u cannot abuse me and try to make me angry and divert the attention. What answer? even now u just abused me and not answered me.
  "asleep or drunk usedbybaba " "not the brightest crayon in the box" I am not a cryon but baba is ,After all he is red.
  none of u told me why babas date of birth is wrong in his school register at uravakonda.
  I also asked you about the ex.baba videos showing him cheating his materilisations and u have no answer. of course u will just send me an abuse mail and get away with it. I know u do not want to know the truth.
  now tell me who is hiding from the truth.
  when i went away i did mention it and i came back.
  By the way why is joe not answering. now u can hide and he will answer. he now would not come to the point .
   
   
  
QT - Lisa De Witt <qtopic+29-FE68KidtskS@quicktopic.com> wrote:


     
---------------------------------
 Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get it NOW < replied-to message removed by QT >

You must be asleep or drunk usedbybaba. I replied to your post a long time ago and you ran away. Additionally, if you were paying attention you would have known that Joe has posted the link to his website numerous times and his name is ALL over his website. You are obviously not the brightest crayon in the box. I think it's funny that you are hiding behind an anonymous name whining about other people hiding! Sorry abusbybaba, like I said before, it's obvious you are a liar and a game player. You have not stated even ONE specific that can be corroborated. When asked by gr8sink you ran away like a coward too. Criminal allegations are to be addressed in court. We can't help it if you anti-Sais are so cowardly that you think the internet is going to get you anywhere with your continuous lies.

how is that peple like joe 108 do not reply to people like me.Is it convenience. Well now they will immediately tell me to reveal my identity.
That is the easiest way. How about the ex.baba .com videos showing baba cheating his "materialisations" If you want me to reveal my identity please you show me by doing it yourself.Afterall you are a Devotee and BaBa will save you.
Do you have the guts

who is the administrator?

Hi,
          May I point your attention to Obadiah Shoher's book, Samson Blinded: A Machiavellian Perspective on the Middle East Conflict?
Yahoo and Google banned the book's website from their ad programs for "unacceptable content," and Amazon deleted all reviews. The book, however, is only honest, and the measures suggested are only rational.
Shoher is a pen name for veteran politician. He dealt with antiterrorism issues for most of his career. The Samson Blinded dissects honestly the problems accumulated since the Jews returned to Palestine. Advocating political rationalism, it deplores both Jewish and Muslim myths, and argues for efficiency and separating politics from moralism.
Please download a copy from www.terrorismisrael.com
           Being banned from Google, we depend on links to bring Shoher's message. May I ask you to link to us from your site?
 
Thank you,

Sheila

Namaste,

Yes I was present when Danny gave sb his Australian Passport in an
envelope, TWICE , over a period of time. sb was known to help people
extend their visas if they went to a devotee policeman in Anantapur.
sb just gave it him back twice!!!Although in an Aussie interview he
gave him one of those alloy rings of Saraswati, indicating he was a
devotee of the Goddess.

So in the end sb let him go to jail and be deported from India for
loving him too much. Daniel Valentine Grier was betrayed by sb his
guru.

Do you know why John left the hospital and ashram? I'll give you
another chance to show us you knew him. Also John and his assistant
had a hands energising session, at different times!!!!

Plus I will post a url to my article on the orange lodge so the
world can see what liars and distorters lisa simon and joe
are...Tony. Would you guys like to see a photo of me with sb to
prove my visits to the ashram?

Another garrulous reply from motormouth Sanjay. I have already responded to Anti-Sai Activist's response On This Separate Thread.

Since Sanjay claims to be so intimately familiar with Alaya's failed lawsuit, then he should have no problem getting scans to the court records that refute the points I made. Sanjay is arguing his case via prattle :-)

Unlike Sanjay (aka "Sai Baba EXPOSED"), I have given a full response to his posts against me: View My Full Response To Sanjay Kishore Dadlani's Defmatory Blog Posts Against Me.

It does not matter how long it took the defense to find a witness on their behalf. The fact remains that the defense did find a witness. During this same time-frame, the Plaintiff's side were unable to find (out of alleged "hundreds" of USA victims) even one single witness on Alaya Rahm's behalf. Not even one single deposition or affidavit was accepted on Alaya Rahm's behalf. Zero. Zilch. Now if Sanjay would like for others to take him seriously, he should provide us with scans to the public court record that refute these claims. He has not provided any scans to any court record, documents or letters to support his views against my comments.

Sanjay has yet to provide any court records or documents that support the LIES that Alaya's case was "was heard by Judge John M. Watson of the Superior Court, County of Orange, California, on April 28th, 2006", that Conway, Payne or Roche were identified by the court as witnesses or were not allowed to submit depositions, that William Brelsford was "working against a statute of limitations deadline" when Alaya dismissed his case, etc., etc.

Alaya's objective was to sue the Society for money damages. He self-dismissed his lawsuit before it went to trail. Now Sanjay might not see this as a "failure", but I do. Alaya failed in his objective. The Society was fully prepared to go to court. The Society never wavered or budged once inch. The society never caved in. Alaya did. Period. End of argument.

Furthermore, I do not need to endlessly engage myself with a fully exposed pervert who happens to be a pathological lair.

Exposing "SaiBabaExposed", Sanjay Kishore Dadlani

Edited by author 07-31-2006 01:13 AM
Didn't take long for the ad-hominem attacks to start, did it? :-)

And in tandem too, wow we are honoured! :-) Tsk tsk, what a pity. And just when I thought that we were all actually here to discuss Sathya Sai Baba.


>> water down the issue, discombobluate the reader and deflect from the core issues by making specious, half-baked arguments, citing no official court records, documents or scans to Brelsford's letters to support his comments. <<


Er, sorry, but my points still stand. I have shown exactly how Gerald 'Joe' Moreno has been inconsistent and avoiding the core issues.

How ironic that Moreno speaks about specious and half-baked arguments when he is the one who focuses inordinately on why it took sixteen moths to find out that the Society was a bookstore, when the same reasoning can be applied to why it took the defendants sixteen months to find a defence witness who, by the way, is so obviously prejudiced in favour of Sai Baba that his testimony would have been ripped to shreds in court in all likelihood. :-)

And then let's not talk about Moreno's constant flip-flopping on the issue of Brelsford's "expertise" in legal matters. He just cannot make up his own mind on that. :-)

And then let's not talk about why Moreno appears to insist that every Sai devotee or serving officer in the Sai "Organisatio" should be privy to the details of the organisation's incorporation details. :-)

And then let's not discuss Moreno's points that betray his insufficient knowledge of psychology, and how psychology is not just restricted to descriptions about just "trauma". :-)

And then let's not discuss Moreno's knowingly disseminating DISINFORMATION by insinuating that the Rahm case was self-dismissed because of Kreydick's deposition. Not to mention his other disinformation about the court case is deemed as a "failure". :-)

Oh dear, I exposed so many of Moreno's avoidances and inconsistencies that it's getting too much just to recap them. Just read it all again: /m187. :-)

We can expect more of the same, and an increase in the ad-hominem attacks. :-) It just goes to show what depths devotees are dragged down to when they're losing the argument. :-)

P.S. And for the record, I have never downloaded child porn or viewed it any way, nor do I have any connections with child pornography. This malicious accusation has never been proven, but is always brought up (along with other malicious and distorted accusations) whenever devotees lose the argument. :-) Too bad that discussions with Sai Baba devotees almost always ends up with mudslinging on their part. They should perhaps go back to school and learn how to take part in a conversation/discussion/debate.

Sai Baba's Naughty Children.

Edited by author 07-31-2006 12:34 AM
Regarding Lisa's post (/m191):

Tony O'Clery Exposed

Sanjay Dadlani Exposed (aka "Sai Baba EXPOSED")

It is amusing that Sai Baba EXPOSED" (aka Sanjay Dadlani) is trying to take a moral and ethical stand against Sathya Sai Baba when he has been fully exposed for his StreetBitches Blog, his Jesus Sex Fetish, his views on Child And Teen Pornography, his self-admitted Psychological Problems, his Views About Women, his self-admitted Drinking Problems, his Satanic Inclinations, his Shocking Confessions, his Long And Established History As A Pathological Liar, his apparent outward Denial Of His Own Guru Srila Prabhupada, his public Lie About Meeting Aghori Vimalananda, his Homoeroticism And Gender Confusion, and his Inability To Keep A Girlfriend.

This is the guy who is posting here, trying to deceive everyone into thinking he is rational and sober. He isn't.

Predictably (of course), Sanjay's typical responses will be that the debate is not about him, his character is not important and that he is going to refute my "lies" and "defamations" about him at some unknown future date. One will also notice how Sanjay resorts to long, rambling (and very boring) diatribes (as evidenced in his latest post: /m187) to water down the issue, discombobluate the reader and deflect from the core issues by making specious, half-baked arguments, citing no official court records, documents or scans to Brelsford's letters to support his comments.

Edited by author 07-31-2006 12:22 AM
Yeah, Sanjay aka saiexposed420, we're all familiar with your sordid history too, i.e. admitting downloading child porn after I found your posts on ajesus porn site and lying about working for the Internet Watch Foundation. not to mention how you have continuously harassed Sai devotees for YEARS. Unfortunately for you this is ALL documented in saisathyasai.com so you can lie all you want about your perversions but your own words are now documented for the whole world to see.

The fact remains that MOST of the anti-Sais, like Sanjay, have major mental problems as a result of alcohol/drug abuse. The truth is coming out now about them and they are throwing hissy fits like you see Sanjay doing here. Sanjay's partner in crime, Tony O'Clery has been reduced to hiding behind other usernames spewing more of his foul-mouthed sexual perversions and lies that he is so well-known for. Joe has been documenting this on another blog so people can see how warped O'Clery is. These are the wackos that are attacking Sai Baba.


http://tony-oclery-exposed.blogspot.com/20...ality-disorder.html

Looks to me that Lisa De Witt's article (/m188), when first published online, was deemed so ridiculous that nobody bothered to even look at it. Even though it is right in front of me here, I haven't looked at it. That is because I am familiar with LDW's history and I know from experience that she very rarely states documented facts, does not address any of the pertinent issues, and is simply regurgitated propaganda. With a generous dash of conspiracy theory to spice up the meal.

Anyway, I wanted to state something for the record. As well as Gerald Moreno stating his inconsistent and contradictory propaganda everywhere, he has also been claiming that the Alaya Rahm court case was a failure. In this connection, I'd like to copy here a response to this point that I made elsewhere, just in case Moreno tries to play the same tricks here.


--------------------------------

Even funnier watching both Gerald Moreno and Lisa De Witt drive themselves up the wall about how the Alaya Rahm court case was a "failure".

How exactly was it a "failure"?

A "failure" can only be called as such if Alaya lost the case or if it was thrown out of court for some reason.

Neither of these things happened. Rather, Alaya SELF-DISMISSED (get that? SELF-dismissed) his case for extremely reasonable legal reasons; namely that the Sai Organisation is actually not an "organisation" and is thus not culpable for any legal claims made against it as such. This is an extremely embarrassing exposé for the Sai "Organisation" and will be a lot of fuel to our fire for years to come.

There is no question of the case being stood up for scrutiny because things did not get that far. This are just meaningless speculations and guesswork by devotees whose brains have melted. How can it be possible to speculate about a court case that never happened, much less declare it to be a "failure"?

We even know of how certain Sai leaders have been scrambling around writing letters to everybody to explain their NEW position with regards to legal culpability. But that's another story. :-)

In the meantime, expect Gerald Moreno and Lisa De Witt to continue their rabid drivel about a "failed" court case when it was anything BUT a failure. :-)

Then the LORD said to Cain, "Where is your brother Abel?" "I don't know," he replied. "Am I my brother's keeper?" The LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground. Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand. When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth."

Exbaba.com revising history and making more excuses
by Lisa De Witt
©2006LisaDeWitt

In a long-overdue statement regarding the failed Alaya Rahm lawsuit, Exbaba.com & Co. has managed once again to try and rewrite history and deceive those who are not familiar with the legal issues.

In their opening statement they claim,
"The case was heard by Judge John M.
Watson of the Superior Court, County of Orange, California, on April 28th, 2006.'"

Apparently someone forgot to inform the author of this article that the case was NOT heard by the judge because it was dismissed in April, more than two weeks before the trial was to start.

As if this weren't bad enough, the title of this article shows Exbaba.com & Co. cannot even get the name of the organization they are writing about correct! Yet, how critical Exbaba.com & Co. are of others perceived faults, oversights and indiscretions. However, this grand oversight is not surprising to those who know how sloppy this group has been with their historical facts.

Exbaba.com & Co. go on to state that the Rahm's attorney made the following statement.

"We were successful at the demurrer stage in establishing that a duty would be owed by the Society in the event they sponsored and/or endorsed the trips that Alaya went on when he was abused by Sai Baba. As it turns out, the Society is not the "hub" of all of Sai Baba's corporate activities. Rather, the Society, pursuant to declarations under penalty of perjury, confirmed they are a bookstore...nothing more. Accordingly, we do not have the necessary factual requirements to establish liability on the Society/Book center."

So, we are led to believe that Brelsford, a competent, experienced child abuse attorney FINALLY realized after a year long investigation or only as a result of a deposition that the Sathya Sai Baba Society was merely a bookstore and not an organization which could be sued? Holy Batman, what a revelation! Now they are hiding behind bookstores!

However, if one reads Kreydick's March 16 deposition, one might surmise that the Rahms led Brelsford to believe that the Sathya Sai Baba Society had paid for Alaya's trip to India and when the truth came out that Kreydick, a then family friend of the Rahm's had paid for the trip, Brelsford was left with egg on his face and no where to go but through the exit door..

Several online documents put Brelsford's alleged statement into question. The Sathya Sai Book Center does operate under the umbrella of the Sathya Sai Baba Society which is a non-profit corporation, NOT a bookstore.

According to a statement on sathyasai.org web site,

"The Sathya Sai Book Center of America is the official wholesale and retail distributor of Sathya Sai Baba literature in the United States, as authorized by Sathya Sai Baba in 1969. The Book Center operates within the jurisdiction of the Sathya Sai Baba Society, a non-profit corporation registered in the State of California."

The Sathya Sai Baba Society is also a vehicle set up to receive donations as evidenced by a recent online obituary.

"Donations may be made to the Sathya Sai Baba Society 305 West 1st Street Tustin California 92780, in William Altmann's name."

In an article titled, Hindu Diaspora and Religious Philanthropy in the United States,
Priya Anand describes the function of the Sathya Sai Baba Society.

"Members and devotees who wish to donate funds to projects in India are directed to the Sathya Sai Baba Society, a nonprofit corporation registered in the State of California. "The Sai organization does not solicit funds" says Mr Bob Bozzani, president of the Sathya Sai Baba Society of America. "However if anybody of their own accord wishes to donate money, we do not turn them away." The society is registered as a nonprofit with 501C(3) status and provides 100% tax exemptions to individuals who choose to donate money to the society, but this is not publicized. Any cash or checks received by the society are immediately sent to the Sathya Sai Central Trust..."

So one can easily see from online documents that the Sathya Sai Baba Society is not "just" a bookstore. It appears that Exbaba.com & Co. are attempting to distract from the fact that the Society could NOT be held liable for Alaya's trips because they, in FACT, had NOTHING to do with those trips.

But the excuses don't end there. Then Exbaba.com & Co. go on to state,

"No court found Alaya's allegations to be false. Simply, the suit could not continue on a technicality, and the claims of sexual abuse stand irrefutably true, just as before. The Sathya Sai Organization could take legal cover behind its bookstore."

In another attempt at reverse logic, the Exbaba crew conveniently forget that no court has EVER found the allegations to be "irrefutably" true and due process is the legal standard to be met, NOT media hype and propaganda from the questionable quarters that Exbaba & Co. live and breathe for. Their "believe me because I said so" mentality doesn't wash in the REAL world.

Then Exbaba.com & Co. attempt to go back into the past and rehash the usual unsubstantiated claims with much hand wringing, mudslinging and excuses as to why they are oh-so-powerless to find their way into a courtroom. They state,

"The Sathya Sai Organization has set itself up to avoid legal accountability and full public scrutiny. There is no legal entity in the United States against which a lawsuit demanding responsibility of Goldstein and other key directors of the Sathya Sai Society of America can be brought. The Organization's leaders will not truly investigate or let the lower echelon leadership and the rank-and-file members know the nature and seriousness of the accusations against Sai Baba. "


It seems to me that Exbaba.com & Co. has set itself up to avoid legal accountability and FULL public scrutiny. Exbaba.com & Co. just can't seem to get it through their heads (and stop trying to mislead the public while they are at it) that it is NOT the organization's duty to investigate "itself" regarding criminal allegations. That is law enforcement's job. It is the accuser's RESPONSIBILITY to file a criminal complaint in the appropriate jurisdiction. Not only that but ANYBODY can file a lawsuit against ANY person as long as they are within the statute of limitations, which most of the accusers AREN'T (due to their OWN suspicious negligence).

We are also led by Exbaba.com & Co. to believe that those in the Sai Baba organization are not being informed as to the allegations when we know this is patently false. How can those in the organization NOT know about the allegations when they have been called, email-bombed and sent letters from the mob of anti-Sai activists hungry for blood? On one hand, Exbaba..com & Co. are continually bragging and ranting about how membership has declined due to their "very successful" international media campaign yet now we are supposed to believe, "nobody in the org" is being informed. Will somebody PLEASE make up their mind?

The rest of the article is more of the same mudslinging, "feel-sorry-for-us-we-are-so powerless-against-the-fraud" and the big bad "ignorant" Indian government, racist-smelling drivel and propaganda from the powerless Exbaba.com & Co..

And finally, Exbaba.com & Co. attempts, once again, to gain sympathy by bringing up "poor" Alaya, the now 27 year old man who was "so traumatized" by Sai Baba that, after his interview at the age of eighteen, he begged for more interviews and went out giving public speeches lauding Sai Baba's love and spiritual powers. Alaya was so "traumatized" he even wrote Sai Baba a love poem.

I don't know about anyone else, but I could not STAND to be in the same room with my abuser after he molested me. I would run out of the building to get away from him.

Then Exbaba.com & Co. disingenuously state,
 
"Those who know Alaya and his family are satisfied that they have told the truth. Indeed, the penalty for lying to a court in the USA, a legal system which Alaya Rahm was every bit prepared to face, is severe!"

NOT everyone who "knows" Alaya and his family believe them. Many people who "know" them, such as Kreydick, do not believe them. I personally saw Al Rahm give a speech in the early-to-mid-nineties applauding Sai Baba for saving him from death in the Andies mountains. There is also a video of Al's talk (under the alias, Seral Rahm) being sold at Sai centers. Al and Marisa were selling their music tapes at the talk and Alaya was not there. I do not believe them because I have irrefutable direct personal experience that the Rahms have contradicted themselves. And WHERE is Alaya's deposition? I haven't seen it so I cannot be convinced that Alaya (or any other accuser) was prepared to face the consequences of lying. According to Exbaba.com & Co., not one of the accusers even made a deposition. We are supposed to take the word of accusers who claim to have such a strong case yet cannot even make it into a courtroom. Even I, a molestation victim (whose abuser is now deceased) at the age of thirteen do not believe Alaya. After almost four years of intensive research I do NOT believe ANY of the allegations withstand scrutiny.

Contrary to Exbaba.com & Co.'s hollow lip service regarding sensitivity toward molestation victims, this molestation victim has been harassed, vilified and lied to by Exbaba & Co.. for trying to tell the truth and nothing BUT the truth regarding the allegations set forth out of court by Sai Baba's accusers.

In order to believe Exbaba.com & Co., you not only have to revise history, you have to forget it completely.

References:

Alaya Rahm's Lawsuit vs Sathya Sai Society of America:
http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex_baba/engels/articles/alayarahm.htm

A Scathing Response by Joe Moreno:
http://www.sai-fi.net/z-alaya-rahm.shtml

Alaya Rahm Dismisses His Own Lawsuit
Against The Sathya Sai Baba Society:
http://www.saisathyasai.com/Rahm-Public-Court-Records/

Edited by author 07-30-2006 01:59 AM
Re /m182:

>> Sanjay Dadlani (aka, "Sai Baba Exposed") is totally ignorant about Alaya's court case and is basing his information on faulty information dispersed by the Rahm Family and JuST. <<

Gerald 'Joe' Moreno (aka, "Joe108") should perhaps learn not to speak so presumptuously about my knowledge of the Alaya Rahm case. He would do well to realise that I and my colleagues are in full knowledge of the Rahm case, given that we are in touch with all parties concerned namely the Rahm family and their attorney, W. Brelsford.

While we're on that subject I think it's about time Moreno came clean and publicly disclosed his sources if he wishes to make this an issue, in the interests of informing the public.


>> Sanjay has not refuted anything I have posted on my separate thread regarding this matter. <<

An extremely silly thing to say. My post (/m181) was clearly addressing the issues brought up in /m178 and nothing else. I personally have no interest in reading any "separate threads" (where Moreno is simply posting repetitions of his own articles as published before on his website) when we are all here to discuss it here.


>> It is amusing that Anti-Sai Activists claim that Kreydick's testimony "could easily be contested by expert psychologists". Notably, in pretrial discovery, Alaya Rahm claimed that he had suffered no psychological trauma that would have required medical or psychiatric care. Furthermore, Alaya identified no psychologist who had ever examined him! So it does not appear that there were any "expert psychologists" who were prepared to support or defend Alaya's position (scans coming soon). <<

Moreno is engaging in deception. Notice that he started the above paragraph with, "Regarding Sanjay's comment" and then proceeds to quote a passage from the JuST statement! Moreno would do well not to carelessly mix up comments and source material, given his mind-numbing pedantry for proper sourcing in other areas of the Internet.

Regarding the point at hand, Moreno either has an insufficient knowledge of psychology or he is just deliberately playing dumb. The fact that Alaya Rahm claims not to have suffered psychological trauma or the fact that no psychologist examined him has nothing to do with the salient facts of the case. The scope of psychology is broader than people may think, and certainly exceeds in it's insights into the human mind beyond just "trauma". For example, one may wonder why Alaya continued to visit Sai Baba and wish for more experiences when he was being sexually abused (a question that has been asked many times). Psychologists, specifically trained abuse support workers, would be able to sufficiently explain this.

If Moreno or anyone else wishes to make a serious case using psychological reasoning, he/they would do well not to conveniently forget the Added complications that arise regarding Sai Baba's numerous declarations about his own divinity and also the effect that this has on his followers. For that matter, if Moreno and others wish to defend Sai Baba, they had better be prepared to explain the effect of these queer paradigms on the mind of a 16-18 year old (Alaya's age range during the abuse) what to speak of Sai Baba's own threatening behaviour and demands for forced secrecy. What does Moreno think of the effect all all these combined factors may have on the mind of a 16-18 year old boy?

No, scratch that. Moreno's opinion will be irrelevant considering that does not hold a psychological qualification of any form.


>> The Rahms (based on their own admission) were not novices to the Sai Organization. To the contrary, Al Rahm claimed three decades of membership, including holding important regional positions in the Sai Organization in the USA. If the Society was truly a "bookstore", Al Rahm would have known this. Brelsford accepted Alaya's case and pursued it for sixteen months. <<

Moreno deceptively quotes the JuST statement and attributes it to me again. Moreno then goes on to make his point in different ways. Regarding this particular point, Moreno should be aware that not everyone is aware about the incorporation status of their employ, nor is there any reason why they should be aware. To make it clearer, there is no reason why every employee of the Coca-Cola company or McDonald's (for example) should be privy to details regarding the incorporation status of their company, nor is there any reason why they should be aware. Unlike McDonald's or Coca-Cola, the Sai Organisation is not a company that provides food or entertainment to the public (unless you count distribution of vibhuti and weekly bhajans as sources of entertainment, as I do). We all know that the Sai Organisation's function is simply to operate weekly, monthly or bi-monthly gatherings by which devotees and followers of Sai Baba can congregate to sing bhajans, do seva and other things like Bal Vikas classes for the children. That is a conservative estimation of the Sai Organisation's function and rarely does anything unusual take place.

Consequently, the fact that Al Rahm held several important positions (which, funnily enough, Moreno does not specify) leads us to wonder what exactly his role was in the Organisation, what to speak of the fact whether he should be privy to details regarding the Organisation's incorporation. This is an incredibly facile argument from Moreno. I am surprised that such a point would even be brought forward for presentation.


>> Surely an experienced trial lawyer would have been able to ascertain that the Society was a "bookstore" within a few days/weeks time. <<

I must say that I find it absolutely hilarious that Moreno now questions Brelsford's "experience" as a trial lawyer when it is convenient for him. For the record, it should be known that Moreno has all along (until now) been referring to Brelsford's "experience" as a trial lawyer in the manner of taunting. When Moreno was gushing about the "failure" of the Rahm case, he repeatedly made reference to Brelsford's experience as a trial lawyer and insinuated that Brelsford knew that the case was "weak", which is why the "experienced lawyer" advised Alaya Rahm to self-dismiss his case.

Now, after the Sai Organisation has been publicly humiliated and embarrassed with the information that it is nothing but a bookstore and not an international organisation as previously thought (implying that they can get away scot-free with anything using the "we are just a bookstore" excuse!), Moreno consistently avoids addressing this point and instead tries to deflect attention to why the Rahm's didn't know this and why Brelsford didn't know this, even making a complete turnabout and questioning Brelsford's experience! Funny that!

In reply, we can say that it is nothing to do with Moreno. :-) After all, he is not a trial lawyer, nor is he a legal representative, nor has he ever presented himself as being knowledgable about the legal process in general. It is not necessary for him to be privy to the details of the case. Moreno might do well to question his own sources, namely the ones who fed him all the information in the first place. :-)


>> The claim that lawsuit was dropped because the Society is a "bookstore" is an excuse, and a poor one at that. <<

Moreno's opinion is not acceptable or relevant in a court of law. :-) The fact remains that the Sai Organisation is de facto "un-sueable" precisely because it is a bookstore and nothing more. It does not matter if the Rahms knew this. It does not matter if Brelsford took sixteen moths to discover this (according to Moreno, which is a lie). What does matter is that the Sai Organisation does not appear to be a proper legal entity by which any abuses effected within it, from it or by it can make them answerable for said abuses in a court of law! And that is a poor show.

The question now shifts to the premise of how and why the Sai Organisation is more or less allowed to get away with anything scot-free by using the "we are just a bookstore" excuse. What a cynical ploy by the Sai Organisation; to avoid hard questions being asked about why the directors of the Organisation (Hislop et al) did nothing at all when they were informed about Sai Baba's alleged sexually abusive behaviour as far back as the early 1980s as well as many other hard questions, they worm their way out of court with a chorus of "we are just a bookstore".

This itself goes to show how much respect the Sai Organisaiton has for the law. After all, if all the parties were innocent and had nothing to hide, there should have been no problem about all this coming out in court. Running scared.


>> Diana Payne and Mark Roche were never identified to the court as witnesses on behalf of the plaintiff (Alaya Rahm). Attorney Brelsford would have had to identify Payne and Roche to the court as witnesses, so that either he (or the opposing attorney) could take depositions from them ... Why is it that Diana Payne, Mark Roche and Timothy Conway were never identified to the court as witnesses by attorney Brelsford? Why is it that Payne, Roche and Conway failed to submit depositions on behalf of Alaya? <<

It is not our problem if Moreno didn't know if Payne, Roche and others were identified as witnesses to the court. One may well ask the same question as to why it took the Sai Organisation sixteen months to find a witness for the defendant, namely Lewis Kreydick. Let's not fight with phantoms here when Moreno tries to obfuscate the issue with pseudo-intelligent language. The exact same reasoning can be applied to the legal moves of the Sai Organisation: Why did it take sixteen months for the Sai Org. to declare Lewis Kreydick as a witness for the defence and/or take his deposition?


>> Such being the case, the claim that "important depositions were not able to be heard in court" is a blatant distortion of the truth and amounts to nothing less than prevarication. Why doesn't Sanjay provide us with court documents to back up this lie from JuST? The records are now public record. Where are the depositions or references to Payne, Roche or Conway? I would like to see them. <<

Er... what connections does Moreno have with this case? I wouldn't be so sure that the prosecuting witnesses calling was a "lie", but what investment does Moreno have with this case that we should inform him of developments? If Moreno (correctly) claims that the court records are now a matter of public availability, why does he contradict himself by asking to see court records that are "supposedly" hidden from the public?

I can bet money that Moreno would like to see them! Unfortunately, he has no reason to be privy to the case details unless and until he firmly and publicly declares his interests and investment(s) in this matter. The fact that he claims not to be a devotee of Sathya Sai Baba despite spending an inordinate amount of time and energy in defending him brings up very serious questions as to his suitability as a candidate.


>> Kreydick's deposition was/is a sworn, signed, legal court record which was taken with Brelsford present and offering objections. This deposition was intended to be used in the court case that Alaya self-dismissed just prior to the trial being heard and not long after Kreydick's deposition was taken. <<

Unfortunately, Moreno is making a facile argument again. I never questioned Kreydick's deposition as a sworn statement nor did I question it's probably inclusion and reference in the forthcoming trial. At the risk of repeating myself, I simply made the point as follows (which I made after the passage that Moreno quotes above and which he did not address):

"The other thing that nobody says is that the case was self-dismissed. Joe108 would like to tell people that this self-dismissal is connected to the taking of Kreydick's deposition. It is not. The two events were pure coincidence and nothing else. To say otherwise is to knowingly submit DISINFORMATION."

To put it simply, this refers to Moreno's insinuations that Alaya Rahm's case was "weak" and that he self-dismissed the case almost immediately after Kreydick's testimony was taken. The fact that these two events took place within a few days of each other does not confirm Moreno's insinuations, especially as we now know the real reason for the self-dismissal (the sliminess of the Sai Organisation's legal ploys).


>> Now, however, they claim they sued the wrong defendants in the wrong court and in the wrong country. <<

Pardon? Is Moreno getting a tad ahead of himself here? Where did the Rahms/JuST claim this?


>> No one can seriously rationalize that the Rahms (or their experienced trial lawyer) could have seriously believed that a USA court would have jurisdiction over Sathya Sai Baba as an individual defendant for events that were alleged to have occurred in India. <<

First, let me invite Moreno to clarify his contradictions. He first taunted people that Brelsford was an experienced trial lawyer who could see the "weaknesses" in Alaya's case. Earlier in his post he appeared to question Brelsford's experience. Now he affirms Brelsford's experience yet again! Pardon me, but I do think that a person like Brelsford would be amused to see the dogs yapping at his heels in their ignorance of his capabilities. Moreno will have to make up his mind. He will have to pick a position and stick with it: Is Brelsford a knowledgeable and experience trial lawyer or not?

The other thing with this troubling passage is that Moreno doesn't seem satisfied with Brelsford's experience (or not, pending his clarification) but even goes so far as to question the judge as well! After all, Brelsford (in the joint statement between the Rahms and JuST) states thus:

“The lawsuit against Sai Baba (individually) was dropped because the judge indicated in the initial court appearance that he did not wish to see us pursue a case against an out- of-country defendant that is not a signatory to the Hague Treaty. Sai Baba lives in India. California does not have reciprocal jurisdiction rights against an out-of-country defendant and we cannot utilize California state subpoena powers against an out-of- country defendant not subject to the powers of the Hague Treaty without pursuing the Letters Rogatory process. That process takes several years to complete and there is no guarantee Sai Baba would even respond to service of a subpoena once a subpoena was served. Which complicates matters even more. And given Sai Baba's age, there is no guarantee he would even be alive at the time we finally could have perfected service of a complaint, let alone a deposition subpoena.”

Consequently, if Moreno has a problem with this then he would be best advised to take it up with the judge. Perhaps if he is extra-keen to put all these issues to rest once and for all in a court of law, he may make a stab at initiating the Letters Rogatory Process. Assuming that he has the qualifications to do so in the first place.


>> If Alaya Rahm wanted to sue Sathya Sai Baba for money he needed to do so in India, not the USA. The actions against Sathya Sai Baba, Goldstein and the Sathya Sai Baba Society were not dismissed due to a "technicality". To the contrary, to have sued the wrong defendents in the wrong court and in the wrong country is an absurdity. So absurd, in fact, that it is incredulous that Alaya Rahm ever really intended to follow through with the suit. It appears that Alaya's lawsuit was a publicity stunt at best, judicial harrassment at worst. <<

We can note here that this typical statement represents yet another change in Moreno's reasoning and arguments. After first boasting and bragging that he was in possession of the case information, here is a typical statement from him (May 3rd, 2006) where he cannot contain his excitement and smugness:

"And it is much more than 'out in the open'. It's 'out in the open', fully documented on PUBLIC court records. Ouch. It's going to hurt and this information is going to significantly impact the broadcasting and the publishing of articles against Sathya Sai Baba. You can't argue with a Self-Dissmal. Can't blame the judge. Can't blame the system. The blame invariably comes down to a lack of evidence and crediblity. This is a bitter pill that Anti-Sai Activists are going to have a hard time swallowing. The fact they have suppressed this information and are refusing to publish it on their sites and blogs is proof enough."

To make it clear, Moreno was clearly confident of himself one day before he had posted any information about the case. Putting aside the fact that we knew about the self-dismissal significantly earlier than he did, it is interesting to see Moreno boasting about how the information would "prove" that the case lacked evidence and credibility. He was clearly overjoyed that the case had gone through due legal process and had been "proved" ineffectual as far as Sai Baba is concerned.

Now, when it suits the fella, he turns around and complains that the case should not have occurred in the USA but in India! It is a mystery as to where he acquired this ideas, certainly not from us! It is merely a restatement of his colleagues' (Lisa De Witt's) constant urgings that the cases must be filed in India. Why? Does India enact laws that would allow Alaya Rahm to claim money damages from Sathya Sai Baba? They must do, if Moreno appears to be urging Alaya to do so! We can put aside the fact that would form yet another contradiction for Moreno given the fact that he has also been boasting along these lines:

"This case was dismissed 'with prejudice' and is binding under the international doctrine of res judicata. This means that Alaya Rahm can never file another lawsuit against Sathya Sai Baba (in the USA or in India) for the same claims made in this case."

What a turnaround for Moreno! From first boasting that the case had gone through due process in court and "failed", to claims that he should have done it properly in the first place! Oh dear, and combined with his constantly dithering opinion of Brelsford's "experience" and consequent expertise in lawful matters, I think that it would be safe to say that Moreno would never make it as a lawyer or any other type of legal representative. :-) Perhaps he should first practice getting his story straight before insisting that others should do the same. That is the best advice that anyone can give, and I'm no lawyer. :-)

It's time to wipe away the eggs dripping from your faces.

>> Keep spinning Sanjay. Apparently, all you can do is repeat the lies dispersed by the Rahms and JuST like a trained parrot with no proof to back them up. <<

I do not need to spin anything. The statement speaks for itself. :-)

Sai Baba's Naughty Children.

Geez.
Now you are changing your story and saying that John disappeared. So who disappeared, John or Walter? Make up your mind!

Yes, Kreydick's words are relevant and he believed in them enough to testify in court, unlike you who are hiding out on a message board!

Honesty results from a pure heart and pure thought. It is also related to the desireless state because in that state, there is no need to distort the truth in order to achieve or obtain anything.

Honesty and truth are a way of life, the only way. It means more than just what the words imply, because it also means being true to yourself. The purity of heart is visible when the love of God is reflected so clearly and strongly that it shines through, even in the most adverse conditions and circumstances. Such a man has reached a point where nothing can touch him because he has come so close to God that his whole life is based on the solid foundations of truth, love and devotion to God. How can anything touch such a man?

Edited by author 07-29-2006 11:46 AM
the other day, I was thinking of the English movie from the early 70s called "BLOWUP"

http://www.filmsite.org/blow.html


 Blow-Up (1966) is director Michelangelo Antonioni's view of the world of mod fashion, and an engaging, provocative murder mystery that examines the existential nature of reality through photography. Antonioni's first film in English, it quickly became one of the most important films of its decade, and a milestone in liberalized attitudes toward film nudity and expressions of sexuality. The film was nominated for two Academy Awards (with no wins): Best Director, and Best Original Screenplay (Edward Bond, Michelangelo Antonioni, and Tonino Guerra).
A desensitized-to-life, nihilistic, high-fashion photographer Thomas (David Hemmings) in London, who lives a mid-60s life of excess (riches, fame, and women), becomes bored with his lucrative career of glamour photography. So he resorts to photographing, in documentary style, the seamy and sordid side of life in London, in flophouses and slums.

Innocently, he takes candid photos in a deserted park of a lover's tryst-rendezvous between a kerchief-wearing woman (Vanessa Redgrave) and a middle-aged, gray-haired man in a light-gray suit. She pursues him to ask for the illicit photos, as he imagines that he has witnessed a scene of sexual intrigue - never thinking that he may have accidentally obtained visual, criminal evidence of a murder.

Memorable scenes:


- the suspenseful, obsessive sequence of the photographer processing and blowing up several pictures from his park visit, and magnifying them larger and larger to poster size. As tension heightens, he pins the pictures on the wall of his living room - in sequence - giving them life as if they were individual frames in a motion picture. Ultimately, they reveal a riveting possibility - a man and a gun in the shadows of some bushes behind a fence. He speculates that he foiled a potential murder - but further blow-ups reveal what could be a dead body.
============================


My own take on this film, stays with me all of my life, that he went to the London park to take photos with his model and when he develops this film, one shot shows what *could* be an image, hidden in the bushes, very dimly and obscurely, in the far far distance background, of a man with a gun : he reads of someone murdered in the park, this maybe he thinks that he has a photo of the killer.
    he then litterly blows up the image to get a clearer picture of whether this blur *is* a man with a gun, or whether the image is just of a bush or stick pile. The more he blows up the image to a larger size, the clearer it becomes that this image IS of a man with a gun.
     My own "take" on this movie is that the message of the film is that if someone has a faint perception that something might be real, then fuerther examination will not only prove this out, that *ALSO* the physical evidence will "compline", will also become actually physically
to become that object thought-of, "Occultly"!!

In plain words....as if you peered into the woods and thought that you see a deer, the stump will turn into a real deer!! BE a real deer.

I sense that the "JFK researchers", when they examine the photo evidence of the JKF assaination, there, in Dallas, are finding litterly more and more extra "guns and killers", in this same way!

In other words, "object" and "mind" are not separated.

Now add a very very "magiacian/guru" with "occult powers" to the mix, and then just see what happens!
---did Baba materialize vibuti, or was that merely a "trick"?!
---was someone killed by baba's orders. or was this not so?!

on and on....


from my blog.
http://freestone.blogspot.com/
[here is an article that i wrote, once, about a book that I read, a book that put the *Fear* into me, over what is Real or Not real!!

If you believe this book writer's experience, be afraid, be very very very afraid!!


======================================================== =============



The other day I was reminded of a book that I read over ten years ago.

I would say that what is in this book, I found to be the very " most scary" thing that I have ever read! This book, privately printed, never got to register on any radar, never got discussed in any new age forum, the "hydrogen bomb" contained in this book, exploded where no one ever heard it!

In my hometown of about 600 people, Interlaken, NY, there is a small public library, and it is very small indeed, perhaps the bookshelves take up all of a square 20 feet by 20 feet, the genealogy room is larger! This is in a town where they build one new house every ten years! I moved back there in the early 90s, and often went to this library.
One day, in the "occult" section, I found a book, this book was the *only* book in the occult section!
DUNDEE DREAMING by ??????
---a newspaper reporter from the [?]Dundee gazette newspaper had a column called "Dundee Dreaming". She collected the dreams of the people of Dundee, NY, a small city about 50 miles away from Interlaken. Then she would print them in the column, the dreams of Dundee. For years she ran this weekly column, and she asked the people of Dundee to submit their dreams. She had once lived in Elmira, NY, and thus in the 70s and 80s had also attended the Jane Roberts Seth Speaks classes.
This book was about this column and about the dreams of the people of that city.

the greatest Dream, was the 130 dreams that people mailed in to her about the man who was drowned in the sailing accident in Seneca lake. They all dreamed that a man drowned, in literal or symbolic language. Only thing was....That the Son of a Founding family was drowned weeks *AFTER* everyone dreamed this!!
[a collective premonitional dream, from over 100 people.]

*this* chapter, while amazing enough, is not the "bomb"! The utterly amazing event that I will write on, came from her own life, as this book is a bit "autobiographical"!

She had just come from one of the Lawyer meetings, her bad marriage had now just been Severed, the divorce was now Real. Stressed her to the max, the proceedings. She wanted to come to her uncle's farm, the childhood farm where she grew up on, for all of her years of childhood, so to heal and recover. She wanted to spend some hours in the barn attic where she spent SO many hours as a child, her 'safe spot", as her own parents lives were not so loving to each other. Her uncle now owned the farm, he just bought it.
She could hear him hammering away in the house as he did some fixing up on the old farmhouse, as she came up the stairs into the attic, unchanged since she was a girl, years ago. There *was* a change, though. The old nine pane window at the end of the attic now had four panes of glass in it, instead of the nine panes that it had when she was there, twenty years ago. She then sat where she always sat, nearly every day of the week that she could get there, as a child. She must have spent 15 years, five days a week, some bit of time in that room. There was only that one window. She now could see more, now that there were only four panes, as there were fewer window frames. She then came closer to the window. She then noticed that there was dust and dirt on the window sill and then on the putty at the bases of the four window panes.
"how *could* this be?" she asked herself! She was now in quite a bit of shock, as it seemed to be apparent that her uncle had never been to repair this window, that the panes have been there for years! After all, she looked out of this nine pane window for over ten years, nearly daily!
*REALLY* in a state of shock, when she asked her uncle about this, and she was told that he had not been up there.
a photo! She knew that there was a photo collection in some room in the house. Yes, the chest was still there and in it were several old albums of musty faded photos from her childhood, taken by her parents.

she found one with that attic in the background. There were four window panes in that window!

NOW....The "floor really did drop out from under her"!! How could this BE??

[be like, sports fans, like that year old white sports car you own, you get up to go to work and find that this white car has "miraculously" turned into a raspberry PINK!! You see by the dirt on the paint that it was not painted overnight! In fact you run to look at a photo taken months ago, only to see that this car has ALWAYS been pink!!]

she finally realized that the window REFLECTED her life, now that she has gotten this divorce from a marriage made when she was only 20 or so, she now had

A FAR WIDER VIEW ONTO LIFE

--and this window, so important to her growing soul, in childhood, reflected this!
More light, more freedom, more awareness. Four panes of glass; not nine.

Consider The Implications, sports fans!
--the outer "objective" world reflects your life inwardly, it changes as you change.
---many people might be able to change a "collective" reality, like of WAR or of EARTHCHANGES like of hurricanes or earthquakes.
---the weather that we have, might reflect the state of the souls of the people living under it!
--airplane contrails are "bad", thus they will make you sick in 20 seconds after
they appear in the sky, and that no doctor can deny the damaged body's symptoms!

this Dundee dreamer lady gave one more example, in this chapter! She had a friend
who took a photo with her camera, of her family, then she lost the camera before she was able to extract the film for development. She then moved five times and two of the moves were across country. Four to six years later she was one day hanging her wash on the clothesline and low and behold when she came out to the clothesline there was a camera hanging on the line. HER camera, as it had film in it and when developed, there were the pictures of her family that she took, still viewable after all those years!
?????
how?

the book is not listed in Google, long out of print, maybe if you were to go to the Home of the Rod Serling Twilight Zone, and visit the Library, you can check it out!
but my hometown of Interlaken, with its one room library *IS* the home of the twilight Zone, as 1955-1963 rod serling had his summer cottage there, a mile from Interlaken, on Cayuga lake: he wrote his scripts on the porch. He often was seen in town, and many of the stories used the town: "you cant go home again"...He revisited the town to walk it, the town was interlaken, I know where that carousel was!!

so ponder, if ye will, the Implications of that attic window!!

freestone

QT - Joe108 <qtopic+29-FE68KidtskS@quicktopic.com> wrote: --QT------------------------------------------------------------- Reply by email or visit
http://www.quicktopic.com/29/H/FE68KidtskS
--------------------------------------------------------------- -

Joe108 has created a new topic, "Alaya Rahm And His Failed
Lawsuit Against Sathya Sai Baba", linked from the topic "Sathya
Sai Baba, 2005, who is he?". To join the conversation, use your
browser to go to:


http://www.quicktopic.com/37/H/HwXgZASjUguv


thanks joe, i subscribed.
   
  freestone


seen on a bridge overpass, in Rochester, ny 1970
..."AND THE TRUTH WILL MAKE YOU LAUGH"!

Freestone Wilson
freestonew@yahoo.com
weblog....
http://freestone.blogspot.com

Sanjay Dadlani (aka, "Sai Baba Exposed") is totally ignorant about Alaya's court case and is basing his information on faulty information dispersed by the Rahm Family and JuST.

Sanjay has not refuted anything I have posted on my separate thread regarding this matter.

Regarding Sanjay's comment:

For example, it could easily be contested by expert psychologists who can readily explain why an abuse survivor can produce the sort of smiles that Kreydick describes of Alaya after the period in which he (Alaya) spoke of Sai Baba’s sexually abusing him many times.

It is amusing that Anti-Sai Activists claim that Kreydick's testimony "could easily be contested by expert psychologists". Notably, in pretrial discovery, Alaya Rahm claimed that he had suffered no psychological trauma that would have required medical or psychiatric care. Furthermore, Alaya identified no psychologist who had ever examined him! So it does not appear that there were any "expert psychologists" who were prepared to support or defend Alaya's position (scans coming soon).

Regarding Sanjay's comment:

"We were successful at the demurrer stage in establishing that a duty would be owed by the Society in the event they sponsored and/or endorsed the trips that Alaya went on when he was abused by Sai Baba. As it turns out, the Society is not the "hub" of all of Sai Baba's corporate activities. Rather, the Society, pursuant to declarations under penalty of perjury, confirmed they are a bookstore...nothing more. Accordingly, we do not have the necessary factual requirements to establish liability on the Society/Book center." - W. Brelsford, Alaya's attorney.

The Rahms (based on their own admission) were not novices to the Sai Organization. To the contrary, Al Rahm claimed three decades of membership, including holding important regional positions in the Sai Organization in the USA. If the Society was truly a "bookstore", Al Rahm would have known this. Brelsford accepted Alaya's case and pursued it for sixteen months. Surely an experienced trial lawyer would have been able to ascertain that the Society was a "bookstore" within a few days/weeks time. It obviously took Brelsford sixteen months to find this out even though the Rahms were fully familiar with the Sai Organization and the Society! The claim that lawsuit was dropped because the Society is a "bookstore" is an excuse, and a poor one at that. It took Brelsford 16 months to realize he did "not have the necessary factual requirements to establish liability on the Society/Book center"!

Regarding Sanjay's reference to:

"Among others ready to testify to the court was the former Mrs Diane Payne - USA. Hislop mentioned her in the letters he wanted kept secret that describe her having written to him alleging Sai Baba’s sexual abuse of her then teenage son in the 1970’s. Her child was then a student at Sai Baba’s College at Whitefield, near Bangalore. Again because important depositions were not able to be heard in court, Mark Roche, who formerly had long-term close ties with the most important leaders of the Sai Organization in the USA, was unable to testify. He appeared in the BBC television documentary ‘The Secret Swami’ (2004): In his BBC interview, Mr Roche spoke of Sai Baba’s forcing oral sex on him in 1976 when Roche was very young. He was also prepared to state under oath that he had told Sai Baba’s foremost overseas leader, Dr John Hislop, well before 1980, that Sai Baba had sexually abused him...Yet another strong witness standing by to verify these letters was Dr Timothy Conway, of Santa Barbara, USA, a former respected leader in the Sai Organization. It is a veracity which the Society’s directors could not, under oath (unless they perjured themselves) deny, for they were indeed among the recipients of these letters."

I have already responded to this in full. Diana Payne and Mark Roche were never identified to the court as witnesses on behalf of the plaintiff (Alaya Rahm). Attorney Brelsford would have had to identify Payne and Roche to the court as witnesses, so that either he (or the opposing attorney) could take depositions from them. In fact, no depositions (from any alleged witnesses) were taken on behalf of the plaintiff (Alaya Rahm). Nor were any alleged witnesses identified to the court on behalf of the plaintiff. How is it that a deposition was taken from Kreydick (on behalf of the defense), yet no depositions were taken on behalf of the plaintiff (Alaya Rahm)? Why is it that Diana Payne, Mark Roche and Timothy Conway were never identified to the court as witnesses by attorney Brelsford? Why is it that Payne, Roche and Conway failed to submit depositions on behalf of Alaya? Such being the case, the claim that "important depositions were not able to be heard in court" is a blatant distortion of the truth and amounts to nothing less than prevarication. Why doesn't Sanjay provide us with court documents to back up this lie from JuST? The records are now public record. Where are the depositions or references to Payne, Roche or Conway? I would like to see them.

Regarding Sanjay's comments:

What nobody says is that the deposition taken from Lewis Kreydick is exactly that, a deposition. It was simply "taken" from authorised law agents and was not heard in court according to my information. Consequently there is no question of Alaya/the Rahms refuting Kreydick's viewpoint because they had no opportunity to do so.

Kreydick's deposition was/is a sworn, signed, legal court record which was taken with Brelsford present and offering objections. This deposition was intended to be used in the court case that Alaya self-dismissed just prior to the trial being heard and not long after Kreydick's deposition was taken.

Regarding Sanjay's comments:

Very simply, the Sai "Organisation" is un-sueable and can practically get away with anything under the excuse that they are simply a bookstore.

Once again, the Rahms (based on their own admission) were not novices to the Sai Organization. To the contrary, Al Rahm claimed three decades of membership, including holding important regional positions. Certainly the Rahms were aware of the Sai Organization's structure and could name as defendants whomever they chose, and they did so. The Rahms also picked the jurisdiction and court that they filed in. Now, however, they claim they sued the wrong defendants in the wrong court and in the wrong country. No one can seriously rationalize that the Rahms (or their experienced trial lawyer) could have seriously believed that a USA court would have jurisdiction over Sathya Sai Baba as an individual defendant for events that were alleged to have occurred in India. If Alaya Rahm wanted to sue Sathya Sai Baba for money he needed to do so in India, not the USA. The actions against Sathya Sai Baba, Goldstein and the Sathya Sai Baba Society were not dismissed due to a "technicality". To the contrary, to have sued the wrong defendents in the wrong court and in the wrong country is an absurdity. So absurd, in fact, that it is incredulous that Alaya Rahm ever really intended to follow through with the suit. It appears that Alaya's lawsuit was a publicity stunt at best, judicial harrassment at worst.

Keep spinning Sanjay. Apparently, all you can do is repeat the lies dispersed by the Rahms and JuST like a trained parrot with no proof to back them up.

Exposing the SaiBabaExposed Author

Edited by author 07-28-2006 10:23 PM
Time to get a few facts right (re /m178):

>> The fact remains that Alaya Rahm had every opportunity to take his case to trial and testify that Kreydick lied or was being untruthful. He did not. Instead of challenging Kreydick in any way, Alaya chose voluntariy to self-dismiss his case against the Sathya Sai Baba Society with "prejudice". No one has shown that Kreydick was untruthful or anything he said was a lie. <<

Here is what is written in the Joint Statement by JuST and the Rahm Family (/m158):

"In the case Alaya Rahm brought against them, the directors presented a witness - Lewis Kreydick, a US citizen and staunch Sai devotee who often lives near Sai Baba. Kreydick is so obviously prejudiced in favor of Sai Baba that his mostly conjectural ‘testimony’ was without probity. For example, it could easily be contested by expert psychologists who can readily explain why an abuse survivor can produce the sort of smiles that Kreydick describes of Alaya after the period in which he (Alaya) spoke of Sai Baba’s sexually abusing him many times."

What nobody says is that the deposition taken from Lewis Kreydick is exactly that, a deposition. It was simply "taken" from authorised law agents and was not heard in court according to my information. Consequently there is no question of Alaya/the Rahms refuting Kreydick's viewpoint because they had no opportunity to do so.

The other thing that nobody says is that the case was self-dismissed. Joe108 would like to tell people that this self-dismissal is connected to the taking of Kreydick's deposition. It is not. The two events were pure coincidence and nothing else. To say otherwise is to knowingly submit DISINFORMATION. The real reason why the case was dismissed is as follows (/m158):

"We were successful at the demurrer stage in establishing that a duty would be owed by the Society in the event they sponsored and/or endorsed the trips that Alaya went on when he was abused by Sai Baba. As it turns out, the Society is not the "hub" of all of Sai Baba's corporate activities. Rather, the Society, pursuant to declarations under penalty of perjury, confirmed they are a bookstore...nothing more. Accordingly, we do not have the necessary factual requirements to establish liability on the Society/Book center." - W. Brelsford, Alaya's attorney.

Very simply, the Sai "Organisation" is un-sueable and can practically get away with anything under the excuse that they are simply a bookstore.


Kreydick?

Al Rahm: "...why would he [Alaya] mention anything to Kreydick, who Sai Baba himself once removed from the Rahms’ visiting group? Sai Baba told us that Kreydick was spreading stories about our family and that we should not associate with him any longer. Sai Baba later banned Kreydick from the Ashram."

That says it all. Sai Baba himself discredits his own defense witness. :-) Imagine if that was stated in court! :-D


>> It is also important to point out the following:
1) Not even one single affidavit was submitted on Alaya's behalf.
2) Not even one single deposition was taken on Alaya's behalf.
3) Not even one single witness was identified to the court on Alaya's behalf. <<

Right. And the truth of the matter (/m158):

"Among others ready to testify to the court was the former Mrs Diane Payne - USA. Hislop mentioned her in the letters he wanted kept secret that describe her having written to him alleging Sai Baba’s sexual abuse of her then teenage son in the 1970’s. Her child was then a student at Sai Baba’s College at Whitefield, near Bangalore. Again because important depositions were not able to be heard in court, Mark Roche, who formerly had long-term close ties with the most important leaders of the Sai Organization in the USA, was unable to testify. He appeared in the BBC television documentary ‘The Secret Swami’ (2004): In his BBC interview, Mr Roche spoke of Sai Baba’s forcing oral sex on him in 1976 when Roche was very young. He was also prepared to state under oath that he had told Sai Baba’s foremost overseas leader, Dr John Hislop, well before 1980, that Sai Baba had sexually abused him."

And..

"Yet another strong witness standing by to verify these letters was Dr Timothy Conway, of Santa Barbara, USA, a former respected leader in the Sai Organization. It is a veracity which the Society’s directors could not, under oath (unless they perjured themselves) deny, for they were indeed among the recipients of these letters."

There is no use in listening to the lies and disinformation put out by Sai Baba's groupies. To be a great Sai devotee, you have to learn to read between the lies.

Love fosters peace,
Peace nourishes truth,
Truth confers bliss and
Bliss is God.

The fact remains that Alaya Rahm had every opportunity to take his case to trial and testify that Kreydick lied or was being untruthful. He did not. Instead of challenging Kreydick in any way, Alaya chose voluntariy to self-dismiss his case against the Sathya Sai Baba Society with "prejudice". No one has shown that Kreydick was untruthful or anything he said was a lie. Instead, we have someone using a fake name (i.e., "Sage") who is making all sorts of claims anonymously and under the guise of a psudeonym. If anyone has anything to hide, it is "Sage".

It is also important to point out the following:
1) Not even one single affidavit was submitted on Alaya's behalf.
2) Not even one single deposition was taken on Alaya's behalf.
3) Not even one single witness was identified to the court on Alaya's behalf.

If anyone has been shown to be untruthful, it was Alaya. Putting aside Alaya's numerous contradictory testimonies, the Rahm Family never had the integrity to come forward and discuss Alaya's sexual promiscuity and his (admitted) decade-long daily use of illegal street drugs. All these years, the Rahm Family never divulged the fact that Alaya never saw a therapist for his alleged "sexual abuse trauma". Alaya admitted to the court that he suffered no mental or emotional trauma that would have warranted him seeing a therapist or doctor of any kind!

"Sage" can come in here making all sorts of claims against the Kreydick family but she/he cannot refute Kreydick's testimony one bit. Since "Sage" is obviously aware of Alaya's failed lawsuit, one would think that she/he would have come forward to defend Alaya when it really mattered, not after the fact and after Alaya self-dismissed his own lawsuit against the Sathya Sai Baba Society.

Click Here For A Full Response To The Rahm Family & JuST

"John was cremated quickly. Mary is buried in the Elmwook Park Cemetary Il. Walter had 9 siblings, these stories are legends...unsolved mysteries, told and retold... perhaps miscommunications over the generations."


*rolls eyes*

You're also probably Hedi

Would any subtantiated untruths in the video deposition be subject to U.S. prejury laws?

If you were part of the Kreydick family, Sage, then you should have Known Kreydick's father was living at Sai Baba's ashram until 1999 where he passed away. If you were really suspicious of foul play then you would have filed a missing person report so I find your claim VERY suspicious. What is also very suspicious is that you just happen to turn up here at the "perfect time" to cast your aspersions. Why, as a supposedly "irate" family member who claims to have knowledge of Kreydick's alleged mob connections, weren't you voicing your concerns to the police prior to this Sage? Why didn't you care to protect your own family members prior to this? Why now, almost a decade later, when it suits the anti-Sai agenda and you can hide behind an anonymous name? Whoever you are (probably Tony O'Clery), you better hope Kreydick doesn't sue you.

If proof comes from a liar and testimony from a theif, then perhaps justice will come from following the money rather then sex. What US citizen first paid to bring another US citizen Alaya to Baba?

LOl, Exposananda wants Tony to fill him on the details...

Edited by author 07-26-2006 08:09 PM
ermm,sage,could you be more specific ,please,what do you mean by associated?

Edited by author 07-25-2006 09:52 PM
Sage,

would you mind getting in touch with me by email please?

Regarding Alaya Rahm's Failed Lawsuit, a full response to critics has been posted at (with more scanned court records coming soon):
http://www.sai-fi.net/z-alaya-rahm.shtml
http://www.saisathyasai.com/Rahm-Public-Court-Records/

Edited by author 07-16-2006 10:01 PM
Alaya Rahm's Lawsuit vs Sathya Sai Society of America

- Joint Statement by the International JuST Group and the Rahm family



Date: July 16, 2006


At considerable personal sacrifice to himself and family, Alaya Rahm, 27, filed a civil lawsuit against California leaders of the Sathya Sai Society of America, who include the world chairman of Sathya Sai Baba’s organization, Dr Michael Goldstein. The case was heard by Judge John M. Watson of the Superior Court, County of Orange, California, on April 28th, 2006.

Substantive evidence was about to be called in court to support Alaya Rahm’s case, for which the Judge had allotted five weeks. However, his attorney, William Brelsford Esq., seeing formidable legal obstacles set by the defendants, and also working against a statute of limitations deadline, advised Alaya Rahm to self-dismiss the case. Along with other difficulties encountered, his attorney has explained, June 29th, 2006, to Alaya Rahm and his family:

“We were successful at the demurrer stage in establishing that a duty would be owed by the Society in the event they sponsored and/or endorsed the trips that Alaya went on when he was abused by Sai Baba. As it turns out, the Society is not the "hub" of all of Sai Baba's corporate activities. Rather, the Society, pursuant to declarations under penalty of perjury, confirmed they are a bookstore...nothing more. Accordingly, we do not have the necessary factual requirements to establish liability on the Society/Book center.”

No court found Alaya's allegations to be false. Simply, the suit could not continue on a technicality, and the claims of sexual abuse stand irrefutably true, just as before. The Sathya Sai Organization could take legal cover behind its bookstore. This is a very different situation to that being depicted in the systematic disinformation being spread throughout the Sai movement; for example, by those connected with its official international broadcast wing Radio Sai.

Among others ready to testify to the court was the former Mrs Diane Payne - USA. Hislop mentioned her in the letters he wanted kept secret that describe her having written to him alleging Sai Baba’s sexual abuse of her then teenage son in the 1970’s. Her child was then a student at Sai Baba’s College at Whitefield, near Bangalore. Again because important depositions were not able to be heard in court, Mark Roche, who formerly had long-term close ties with the most important leaders of the Sai Organization in the USA, was unable to testify. He appeared in the BBC television documentary ‘The Secret Swami’ (2004): In his BBC interview, Mr Roche spoke of Sai Baba’s forcing oral sex on him in 1976 when Roche was very young. He was also prepared to state under oath that he had told Sai Baba’s foremost overseas leader, Dr John Hislop, well before 1980, that Sai Baba had sexually abused him. These incidents occurred when Dr Hislop was the head of the Sai Organization in the USA. The Rahm family has stated:

"In the Hislop letters, the director Michael Goldstein was one of those called to consider the Payne sexual abuse matter. When our family met with Michael Goldstein in North-west Arkansas in September 1999 to confide in him the story of Alaya's abuse by Sai Baba, Michael Goldstein told us that he had never heard anything like this before. That was over twenty years after the Hislop letters, which we now know prove he was lying."

The Sathya Sai Organization has set itself up to avoid legal accountability and full public scrutiny. There is no legal entity in the United States against which a lawsuit demanding responsibility of Goldstein and other key directors of the Sathya Sai Society of America can be brought. The Organization’s leaders will not truly investigate or let the lower echelon leadership and the rank-and-file members know the nature and seriousness of the accusations against Sai Baba. These go well beyond sexual abuse of young males and include complicity in gigantic and wrongful deployment of funds garnered worldwide, and a cover-up of several killings in Sai Baba’s bedroom in June 6, 1993. The leaders will not even answer letters from complainants who have held high office in the Sai Organization, which have often been returned unopened. Such unaccountability and authoritarian secrecy is the Sai Organization leadership’s rigidly enforced rule. In the case Alaya Rahm brought against them, the directors presented a witness - Lewis Kreydick, a US citizen and staunch Sai devotee who often lives near Sai Baba. Kreydick is so obviously prejudiced in favor of Sai Baba that his mostly conjectural ‘testimony’ was without probity. For example, it could easily be contested by expert psychologists who can readily explain why an abuse survivor can produce the sort of smiles that Kreydick describes of Alaya after the period in which he (Alaya) spoke of Sai Baba’s sexually abusing him many times. Moreover, his parents have stated:

“Sai Baba also threatened Alaya repeatedly that if he ever told anyone what Swami was doing, Sai Baba would use his powers to cause an accident to Alaya and would also never talk to his parents again. Naturally, if Alaya couldn't tell his parents, why would he mention anything to Kreydick, who Sai Baba himself once removed from the Rahms’ visiting group? Sai Baba told us that Kreydick was spreading stories about our family and that we should not associate with him any longer. Sai Baba later banned Kreydick from the Ashram."

Compelling evidence could have been brought that Alaya’s case was but one of many cases of sexual abuse against citizens of the USA and other countries where Sai Baba is described as using threats and bribes. A number of sexual abuse professionals whom JuST has consulted have told us that emotional bribery and blackmail are common stratagems in the repertoire of sexual abusers. Such duress would be frightening enough for an adult, but what of mere boys in their teens!? What of those many who have been raised from birth as Sai devotees?

Because of the legalistic stumbling blocks, compelling testimony could not be presented. For example, evidence of:

    · dereliction of duty of care by leaders of the Sathya Sai Organization

    · from other families and individuals who allege sexual abuse by Sathya Sai Baba

What is more, hostile ploys in court by the Society’s lawyers and Lewis Kreydick to cast Alaya and Marisa Rahm (his mother) in a false, negative light have, most unjustly, remained undefended because of the sudden termination of the case.

Leading office-bearers who have attempted to expose the truth are always closed out of the Sathya Sai Organization. Therefore, lower echelon and rank-and-file members cannot deliberate on the facts. Sai Baba has lied about former devotees who now expose him, and his leaders know that. He has called them “Judases”, “demons", and has falsely and without giving a shred of evidence accused them of opposing him for money. When the Rahms took their story to Dr Goldstein, in September 1999, he was, they say, shocked and shaken, telling them, "Faith has got to be restored and words will not be enough." Promising to speak to Sai Baba, Goldstein asked the Rahms to keep the matter secret in the meantime. On his return, Goldstein said that Sai Baba replied, "Swami is pure" and "If you want to fight with people in the gutter, you also have to go into the gutter. Don't."

But the Rahms are not gutter people. Nor were they fighting. Goldstein and the leaders of the Sathya Sai Organization have breached the time-honored ethic in investigation of serious allegations that one does not rely, alone, on the word of an accused perpetrator. What indeed might a law case, allowed to run its course, reveal about this Organization?

It seems impossible to approach Sai Baba legally from abroad - not to mention the obstacles to bringing him to justice within India itself, where Supreme and High Court judges, government ministers and power brokers from many sections of Indian society are his devotees. Continuous efforts are made by the Sathya Sai Organization to cover up for its founder and to protect its own name. In regard to attempts to pursue Sathya Sai Baba by some means from outside India, William Brelsford (Alaya Rahm’s attorney) has explained:

“The lawsuit against Sai Baba (individually) was dropped because the judge indicated in the initial court appearance that he did not wish to see us pursue a case against an out- of-country defendant that is not a signatory to the Hague Treaty. Sai Baba lives in India. California does not have reciprocal jurisdiction rights against an out-of-country defendant and we cannot utilize California state subpoena powers against an out-of- country defendant not subject to the powers of the Hague Treaty without pursuing the Letters Rogatory process. That process takes several years to complete and there is no guarantee Sai Baba would even respond to service of a subpoena once a subpoena was served. Which complicates matters even more. And given Sai Baba's age, there is no guarantee he would even be alive at the time we finally could have perfected service of a complaint, let alone a deposition subpoena.”

Where they can, cults typically head off law cases on the basis of legal technicality. Sai Baba’s organization dares not face public examination. In countries in all the Sai Organization ‘regions’, its prominent leaders were instructed to ensure the Organization was not registered in a way that would render it legally or financially liable. One point which exemplifies this policy is seen in The Sathya Sai Organization Charter Section (E) CENTRES (6) Rules and Regulations: “The Centre/Group will not ordinarily be registered under the local law relating to registration of societies, if such registration is not mandatory.” (p.24).

In the late 1980s, overseas Sai Organizations and their Centers were instructed not to own or buy any property in the name of the Organization, but where necessary to let or borrow premises. The only properties and assets were to be in India, in the name of the Sathya Sai Central Trust, whose overall authority rests in Sai Baba himself!

The executives, research and legal staffs of major organizations have accepted the credibility of many witnesses from the USA and countries around the world (including those with sworn affidavits) who accuse Sathya Sai Baba of male sexual abuse over many years. These bodies include UNESCO (Paris), the US State Department, the BBC (“The Secret Swami”), AZUL TV (Argentina, “Zona de Investigación”), DR (Danish Broadcasting, “Seduced” - re-titled as “Seduced By Sai Baba” by Australia’s SBS - which, like DR, withstood Sai Organization threats to sue), and ABC Radio (Australia). Print media have likewise have accepted the credibility of former devotees and rejected Sai Organization attempts to kill the stories – e.g., India Today, The Times of London, The Daily Telegraph, Salon.com, and many other newspapers in Scandinavia, Europe, Canada, and Australia.

The Sathya Sai Organization – which, like Sai Baba, claims to uphold the truth - continually bluffs with its threats but quickly retreats when a corporation stands up to it, like the BBC, Danish broadcaster DR, Canada's CBC, Australia's SBS, India Today, and others. (Click here for example1 and example 2).

Those who know Alaya and his family are satisfied that they have told the truth. Indeed, the penalty for lying to a court in the USA, a legal system which Alaya Rahm was every bit prepared to face, is severe! The Society - or, to call things by their right name, the Sathya Sai Organization - did not and dares not face the challenge of a public examination of the case. Except, of course, in situations where it is forced into damage control.

Al Rahm says: “Alaya was seriously sexually abused by Sai Baba, who expected him to sustain a game of lies”.

Compelling accounts of individuals from many countries and investigative documentation by former devotees and some of the world’s leading media attest that Sai Baba has sexually molested boys and young men for over 30 years. Indeed, much of the international testimony, including sworn statements, could not be aired within obvious broadcast or print media limitations. Claims that these media are ‘sensationalistic’ are grossly untrue. These have been made by Sai Organization heads like Indulal Shah (formerly world head of the Organization), Dr. G. Venkataraman (Deputy Chairman of the ruling world body ‘The Prashanti Council’ chaired by Dr. Michael Goldstein and head of Radio Sai, the official international radio broadcaster) and other prominent Sai Baba apologists. As early as 1980, Dr John Hislop gathered Goldstein and the other directors to discuss the allegations by devotees. At that time as well, he accused an innocent mother and her abused teenage son of lying. Because of the technicality that closed the case, this is but one of the vital issues that it was not possible to air in court. Alaya Rahm’s attorney would have been able to demonstrate, under witness oath, that the Hislop letters - very damaging to the Sai Organization - are fully verifiable. Yet another strong witness standing by to verify these letters was Dr Timothy Conway, of Santa Barbara, USA, a former respected leader in the Sai Organization. It is a veracity which the Society’s directors could not, under oath (unless they perjured themselves) deny, for they were indeed among the recipients of these letters.

Al Rahm states: “The leaders covered up then and are covering up now. Dr Goldstein Dr William Harvey, Berniece Mead, Robert Bozzani and their attorneys are fully aware of the seriousness of the many sexual abuse allegations”.

On the Internet and elsewhere, some persons - who dare not stand forth as Alaya and other Sai Baba abuse survivors have done - dishonestly set about trying to discredit people who were much respected when Sai devotees. Alaya Rahm’s father, Al, for example, was one of five regional officers in ‘Region 10’ of the Sathya Sai Baba Organization of the United States. He and his family received over fifty interviews (combined) with Sai Baba. On several occasions, they performed music and sang in the Puttaparthi Mandir, which is the foremost temple for millions of Sai Baba’s followers, and have also performed in official Sai Centers throughout the USA, and in those of many countries. He started the first Sai School in the United States at the personal direction of Sai Baba during interviews that took place in 1997. This is a 501c3 non-profit institution named the School of Human Values of which Berniece Mead (mentioned above) was one of the officers. Al Rahm has told JuST that, when he:

“… called the officers to discuss the newly found sexual abuse information of Alaya Rahm, Berniece chose to resign instead of attend the meeting and face up to the allegations saying, ‘It’s always about something sexual’. Is this the kind of care that the head of the Sathya Sai Baba Organization’s children’s division (called “Education in Human Values” or “EHV”) should have?”

It most assuredly is not, and this typical case of dereliction of duty of care among Sai Baba’s foremost leaders should concern the wider public too which is the target of the Sai Organization, with its multi-million dollar project setting up schools in different countries. With its EHV program it seeks to get into the schools of the world but without disclosing its Sai Baba-oriented agenda - the guru who says that he will rule the world before AD 2022.

That Alaya Rahm withdrew his case reflects on certain Sathya Sai Organization leaders and their bad faith, not on him. Rather, he and his very supportive family who sacrificed so much through many years for Sai Baba and his Organization have had the courage, in the hope of saving other children from sexual abuse, to come forward in a United States court of law and to redouble their efforts to let the public know the truth.

 

Link to: The International JuST Group

Many people incl fake godmen miss one important feature of God and the universe(nature) that is supposedly created by him.

God can do *anything* when he is outside the nature. However fake godmen know the first half(God can do *anything*) and doesn't know the second(when he is outside the nature). Now that they incorrectly believe that "God can do *anything* even when he is inside the nature", they start claiming things that are naturally impossible. They don't know that God will not do anything naturally impossible things when he is inside the nature(Btw, when he is inside the nature he is no more God, hence I am skeptic of any godman).

God created nature with a set of laws. No one can break them. Breaking the natural laws will break the system. Hence God wdn't do it. I would even say he can't even do it more than once(after first time the nature breaks, hence no chance for the second attempt). It doesn't reflect his capability but it is due to the incapability of the nature itself. You can't make Helium out of Hydrogen without releasing a huge amount of energy. Sitting on earth, you can't make Gold out of "nothing".

Godmen can be very wise, knowledgeable, skillful, intelligent, and can inspire and influence people. They can do magic tricks, can cause temporary illusions but can not make Gold out of "nothing". Even God can not do that the second time. SB may have created this universe but he *can not* create Gold out of "nothing".

I welcome your comments.

.BM

abused for15years (AF-15),

I am not talking about philosophical. Later on, I learnt that the official SB claim is that the materializations are creation of objects from "nowhere". It is a blatent lie and is very easy to prove, I bet.

I am given to understand that there is no strong evidence of Sai Baba(SB)'s molestation(no pictures, no video, no audio, no sperm deposits etc.). The law and order in India is not good enough to bring justice based on first hand reports(I am sure you know what I mean). To face a big guy like SB we need a smoking gun. We need some spy work like bugs, miniature digital recorder etc and some training as well. But I doubt if SB in his old age is still continuing his abuses.

I am a skeptic of any Godman. I doubt Sai Baba(SB)'s materializations as well. The easiest thing to do is- capture videos of his materializations along with speaches in the same session. The video should be good enough to reveal his magician's work. We can file a public interest case stating that SB is cheating/misleading people at large.

Another type of case could be a small group of people should go to court for damages. They can complain that they were attracted to SB on the basis of marterilaizations and followed a misinterpreted, corrupted religious philosophy. Now that they come to know that materializations are fake they want justice for the damage done. SB has to prove his demonstrations to win this case. SB *can not* materialize. He is a 2nd rate magician at best. That is a good case with a smoking gun.

I agree; a lot of money is needed to fight a legal battle with SB.

You have my sympathy for being abused and my admiration for your bravery to speak up!

.BM

hi
  i hope u are not bringing in the philosophical meaning for golden egg etc.i know it is a part of kundalini yoga and it is known to Sabibaba.he is using it to fool people.that is his strength. he is too smart and his business started very early . now it is difficult to dislodge his evil empire.
QT - Beast Master <qtopic+29-FE68KidtskS@quicktopic.com> wrote:


     
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< replied-to message removed by QT >

SBE,

You said, "It may be widespread and it may be carried out even today, but that doesn't disprove my basic point that incest is morally abhorrent and as such, Sai Baba should have been more choosy about which family to take birth in. Avatars supposedly retain such exclusive rights."

May be I am not communicating well.

1. Such marriages are *not incest*.
2. Moral: it is customary. The marriage is conducted in the same fashion as in any other marriage. There is no more degradtion of values (lust, seduction, suppression etc) than any other marriages. It is customary, no queation of morals come into this. I am not supporting or oppsoing this. I am just stating the fact. This is an age old custom in AP.

As for why SB chose this family to born in, I have no comment. This doesn't make AP Hindu's incest. By no standards we can evaluate thier parents to be better or worse to take birth in. What are the rules? Which marriage relation is superior to another? What is the criteria for a Godman to be borned to amfamily? Devotees don't see the differentiation in their marriage(they are more informed than you in this area!).

Well, back to the point- AP people are respectful, loving, peaceful, decent, traditional, care for good family, future looking, progressive. Don't call our forefathers marriages incest.

While I wait to hear from SBE on his incest claim, I want to talk with others about materializations performed by Sai Baba(SB). Is it a complete mystery or do you know any details about it?

1. Some basic questions. What is your definition of 'materialization'? Where does the material created come from(is it within the law of matter/energy conservation?)? For example the golden egg. Was it made in a gold shop? How about the watches? Do they have manufacturer's markings on them? How about the workmanship? Do they wear and tear?

2. Why does SB do it? Is it to demonstrate his Godman status? Is it to reward the devotees? How is it different from a magician's work?(Have you watched David Copperfield's show)

3. What do you understand from these materialization? How does this act impact your level of belief in SB? Would you believe to the same extent if SB wouldn't perform the materializations?

.BM

SBE,

Your blog is inconvenient to me. So, let's talk here.

I am asking you to give this a serious thought(don't call me cute). Until we conclude our discussion I request you to remove your incest claims from your blog. Your incest claim goes well for all Hindus of AP state.

Now, have you researched the Hindu marriage practice in Andhra Pradesh? Do you acknowledge that it is well practiced custom in AP state?

Beast master, I find your enthusiasm rather cute but I'd really appreciate it if you'd stick to one place for discussions on this subject. You are already carrying on this discussion here and here so I'd really like it if we could stick to one arena. I don't mind talking in several different places but then I enjoy the luxury of having different types of discussions in different places, and I'm sure you can understand how tiring it might be to repeat the same points in more than one arena.

Hope you understand the problem and will stick to the original arena. Feel free to repost your points here to there if you like.

SBE,

In your blog you said, "I still find it incredibly absurd that incest is justified as "normal" and so forth."

You committed 2 errors in one sentence!

1. Begging the question (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_argument)
2. Argumentum ad ignorantiam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance)

First, you assume it is incest. Second, you can't take the fact due to your lack of knowledge.

Why don't you research before committing more errors?

.BM

SBE,

You said, "..I have nothing more to add except to say that I firmly disagree with your conention that such marriages are "normal practice.."

Tell me how did you come to the conclusion of firm disagreement.

It is a simple fact that it is a popular Hindu marriage practice in AP state. Give us some business(I won't guarantee it will entertain you:-), watch this 2005-06 movie- http://www.khojhyderabad.com/Ent/Movies/Display.asp?q=859&H=2

Hero-Heroine relationship in this movie is #2 from my list(2. father's sister's daughter).

SBE,

You said, "So which definition listed above do you think describes sex as we know it?"

Depends on the context. From your list, #1 as in "what is your sex?". #5 as in "SB attempted to have sex with AR".

Per Hindu marriage practice in Andhra Pradesh, the following marriages are *not forbidden*.

A man with his-

1. sister's daughter
2. father's sister's daughter
3. mother's brother's daughter

The following marriages are *forbidden*.

A man with his-

4. sister
5. mother
6. daughter
7. brother's daughter
8. father's brother's daughter
9. mother's sister's daughter
10. mother's sister

You fail to observe the distinction between 1-3 and 4-10. In my part of the world, 1-3 are *not incest*. 4-10 are *incest*.

.BM

Edited by author 07-03-2006 09:09 PM
Just for reference, here is the response to Beast-Master's other points as registered here:

If you want to define everything with a dictionary, I suppose you'll agree that sex (for example) is nothing more than:

1. The property or quality by which organisms are classified as female or male on the basis of their reproductive organs and functions.
2. Either of the two divisions, designated female and male, of this classification.
2. Females or males considered as a group.
3. The condition or character of being female or male; the physiological, functional, and psychological differences that distinguish the female and the male. See Usage Note at gender.
4. The sexual urge or instinct as it manifests itself in behavior.
5. Sexual intercourse.
6. The genitals.

So which definition listed above do you think describes sex as we know it?

Similarly I am not concerned with the legality of the parents' marriage and nor am I concered with what were the "proper" practices, it is an undeniable fact that incest is morally abhorrent.

By the way, what do you mean that cousin-marriage is not forbidden by Hindu religious practice? Perhaps you are not familiar with the Manu-smriti (Laws of Manu) that states, among other things:

"He who has approached the daughter of his father's sister, (who is almost equal to) a sister, (the daughter) of his mother's sister, or of his mother's full brother, shall perform a lunar penance. A wise man should not take as his wife any of these three; they must not be wedded because they are (Sapinda-) relatives, he who marries (one of them), sinks low." - Manu-smriti 11.172-173

Pedda Venkappa Raju indeed went against Hindu religious practice by violating the above Law of Manu. He approached (let's not get technical here) Easwaramma who was the daughter of his father's sister.

By the way, how about the fact that Venkamma (Baba's sister) married her uncle, Easwaramma's brother?

As I've already answered the majority of your point here, I have nothing more to add except to say that I firmly disagree with your conention that such marriages are "normal practice".

It may be widespread and it may be carried out even today, but that doesn't disprove my basic point that incest is morally abhorrent and as such, Sai Baba should have been more choosy about which family to take birth in. Avatars supposedly retain such exclusive rights.

As for last names and so on, you're very welcome to explain your points there.

Sai Baba EXPOSED,

1. Sai Baba was borned to Pedda Venkamma(ppa ??) Raju (father) and Eswaramma (mother)

2. Pedda Venkamma Raju was borned to Kondamma Raju(father) and Lakshamma(mother)

3. Eswaramma was borned to Meesaraganda Subba Raju(father) and Venkata Subbamma(mother)

4. Kondamma Raju(male) and Venkata Subbamma(female) are siblings(brother and sister).

Validity by close relation: By local customs the marriage of Pedda Venkamma Raju and Eswaramma is not only valid but it is a *very common* practice.
Age: Given the year(old India) of the marriage though I am not sure of the legality, I am very sure it is not uncommon.

Run this by some folks who lived in Andhra Pradesh before respodning to me. I can see that you don't know the "last name" nomanclature of Andhra Pradesh. "Raju" indicates caste but not the "last name". Naming is a little tricky in Andhra Pradesh.

I am afraid you should research this and remove the incest claim immediately from your blog, to save your credibility.

hi all from freestone the moderator.

well I found that video upload site the
http://www.youtube.com

and I did a search for baba videos that were made by interested parties.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search=sai+..._type=search_videos

there are a bunch, maybe about 20 or so of them!
There are several made by visitors and devotees where jewlery and vibuti
were "manifested" by baba.
then there are videos that slightly lampoon him, a video made by a class project, several 10 minute videos of baba presentations.

all good Fodder for research, or just to take a look at baba!

http://www.flickr.com
has many pictures uploaded and thus one can do a search for "sathya sai baba" or "sai baba" to find yet MORE baba stuff!

have fun.

post here any Findings or insights, from these videos or pictures!



freestone

Edited by author 06-27-2006 04:25 PM
You said it. Most of the critics of Sathya Sai only present thousands of cool facts, not demonisations such as you now blatantly admit you do! Your presence everywhere you post shows that you are about the lowest kind of mentality to be found on the web. Congratulations, every sentence you write exposes you as a defamer, demoniser, person without facts or reason. Just keep on going, you seem unable not to condemn yourself with every posting. It is highly amusing to see. You do not recognise the right of anonymity on the internet when it is to protect against demonisers like you claim to be! If anonymous posters are cowardly, then millions are cowards. But you tried to hide your identity for ages, but I note that you were found out - I saw that on Yahoo sathyasaibaba2 group!

It looks pretty obvious to me (and everyone else) who's temper tantrums are increasing. :-)

We "demonise" the critics who "demonise" Sai Baba because they LIE, LIE, LIE and REFUSE to correct their disinformation. They know they cannot win without lying and manipulating the truth.
They are the ones doing sleight of hand with the facts as ALL are becoming increasingly aware.

Their temper tantrums are increasing.

The anti-Sais can't even keep their stories straight! So Sanjay makes Tony out to be a liar by saying the Doordarshan video did make it to tv. And if someone "smuggled" the Doordarshan video out of the Doordarshan Studio, that's called stealing so did Premanand receive stolen property? Do the anti-Sais EVER analyze and ask "rational" questions about WHAT they are reading? Doesn't look like it.

What the BBC brought to light is how awful their reporting is. Now that Alaya Rahm proved what a liar he is (not ONE witness showed up to back his claims even though he, his family, and the anti-Sais claimed they had scores of witnesses...there were 40 complainants listed on their filing!), the BBC is left with egg on their face and who knows, maybe now someone will sue them since the anti-Sais won't shut up are still using the poorly-researched piece of garbage to further their hate campaign.

Make up your mind, ex-premie. One minute you say I am hiding. The next you say I am trying to make a name. All my facts regarding the lies and criminal behavior of the anti-Sais are documented on the internet for those who are honest enough to look at them. The anti-Sais cannot even make it into a court room, which is what I predicted over the last few years and is also WELL-DOCUMENTED on the internet. You, on the other hand are full of hot air (and a coward to boot) and that is why you have to hide behind a phony user name. Several of the people smearing Prem Rawat have criminal histories too so that doesn't surprise me although you sound just like Reinier van der Sandt or one of his criminally-minded friends. The only thing people like you seem to be good at is harassing people, I'll give you that. That's why so many of you end up in jail in the end.

Edited by author 06-11-2006 09:53 PM
Sai Baba: Demonising The Critics - See this article to see a complete list of Sai Baba's repulsive and contradictory behaviour against his critics. For a so-called embodiment of love, he sure has a few gripes against people who pullaway his robe and expose him for the fraud that he is. See how he calls his critics 'Judases', 'cawing crows', alleges bribery, and much more false and unfounded accusations.

On the other hand, I do agree that my recent "incest" article was a nice try; it has produced a host of successive articles:

Sai Baba: Incestuous Reflections

Kasturi's Incestuous Revisionism

Far From The Incestuous Crowd

:-)

And many more earth-shaking revelations to be revealed. Tough luck, Mr. Judas, the Gospel of Judas has not been universally recognised as authentic. :-) What does Jesus have to do with this anyway? Are you contending that our recent revelations have no basis in truth, despite being recorded in official devotional literature? Careful. ;-)

Hmm...so as per the Gospel of Judas, Jesus told Judas to betray him.
What do you think about this, Mr Exposed? Nice try...Judas eh?

Edited by author 06-07-2006 12:01 AM
I wasn't joking.

Sai Baba: Born Of Incest - find out all about Sai Baba's mysterious parentage with revealing new information.

And while it's still "Antichrist Day", let's revisit my views on the possibility of Sai Baba being the Antichrist:

Sai Baba: Antichrist Superstar!

Re /m129: It's nice to hear a direct message from Prashanti Nilayam admitting how they were virtually brought to their knees thanks to the BBC documentary. They'd like to label the BBC - aworld-renowned broadcaster - as "unscrupulous" just because the BBC has an opinion of it's own.

What they fail to get into their thick heads is that the BBC documentary (and the Sai Expose in general) does not only consist of sexual abuse allegations, but that the Expose is multifarious and works on all angles.

The BBC documentary brought to light the fact (among many others) that Sai Baba's involvement in murders have NOT been forgotten. In case anyone forgot, as well as yesterday being "Antichrist Day" it was also the THIRTEENTH anniversary of the 1993 murders. How's that for a bunch of apples?

And now we have the scandalous revelation that Sai Baba is an inbred messiah. Tsk, it just gets worse and worse for the devoted minions.

Edited by author 06-05-2006 11:11 PM
Re /m130: "And by the sound of things, the tape was so lousy in quality it could not be used for broadcast and that is WHY it never made it to t.v."

Whatta lie!

The whole point about this movie is that it was broadcast on Doordarshan, which is a government-sponsored channel (sort of like the BBC) and not your average tabloid channel. In India, if something comes on Doordarshan then it comes with some form of authority.

Secondly, of course it made it to TV! Not just Indian TV but British TV too! The very name 'Guru Busters' comes from an episode of Equinox on Channel 4 (UK Broadcasting station), from an episode entitled 'Guru Busters'. I have a copy of this whole documentary on VHS cassette. The documentary discussed other fake gurus apart from Sai Baba too.

This is what happens when you open your mouth and rubbish spews forth from it. Your speech becomes incoherent and you start frothing at the mouth with lies.

Miracele or siddhis mean nothing. Sri Ramakrishna Parmahamsa said they were 'rubbish'...Tony

Why does sb say that his mother still visits him, in her astral body, when he also says she merged with him and got Moksha?...Contradictory yes!...Tony

There is absolutely NO proof the video was confiscated as Tony the "true believer" in all things negative claims. The only ones claiming this are the biased rationalists. In fact, it was Premanand who claimed his copy "supernaturally disappeared," NOT Doordarshan! No one from Doordarshan has backed up this silly claim. If the tape was "confiscated" how was it that both the skeptics AND Haraldsson were able to get a copy of it to analyze? And by the sound of things, the tape was so lousy in quality it could not be used for broadcast and that is WHY it never made it to t.v.

********

The GuruBusters film also discussed a video that allegedly captured Sathya Sai Baba producing a gold necklace by sleight of hand. Sanal Edamaruku (a self-professed atheist and rationalist) said about this video: "In November 1994 during the celebration of his 69th birthday, he was caught red-handed when he 'materialized' a golden chain, a cameraman of the national TV (Doordarshan) filmed the scene and revealed -just by chance- the secret: a close-up shows him plucking the chain from the bottom of a plaque, where it has been fixed before. Sai Baba was powerful enough to get the film clipping confiscated before it could be broadcasted, but copies of the cassette, smuggled out from the Doordarshan studios, were circulated all over India and abroad In Guru Busters, Channel IV's famous documentary by Robert Eagle about the work of Indian Rationalists, which has meantime been broadcasted in twelve countries, the clipping is reproduced in slow motion, proving the case beyond doubts. Sai Baba's reputation suffered serious damage."

The only problem with all these claims, about Sathya Sai Baba being filmed faking a materialization, is that Erlendur Haraldsson (author of Modern Miracles) stated that he and his associates carried out a careful analysis of the video shown in the Guru Busters film. Haraldsson stated the following about the video: "The quality and resolution of the tape leaves much to be desired and limits the inferences that can be drawn from it. Dr. Wiseman took the videotape to a company which specialises in investigating corporate fraud. This company posesses some of the world's best equipment designed to enhance poor quality videotape. The technician kindly offered to enhance the videotape in question. The videotape was run through a real time Snell & Wilcox Kudos Noise Reducer. The machine carries out three operations. First, it removes via recursive filters the random noise on the tape caused by repeated copying. Second, it imporves the graininess of the video by median filters and finally enhances any edges on the the video through edge enhancement filters. After all this the video is certainly easier to watch, and did not contain much of the random noise present on the copy provided by the Deccan Chronicle. However, the resulting tape still did not reveal further information about the incident. In short, the reason for Sai Baba's hand movements still appears unclear and is open for various interpretations, but the tape contained no firm evidence of fraud. The company also analysed several still frames taken from the video. These were scanned into a computer and run through an Improve image processing system (developed by the Home Office in Britain). Again, the images were enhanced via median filters and certain areas of the frames were enlarged. The resulting photographs show the crucial moment as Sai Baba's hands touch under the memento, but do not reveal any further information." Therefore, all these claims about Sathya Sai Baba clearly resorting to trickery, to manifest the necklace, are patently false.

http://www.saisathyasai.com/baba/guru-bust...ry-gurubusters.html

Here is an important news.

As you are aware, for quite some time now, totally unfounded, despicable, pernicious and absolutely false rumours have been circulating about our Beloved Swami. Not only have these rumours been spread through e-mails and the internet, but some unscrupulous TV channels have enough gone so far as to fabricate so-called documentaries and aired them in many countries.

Over the years, we have received from devotees across the world, many e-mails and letters expressing deep distress and anguish. In respect of spreading falsehood, the notorious BBC documentary appears to have hurt most.

We now have some very good news for all devotees, especially for those who for years have been suffering the pain of seeing all these rumours and false allegations being eagerly lapped up by the gullible.

The news is this:

The young man who made most of these allegations against Swami and who was the star accuser in the malicious and vicious BBC documentary, filed a case in California in January, 2005.

The case was set for hearing on April 28 th, 2006.

During the handling of the lawsuit, witnesses were identified and interviewed, who were present in Prashanti Nilayam, when the molestations alleged by the plaintiff were supposed to have taken place.

One of the witnesses, Mr. Kreydick was examined by lawyers and the proceedings were recorded on video tape. This happened on March 16 th, 2006 . Subsequently, the video deposition was made into a typed deposition, which Mr. Kreydick signed on April 7 th, 2006 . He also issued a personal statement to the effect that although he originally believed in the allegations made against Sai Baba, he later discovered that there were many critical discrepancies and contradictions in the allegations made by the plaintiff and the anti-Sai community in general. His said that all these allegations had a hidden bias. He therefore retracted his earlier position in support of the allegations.

This marked the turning point. The young man who filed the complaint then dismissed his own lawsuit on April 19 th, 2006.

The case was then dismissed with prejudice. It means no damages to the plaintiff, and that the case can never be filed again in any court in America or in India.

Yes, dear Subscriber! Truth always triumphs!!

Please spread the good news to all you know and do everything you can so that Sai devotees everywhere hear this news immediately and rejoice.

The message that has come out, loud and clear is that TRUTH ALWAYS TRIUMPHS, though it takes its own sweet time to do so.

Soon, Radio Sai and H2H will bring to you a special feature giving you all the details of this glorious triumph.

Meanwhile, rejoice.

Once again, we request that you share this good news with as many as you can.

Let it spread like wild fire, burning away all the residual doubts and misgivings.

Thank you and JAI SAI RAM

Just look at Sanjay Dadlani's past and present blogs and postings and see who is the super-hypocritical, fanatical king of ad hominem attacks. Really pathetic to watch a pervert like him whine about other peoples behavior when he ought to be in jail in light of so many of his criminal confessions of downloading child porn and buying illegal drugs on the street. And then there is his misogynistic blog in which he posted pics of women he stalked and put disgusting captions like, "They want it" and other perverted sexual drivel.

This is the problem with the anti-Sai bandits who fail to take responsibilty for their own continued hypocrisy and think they have a license to harass everyone who disagrees with their "worldview" as Dadlani the wannabe intellectual calls it. If you don't like my "worldview" keep your nose out of it bozo! If you weren't so nosy you wouldn't have an ulcer over your obsession for sticking your big nose into everyone elses business.

Unfortunately for you, my worldview is consistent with the view of the legal authorities and video EXPERTS (of which you are NOT) and YOURS isn't, coward. And until you bozos face the hard realities of those facts you will continue to live in your delusional little worlds whining like the cowards you are.

Edited by author 06-03-2006 07:59 PM
Erlendur Haraldsson? Oh yes, I remember him. He knows quite a bit about Sai Baba's relationships with male devotees back in the 1940s/1950s that he never published in his book. :-)

Haraldsson also investigated the ressurrection of Walter Cowan and found the truth to be extraordinarily different from the official version. :-) I wonder what Sai Baba's devotees think of the fact that he unearthed curious information about Sai Baba: Sai apparently had a whole family of scorpions living in his hair at one time. :-)

His published academic paper into Sai Baba's miracles (with Karlis Osis) was published in a psychological journal. According to the abstract, the investigation concludes something that devotees will find unexpected. :-) Unfortunately the database appears to be down right now so I cannot find it, it should be back up by Monday.

Re /m120: Sorry pal, looks like Lisa will continue her overemotional fanaticism and denials as well as her abusive and vituperative behaviour. History has shown that she has never contributed sensibly and rationally to any sort of discussion except to overlace her speeches with ad-hominem attacks and threats. We see the same type of mentality: Because she doesn't think that the movies show Sai Baba's fraud, everyone else who disagrees with her point of view are liars. *shakes head*

Edited by author 06-03-2006 06:26 PM
Re /m123: This is the whole problem with the mentality of Sai Baba's devotees; they insist that everything should fit in nicely with their worldview otherwise it is to be rejected. This is not compatible with even the most basic principles of psychology. Freud, although he concentrated on psychosexual development, formulated a useful principle that guides therapeutic models: whenever a conflict arises, mental health will attain equilibrium when resolution of said conflict is attained. Resolution may indeed consist of accepting a reconciliation between the opposing elements that make up the conflict, or resolution can be attained by sacrificing one element in favour of the whole.

In the case of Lisa De Witt, who herself goes by the anonymous ID of "Warrior Princess" and has a long history of anonymous attacking behaviour, it is mournful to see that a sexual abuse victim should exhibit the signs and behaviours that are similar to her own experience of sexual abuse. She should know better. It just doesn't work that way. These things are nomothetic, not idiographic. Lisa if you can't understand these big words, consult a dictionary.

Regarding movies, Lisa must be blind or have other sight problems if she cannot see the obvious cheating. It's not just the Doordarshan footage that has been questioned; there are many more clips in documentary movies (including official ashram videos that show Sai Baba cheating as well as the 'SEDUCED' documentary) and some of these are at www.exbaba.com . In fact, I happened to watch the SEDUCED documentary today (I have it on CD-ROM) and I was laughing my ass off; how could anyone believe that this cheap magician is God? How did we ever fall for it? Some people still think it's genuine, that's sad.

I actually led a group at one time, so there are no amount of witnesses to testify my activities at the ashram.
The vidoes are well documented and nobody can deny the Indian Govt pulled the video of sb taking a bangle from under a present of some kind.

Edited by author 06-03-2006 02:01 AM
Anyone who claims movies conclusively show Baba cheating are conclusively LIARS. I have looked at these movies on both 19 and 27 inch t.v. and they show NO such thing. You con artists have NO credible experts who have analyzed these films and agreed with you. In fact, Haraldsson who is one of the FOREMOST experts in parapsychology today and who has worked with NASA scientist, Edgar D. Mitchell on an Apollo 14 ESP project, says the Doordarshan video does NOT show cheating as the sceptics and their partners in crime have claimed. Haraldsson even went so far as to have an EXPERT analyze the film and the expert said it did NOT show cheating.

Fraud is VERY easy to prove in court and NOT one of you has done it yet because you can't even prove it on the internet! In fact, you bozos don't DARE go near a court room with all your lies. It is no wonder you claim to be afraid of the Indian government . If I were liars like you, I would be afraid of the court room too.
 
If you want to prove something let's see you cowards in a court room. I am tired of your whining, lies and idiocy that NEVER ends. You bozos don't deserve to be believed. You hide behind anonymous names and stories and whine, moan and lie like cowards. PERIOD. End of Story. Now get a life before you end up in jail on fraud charges, because I'll put you in jail if I EVER get the chance to prove what con artists you are. And you better hope I don't. I'm tired of watching you spineless cowards harass people.

Edited by author 06-03-2006 12:54 AM
You know I never thought that Tony O'Clery may be a woman although there is some sexual confusion (see "aoclerry" female (Antoinette?) yahoo profile on google and on membership roster at SSB2). See also the movie credits for Third Man Out, a gay themed movie shown only on cable, which lists an Anthony O'Clery as one of the actors. Tony admitted he hung out with the transgendered men at Puttaparthi. Maybe Tony likes to wear his wife's clothes.

Sorry, I don't take anonymous people who claimed to be sexually abused by Baba seriously. I've seen too many liars and you are probably one of them.
You've probably never even been to see Baba as your story sounds a phony as a three dollar bill. And you ARE attacking Baba, liar. In fact, you are a coward doing it anonymously so get real con artist. I'm a REAL sexual abuse victim and I can smell a phony a thousand miles away.

There is more to follow in the story of Sai Baba's violent beating of a tiny three-year-old child. Please avail yourselves of the following article:

Suffer MORE Children Unto Sai Baba.

You know I had never thought that lisa may be a man, even thought it seems there is some sexual confusion.

i am surprised that people can call each other names .Lisa (this is most probably a man in a woman's name) is worthcalpeople names and wasting ur time. if u have logcal arguments to prove your point do it . if u do not want to know the truth and don't want others togive their openion, it shows you do not want to know the truth. Well that is ur wish. but don't make personal attacks. i am a victim of baba and iam not dadlani or any other of ur knwon people. if i call baba names i have the right, for i suffered.
   
  I know how u feel? but know this fanatic emotional denials will not be an answer to the questions raised by anti sai s . what is ur answer to the vedio clippings showing baba cheating his so called creations QT - Lisa Warrior Princess <qtopic+29-FE68KidtskS@quicktopic.com> wrote:

    
---------------------------------
  Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new Click here Send free SMS to your Friends on Mobile from your Yahoo! Messenger Download now < replied-to message removed by QT >

Edited by author 05-31-2006 08:35 PM
Re /m113: Thanks, ex-premie, for your compliments.
Re /m114: Given that several different people we posting here before I/we came along and are still posting/reading this board, why do I have to respond to asinine accusations of posting under false names when I have my own? For the record, I am not ex-premie. With all due respect to ex-premie, the term 'ex-premie' is used by former followers of Guru Maharajji. I have no connection with Guru Maharajji or his movement whatsoever.

Re /m112: The idea that the boy in question (see 'Suffer The Children Unto Sai Baba') may have suffered from cystic fibrosis does not stand as a form of proof. Since Lisa "Warrior Princess" has no access to medical records of the boy in question or his mother (who was also abused as a child by Sai Baba along with her brother), it is unreasonable to expect that Sai Baba violently beat a three-year-old child under the premise of "healing" him of alleged cystic fibrosis. By the same token, we can also believe that Sai Baba touches, rubs oil on and orally sucks the genitals of many men and young boys for the purpose of raising their kundalinis as many devotees would have us believe.

These comments in particular are most disturbing:

"The little boy Dadlani whines about most likely had cystic fibrosis...

"Funny thing about the anti-Sais, they complain about people being abused but the people they babble about aren't complaining. You don't see this little boy complaining now do you? The anti-Sais only feed you selectively the part of the picture the want you to see. They don't want you to see the truth."

Pardon me, but I find it a humanistic duty to "whine" in protest when a 25/26 year old boy (Sai Baba) needless and violently beats a three-year-old child for no apparent reason.

Aside from that, this incident is recounted in a devotional book published by a Sai devotee which anybody can purchase and see the "truth" for themselves. And a plus to that, the testimony states that the boy did complain in a most anguished manner:

Source: "The poor little boy! He came running to me, sobbing. The sobs did not subside even after one hour ... The minute I took him out of the cradle, my son would say pathetically, 'Don't take me to Swami, mother,' and break into tears. I would feel very pained. But when Swami ordered me to bring the boy, how could I say no?"

The boy was also reported as "yelling and crying". What a crying shame that the mother was so brainwashed about Sai Baba's divinity that she had convinced herself that this extremely violent behaviour was for the good of her child. I'm sure that would go down very well with today's mothers. Try that logic out on your friends; go to the nearest mother you see, attempt to beat the living hell out of her child, and let's see what happens.

It is deplorable that today's "Sai devotees" dismiss this activity as 'whining' and otherwise worthy of ignoring. Sai Baba is on record as having violently abused a three-year-old child, and had even abused the child's mother and her brother when they were young to boot! It just goes to show you how much Sai Baba's devotees have imbibed the love, compassion and sympathy that he so often preaches about. As is the guru, so are the disciples.

Namaste,
>
> I don't believe sb is a great anti Christ, he's too insignificant,
> but he does fit the bill for the minor anti Christs mentioned in
> the NT...the deceivers...Tony
>
>
> He follows up by stating that this falling away will immediately
> precede or be accompanied by the revealing of "the Man of Sin,"
also
> called "the Son of Perdition" (v. 3) and "the Lawless One" (v 8).
> The Man of Sin is portrayed by Paul in this passage as a personal
> entity, not a government or organization. This one is widely
equated
> with the Antichrist spoken of by John, as well as "the Beast"
> mentioned in the book of Revelation (Rev. 11:7; 13:1-6; 19:19-20).
>
> Paul tells us that the Man of Sin will "oppose and exalt himself
> above ALL that is called God or that is worshiped" (v. 4). This
> would include not only the one true God, but all other "gods and
> lords" (cf. 1 Cor. 8:5) as well. These "gods and lords" are the
gods
> (Heb. 'elohim) of the nations (Deu. 6:14; 31:16; Jdg. 2:11-13; II
> Kings 18:33-35; Zep. 2:11), the ruling angels of the heavenly
divine
> council.
>
> Paul then tells us that the Man of Sin will "sit as God in the
> Temple of God, showing himself that he is God." The Greek verb
> apodeiknunta ("showing") literally means "to demonstrate, prove or
> proclaim" something. Paul says that the reason the Man of Sin does
> this is to prove TO HIMSELF that he is God.
>
> To understand why this act would demonstrate to the Man of Sin
that
> he is greater than all other divine beings, we must determine what
> Paul meant by the Man of Sin sitting in the Temple of God. How
> should we understand this statement? Is it figurative or literal?
>
> If Paul intended it to be figurative, what would the Temple of God
> represent? In another of his letters, Paul speaks of the body of a
> believer being the Temple of God because the Holy Spirit dwells
> within it (1 Cor. 3:16-17; 1 Cor. 6:19). Similar references in the

Namaste,

sb sits in the mandir claiming to be the Father of Jesus, Allah and
all the names of God. Yet he is a pedophile, murderer, embezzler,
criminal conjurer--------a man of sin, claiming to be God....Tony

Edited by author 05-31-2006 06:17 AM
What'd I say folks? It's Dadlani the pervert (or one of his partners in crime like Reinier van der Sandt) playing his usual childish mindgames. What would the anti-Sais do without all their mindgames? Would they just roll over and die from no attention? That's ok bozo, most of the stuff documented on your gang of creeps is for CRIMINAL and /or VERY perverted behavior. Maybe you need to wash your brain out too since you are consorting with the lowest of the low, coward. I wonder how the ex-premies feel about a wacko like you pretending to be in their camp. Especially when you are hanging out with Dadlani the jesus porn freako.

Funny that the anti-Sais feel free to slander and slur anyone they may and then whine like crybabies when the DOCUMENTED TRUTH is told about them. That's why they avoid the courtroom like it's the plague.
And poor Reinier van der Sandt has to hide behind anonymous names like "ex-premie" because he is afraid to show his mug in public.

http://www.saisathyasai.com/baba/Ex-Baba.c...-van-der-sandt.html

http://sanjaydadlaniexposed.blogspot.com/2...een-porn-child.html

Seems Lisa is a perfect example for a Sai follower. But I know plenty who are revolted that his name is associated with her. I have found a blog about her, which - even if by her enemy - makes for interesting reading.
See http://saibabaexposed.blogspot.com/2006/05...n-lisa-de-witt.html Hi there, folks, use you own wits... not de Witts!

Edited by author 05-31-2006 05:24 AM
Just as I said. This Lisa wants a name so she can go to town and defame the more and the worse. Hard luck. You show your pit-bottom nature every time you post anywhere, it seems.
BTW, this is NOT Dadlani... but Lisa will say anything - to go by the posting I have just looked at, no distortion or outright lie seems beyond her.

Edited by author 05-31-2006 04:56 AM
Apparently ex-premie the coward hiding behind a phony name (probably Dadlani pretending to be someone else) hasn't seen the vulgar sexual language used by both Dadlani AND O'Clery. Or if he has, is complicit in their sexual perversion. After all, the perverts of a feather are definitely flocking together in th anti-Sai gang of thugs. Almost everyone I've investigated in the anti-Sai group is a sexual pervert or drug and/or alcohol abuser.

I am struck by the elevated level of discussion from joe108 (Moreno) and especially "Lisa Warrior Princess". Where in heck were they brought up... in what slum or brothel? In the eyes of anyone with their senses in order, they give the whole game away by their own words... give it game, set and match to sai baba exposed, of course!

Alaya Rahm couldn't even make it into the courtroom with his accusations. Nobody but the pathological liars in the anti-Sai group believe his ridiculous stories. Talk about "true believer" syndrome. These wackos never saw a lie they didn't like!

The little boy Dadlani whines about most likely had cystic fibrosis and required percussive therapy (which is very painful but necssary) in his back to keep him from dying of the lung disease.

On the other hand, keep your children away from Dadlani. He admitted to downloading child porn, buying drugs on the street and drooling over La Vey's satanic bible. He also stalked women and put their pics on his blog with disgusting sexual comments.

The "true believers" in the anti-Sai crowd are on the road to perdition.

Funny thing about the anti-Sais, they complain about people being abused but the people they babble about aren't complaining. You don't see this little boy complaining now do you? The anti-Sais only feed you selectively the part of the picture the want you to see. They don't want you to see the truth.

Sai Baba documented in devotional literature as having abused a three-year-old child. Find out all about it here:

Suffer The Children Unto Sai Baba.

You can't argue with a brainwashed devotee who continues to let Sai baba abuse her child. You can't argue with a crying child who doesn't want to hang out with Sai Baba any more. You can't argue with Sai Baba's elder sister, who apparently exhibits a blasé attitude towards Sai baba's violence towards little kids. You can't argue with Sai Baba's physical/verbal abuse of the mother and her brother when they were kids.

Sick pervert Sai Baba.

Edited by author 05-30-2006 10:12 PM
Dadlani gives himself away. How does Dadlani know so much about gay icons? Hmmm.

Poor pathological liar Dadlani. There's more than enough proof of the perverts & mental cases in your group. All one has to do is read your foul-mouthed posts! Out of your OWN mouth, remember perverts?

So Tony, the cross-dressing maven, are you finally admitting that YOU think all the homos (like Larsson, Ord, Sampath, Bailey, Brooke and jesus porn fanatic Dadlani) in your anti-Sai group are perverts?

Like I said, EVERYTHING about you is perverted Tony.

Edited by author 05-30-2006 08:20 PM
Re /m104: Nobody is interested in conversing with a nutty pervert who shamelessly accuses former devotees of every evil perversion under the sun without any form of proof at all, what to speak of someone who claims to have delusionary visions of Jesus Christ and several angels, wishing death upon former devotees of Sathya Sai Baba, racism against white and Middle Eastern men, and keeping her sexuality secret for an extensive period of time:

Sai Baba's Naughty Children: Lisa De Witt.

Her latest appellation of "Warrior Princess" is easily connected to the TV series 'Xena: Warrior Princess', where the main character played by Lucy Lawless is a very well known lesbian icon.

In any case, she has proved time and time again that she is completely incapable of discussing the issues surrounding Sai Baba, most notably the recent boo-boo about Kali yuga. Her posting here achieves nothing and is simply a distraction, and therefore I renew my calls for her posting rights to be revoked here, and in the meantime we all do not feed this troll with the attention she desperately seeks.

Namaste,

There is nothing perverted about what I write. In the first place I
am heterosexual unlike you; so there's no excuse for attack at all.
If I enjoyed writing about how sb committs fellatio and anal
intercouse on minors, I would make it lurid.

My Vedantic philosophy and the concept of Ahimsa requires that I
expose sb and his perverted coterie of criminals and perverts, on
the net and off, in order to save other people from being hurt by
this demonic giant example of HIMSA.

My philosophy as an adviatin or aspiring advaitin comes under the
idea propounded by the great Vedantist Sri Sankaracharya, that' it
is real enough whilst one is in it and therefore one has to deal
with it'.

I have no sexual perversions of any kind, I'm totally straight and
boring, unlike yourself.

One would worry about yourself my dear.....I had no female profile,
although some female members of my family did for a while..

There is absolutely nothing you can catch me out on with your
psychological defensive speculations, and true believer syndrome.

It is not about me it is about sb the criminal, murderer, conjurer,
embezzler, liar and deceive a minor anti Christ that fits the
description given by St Paul...........Tony.

Edited by author 05-30-2006 06:27 PM
Baloney Tony. You have said MANY times Baba is running them. You've told so many lies you can't remember them. In fact, you are literally drowning in all your lies. You and Sanjay Dadlani aka Sai Baba Exposed are two of the biggest nutcases (among many) in the anti-Sai crowd. There are more mentally disturbed people in your group of thugs than there are "normal" people! And the ones who are supposedly the most normal all have LONG histories of drug and/or alcohol abuse (Robert Priddy, Tal Brooke, etc.).
You people have ZERO credibility outside of a courtroom and you will have even less inside a courtroom with all the lies you tell. You are nothing but a bunch of incessant FRAUDS and con artists.

There are brothels in pn. One used to be near the Ganesha Gate. I'm not saying sb himself was running them but some of his pedophile ring no doubt were or rather are. Remember that sb and his brother J owned a lot of hotel property in pn and puttaparthi. Strange for a so called holy man to build up property. On anthother not J died and sb couldn 't save him either.

I'm not interested in conversing with a sexual pervert such as Sai Baba Exposed who looks at jesus porn, stalks women with his videocam and posts their pics online with disgusting vulger comments such as "they want it" and worse and may be into satanic worship. Sai Baba Exposed is an insult to all molestation victims such as myself. Ditto for foul-mouthed O'Clery whose latest entry at SSB2 is "why did Sai Baba lust after my anus?" These are the sexual perverts attacking Sai Baba.

hi
  i was in parthi for a long long time and i know baba is a fraud. but i dont think he has got brothels. he is too smart for doing such foolish things. he has boys and some lady teachers for his satisfaction and does not need whores from outside.
QT - Lisa Warrior Princess <qtopic+29-FE68KidtskS@quicktopic.com> wrote:

    
---------------------------------
  Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new Click here Send free SMS to your Friends on Mobile from your Yahoo! Messenger Download now < replied-to message removed by QT >

Ms. "Warrior Princess", Sai Baba has been caught contradicting himself yet again on the matter of Kali yuga. If possible, please refute this. Or else, you have no point to make. :-)

Tony aka dingo lies so much we really don't know that he is not drinking anymore. He seems to be delusional in claiming there are brothels run by Sai Baba in both Puttaparthi and Kodaikanal where there are orgies and drug-taking. Tony also claimed a few years ago on another forum that the Bushes were shapeshifting reptilians who drink blood in order to stay alive.

Tony is more like a character out of a sci-fi movie.

Tony, like Sai Baba Exposed, has a very big mouth and ego. They are two egomaniacs seeking their fifteen minutes of fame.

Readers are kindly invited to view the latest posting on my blog: Sai Baba's Kali-yuga boo-boo.

Yet another contradiction of Sai Baba documented for posterity.

Edited by author 05-22-2006 11:17 PM
Gerald 'Joe' Moreno, go back and read your own messages. Especially these: /m31, /m62, /m96. Interpret, twist and deny what I said as much as you like.

The fact of the matter is that you are deflecting the issue and focusing on my 'Links' section which I was not referring to. The fact remains that I do reference Pro-Sai links whenever applicable, and your contention that I do not do so is a lie. Your second lie is your contention that you are referring to Anti-Sai links. Show us the message where you explicitly stated that you were referring to these links.

You cannot do so because you never said anything of the sort. :-) Again I will need to drive it into Gerald's thick head that I have no control over the way Blogger works; if their templates allow for my 'Links' section to show up on every page then there is nothing I can do about it. How obtuse of Gerald to attempt to blame me for something that is beyond my control.

Get a grip and find your way out of the web of your own self-created lies. As for desperation, I'm not the one continuing to focus on topics that are irrelevant to the subject of this board. So much so that I'll state it again: "I think that Gerald should realise that his postings are not even welcome here considering that he hasn't posted anything substantial to the topic of this forum, and instead comes here only to attack former devotees of Sathya Sai Baba. And lie while doing it too. Shameful and pathetic."

Get lost, Gerald. :-)

Sai Baba's Naughty Children: Gerald 'Joe' Moreno.

Since Gerald Moreno has continually proved himself to be utterly incapable of engaging in a discussion about Sathya Sai Baba (the topic of this board) and can only attack former devotees and proceed to lie about it, I think that this will be my final post on this scoundrel. I shall now take the high road and restrict myself to discussing only points about Sathya Sai Baba.

Go back and re-read my message. Interpret, twist and deny what I said as much as you like. The fact of the matter is that the links to Pro-Sai Sites (that you make mention to) are solely confined to the individual articles that contain those Pro-Sai links. While, on the other hand, the Anti-Sai links (I made reference to) are displayed on every single page on your blog because they are located on the side menu.

So the only person twisting anything is you, Sanjay. Get a grip. You sound really desperate.

All About Sanjay Dadlani (Sai Baba Exposed)
Sanjay Dadlani Exposed Blog

Hi Freestone,

I think that is a very good topic for discussion. Although I haven't composed a blog about Sai Baba's internet views (I should do so soon!), I have nevertheless written something about his views on television and movies.

You might like to check it out: Sai Baba and the Evils of Television.

That's another article that contains profuse links to official Sai sites. :-)

Edited by author 05-22-2006 08:26 PM
I submit that Joe108 is being deceitful and is twisting the discussion in a manner to suit himself, as he is famous for doing. That is, assuming that his points are even relevant to this discussion board in the first place.

In /m31, Joe108 (Gerald 'Joe' Moreno) stated the following:

"I'll aptly note that despite Sanjay Dadlani's accusations of 'malicious and defamatory content' on my site, he does not cite the pages or provides any links to examples of such."

My reply in /m62 stated the following:

"Joe108 (Gerald 'Joe' Moreno) is a liar. He claims that I only promote anti-Sai links on my "Sai Baba EXPOSED!" blog. This is wholly untrue; I have reference pro-Sai sites all over my blog, especially the places where I quote Sai Baba directly by providing a link to original discourse files hosted on official Sai websites. At least I go to some lengths to track down Sai Baba's words directly to the record, which is something that most devotees never do and are simply content with paraphrasing him, their worshippable Lord and master in /m48 for an example."

This remains true then as now. Just a cursory reading of the front page of my blog (as it stands of 23/05/06) reveals that there are no less than three links to official Sathya Sai Baba sites in one of my recent postings: Sai Baba and the Sarvadharma Imbroglio.

Clearly I am referring to links posted within my articles where I have linked to official discourse files, vahini sites and even to a Sai video site! Gerald Moreno wants to deliberately deceive people by ignoring all of this in order to focus on my "Links" section. Clearly I can do nothing about my Links section as he correctly notes that it is displayed on every page on my blog; That's the way Blogger works, nothing I can do about it.

Focusing on one area and deliberately ignoring the MANY articles that I have written which include profuse links (whenever applicable) to official and devotional Sai sites is deception on the part of Gerald Moreno.

I think that Gerald should realise that his postings are not even welcome here considering that he hasn't posted anything substantial to the topic of this forum, and instead comes here only to attack former devotees of Sathya Sai Baba. And lie while doing it too. Shameful and pathetic.

Sanjay just proved himself to be a liar (once again). Go to his blog, SaiBabaExposed, and look at the "Links" section. One will notice that all the solicited links go to Anti-Sai Sites. The list is as follows (and I have it screen-capped in case Sanjay decides to pull one of his deceptive stunts):

ExBaba.Com
SaiGuru.Net
The Enigma Reconsidered (Robert Priddy's Anti-Sai Site)
Brian Steel's Ongoing Investigation

These links are listed on every single page, as they are part of the side menu. So when I said, "Take a look at his blog and all Sanjay does is advertise Anti-Sai Sites!", I was telling the truth. And it's there for anyone to verify for him/her self.

when I have more time, I intend to write about what baba thinks of the Internet! As i understand what i have read, I think that he says that there is nothing good in it!
or computers.

or Indian movies either.

ah, born before 1960! I have friends now, who are at age 50, who think that the internet is an alien thing, not for them. And that "right click"
is just as an "occult' subject as some dusty tome from 1500 AD!!
[the digital divide]

I will google to see what baba actually SAYS about the interent and computers, soon

freestone

Sai Baba is well known for talking a lot of nonsense (such as his declarations to be the Lord of Lords, God incarnate upon earth) but it is very rare to hear of these things being written down on paper.

In marked contrast to his publicised speeches where he says anything and everything that he likes, we'd like to invite you all to find out how The Pen Is Mightier Than The Mouth.

Edited by author 05-18-2006 10:23 PM
These gits don't seem able to get it into their thick heads that it's all about Sai Baba and nobody else.

Moreover, alcoholism is an illness, and a debilitating one at that. If Tony O'Clery is a recovering alcoholic then he gets my full encouragement and support for that, as do all recovering alcoholics. I find it absolutely inhumane that devotees of a so-called loving God would relentlessly delight in shoving the issue of alcohol constantly into the face of recovering alcoholics, considering that the risk of relapse for recovering is a very real and present danger.

Shame on them, is what I have to say on the matter.

And just in case someone brings up my own references to alcohol and Simon Brace (another abusive devotee of Sai Baba), I have also publicly expressed sympathy for his own alcoholic affliction with all due emotion. The reason why I may bring up Simon's alcoholism is that he also doesn't seem to understand that it's all about Sai Baba and no one else, what to speak of the fact that he constantly points out the fauls (real or imagined) in other people while ignoring his own. To me, that is not the sign of a true spiritualist nor the sign of a true Sai devotee. There are tons of Sai devotees who have far better characters than these guys, why do we have to deal with the scrapings from the bottom of the barrel?

Namaste,

And that is whatever your last thought is, affects your next life
and where you go on the Astral.

So if you die with his image in your mind, you will end up with
other sb devotees on the AStral.

This may be ok if he was a Jesus or Rama but the fact that he is a
anal molesting pedophile full of evil and ego, it is disastrous.
FOR ONE WOULD BE A CAPTIVE SPIRIT, on the Astral and a human minon
on return to the world.

Lovelock the great UK scientist says the world has passed the
tipping point and there is only 50-100 years left for humanity, due
to the effects of global warming. This means only 4 generations
opportunity for rebirth.

DO NOT WASTE IT WITH A BUM RAPING FRAUD LIKE SB.......From the only
barking dingo

To put things straight I have not partaken of alcohol since 1985 nor meat either.

Tony is a lower astral form with impaired thinking due to excessive alcohol consumption...lol.

In the almost fours years I've listened to Tony, he very rarely has anything nice to say. He thrives on negativity. In short, he is a whiner. And not only is he a whiner but he is also a pathological liar as are so many of the anti-Sais. Deception is their favorite weapon.

I don't know whether it wasn't just thought forms or spirit interference that did the astral appearances of sb. Astral travel is common to all of us in dreams anyway.
To learn about shape shifters read 'Ramayana'.

I only published on icke's site, as anybody can. That doesn't mean I agree with him or disagree with him. Warman has fallen into great disrepute here in Canada generally.

Tony has made so many ridiculous and contradictory statements and outright lies it is hard to consider him credible. He seems to jump from ism to ism for his spiritual highs.

It's funny to hear Tony accuse others of having true believer syndrome when it is well documented that O'Clery has deep connections to the reptilian conspiricists like Icke, Dan Winter and the guy who runs HiddenMysteries.org.

A lot of defamatory material has been removed from Icke's website after he was sued for defamation by a guy named Warman in Canada.

Excerpts from article by Tony O'Clery on HiddenMysteries.org:

"He bi-locates in his subtle body frequently and I myself along with my daughters have experienced this on more than one occasion. He visits people in their dreams often as well. Many devotees houses have ash and honey manifesting and dripping of pictures in their houses. I have seen this personally in Vancouver, in India at the temple at Sri Rangapatnam and other places around the world."

"I don't know whether he has taken reptilian form but it you read the great Indian Spiritual Epic,' The Ramayana', it is full of the shape-shifters that occupied the planet before Adamic man, and could take any form. "
http://www.hiddenmysteries.org/themagazine...icles/saibaba.shtml

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:GLMNUt...=clnk&cd=1&ie=UTF-8

It is important to note Dorothy was in her seventies when Baba healed her in 1993. I guess O'Clery expected Baba to reverse the aging process as well.

Here is the book by Murphet; 'Sai Inner Views and Insights' - Leela Press..1996...
 
Murphet wrote:
p120: "I have witnessed cases where Swami has made cripples walk, but I did not find out what happened to them afterwards. But since the O'Brien twins are among our closest friends, I can bear witness that the lovely Dorothy O'Brian is still walking without the aid of a wheelchair or crutchs three years after her healing."

Exbaba's version of the O'Brien story is like reading the satanic version by Tony O'Clery. Only the demonic try to do what Tony is doing to a dead person. We'll probably find out Tony O'Clery is a satanist.

*****************************************
Ever since they were small children they have believed that God is love and that goodness and love are to be found in every person. After living full lives as occupational therapists, they retired and immediately established SWARA, which provides meaningful work and education for hundreds of severely disabled people of all ages. They have directed SWARA for the last 25 years based on the principle that God is within everyone and that every person has a wonderful Divine potential eager to be expressed.  The love and joy that flows out through the Twins' autobiography has profoundly moved and inspired many people who have read their story.  The reading of their lives is an absorbing and uplifting experience. Dorothy and Moyia O'Brien are 80 year old identical twins who live in Brisbane, Australia.   "The Touch of the Lord" First published in May 1999.
It describes the lives of the O'Brien twins, "The Pink Twins", and the amazing story of SWARA - the Sunshine Welfare and Rehabilitation Association - which they established after they retired to assist severely disabled people . The real miracle is how can two elderly ladies, both severely hampered in their own mobility, manage to run a workplace for over 200 mentally and physically disabled people, on 2 hectares of derelict government land in the centre of Brisbane with only dedicated volunteers and no paid employees under the constant threat of eviction? Howard Murphett, the renowned author of "Sai Baba: Man of Miracles", "Sai Baba Avatar" and "Sai Baba: Invitation to Glory" writes in the forward - During the 18 years since I have met them, something special has grown in my heart for the unique twins Dorothy and Moyia O'Brien.  This something seems to be a mixture of spiritual love, great admiration and a special respect.  The years too have spread their name and fame throughout the large and growing Sai Organisation in Australia; they are generally known as the "Pink Twins", a name which Sai Baba Himself often uses for them.  The reason for this is that they usually dress in pink - a simple enough reason, yet pink, the colour of love and light, seems to be specially fitting and appropriate.
The cost of the book is Aus$7 plus postage .
   ----------
http://www.ronfarmer.biz/divine/listing/touch.htm

Sai Baba called her and couldn't cure Dorothy

 

Date: 12-08-05

From: Tony O'Clery

Email: aoclery@yahoo.com
 

Namaste,

Unfortunately for sb this is all documented by his favourite author Murphett. sb told Valmai Worthington to tell the 'Pink Twins' from Australia to be cured of their arthritic knees by him. He even told them to cancel their appointments for knee replacement surgery.

They came, he circled his hands over the knees, with coloured vibhuti and then walked her around to show a cure. She could manage to walk a little anyway, but in pain.

I was a member of the SWARA centre - where Dorothy and her sister worked -, for the years 1986 and 1987, with partial year attendances through to 1992, after that my Australian attendances were in the Sydney Centres only, and I was the secretary of the Vancouver sai centre and was well known in Canada

 

 

On February 3, 2002, a Peace Pole was planted at Sunshine Welfare and Remedial Association (SWARA) in Brisbane, Australia by SWARA founders Dorothy and Moyia O’Brien and other Sai Baba devotees.

The two sisters – known as the “Pink Twins” for their matching pink colors – established SWARA for those disabled in accidents.

On February 14, a World Peace Prayer Ceremony was held at the new Peace Pole by 50 disabled residents and local students. WPPS Director Deborah Moldow delivered a keynote speech on “Inner Peace as a Path to World Peace” at the World Goodwill Symposium held on November 17, 2001 in New York.
 
 


My friend lived with them, and my children knew them both as well.

So it was more than a passing acquaintance. There is even a photo of me working as a volunteer there. It was sent to India, perhaps it is in the book with all the others.

Well folks that was it, next time in Oz I saw her at the 'Wayside Chapel' in Sydney she was uncured for all to see.

sb is worse than the sunday morning tv frauds.

Remember most get an energy boost psychosomatically at these mass healing etc, and it lasts about 5 minutes. sb preyed on that and he claims to be God so cannot make a mistake even ONCE or he is a fraud.

 

 

"Even he with the worst karma who ceaselessly meditates on me quickly loses the effects of his past actions.'' (Sai Baba...FFWG p.257)

"The omnipresent omniscient omnipotent Sai knows the past and present and future of everyone..." "There is no ailment which he cannot cure, he does cancel the residues of karma..." (Sai Baba... FFWG p.137)
 
 


GUESS WHAT FOLKS SB IS A FRAUD OUT OF HIS OWN MOUTH WITH HIS UNHOLY AND OTHER DESIRES

My family knew the 'Pink Twins' and loved them well. We were quite upset to find out that sb had cruelly misused, conned, and mislead these devoted twins just for a bit of extra propaganda for his rotshram. It was probably one of the most despicable acts perpetrated by this pedophile, murderer, embezzler and fraud. It was unconscienable to call them to India to perpetrate this cruel hoax. It shows the demonic tendencies of this palpable fraud.

He used the work they did at SWARA, to bask in reflected glory and con more people into his spider's web of deceit. Except for villagers in India most devotees these days are naive or mentally challenged in some way, except of course for those that have sympathy with his pedophilia or a milking money and name at the centers.

Howard Murphet's opening words in his book, 'my growing public around the world', p iii; show that his own ego was at play. He already had said he wanted to be like Somerset Maugham. So Howard in his blind, bereaved, depressed, deluded state is no example of logical and clear thought unfortunately. Right from the start with his propaganda book full of lies 'Man of Miracles', Howard was always interested in Howard and his writers reputation. Many writes
write sb books for that's all they can get published, most are frustrated writers full of ego and fantasies.

The fact remains Dorothy was in a wheelchair in 1993 and still up to her death in 2003 as indicated by her sister and ABC..

You will notice in this page from a tv interview that Dorothy is still in a wheelchair. No cure from sb the cruel lying molesting fraud.

http://tinyurl.com/dmldg (Not available anymore? Click here!)

From Murphet's book, 'Sai Inner Views and Insights', ch..'Dorothy's Knees'..p116-120. Leela Press...1996.

(It is also on an Ashram Video showing sb walking Dorothy out to the crowd of devotees to show the great 'cure' he had achieved.)

"Dorothy was given a chance to have knee replacement in Brisbane but sb said this... 'No Swami replied... No operation."

Valmai asked him again. 'Swami I want to make sure I understand you correctly about Dorothy's knees. The surgeon says she must have an operation. Please tell me again what you said about that?

Swami replied, quite decisively "No operation I will operate, I will cure her." So being happy about this Dorothy cancelled the surgery after being on the waiting list in Brisbane. She was in Australia at the time but made the painful trip to India for her 'cure'.

The whole thing was a psychological adrenalin show and on return to Australia she found she wasn't cured at all... sb used her for temporary propaganda purposes after they had devoted their lives to him at SWARA.

I knew the sufferers of 'True Believer Syndrome' would be out ranting in their delusions. So here is the breakdown.

1. sb told Valmai Worthington to invite the Pink Twins to the Ashram for a cure of Dorothy's arthritic knees. He told them to cancel the knee replacement surgery as he would cure them.

2. Dorothy used a wheelchair and walking sticks. She could walk a few step anyway.

3. sb using coloured vibhuti tablets made circling motions over the knees. Then said he couldn't make a full cure due to karma. (He calls himself the king of karma so why he would say that I don't know).

4. She was excited and full of adrenalin and probably pain killers, so the walked out to the crowd like a sunday morning benny hinn healing, to show everybody how omnipotent he was.

5. She returned to the sticks and wheelchair, and was seen by thousands during the 90s in that state.

6. In 2003 hundreds of thousands perhaps millions saw her in the wheelchair on TV, and her sister Moiya saying she wished she didn't have to be in a wheelchair. Moiya by the way refused all help and healing from sb, saying that it was for Dorothy as she was much worse.

7. The only contradiction to this comes from a blind and virtually confined to the house failed writer called Howard Murphet. Who complains continually about not being Somerset Maugham.

8. The obvious personal and video tv evidence contradict this poor deluded man.

Murphet also wrote ©1996 p120:

"I have witnessed cases where Swami has made cripples walk, but I did not find out what happened to them afterwards. But since the O'Brien twins are among our closest friends, I can bear witness that the lovely Dorothy O'Brian is still walking without the aid of a wheelchair or crutchs three years after her healing."

But Murphett also wrote p iii.- Inner Views and Insights:

"To explain this I must say a few words about my eyesight. 'For the past half dozen years it has been so impaired that I am unable to read or write.' "

So Howard couldn't see, he was blind and couldn't read or write.

At the public meeting at the Wayside Chapel, known as the Noffery after the Rev Ted Noffs, Dorothy O'Brian finished speaking and couldn't walk far. She walked very slowly with people each side of her just across the room to the hallway where she had to sit down. It was here that I got her the glass of orange juice and she told me and others she wasn't fully cured and it would be gradual. This was all in public view and within the so called 3 years...

Sometimes people whose knees have been destroyed by arthritis, and the cartelidge has gone, can get some relief by losing a lot of weight and taking heavy pain killers etc. My sister has the same problem and is going in for a double knee replacement, thankfully free here in Canada or Australia. Dorothy was still under normal medical care in Queensland. As I have said she could always walk a few steps unaided, then she would need walking sticks, those non straight type, and when she was exhausted a wheelchair.

This puts the lie to sb and 'True Believer Syndrome' to poor misled and conned Dorothy, what a reward for all the work she did in that fraud's name....

Would those devotees suffering from the cognitive disfunction commonly known as 'True Believer Syndrome', please explain why she always needed her wheelchair if sb had cured her...

No, not one of sb's defending devotees have explained why Dorothy needed a wheelchair from the time of the so called cure right up to when she died. A ten year period in front of umpteen numbers of people, and on video and TV.

There are claims that she was walking around for 3 years as cured. This is not true, she was using her walking sticks etc and in a wheelchair, when tired. I don't know what kind of meds she was taking either, although she was under a doctors care for the condition still. There was no time of remission at all. She could always walk haltingly for a short time anyway... There was never any remission.

Yet sb didn't promise only a (3 years) break of her illness (which she didn't get anyway), but a complete cure. Even telling her to cancel her surgery as he would fix her and she would never need crutches and wheelchairs for the rest of her life.

I personally saw her in company of several dozens of people two years later in front of many people and she wasn't cured at all, besides I talked to her during that 3 years. She told me the healing would be gradual; well she died before it graduated.

Moiya, told me that she didn't want sb to cure her as Dorothy was worse. Dorothy suffered from 'True Believer Syndrome', as devotees do these days and couldn't face the fact that she may have wasted a lot of energy in her life believing in a fraud. Even to the exent of not believing her own disabled body, hadn't been cured...

Tony

Namaste,
>
> The are many claims that sb cures people, some actually are
> spontaneous remissions some are temporary energising. The real
proof
> comes when sb call somebody to India to cure them and then cannot.
>
>
> http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex_baba/engels/articles/nocureatall.html


and this:
Hi Tony,
Liked your comments on yahoo groups.
Are you aware that Joy Thomas wrote in one of her books about how SB
forced her to walk and took away her wheelchair... when she could not
manage without it. (She also tells how, when she and Raye finally
moved to India and the ashram, they were totally neglected by all the
former eager helpers... and forced to live in a room where people
were
walking past day and night. Further, Joy died in a Sai hospital
through lack of blood!
Many people in whellchairs can manage a few steps or can actually
walk, butnot for far or long/ SB makes great use of this fact.
Believers are so excited when he takes their hands that they make a
great effort, in the hope of being cured. But they almost certainly
never are.
R.
Namaste,

Yes I used to correspond with Joy when she was alive, and she used to
read the sainet. She trusted sb too much even with regards to taking
or not taking medicine. Her daughter know more about this than I
do....Tony.

There is absolutely NOTHING constructive about Sanjay Dadlani and his continuous attempts to undermine the truth regarding Sai Baba. The anti-Sais don't want to know the truth. All they want to do is be "right" and they will ignore any and all evidence to the contrary in order to prove their childish viewpoint. They have a win at all cost mentality. For example, Alaya Rahm, poster boy and movie star for the anti-Sais just lost his lawsuit against the Sathya Sai Baba Society but you won't hear a peep out of them about it. It won't be listed in their "NEWS" section because they don't want YOU, the general public, to know about it.

Read about it here:

http://www.saisathyasai.com/Rahm-Public-Court-Records/

Sanjay is trying to pull another fast one. His comment about semen traveling up the spine to the brain was MUCH earlier on (2003, I think) and Truthbliss called him on it. His direct quote stated, "Semen travels up the spine to the brain." Sanjay was bragging at the time about how he was an expert in tantra and was claiming he had learned tantra from a master. Turns out Sanjay lied about meeting Vimalanda as Vimalanda died when Sanjay was five years old.

If Sanjay would just stop lying we might be able to stop talking about his continuous lies. Don't count on it happening.

Sai Baba Exposed just HAS to be the center of attention everywhere he goes. Notice how Dadlani is ALWAYS trying desperately to monopolize the conversation and ALWAYS bossing people around teling them how they should think and act, etc.. Notice how he is trying desperately to kiss up to Freestone. How pathetic. The usual childish Dadlani playing his mind games like the dork he is.

Nobody is being kept from expressing themselves bozo It's not like they have to stand in line. Pathetic how you CONSTANTLY make up stories. Did your parents teach you to be such a con artist? Must work on all the dummies you hang out with.

Grow up bozo. You sound like an idiot.

Freestone, I appreciate your position as a neutral moderator, but surely you can see how the behaviour of Sai Baba's devotees are hijacking this board with their derisory and abusive insulting behaviour.

As you know about the existence of the previous two QT boards to discuss Sai Baba, you will also remember how they were both spammed to death with insulting and abusive messages from Sai devotees. The two individuals in question regularly spoil the discussions in other discussion boards too, and are simply replicating their strategy here. I hope that this board does not go the same way as the other two, because I would like to see a wonderful forum full of people all excitedly discussing Sai Baba news just as used to happen in the early days of the Sai Baba Expose.

It appears that the discussion here is simply being hijacked by pro-Sai people who have continually proved that they cannot engage in a sensible discussion about Sai Baba (the topic of this board) without indulging in profanity and slander. Admittedly I have done this too with posting of my own links, but I appeal that this was done in response to personal slander against me.

The sum of it is that I do not feel that other people are being given a chance to speak. I would like to see more postings from people like "Doug" and "Son of man", as well as other people who may be interested enough to join the conversation.

I would really appreciate if you could step in and put a stop to this kind of overwhelming behaviour, or at least attempt to keep this board on track by virtue of warnings for people who feel unable to participate in discussion. If you have a facility for banning or moderating members, I would also advise the use of it. Thank you.

Looks like Sai Baba's devotees continually prove that they are unable to take part in constructive discussions to get at the truth regarding Sai Baba, which is what this board is for. To disguise this humiliating inadequacy, they simply resort to criticising Sai Baba's attackers instead. Thus, this becomes their sole modus operandi: Sai Baba's Naughty Children.

Re: /m74: Lisa says that on Gerald Moreno's website my exact quote is there. Let's take a look at my post. It's a list of references gleaned from Internet search engines about "urdhvaretas", which is the Sanskrit term describing the process by which semen travels upwards into the brain via the practice of Kundalini Yoga.

Do I state anywhere that I believe this? Nope. Yet you see BOTH Lisa De Witt and Gerald 'Joe' Moreno shouting from the rooftops that I have "strange beliefs". A typical example of pro-Sai propaganda that is deceptive in nature and is resorted to when devotees cannot defend Sai Baba and his activities. :-)

Re: /m75: I hope people can see that pro-Sai devotees become enraged when they are unable to defend stories of Sai Baba's "wondrous miracles" in relation to his alleged superpowers. With reference to Sai Baba's alleged morphing genitals, they shout and scream about how this is a lie when they praise other "fantastic" stories about bullets changing into butterflies and sending devotees to Australia through his walls. :-) If he can do that, then why can't he change his genitals? Why is this simple thing so hard to believe? :-)

By the way, what bullets? Weren't the murdered students in 1993 alleged to have knives rather than guns, when there is no evidence that they had anything? Considering that this bullet-butterfly story originated with Sai Baba, it looks like even he is guilty of creating the propaganda that his devotees believe in. How'd ya like them apples? :-)

You abuse people (including Sai Baba) 24/7 and then whine when you get a taste of your own medicine, idiot. Wake up dumbo. In your deluded narcissistic little world you think you have an exclusive license to abuse people. Funny that you are so blind you can't see how abusive you are. As long as you talk nasty about others you are going to get it both barrels from me. Now quit whining ya wimp.

Quit trying to twist the story about the morphing genitals. The accusers are ALL trying to claim that Sai Baba is a fraud, but then they turn around and expect people to believe their stories about morphing genitalia. Tal Brooke even tried to claim Sai Baba's powers were because he is the anti-Christ. Now, twenty years later, Brooke has changed his story AGAIN (because he finally realized what a nutcase he sounded like) and just argues Baba is a fraud even though his books which are still in print go on and on about Sai Baba powers! And you dummies just can't FATHOM why sane peple can't POSSIBLY take you seriously when you bozos CONSTANTLY change your stories to suit your every whim.

Can your one brain cell understand this or do you need a map? When you couple this with all their other lies, it is not hard to deduct they are just liars (like you).
This is why they can't make it in a court room. Not hard to figure out if you actually had a brain.

What a liar. Your post with the direct quote is linked to on Joe's site (see page about Sanjay Dadlani on saisathyasai.com) and you argued it for the last year or more! I was the one you said it to Mr. Alzheimers. Are you finally changing your story because you realize how idiotic you are? Took long enough! Now if we can just get you to see what a pervert you are.

BTW, what was that you hypocritically blathered about cutting and pasting links and articles all over the internet? Wouldn't resemble you and Pittard's behavior would it? Why do dummies like you always play by double standards? Can't stand any competition you are so jealous, eh? Or are you just SO dumb you can't even see your own contradictions?

See "naughty jesus" lately bozo? Read your satanic bible lately bozo? I bet the psychiatrists are having a field day profiling you.

Edited by author 05-06-2006 10:23 PM
Re: /m70: I've stated again and again that I do not believe that semen travels up to the brain via the spine. However, there is no denying the fact that it is a valid and well-known feature of Kundalini Yoga. Several books on Kundalini and Kundalini Yoga deal with this subject. I should know, I have read at least two of them.

In any case, abusing me doesn't solve any of the questions. The fact also remains that if Sai devotees can believe such crazy stories about Sai Baba, why can't they believe that he can manipulate his genitals at will?

Think about it, if Sai Baba devotees believe that Sai Baba can make men walk through walls (which supposedly sends them to Australia to boot!), as well as Sai Baba having the power to transform the bullets shot at him into butterflies, is switching your genitals from male to female and back really that much of a hard task?

Let's not forget that he himself claims to be a dual incarnation of Shiva and Shakti, the male and female forces of the universe (and Hindu gods).

These questions (and more) have never been answered by any Sai devotee. No surprise there.

Oh God, Tony, quit lying and give us ALL a break. The accusers reported that Sai Baba's genitalia SUPERNATURALLY MORPHED from male to female. Stop trying to downgrade their obvious lies, or I will go and get their quotes so people can see, for the millionth time what a liar you are.

You'll have to forgive Tony, he also believes in Icke's reptilians and that the Bush's and the Royal Family are reptilians who have to drink peoples blood to live (roll eyes). Yet O'Clery has the audacity to claim others have "true believer" syndrome. Be sure to look at his page on Joe's site, saisathysai.com so you can see what a wacko he is.

It is not that actual semen reverses a flow to the brain but that the energy does.
With regard to sb's genitals, he has both operating male and female genitals as he is an hermaphrodite. This accounts for the reports, and the fact that trannies and others regard him as their personal avatar.
There is also a yogic function that can withdraw male genitals within the abdominal sac. This is much used by advance martial arts practitioners.

No need to listen to Sanjay Dadlani's drivel since his words on this and other boards prove me correct.

The truth is, it is Dadlani and his band of perverts that were constantly bring up the genital issue regarding Sai Baba. Tal Brooke was the first one to babble about this in his book so don't let Dadlani's deceptive tactics fool you. Now that we have pointed out the discrepancies in their stories claiming Sai Baba's genitalia supernaturally morphed from male to female (yet at the same time claiming he is a fraud), true to form, Dadlani the pathological liar is trying to twist the story.

Apparently, in addition to believing semen travels up the spine to the brain, Dadlani the pervert also believes in Sai Baba's morphing gentitals. I'd LOVE to see the dunderheads explain this in court.

Edited by author 05-05-2006 10:21 AM
Since Sai Baba's devotees appear to be overly concerned with the status of their guru's genitals, perhaps we can discuss that.

In this regard, I penned a blog about this issue some time ago: Sathya Sai Baba: Morphing Genitals? Board members can have a look at that for some background reading.

Here's a snippet:

"According to some testimonies, Sai Baba once arranged it so that an Australian devotee could walk through the wall of his private interview room and miraculously appear outside his home in Australia to attend to his sick wife. Another story relates to the infamous murder shooting incident of June 1993; close devotees testified that the bullets shot against him miraculously changed into butterflies. Considering that devotees believe all of these cartoon stories, is it really so surprising that he might actually be able to morph his genitals into that of the opposite sex? Funnily enough, he claims to be a dual incarnation of Shiva and Shakti, so there is no ontological reason why he wouldn't be able to manipulate his gender at will.

"This reason may also account for his effeminate behaviour that occurs on occasion."

Edited by author 05-05-2006 08:26 AM
Re: /m67 - I don't need to listen to Lisa De Witt's drivel, since the records of this board prove my words as correct.

For the benefit of readers, please see /m24 at this location to see an unprovoked attack against me for no reason at all. This was followed up by an immediate response from Lisa De Witt (/m25) although in fairness that wasn't against me. However, the both of them have been harassing me over everything I write.

As for my "invitation" here, see /m21 where a question was asked of me. I have a moral duty to reply. Since then I have been discussing Sai Baba, which is the purpose of this board. Nobody has a monopoly on any board, but the general principle of every board is to stay on-topic and discuss the subject. If people cannot discuss Sai Baba but can only abuse other posters, then they disqualify themselves and have no business here.

Extreme paranoia indeed. See the archives of this board (just a couple of pages back) and make up your own minds over who is here to discuss the issues about Sai Baba and who is here to disrupt the board. I think that the conclusion is clear.

Peace. Now no more distraction. We will discuss "Sathya Sai Baba - Who is he?" I'm looking forward to going through my large parcel of rare and unavailable pro-Sai books and videos in order to see how they compare and conflict with existing schemas within the Sai movement. I've already spotted a few anomalies through a random flicking of one book. It looks like Sai Baba is even more of a sexual deviant than we thought.

Now Sanjay the bully is exhibiting symptoms of extreme paranoia. Nobody came here to stalk you ya pervert. And nobody invited you here either idiot. You don't own this board. Funny that you always try to act like you have exclusive rights to every board about Sai Baba. You seem to forget that Freestone posted Joe's link to saisathyasai.com (on his blog and other places) LONG before you started trying to brag, like the immature wacko you are, about how much Freestone supposedly likes you better then Joe.

The only person here who has exhibited stalking behavior is YOU. Your digusting blog where you posted pics of women you followed around with disgusting comments about how "they want it" and other sexually perverted comments just shows how close you are to being a depraved psychopath who should be put in a jail cell.

Get a life dork.

Edited by author 05-04-2006 09:20 PM
Ugly Doug: I expect that all depends on whether what Peter says about Paul is true or not. :-)

Anyway, just to keep this on topic and not to get distracted by ill individuals because I completely agree that Sai Baba talks a lot of moronic drivel and continuous lies! :-) [I'm only quoting his words, ya know!]

I'd like to say that I received a very big parcel today, full of books and other Sai Baba resources. Some of these books are no longer available whereas others are a bit more rarer. I'm very excited about it because, at the very least, it looks like we may be able to present fresh material against Sai Baba and how/why he is such a fraud. :-)

For a start, there's a few photos of Krishna in one of the books. And by 'Krishna', I'm not referring to the Hindu God. ;-) Goodnight.

Lisa, nobody invited you here. You have come here simply for the purpose of stalking me. You have already proved that you have nothing to contribute to this discussion except to smear me, therefore your nonsense is unwanted here.

We all know what you are up to. You are famous for disrupting various Sai Baba discussion boards with your repetitive and unproven bollocks, and you are trying to replicate the same strategy here. You're fired.

Then stop replying dumbo, it would be refreshing to not have to listen to your moronic drivel and continuous lies.

Edited by author 05-04-2006 01:57 PM
Lisa, please continue to disqualify yourself from this forum by continuously going off-topic. Also, thanks a lot for finally proving that you are completely unable to defend Sai Baba and his very human foibles and cack-handed affairs. Nobody seems to be even slightly interested in what you have to say, lol. Thank you.

Re /m31: Joe108 (Gerald 'Joe' Moreno) is a liar. He claims that I only promote anti-Sai links on my "Sai Baba EXPOSED!" blog. This is wholly untrue; I have reference pro-Sai sites all over my blog, especially the places where I quote Sai Baba directly by providing a link to original discourse files hosted on official Sai websites.

At least I go to some lengths to track down Sai Baba's words directly to the record, which is something that most devotees never do and are simply content with paraphrasing him, their worshippable Lord and master in /m48 for an example.

I have no reason to reply to any of your nonsense since most of it is misrepresentations of the truth and lies. Saisathyasai.com is the bastard child of Moreno's love affair with the Internet.

Edited by author 05-04-2006 01:55 PM
Re /m60: "numerous confessions regarding his hatred of women."

Only yesterday, Lisa's pal Joe accused me of being a possible homosexual. Before that, he was practically claiming that I have sex with every woman who crosses my path. Even before that I supposedly hated women, and now I am a homosexual again?

Make up your minds, dweebs.

Have a look at a recent posting on my personal blog and see if that sounds like I hate women, ha ha ha ha ha ha! :-) Also, let's have a look at what Bhagavan Sri Bala Sai Baba has been up to lately. LOL!

As if my sexuality/alleged misogyny has anything to do with Sai Baba being a fraud anyway. We all know that he is a raging homosexual who offers Good Luck Chances (oral and anal sex) to "fortunate" devotees.

You'll have to forgive Sanjay Dadlani, aka Sai Baba Exposed, he continuously projects his own faults and shortcomings onto others and then lies about what others are doing in their personal lives. This is why Dadlani is known as a pathological liar. OTOH, Dadlani has admitted to downloading child porn, buying illegal drugs on the street, getting drunk in the computer room at Middlesex University, crying in his whiskey and other numerous confessions regarding his hatred of women on his Killuminati blog. He does however LOVE to drool over their boots as in boot fetish. This is all documented at saisathyasai.com.

You would think after more than four years of his constant driveling, Dadlani would learn to shut up but he never does. He is so starved for attention he will do ANYTHING to get it, even commit illegal acts and then confess them on the internet.

Pathetic innit?

Glad to see it all back up.

I should add that since Sai Baba gave the orders to quit smoking, drinking and meat-eating in November 1994, Lisa De Witt (and other devotees like her) have been continuously disobeying the orders of her guru for nearly twelve years.

Edited by author 05-04-2006 08:10 AM
Re /m55: >> Why doesn't Dadlani ever shut his mouth since we KNOW he can? And why didn't God on high come down and tell the whole world about the terroist attacks idiot? God you ask such infantile questions. <<


Considering that I wasn't the one who asked the question in the first place, but was merely replying to it, I shall take the high ground and ignore the hostile ad-hominem attack. We are not talking about God's intervention, because we are operating on Sai Baba's OWN words regarding his divinity. God does not need to come down from on high when he is apparently walking the earth.

Secondly, we can notice how Lisa De Witt has nothing to say about the pro-Sai propaganda effected by the topmost official in the Sai Org (Dr. Michael Goldstein) regarding his joyous celebrations that no Sai devotee died in the 9/11 tragedy. This is an incredibly biased and selective application of grief in arguably the most tragic terrorist incident in history. Neither she have anything to say in reply to my points about Sai Baba's own millenial plans got screwed up by this tragedy. It's funny to watch Sai Baba postpone his own self-appointed mission to save souls whenever it takes his fancy or when circumstances dictate otherwise.

>> The operative phrase in Sai Baba's quote is, "I ASK you..." He doesn't demand you follow his dictates like a cult leader. He ASKS you to follow his teachings because they are good for your health and spiritual growth. He nurtures you on the path to being a better person. <<

In this quote, perhaps he does. In other places he's pretty specific about his thoughts, explicitly stating that those who do not follow his teachings are not to be considered his devotees. Why else does he regularly complain that devotees do not follow his teachings even after so many years? Why else does he employ the well-known tactic of ignoring people until they carry out his orders, which stands as a de facto demand?

Just watch Lisa De Witt - the world's first non-practising devotee in action; She takes issue with my words on the plea of grammar. As if Sai Baba's simple message is not enough to be understood by even a 5-year-old, she wants to deconstruct the language and grammar in order to differentiate between a demand and a request. Fine, if it comes to this pathetic situation of grammatical emphasis, READ the following quote:

"Calling themselves Sai devotees or devotees of Raama and Krishna, they fatten on chicken. How can they be deemed Sai devotees? How can God accept such a person as a devotee? Therefore, whether they are devotees in India or outside, they should give up from this instant meat eating ... Therefore, those who aspire to become true devotees of God have to give up meat, liquor and smoking ... Today, as an offering to Svaami, give up meat eating, consuming liquor and smoking." - 69th Birthday Discourse, 23/11/1994.

Whoa, sounds like three demands to me! Looks like hypocritical devotees like Lisa De Witt will do and say anything to twist the words of their fraudulent master so that they can justify and carry on with their smoking, drinking and meat-eating (in violation of his orders).


>> The point is, Dadlani STILL does not understand this (aspect of unconditional love) after all these years yet tries to act like he is some expert. He, like most anti-Sais, spend hundereds of hours day in and day out speculating like the drama queens that they are, why Sai Baba does this or does that. What a total waste of time which just proves they do not have any experience with Sai Baba to speak of. <<

I have over a decade of experience as Sai Baba's devotee, and have made several trips (each one lasting a minimum of a month) to see him in India. I was also a member of the Bal Vikas (Sunday School) and the Youth Wing during my time as a Sai devotee. I have also met Sai Baba twice in group and personal interviews. What to speak of attending hundreds of darshans, sitting at plenty of his speeches, reading hundreds of his books, magazines, videos, etc.

If qualifications are needed for authoritativeness, I'd say that mine are ample enough.

>> Dadlani spends his time on these boards sucking every second of attention (rehashing the same garbage OVER and OVER again like he has alzheimer's disease) he can get from anyone he can get it from because he is an attention-starved little boy. Maybe we can find Dadlani a babysitter. He is BORING. <<

Another ad-hominem attack employed when the questions/points cannot be answered, what a surprise. If Lisa De Witt finds this discussion so boring then she is free to leave at any time. Goodness knows, nobody invited her here and her past conduct shows that she is here simply to stalk me. In which case, she secretly enjoys these discussions and is just making a show of abuse.

No wonder Sai Baba said that 90% of his devotees are deceitful and worse than stray dogs, we can see it right in front of us!

Why doesn't Dadlani ever shut his mouth since we KNOW he can? And why didn't God on high come down and tell the whole world about the terroist attacks idiot? God you ask such infantile questions.

The operative phrase in Sai Baba's quote is, "I ASK you..." He doesn't demand you follow his dictates like a cult leader. He ASKS you to follow his teachings because they are good for your health and spiritual growth. He nurtures you on the path to being a better person. He let's all kinds of people (yes, even backstabbing pathological liars like you, O'Clery, Larsson and Bailey) from all walks of life A CHANCE to change.

Yes, we can see how you continuously MANGLE peoples words Dadlani. The point is, Dadlani STILL does not understand this (aspect of unconditional love) after all these years yet tries to act like he is some expert. He, like most anti-Sais, spend hundereds of hours day in and day out speculating like the drama queens that they are, why Sai Baba does this or does that. What a total waste of time which just proves they do not have any experience with Sai Baba to speak of.

Dadlani spends his time on these boards sucking every second of attention (rehashing the same garbage OVER and OVER again like he has alzheimer's disease) he can get from anyone he can get it from because he is an attention-starved little boy. Maybe we can find Dadlani a babysitter. He is BORING.

Son of Man: "Why didn't Sai Baba, if he is God, warn the airport officals of 911?"

It is interesting to note that shortly after 9/11, Goldstein (the top man in the Western Sai Org.) gave a long lecture about how Sai Baba should be thanked for his love, compassion and mercy heaped upon his devotees, for none of his devotees had died in the 9/11 tragedy. Not only is this incredibly shocking and heartless but a tragedy in itself. These people only care about their own backs.

There's no proof at all that Sai Baba had anything to do with 9/11, but of course a number of "miracle" stories came out soon afterwards about Sai devotees had made "miraculous escapes" due to Sai Baba's loving grace. No real miracles obviously, just 'heartwarming stories'.

Regarding warning about 9/11 itself, you'd think that Sai Baba could have prevented it (if he was God) and softened bin Laden's heart, considering that 9/11 is a thorn in Sai Baba's side. Why? Because Sai Baba had predicted that the Golden Age (which he was born to bring about) would start in November 2000. Clearly this 9/11 tragedy about 10 months later seriously screwed up his plans for world domination. He certainly didn't see that coming! The Golden Age has been put on hold until 2007 according to Sai Baba's latest predictions. That is, if he can manage to get up from his luxury wheelchair.

hi all, as I have done a bit of "promotion" to get more blood, more new people to come here.
   what i am looking for is things about baba, pro and con. my own stance is that I, as a westerner, should stay far far away, but for an Indian??
--ify. my baba-o-meter has a reading of left of center, on the "negative" side.

please post more than one line rants about that you like or dislike baba!
As they say in college: "give examples"....ie, the meat eating post, futher down the list.

so i welcome any newcomers here......

freestone, the "list owner"!

Why didn't Sai Baba, if he is God, warn the airport officals of 911?

He is full of shit. He ain't no God, he's a liar.

I think Sai Baba is a great man of peace. But no-one would come to learn from him if he just taught that with his words and by his example. So he uses trickery and deception to suck in the crowds, and their willingness to believe makes them distort what he does into "miracles" and over-exaggerate the feats, especially as they pass from person to person. But he's not a bad man, and deserves to be listened to and learned from, when he talks about peace, and when he radiates his peace and love to all. He is a strong influence for good in the world.

If Sai Baba says he is the God of Moses, then he is the Devil incarnate:

This book, available free in electronic PDF format, exposes the deception of the Devil who exalts himself above all as God in the Old Testament:

http://home.comcast.net/~sonofman1/TheOldSerpentChained.pdf

Since Sai Baba loves to claim he is the God of Moses and the Jews, Jesus proves him a liar and a fraud. Have a look at the free eBook.

Edited by author 05-03-2006 10:59 AM
Look what I just found:

"Sathya Sai Baba has said 'I do not ask you to follow me, I ask you to follow what I say'."

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, more comedy from the man himself!

This smashes Lisa De Witt's erroneous conceptions. Now, according to Sai Baba himself, it is not necessary to be his devotee but it is necessary to follow his teachings. LOL!

Poor Lisa, now she will be forced to give up her cigarettes, alcohol and meat. She will also be required to speak sweetly and lovingly, and banish herself from the Internet (according to Sai Baba's desire).

Edited by author 05-03-2006 08:53 AM
>> I find it VERY hypocritical of Sanjay Dadlani to whine about Baba's teachings as if they are code a one must follow like a cult or one can not be "a devotee," <<


What a ridiculous and comical proposal. Is Lisa De Witt seriously suggesting that it is possible to be a "part" of a religious organisation and not follow their teachings? :-)

Well yes, many people try to cop out of their guilt just to make themselves feel better. We often hear people declaring themselves as non-practising Jews, non-practising Muslims, non-practising Buddhists and so forth. How hilarious! We have now come across the first non-practising Sai devotee! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Leave aside the fact that Sai Baba himself regularly complains of his devotees not following his teachings, even going so far as to say that those who don't follow his teachings are not his devotees. No wonder he says that 90% of his devotees are deceitful and worse than stray dogs, ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!


>> Then turn around and call it a cult! Make up your mind you confused bozo, which is it? <<

Show me where I said that the Sai Org. was a cult. I never said any such thing in my recent posts.


>> The facts of how Baba treats people do NOT match your constant childish whining and babbling rhetoric. <<


Well, in the case of meat-eating Hislop, Sai Baba clearly turned a blind eye to the disobedient behaviour of his "perfect disciple". That makes Sai Baba a double-hypocrite with double-standards; why insist that all of his devotees should give up eating meat while allowing people like Hislop and Phyliss Krystal to continue eating it?

As for my "childish rhetoric", I am only guilty of quoting Sai Baba himself, as well as official Sai literature. Perhaps they are the ones who are guilty of childish rhetoric. :-)


>> This shows that Dadlani, who claims to be such an expert on Sai Baba issues, doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. In Dadlani's cult-like mind the world is black and white and he spends time guilt-tripping and minding everyone else's business while the rot (sexual perversions and misogynistic tendencies) in his own back yard is stinking up the neighborhood.

As Dadlani's hate-on continues and the anti-Sai campaign falls apart while he tries with his drama queen whining to distract from the real issues, just know that the reckoning has begun.

Get some counseling bozo and learn to deal with your own pain so you can grow up and stop using your attention-seeking manipulations trying to inflict it upon others before you end up in jail. <<


Blah blah blah. Impotent threats from impotent people.

I just hope that everyone can see how Sai Baba's devotees continually fail to defend the hypocritical behaviour of their fraudulent and pervert master. They never fail to make an exhibition of themselves which is why they always end up with egg on their faces. :-)

I find it VERY hypocritical of Sanjay Dadlani to whine about Baba's teachings as if they are code a one must follow like a cult or one can not be "a devotee," Then turn around and call it a cult! Make up your mind you confused bozo, which is it? The facts of how Baba treats people do NOT match your constant childish whining and babbling rhetoric. This shows that Dadlani, who claims to be such an expert on Sai Baba issues, doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. In Dadlani's cult-like mind the world is black and white and he spends time guilt-tripping and minding everyone else's business while the rot (sexual perversions and misogynistic tendencies) in his own back yard is stinking up the neighborhood.

As Dadlani's hate-on continues and the anti-Sai campaign falls apart while he tries with his drama queen whining to distract from the real issues, just know that the reckoning has begun.

Get some counseling bozo and learn to deal with your own pain so you can grow up and stop using your attention-seeking manipulations trying to inflict it upon others before you end up in jail.

Edited by author 05-02-2006 01:35 PM
Hi Freestone,

>> maha baba was supposed to have at least one or two bad car accidents! <<

Let's not forget about the rotten teeth from years of cancerous betel chewing, two hip operations, eye operations, leg/feet injuries due to careless chariot driving, and the fact that he was blind in one eye for a couple of decades or so due to an accident with a blow-dryer.

Oh yes, the two hip operations were because he slipped on the soap in his bathroom. How careless. This is GOD! :-)

>> It is important to note that you do not have to be a "perfect person" in order to be guided and loved unconditionally by Sai Baba. Hislop was a meat eater <<

It is good that Sai devotees are now publicly acknowledging the fact that John S. Hislop, referred to by Sai Baba as his "greatest Western disciple" and publicly acknowleged in Sai literature as a "perfect disciple", ate meat until his dying day in full violation of Sai Baba's teachings.

Apart from the fact that they seem to acknowledge this only after I pointed it out, let's note that Hislop was in the #1 position of the Sai Organisation. One owuld expect him to be a perfect representative of Sai Baba's teachings, but obviously not. Apparently his last meal was a steak.


>> and Tigrett, who does not consider himself a devotee, was a partier who almost died twice as a result of living the fast life. Yet Sai Baba saved him both times. <<

And even despite that, Isaac Tigrett agrees that it is entirely possible that Sai Baba is a child sex abuser. Even worse, he doesn't seem to care about it much as it has nothing to do with his own (selfish) "spiritual" evolution.


>> The anti-Sais like to make a big deal out of Baba's comments about meaters eating, etc., but this is due to their own guilt about not being able to follow Sai Baba's teachings, otherwise they would not be trying to guilt-trip everyone else over their own inherent faults (and would learn to mind their own business, which they seem to have great difficulty doing). <<


I cannot speak for anyone else but I have nothing at all to feel guilty about. I have been a vegetarian for almost thirteen years (since 1993) and, funnily enough, it was spending 3 months at Sai Baba's ashram that influenced me to give up eating meat.

Guilt? It no longer matters if ex-devotees eat meat or not because they are not under Sai Baba's jurisdiction any longer. In contrast, Sai devotees are under said jurisdiction and are thus expected to follow all of Sai Baba's teachings in toto. What a surprise that they don't. And what a surprise that Sai Baba himself says that 90% of his devotees are deceitful and worse that stray dogs.


>> Bad habits, like alcoholism, excessive sugar consumption, meating, etc. lead to their own karmic repercussions and anyone who truly understands the spiritual path understands this. <<

If Sai devotees think that they understand the spiritual path and should do thing to avoid incurring negative karma, then why do they continue to eat meat, drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes?

hi all

I liked what you said, Sai Exposed, about the devotees are often so upset if one infers that baba is of flesh and blood, and oh heavens, he is old and has twiching hands!

I saw a phot, recently, of baba in a wheelchair! the article under the photo is telling how he mostly uses this chair to get out to the podium.

baba is???? be 80 years old, by western counts, on his 2006 birthday!

I live, myself, in a senior center Home, at 65 years old and there are many many men there who use walkers at 70 years old!

ya have to go back to the "owners manual", i guess, where Jesus either tells, or is written about, that he is "off flesh and blood", and that he suffers the "thorns of the flesh" just like any man does.

maha baba was supposed to have at least one or two bad car accidents!

Problem is, that the soul of Jesus would be the Christ, and we each see only a man! thus even if baba is an incarnation of an old old soul, the devotees only see that man standing there. they think literally, they being young souls.



yes that meat article that i found amazed me, i only pasted about 10% of it, if i cut and pasted the whole thing, it would have taken seval quick-topic pages just for it!


just LOOK at the interest in macrobiotic diets! many many people worship this diet *AS* a religion! but i liked what that critic says about this diet ! he says that this diet was the daily diet of any japanese peasent in the 1700s, or so, when the zen temples got organized, thus the daily diet of the monks.
thus if these temples were to have been established in the american 1900
south, then the devotees all over the world, today, woul IDOLIZE grits, cornbread, biscuits, greens and fried chicken!!

freestone

It is important to note that you do not have to be a "perfect person" in order to be guided and loved unconditionally by Sai Baba. Hislop was a meat eater and Tigrett, who does not consider himself a devotee, was a partier who almost died twice as a result of living the fast life. Yet Sai Baba saved him both times. The anti-Sais like to make a big deal out of Baba's comments about meaters eating, etc., but this is due to their own guilt about not being able to follow Sai Baba's teachings, otherwise they would not be trying to guilt-trip everyone else over their own inherent faults (and would learn to mind their own business, which they seem to have great difficulty doing).

Bad habits, like alcoholism, excessive sugar consumption, meating, etc. lead to their own karmic repercussions and anyone who truly understands the spiritual path understands this.

Just to refresh everyone about Sanjay Dadlani's (aka "Sai Baba Exposed") perversity, pathological lies and self-professed drunkeness, racism and hatred for women:

Sanjay Dadlani Exposed

Edited by author 05-01-2006 06:51 PM
Hello Freestone,

>> I was reminded today about meat eating and what baba says about it. what i *wanted*, but could not find in Google was the baba quote that i read once.
"ANYONE WHO EATS MEAT IS NOT A DEVOTEE OF MINE"!! I will have to ask someone else to look this up and to see if baba actually says this. but look at what i did find!.......... <<

I think that this is a great posting full of some good material which wil l come in handy. By the way you might be interested to see what I've already written on this matter:

The Meat Problem for Sai Baba's devotees

Addendum to 'The Meat Problem'

It appears that this might be the quote that you're looking for? :

"Calling themselves Sai devotees or devotees of Raama and Krishna, they fatten on chicken. How can they be deemed Sai devotees? How can God accept such a person as a devotee? Therefore, whether they are devotees in India or outside, they should give up from this instant meat eating ... Therefore, those who aspire to become true devotees of God have to give up meat, liquor and smoking ... Today, as an offering to Svaami, give up meat eating, consuming liquor and smoking." - 69th Birthday Discourse, 23/11/1994.

I think I have also read a more direct quote ("Meat-eaters are NOT my devotees!") somewhere in the Sanathana Sarathis, but I'll have to find it when I get some time. But here's what he has to say about his own devotees:

"Almost 90 percent of the so-called devotees are, in fact, deceitful ... Even the stray dogs scrounging around for something to eat are better than such fake devotees!" - 22nd July, 2002.

That doesn't really sound like the all-loving and all-compasionate God which we believed Sai Baba was.


>> somewhat more "off of the record" I would have to say that baba is a tea bag steeped in the hot water of the culture of india and 50% to 80% of what he says and belives in is Mother India Speaking! ... then he says that the internet is not worth anyone's time nor computers either! just what *would* he think of single batchelor meat eating, computer game [morrowind, neverwinter nights] me?! my point? that baba is for India, not for me or maybe many in the West, thus i am "vaccinated" from being a dovotee even if i wanted to be! I like my individualism, my western free will mind, thank you. <<


I think this is great. I'll admit that I'm also interested in the possibility of the cross-cultural effect that is taking place within the Sai Organisation. I remember David Bailey writing something similar in his book and I'd like to analyse it more. One typical example of the cross-cultural disruption in the Sai Organisation is in regards to the 'arathi' ceremony. This ceremony (in Indian culture) is well known as taking place at the conclusion of any general type of religious rite, though not always. Even so, and supposedly on Sai Bba's approval, this rite does not have to be followed in the Western countries of the Sai Org. because it might offend Western sensibilities.

Fair enough, given that most Sai centres in the West are more likely to be comprised of Western devotees but the fact is that many centres do have Indian devotees whose own sensibilities may get offended. They may take offense that the "rule" of the arathi ceremony is not taking place and that this constitutes disrespect and disobedience of Sai Baba. This could end up in all-Indian centres and all-Western, all-Italian, all-Spanish centres, the type of division that is happening even now. This is such a huge topic, I could talk for hours about this, ha ha!

And then as if that wasn't enough, allowing the foregoing of arathi ceremonies in the West stands at odds with Sai Baba's own self-appointed mission to revive Vedic culture and the re-establishment of (Sanathana) Dharma a.k.a. Hinduism! Now how can it be possible to revive a Vedic culture (that includes those "quaint" arathi rituals) while being careful not to offend/turn off Western sensibilities?

It just won't work. Sai Baba's mission will be a failure.

>> freestone's baba-o-meter unoficially is registering to the left of the 50% Reading, on the Dial, even if baba is OK and not the "pervert" that is inferred to him being!] registers way lefward on the "anti" side, as even my lung damage, those 20 days in the hospital, in 1993, cannot take for even a few minutes, INCENSE in any form or amount!! thus I am "anti" by default, even before I were to even to begin to investigate him. but just because i cannot tolerate the hot hot mexican foods, i do not put down mexican foods for everyone!! just for me, at least, my OWN baba-meter
is on the negative side of the middle! <<

That's good to hear. :-)

I quite admire that actually, not following Sai Baba for one's own personal reasons instead of this or that. That's exactly why I am an ex-devotee, because I discovered for myself why it would not be possible to continue believing in something which I consider to be a farce and a charade. It's ironic that Sai Baba often advises people to indulge in discrimination and critical thinking; doing just this helped me to realise that Sai Baba is not who he says he is. But anyway, I liked reading your reasons. :-)

hi all....

I was reminded today about meat eating and what baba says about it.

what i *wanted*, but could not find in Google was the baba quote that i read once.

"ANYONE WHO EATS MEAT IS NOT A DEVOTEE OF MINE"!!

I will have to ask someone else to look this up and to see if baba actually says this.

but look at what i did find!..........


[quote]
The said Sai Baba insists that all devotees (followers of Sai Baba) be vegetarian at least and vegan vegetarian at best. His claim is that one is purified by doing so, that meat is impure and corrupting.
[/quote]

from baba himslef
[quote]
Today as an offering to Swami, give up meat eating, consuming liquor and smoking. By renouncing these three, you will benefit yourselves as well as society and the nation. If you wish to carry out Swami's aim, renounce from this moment itself these three bad practices. Do not put it off to tomorrow. Take the resolve from this moment. Expecting that you will carry out Swami's wish and thereby promote the well being of your family and the nation, I bless all of you.

Divine Discourse: November 23, 1994
[/quote]

and....
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:5dsfZT...gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=22

[this is a long long one, folks, only 10% of the page is below, this is what baba thinks about food and health!


ooooh BOY!!
[quote]

  


Excessive and frequent consumption of milk and its products awakens and aggravates the rajasic and tamasic qualities in man. A diet extra rich in milk, curds and ghee cannot be called satwic because it awakens the passionate nature in man and also promotes heart and other diseases. We must not forget that we absorb an incorporeal type of food through the other sense organs as well.

“Foods which increase life, purity, strength, health, joy and cheerfulness, which is oleaginous and savoury, substantial and agreeable, are dear to the satwic people.” Gita chapter 17, verse 8


 
   
Tamasic Foods
All stale, tasteless, putrid foods, like pickles, cheese, all alcoholic beverages, sedative drugs, tobacco, dagga, cocaine, meat, fish, eggs and all foods that slow you down physically and mentally
 
 




Process of Cooking

The food should not be overheated, or over cooked, low temperature, slow cooking is safer and more nutritious, also at least 50% of the food should be raw, like salads, sprouts, fruit, nuts and certain raw vegetables. Stir fry is also better than fully cooked foods.

Ingredients

Excess of oil, butter, cream should be avoided, for a balanced diet. Care should be taken to consume only 1500 to 2000 calories per day, divided so that only 50 grams of protein are consumed (excess protein cannot be stored so it is passed out in the urine along with extra calcium resulting in osteoporosis – thinning of your bones) the remaining 1300 to 1800 calories should be mainly carbohydrate with a minimum of fat which should be derived from vegetables like olive oil, avacado, nuts, and seeds. Hydrogenated fats and oils are harmful.

.

Extracts from Gita Vahini, Chapter 26

“Krishna ! You said that the Daivic and Ausuric natures of man are the consequences of acts and feelings that had impact on the individual in previous births. Since it is impossible to escape from such impacts, what is the fate of those who are condemned to carry this burden with them? Or can their consequences be mitigated? If such exist, please tell me about them so that I could save myself thereby.” Arjuna asked thus in order to draw out from the Lord the remedy for all mankind.

Krishna gave an immediate answer. There are three types of Gunas, sathwic, rajasic and thamasic. They are based on the anthahkarana, the inner consciousness. That too is dependent on the intake of food. You are what you feed on, your activities shape your nature. So at least in this birth, by regulating food and activity (aahaara and vihara) man can overcome the Aasuric tendencies that tend to prevail upon him. He can promote sathwic tendencies through planned self-effort”. This advice was tendered lovingly by the Lord to the eager inquirer, Arjuna.

“Rajasic food is the opposite of the Sathwic. It is too salty, too sweet, too hot, too sour, and too odorous. Such food excites and intoxicates.

“

The cause of all conflicts in the world is the food one eats, some eat sathwic, others rajasic and tamasic foods, because they eat food in these 3 different denominations, they have 3 different types of behaviour. Because of what they finally become, difference of opinion and conflicts arise.

There can never be a bond of understanding between persons who eat satwic food and another who eats rajasic foods. Maybe for a short while they will be friends, but eventually they will drift apart. There can be a lasting friendship between 2 people who eat satwic food; likewise 2 people who eat rajasic foods can strike a bond of friendship, however eventually rajasic people will disagree. “if you want to strike a bond of friendship with God your thoughts must be such that it is completely divine. God is satwic in nature. If you wish to strike a bond of friendship with God, your behaviour must reflect only satwic qualities.”

“When we sit down to eat food, we feel light and energetic. When we complete our meal we must also feel light and energetic. So sathwic foods are all those foods which make us light, gives you sufficient energy and removes laziness. As far as possible we must cook food in oil, not in fat (cold pressed olive oil seems to be the best).

True sadhakas must eat only once a day. A person who eats twice a day is a bhogi or a man of pleasure and a person who eats 3 times a day is a rogi or a sick person.

“Meat develops the demonic quality in you and food which is excessively hot or even sour can be likened to meat and wine. Pickles are literally soaked in salt and an excess of salt is worse than wine.” The above foods promote the quality of jealousy in you and jealousy is the product of the 6 bad qualities present in everyone.

An excess in salt and meat gives you the quality of jealousy.

“The first step in the transformation of the mind is do not criticize or harm others. Criticizing others ia a sin of great magnitude. If you want to attain moksha you have to transform the mind and this can only take place when you partake of a satwic diet. Satwic diet purifies your thoughts and helps to focus your thinking. Smoking destroys the kundalini shakthi that you possess. Smoking also destroys the spiritual vibrations in your surroundings.

Extract from Sandeha Nivarini, page 43

“Try to prevent the 5 sins that the body commits; killing, adultery, theft, drinking intoxicants and eating of flesh. It is a great help for the highest life if these also are kept as far away as possible.”

In an interview with a strict vegetarian Swami told him that although he was a vegetarian he was not taking in satwic food at all. Swami told him not to have highly spiced pickles, garlic and onions.


Summer Course, 1979, page 91

“One who controls and regulates the actions of others is called YAMA. One who controls himself and regulates his own actions possesses the quality of SAMYAMA. There should be discipline and regulation in life in accordance with self-imposed constraints. These self-imposed constraints constitute the TAPAS of an individual. An unrestrained life is an immoral life. A spiritual aspirant need not live in monastic isolation. He should practice universal compassion, which is nothing but an intense desire for the welfare of the entire humanity. FOOD plays an important part in the cultivation of universal compassion. Satwic food enables a Sadhaka to apprehend the omnipresent reality of Divinity. Satwic food is conducive to the progressive attainment of the four states of spirituality, viz.

 

The solution:

“Uncooked food, nuts and fruit, germinating pulses are the best. Use these at least one meal, say, for the dinner at night, this will ensure long life.” SS Speaks Vol, 15, page 115


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Rajasic And Tamasic Foods - The Danger

Protein

The human body cannot store protein.

Average human of 70 kg weight only needs 50gm protein per day.

Animal protein is dangerous because some of its amino acids are aromatic (ring structures are in themselves carcinogenic) and these phenol or cresol rings have to be broken down into ammonia, urea and uric acid (ammonia is a potent promotor of cell proliferation and consequently cancer especially in the colon)

We only have a certain amount of enzymes and consequently a fair percentage of a high protein meal ends up in the colon, where it is digested by bacteria and the ammonia, urea, etc. promote cell growth, are toxic, causes DNA changes and eventually cancer.

Excess protein is digested and stored as glycogen in the liver or as fat droplets in fat cells, excess protein also inhibits calcium absorption.
Two times increase in protein intake causes 50% increase in calcium excretion.

If you eat 3 types of grain at different times of the day or a grain and a legume per meal, eg chick peas and rice, this is all the protein you need. The meal must be fully integrated. Fiber is both soluble and non-soluble. These help to prevent various colonic diseases. Whole grain is not as good as ground grain as it goes right through undigested, so it only plays a partial role in digestion. Integrated, by this I mean that all components of the ground grain must be added simultaneously in the preparation of the meal (eg. Stone ground flour). It is useless to add fiber later, etc. Please note that although plants do not produce cholesterol, the surface of all grain have cholesterol binding sites.
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Rajasic And Tamasic Foods - The Danger

Cancer

“The present fertilizers are full of defects. As a result you find an increase in the number of concern cases and heart complaints. To this day, there has been no doctor who has come up with a cure for cancer. What is the cause of cancer? Somebody might say eating betel leaf gives you cancer. A few others say cancer is the direct result of smoking beedies and cigarettes. And some might say that the air around you is polluted so you get cancer. All said and done, what you must understand is, to a limited extent, these factors might be contributing in a small way. But they are not the primary cause of cancer. The main cause of cancer is sugar. In order to produce commercial sugar, a lot of chemicals such as powered bone are used in the process. And this substance, as you ingest the sugar, might become lodged in any part of the body and create problems.” Know Thy Self, Sathya Sai Baba, 10 August 1993, Page 149



Anticancer promoters : Fiber, vitamin A, C, E (prevents oxidation of fat)
Cancer is on the increase in countries where there is high intake of animal fat like Netherlands, Denmark, UK, Canada, New Zealand, Switzerland, Ireland, US, Belgium, Australia. South Africa is also on the way up because of high fat intake. The problem with saturated fats is that it promotes ischeamic heart and cerebral disease. If you have high blood pressure you have 2.2. times higher risk of getting a heart attack. A smoker has 1.9 times higher risk of a heart attack. If you have high cholesterol there is 1.75 times higher risk of a heart attack. If you combine the above 3 factors operating simultaneously there is an 8.5 times higher risk of a heart attack. Males between 25-55 years have a 4 times higher risk than females. Vegetarians have a very low risk provided the rest of their life style like alcohol, smoking, and stress are absent or low. Vegans have the lowest incidence, provided other risk factors are absent.


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Rajasic And Tamasic Foods - The Danger

 

Hard cheese has already been fully digested by bacteria, it cannot be digested any further by the human enzyme system, so a golden rule should, if it cannot rot, it is not fit for human consumption.




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Rajasic And Tamasic Foods - The Danger

Meat

“It is significant that those who live on vegetarian food are less prone to diseases while meat eaters are subject to various diseases. Man should consume what is in accord with the needs of the human body. Doctors speak about proteins. Are there not proteins in vegetables, milk, and curds and pulses? Non-vegetarian food not only affects the body but also the mind. Food, Head, God, these three are inter-related. By consuming animal food, animal tendencies are aroused. As is your food, so are your thoughts.” SS Speaks, Vol 23, page 81
 [/quote]


I am reminded of a couple that I knew, in 1970s Rochester new york. the Zen center was active then, as well as a number of other eastern guru-driven groups.
One night as I visited their apartment, she gave to me an announcement that they were going to go to the evening, daily, 7 PM meditation service and she said that both of them were only going for the meditation and NOT for any of the belief systems or the "styles of behavior that the devotees did.

So for my year I came to see them about once a month, or so. I watched an, to me, an AMAZING thing! slowly, ever so slowly, both of them began to wear orange or saffron clothes! slowly, if i saw them eating a meal, there was brown rice in it.
by the end of that year they were 100% devotees, mind body and soul!

down the posts, a few posts back, "Exposed" and others, I siad that i was "neutral", offically.


hoooooooever!!

---somewhat more "off of the record" I would have to say that baba is a tea bag steeped in the hot water of the culture of india and 50% to 80% of what he says and belives in is Mother India Speaking!
Thus...yet another small topic...I have read of how he does, or used to, marry 5,000 couples in one ceremony and that he has said that the most important worldly act that one can ever ever do is to marry!

then he says that the internet is not worth anyone's time nor computers either!

just what *would* he think of single batchelor meat eating, computer game
[morrowind, neverwinter nights] me?!

my point?
--that baba is for India, not for me or maybe many in the West, thus i am "vaccinated" from being a dovotee even if i wanted to be!
I like my individualism, my western free will mind, thank you.

[freestone's baba-o-meter unoficially is registering to the left of the 50%
Reading, on the Dial, even if baba is OK and not the "pervert" that is inferred to him being!]
registers way lefward on the "anti" side, as even my lung damage, those 20 days in the hospital, in 1993, cannot take for even a few minutes, INCENSE in any form or amount!!
thus I am "anti" by default, even before I were to even to begin to investigate him.

but just because i cannot tolerate the hot hot mexican foods, i do not put down mexican foods for everyone!! just for me, at least, my OWN baba-meter
is on the negative side of the middle!

freestone

Edited by author 05-01-2006 05:27 PM
>> Hey Sanjay, YOU are the one who keeps trying to change the subject with your abusive ad hominem attacks and lies. <<


*sigh*

I'm actually quite busy these days with some serious personal projects going on and yet again I have to tiredly point out that the subject of this board is "Sathya Sai Baba - who is he?" Just take a look at /m24 , it shows proof of how how Sai Baba's defenders perniciously stalk people all over the Net and infecting everyone with their oft-refuted propaganda. They always cast the first stone and then pretend to look innocent.

It looks like Pinky just couldn't help writing more irrelevant and unproven nonsense that is against the topic of this board. I'll expect Perky to come along in a matter of minutes.

If you two find yourselves pathologically unable to hold a conversation or a discussion - as your online record shows - please leave. Sai devotees/admirers have a long and sordid history of driving discussion forums off the rails and this is just the latest episode. If you cannot bring yourselves to discuss the reality of Sai Baba the fraud guru, go away and stop stalking me. Creeps.

Hey Sanjay, YOU are the one who keeps trying to change the subject with your abusive ad hominem attacks and lies.

The ONLY thing the record shows is that Sanjay Dadlani aka Sai Baba Exposed aka saiexposed420 is a pathological liar who admitted to downloading child porn while falsely claiming he worked for the IWF. His lies are clearly documented on saisathyasai.com yet the mental case continues to pretend he has not been exposed for the liar that he is. As you can see, Sanjay Dadlani has been abusing people in yahoogroups with his ultra foul mouth since he joined Khorramshahgol's yahoogroup in approx. 2000. Even the anti-Sais complained about his lies and abusive behavior. The misogynistic streetbitches blog (Remember, "They want it" Sanjay?) was his latest fiasco and one does have to wonder how long it will be before Sanjay is put in a jail cell for his harassing tactics which obviously are not confined to the internet.

>>I see Dadlaniexposed is still trying to distract from the issues. <<

The issue here is "Sathya Sai Baba - Who is he?" Therefore this site is not about Dadlaniexposed, DeWittexposed, Morenoexposed or anyone else, although there is plenty to expose about the skullduggery of the pro-Sais.

As I noted earlier, pro-Sais seem to have a very troublesome habit of infesting every discussion board that mentions the name of the darkened guru and post irrelevant garbage that means nothing. This is why the other two Quicktopic boards were shut down, because they were spammed relentlessly to death. If this goes on any longer, then it looks like this might be the third Quicktopic board to die at the hands od devious Sai devotees. I hope that will not be the case.

>>When I first started researching Dadlani et al's claims, I was led to believe by Dadlani, van der Sandt, Hanisch and others that there were all these little boys who had been molested by Sai Baba but that the Indian government would do nothing about it. I told them that I refused to traumatise children further by interrogating them and that a professional should be interviewing the children if this were in fact true. <<

There's no record of such wild claims. The record actually shows Lisa De Witt abusing Dadlani et al in vile terms and slanderous ripostes.


>> Upon closer examination of their claims I realized almost ALL of the accusers were ADULTS over 18 years of age at the time they claim they were abused, including Hans de Kraker, who was in his twenties when he claims Sai Baba abused him. At that point I saw that I was dealing with people who were not being very truthful and none of their stories were adding up. I also felt I was dealing with a possible criminal operation after experiencing their continual harassment and then finding Dadlani on a Disney porn site, two Jesus porn sites and having been informed by a friend who used to be a NSA employee that they usually pass child porn on those porn sites that are called "biblical" sites. <<


Witness Lisa De Witt's slander in action! It is beyond me to note the amazing number of times that this incredibly ridiculous story has been refuted, yet Lisa De Witt still shamelessly repeats it as if it were actual fact, what to speak of actually proving any of these child-porn claims! Despite what her "NSA friend" (yeah right) told her, Lisa De Witt is on record as stating that she could find no such material in said groups, yet this doesn't stop her from repeating her scandalous lies time and time again. By way of contrast, Lisa De Witt was reportedly found on an alt.sex.support.boy-lovers site, but you don't find anyone bringing this up repeatedly when our presence here requires critically analysing Sai Baba.


>> Dadlani is being very disingenous as I asked the anti-Sais several times to give me information about de Kraker and others, including any corroborative witnesses who could verify their claims. Whenever the anti-Sais cannot come up with the answers or proof they are asked for, they consistently attack the person asking for proof. <<

The records show that it is Lisa De Witt who is being disingenuous, not I. The record is there, for all the public to see. Whatever I have said in my previous posts is proved by the record, and nothing can deny that fact. Sorry. :-)


>> As you can see, this is their primary tactic. Here it is, almost four years later and still they cannot come up with the name of the group leader that de Kraker claims he told his story to. I was informed by another source that de Kraker was booted out of the ashram after being part of a group who started spreading stories about Sai Baba, yet de Kraker failed to mention this very important detail in his online statement. <<

And four years ago, Lisa was given De Kraker's personal email address (several times actually) so that she could contact him to clarify her confusion. She never did so. Three guesses why.

When they come out with such fanciful theories about Christian Fundamentalism as the heart of the Anti-Sai Agenda, it's no wonder that they don't care much for truth and clarification! :-)


>> The accusers do not want to answer questions which are inconvenient. They only want to recruit those into their group who will go along with their smear campaign. <<

Yet again, the record has shown that anti-Sais have answered all questions that are able to be answered. The same does not hold true for pro-Sais, whose record shows a shocking disparity whenever they are questioned about Sai Baba and his antics.

I wonder where Lisa De Witt is coming out with all this wrong information when the public record clearly contradicts her words.


>> Dadlani is not interested in the "truth". He, like almost all the anti-Sais, is only interested in being right, regardless of what the truth is. <<


The truth, at the end of the day, is that Sai Baba is not God when he claims to be such. At the end of the day, this is the conclusion that we all arrive at. When you accept that Sai Baba is not God, you will then be forced to de facto admit that he is a fraud for stating such for so many years with absolute impunity.


>> Sai Baba has an exemplary record as a spiritual leader. <<


Not really. He has been criticised by his own villagers since the 1940s onwards.


>> He is monitored day in and day out and there are people around him twenty four hours a day. His miracles have been documented by more reputable sources, including the Indian government, than any other figure in history. <<


More repetitive and oft-refuted propaganda. Fo the record, Jesus Christ is much more famous than Sai Baba and thus defeats him in a casual historical analysis.


>> Since the campaign against Sai Baba has now expanded to include his devotees as well as the Indian government, one can only ask why the accusers just can't seem to come up with the proof that they need.
Not ONE corroborative witness has stood by any of the accusers. The probablility of this occurrence in the case of a REAL sexual assault is very slim, especally considering how thin the curtain is between the interview rooms. Sexual crimes are so vile and humiliating, it is hard to believe that the accusers waited so many years to decide to complain and that no one on the other side of the curtain heard anything.

The burden of proof is on the accusers who are making themselves look more and more suspicious by not filing charges while they enable those like Dadlani to continue to harass and berate those who are seeking to protect the rights of the accuser as well as the accused. <<

This is just oft-repeated and oft-refuted stuff that has been answered countless times before with no response by pro-Sais, therefore I'm not going to spend any further time flogging dead horses when there is much more new ground to cover.

Freestone, I'd appreciate it very much if you could step in here with a message for the pro-Sais to pipe down with their propaganda and ad-hominem tactics of argument. I don't believe that any mature and fruitful discussion can take place when the same old tired stuff is repeated againd and again with no respite. This is one of the problems that caused the other two Quicktopic boards to die, because of the misbehaviour of pro-Sai devotees and admirers. I'd also appreciate it if discussions were limited to on-topic subjects rather than wild character assassination that has nothing to do with the topic of this board. Thank you.

I see Dadlaniexposed is still trying to distract from the issues. When I first started researching Dadlani et al's claims, I was led to believe by Dadlani, van der Sandt, Hanisch and others that there were all these little boys who had been molested by Sai Baba but that the Indian government would do nothing about it.
I told them that I refused to traumatise children further by interrogating them and that a professional should be interviewing the children if this were in fact true.

Upon closer examination of their claims I realized almost ALL of the accusers were ADULTS over 18 years of age at the time they claim they were abused, including Hans de Kraker, who was in his twenties when he claims Sai Baba abused him. At that point I saw that I was dealing with people who were not being very truthful and none of their stories were adding up. I also felt I was dealing with a possible criminal operation after experiencing their continual harassment and then finding Dadlani on a Disney porn site, two Jesus porn sites and having been informed by a friend who used to be a NSA employee that they usually pass child porn on those porn sites that are called "biblical" sites. Dadlani is being very disingenous as I asked the anti-Sais several times to give me information about de Kraker and others, including any corroborative witnesses who could verify their claims. Whenever the anti-Sais cannot come up with the answers or proof they are asked for, they consistently attack the person asking for proof. As you can see, this is their primary tactic. Here it is, almost four years later and still they cannot come up with the name of the group leader that de Kraker claims he told his story to. I was informed by another source that de Kraker was booted out of the ashram after being part of a group who started spreading stories about Sai Baba, yet de Kraker failed to mention this very important detail in his online statement.

The accusers do not want to answer questions which are inconvenient. They only want to recruit those into their group who will go along with their smear campaign. Dadlani is not interested in the "truth". He, like almost all the anti-Sais, is only interested in being right, regardless of what the truth is.

Sai Baba has an exemplary record as a spiritual leader. He is monitored day in and day out and there are people around him twenty four hours a day. His miracles have been documented by more reputable sources, including the Indian government, than any other figure in history. Since the campaign against Sai Baba has now expanded to include his devotees as well as the Indian government, one can only ask why the accusers just can't seem to come up with the proof that they need.
Not ONE corroborative witness has stood by any of the accusers. The probablility of this occurrence in the case of a REAL sexual assault is very slim, especally considering how thin the curtain is between the interview rooms. Sexual crimes are so vile and humiliating, it is hard to believe that the accusers waited so many years to decide to complain and that no one on the other side of the curtain heard anything.

The burden of proof is on the accusers who are making themselves look more and more suspicious by not filing charges while they enable those like Dadlani to continue to harass and berate those who are seeking to protect the rights of the accuser as well as the accused.

Edited by author 04-30-2006 11:01 PM
Well well, looks like Pinky and Perky are back on their campaign of defamation and slander, which I shall prove when the time comes. In the meantime, it's funny to see them skulking around the Net as a hilarious double act. I already said that I'm not interested in discussing points of their that are largely irrelevant to the Sai Baba controversy, but sometimes their lies just need to be exposed.

Regarding Moreno, his spurious claims that I do not provide examples of his slander and defamation campaign against me is because they are irrelevant to the topic of this board. the topic of this board is "Sathya Sai Baba - who is he?", and consequently his vitriol is by definition irrelevant here. Clearly, as I have already noted, he has nothing to contribute to the larger topic of Sai Baba.

As for his other spurious claim about my deleting his comments from my blog, he never posted a comment. At least, nothing substantial except to post a link back to his own website. At the time I clearly said thatI would not allow just plain link advertising and that substantial comments should be made. Moreno is completely free to comment on any of my blog postings just as long as he has something substantial to say instead of just posting a link back to his site. I already know that he and his two companions have posted anonymous comments at my blog.

Christian Fundamentalism - It looks like Moreno has shot himself in the foot here. According to his own screencaptures, it appears that Exbaba temporarily posted a link/banner for the purposes of offering recovery counselling to anybody (especially ex-devotees) who might want to make use of it. There is nothing surprising about this, recovery and counselling options have been listed several times in ExBaba's history, and many anti-Sai/ex-devotees are registered therapists and counsellors who are willing to offer their services to people who feel disillusioned by Sai Baba's fraudulence.
So what if the organisation in question has a Christian outlook? The way Moreno makes it sound is as if there is a wholesale campaign to convert people to Christianity or something. This is just one more example of how he overinflates minor things to suit his own duplicituous agenda. It's kind of like the way he tries to say that a Muslim (like Afshin Khorramshahgol, who was molested by Sai Baba) is a Fundamentalist Christian because he was educated at a "Christian" school!

He then complaisn that neither myself nor Conny Larsson provide links to his site on our sites. I cannot speak for Larsson but I can say that I don't link to him for the very same reason he doesn't link to my site. :-) The main difference is that I am open and honest about it, instead of constructing a lie (since December 8th, 2004) about being blocked from linking. :-) I also quote to Exbaba/Saiguru articles because they have something I need to reference. I'm afraid that Moreno's articles do not have quite the same reliability.

Enough now, lest we descend into total irrelevance. :-) He finishes off with the typical baseless slander that he is well known for, and which has been refuted already countless times. As I've already noted, there is nothing we can expect from this fellow in terms of a constructive and meaningful discussion. For one thing, he is not a devotee or an ex-devotee of Sai Baba, and he has also received an oiling from Sai Baba, which happens to be a common feature of Sai Baba's molestations.

--

As for Lisa De Witt, she seems to be cutting and pasting and posting and reposting the same thing wherever she goes. Despite her words, she has not investigated the allegations personally. She is on record demanding the personal contact details of Hans De Kraker and, even when all of the details were handed to her on a plate, she never contacted him. Ditto for other molestees, especially Afshin Khorramshahgol. The record also shows that she spent quite a bit of time abusing Afshin, but failed to discuss any of the "important contradictions" that she claims to have found.

After spending nearly six years acquainted with the Sai Baba controversy on both sides of the debate, I can testify that the pro-Sai side are by far the most delinquent. The shallowness of their arguments say it all: high on ad-hominem attacks, extremely low on factual defence of Sathya Sai Baba. That is why I have decided not to spend any needless time directly engaging with these people except to refute the hilarious and comedic arguments they put across. They're not so squeaky-clean either. Since they love to point out (imagined) faults in other people, I can just as easily do the same with their own documented perversions. There is no need to do so because that is not the purpose of this board, so they would do well to stay relevant or else stop participating here. Their recent double-act of posting here adds more fuel to the record of their long history of infecting wherever they go with their poisonous virus of slander and oft-refuted lies.

Hello Freestone, I agree with much of what you say. Just wanted to comment on the following points you made:

>> well, maybe it is time for me to take off a layer of "gloves" and write a bit about myself!

I essentually side with both sides of the baba controversy! I began this
forum mostly to feel out what people today think and feel about baba.

the "real" baba forums seem to be filled with young devotees that are as fervently pro-baba that they are as "fundamentalist" as any chrasmic christian at their worst! they do not wanna hear a bit about their god
might also have a bowel movement once a day or so!! kill ya for mentioning anything anti-baba. <<


You are right about this. It has also been my experience to receive the foulest of abuse simply for pointing out something "negative" about Sai Baba that is plain as day for all to see. For example, if I point out the fact that Sai Baba is starting to show symptoms of Parkinson's Disease - based on eyewitness reports by devotees as well as official ashram video evidence - I'll immediately get a long and abusive email about how I bring God down to my human level by pointing out material faults in him, and also the old and tired rebuttal about how God suffers human ills when he takes a human form.

As far as I have seen, those Sai devotees/admirers who take it upon themselves to defend Sai Baba do not appear to show even a pinch of the love and compassion that Sai devotees are supposedly well-known for. It would be something if I was a completely ordinary bystander or something, but the fact that I am an ex-devotee really seems to get their goat.


>> and the anti-baba people often are so full of anger, even if rightiously so.

me?
I would not go to India of my own free will, I cannot even go to church comfortably, here in America! I do not believe in Gurus or people who tell you how to live your life.

in fact, my own philosophy runs a bit like this: how in heaven or hell's name can you become saved unless there is a you there to become saved with?! how can you transcend your ego unless you first have an ego?! <<


This is actually a very good question, and it is something that I like to think about in terms of Sai Baba's philosophy/theology. Also, you might be interested to know that other spiritual teachers hold a very different view from Sai Baba. One of the things that makes us "us" is our ego, and to vanguish it as Sai Baba tells us to is tantamount to committing spiritual suicide.

Also, have you noticed how Sai Baba has double-talk: on one hand he exhorts his devotees to be as humble and "lowly" as possible, and the next minute he tells them that they are verily God on earth (except that they just don't know it yet, the twits!). What's a sadhaka to do? How is he supposed to practise humility while walking aorund thinking that he is really God?

This and many other cases of hilarity are just a few reasons why Sai Baba is not taken very seriously amongst the orthodoxy of India's spiritual leaders. I'd suggest that a large part of his appeal is based solely on his "2miracles" and the wide reports of them, most of which have been thoroughly debunked anyway.


>> One of my many hobbies is to try to figure out the motivations of people and to see how and why people follow masters and cults.

I am finding reality to be a strange and sticky thing, as i get ever the older. <<


Although I am relatively tender years I must admit that I am following along the same lines myself, especially about the reasons why people feel the need to join cults. It's one of the reasons why I went back to University to study a BSc. Psychology.


>> the oringinal sin.....as i see it...is that people pass their shit to thier kids and then they kids grow up and pass it on to theirs! <<

Richard Dawkins, who is a fervent atheist and a popular science writer, says the same thing and even postulates biological theoris for this concept.


>> i read that 80% of battered kids will grow up to batter their kids!!
[nievely i would have thought the opposite!!]
probably many of the baba devoteess and the anti-devotees have had terrible childhoods! <<


I can't say that I've had a terrible childhood, but I will say that I came to Sai Baba at a time in my life when I was in great spiritual "need". He seemed to fill in all the gaps at that time so...


>> so i am not a devotee of baba. i just started this forum, as i say above, to get a "core sample" of the present day feelings pro and con about baba.

I once, at a university town, went to a baba group meeting only to incur the authoitativeness of the leader, a apparently typical Indian man who was
very powerful and overbearing, not to my taste at all. end of that.

thus i like individualism. <<

I quite agree. I read your earlier messages and I'm glad to see that you've "officially" taken a neutral position. It seems to me that truth can be best gleaned from an impartial standpoint. That's one of the reason why, despite the fact that I am a practitioner of Gaudiya Vaishnavism in my private spirituality, I try not to let it colour my views on Sai Baba and I comment on Sai Baba's philosophy through an "impartial" philosophical standpoint using mutually-acceptable sources. I sometimes make reference to GV on occsion when the need arises, but not often.

Sanjay can spew his toxic waste as a distraction until he is a curmudgeon as old as Priddy, O'Clery, Larsson, et al but the simple fact of the matter is that the anti-Sais have ZERO credibility. Why? Because even though they claim to have "hundreds" (O'Clery claimed thousands) of alleged sexual abuse victims, they cannot come up with even ONE credible corroborative witness. NOT ONE! The only alleged victim who claims to have told someone he was molested by Sai Baba directly after he came out of the interview room was Keith Ord who was in his mid-twenties at the time (1990). Alexandra Nagel claims he told her, yet Ord does not even mention Nagel in his online statement. And Nagel refers to Keith as "K" in her diary as if she is trying to hide Keith's identity for some reason. And making matters even more dubious, it turns out that Joe Moreno was at the ashram at the same time Keith alleges he was mishandled by Sai Baba and talked to Keith in depth about his interviews. During those discussions, Joe says Keith did not mention anything about being molested. In 1993, Keith Ord did an interview with a Dutch journalist (article posted on exbaba.com Dutch site) and told him Sai Baba's genitalia morphed supernaturally from male to female!

Yet the anti-Sais still insist to this day that Keith Ord and all alleged victims are "credible," even though their stories are riddled with these kinds of contradictions.
Yes, in EVERY case that I have researched I have found these type of story anomalies. It is as if each alleged victim is dangling a carrot in front of you saying, "Believe me because I am a "victim," yet they cannot come anywhere near providing any proof. Nor will they file charges in India. Most are past the statute of limitations anyway so they have an easy out as an excuse. But the only two accusers within the statute of limitations refuse to file criminal charges. This would also be because they do not have ONE credible corroborative witness and their accusations and actions after alleged crime are riddled with contradictions which do not make sense and they know it.

Khorramshagol even offered me $1000 to go to India and file charges for him! Apparently he did not care to consult with a lawyer long enough to find out his 1993 accusations were long past the statute of limitations. I guess he thought he had infinite time to file charges and could even send a surrogate to take his deposition! Khorramshahgol (who was 19 at the time he alleges the misconduct) like most alleged victims cared so little about their "trauma", they did not even bother to consult with a lawyer to find out what their rights and legal obligations were as a victim. I must point out here that Khorramshahgol states very clearly in his online statement that he did not realize until over six months after his interview with Sai Baba that he was sexually abused. In fact, he claims he only realized it after seeing a video of one of Sai Baba's materializations which allegedly showed Baba cheating that made him realize Baba's heavy breathing and supposed groping of his male parts were sexual in nature. Khorramshahgol is another one who cannot come up with ONE corroborative witness who can verify his claims. As a sexual abuse victim myself (at the age of 13), I find it extremely hard to believe that Khorramshahgol did not realze he was being sexually groped at the time of his interview as he alleges.

Suffice it to say, all of the claims I have examined are more than dubious and, in my opinion, point to either many accusers who think they were going to hit the jackpot similar to the Catholic cases, or there is an orchestrated campaign being funded by some as yet unknown group or groups who feel threatened by Sai Baba's enormous influence.

I'll aptly note that despite Sanjay Dadlani's accusations of "malicious and defamatory content" on my site, he does not cite the pages or provides any links to examples of such.

Regarding the assocation of the ex-baba administration with fundamentalist Christians, the ex-baba site recently posted a full sized banner to a fundamentalist Christian site on ALL their main pages and quickly removed them after I commented on them: See for yourself.

Far be it for Sanjay (the pervert who went around stalking innocent women and posted his boot-fetish pics on his StreetBitches blog) to point his pudgy Hare Krsna fingers at me and say that I do not provide links to his blog after he deleted my message from his blog saying he does not approve of people advertising their sites on his blog. Take a look at his blog and all Sanjay does is advertise Anti-Sai Sites! Why doesn't Sanjay provide clickable links to my site and to the articles he dissents with? Why doesn't Conny Larsson provide clickable links to my site? Hypocrisy clear and simple.

There is no reasoning with a self-professed drunk and a pathological liar. Period. End of discussion.

well, maybe it is time for me to take off a layer of "gloves" and write a bit about myself!

I essentually side with both sides of the baba controversy! I began this
forum mostly to feel out what people today think and feel about baba.

the "real" baba forums seem to be filled with young devotees that are as fervently pro-baba that they are as "fundamentalist" as any chrasmic christian at their worst! they do not wanna hear a bit about their god
might also have a bowel movement once a day or so!! kill ya for mentioning anything anti-baba.

and the anti-baba people often are so full of anger, even if rightiously so.

me?
I would not go to India of my own free will, I cannot even go to church comfortably, here in America! I do not believe in Gurus or people who tell you how to live your life.

in fact, my own philosophy runs a bit like this: how in heaven or hell's name can you become saved unless there is a you there to become saved with?! how can you transcend your ego unless you first have an ego?!

gotta do the steps, miss one, in the child-development series [pegout[sp]], and you never catch up! most of us *think* we have an ego, but often this "ego" is only made up of other people's stuff that you ate and never did chew: swallow whole! often "you" is composed of your family, your small town, your peer group, your country, your race, and NONE of it might be yours!

the closests belief system that i can feel for is the SET group.
http://www.xeper.org/
and a disciple says....essentually that the Set people are to become Themselves, to be an individual and to Wake Up.
http://www.balanone.info/tosintw2.html
more info.

One of my many hobbies is to try to figure out the motivations of people and to see how and why people follow masters and cults.

I am finding reality to be a strange and sticky thing, as i get ever the older.


I have heard so so many "horror stories" about church politics, fundamentalist religion absolutes, slavish devotion of people to cults east and west, that I plan, in my few years left to me, to make sure that
I stay far far away!

the oringinal sin.....as i see it...is that people pass their shit to thier kids and then they kids grow up and pass it on to theirs!
i read that 80% of battered kids will grow up to batter their kids!!
[nievely i would have thought the opposite!!]
probably many of the baba devoteess and the anti-devotees have had terrible childhoods!

the Bible says that all of us have sinned, the reincanationalists feel that everyone on the planet has murdered someone, in some life, thus
every single one of us has feet *and* legs of CLAY!
i probably, in my mind at least, have committed nearly every single sin in the book!

so i am not a devotee of baba. i just started this forum, as i say above, to get a "core sample" of the present day feelings pro and con about baba.

I once, at a university town, went to a baba group meeting only to incur the authoitativeness of the leader, a apparently typical Indian man who was
very powerful and overbearing, not to my taste at all. end of that.

thus i like individualism.

freestone

Edited by author 04-28-2006 12:25 PM
Freestone,

I remember you from when you used to contribute to discussions in the Yahoo Groups. I have not seen you around until very recently by virtue of this forum.

I see that you have been easily led by this propaganda. I find it incredibly ironic that the owner of that website - while claiming to document the shocking and very disturbing online behavior, attacks and smear campaigns waged by Anti-Sai Activists [and] expose the lies, deceit, misrepresentations, conflations, exaggerations and contradictory allegations made against SSB by Anti-SSB Activists who disperse their propaganda on websites on the internet - completely ignores his own guilt of all those things and even more.

I have no need to mention more as Moreno's "concerns" may be fully addressed at an appropriate time. Suffice it to say that we have nothing to worry about considering the very sparse refutation of most of our claims, deflecting attention away from the issues surrounding Sathya Sai Baba to concentrate on other irrelevant things.


>> I believe the only type of person who can present a balanced view into the SSB debate is one who is extremely familiar with SSB but not to the extent of making excuses for SSB (as devotees generally do) ... I do not try to suppress other viewpoints. However, Anti-SSB Sites refuse to provide links to my site and have even banned my site from linking to them. I think this proves that Anti-SSB Sites have much to fear and operate on the premise of deceit, lies and suppression to promote their agenda of hate and propaganda at any cost. <<

It might interest you to know that whereas he claims not to be a devotee, he nevertheless acts as a devotee. He has a total of three pro-Sai sites, two of which include devotional content with pictures, biographies, and the like. The amount of time he spends defending an individual he claims not to believe in frankly makes him look a little silly. Suffice it to say, he has no need to make "excuses" for Sathya Sai Baba because he himself believes that Sai Baba has sexually abused men.

The old version of his page stated the following:

"I am not a Sathya Sai Baba devotee. Nevertheless, I have had many positive, powerful and spiritual experiences with SSB, as I have had with any other spiritual personalities. I do not belong to, go to, or affiliate myself with SSB Centers or the SSO."

The new page has a significant change:

"I am not a Sathya Sai Baba devotee. I was a devotee from the age of 18 to the age of 25. I had/have basic philosophical differences of opinion, with several aspects to SSB's teachings (in particular, God Concepts & Karma), and I left the Sai Movement for that reason. Nevertheless, I have had many beautiful, powerful and spiritual experiences with SSB, as I have had with many other spiritual personalities. My opinion about Sathya Sai Baba (based on my personal experiences with him) is positive. I do not belong to, go to, or affiliate myself with SSB Centers or the SSO. I am an open-minded (but not gullible) agnostic."

The reason he changed thus was because he was feeling the heat from people who were openly wondering why he has committed a significant amount of time and energy writing in defence of a troubled avatar who he does not believe in. It was a move to gain legitimacy for his viewpoint by claiming that he has a reason for investment. Even then he fails, as his current activity does not represent his current beliefs about Sai Baba.


And as for claiming that anti-Sai sites have banned him from linking to their websites, this is an exposed lie. A short while ago Moreno tried to come up with a fancy explanation about htaccess files and how ExBaba was using one against him. Just a tiny problem, Exbaba has never employed any htaccess files or other such things against him. No anti-Sai site has banned Gerald Moreno from linking to their site. I have consulted with the technical operative behind these sites and they have all confirmed that they have never banned Moreno.

There are also incidences of Moreno's displaying unclickable links to other anti-Sai sites such as Conny Larsson's site and my blog. Neither of these sites have blocked Moreno yet he still displays unclickable links to these sites claiming that he is blocked from linking to them. This lie has been in effect since December 2004 and this means that Moreno has been lying about this issue since that time.


>> Many of the baba haters work as a "organized group" apparently, as they belong to fundamentalist Christian organizations! <<

There is no "organised group", and neither do Expose Activists belong to Fundamentalist Christian organisations. Whereas it may be so that some activists are of the Christian religion, does this necessarily mean that there is collusion or affiliation with any organisation with an agenda? Can't it be possible for ex-devotees to be "normal" Christians? This itself is a very popular lie amongst Sai Baba defenders, who have exposed themselves as clowns in a most ridiculous manner. Do you seriously believe that, for example, a Muslim who was educated in a school with a Christian vision becomes a Fundamentalist Christian?

In many ways this site contains false, malicious and defamatory content which will be exposed in the future, so I have nothing more to say except to tell you not to believe everything that you read. I have already written way more than I intended to write and have nothing more to say except to leave it for the future. I suspect that either Moreno or De Witt may respond to this but I will not be replying except to discuss Sathya Sai Baba, "Who is he?"

I'm also highly disappointed that you clearly have nothing to say regarding my points of view, and are simply indulging in the spread of malicious and hateful propaganda instead. I thought that this forum was a place to discuss "Who is Sathya Sai Baba?", but clearly I was wrong. But as I said earlier, nothing can distract from the fact that not everything smells of roses in Sai Baba's garden and no amount of 'apologising' for Sai Baba by his enamoured devotees can change the simple fact that he is not who he says he is. People can say anything they like about ex-devotees because they have very little to say in Sai Baba's defence.

hi all. Time to post this URL again

http://www.saisathyasai.com/

his own purpose: to expose the "exposers of Sai baba!
in his words.....

[quote]
----Why is the purpose of this site?


On these pages, I document the shocking and very disturbing online behavior, attacks and smear campaigns waged by Anti-Sai Activists. These pages sum up my entire view about Anti-Sai Activists and how they are a mob of angry, vindictive and hateful individuals who place their own agenda of deceit and dishonesty above all else.

expose the lies, deceit, misrepresentations, conflations, exaggerations and contradictory allegations made against SSB by Anti-SSB Activists who disperse their propaganda on websites on the internet.
=========

If you are not a devotee, why did you create this website?

My Response: I believe the only type of person who can present a balanced view into the SSB debate is one who is extremely familiar with SSB but not to the extent of making excuses for SSB (as devotees generally do). As one will notice on my site, I provide links to all the articles I take issue with or discuss. I do not try to suppress other viewpoints. However, Anti-SSB Sites refuse to provide links to my site and have even banned my site from linking to them. I think this proves that Anti-SSB Sites have much to fear and operate on the premise of deceit, lies and suppression to promote their agenda of hate and propaganda at any cost
=============

Why would anyone want to lie about Sathya Sai Baba?

My Response: There are many people who would want to lie about Sathya Sai Baba. Click Here to read my article containing factual information regarding the Christian Anti-Sai/Hindu movement. The International Sai Organization is composed of millions of people and is seen as a direct threat by orthodox, evangelical and fundamentalist Christians. Christians were spreading Anti-Sai propaganda many years before the accusations that were later to be made public.
=============
[/quote]

You ought to have over an hour to read his site, there are a *lot* of stuff there: seems that he makes a case for that many of the baba critics
have terrible problems of their own, and that many of them lie and slander as they hate baba so much.

Many of the baba haters work as a "organized group" apparently, as they belong to fundamentalist Christian organizations!
[quote]

The Christian Anti-Sai/Hindu Movement

For several years, many people have claimed that there are Fundamentalist and Evangelical Christian movements against Sathya Sai Baba and Hinduism. Anti-Sai Activists have continually denied that such movements exist and have tried to dismiss these "rumors" as paranoia and excuses for Anti-Sai activity. However, Anti-Sai Activists have been wholly unconvincing considering that they have documented their efforts to polarize Christians, against the Indian Guru, on their own sites! The following is a list to Fundamentalist and Evangelical Christian sites, people and organizations that oppose Sathya Sai Baba and Hinduism:

http://www.saisathyasai.com/baba/Ex-Baba.c...-sai-movements.html

[/quote]


freestone

Edited by author 04-27-2006 12:48 PM
Here's some examples of where I have documented my experiences:

Sai Youth - SEX - - (Update)

Sai Youth - DRUGS

Sai Youth - ROCK & ROLL

Sai Baba - A Whiff Of Fraud

"Sai Krishna" Lie Surfaces Again

Sai Baba's Hypnotic Sex Defence

German Woman Alleges Rape In Puttaparthi

Readers have the choice to believe what I have written or not. The point being is that not everything smells of roses in Sai Baba's garden. Sai Baba may have have a lot of positive factors about him and has done positive things, but it's about time due publicity was given to the increasing concerns that are growing larger and larger as time passes.

By the way, I am not the "current mouthpiece" of the "Anti-Sai Movement" as some people would like to think. I am a vocal critic and ex-devotee, that's it.

Lisa & Joe - Do you two twits have nothing better to do than to disturb Sai Baba discussion groups and plague them with irrelevant information? Try sticking to the topic and discuss/defend Sai Baba for once.


Arielle - Whereas you have a point, that logic does not work in the real world. If you know someone is a murderer and call them out, does that make you a murderer? If you know someone who beats up his wife, does that make you an abusive spouse? Similarly, where Sathya Sai Baba has been called into question over alleged homosexual paedophile activities, murders and other things, it is also a matter of growing concern that he has little or no spiritual authority either. In my view that is the most important thing; millions of people are being influenced to believe in somebody and live their lives according to the teachings of someone who is a sham and a fraud. If Sai Baba cannot even tell us the truth about his own "divinity", then how can you expect him to tell the truth about his criminal activities?


Student - I have written something on my blog about it, here:

Why I Left Sai Baba (In Brief)

Freestone -

1 I have no idea what you are referring to here.

2 If you read my blog link above, you'll find that despite vigorously and strenuously defending Sai Baba from paedophilia and murder allegations on an almost daily basis for a continuous period of ten months, I left Sai Baba of my own accord and had little or nothing to do with the sex allegations.

As I state very clearly on my blog: "I was a hardcore follower of Sathya Sai Baba for just over a decade, and made six trips to see him in India. Now no longer a devotee, I use this blog to record memories, comments and muses on the Sai scenario and also point out inaccuracies in Sai Baba's philosophical and theological presentation."

That's it in a nutshell. I was never "forced" to leave Sai Baba through his "intangible will" or anything like that, although I recognise your right to think differently. I left Sai Baba and realised his fraudulence through my own research of his teachings and philosophy. What he teaches and claims to have advented to uphold is not in line with the Vedantic and spiritual philosophy that he claims to espouse.

I think that it's very important to realise how much of a fraud Sai Baba is through his own sayings and doings. This is what I document in my blog. No amount of spiritual 'apologising' by his enamoured devotees can change the simple fact that he is not who he says he is.

Anti-Sai Campaign is a Farce
After three years and thousands of hours of research into the issues, I have come to the conclusion that the allegations against Sai Baba are more than highly suspicious to say the very least. None of the accusers have ever even tried to file charges in India as required by law. Instead they have played judge, jury and sentencer over the internet. They have contradicted themselves and changed their stories and have absolutely no corroborating witnesses or evidence. They have lied about signing legal affidavits which were notarized. It appears they have lied about Hari Sampath's supposed trip to the Supreme Court of India on May 8, 2001, which is not listed anywhere on the Supreme Court website.
Almost all accusers were grown men (foreigners) whom it appears the anti-Sai group used to try and create the illusion they were "children" who had been sexually abused when, in fact suspiciously, they were adults-some as old as 30 years! Almost all cases are now past the eight year Indian statute of limitations. Most of those pushing the allegations have hidden agendas such as being evangelical Christians, Catholics, anti-Semites and/or white supremacists or atheists! There are even wanted criminals in the group of detractors, including an evangelical Christian who runs a website from the Netherlands and is wanted in California for failing to register as a sex offender after spending six months in prison! If anyone should be investigated, it should be the hate group stalking Sathya Sai Baba.
And HOW many times will it have to be explained to the democratically, ethically and mentally challenged anti-Sai group that NO investigation is launched into any crime in ANY country UNLESS there is an actual victim, willing to take legal responsibility, who FILES FORMAL charges in the COUNTRY where the crime was committed? For some strange reason Robert Priddy, et al, seem to have great difficulty understanding this VERY simple concept of the presumption of innnocence but would rather continue to demonize the Indian government in their blatant and extremely deceptive propaganda campaign. Saisathyasai.com has done an excellent job documenting this deception.
The simple FACT is that not ONE of the alleged victims has filed charges in India. Not one of them EVEN tried to file charges! This nonaction is VERY suspicious in itself. But you cannot get the anti-Sais to understand this because they live in a fantasy world where they think they can make up the rules as they go.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Persecutors_...ba/?yguid=131958149

The person using the name "saibabaexposed" is none other than Sanjay Kishore Dadlani. Sanjay attempts to take a moral and ethical stance against Sathya Sai Baba and is the current mouthpiece for the Anti-Sai movement (receiving the full support and promotion from ALL Anti-Sai Sites).

What Sanjay does not say, however, is that he has been fully exposed for: 1) Pathological Lies; 2) Requesting Jesus, Disney and Biblical Pornography; 3) Creating a vulgar boot-fetish blog that exploited teenagers, women and female students, among many other things.

Such are the exposers of Sathya Sai Baba

One cannot say "These people are criticising Sai Baba, they are scum, worthy only of Naraka (Hell)." Whilst many may wish this to be true, Sai Baba admonishes with love and enjoins with both the law of love and the law of karma. Hence, everyone gets back exactly what they give out.If any body abuses you, take no note, for the abuser is abusing only the body and not your Self. If somebody calls you a bad man, do you become a bad man by mere calling? If in fact, you have something bad in you, try to destroy it. There are a large number of people in this Kali Yuga who abuse God because their wishes are not fulfilled. This is a universal habit common to all countries. You should not succumb to such mean and unholy feelings. Thyagaraja, for example says, that God will manifest to you only to the extent and manner in which you approach God. Whichever way one conceives the Godhead, God appears to him in the same form. If your emotions are good, you get corresponding results.Hatred, jealousy and ostentation have become widespread these days. Get rid of these and get into the principle of love. Whether your desires are fulfilled or not, think that all that happens is good for your good. When you encounter difficulties, always think that better days are ahead. Good and bad are always mixed. Therefore, take both of them with the same attitude.

Edited by author 04-18-2006 10:33 AM
 from freestone the moderator...
 
04-15-2006 10:22 PM ET (US)
 [student said....]
i have one question for "Sai Baba Exposed", why did u stop believing in baba? u must have a special reason... i was just curious but u dont have 2 answer it...
---------------------------------------

freestone says......

from what I can tell, there might be two reasons, I see this a lot with baba and the devotees.
1...the devotee gets bothered by some seeming inconsisticies, but the devotee might not realize that baba is drawing from his own Spirit the info and baba might know much much more about it than the devotee!

2...more importantly, the kitten has got to be weaned! thus many devotees are baba-encouaged, by baba even "turning on the devotee" to make the devotee walk away and come back home and then to begin his life!
baba might have wanted to connect this devotee to the Spirit of baba, or the spirit of the Lord, within his heart, and then thus the outer baba should not be needed anymore! once you have that cell phone, the public phone booths are not now needed! so the pupil is encouraged to leave and if he does not get the message, baba might "force" him to leave by some "sex act" rumor appearing, or the like, so that this devotee might have to , say, return to america or england, marry, get a job, live his life with Spirit in his heart, even if it is with Jesus, not baba, as jesus is the 9th Avatar, and whther jesus or baba, the connection is to the Lord!

freestone

i have one question for "Sai Baba Exposed", why did u stop believing in baba? u must have a special reason... i was just curious but u dont have 2 answer it...

I am not student or devotee, but to the Supreme. In finding all that many faces can be attained in ones garden, all faces are mine even that of Sai Baba. If the world would waste more time, in the discovery of all the faces it carries, those hidden those shown to delight, the world would be a peaceful place for all faces. A person, creature or thing, even that beyond is far from wholeness till it where's all the faces to reach love. Between desires and temptation are the spoken words of hosted bodies that speak only what one wishes too attain. Humanity spend energy in your own discovery, rather in the discovery of any host of body or bodies, perhaps this garden of mine, will stand with good. All faces then could reach infinite peace here or beyond, your garden and your neighbors. Live your life, not desire anothers. If you belong not in a house whether it be Sai Baba or mine then find your house. Silence yourself, for in talking to much one takes the breath of a child being born. The energy one exalts to say non-good, is double the effort. For in saying nothing is something, to say to much is too be lost.

Edited by author 01-14-2006 10:51 PM
Alien, my personal opinion whether Sathya Sai Baba is the reincarnation of Shirdi Sai Baba is undecided. You can view an essay I wrote back in June 2003 where I commented and questioned the link between the two:

http://saibabaexposed.blogspot.com/2002/07...iva-or-sadhaka.html

As for Shirdi Baba himself, I respect him as a great saint. Whatever I have read of him has impressed me and although I disagree with that tradition on minor points, I have no doubt that he is still a living presence of sorts.

Edited by author 01-05-2006 10:29 PM
I was wandering what the anti SB lobby thought of Shirdi Sai Baba? Once can be sure there are the usual violent-monotheists or fundamentalists that once crucified Christ are more or less the same lot we have in their modern incarnations in today's Cyber Age ?

I was a devotee of Sathya Sai Baba for just over a decade, and made six trips to see him in India. Now no longer a devotee, I use this blog to record memories, comments and muses on the SB scenario and also point out inaccuracies in SB's philosophical and theological presentation.

http://saibabaexposed.blogspot.com/

here is a link to an interesting forum about the people who
are "anti-baba"! all of these critics of baba seem to have great personal problems and they all seem to be of the very worst hyprocrits!

http://www.saisathyasai.com/baba-forum/


freestone

hi all, from freestone, the moderator.

I have found a site, that for me, is an Amazing site, about the Expose of Sathya!

http://www.saisathyasai.com/

Here, this person exposes the exposers!

I will post some of what he found, in summery, in a cut and paste of some of the front page, go to read this if you are interested!
==================


SATHYA SAI BABA: Lies & Anti-Sais
 
 
ExBaba.com Deception

Insightful and astonishing facts about the portal to the largest Anti-Sai site on the internet, ExBaba.com. An exhaustive page for page analysis.


SATHYA SAI BABA
• DOCUMENTARY: Secret Swami
Anti-Sai Film

A documentary that not only misrepresented Alaya's testimonies, against the Indian Guru Satya Sai Baba, but failed to take into account vital information about Alaya Rahm.


SATHYA SAI BABA
• DOCUMENTARY: Seduced By Sai Baba
Anti-Sai Film

Contradictory testimonies from Conny Larsson, Jed Geyerhahn and Alaya Rahm, examined. Also talks about Ojvind Kyro and his unsubstantiated claim to being in possession of 10 affidavits.


SATHYA SAI BABA
• SATHYA SAI BABA: Mirror Site
 SaiGuru.net Deception

An Anti-Sai site that duplicates articles from ExBaba.com (and other Anti-SSB sites) and tries to pass itself off as an "independent" site.

SATHYA SAI BABA
• 20 YEAR UNTRUTH: Skeptics Untruth Exposed
A False Claim

James Randi related a story about Sam Dalal (regarding a Seiko watch miracle attributed to Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba) over 20 years ago, that was shown to be 100% incorrect. All it took was one email to disprove this untruth.

SATHYA SAI BABA
 • WITNESSES: Alaya Rahm
 Withheld Information

An extensive look into the various sexual abuse testimonies made by Alaya Rahm, along with interesting observations and two insightful transcripts.

SATHYA SAI BABA
 • SAIPETITION.NET: Online Petition
Petition Against SSB

Exposing the deceptive practices, additions, alterations, deletions and false claims made by the "petition" administrators against Sathya Sai Baba and the Sai Organization.


SATHYA SAI BABA
• CORRESPONDENCE: Emails Sent/Received
From The Source

Emails from Anti-Sai Activists and their unusual, bitter and angry remarks and responses to valid concerns and questions.


SATHYA SAI BABA
• ALLEGED SEXUAL ABUSE: Witnesses
16 Alleged Victims

16 people are listed as allegedly being sexually abused by Sri Satya Sai Baba (a.k.a. "Swamiji"). Fake names, contradictions and oilings discussed.

SATHYA SAI BABA
• CHRISTIAN ATTACKS: & Sathya Sai Baba
Anti-Sai Movement

Anti-Sai Activists have denied that there is a Christian Anti-Sai/Hindu movment. My research has uncovered that there are definitely Christians who are Anti-Sai/Hindu. This article highlights Christian advocates (many fundamentalists) who actively disperse propaganda against Sathya Sai Baba on the internet.




SATHYA SAI BABA
 • AFFIDAVITS: Sworn Testimonies?
 Where are they?

Numerous claims to "affidavits" filed against the Indian Baba. Not even one affidavit has been made public, despite rampant claims.

SATHYA SAI BABA
 • U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: Sai Baba Advisory
 The Real Story

The real reason behind the U.S. State Department's warning for Puttaparthi Ashram travelers and how Anti-Sathya-Sai Activists revealed it was their unremitting efforts that brought about the warning.

SATHYA SAI BABA
• UNESCO: Withdrawal
 Just The Facts

The Unesco and Flinders University Withdrawal from the ISSE (Institute of Sathya Sai Education) Conference and how Anti-Sai Activists boasted on how they accomplished it by "e-bombing" various officials and resorting to group thuggery tactics.

============================

MY COMMENTS

nasty nasty!
After i had read some of this, I felt in a bad mood. Here are people who try to expose Sia baba, who are not in truth in and of themselves. From a "baba sex" guy who was himself apparently under therapy for the same child sex offenses, when younger, to e-mail bombings to rants, you name it.

I have a friend who once told me that there was a colalition of christian fundamentalists who have an agendy to tear down ALL Hindu living Gurus, not just sai baba. To make them all look so bad, in people's eyes, that people would only go for the Fundamentalist approach to spiritual life!
    No wonder most of Europe is "christian free"! no sane or intelligent young person would want to touch christianty, and i can well well see why!

I also had my friend tell me that many of the "old school"
hindu gurus do not like baba, or any of the "modern" Gurus either! the old school gurus feel that no guru should ever ever come out of seclusion, they should stay in their cave! here baba comes out into the world, a "no-no", to their way of old life!

QT - Nalinesh <qtopic+29-FE68KidtskS@quicktopic.com> wrote:
--QT------------------------------------------------------------- Reply by email or visit
http://www.quicktopic.com/29/H/FE68KidtskS/m10
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I have known Sai Bab for 30 years - the past ten years from a
very personal level. I also spent two whole years in the ashram
(or outside it). There is nothing to indicate that Sai Baba of
Puttaparthi is a charlattan. But in Bukkampatnam, about two
miles out of Puttaparthi is a charlattan who dresses up as Sai
Baba, does some tricks and generally tries to lead devotees
away. If you are a new devotee going to Puttaparthi - there are
a 50% chance you could end up in Bukkampatnam and meet the other
"Sai Baba".
_________________________________________________________________

that is nice to know, the real thing always has soon a counterfeit! The real Baba is so busy that surely, as he himself says, "no one comes here to see me unless I bring them"!
 

freestone




seen on a bridge overpass, in Rochester, ny 1970
..."AND THE TRUTH WILL MAKE YOU LAUGH"!

Freestone Wilson
freestonew@yahoo.com
weblog....
http://freestone.blogspot.com

I have known Sai Bab for 30 years - the past ten years from a very personal level. I also spent two whole years in the ashram (or outside it). There is nothing to indicate that Sai Baba of Puttaparthi is a charlattan. But in Bukkampatnam, about two miles out of Puttaparthi is a charlattan who dresses up as Sai Baba, does some tricks and generally tries to lead devotees away. If you are a new devotee going to Puttaparthi - there are a 50% chance you could end up in Bukkampatnam and meet the other "Sai Baba".

Who are you?
Who are you in the traveles of your dreams? Who are you in the wakeing day? How do you think I can have faith in your dream time! Have you ever had a physical experience of your travels when you are not asleep!!! Sleeping dreams have so much to do with what you have eaten before sleep, drucken before sleep and also the amount of sleep you havent had before the experience! I am not cutting you down. I am simply a person who has heard so many people like yourself, crap on with this type of shit and you truly have no proof of what you are saying. Its people like you that cause great discomfort in people that are not strong in mind and have nothing to turn to, and believe the first thing that is said to them. You must be carefull in your truth, for many people might feel less than you. It is not there fault but a journey they must travel without your dreams of misplacement!

Going to heaven and hell is a personal mis conception that has only happened in your dreams. Like SSB, you are someone that can be dangerous to the inosent that have a simple truth but will listen to all because they are seeking.

Be carefull my friend, SSB`s ashram is full of people like you,

LIVE A SILENT TRUTH

Edited by author 08-12-2005 09:17 AM

[quote]

 First hand experience 7
 
08-12-2005 02:23 AM ET (US)
SAYS....


To be or not to be?


I feel after all that has happened with SSB,I am left like a leaf blowing in the wind. He did not build my faith in God but rather destroyed it and the will to search.
[/quote]

=====================================




yes I feel your pain.

My blind friend, Bruce, who is a very "strong" person, and a very devout Christian of the Fundalmentalist flavor, says often to me, in his emails, "worship the creator, not the created"!

any "object" is created, like even sai baba is a created form! The creator, being "above" form, is what one should worship. all forums will eventually DIE!

I also find, from reading of esoteric stuff, that in the higher heavens, thoughts, laws, ideas, are also "things"!
they are not to be worshipped either! In fact, the lower heavens change over time, only the upper, celestual, heavens are Permanent.
Hell exists too, i have been there, seen some of it, and you do *not* want to go there to live!

If baba has any merit, as something to worship, then it would be the "entity" behind and above baba. in fact, some of his "ex" worshippers, write how they pray to the
"greater baba"! they do not have any pictures of baba in their homes. nor do they have any image of him when they pray.

I have experienced many dreams, myself, where I have been taken, by Guides of some sort, to see and to experience places in the heavens, much like Paul was taken up to see the heavens, to the third heaven, he writes.
Yes, i have seen many levels of heavens, from healing centers for the newly arrived, to schools of progressions.
i have seen my own "deceased" sister graduate from such a school, Jesus himself took all of the 50 or so students to a higher heaven.
[this here freestone thusly has seen Jesus as a Living Spirit, he Exists, truely!]
Wince!
I, yes, have also seen baba in my dreams and for many dreams. there was one where he lectured, gave a lecture on the "dead", the souls who live without spirit in their hearts. "the unsaved", in Jesus's terms!
most of my baba dreams are where i just see him somewheres.

[oh i could write pages about this baba experiences of mine, not in this reply though, i will dribble some out as time goes by and then more, if this Forum becomes popular!
Be aware that I am *not* a "devotee" of baba! I eat meat and live a western life, i have no pictures of baba in my apartment. I do not feel that all that he does is "nice"!!]

I have some of my own dream experiences written up at my yahoo page group. you may, if interested, come to read some of my heaven visits, in the "files" section.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestonefiles/

my weblog is at
http://freestone.blogspot.com
"my life after near death experiences"

freestone

To be or not to be?

Why are so many people needing somthing to worship? Why is there a need to bow down to a higher source as I did for so many years? As you said, Tal is now a Fundamentalist Christian. There is still teachings that go along with that but no direct communication with the source. No chance of the bad memories he had with SSB. When you said [maybe the muslum idea that there should be no icons of God, in image form, is a very good idea!] what perseption do you have then? I would think that simple is sweet. Perhaps my god is the air that I breath now. Maybe the only true temple is GOD... Great Out Doors. Nobody truly knows the real answers. What if there is absolutly NOTHING! When you have faith in one thing,then through what ever reason change to something else, claiming to all that this is the one, then you are not forfilled for what ever reason. What does one do? Bounce around from faith to faith or just give up the whole bloody thing and sweep it all under the mat. At the end of the day nobody TRULY knows the answer.

I have no problem with Tals choice of faith, good on him after what he has been through. I have been through the same things as he, but when your faith is crushed and you have lost your trust in the most beautiful teachings and words from so many walks of life...I am left with the one truth I know...and that is."Nobody Truely Knows"

I feel after all that has happened with SSB,I am left like a leaf blowing in the wind. He did not build my faith in God but rather destroyed it and the will to search.

First Hand

HI all, from Freestone, the "owner" of this list.

ah, the sex experiences!

I once read a sort of "confidential memo" that baba wrote, or talked about, to his inner circle. He spoke about how the Identification of Love, Truth, Goodness, with his FORM, has now got to stop!
[so many devotees think that baba *is* the Lord, the christmas wrapping paper on the present-box is the contents!]
he went on to talk about how love goodness truth has no form whatsoever.

I have a Guess!
baba made sure that no one would ever ever have a picture of baba on his/her wall ever ever again! In fact, to
dis-avow baba, deny baba and go back to Jesus or Mohammad or whatever...
[maybe the muslum idea that there should be no icons of God, in image form, is a very good idea!]

Thus now Tal Brooke, who was one of the very first people to find out about baba and his sexing men and boys, has become a very Fundamentalist christian, and, i think, as of a few years ago, has joined with some of the Yale[?]...Harvard[?] inner circle of devout movers and shakers in the intellectual christain movement, there.

after all, when you have a Direct Line to God, via Jesus, do you need *another* phone line?!!

thus baba deliberately, in some manner, chose this sex thing.

after all, he has told over and over about how he cares not what people think of him.

probably he will die alone, maybe even before his stated time of 94, 95, 96 years, that he has told how long he will live. to die alone with hardly any devotees, and most people would call him, via history's Judgement, a FAILURE!

thus i would recommend that one knows that the spiritual life has no form or shape and that this reality is not in a picture of a man!

I have a suspician that once i go to heaven, and visit that world of baba that baba says that all of his devotees go to after they die, and *IF* baba is who he says he is, then i would find, there, that all of the devotee's houses
have no trace at all of baba there! In fact no vistor would even be able to tell that this realm is "baba's realm", as there are no temples about him, no pictures or statues of him!
the only thing that one would find there is a lot of love, truth and good acts, by everyone to everyone around them, and there would be beauty in all of the surroudings!
no baba form.

freestone

SSB teachings are not unlike many others in the world. I have had many interviews with SSB, been given rings, robe, ash etc. Had many private interviews one on one with him. I was 10 years with his teachings. I was related to and knew heads of the organization personaly. My first trip was when I was 16 years old. This is hard for people to exept when they never have had first hand experiences. My third private interview was the first time he massaged my penis. He did this twice to me and once to my brother. He forced my brother to have oral sex with him. He told me to stay away from girls and only be with him. He said "I am God"...do you want me to do this to you? No I did not want SSB to do anything to me but he did. When you are young and everybody says he is God, you have fear of saying no to him. As I became older, I realized that I had been interfeared with and that it had nothing to do with rising my kundalini energy or anything of the sort. He made me and my brother very sad for a long time. In my visits to him I also meet many students and other young men from all over the world who had had the same thing happen to them. Fear, confusion, shattered faith, broken families, broken marriges and most of all, taking away young mens purity that should be shared with a woman they love, not with a man materbating then and forcing oral sex. My brother and I are not the only ones this has happened to. SSB the man is very different to the teachings he gives. The truth has been given....Thank you

HI I HAVE MET HIM IN HIS INTERVIEW ROOM, AND I HAVE HAD MANY EXP... I FEEL I KNOW WHAT HE IS ... PLS MAIL ME.

hi:)

i'm new on this forum and i'd like to share my own opinion. First time i heard about Sai was about a year and a half ago, and then i started to read everything i could find about him so i know his words. There is a way too much big rumour made about who Sathya Sai Baba is. even though i have no proofs to show that he is a sex-molester 'in my opinion' saying that he is a charleton is a subjektive opinion, because i could also say that Pope John Paul II for example is a charleton if i only disagree with his teachings. people who find in his teachings something against their own religion, believes, can say that. I understand, they may be scared that they may lose something precious, their faith. another thing: Sathya Sai Baba isn't the first, and won't be the last person who teaches that not only he is a GOD, but also we are. i don't know if you can see a paradox that the author of the Conversations with God (Neale Donald Walsch), for example, wasn't called a charleton, but his teaching despite the form are nearly the same. Short version: i am who i am. you are too, and ..i love you. That was only an example, they're are countless. if you give yourself a time to be familiar with his teachings, and if you feel like they touch your heart decide in what you believe. if not, express your opinion but don't judge if you don't want to be judged. i know one thing that his words completely changed my life and let in some love i was looking for. i thank him from here for that. personally, i think he is great, and trust his words that sound true to me. as i said that's my own opinion and i'd like to hear what you think about it. I love you guys and have a nice life.

ps. please forget my English
Friend

Edited by author 02-11-2005 06:39 PM
there was an old messege forum that had over 3100 posts to it, a vertible treasure trove of baba material pro and con.

http://www.quicktopic.com/8/H/qYarJBpGLW7G6/p8.1
and the last messege is at
http://www.quicktopic.com/8/H/qYarJBpGLW7G6
3164 messeges, and the forum is closed.
   there were a lot of jewels there for discerning people to read.

I noted that near the end, there were many anti-baba posters who posted under false names, and too too often!
>>>>
quote
She was quite serious and supposed it was karma. She had many years in Puttaparthi to observe devotees. Sadly, it seems that at least one of those devotees who went over the edge has made his way to this board. Why, I wonder, would anyone want to post under several alias names or steal other's names unless they had truly gone over the edge of sanity. Let there be Light....
quote.

people who use devious tricks to post, are Guilty of the same "evil" as that they accuse baba of doing!!
"the ends justify the means" has undone many many a social reformer, who ends up being One Of Them that he/she rails against!!

there is no way to access those 3100 posts randomly!
one must go backwards in sequence, or begin at the beginning url, UNLESS one knows the trick! one can right click on the link for the number...

<< 3109-3116 3101-3108 of 3172 3093-3100 >>
 
Who | When Messages (not accepting new messages)

 
Long-Time Devotee 3108
 
07-09-2002 02:19 AM ET (US)
 When I was a devotee of sb, I had a good devotee friend who lived for many years in Puttaparthi. She said to me in quiet honesty more than once, "I wonder why so many devotees go crazy??"
 
in that "3093-3100", above, righ clicking on it brings up
"copy shortcut"
then paste into the url field at the top of the browser.
http://www.quicktopic.com/8/H/qYarJBpGLW7G6/p3100.3093

press enter to get the PROBABLE error site not found messege! then you take that
http://www.quicktopic.com/8/H/qYarJBpGLW7G6/p3100.3093
  and change the url to
http://www.quicktopic.com/8/H/qYarJBpGLW7G6/p129
or
http://www.quicktopic.com/8/H/qYarJBpGLW7G6/p2559
or try other numbers, some work!!

freestone

freestone

Sathya Sai Baba, 2005, who is he?

Hi all, I am the moderator, welcoming you all.

I have read SO many Sai Baba pro and con articles and posts and threads, over the years. many have died of old age or of banning or of spamming by baba lovers/haters.

So now it is Febuary 2005. Who is Sai baba?
God?
a god?
a guru?
a charleton?
a sex molestor?
a fake?
a man?
---you make the call, and "why".

He is now about 80 years old, he says he will live till he is 95 or so. I read so little about him, now, in the press and media. no more books are for sale about him, unless one were to go to a website.

I will "offically" be Neutral here. I am trying to find out, myself, more about him. Thus this quicktopic might be a good way to get currant opinions and personal experiences about him.

freestone [birth certificate family last name!]