baba thinks of the Internet! As i understand what i have read, I think that he says that there is nothing good in it!
or computers.

or Indian movies either.

ah, born before 1960! I have friends now, who are at age 50, who think that the internet is an alien thing, not for them. And that "right click"
is just as an "occult' subject as some dusty tome from 1500 AD!!
[the digital divide]

I will google to see what baba actually SAYS about the interent and computers, soon

freestone

Sanjay just proved himself to be a liar (once again). Go to his blog, SaiBabaExposed, and look at the "Links" section. One will notice that all the solicited links go to Anti-Sai Sites. The list is as follows (and I have it screen-capped in case Sanjay decides to pull one of his deceptive stunts):

ExBaba.Com
SaiGuru.Net
The Enigma Reconsidered (Robert Priddy's Anti-Sai Site)
Brian Steel's Ongoing Investigation

These links are listed on every single page, as they are part of the side menu. So when I said, "Take a look at his blog and all Sanjay does is advertise Anti-Sai Sites!", I was telling the truth. And it's there for anyone to verify for him/her self.

Edited by author 05-22-2006 08:26 PM
I submit that Joe108 is being deceitful and is twisting the discussion in a manner to suit himself, as he is famous for doing. That is, assuming that his points are even relevant to this discussion board in the first place.

In /m31, Joe108 (Gerald 'Joe' Moreno) stated the following:

"I'll aptly note that despite Sanjay Dadlani's accusations of 'malicious and defamatory content' on my site, he does not cite the pages or provides any links to examples of such."

My reply in /m62 stated the following:

"Joe108 (Gerald 'Joe' Moreno) is a liar. He claims that I only promote anti-Sai links on my "Sai Baba EXPOSED!" blog. This is wholly untrue; I have reference pro-Sai sites all over my blog, especially the places where I quote Sai Baba directly by providing a link to original discourse files hosted on official Sai websites. At least I go to some lengths to track down Sai Baba's words directly to the record, which is something that most devotees never do and are simply content with paraphrasing him, their worshippable Lord and master in /m48 for an example."

This remains true then as now. Just a cursory reading of the front page of my blog (as it stands of 23/05/06) reveals that there are no less than three links to official Sathya Sai Baba sites in one of my recent postings: Sai Baba and the Sarvadharma Imbroglio.

Clearly I am referring to links posted within my articles where I have linked to official discourse files, vahini sites and even to a Sai video site! Gerald Moreno wants to deliberately deceive people by ignoring all of this in order to focus on my "Links" section. Clearly I can do nothing about my Links section as he correctly notes that it is displayed on every page on my blog; That's the way Blogger works, nothing I can do about it.

Focusing on one area and deliberately ignoring the MANY articles that I have written which include profuse links (whenever applicable) to official and devotional Sai sites is deception on the part of Gerald Moreno.

I think that Gerald should realise that his postings are not even welcome here considering that he hasn't posted anything substantial to the topic of this forum, and instead comes here only to attack former devotees of Sathya Sai Baba. And lie while doing it too. Shameful and pathetic.

Hi Freestone,

I think that is a very good topic for discussion. Although I haven't composed a blog about Sai Baba's internet views (I should do so soon!), I have nevertheless written something about his views on television and movies.

You might like to check it out: Sai Baba and the Evils of Television.

That's another article that contains profuse links to official Sai sites. :-)

Go back and re-read my message. Interpret, twist and deny what I said as much as you like. The fact of the matter is that the links to Pro-Sai Sites (that you make mention to) are solely confined to the individual articles that contain those Pro-Sai links. While, on the other hand, the Anti-Sai links (I made reference to) are displayed on every single page on your blog because they are located on the side menu.

So the only person twisting anything is you, Sanjay. Get a grip. You sound really desperate.

All About Sanjay Dadlani (Sai Baba Exposed)
Sanjay Dadlani Exposed Blog

Edited by author 05-22-2006 11:17 PM
Gerald 'Joe' Moreno, go back and read your own messages. Especially these: /m31, /m62, /m96. Interpret, twist and deny what I said as much as you like.

The fact of the matter is that you are deflecting the issue and focusing on my 'Links' section which I was not referring to. The fact remains that I do reference Pro-Sai links whenever applicable, and your contention that I do not do so is a lie. Your second lie is your contention that you are referring to Anti-Sai links. Show us the message where you explicitly stated that you were referring to these links.

You cannot do so because you never said anything of the sort. :-) Again I will need to drive it into Gerald's thick head that I have no control over the way Blogger works; if their templates allow for my 'Links' section to show up on every page then there is nothing I can do about it. How obtuse of Gerald to attempt to blame me for something that is beyond my control.

Get a grip and find your way out of the web of your own self-created lies. As for desperation, I'm not the one continuing to focus on topics that are irrelevant to the subject of this board. So much so that I'll state it again: "I think that Gerald should realise that his postings are not even welcome here considering that he hasn't posted anything substantial to the topic of this forum, and instead comes here only to attack former devotees of Sathya Sai Baba. And lie while doing it too. Shameful and pathetic."

Get lost, Gerald. :-)

Sai Baba's Naughty Children: Gerald 'Joe' Moreno.

Since Gerald Moreno has continually proved himself to be utterly incapable of engaging in a discussion about Sathya Sai Baba (the topic of this board) and can only attack former devotees and proceed to lie about it, I think that this will be my final post on this scoundrel. I shall now take the high road and restrict myself to discussing only points about Sathya Sai Baba.