Ref: Det. saying that the union is week is nothing more than a cop out. The union is only as strong as the membership. I can tell you from experience that 90% plus of the MEMBERSHIP never attends a union meetingand instead relies on others to tell them whats going on. The union is not about one person whether it's the local president, branch president, executive board or council. It's about all of collectively. As long as we continue to air our dirty laundry in a public forum management will always have the upper hand. We should keep our internal disputes internal. I have been a steward for the past 15 years and have seen just about every contract violation that could occur. Quite frankly our grievance system sucks, but it is what we have to deal with. Even after 20 years as an employee and 15 years as a steward I would not want the issues that local presidents and branch presidents have to deal with every day. Whether you think they are doing a good job or not, the fact is that they are doing a job that 99.9% of us don't want. We are all adults, and as such we should all act accordingly. This constant whining about the union being weak is nothing more than a reflection of ourselves.

That being said....which I respect.....mgmnt still does what they want.

kankan I'll give you that, the bashing does get tiresome, BUT you must realize that a large part of the acting out/bashing comes out of frustration. Nobody tells us what's going on. And everybody wants to know - has a RIGHT to know! To hell with your idea of keeping out internal disputes to ourselves! Wouldn't management just love that! They run all over us now, let's give them the permission to do it and keep it quiet! People want to know what's going on so they get on the internet to try to find out what no one else, including our Unions, will tell us.

wingfan - i agree that the frustration is sometimes overwhelming. I was present when Wheezy threw her tantrum and tossed the president out of the building. I have to say that I commend him for maintaining his composure and making Dunlap look foolish. Before being tossed out he did say that excessing was going to happen with the small caveate that no-one would be moving from the BMC because there is nowhere for us to go and more than likely the excess mailhandlers would be put in a standby room like they do with the hurt folks. A will have to disagree with you about keeping our internal to ourselves. If anyone thinks that management does not read this site they are crazy. And these so called management folks love to see us fight amongst ourselves. Go Tigers, Go Wings, Go Pistons, and please, go Lions.

Dunlap is so disrespectful! Never seen anything like it before.

TigerDave for sure they read this stuff. I still think that we should be able to get on here and talk about what's going on. I don't think we should fight amongst ourselves because they do love and encourage that. But I do think we should expose their crap and I especially want to know what is going on across the country with our jobs.

We'll see about those Lions. They always break my heart.

Lots of Detroit folks in here I see!

wing fan - can't disagree with you, we just needto keep the union stuff with the union and don't give those lovely folks in management any fuel for the fire. As far as the lions go, well, should be interesting. The wings on the other hand - STANLEY CUP

where are they trying to send you good union brothers from detroit?Has any one been told they getting sent to DSM?They dont tell us shit at DSM either.Just told us we could pick up 200 or so people.They trying to get our primary up and running but heard they took most of parts and use them secondary and elsewhere.How many clerk tours they running in Jersey?

Also does any one else use a singulator in secondary?Ours has tons of mis sents everyday.Anyones work very well?It also likes to shred stuff.

Hey Jarhead... We have mostly heard Pittsburgh.....I have heard some about DSM. In my opinion I would think Chi would be comin your way. It's all crazy. Our PM is so ignorant. Won't even tell us the truth. Like were all stupid. I just want to know to make plans. Learn my fate....whatever. I would really like the respect of being up front. I think they are trying to scare people into transfering. I won't do it. Force me! I'm not giving up being a regular. If you transfer...your a flex....and probably a carrier. When they go down to 5 day delivery, I wonder how many hours the flex's will get.

Jarhead,we have been using the singulator in our secondaries for a few years now in Pitt. Ive never heard of a problem with missents but it does shred the mail pretty good. Maintenance reactive must be on standby whilst the machine is running because it often shits the bed. Oh and if you have it cranked up too fast, the amount of rewrap triples.

P.S. Wingfan, the last two Stanley Cup finals have been the most entertaining hockey I have ever seen.

Edited by author 08-11-2009 10:48 AM
Hi everyone,

Just an update from the Memphis BMC/NDC. The Memphis BMC will become a tier 3 NDC on September 14. A town hall was held today to discuss the changes. Mail processing personnel (recently almost 100 excessed) will expand to over 185 on tour 2, just over 110 on tour 3, and 135 or so on tour 1. We don't currently have a tour 1 for mail processing, and both of the other tours will need more people. Our volume, over time, will (so they said) increase tenfold or more - as all of the NDC's come online.

We are getting only 1 new piece of equipment - a high speed tray sorter. We will be running 2 primary sorters, 2 secondary sorters, 2 sack sorters, 3 spbs, the NMO, and 2 HSTS's. There were lot of other details that they went over, such as processing windows, etc. Is there anyone at a phase 1 level 3 NDC that can give us a hint as to how it all worked out during the changeover?

More as we hear more............

Has anybody gone through the changes of becoming a Tier 1 NDC? We were told that there would not be a lot of processing, more like a cross dock operation. We were also told that there would be some excessing. Just curious to see what may be in store for the Tier 1 NDCs.

Jarhead, your ETs and MPEs need to start checking your singulator belt speeds, diverters to the inductions, and the tracking sensors. Also the ETs should be able to check the PSM to see if the induction SEI is wrong. We don't have a problem with shredding mail that wouldn't be fixed by the clerks who accept it...

Anyone that gets a excess to Dsm please look me up can help you find things around the DSM NDC.There is a weekly value price hotel just blocks from the ndc.Or anyone that needs to check out ndc before deciding call us we can show you around.DSM NDC is in a pretty nice area for family living.

Thanks jarhead.....very nice of you!

This is Prime , why are you all directing your angry at the choosen one? save your energy for the deceptamangers that you all have to go to war with on a regular basic. Your time is near D day will arrive and a great number of you will not survive these great changes that will very soon sweept over the Postal Service changeing it forever, your Onions power is now being stripped and they can know longer protect you from the deceptamangers that will soon rock your worlds, all the Onion dues you have payed has been waisted away by use less Nacional directors , you have know power to strike ,your only changeing of surival now is to beg for your jobs, I am Prime and I warned you all before and you did not lissen ,are work is now done on your planit , you must fight the Deceptaclowns on your on ,good luck to you all I AM PRIME ,AUTOBOTS TRANSFORM AND ROLL OUT ,THE PARTY IS OVER!

Pickles/Jarhead:

We don't have a problem with the singulator chewing up mail, either. We have an ET and an MPE running the machine, and we have added a few bumpers that divert the mail to the center of the belts. The recirculation belts do eat a magazine occasionally, but we minimized that by adding UHMW guards to the head and tail ends to keep mail from slipping under.

Our problem was that mail was coming into the singulator all chewed up, and we had to keep stopping it to clear things out. We went throughout the facility eliminating gaps at the head end of belts, and replacing the rubber where necessary. This reduced the shredded mail, and also resulted in lighter mail searches.

in response to 2014...memphisnewz, AtlNDC had townhall meeting with PM on 8-12, our transformation date is 9-14 thru 10-09, you will be getting slammed with most of our mail volume and just in time for the holiday season, what were they thinking. Our PM would not give us any numbers on how many jobs will be excessed but the phrase "one tour" was mentioned often, some clerks are already joking aroud with the idea of "it look likes memphis is going to be to place to be".

ZZZZZzzzzZZZ, I have written my congressman john conyers and both of our senators. Even if 20 of us do it it will not be enough. everybody who works at the BMC must start writing their congressmen and remind them that they vote. I would hope that the union would organize this kind of thing but they don't really seem too involved. I know Kister got thrown out by Dunlap but what is he doing besides showing up one time. the branch president never even comes to tour 3 and even screwed the tour 3 steward by failing to file his removal grievance timely. Scary stuff.

Kister is getting a letter together for the membership to sign and send to our representatives. He is also looking into filing an injunction regarding the plan to excess. Im glad to see someone is concerned enough to write someone. The problem with the mail handler membership as a whole is we dont care until it involves "me". Well let me say it is here and "we" are all smack dab in the middle of it. Now here's some food for thought... every story has two sides to it; half an hour ago sleepy rider thought he/she, him/her, you/me, it, how, where,why believed the union wasnt involved. Had the Union not been involved to the extent MR. Sleepy contends we would all be getting pink slips by now. I hope that woke you up out of your slumber..Sleepy Rider

All of you detroit folks are really out there. It is certainly the branch president who should be telling you what you should so, whats going on, what is going to happen, who is going where, etc. The local president is responsible for the politicians, local community leaders, upper levels of postal management. from what I have read here is that your local president was tossed out of the building. Does anyone know why ? Did he slap a supervisor ? was it because he was telling people things that the managers did not like or did not want you to hear ? Alot of missing information here. I don't know your local president but my local president says he knows what he is doing and is commited to the mailhandlers. remember, the union does not have this magic pixie dust that they can toss in the air and make management do the right thing. Either you have been spoiled, are ignorant, or you think that rumors run the show.

Excessing will be done juniority. The magic number is 102.

This is kinda like a Postal Lottery.
Whose number will fall next?

In response to post 2022, Memphis NDC excess 34 clerks and 30 mailhandlers earlier this year. Those people would get the chance to come back before anyone could be excess in from Atlanta NDC or anywhere else.

well midnight rider try the clerks union I mean the local more so the detroit bmc union. When we go them to tell them what we have heard or is it true that..... all they say is whaaaatttt is that how many people or is that whats going to happen .They can't possibly be that dumb!! and one will tell you when you have a question for her is "what difference does it make we are still going to find something to complain about" ,but mind you she is seeking election soon.

Edited by author 08-18-2009 03:24 PM
Well said, ChiTown. For years the BMC has been handled with kid gloves because the branch prez's have been unqualified. People complained and voted in a new one more unqualified than the last. the mh's at the bmc need to man up and stop thinking the local prez is their personal union rep. they got what they voted for, either press internal charges and get rid of of the branch prez or shuddup because no one else expects the local prez to live in their facility

Hey 307MH... Nobody expects Kister to live in our building but when all this stuff happening hasnt been experienced before by any branch prez who are we supposed to rely on. Maybe you dont have nothing to bitch about bcuz your facility isnt getting affected. Maybe your out there where Kister always seems to b. Or maybe your somewhere safe under a plant managers desk, or crawling around hiding behind closed doors...SCABSKIN.. You know who you are....}}}}{{{{.......I know who you are.

What was in the letters given to the clerk at the bulk mail center today ?. they were so. " mum the word" about them

I do believe that all of this finger pointing, he said/she said, and blame game playing is entirely counterproductive to our struggles. Each of us must realize two things. this is happening in every facility across the state and across the country, and, the times have changed. we see it every day at work and in our home lives. A faltering economy, decreased spending, government intervention in private industry. The proverbial handwriting is on the wall. This is not the same postal service we hired into 10 - 20 years ago. Change is inevitable, some good but mostly it will have negative effects on our lives as employees, and as brothers and sisters in this struggle. The enemy lies within our membership. We are quick to critcise but we will stand at the end of the line when our help is needed. I have witnessed all to many meetings that have turned into free-for-alls over personal issues. And while personal issues certainly have validity, the overall picture and demise of our solidarity has a greater importance. Standing alone we will falter and fail, standing together we will grow and we will succeed. Unite one and all, this is a fight of many and not one. Our very existance relies on each and every one of us joining hands, our voices must sound as one.

Edited by author 08-19-2009 08:09 AM
The real question on the BMC board should be, have any clerks from Philly BMC (or mail handlers for that matter) actually been excessed from the facility? If so have they been excessed into other crafts, or are they all still sitting in a room on stand by status? The answers to these questions are the only ones that really impact all of the other excessing questions on this board. Where are the clerks going? Where are the mail handlers going? Philly is the first real Tier 1 NDC, and if no one is leaving there no one is leaving anywhere! There is nowhere to put everyone and management would love to go into contract negotiations with people on standby time across the country so they can use that to do away with the no layoff clause in the contract.

Again look outside your building for a change, everyone is being affected somehow but most of the other facilities don't need the local prez to move in. Just where is it that kister is always supposed to be anyway? Your branch prez should be the main player in this and the local prez and the eboard should be backup.

John the Baptist.... you hit the nail on the head. What your talking about is dead on regarding the unity and the changes. The rumors,backstabbing,and finger pointing is not doing any good.

To your question about excessing at the phila NDC. 35 mailhandlers were to be excessed about 20 have gone so far, the clerks was 83 were to be excessed about 38 have gone so far, the 12 TTO were to be excessed so far none. There is no where to send the rest.

Sooo correct. A buddy of mine told me they had a standup meeting merely discussing excessing. It almost became a free for all with most folks arguing about who would stay and who would go if they get excessed. Bottom line, they will probably get excessed. What was funny or sad is that when folks were going after each other, management never tried to quiet them down. They were leaning against the wall smiling. Then they find out that the PM will be leaving soon for another job and the supervisor is retireing at the end of this year. Way to go employees, beat each other up and management sits back and laughs. No unity. It's sad.

Phila. Mailhandler, those that have left, are they staying within their own craft or have they been moved to other crafts?

today atDSMNDC they started the primary parcel sort for the first time in years.Getting ready for the mail we are suppose to get from KC on Monday.KC see anything different going oh there?They have been shuffling everyones hours around also.tour 2 has 0600 start and 0730.tour 3 has 1600 and maybe 1800 and 2100.NOT sure on tour 3 they have changed hours so much cant remember the start times.

All trailers have a 30 minute turnaround from when they hit the yard. All trailers will be worked before we leave. Currently have approx 13 arrivals between 0300 and 0700 when processing is not there. OT mandatory until 0400 trailers are empty. Have noticed alot of mail w/ DSMNDC placards. Still processing those but will stop on Mon. Plant Mgr wants HCR drivers to set own trailers. Transportation mgr against it. Currently have 4 yard hustlers on T-3 but Plant mgr wants just 1(hope he doesn't call in sick). Also thinks that 1 VOA can handle everything. No changes and probably will not excess clerks but mailhandlers may be in trouble. Rumors of APPS going to KCMO and letter tray machine going to DSM.

thanks kc.heard we will be getting 200 to 240 mailhandlers.does it look like lots of mail headed this way otrs and postal packs or what?take care thanks for info.getting ready for any overtime this may bring us.

Mailhandlers are in trouble in Det. Told us today that 96 would be leaving....well they have no place to go yet. Gotta go to a stand by room.

yea and they paint such a pretty picture about it. Plant manager says shes going to put a tv, maybe video games, allow lap tops, jig saw puzzles... ARE YOU FREKIN KIDDING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!! Come 2011 when the no layoff is attacked by the PO guess who they're going to say they don't need and can prove it. At the same time the Det NDC is about to go thru an excess we've been working more ot than we have in a while. 96mh and only 34 clerks! 96 out of 280 vs 34 out of roughly 230something. Somethings kind of fishy around here. You got alota splanin to do LUCY!!

doesn't dunlap paint a rosy picture. She is so full of it. Everyone knows that she has it out for the mailhandlers. notice how the clerk reps are always hanging out with her. hopefully dunlap gets caught with all of this mailhandler screwing she is doing. Did everyone get the letters from the pres ? sounds like a big dispute about this excessing is boiling over.
we just have to wait and see i suppose

at a town hall meeting on 8-20-09 ms.dunlap said there will be 82 level.4 mh & 20 level 5 mh to be excessed and only 34 clerks is she lost her mind?? while right now clerks ars doing our jobs letter trays daily this is some real bullsh when is the crazy woman leaving she keeps saying she won't be here she is retireing so go!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you guys have union representation in your facility? Our steward files constantly on management for allowing other crafts to do our work. He files for money. This is a sign of the times for the mess we will be going through.

scheduled date for AtlNDC transformation is 9-12 thru 10-09 at which all non-local turnaround mail will be transfered to MemNDC, had luch with a friend on 8-20 who's an expediter at NM P&DC, he said they were told effective Mon.8-24 they are supposed to seperate MemNDC parcels from AtlNDC parcels as they arrive from the branches, the questtion we both had was "we're wondering if Memphis has any clue it's coming" because it appears they are starting 3 weeks early or maybe it's just a trial run to see if they can get it right. Will follow up with friend after 8-24 to see what's happening.

YES WE HAVE UNION AND THEY FILE DAILY ON CROSSING CRAFTS MADE IT A CLASS ACTION BUT DUMASS SAID SHE CAN DO WHAT EVER SHE WANTS IT'S HER BUILDING SHE IS THE PLANT MANAGER. AND IF A SUPERVISOR MAKES HER PISSED OFF SHE SHIPS THEM OUT OF HER BUILDING.

Grievances are the tools the union uses to fight what ever management is doing wrong. In fact every craft employee should file a grievance every time they see a manager, supervisor, or 204B doing craft work. Insist on being at your step one meeting. Document every time you see delayed mail or color codes being changed and turn it in to the union. If everybody is afraid of becoming involved in the fight against what is happening everybody will be hurt. Go to your union meetings and educate yourself on how to help. Write your congressional representatives. Don't flip vans that have not been offloaded. If your supervisor asks you to flip a van or does it themselves file a grievance and call the OIG. Remember, you are fighting for your job/livelihood. Once the fight is lost it will be too late to do anything other than whine.

Maybe people aren't aware that 5 clerks were already excessed into the maintenance craft at the time of the realignment of the tours. Also maybe have not been told by their union reps that the clerks won the staffing of the LCTS, which is about 10 or 11 jobs on each tour. I wonder if this is only the first wave of excessing and if there will be more after all the NDCs are online and it is known exactly how much mail will be coming through the building then.

I hear Pitts is struggling to stay afloat. They have alot of mail sitting in trucks in the yard. Anyone from there willing to comment wether this is true or not? RumRat is blowing smoke up your arsses about the pretty little stand-by room. Cant you see it now...one day she'll get pissed at a mail handler or her sidekick snitch clerk will tell on you and the room will become RumRats dungeon.........someone pass me a silver bullet, stake, wooden cross, garlic or something to stop that bloodsucking creature on the second floor!

Stick to the facts Echo11. The LTCS has not been awarded to anyone yet. What facility are u talking about first of all.

Guess u just proved my point about not informing members of recent info, b. And it's LCTS not LTCS.

Our facility just took delivery of five new Ford Focus' sedans. They came with goverment license plates. I am guessing that there are plenty more somewhere. This proves that the PO has got money, when we start contract talks next year they better not come to the table looking for concessions.
cc: motor vehicle.

kister is telling everyone that the post office can excess mailhandlers and there is nothing he can do about it as usual kister is doing nothing unlike the other presidents kister just wants to gamble away union money i heard he says hes retiring i wish he do it now hes a waste

just heard that our pres was hospitalized late last night for a heart attack. No word on his condition.

BMC, 2 Kister has sent out a letter to all of us so try reading it. He is fighting excessing but the fight is a difficult one. The days of us beating each other up on message boards must stop and everybody must join the fight. Kister was cleared of all charges so let's move on and deal with what management is doing to us.

I've spoke with Kister on many occasions. He explained to me in specifics about the unions position and what the contract says. I seen it plain as day. Try reading it for a change. I may not have agreed with some of the things Don did but he's involved in this one. Trrust me the other Presidents are bound by the same contract. How many people are going to continue to listen to all the rumors and lies. If you really want to know the truth about anything why not call him directly and stop talking shit.

mailhandler 101 - i couldn't agree more. I called kistner at 10 pm on thursday night at the office and he was there. How many other local presidents are in the office at 10 at night. I have no doubt that these haters are folks like hicks and that whole crew who will never get over things.

Unions can only do what the contract says. Putting up a fight about excessing is a formidable thing to do. In the contract it is written about excessing. It can be done and will be done. Unless management violates, there is not much the union can do. Great post Mailhandler 101. Reading is the key. Nobody likes excessing, but friends of mine are waiting for the shoe to drop on them and others have been uprooted to keep a job. Steward work has never been an easy thing and it is worst now with what is going on. Hang in there.

kister was NOT cleared of the LABOR CHARGES and he is a waste go to Local 300 web site if you want to see what a real union president does. kister did steal the union's money

I have called kister and all i got were lies- now because he is finally showing up (too late) at the bmc -you act like he is doing a good job give me a break kister should of been preparing for these changes as soon as he heard about the bmc changes
again go to local 300 web site to see what a real union president does
and kister does not answer his phone - how quickly you forget

We have a meeting thursday the 27th at 3 pm at local vfw hall, We i mean the cin ndc will learn how many mail handlers will be excessed at this meeting, the last meeting i attended our branch president was slaming down beers while he was given the meeting. The steward to his left had 2 shot glasses of whisky what a joke our union is, these are the people fighting for our jobs and we are in trouble.

bmc2, let me get this correct, in one sentence you say you called kister and got nothing but lies and then you say he never answers his phone, which one is it ? i think everyone here knows that your full of it.

bmc diva busted out bmc 2.

YOU ALL NEED TO WAKE UP AND LOOK AT WHAT GOING ON THEY ARE PLAYING TIC TAC DO WITH THE MAIL LOOK AT THE BMC THERE ARE SO MUCH MAIL IN THERE THAT IT LOOK LIKE NO ONE WORKING .YOU KNOW WHY BECAUSE WE IS RIGHT NOW GETTING NEWJERSEY MAIL AND MANY MORE OUT OF STATE MAIL.WORKING THERE RIGHT NOW WHILE THEY TELL NYB THAT THE ARE GOING TO SHUT DOWN THERE POSTAL OFFICE AND THEM LETTER WHILE EVERYONE WONDER WHO JOB IS WHAT COM TOGETHER AS ONE AND LOOK AT THE MAIL YOU WORK WHEN I ASKED WHY ARE WE GETTING ALL OUT STATE MAIL THAT GOING TO WDC,GBO,ETC THEY DIDNOT KNOW WHY WE WAS GETTING IT PAY ATTENTION AND STOP WITH THE BLAME GAME.THEY ARE SEND THE MAIL POSTAL OFFICE TO POSTAL DELAYING THE CONSUMER MAIL.WE HAVE RELOAD SITTING IN TRUCK BECAUSE THERE NO ROOM ON THE FLOOR TO PUT IT.THAT A FACT SO ALL THIS BACK BITTING AND PLAYING THE NAME BLAME GAME AND START WRITE TO ALL ONE WHO WANT TO HERE YOU AND FOR LTC A LETTER TRAY IS A LETTER TRAY WITH IS A MAILHANDLER JOB BUT WE NEED TO GET AS ON ONE THIS IS OUR COWORKER THEY HAVE TO WORK TO.SO STOP YOUR CRYING AND GET TO WRITING TO CONGRESS AND IF THAT DONT WORK LET GET TOGETHET AS POSTAL WORKER AND MAKE A STAND IM FROM THE BMC AND I GOT A LETTER AND I SEE AND WORK THIS MAIL THEY SAY WE DONT HAVE.

SO WHAT THE UNION NEED TO DO FROM ALL ACCROSS THE UNITED STATES IS GET TOGETHER AND TALK ABOUT WHAT GOING ON IN EACH ONE OF THESE POST OFFICE WHICH THEY HAVE NOT DONE

I couldnt have said it more ignorant myself....

well that the problem negative people like you that dont have shit better to do but talk shit i bet you complain all the time and talk about everybody

Has anybody heard any details of an usps announcement supposed to be made today concerning a cash incentive to retire/resign ?? I am ready to go !!

incentive: $100, and cab fare home.

Just heard $15,000. still not enough !!

This is off the subject by I feel it is importnat enough to pass on.

My daughter who is now working on her PhD at the Un of AZ sent me some information about the Government seizing our retirement accounts. A summary of that article follows:

On Oct 7, 2008, the House Education and Labor Committee, chaired by Rep George Miller, DEMOCRAT from CA, entertained a suggestion by Prof Teresa Ghilarducci that the U S Government seizer 100 percent of assets in 401(k) and other retirement plans, including ours, and replace them with Treasury bonds paying 3 % interest. That upon retirement the bonds would be converted in to an annuity. Upon death, there would be no retirement account assets in the deceased's estate. As of this date there has been no ruling on this suggestion by the committee, meaning that it is still a viable option that is still on the table of the current Obama administration.

No I didn't vote for Obama but this scares the living hell out of me more than his being elected that our Congressional members would even entertain such a thought.

If you doubt what I have posted here, write and ask your Congressional representative about it. You have the date, the committee name, the name of the chair, and the individual who suggest such an option.

If this administration would have the balls to consider the seizure of retirement assets and upon death, since there would be no annuity, keep the assets for themselves, what in the Hell would be next. If this isn't Socialism, I have no idea what it could be.

And for the record, I am loving retirement.

NC mail handler, I have said the same thing myself, about the govt. stealing 401ks from those who saved to bailout those who squandered. It's sad that I wasn't just delusional on this.

Dirty Bastards! They wont get much from mine. Ive borrowed so much they'll probably pass mine up. Ha Ha.

At Phila NDC we are being payed to watch DVD's, listen to music, read newspapers, sleep, play board games every single day since May. This is happening in the PEDC room which is just down the hall from the managers office. If USPS officials would have offered 25 grand a year ago people would have left and money would ultimately been saved. Why would anyone take 15 grand to go out when they can just get a note from their doctor and use up all of their sick leave before they retire?

yes Nc mailhandler I have heard of that also

Better move to China where you can have some real freedoms. Might be able to find a job, out of the millions we've shipped over there.

Because they're saving the 25 grand buyouts for the Postmasters

Does anyone know what the ratio of mailhandlers to clerks at other NDC's that are excessing, at detroit it is 102 MH and 30 Clerks. Yet mailhandlers never go home early and clerks are workin the letter trays and going home early. Also are impact report was done inhouse and these people are upstairs are morons, I wouldnt let them run a dishwasher.

"are impact report was done inhouse and these people are upstairs are morons"? Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

really captain obvious....people are pissed off they have to move 1000 miles away from their families cause things aren't being done correctly and you want to make fun of that?? Anyway, someone please tell me why the BMC in Detroit is the only place being shipped up to 1,000 miles away?

http://www.apwu.org/dept/reg-coor/central/...tdistrict090821.pdf

Hey capt keep getting under those desks I'm sure Management will let u stay. AND MY POST WAS FOR THE WORKERS NOT THE SUCKUP'S.

Edited by author 08-28-2009 02:31 AM
Yeah, well, we had our bullshit meeting today at the Cincinnati BMC, (or NDC, whatever the day is), and it is the same shit as last month. No one knows for sure how many is being excessed, not even our sorry ass branch president, Al Scott. All he did today was talk about the same shit he has been talking about for the past month, and beating his beer bottle as a gavel on the damn table. Talk about being professional, uh AL?? Got mad at me because I questioned why you called this bullshit meeting? Yes, it me, AL! LIZ LYONS. You accused me of writing about last meeting, well guess what, I did write this one, and I am letting you know about it.

Edited by author 08-28-2009 02:30 AM
#1 Mailhandler, It is not too late to try and remove this clump of shit out of his position. If he was facing the same fate as some of the junior people he is screwing, then maybe he would be a little compassionate for the craft.

well keep notes and let congress know enough is enough we have to stick together on this one and the union need to stop withthis back door cutting deals stop messing over these people we are human and we do have life .we have mail they playing game and giving these studip meeting with no anderson we know they reload the mail and put it unto another truck we need stop cry to everyone who would listern be these so called big wig sitting in a office are not to bright let get on one accord yes the union fuck over us and they ass is next we should sue the hell out of all of them

Hey al how do u think your approval ratings are at the cin ndc. I work on the floor and everybody i talk to cant stand your sorry beer drinking lazy ass. What have u done for us lately? Not a dam thing while the clerks are getting ready to be paid about 20,000 per person. Oh i forgot u did do one thing u took Carl Tuck Job from him and reposted it then u bid on it and got it because no one else could get it because u are # 1 mailhandler. Why dont u take the money and retire u only been thier 40 some years and let the younger people step up and have a job. Then we can have a real branch president, one that will fight for our jobs, file grevieances and win something, not one that says management can do that and you are filing frivolus grievieances u never would hear that from the clerks union.

Curious one I feel you, Al scott is a real piece of shit, he lied to us all to get in as branch president so he could do nothing then retire when his time is up because he could not make it on the floor. Hey al scott why dont u be a real man and step down while u can nobody can stand your ass u are the worst branch president we ever had YOU SUCK

We all ran around and said what a sell out Ben Walden was, if we would have only known then what we know now I am sure Al Scott would still be sitting in his little hide away. Hey where are the 100 people that voted for him and see if they will admit it now. Wish we had Ben back.

Edited by author 08-28-2009 09:01 PM
Damn, Cinci sounds just like Detroit. Best of luck to ya. Who knows we all might meet each other if we end up excessed to the same place.

Edited by author 08-29-2009 02:51 AM
Hey guys and girls, let's get our heads together and remove this cancer from the position he now has control of. Smoke him out, I should say. He is the most sorriest, nastiest, foulest,silliest, piece of shit I have ever seen in the BMC, and I been here for 15 1/2 years. Grab a bag of oats, and chow down,you creepy crawler!!!!

det, you can't even begin to know the crap we have been going through. The local president, the branch president, the national president, his aide, all of them do not care about what is going on in our facility. All they care about is lining their pockets with our dues money. Seriously.

Hey people, think about this. A certain mailhandler was put out for 2 years. The same individual returns and runs for branch president, and wins by a small margin. Then the union goes to hell!!!!!!! Could it be that a certain branch president was given special perks to bust the union up??? We have been sold out since he took office. Ah..........something to think about.

How are you folks that are in NDCs working out? Just curious to see how the old BMCs are doing. Any excessing or machines taken out?

We have a couple of DC people here monitoring changes. Asked them if this program (NDC) makes sense? Why not have all NDC's process and then ship to Tier 2's for dock transfer instead of shipping mail unprocessed? How can DSM process from 6-8 different Tier's? For example, Scholastic shipped 1 1/2 trailers of mixed mail to us and we off load it and load it on a DSM trip. Should have seen the look of surprise. Then their reply,"It's not the model that was chosen." Then of course the real answer, "Volume is down and DSM will handle it." This plan might work on the East coast where there are several within a few hrs drive but not out here. The population base is also spread out and not concentrated. Have fun and ask questions!!!!!!

curious one, here in Detroit it's the same! Sorry you have some sorry ass people running your union. Guess it's the same all over. They are sorry ass here too!

Hey union brothers and sisters, I am getting ready to fire up the old word processor again on our branch president. Please, if anyone would like to step up to the plate with me and get this ball rolling, because we don't have much time, please contact me at work or at:

                              curious_one_304@yahoo.com

Thanks in advance, Let's make this work!!!!!!!!!

Tell us how you really feel Liz. (hee hee)

We love ya' and Thanks for standing up to Management for us!

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't stop the dumbass from pissing in it." - The Horse Whisperer

al scott looking out for himself and thats all.

worst dam union i ever been in....

hey curious one
years ago, when Brach Pres Stern was elected, weren't you one of the stewards on Tour 3 who turned your back on the craft and walked out on your "brothers and sisters" because your guy wasn't elected? Stewards from Tour 2 had to go to Tour 3 to continue representation and stop cases from being untimely! New stewards had to be trained and ever since then all you all have done is bitch and cry that your stewards are shit. Gary Stern was the best BP that this installation has had in the 30+ years I've been a dues paying member and you walked out on him, but more importantly, you walked out on dues paying union members!

boss Is that what you meant when you said to Liz, "We love ya and thanks for standing up to Management for us!" Good Grief!

Most MH's at the CBMC have no idea of what it means to be a true Union Member. You will allow the contract to be voided when you benefit from it and you want it upheld when it benefits you. You are not part of a collective bargaining unit. You only think of yourself and your personal gains and profit. Remember, on Tour 2, when they brought North 1 in for off day OT to unload at DW's 35-38 and told Inbound Dock employees NO OT?
When Inbound filed, what did you do? Did you want the contract and specific job duties upheld? Hell no! Shit came out of your mouths like, "We unload more.", "We earned the right to take someone elses OT cause Inbound ain't worth a shit." etc.... The kind of shit and chaos that plagues a non union workplace, you embrace. As long as you're reaping personal gain and benefit, it's "all good". Well, it's NOT "all good". When the OT, which was freeflowing stopped flowing, what did you do? did you want the union to represent all dues paying members by going to a Tour OT List ? Hell no! You went in mass to the Union meeting to keep your OT by screaming to keep the OT List Section first/Tour. And Al was your hero then because he refused to do the right thing and represent all Mail Handlers. Now Al is your chump?

I won't deal with what platform Al ran on and what platform he operates on tonight.....too much reality in one night... I'll be back!

Re:2095 LA ndc is in the process of making the change. HCR's are going right to the dock if a space is available. Most of the drivers aren't unloading yet because they're not ready inside the plant, still working the bugs out. We haven't had any big equipment changes so far. We are getting a lot of new HCR's since the PO started eliminating the rails. Some of the old time HCR drivers are complaining about not getting paid. Usually the PO pays the contractor on time, but money doesn't always get to the drivers like it should. No wonder the PO loves these guys, they probably just wish they could do the same to us.

Edited by author 09-01-2009 04:17 AM
First of all, When Gary took over as Branch President, I was out sick. There was some internal problems with the Stewards that were in office and Gary. I was told that Gary had replaced all the Stewards on Tour III. Secondly, I have always said Gary Stern was one hell of a Steward, and I will say it now! Thirdly, Boss was not the individual that made the comment about standing up to Management. If you can read, that comment was made by the Horse Whisperer. Get your facts straight before you start commenting on things.

Also, I have not had overtime in over 3 years and Pat Kane told me why the 5 to 130 people were not included in the overtime rotation given to tour III, therefore, I did not file a grievance. Something else you do not have your facts correct on.

You know who I am....why don't you take your balls out of your pockets,
 man up and reveal yourself?? Although, I think I know who you are.....maybe the same individuals that did some foul stuff to a certain Mailhandler and involved me in it, trying to create some shit where there was none.

And as for me turning my back on my "brothers and sisters", why do I have so many individuals from your tour and tour III asking me for advice? But I don't have to waste my time talking to an individual who won't even reveal themselves. I will say this. Of all the comments made about your buddy Al Bundy, you pick mine to jump on..........interesting. Do you think you are, in some way, intimidating me? I THINK......NOT!!!!!!!!!! And for the record, AL SCOTT WAS NEVER MY HERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wilber.....

When Gary Stern was elected AVP years ago at the Cincinnati BMC, he posted "Help Wanted" signs in the Local 304 Mail Handler's Union bulletin boards on the workroom floor, soliciting members that were interested in becoming shop stewards on Tour Three.

When a shop steward from T-3 asked Local 304 President Mr. James Bell what was going on, Bell confirmed that AVP-Elect Stern had in fact requested that the Tour 3 shop stewards be de-certified and replaced by members selected by Stern. And that President Bell had granted Stern's request.

Upon learning their fate, the shop stewards resigned, turning over all Union property and case files. Stern was more than capable to take over and delegate any necessary action to continue dutiful representation with the aid of the numerous Tour 2 stewards through schedule changes, his replacement stewards, and by himself, a tour three employee. This is what he wanted and this is what he got.

After being informed that they were no longer wanted or needed to serve as union representatives, the Tour 3 shop stewards did what any person with character and conviction would do. They left where they were not wanted.

These proud Labor Representatives never took any shit from the United States Postal Service and weren't going to take any from Bell and Stern.

No one turned their back on anyone. Gary brought in the ex-204B's, and lazy, worthless, management rats & stooges.

The CBMC MH union membership has decided for over the last twenty years, that the Local Memorandum of Understanding would state that the scheduling of overtime shall be by section and (then) tour.

And I too, Thank You, Ms. Lyons for your years of dedicated service... standing up to management and fighting for us ALL! We Thank You and think the world of you Liz!

Some one needs a "Reality Check" and an industrial strength enema, because they are full of shit!

Thank you, Mr. Ed.

I understand the frustration. This curent branch president is aweful. He only cares about himself and a few of his buddies. The contract is twisted everyday and nobody can do anything because the local president is a joke. Past settlements mean nothing, and grievances now are not even filed if the "Horseman" dont approve. Stewards can not even do their jobs to serve the membership or they will be removed. Seems they like their position more than their integrity. Whomever is next elected will have his/her hands full trying to repair what is being done to facility. Be careful what you wish for. When you elect a 70 year old wife beater, child abuser, and idiot to be your branch presisent believing he has changed, you get what you deserve. More of the same as his first go round only worse now. Now maybe you realize that Ben wasnt so bad afterall. Its unreal how many Scott supporters hate him now. Whats more unreal is that they believed he changed in the first place. Have solice though in knowing that in Al's time of death he will be alone.(even though he spends most of his day at work on dating forums) Pretty bad when your own kids wont even talk to you.

And don't forget, an alcoholic!!!

  For those interested in NDC operations new developments are on the horizon.We are in the midst of "training" sessions at our facility that are supposed to give us some insight into what will transpire as our transition from BMC to tier 3 NDC occurs.The situation does not look promising.There seems to be very little legitimate substance in what is being done.Besides generating new acronyms,signs,buzzwords and meaningless charts,the program consists of a collection of half-baked ideas and hair-brained schemes.We are going forward to obsorb the outgoing mail from four other BMCs,and this will apparently be accomplished using only smoke and mirrors.Couple this with the fixation on the incredibly wasteful and inane scanner and placarding program,and we have a true recipe for disaster.There will be plenty of OT for those that want it,and also for those that don't.This plan will not crash and burn,it will burn before it even gets off the ground.As a side note we were told that we might be joined by some additional "passengers" from Detroit in our new venture.Let me be the first to say to them,"welcome aboard".

Just wondering X....your in Pittsburgh right? I'm sure it is a nice city...but I hope I don't have to go. My family & friends....my life is here. Here in Detroit they are telling us there is no place to go so don't worry. I wish they would just tell it to us straight. Bunch of damn liars!!

I hear Al Scott is going to take the retirement offer, thank god, better days lie ahead for the union. Now we can put these bad days behind us because it cant get any worse than is has been lately.

We could only hope so, but until Bell is gone this local will never have a chance. The "Horseman" is only one piece of the puzzle.

Edited by author 09-02-2009 01:31 PM
Could we start a new board called the "Cin and Det NDC whine about their crappy union board" and get back on track with the universal NDC issues on this board? The place for your pissing and moaning is in house, not on a national board. Also if you are angry with your union representation, then get involved! Take steward training and if you can't become stewards under the current regime, then run against them! This message is not intended for dedicated former stewards forced out by the current regime, but for those whinners who have never attempted to become a steward, and bitch about those who have. This is also not an anti-mail handler message as the same advice goes out to clerks who bitch abot their representation, it's just that I hear so much more of it coming from mail handlers.

I was wondering too that if these people work together do they ever talk to one another. I transferred to a facility where the contract was rarely followed. Yes, I became a steward and it was hard. Did it for 5 years, others stepped up and things are OK. I am retired now but the fight continues and management calls the stewards "BULLDOGS!"

Curious One > You are absolutely correct and I apologize. You were not the female steward that walked when Stern was elected. Mills certified her as a PTF. When she was asked why she stated, that being a new steward, she didn't know what to do so she went with the rest.

At our last meeting the Union updated us on our transition from Cinti BMC to the Cinti NDC in relation to excessing in the future. TTO's - 14, Mail Handlers - 23, and the Clerk Craft may be adding a position. Management submitted these numbers up to the next level for review and should be looking at it this week and making a decision to accept or not. Employees retiring before implementation will subtract from these numbers and minimize or eliminate the need to excess. Both Unions were advised of these "proposed numbers ". Matter of fact, the APWU emailed and paper mailed this information to their members as a courtesy and to update their members on what the future may look to be. Our union should have done the same, or posted this info on our bulletin board rather than call a meeting. But, contrary to what Curious One feels, this info needed to be brought to the craft. There is no reason to be left in the dark until the union gets "required notification" of excessing which will be made no less than 6 months in advance of proposed excess date. Affected employees are to be notified no less than 60 days before implementation. Which seems to imply that no Mail Handler will be excessed before March 2010.

The Cin NDC is looking to go from the existing 2 tours to 3 tours. The major tour would ensure that all aspects concerning the finalization of the Priority Mail processing would be complete by tours end. The next largest tour would encompass the processing of our Destinating mail. Mail we process to our service area. And the mini-tour will be utilized to set up the Priority run and make sure they have the equipment and whatever else needs to be in place to begin Priority Operations.

Starting times for these tours have not been finalized. The open window for start of tour 2 is between 0300-1100 hours. This could be 0900-1730 for tour 2 and for Tour 3 1700-0330 or 1900-0530 with the mini tour overlapping and filling the void. This is all conjecture at this point. The NDC mgmt team is coming in early Oct.

Work Centers staffing and responsibilities will change based on the needs of our change to NDC. Mgmt IS discussing moving the originating priority from the APPS Machine to the LBS Machine. If that is the case, then the NMO Operation would go back to Tour 2 due to the hours that we're going to process the Priority.

Mgmt has frozen our bids. The last Mail Handler bid sheet will go into effect on Sat, 9/12/09.

*** I'm sure that ALL is subject to change......

There's a faint cloud of smoke hovering over the Det. NDC. Word is Dumblap has seen her final days there. Turns out she had 307 Pres. tossed out of a town hall meeting after she stated " i'm going to get this white mother fu... out of here". During the same meeting she called a union official vagina not once, not twice but throughout the meeting. Kister refuses to let it go. Wouldnt you know it the Ghetto queen takes off time due to..are you ready for this? STRESS!!!!!!! Hold up wait a minute. Can we see if she has FMLA hrs.,documentation, substantiation, a Dr.s note stating " totally incapacitated". Ok, Ok I can hear the soft hearted, weak, head in the clouds people saying.. Aww thats not nice. Well you know what? If you werent one of her elite suck asses hiding from work on the second floor you wouldnt have a clue what its like to deal with her spineless supervisors, shivering, farting and holding thier breathe waiting for her to tell them they can breathe again. Afraid of making a decision on their own.Well we'll soon have Big Bad Tom back and you know what before I give him too much credit I'll wait to see how long it will take him to be smart enough to admit he's stupid. Hey Scabskin, smile, Tom will at least put lipstick on ya while he's banging you in the dark corridors you hide in upstairs. I think its time to call in that favor. But who ya gonna call now genious? Go ahead and take the early out. Thats if you can pry your lips of managements ass.

Thank you, Reality. That all I was trying to get across when Al tried to evict me from the meeting! Apology accepted!!

are there any trier2 postal worker on here how is the mail in your building and cin what trier is you and kansa how is your mail flow

ditto 2119....any Tier 1 NDC's out there with info. Still waiting for the 14th when AtlNDC will make their move to a tier 1 facility. of course I'll be on leave that week and won't get to watch HQ in action until the 21st, hopefully all the bugs will be worked out by then. Might be sometime in Oct before I have any real figures on excesing and tour changes.

Al Scott is all for himself He only will stand up for his buddys and the old timers. I still can't belive that one mail handler at the BMC stands up for him. It's the only person I ever seen speek out of both sides of his mouth at the same time. I wish he would take the money and let some clean up his mess.

Haven't heard from Jarhead from DSM in awhile; must be too busy. Most of our mail is being sent to DSM for processing (about 10 trailers a day). Heard rumor that they are swamped and haven't even started taking any other Tier 1's mail yet. Rumor is 10 clerks, 50 mailhandlers, 2 MVS will be excessed. Plt Mgr says just rumors but there will be some impact, just don't know #'s right now. Inbound/oubound ops is going to 24 hr operations (mail processing will stay @ 2 tours). Tour 2 will be changing start times from 0700 to 0930 in near future; rebidding of jobs!!!!

ok kansas at the det we are sending kansas mail to chicago.we send spg ,phil to new jesery and instead of making the truck a 100 percent for one one city we leave it on the floor and they wonder why it not showing up when we scan and why it take 24 then it expired that because it been left on the floor that why it inporation for everyone to scan every piece of mail because scanning dont lie.

CDNTED.... YOU ARE HILARIOUS ,THAT WAS FUNNY ,HOWEVER SO TRUE!!!!

cdnted - absolutely true, however, dunlap was put out by the district manager. Although i guess you could say that she is out on stress. She finally bit off more than she could handle and is paying the consequences.

Has anyone heard of them closing some tier 1 NDC's and spliting the mail between the other NDC's. And where is the chicago NDC now. Did anyone scrape all the 2nd floor asslickers off dumblap before she flew away on her broom. DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hey kc bmc yes been busy keying all the scholastic book orders you have been sending us.Had 2 hours overtime tonight after very busy day.But they are bringing in small crews for the holiday weekend.Only 3 clerks working Monday.Tons of changes going on daily.They have changed hours on everyone and sounds like could change again after we get all the mail.I am keying 4 hours aday as compared to maybe 4 hours a week just last month.MDO wants 1000 pieces a hour but our scanners dont read shit.You scan apiece and it dont read the line shuts down.We could sure use help if mail volume increases like this week.Anyone from KC gonna get sent this way.

jarhead, sounds like your ETs need to get busy on them scanners! I met one of them once, he was bragging how much sleep he gets every night at work. Hope that changes!

Does anyone else have the VIMS system on their hi-los or tow tractors. Its a small box attached to the equipment that tracks distance, speed, load weight, time on and time off. It was brought here at at the Det NDC at least 6yrs ago. Management has used it to determine speed during an accident, how productive the driver is, etc.... The question often arises just how accurate are these devices. I know managemet is using the data to determine how many hi-los and tow tractors they need and of course noone is considering the down time when there is a systems jam, dumper down,etc... so my advice is not to jump on any equipment that has this box on it unless you are a bidded driver otherwise management will never post level 5 jobs.

I know who you are ftpo and great minds think alike that's been the theme song i've been singing since I've heard the news

I would like to know why the whiners & ass kissers run and tell the superviors every little thing when they can't get their way? The kicker is....they are the biggest supporter of the union. I work with the biggest idiot. He thinks he can do whatever he wants(union thing) but if something doesn't go his way he runs to the supervisor. Just venting...but damn! Makes you want to slap the shit out of him! With all the changes going on you would think he would worry about more important stuff.

kc bmc... come on over to the kcmo p&dc... mh's are getting 12 a day now since the FSS's are up and running. automation clerks and fsm's are getting daily ot too and 6th days a week. ching ching ching!

kansas you say you doing overtime what trier are you,AND who this other city that got all this mail because mail much be everywhere there a old saying what man does for evil God make good tell everyone you know to take one week to get down on there knees and pray that God would keep the mail flooding in these ndc lets see God work on our behalf to all my postal family keep your head up dont get stress it just a test God will bring us through this trail we going throw let keep praying family because with man they will always fell you but with God all things is possible thank God for sending his son for our need PRAY PRAY UNTIL SOMETHING HAPPEN GOD BLESS IN JESUS NAME AMEN

   How many doors does Des Moines have? I am curious, since we are swamped with mail in St. Louis. Volume ahs picked up from a trickle to a flood. Lots of OT. I thought being a tier one was the kiss of death. Penny for your thoughts anyone...

st.louis you all are doing overtime and you are going to be trier one what really going i know God is working it out

At cincinnati ndc we are working ot since thrusday and coming in at 4am on tuesday. I wonder where all the mail is coming from the tags are from demoines I guess they can not keep up with the volume. Looking forward to see when we are a tier I and all the causal are gone.

DSMndc has 106 dock doors.

   Thanx Jarhead.

Den and DSM, What's going on w/ your MVS yard spotters? Some HCR here w/ "live loads" being allowed to back in, come into bldg. w/ employee badge that even let's them in, and secure their own load. Even have a driver that tells me what he will take and what he won't. Rumor here is we will have only one spotter per tour.

CSC Wins $46 Million U.S. Postal Service Contract to Manage and Operate Detroit Service Center

What is this all about????

Story here:

http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/17...source=r_technology

 This CSC contract is for container repair & supplies, which we used to do in house if you've been around long enough to remember. I remember driving down to the BMC to pick up equipment. It actually worked better that way, because when they switched over to out sourcing we had trouble getting certain things, when we needed something we just went and got it. Not anymore, we were left to either scrounge it up on our own or use the closest thing we could find until the next scheduled delivery. So we, along with other P&DC's, started keeping our own secret supplies off the record and built a shadow supply chain. What idiots we work for, then the PO gives them a special achievement award and a new contract too. The PO told us CSC is cheaper, that's what it is all about cheap labor like WalMart or China. Mgt doesn't care if we, the employees, don't make enough money to afford anything nice. We're over paid according to them, well, if we're overpaid then mgt is really overpaid but they don't see it that way of course, what a**holes

thanks for your second response Top TTO i take it your first one wasnt as pleasant one. Thanks again

heard donnie kister is going to jail - ha ha - they just didn't catch me - ha ha

Change your name. Its outdated just like your humor and accusations. (*)
                                                  as*hole

WHAT THIS NAME CALLING YOU GUY WORRY ABOUT THE WRONG STUFF THAT JUST SHOW WHERE YOUR IQ IS SO WHAT DON GO TO JAIL,AND YOU DIDN'T YOU GUY WOULD FUCK OVER THE DAM PEOPLE AND THINK THAT SHIT IS FUNNY WELL GUEST WHAT YOU WILL REAP WHAT YOU SO AND BELIEVE ME ALL OF YOU AND I MEAN ALL OF YOU ARE GOING TO GET WHAT YOUR ASS DERSEVE SO THAT NAME CALL KEEP IT AND PUT ALL THAT ENGERY TO WORK FOR THE PEOPLE YOU GET TO VOTE YOUR ASS IN AND THEN YOU FUCK OVER THEM THAT SHIT MUST STOP SO GET TO WORK ON ALL THIS SHIT THAT GOING ON

Dear -wake up postal worker-

Unfortunately, we are getting mixed messages from you.
In /m2133 you were praying and blessing...
In /m2146 you are damning and cursing.
Please make up our minds about your life view.
Are you a God fearing man/woman or just plain mixed up?
Perhaps you are a union steward?
Maybe an ex-union steward?
This would explain a lot.

Also, let's talk a little bit about internet etiquette:
It's OK to use no punctuation.
It's OK to have incomplete sentences.
It's OK to have run-on sentences.
It's OK to misspell every other word.
It's OK to say any old ignorant thing you have the urge to say.
These literary errors make it hard for us to understand exactly what you are attempting to communicate; but, it's OK.
However, IT'S NOT OKAY TO PUT EVERYTHING IN CAPS LIKE YOU ARE SCREAMING AT US!!!!

Have a nice day,
M

Maybe he was SCREAMING AT US!!!!

I hate to admit this, but "wake up postal worker" maybe a member of my craft, a mail handler who has out lived his usefulness. Management must have accessed him to a new place where the can't find a place to sleep it off till the tour is over. If not, then he is a Branch President that got voted out because he never did a damn thing except yell at everyone that he was the only one right about everthing.

May God have mercy on my craft.

My Opinion

Dear Martha, now that's my kind of woman.

WELL THAT TELL ME WHERE YOU AT,MAYBE IF YOU WOULD STOP TALKING ABOUT EVERYBODY AND PUT THAT ENEGERY TO WORK ON WHAT THE REAL PROBLEM IS THEN MAYBE YOU NEED TO LOOK IN THE MIRROR BECAUSE SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH YOU YES THE UNION SCREW OVER ALL OF US AND THERE DAY IS COMMING BUT RIGHT NOW WE HAVE BIGGER PROBLEM WHERE WE NEED TO PUT ALL THAT ENEGRY TOGETHER AND FIGHT WHAT GOING ON NO I WAS NOT HALLOWING BUT IT IS A SHAM THAT UNION OFFICIAL ARE LAUGHING HOW ONE IS GOING TO JAIL AND OTHER GOT AWAY FREE.THAT IS OUR MONEY AND THE JOKE IS ON UNION MEMBER WHO MONEY THAT ARE TAKING AND NOT DOING NOTHING FOR US AND EVEN GOD PEOPLE GET A LITTLE UPSET BUT I KNOW HOW TO ASK FORGIVINESS AND MORE ON WHAT ABOUT YOU?

Edited by author 09-15-2009 02:17 PM
Dear -wake up postal worker-

Excellent, excellent.
Asking forgiveness after the first session is certainly a positive sign.
Yes, you are forgiven.
We are making progress.

The next step is to identify that pesky little "Caps-Lock" key.
On the left-hand side of your keyboard (you do know left from right? well, we will assume you do) located between the "SHIFT" and "TAB" keys is a little button called (you guessed it!) "Caps-Lock".
Press it once.
Press it a couple more times to watch the light go on and off.
When the light is ON you are SCREAMING AT US!!!
Make certain the light is off and you can tell us all about your perception of the "real problem" without SCREAMING AT US!!!
We will even listen.

note: if the next few words you type are SCREAMING AT US!!!! you may need to seek "Cap-Lock Therapy" from a professional.

Have a nice day,
M

How many mailhandlers are on standby regularly at the Det BMC??

The rumor in my plant is over 100 doing nothing everyday and mega excessing coming. Is that true?

Somebody give me the real story.....many of the posters must work there.


Thanks

no one is in the stand by room yet. Looks like it will happen but it was empty today.

YOU VERY FUNNY

MUST BE A MAILHANDLER LOL

yo Elvis.......that volume in memphis pickin up yet?

In Detroit they have been doing random standby time for clerks. If the sorters shut down they put us on for an hour or two. One supervisor still expects you to work on standby. Today was the first day 8 to 10 clerks were on standby for a full 8 hours.

Please tell me that nobody worked while on standby. Stand up for yourselves now people or there will be no tomorrow.

No, nobody has......

I wish they would transfer some of the standby folks to my facility. Over the last 4 years, 5 people have left. We are working so short and we are sick of it. So busy excessing folks hundreds of miles away and here we are struggling 20 miles away. Where are the brains in this organization?

Suze...where exactly are you working?

Hi I am a ptf clerk in a small office in the Detroit District. Today in a standup the supervisor said that in October all of the people in the standby room in Detroit are going to be sent to offices such as ours to take our positions. Is this what you are also being told. Sometimes she makes shit up to rile us up. How many people are being excessed out of Detroit and are in these standby rooms?

AO carrier, no one is taking your position, just your hours. You'll still be there working 4 hours a pay period. Management needs to put these regulars somewhere, and they don't care if they starve out the PTFs, in fact it's probably part of their plan to reduce the workforce. I'm not saying it's right, just reality.

It's really ok with me. I've got less than 3 years in here and am a full time student. Looking to get the heck outta here! I'll have my degree in March. I'd rather be able to keep working the 20-30 hours/week I'm doing now, but if not I'll go for unemployment to make up the difference. Right after I started working here I decided there's no way in hell I could stay here as a career and it gave me the push to listen to my folks and go to school!

I'm glad you have options but I doubt if you can collect unemployment while you are a PTF. The PT stand for part time not unemployed, and if you quit you might not get unemployment then either.

LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!!!!!!!!!! In the white collar corner wearing red, white and blue trunks weighing in at over paid and unqualified is the P.O. champion. In the blue collar corner weighing in at doing more with less is the challenger. Let the bout begin. The challenger comes in with a Postal Accountability Law that stuns the challenger but the challenger throws No Subcontracting jab that sends the champ back a step. The champ reaches back and comes back with a NRP uppercut that catches the challenger unexpectedly. The challenger looks like he's in trouble but comes back and catches the champ with a sharp counter Reasonable Accomidation and American Disability Act. ( End of round one ) Ding, ding! The champ starts round two aggesively with Stand By Room jabs that begins to tire the challenger. Then Excessing, Cutting hrs.,creating havoc and provoking uncertainties and fear dancing around the ring taunting the challenger but the challenger wont go down. Just when it seems the champ has him where he wants him one of the trainers hollars out "get that white motherfu**** out of there", another trainer begans to yell out lies and accusations in a slanderous fashion. The referee rules to toss out the trainer and begans to stare at the other undecided what to do. All the while the challenger is resting on the ropes catching his breathe. ( End of round two) Ding, Ding!!! Round three begins with a new trainer at ring side along with a new assistant. Both fighters bounce to and fro feeling each other out. Outside you can hear the Ghetto parade starting with the Queen Bee waving at an empty street except for one lonely figure, Mr. Scabskin, hoping to get that last taste of ass clutching on to the float being dragged down the street on his knees. An all too familiar position for him. Speaking of ass the second trainer in quesion has a liking, licking, either or as well and demands a turn. With her back baring the brunt of her success she finds herself in a new position. Attempting to use her wit and knowledge. Sorry neither exist. Never did never will. Theres always a newer younger piece of meat just ask Mr. Trainer. Come on everybody knows, its public information. Meanwhile back in the ring the no punches are landing. A few near misses but its about to get heated up again....to be continued

None of us want AO Carrier getting bad info.
I suspect unemployment is a viable option under the circumstances described.
Where are those wonderful un-Union Stewards when you need one?
Someone with credible knowledge needs to weigh in here on the unemployment issue.

if you are a PTF and not reaching your average hours per pay period which are those hours averaged over the previous 12 month period you can apply for under-employment.

YouTube posting about Postal Excessing
I came across this link and would like everyone to go and look at it. Then pass it onto their friends. I enjoyed it and I think you will also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x...h? v=xVxBYY8GyWo
Posted by Marion Williams at 10:30 AM

Postal Excess video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVxBYY8GyWo

does anyone know what this grievance was about?


http://charlotteapwu.com/docs/Casual%20Settlement.pdf

Casual In Lieu Of (CILO)

Can anyone from Pittsburgh let me know how things are going? In Detroit we are hearing that next week they are cutting back on the number of trucks we are sending to you. Is there too much mail to handle?

How is everthing at the Des Moines NDC? Are you keeping up with the mail volume?

  So far there is not any noticable increase in the volume at the Pitt NDC.Short hours where available Mon,Tue,and Weds.so far this week.Everyone is wondering where all of the predicted increase is at.

At the Det NDC we are into the second week of the process. We are seeing more standby time being used. More people in "the room". Heard they are going to abolish bids and assign new n/s days to those who received excess letters. I also heard rumor that in Pittsburgh 200 casuals were hired to help move the mail. How true is that?

 They wanted to hire 32 casuals at the Pitt NDC.They could not get all that they wanted because of a lack of interest in a job that only pays about $9.00 per hr.I think they got maybe 20 some all together.

The people whos N/S days are to be changed are those that are gettting abolishment letters not excess letters. There are also those people that are being sent to the room on a daily basis due to lack of mail volume. Keep in mind that these are two seperte catagories of people affected. The rumor regarding casuals in Pitts. is most likely not true however if it is the unnion should be preparing for it. CILO.
APWU recently won a CILO case that paid 1,700,000. in N.Carolina. Keep your eyes and ears open people and most importantly go to your Branch meetings prepared with questions you want answered. Peace

Sorry for those that are unfamiliar with CILO- it means "casuals in lieu of" just wanted to make sure everyone understood what I was talking about. Peace

  We were told last week that we would be sending our NDC mail to Des Moines and Memphis instead of Des Moines and Pitt.

 Thats from St. Louis.

i just don't understand how management can take so many people life and turn it upside down and the union are sitting back and letting them i work at the detroit ndc and they let the golden boy jesie tell them who should sit in the room where is gary hick,and derick white when you need them oh yeah we vote them out.and for what to get people who only care about their self they forgot about the union hard working people who trying to make a living please somebody tell me what is really going on why have nobody step in and say enough is enough of this bullsit.only thing union think they did right is get rid of mrs. dunlap damn all those year she,at least she fought for us.come virgina get off your ass and put the skill you claim you got to work and don stop mike from having meeting without you with his back door deal ass.please somebody help

  Smudge,we got the same information in Pittsburgh.We will not be getting the ST. Louis mail,it instead will be routed to Memphis.

BMC worker, do you ever give the union a statement when your supervisor or 204b does craft work? Do you go to union meetings? Have you called your branch president or local president to find out what they are doing?

#2181 sorry my bad. I do know the difference, it just was a rumor yesterday, now it is fact. I have more info today. Seems to me that the P.O. cannot abolish bids without informing the union before hand. Why were people told to report for VOE and then when they got there were told the real reason for meeting? Your bids are abolished starting 9/26. Hey that's tomorrow...how do you prepare for this?

the union seat with you and watch the 204b and superviser work that should be statement enough and you write a statement they put it in a draw and leave it.this have been told by one of their steward he write it up and they pit it in a drawer.we in detroit don't have meeting the last me they close it just before we went to afternoon, judy asked for the statement and don got mad and hear this throw her out and closed the meeting and they have not call another one.so virginia because i now this you,stop lieing to the people,talk let us know

Where is jarhead or anyone from Des Moines? Rumor here in KC from an HCR driver is that DSM has about 160 trailers in yard that have not been unloaded yet. TRUE? We are sending alot of mail to be processed which we could handle. Also heard that a plant manager somewhere refused to send mail to DSM stating that "our people need work also."

hey that the spirit

That is not true Kc in Des Moines we are not leaving trailers in the yard

bmc worker.. you guys voted in mendez and you blame virginia? why? mendez is the bp and you dont want him meeting with management? elections coming up you know

Hey KC what is up?Some days we are busy some not.Some regular clerk bid holders have been sent out of area while new casual clerks work our area.We have only 3 primary key stations running presently mostly other NDC mail.They are having us key/scan anything that will go nmos and sprs.Getting some ot Thursdays-Saturday.Sun -Wed usually slow.We are losing about 7or8 clerks on the 15000 retirement but seeing lots of casuals lately.Will try to find more info this week.Trying to sort out what is fact and rumor.Take care.

Also Jarhead found out this week gonna be a granddad next April.Thought I would throw out some good news tonight.

KC, We are not even getting much more than that many trailers alone leaving that.

Hmmm....sounds like Memphis and Des Moines should be getting hit with mail, where is it? Maybe parked in trailers somewhere?

no, kister won't let mendez go to the meetings. as for hicks he's an idoit and thief just like kister only hicks didn't get caught. as for virginia she only knows how to bad mouth mendez she still a steward so she should be filing grievances for us but no she only tells any one who will listen to her that everything is mendez fault she is useless heard kister had to get a lawyer for stealing union money

It seems so typical that when the ship is sinking everybody spends more time trying to blame the captain rather than trying to band together and find a solution. Listen up everybody. Most of things that are happening fall under the catagory of interpretation of the language of the National Agreement. I can admit that until all this crap began I never read my contract. I listened to everything the Hicks's, White's, Shelton's, Staton's,Szugyi's,Barynus's told us. I totally believe that management is cracking it open for the first time as well. And as sad as it is they're using our own gray area language against us. We bitch and moan about having to work outside our bidded jobs like spoiled ass kids. Go ask one of the poor PTFs if it would matter to them. What the hell has happened to us? Dont get me wrong and start blazing your keyboard. If working out of your bid is done in violation of the Agreement Im not saying its right Im just referring to Art. 7 (insufficiant work). Go ahead pick up the little blue book some time. If it bites you hopefully it'll wake your ass up and get your head out of your ass. My point is stop listening and find out for yourself. Call Mendez, call Don, READ THE BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get a copy of the CIM( Contract Interpretation Manual ), it breaks it down in laymans terms.

Bravo !!

food for thought for everyone, with kister retiring, the rumor is that berrien will be running against the guy from grand rapids. From what i have heard, berrien should be the choice. Anyone else have a point of view on this

well said rant and rave!

Sad Sad time for us all. My thought on the union: If they don't know what's going on then they need to tell us that. What can they do for us really? Right now we all need to be grateful that we can't be laid off. What is ranting and raving going to do. We don't have the volume we had and they don't need the manpower that is employed. WE do need to band together but what kind of solution could we come up with? REALLY!! Those that can retire and not be penalized should do so to save those of us who have young families. If you have worked 40 years........I think it's time to go.

So true rant and rave....so true. That is the problem in a lot of plants. Things have changed. Some folks can remember when a casual was just a casual. Now that the casuals are placed by "crafts", management is doing what they know they can or at least think they can do. At my facility, rules were broken for years. Now that there is talk about excessing, other facilities closing down and coming here, everybody is up in arms. However, these same problems were ignored a few years back when we were exploding with mail and the stewards had no support. Now these same people run to the steward every chance they get. And management is aware of all of this. What a shame.

Detroit NDC: you state that we must band together, then state that older workers should retire to save those of us with young families. We can't make financial decisions for other people because we don't have all of their information. I am sure there are those who would like to go but may not be able to afford it for whatever reasons. Also, they don't owe us a thing. All employees were recently made an offer to retire or resign, so if you feel the job isn't secure enough for you, you had the opportunity to leave with an incentive and go where your future looked brighter. That being said, let's say we must band together and mean it...REALLY.

Hi everyone all postal worker let make a postal day. That the day that every postal worker that can go down to our congress building and make a statement that we are tried of the abuse from union and managerment.If we pick one day and pass it around we can let our voice be heard and will know we all not lie about what going on.So how about it my family in the postal service clerk,mailhandler it don't matter we all been affected lets fight back ,forget this talk back and forward let show them we are people too.hallow back all postal worker we need one from every postal office to shot the word out and get back time is running out.

I say let's give English as a Second Language classes to postal workers..

let start with your dumb ass

Get a room, you two.

any other Tier 1 ndc's out there having their custodians spending 2 hours a day every day in the "stand-by" room?

What is a stand-by room? I've heard other facilities mention it too, but in KC we don't have such a thing..at least I don't think we do

It's a room where you come in and stand around.Just like when you're on work floor,don't do much just standing around.

Thanks Boss. I knew you would like my idea of our workers getting paid to do nothing like we do. I want the promotion to VP of Waste. PLEASE????

Edited by author 10-01-2009 03:53 PM
This pertains to the Cincinnati NDC, Mail Handlers. On 9-30-09 Branch Pres. Al Scott and Plant Mgr Caproni signed two MOU's concerning bid job duties. One was done within the National Contract > Agreeing that the West Dock duties would be changed from the South Outbound Dock WC and moved to the Secondary Floor WC. This dock is located at the back end of the existing Secondary Floor work area. Bid jobs for each work center will remain the same. The second MOU is a direct violation of the National Agreement, Art. 12. The North Outbound 1 WC encompassing DW's 35-58 is being abolished. Inbound Docks WC, instead of reading DWs 1-34 will be expanded to read DW's 1-58. No violation yet. NOW HERE'S THE VIOLATION > THE SEVEN OUTBOUND DOCK POSITIONS ARE BEING ABSORBED INTO INBOUND DOCK WC. ONLY 2 OF THE 7 POSITIONS ON THAT DOCK ARE FOR MEO'S TO UNLOAD TRAILERS! THE OTHER 5 BID POSITIONS ARE WORDED NORTH OUTBOUND CONTAINER LOADER POSITIONS. UNLOADING IS NOT IN THEIR JOB DUTIES. THIS CONSTITUTES MORE THAN A 50% CHANGE IN JOB DUTIES AND REQUIRES THOSE JOBS TO BE REPOSTED FOR BID! IF YOUR BRANCH PRESIDENT FOLLOWS AND REPRESENTS THE CONTRACT. I AM BEING DENIED THE OPPORTUNITY TO BID TO A LEV 5 POSITION WHILE MY UNION VIOLATES THE CONTRACT AND AWARDS THOSE POSITIONS TO JUNIOR MAIL HANDLERS THAT ARE AT LEAST 100 MH'S JUNIOR TO ME! I am in the top 30 on the seniority roster and am being denied the opportunity to bid on two MEO-5 driving positions with Sun/Mon off-days while my union gives these jobs to two MH's more than 100 junior to me! 5 jobs in all. BULLCRAP, AL SCOTT! When do i get the opportunity to properly bid on a Level 5 position per my seniority for my high 3? Also, this same scenario will adversely affect Mail Handlers on Tour 3. Al, what was it you promised in your campaign? To uphold the CONTRACT. You've been in there for two years now! When are you going to fulfill anything you said in your campaign?

This morning, Branch President Al Scott informed us that he is not going to take the 15,000 and retire at 83%. I guess he feels like he's needed to get us through this transition to NDC (Tier 1 ++). God help us all! Thought you all on Tour 3 would want to know about this exciting news!

So let's see if we got this right? You want to take someone's meo bid away from them, and put the same meo bid up so you can bid on it? What a guy or girl?

 
TITLE Mail Handler Equipment Operator PS5
 


  Notebook Image

 
 
  Translation Image

 
 
STD POSITION DESCRIPTION U. S. Postal Service MAIL HANDLER EQUIPMENT OPERATOR, MH-05 FUNCTIONAL PURPOSE Operates a jitney, fork-lift or pallet truck for the movement of mail, and performs other mail handler functions as required. DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES

I knew it. I knew it!!!!!!!

12.3

B7 Change in duty assignment, as specified below, will require reposting:

   B7a A 50% change in duties (actual duties performed).

Container Loader duties involve manning the container loaders and loading outgoing mail and floor mail into the van.

Inbound Duties involve unloading vans and some induction of mail into the system.

It's the duties performed, not whether you drive a forklift or not.

The fact is that the N Outbound WC is being abolished and those doorways are now part of Inbound Docks. Their bid duties have been abolished.

The reason we're in such sad shape is Mail Handlers ONLY want to go by the contract when it benefits you. When it doesn't......you don't want anything to do with the contract. Those people would have the same right to bid on those jobs, as I would. Bidding is also in Art. 12, if you weren't aware.

Hey Curious One if we had a Local President or even a Vice President that cared at all don't you think they would have been out to see what this " Idiot" is doing to us? Well we might get to see them at the end of next year you know they will be up for re-election. Or it might be that the 70plus year old man has them scared also. All I can say is all we can do is hold on and hope and pray for the best.Hey Al why don't you get a desk in Marksbarry's office because you sure are playing right into his hands, oh thats right you gus are best of bud's

RealityCheck: Ok, one more time then that's it. A MEO operator drives a walk ride a mule and loads mail and unloads mail with a fork lift. The employees in the work center you want to take the bids away, will be doing the same thing when they get their new door ways That is why they get level 5 and you get level 4. Their MEO duties are not changing.

Des Moines Tier 3 NDC is overwhelmed with OUR mail and Kansas City's mail.
This week end M/SP NDC STOPS sending our mail to Des Moines because they have to "clean up" the mess BEFORE they get Chicago and Cincinnati Primary mail. That little NDC CANNOT handle any volume at all. To top that off their primary only has one sorter and their scanners don't work worth a crap. Their SSIU has over 50% reject rate due to poor maintenance. Who ever convinced Washington D.C. to make Des Moines a Tier 3 NDC should get the salesman of the year award. Too bad that it's going to be the customer to suffer from this debacle. M/SP BMC was consistently #1 in the nation for scan to delivery percentages and we get turned into a Tier 1 NDC. We have 2 primary sorters with 12 keying stations with 1 locked down and the other on hold while we use it to bail out Des Miones. LOL LOL LOL
Our SSIU works because we have maintenance people that keep it that way.
   Our Stand By room just got created and starting on 10-5-2009 all primary clerks and a bunch of outbound dock mail handlers will be sitting in it. The time clock is located right there with it and nobody is allowed out on the work room floor.
   May the postal gods be with us.....We'll be needing them soon.....

The ATL NDC standby room is for 2 hours in the morning, we can;t read newspapers but we can read a book.....I say..what the different
Managers and employees should be in the stand by room together...

COOLGUY. If there is not enough work on the floor for the craft, is the same amount of work (?) available for the supervisors? Seems to me the standby room is a misguided attempt by the powers that be to create a situation that does not exist. What dumbos we have running this sinking company.

Mpls/StPaul NDC,

I am not sure where you are getting your info from. The DSM NDC clerks are not even getting any OT so we are not cleaning up the mess we have not had a mess yet. The only area that has been in trouble is the HSTS. I think you are just mad that DSM got pickes as a tier 3 BMC and not yours. The Mail Handlers are getting overtime every day but not so for the clerks.

Why would he stay? He must have no life. This place is all he has left to hold onto. We just can't figure out why he just agrees to everything management wants. How about filing a greivance on some of their actions instead of getting into bed with them? How about a CIL case? We are packed with casuals on nights and are over the 12 percent allowed. The union now won't even track it.

DSM NDC Don't gloat too much you never know what"s at the end of the rainbow dealing with this organization.

Sammy, there were 11 WCs at Cin BMC/NDC. Each WC having separate and distinct "job duties". We do not have "general MH's at our facility. The North Outbound 1 WC was abolished. Inbound Docks was expanded to encompass those DWs also. Read the contract in the back per RI-399. Inbound > Primary Duty - Unload trailers. Outbound > Primary Duty - Load trailers. It's not the equipment used that is referred to as "duties". It is the "actual duties" performed. Level 5 MH's use motorized equipment, Level 4 MH's use their hands. Different example, same principle > Level 4 MH jobs on Inbound Docks are abolished. APPS Machine WC needs Level 4 MH's. Mgmt can not assign the Level 4 MH jobs on Inbound into the APPS WC. Why ? The actual duties performed constitutes more than a 50% change in duties. Therefore, the Inbound jobs would be abolished and new bid jobs would be posted for the APPS WC. That's the way it is done when the contract is the guiding force and followed. Someone being inconvenienced is not grounds for Mgmt or the Union to violate Article 12. All MH's, including those whose jobs were abolished, have the right to bid on those jobs per their seniority.

What's up with James Bell and Clyde Patterson, Local 304 Pres & Vice Pres.. You would think that with the transition fron BMC to NDC that they would be actively involved. Yet, when I called the Local about the MOU's affecting South Outbound Dock/Secondary Floor and Inbound/N Outbound 1 I was given the impression that this was news to them. We got a Branch President violating the Contract who apparently answers to noone. I was asked to fax a copy of the MOU's to the Local 304 Office so that Bell could see them. Will they even act on this or investigate Scott's actions. Doubt it!

Wow reality check this is really sad because that is what happen in Detroit,I asked myself how much more can we take of potter playing with our life.Your union sounds like our they had to be the stupid people i have ever known.They don't give meeting to let us known what hell going on and if they don't known there self why want they call for help and where is haggey the national at do he care about the people or he in it for the money tooooooooo,Congress need to come and shit maybe the president be this is some bullshit.

Edited by author 10-04-2009 10:27 PM
Whats the purpose of having a local president and vice president when they dont even come to our facility. Letting branch president sell us under the bus to management. I believe that Bell and Patterson are a disgrace to the Mailhandler Union and shouldn't even be called a mailhandler. What does our union fees go to(I know to feed pattersons fat a++ and Bell new shoes. We need a real president in our local that will not allow the branch president throw us under the bus. This stuff needs to stop and take all of them out of the local and put someone in there that will defend our rights and be a real Union. Then take Gary Sterns out of there thats just another what the Union is ripping us off making money he does not deserve.

During last Union elections, most didn't even cast a vote. First mistake. Of those who did vote, majority voted for Al Scott. Second mistake. Now when all is going wrong (as you see it), you want to tear down the Union. Third mistake. RealityCheck your constitution. Only one person in the Local Union has ANY authority to manage Branch Presidents. Our current VP has been out here more times in one year than prior VP in nine. Our curent VP was out here to investigate when Tuck's job was reposted. He reported back to Local Pres. that Al was screwing up. Local Pres. did nothing. I WISH Patterson was Local Pres. This crap would have been stopped cold.

I dont understand how or why management feels what they do wont effect them the det ndc is aboishing bids by days off then sending those people to the holding cell(stand by room) and then have junior emp doing thier job. My understanding is that everyone junior to the senior person that lose thier bid in that section would lose thier bid also. We just went thru an realignment in March the unions standard reply is that we are working on it. the last holiday I volunteered to work the holiday and was not taken but they drafted about 20 people it dont make any sense nor does it sending our mail from det to pitt bound for chi that just stupid. are the trying to shut us down? now they are taking the soon to be retired bids and make them sit in the holding cell how are they going to repost them if the bids are aboished? If Management get thier way with the contract and the no layoff clause is removed is the grandfather clause going to apply? My faith in the union is gone and management dont have a clue.

Edited by author 10-05-2009 11:55 AM
FACTS CHECK:
Been There – “During last Union elections, most didn't even cast a vote.”
- FALSE - 64% of Union members returned their ballots
“…majority voted for Al Scott.”
– TRUE - 101 voted for Albert
“you want to tear down the Union.”
– FALSE - most of us just want our Union to represent us and IT’S NOT!
“Our current VP has been out here more times in one year than prior VP in nine.”
– FALSE - During those nine years there were three elections. The prior VP showed up during each election with the Honorable James Bell to shake your hand.
“I WISH Patterson was Local Pres. This crap would have been stopped cold.”
– MAYBE – Careful what you wish for. 101 MH wished for Albert. If Clyde is such a hot shot why isn’t he at the “NDC reorganization meetings” holding Al’s hand and making sure we get the best deal possible? This is affecting ALL of us, right? There is only one NDC in our Local. It ain’t like they have a lot of NDCs getting reorganized in our Local.

It Me – “This stuff needs to stop and take all of them out of the local and put someone in there that will defend our rights and be a real Union.”
-TRUE – The current unUnion officials KNOW we do not support them at the BMC/NDC. They can count on us to NOT vote for them in the next election also.

RealityCheck – “What's up with James Bell and Clyde Patterson, Local 304 Pres & Vice Pres.. You would think that with the transition fron BMC to NDC that they would be actively involved.”
-TRUE – It ain’t election time.
“Yet, when I called the Local about the MOU's affecting South Outbound Dock/Secondary Floor and Inbound/N Outbound 1 I was given the impression that this was news to them.”
-FALSE – you are the third party to FAX our worthless leaders these same MOUs in as many days. They play stupid. Why? Let’s go with the obvious answer.

My most sincere apologies to everyone else in this forum for Cincy NDC airing our laundry in your face.

to the Cincy Mail Handlers, Does WC in the above posting stand for work center? Most plants call them sections.

Yes WC stands for work center, hey al scott since you are giving away jobs like u did with inbound u think u could hook a brother up with a sweet job? I would like one with weekends off and a level 5 driving job. I know you have experience in this kind of stuff since you took Carl Tucks job from him and had it reposted then u bid on it and thus made him an unassigned regular and he had to bid to get another job. Folks none of our bid jobs are safe with this mad man in office if he likes your job he will take it and repost it then bid on it. If someone above Al Scott is reading this please help, we need an investagation in what he is doing. He is cutting deals with Management and vialating the contract. Things at the Cin NDC are falling apart fast we need someone above Al To stop this madness.

For who you ever are about praising Patterson you dont know what you are talking about. The only time he has came to the BMC now NDC is only for arbitration hearings and now we will probally see him when the next election coming up next year. I have dealing with Patterson and he had screwed me out of alot of money. His excuse was he forgot about me and let it slip through the cracks. And for him being the Local President that would like having an Al Scott running things because he really dont care about nobody but him self. So if your a patterson lover you need to check yourself.

were all toast!!

sond like that detroit bmc/ndc

sound like the detroit bmc/ndc

Somebody tell me where is national president at

hey pittsburg and new jersey ndc,, i need an update. how u doing. we at detroit ndc is not doing well, talk to me. how much overtime u getting,r the trucks outside getting tough,etc

Here's how one of our steward's earns his keep. Everyday he gets on here and prints it out for Al Scott. Al's more concerned about what someone may say on here than he is representing us. I wish he would take a course in " Understanding the National Agreement ". There is no provision for violating the contract to help management ease into the transition to NDC.

He makes an MOU for Inbound Dock expansion effective 10-3-09. Problem is the expanded area is still functioning as an Outbound Dock until at least later this month. I guess the news reports on the increased cases of dementia and Alzheimers is true. Retire before you can't remember how to get to work! You already have lost the ability to comprehend the Contract.

Sounds as if some in Cincy have picked up the National Agreement and have read it. However, there is some language in Article 12 that requires you to cross-reference into your LMOU which defines sections (or in your case work centers). If your LMOU does not define sections, then the whole tour becomes the section, for excessing purposes. I'm not defending anyone or their actions. I'm just stating that you also need to explore the whole story as well as how excessing and duty assignments have been handled in the past. As far as the National President, he can not be expected to drop everything and run to Cincy today to deal with your problems. There are problems all over the country and that is why we have local leaders. If you feel that your reps have failed to uphold the National and Local agreements then I suggest you read Article 10 of the Uniform Local Union Constitution. There you will find the procedures that have been put into place at the National Conventions. If your claims have merits, then raise up and defend them. It will take a little work on your part but you will have to be heard.

Knowledge is Power - They may have an out, Mgmt and Branch President. Two contracts ago our BP at the time, agreed with management to list the work sections in the LMOU but removed the "specific duties" from each WC and left it blank. Prior to that, the "specific duties" of each WC in the LMOU were listed. The latest Branch President was elected after the LMOU was written for this contract. Mgmt has refused to put the "specific duties" language in the LMOU.

At the Cin NDC we want our Local 304 President, James Bell, to be actively involved in protecting our rights during this transition from BMC to NDC. There is no need for the National President to be involved hands on.

In the 33 years the Cin BMC has been operating we have never had a Branch President reelected to a concurrent term. 3 years and out and start all over again.

I guess Reality Check forgot about John Whiting and Gary Troxel holding concurrent terms as the Cinti. BMC AVP, not that, that has anything to do with anything...

It seems that most of the tier 1 ndc have issues. Excessing, abolishments etc. Something we have to keepin mind is that in most cases the local union's hands are tied. This ndc program was instituted on a national basis
with our national union's blessing. the national unions position during this changeover was that the USPS had 2 options. Contract out our work, or develop the ndc program. I suppose that under their breath and in private they say we we should be thankful to have a job. Not that i disagree with that premiss but i do believe the national union should be doing more to address the so-called local basis with much more than telephone conferences. I cannot understand how something that the USPS made a national program became a local issue for the union's to handle. I also wonder how many closed door meetings have occurred at the national level about the ndc program and why everything is kept a secret. Oh well, I guess I should be happy to have a job and am able to sit in a stand-by room for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, while the mail sits on the floor.

A little reminder to all you folks sitting in 'Da Room':

Comfort yourselves in the knowledge Potter promised before Congress and all of America the customer and service will not suffer.

And a big, big THANX to Secretariat-
We are fortunate there is someone else helping us keep the facts straight.
Those pesky things seem to slip away when convenient.

One last thot here...
Cincy BMC/NDC has PostalVision indoctrination broadcasts 24 hours a day in break areas. Potter is quoted on the tube saying most Americans prefer a five day delivery if it will keep costs down.
I wonder if he asked anyone besides Gene Del Polito for their opinion?
Please raise your hand if Potter asked you or anyone you know.

Hey postal worker let do this on oct 19,2009 every postal worker you know tell them all around the usa we do have a voices so let go down to congress,and let them know enough is enough of being treated like dog with no voice if we all do this congress would have to step in and put a stop to this madness.That oct 19,2009 at 0900 am drop your kids off and let show are power see you there and the new will be there.Love you all and keep your head up this fight is not over let stand together this one day.

Knowledge can be obtained only by looking into the mind and virtue of the soul, which is the diviner part of a man, as we see our own image in another’s eye."

Attention Postal Employees
Monday Oct19,2009 is meet your congressmanday.We will meet at the office of our congressman down at the federal building .Be armed with your questions and concerns,Regarding the recent charges,i.e. re-classification of the bmc,s,downsizing of workforce etc. This is our opportunity to let congress know that we're fed up with the mishandling of our careers and the disservice to our customers.LET'S STAND AND WIN THIS FIGHT TOGETHER.

I am sorry the is to meet is 0900am see you there oct 19, 2009

The Travelling Circus, I mean the NDC Mgmt Transition Team, will be at the Cin NDC on Monday. What exactly will these folks be doing? What are we in for? We have already been given papers to sign to accept/decline our starting time changes for mid-November. Basically, if you don't sign and accept you will become an unassigned regular. Then mgmt can assign you to the work center or tour THEY want, and you'll lose your bid assignment.

There's no benefit to declining the starting time change. Well, Mgmt will benefit if you decline.

Well they come in and take all your mail and send it to pitts or memphis or dsm and put all ofyou in a room the key thing is tell everyone to look business because i think they play a big part of who go in the stand by room.Don't forget tell the postal worker everywhere to go to you congress off oct 19,2009 at 0900am to let your voice be heard good luck we have to make a stand now or we are going to be lost

 2240 NJI primary and mail handlers are working overtime with all the mail that we are getting from the other offices. The secondary that works NJ,NY and Conn. mail is only running one machine most day. Were told Foreign mail was leaving,but now told it will stay for at least a year. Told excess clerks and mail handlers from DVD and Carteret were coming, able to bid on our empty job slots, but also put on hold for now. FSS was supposed to be up and running by now, but again not yet.
Clerk tours are:
                12:00 am - 8:30 am t1 primary
                4:00 am - 12:30 pm t2 secondary
                8:15 am - 4:45 pm t2 primary
                12:15 pm - 8:45 pm t3 secondary
Mail handlers hour are split all over the place with full tours and split tours in small sections.

I think they are gonna lock the front door.

I told you months ago, CBMC your turn was comming> is that 1 m or 2?

1 "m", unless you meant to put a "u" in place of the "o"!

cin where are they sending your mail too.

Edited by author 10-13-2009 11:49 AM
Nowhere, yet. The small NDC Team will be starting Wednesday and then as it progresses they're saying that there will be around 30 per tour. I thought I was told we would start shipping mail that isn't in our delivery area this Saturday, 10-17-09. To DSM and Pitt. I don't see how Pitt will handle all this mail to process when everyone is online. They talk about how Pitt is a much smaller facility than ours. Pitt Mail Handlers, Clerks: What's goin on out your way? Tour changes, excessing, etc.. Can you handle all the Tier 2 responsibilities, mail, etc.. Was Postal Mgmt Manager Donahoe from your area/facility?

Picture this: Instead of the NDC Team coming into a facility with our mail processed normally Mgmt brought in all regular day, OT, and Holiday workers to CLEAR OUT all the mail, including End of Tour OT this past weekend. Today, all MH's on Pre-Tour OT List were brought in for two hours OT at 0400 hours. Let the games begin!

Just wondering....I've always heard that if you are unassigned and excessing happens at your facility your first to go. I can't find anything on that. Does anybody else know anything about that? I know on this same site but under the clerk craft area someone posted a comment saying their job was abolished and they were left unassigned and even though there were 5 junior people under them they were the one shipped out.

Maintenance at the STL NDC has just finished the new standby area. I call it this because it is right in the middle of the workroom floor. I tried it on for size. Seems to fit. Too much mail to go on standby time though. Will keep everybody informed as to what these idjits here decide to do next. It'll be a hoot ya can bet on that.

Unfortunately, the current National Postal Mail Handlers Union - National Agreement, permits the United States Postal Service to excess from a facility, career Full Time Mail Handler employees prior to Part Time Flexible Mail Handler employees, and non-career casual mail handler employees.

It's a damn shame!

Riva Ridge, I'd advise you to reread your contract before posting lies. Casuals always go first.

Edited by author 10-15-2009 05:58 AM
clerk2go excessing should always done be juniority in craft art 12.5 unassigned just means you dont have a bid and management can put you where they need you until you can bid. The one thing that bothers me is in the contract when you abolish a bid everyone junior to the senior person who lost their bid will lose their bid also we went thru this in march I downloaded the contract and the jcim from the union site

http://www.apwu.org/dept/ind-rel/sc/APWU%2...act%202006-2010.pdf

http://www.apwu.org/dept/ind-rel/sc/062907jcim.pdf

from:

the "Agreement between the National Postal Mail Handlers Union and the United States Postal Service - November 21, 2006 - November 20, 2011"



Article 12.6

C5 - Reduction in the Number of Employees in an Installation Other Than by Attrition

C5a - Reassignments within installation. When for any reason an installation must reduce the number of employees more rapidly than is possible by normal attrition, that installation:

C5a1 - Shall determine by craft and occupational group the number of excess employees;

C5a2 - Shall, to the EXTENT POSSIBLE, minimize the impact on regular work force employees by separation of all casuals;

C5a3 - Shall, to the EXTENT POSSIBLE, minimize the impact on full-time positions by reducing part-time flexible hours;

C5a4 - Shall identify as excess the necessary number of junior full-time employees in the salary level and occupational group affected on an installation-wide basis within the installation; make reassignments of excess full-time employees who meet the minimum qualifications for vacant crafts in the same installation; involuntarily reassign them in the same or lower level.

C5b - Reassignments to Other Installations After Making Reassignments Within the Installation:

C5b1 - Involuntarily reassign such excess full-time employees starting with the junior with their seniority for duty assignments to vacancies in the same craft or occupational group in installation within 35 miles of the losing installation.

C5b2 - Involuntarily reassign full-time employees for whom vacancies were not identified in C5b1 above in other crafts or occupational groups in which they meet minimum qualifications at the same or lower level within 35 miles of the losing installation.

C5b3 - If sufficient vacancies cannot be identified within the 35 mile area, involuntarily reassigned excess employees to vacancies in the same craft or occupational group within 100 miles of the losing installation.

C5b4 - If vacancies cannot be identified within the employee's own craft and occupational group, then vacancies will be identified in other crafts within the 100 mile area. Involuntarily reassigned excess employees for whom vacancies were not identified in C5b3 above in other crafts or occupational groups in which they meet minimum qualifications at the same or lower level.

C5b5 - If vacancies cannot be identified within the 100 mile area, and after consultation with the affected union it is determined that it is necessary, the Postal Service will designate more distant installations for the reassignment of excess full-time employees.

(Note* - "Extent Possible" will be determined by the USPS and the decision can be challenged by the NPMH Union.) - Riva

Riva can you come to the detroit bmc/ndc and tell them they need your help

Edited by author 10-15-2009 07:51 PM
Thanks screwed clerk for responding but I wish more clerks from other areas would respond too cause I'm not sure that is exactly true. I've been through excessing before but at a station and I believe I heard that they did but I'm not sure. I can say that when they abolished jobs they did not abolish everybody junior. At the station I had my job abolished twice and that did not happen. They could do things with-in a section or catagory which seems to be how they did it at the detndc. They are supposed to do things in a way that's the least disruptive and basically if one month they say we need less Sat/Sun jobs and abolish every junior person below that job you could be changing 50 peoples lives. And then next month they say we don't need so many Fri/Sat and abolish everyone again, basically the junior people could be bidding over and over. So how they did it by junior people by ns days I believe is ok. But you know how the post office goes every place seems to follow different rules.

You excess by section. Sections are defined in your local memo of understanding. If sections are not defined then the whole building is the section.
Therefore, you could excess from a section where there are a lot of senior people and not excess from a section where junior employees are working.
All jobs junior to the senior employee in the section losing their bid is reposted for in-section bidding.
Clear? Not at all. You need to rely on your local and national officers to dig into the contract, make some calls and get things right.
Remember - it has to be contractual. It does NOT have to be fair.

This is a post I copied off of this site but under the clerk craft. I do not know where this is. Just wanted to pass it along.

oh and I thought excessing what by seniority - our center is excessing folks who do not have bid jobs first and then going on to low seniority - which means they are evidently excessing more folks then they first advised since the original folks with low seniority have just been postponed they say for a month or so.......sad - seems we never have enough people in DBCS but they say we have too many people - confusing!

Riva, you've read the contract correctly but your interpretation is wrong.
From the Contract Interpretation Manuel: Incorporating a meeting reached by the parties in a recent National Arbitration, Arbitrator Snow held that the language in Section 12.6C5a2 means that "all casuals must be removed if it will minimize the impact on regular workforce employees. The employer must eliminate all casuals to the extent that it will minimize the impact on the regular workforce." Source: National Arbitration Award HOC-NA-C 12, Arbitrator C. Snow, dated July 27, 2001.

You can't just assume how management will interpret the National Agreement when the interpretation is spelled out in the Contract Interpretation Manuel. They are bound to that interpretation.

Anybody here from newjersey the word is that you all are picking or ralley because you have people in a room and casual taking there place is this true or false and if so where is it at o you tube ifound everyone else but yours

Clerk2go, It's possible that a facility can do excessing incorrectly or that someone can post incorrect information on this site, but Leprechaun is 100% correct about excessing by section.

P.S. I do kow how to spell manual, must have had a brain fart (twice in one post too.)

We have always had an interesting situation here when it comes to abolished jobs and reposting.The AMC,which is now closed,always did intersection run downs on jobs.GMF and Annex would abolish jobs and repost if the jobs involved a change of tour start time or two or more hours BT change.Only the AMC had this caveat.I can only guess it was a local memorandum of some sorts.They have abolished about 60 % of clerk and mail handler jobs here in the last two years.About half of the jobs are reverted,and half our reposted with additional duties.

I do appreciate other clerks outside the detndc responding. Thank you.

The Local MOU is how the excessng will be done. By Section, if not spelled out, then the entire facility is considered as one section and no Arbitrator will go against the LMOU in matters of excessing.

Hopefully, back in 2000, there was a national effort on the part of clerks and mail handlers to bring there respective LMOUs up to speed when it came to excessing.

With mail handlers it wasn't much of a problem, but the clerks in some facilities, never made the necessary changes in their LMOUs. What will be the biggest problem for the clerks in some facilities, who in order to get their 200 man years or higher brought in the AOs that they serviced, and started representing them as part of the facility. This normally allowed biding from the facility to the AO and the reverse.

If those LMOUs were not updated to cover these situations, someone is really going to get screwed because of it.

If your LMOUs are out dated, its to late to change them, since you can only open your LMOU for change when the next contract is due, in either 2010 or 2011 respectively.

Everyone needs to know what is in their LMOU, it may save you ass in the long run or help screw you but good. Ask you local Union rep for a copy.

Also remember, you local president, craft director, chief steward, and the like, regardless of seniority are the last to be excessed for the facility. They can be the most junior and the very last to go because of their Union status.

Union member.... no matter how bad they're representation sucks huh!

show me, if your representations sucks you have only the membership to blame. They are elected officials, aren't they? Too often members vote for their friends. You need to vote for individuals that are know the contract and are willing to take a stand against management - and tell the members the truth. Problem is - the contract is not always fair. It doesn't have to be fair, it has to be contractual.

The LMOU talks about excessing out of a work center or section, not out of the building?

Our Primary Section has been given 3 days a week of mail BACK TO IT. Duh Moines cannot handle the volume. With half of Cincy and half of Chicago's BMC Primary mail allegedy set to go there, too I can only imagine the mess.
We've been informed that this will not change until after January 2010.
   As far as excessing goes.....CONFUSION REIGNS....One part of the contract goes by occupational group and then you go to the maintenance section and it says theirs goes by installation seniority. Well, what if you came from another craft inside the installation? Craft or installation ? Managers are saying installation while union is trying to figure it out. Seems as though Article 12 rules over everything. BUT WHY DOES ARTICLE 38 state "installation seniority comes ahead of all else ?" This is gonna be fun. We're already under staffed in maintenance and they want to be rid of more of us next spring. Once this Christmas is over....WATCH OUT, because that's when all hell is gonna break loose across the NDC world. LOL LOL LOL......wait until mail volume comes back....IF IT EVER DOES they'll be way more screwed than they are now. Have A Nice Day

To all of you Union bashers out there......I'll take ALL of your COLA money and contractual increases. You can happily work for $9.00 because that's what the P.O. wishes they could pay you. Best look at the BIG picture before you slam any Unions. Remember child labor ?? It's still prevalent in third world countries. It was prevalent here, too.So were Work camps. No workers comp...No OSHA...
Segregation between nationalities and race...Horrendous conditions.....
Ya, I'll take that over OUR union any day.

just wondering--If our plant is going to excess approximately 25% of our mailhandlers and they now need less stewards than they currently have, will they then excess the junior steward, or will they get to stay at the plant even though there is no longer a need for them as a steward.

Again, thank you for the clerks starting to get more vocal on here. It's good to get info from other facilities cause everybody always thinks they know for sure what is gonna happen and as we see it's not always so black and white. On another note, as far as the unions....yes, they do get us colas and contractual increases which is wonderful but everytime someone says something regarding the union that is always the only response thrown out there. I'm not trying to say you should move mountians for us or anything but to be honest I'd be happy if you'd just speak to us. Say anything! I feel like rumors go around and nobody comes to us to address it. I've worked in other offices where the stewards would be vocal at every stand up talk....asking questions they felt were relevant to the craft they represented. Our's are always silent. We are never updated on anything. If you ask a question they never know the answer which ok you probably should be keeping up with things but I understand you don't know everything but most of the time you never get back with an answer. As far as voting people in......I personally don't have a clue who the canidates are half the time. Before you say go to the meetings, some people have to work Sundays and/or have children and that is not possible. For the people that aren't their friends or work the same shift as the people running or whatever never meet these people until they come one night and parade around in their colorful track suits to pass out a flyer and some candy. But I do agree some people just vote for their friend and that's ashame.

Your local Union is as good as the members want it to be. The Cincinnati BMC, er, NDC, is one of the best in the country.
Anyway, we were told yesterday that starting Monday we will be sending some of the mail straight to DSM. (No word when we start sending mail to PIT.)
Wonder how long that will last if DSM is already having trouble keeping up with the volume.
Mail volume has already picked up in Cincy. I am a dock clerk and can attest to this being true. Trailers are once again going out 100% full. They are "scheduling" trips to DSM and PIT every two hours. This should be fun.
Stay tuned for further details. (I am off Sunday/Monday so I will report what I learn on Tuesday.)

Going thru a lot of changes in Cincy. Problem is things are chaning so fast it is hard for the Union to be right. It is hard to tell the members what is going on when management doesn't know what is going on.
For example, a true story. We are going to three shifts because we are picking up priority mail. At about 7:00 AM management told the Clerk Craft Director there would be 3 dock clerks positions on tour 1. At about 9:00 there were eight dock clerk positions. Finally, at about 1:00 PM management settled on 6 dock clerk positions.
What should the union tell the members? If they go right out and tell them what management says, it makes it look like the union is making things up. If the union doesn't say anything, we aren't keeping the members informed. No win situation for the union.
I ralize it is hard to attend meetings and be informed on all the candidates, but talk it up on the floor and listen to what people are saying.
Good luck to us all.

Without doubt a new mentality has developed over 2009.It involves attacking anyone,EAS or otherwise that the district managers want gone.My manager asked several of us about the VERA.I told her I was going to take and they never responded.I am not going to take it,but just enjoy playing head games with her as she is also going through a divorce and has a son in rehab.I have been compiling lists of facilities where managers at various levels have been walked out of the buildings and placed on suspension pending termination.It seems Houston,Cleveland,Nashville,Bowling Green,and Dallas are getting hammered and the EAS are being deleted just like the people who keep the USPS running (craft employees).

You are 100% right Leprechaun. Every time the union gets a little bit of information from management the people want to be informed right away. I don't blame them for wanting information because management releases so little that every tidbit is precious. Besides the people are sick and tired of all the rumors they hear on the the floor and they crave real information. They want to know what management's plans for the present are, they want to know what management's plans for the future are, and they want to know if the BS they heared from the big mouth in another section is true. After all the dude read it on some postal blog so it must be true!
    The fact of the matter however is that if the union released every bit of information they received they would lose all credibility because 75% of what they hear turns out not to be be true. Like Leprechaun said even things that management tells the union can change 2 hours later. For this reason the union is unlikely to release any information until it is put in writing by a reliable source and even then it is subject to change.
    Those of you who want to blame the union for every little thing that happens, either shut up, or get involved because being a steward is not easy. It is a thankless job to do the same work as you but yet listen to all the complaints and whining an a day to day basis. If you don't like the job that is being done then do something about it. Take the chance to become a steward or elect someone different. Those who are in office are doing the best they can in 90% of all situations.

Edited by author 10-19-2009 03:30 PM
Well, all I can say is we had one steward that would be on there myspace account and wasn't smart enough to turn their online signal off while at work. Our other steward plays on facebook half the night and doesn't seem to realize that the scores of the game they are playing are being posted for some of their coworkers to see. I'm thinking they probably should be doing something a little more productive when on union time or at least fake it a little better. We know that jobs have been abolished and people are in the standby room. Been going on a few weeks in our office now. About a week in I overheard a steward telling someone they were still trying to figure out how management went about doing it. Funny cause I know how they chose to abolish jobs and I know the reason for the way they did it so why don't the steward. And hey, it had been a week why not ask management if you don't know?? At another time when we were going through a time change our steward never seemed to know anything else reguarding the time change. He either said ask the other steward cause he wasn't the steward that day or the excuss was the day shift stewards don't tell him anything. The stewards don't even work together and that's been said by another craft steward also so how are we supposed to have faith in them when they act like this with each other.

Generally good points by all of the clerks supporting their union.
Glad you decided to chime in after all of this time.

Mail Handlers are more blunt than our clerk kindred, nature of the beast.
We feel our unUnion is very important and has been hi-jacked by weasels.

Any negative stuff I have to say about my wonderful Mail Handler unUnion is directed towards our Local 304 Prez and his lackeys. Trust me, these lazy scumbags can thank their collective behinds they are not dependent on a majority vote from the Cincy NDC to stay in office.

Although our Branch Prez (Al Scott) enjoyed a clear majority of votes in the last election, he is not popular with the rank and file.
Al has a hard crowd to please.

At Union meetings Al informed us beforehand ideas mismanagers were kicking around that affected us (i.e. unit consolidations and shift changes - which subsequently are occuring) and made no bones that none of it was etched in stone.
Al invited comment.
By and large, my pals chose private, loud conversations over participation in the discussions and left complaining that Al didn't tell them anything concrete.
Yes, Al used his beer bottle as a gavel to calm an unruly, deep in their cups membership.
Mayhap we need a sergeant at arms to enforce order? ;^)

In all fairness, none of the candidates opposing Al on the ballot could have done any better... some worse.

Bottom line, at this time and in all probability, the near future, no Mail Handlers are getting excessed from Cincy NDC... I caution this comment with a deep understanding of the flaky leadership predominant in the USPS we all suffer under.

As a side bar: the USPS, in it's glorious wisdom, determined Cincy NDC is short of clerks and about half of the TTOs have to go.
Another dumb move, but this is not a final-final decision either.
The USPS retains it's right under Article 2 to change policy and decisions on a whim.

As PaleWriter said prior to the 15K incentive mgmt stated they projected the need for 1 more FTR Clerk. Mgmt said they were overstaffed by about 23 in the Mail Handler craft. They're projecting about 17 clerks retiring and we've got a list of about 23 Mail Handlers retiring and 2 removals. We're also going to three tours in November. So hopefully Mail Handlers will be safe from excessing! Once we start processing as an NDC, we're still sending trailers out to SFO, DEN, JAX, PHL, MPLS, etc... and haven't started shipping all that mail to just Des Moines and Pitt as a Tier 1 NDC. The NDC Team is supposed to be here but we have not yet seen them on Tour 2. We'll see what happens in the next month....hopefully it'll be positive.

I agree with PaleWriter that we would not be better off with the other candidates that lost in the last Mail Handler Branch President elestion. But, as a strong supporter of Al Scott in that election, I am dismayed in his performance and representation of our craft. It wasn't about promises, or seniority preference that led me to vote for Scott. He promised to FOLLOW the Contract in his representation of us. He has failed miserably in that area, the most important area! Because we are transitioning to an NDC does not give management or the Union the right to abuse and violate the contract. Article 12 was put in place for a reason, and this transition and the changes towards that ALL fall under Article 12. But Scott has abused his authority again, especially in his giving Outbound Dock Mail Handlers a free Inbound Dock MEO-5 bid position. That's right, these are bid positions and should have been posted for ALL qualifying MH's to bid on. This is worse than when we improperly upgraded L4 MH's to L5 MEO positions. Since we didn't know how to properly file these grievances and post those MEO-5 positions for bid, while retaining the L4 positions we caved in and settled to upgrade the person who had been driving. Most of those folks would not have had the seniority to successfully bid those posted positions.

This Union can not continue to exist if we don't enforce the contract. We must take action towards that goal now! We must demand that the Union and Management guide their actions and decisions with the Contract as the defining document. That's not going to sit well with the MH's that could give a shit about the Contract because they don't get what they want.

Leprechaun...... seeing how you have all the answers, I CAN TELL YOU ARE NOT A DETROIT NDC UNION STEWARD !

show me, seems I hit a nerve. Sorry. I don't have all the answers but I do listen, read and make an informed decision. Just remember, you can't beleive everything you hear; you can't beleive everything you read; but you can certainly learn more when your mouth is shut!

The Mailhandler Union flat out sucks!!!!

Leprechaun - I think that was a slam on the Detroit stewards...

Yeah, I thought it was a slam on the Detroit stewards, but I still hit a nerve.
And it seems a lot of employees are frustrated (and rightly so), but blaming the Union is not the answer. That just plays into managements hand. We need to stand behind the elected and appointed officials of the Union. Make them aware of our concerns in a positive and encouraging manner. This is a trying time for all, and we ALL need to make the best of a very bad situation by standing by each other and working with each other.

leprechaun.....like I said ,you got all the answers !!

Leprechaun.....besides what are talking about .I did not say anything about hearing anything i made a statement about their representation ,which includes questions and answers ,if I have a question for a steward and the response is i don't know ,that's fair .I just expect a researched response asap.Is that too much to ask...... no i don't think so . you didn't hit a nerve at all .You have your opinion about the union and so do I However, do respect certain ones .It was a slam on the stewards at the Detroit ndc yesyes yes it was ,but it is what it is .Tell me something are you a steward at the Detroit ndc.I hope we bump into to each other I will be more than happy to agree to disagree without prejudice.

No, I am not a steward, or anything else, at the Detroit NDC.

Edited by author 10-21-2009 06:35 AM
Leprechaun....not sure how you feel you hit a nerve but I think your the one getting sensitive here for no reason. Also, you feel very strong about your opinion on the union which is great...but great for you. Maybe yours works a little harder then ours. Until you work in Detroit and witness what we are working with please don't judge us on our feelings and we won't judge you for supporting yours. Our stewards have been overheard laughing about the fact that they aren't going anywhere BECAUSE they are stewards. Yeah, ha ha that is real funny and your members enjoy you mocking that they are not so lucky. That's not being very supportive to us in this trying time. And we do make them aware of our concerns and we get no response whatsoever in return. And like I said in an earlier post, our stewards have already admitted that they fight and withhold info from each other so how are their members supposed to respect that?

But on to what this site in intended for......yesterday, the mailhandlers at the Detroit NDC were told 6 people will be going to Saginaw. If they get no volunteers the bottom 6 will go. The meeting was just for mailhandlers but it was said that 14 clerks are being sent to the carrier craft. No other info on clerks was given. I suppose are meeting will follow soon. Funny, they have been preaching all along there is nowhere to send people which I believe they don't have a place for all projected to leave but funny how we get possible excessing letters and I know mine and at least one other was dated Aug.20th and 60 days exactly we are told da da da dahhhhh......we have a few places. Let the fun begin.

Yeah i agree about the union suck they only look after there best interest forget what happen to us mailhandler and clerk.The sad part about this is the union agree with all that management doing,they quote mangement is following the contract.Oh i seen with my owe eye where the union said management is following the contract.NUMBER 1 fact mailhandler had not been inform by the union at all,two what happen to meeting among the people and there union why the name blame.I SEE CHARGES AGAINST THE UNION WITH THERE LIEING ASS AND IF YOU RESPOND BACK YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE YOU LIER

I am not offended and Detroit must really be in turmoil. I sympathize with you all. We are ONE union. It is a shame if the stewards are behaving as you say. I have no reason to doubt you.
Here is a heads up for those being excessed to the carrier craft. You may want to look on the national APWU cite for more info on this. I know there was talk, and possibly a Level 4 grievance, about excessing clerks to the carrier craft.
Seems the carriers CAN layoff for lack of mail. The National APWU is taking the position that since the clerks would have retreat rights back to the clerk craft they would be covered under the NO LAYOFF clause in the APWU contract. That is if you have 6 years continuous service you are protected from being layed off.
Good Luck Detroit and I truly hope things work out for you. And some of the stewards may be in for a rude awaking concerning the "super seniority" they think they have.

Detroit elected a new BP and they didn't bother to find out if he knew the contract before they voted.

Edited by author 10-21-2009 04:47 PM
The SUPER-SENIORITY of stewards issue has cropped up several times of late.
Anyone knowledgeable on this subject wish to enlighten us?
We all know the number of stewards are dictated by number of craft employees?
Stewards are exempted from the excessing process due to super-seniority?
As the number of craft employees in a facility are reduced, does the number of required stewards also decrease?
Do stewards lose super-seniority as craft employees drop in number and get excessed?
Or do they stay on in a protected status until the very end?
If stewards lose super-seniority, who decides which stewards lose super-seniority and in what order?
Could someone step up to the plate and give us an answer with citation?

Stewards can be excessed under article 12. They have super seniority under a RIF only.

The stewards here in Det are a classy bunch.

Leprechaun - Very well may be an APWU steward of many years at the Cin BMC/NDC!
 Though I'm a Mail Handler it has been my feelings throughout the years that the APWU at the Cin BMC/NDC has their shit together! Not so with the NPMHU! We lost a no-brainer Casual in Lieu Of arbitration that could have easily gotten each of us $ 30,000. Why? We couldn't provide the arbitrator with the proper documentation to win the case. Yeah, we gave the arbitrator beaucoup casual hours but didn't feel it was necessary to break down those hours into the actual numbers>> total hours minus those that were allowed by management per the contract. At our facility clerks have won many thousands of dollars. One arbitration, approx. 3 years ago got them close to $20,000 apiece.

Right now the clerks waiting to get the breakdown on how much money they're getting from a recent arb. win!!!! Also they put out an excellent newsletter keeping their peers informed .

clerk2go.....I thought Saginaw was under review for processing going to Lansing....hmmm....why would Det MH get sent to Saginaw? Then to Lansing??

I really feel for you mailhandlers in Det. Shoddy leadership it sounds for sure. I heard your local prez is practicing on the job retirement. There must be something to it. All these boards say in Det this and Det that.

My best wishes to all of. Take care of your families and yourselves.

MH Tony...that I don't know. This is the first Saginaw has ever been mentioned as far as I know. They originally were only talking about Des moines, Pittsburgh, and Memphis. It would be a good idea for the DetNDC stewards to maybe call the Saginaw stewards and find out what's up. And RealityCheck...WOW....a newsletter keeping clerks informed would be wonderful. I'm a little envious right now....lol

not sure what what MH Tony is referencing, I along with many other mailhandlers called the local pres last night and spoke to him about the changes going on at the NDC. He was well aware of what is going on and explained the actions that the union is taking. He also told me what is going on around the state. Specifically, a study to move saginaw into lansing, a study to move kalamazo into grand rapids, and a study to move jackson into lansing. As well the movement of cancellation from the GWy to pontiac. He stated that the main problem for us at the NDC is the constant changing from management. One day no-one is being excessed, the next day were going to saginaw. He explained that the saginaw vacancies were never listed in the impact statement, that pontiac had attempted to hide about 20 or so residual vacancies but the union was able to get them out. He said that the contract is clear on the radius for excessing and that the 35 mile radius would include pontiac. He then said that if there were no vacancies within the 35 mile radius then the area could be expanded after consulataion with the union. No consultation has taken place locally so he assuming it took place at the regional level. Anyone who thinks he isn't doing anything should really pay attention to whats going on and not let the rumors control us.

Most of us at the Det NDC would just like some kind of correspondence from the union. ie: newsletter, meeting or something. If they don't know anything then they could at least tell us!! We all understand that things are changing so fast that sometimes it's hard to follow but the MAILHANDLER union could do a whole lot better on keeping us informed!!!!!!

Yes i agree that don't keep you inform about nothing but they would quit to lie to you.I had to share i few tears when i look at my co-worker who look like they about to loose their mind.Help me understand you have part time flex you said well they only get four hour i can't send them .Number you have unasign regular and this person have a bid but you said i had to start at the bottom of the list,But get this you took people bids and put them in the room you work the hell out these people that on the floor and the first to go is the man that got abid.Could someone explain article 12 don't give half give me all.

Maybe it's just me but I would think it would be easier, less time consuming and less chance for information being misunderstood for the union to come and tell 100 mailhandlers some info vs 100 mailhandlers calling to get it. Also, the part that bugs me about what you said spider man is that he said he's ASSUMING a consultation has taken place regionally. They've been discussing areas farther then 35 miles for 2 months now. I'm thinking he should know whether that consultation took place for a fact or not by now.

The unions will never tell you anything. They are in the business of hating management, not helping members. They show their hatred of mangement by filing meanless grievences. If they tell you anything, it might ruin their "gotcha" in the grievece filing.

Spiderman.....

Just the fact that you are finding out from me and just now calling your local president testifies that he is on early retirement. I know a few MH's in Michigan who haven't heard a peep from him since elected....no newsletter in three years? No visits in three years to their facility....they pay his wages, his car, his insurance, and his cell phone and the guy can't even show up or put out a newsletter. I'd be retiring too! LOL

Hope you find someone more concerned about the welfare of his members next time! Good Luck in the future.

Ok everybody here is your first lesson on Art. 12.... R u all ready? Before we start lets get a simple rule to keep in mind at all times of discussion. First things first. The National Agreement was never written with a guarantee of fairness to all involved especially Art.12.
Its whole purpose is to lay out a set of guidelines that will address the movement of mail handlers thru bidding and non-bidding procedures. Layoffs, RIF, abolishment, excessing, retreat rights, reversions, residuals,.. are all terms that are found twisted within the Art. The Det. NDC has been going through a realignment/ reconstruction/ NDC conversion/ for the last two yrs. The Art. has not changed but the people in charge or giving directions have.
If it makes you feel better to point a finger and find blame by all means do so but before you crucify your Union save a spike for managments part in the confusion. Remember there is not an Article for fairness.
Ive spoke with Don on many occasions and have also left messages on many occasions. I have gotten answers to my questions and would have rather not heard the answers to others asked.
There is no such thing as a stupid question. Go to the NPMHU website. There is a contract as well a Contract Interpretation Manual you can download. The CIM will explain it all in laymans terms. Good Luck. Try reading for an hour a day. You'lll be suprised what you'll learn. C yaround.

thanks for the infinent wisdom spooner but save the techna color dream coat for the star gazers. when your in the middle of a shit pile you better hand someone a shovel not a theory. its no mystery that the post office is in turmoil. hell who isnt? we are the last group of people to have actual movement from the building. i too am frustated and confused just like everybody else but i had to admit to myself that i didnt care when it was happening to someone else besides me and thats not right. now the noose is getting tighter and im beganing to feel a choke coming on. my suggestion would be to ask your stupidvisor to see a steward first thing in the morning. get upstairs and ask every question you can where it is in a controled environment. whats it gonna hurt? write your questions down tonight. go prepared. you deserve to have your questions answered.
+2112)"*^"**"^"**"^"*"*^"*"^*"^"*^"*"^"*"*"^*"*^"*"*"^*"*^"*"^"**"^"* "*"^

I think I will call the local today and see if someone there can hold my hand for me when i cross the street

Hey, T.Clark! nice misinterpretation of the contract. Maybe you should read the damn thing before posting misinformation.

To "just what we needed", I know what you mean about not caring until it happens to you, but I am on the other end. I constantly bugged our stewards about anything I thought was wrong and tried to tell other members what was going on that was wrong, especially with the way they used to use casuals in our plant(we don't have casuals anymore now that they are excessing). And the sad thing was that there were and are stewards that just don't want to hear it. I know which stewards would actually try to help, and which just lent a deaf ear and the ones who just answer I'm not sure, I'll get back to you but never do. I know they probably cringed when they saw me coming. The other people in the plant don't want to hear either if it doesn't affect them and at our election time our members picked one of the worst stewards to be our president. This person had them fooled, but I knew what it was going to be like with this person as branch president and it has come true. I only hear complaints now about the president, and now that there is to be excessing, everyone is panicking. My advice is to not talk to just one steward, talk to all of them that you can. You can read the contract, but it can be very vague, and you need to get a hold of your local agreement also to find out how they excess by sections. You have to keep yourselves informed, don't expect others to do it for you. Read all of these forums and find out how it is handled in other areas of the country, and see how it pertains to your situation, and not just the ones for your own craft, read them all.

I was fortunate enough to be able to go to the last Convention. One of the common subjects was the Networking plan for the BMC and what it would mean for the up coming contract. I never seemed to get a complete answer from anybody. I really belive our National office is teading water with all the differant issues the PO is coming at them with.
If you think about the structure or pyriamid of representatives starting from the bottom of every local ie..B.P.'s, Executive Board, Local Pres., on up you will notice that there isnt much distance between the bottom and the top. Im not sure how many reps are on the National payroll but couldnt the National have sent at least one to every BMC? Just a thought.

From my expereince the last thing you want coming into your facilty is a national officer. They may mean well, but they do not know the way YOUR facilty operates. I realize there are a lot of changes going on and we all need help and guidance from our national officers, but we (or at least I) do not want the national coming in and telling us that we have been doing something wrong for years and now we are at the mercy of the local management heirarchy.
What the local APWU officers do at the Cincinnati NDC is when they have a question or concern about something that is planned they call the Business Agent. The BA is somewhat familiar with the facilty and how it operates. They can then give guidance and assistance and give the local contract language and interpretations. The BA also has more access to the national officers and would get better responses from them, if needed.
The transition at Cincy NDC is not smooth, but it is contractual. For the most part I think the clerks at the Cincy NDC are pleased with the way the changes are taking place. We don't like all the changes, but we know the local officers are doing their best and keeping the members informed of when and why things are being done.
So, just in case I haven't said it lately, THANK YOU Local 7038 Executive Board.

kister does not care about the det ndc - as i said he's a waste and a thief

Well, you know what I've been thinking? Seems there are a lot of unhappy union members voicing their displeasure with the local officers. Here is an idea: immediately type a letter requesting to be a local union steward and mail it to your local executive board; then when the next election rolls around run for office.
What do you all think of that advice? Just an idea.

I'M DONE WITH THE MAILHANDLER UNION!!! I'M BETTER OFF SPEAKING FOR MYSELF!! YOU WILL NOT GET ANYMORE OF MY MONEY!! GO TO HELL!!

Amen Detroit

okay, what happened in Detroit now? I really do feel for you guys (and gals). Try to hang in there. Things have to get better, right? Change is never easy, and there are a lot of changes in the Postal Service right now. I wish I could do more for you all, but you have to go with what you got. It's a shame there are elected official out there who have no business being in the position of leadership for the union. Because of their lack of knowledge and their lack of desire the whole union suffers.
I make this plea to ALL UNION MEMBERS, when you vote do not vote for your friends. Vote for the people who will be able to withstand the onslaughts; who know the contracts; who care about the people; and who are willing to sacrifice their time and energy for the betterment of the whole.
Research and know whom you are voting.
Thank you, I will now step down from the soapbox. :)

Thanks for the support Leprechaun. I'm done! The union is a complete joke. I will not give them anymore money.

I understand your frustration in Detroit, but you can't change the situation in the Union from the outside. I urge you to stay with the Union and fight to make the necessary changes within the local. Get a group of people together and run against them in the next election. If you drop out of the Union you will have no say of who is in charge, but you will still be bound by the decisions they make. It is ALWAYS easier to change things from the inside of the organization, rather than from the outside.

Detroit NDC members voted in a new branch prez who didnt know his head from his backside, still dont after lots of training and they can blame themself for this mess for the most part.

I'm proud to say I did not vote for Don or Mike. But I'm just done with it all!

Hey Detroit i feel your pain our union at the cin ndc is also a complete joke. I am talking about the mail handlers union, the clerks have thier shit together. When Al Scott was elected president we had some stewards get completely out of the union thats right they quit the union for which they believed in. Some of these same stewards where quick to tell u, u dont have a greivance and managment can do that and they have a right to mismanage, when u bring a copy of the contract to debate your side they would laugh at u for bringing in the contact. Why are they not reading and researching to try to better they union seems they just want free time to sit in the union and get off the floor. At least the clerks union puts out a letter once a month keeping thier members imformed with whats going on our union doesn't tell us anything, so rumors fly around all over the place who the hell knows whats going on. Why wont the union file on everything even if they know its a no win situation, it does'nt hurt to try who knows maybe we might win u have to at least try. Even if they do decide to take your case they never keep u informed with whats going on, you have to hunt them down to ask whats up with my case, thier lack of communication is a joke to say the least. All you have to do is look at how many members have got out of the union the last 10 years, that says a lot about how people feel about the union. People are tired of paying thier union dews for this type of treatment from uneducated stewards who are selfish and lazy.

Cin NDC - As much as I try to keep up with our Union and those who represent I do not know of one active steward who quit the Union because of Mr. Al. Unless you're one of two stewards that he locked out of the Union Office on Tour 2 and had the locks changed....lol.

I agree that we should be filing on all contractural violations. Unfortunately some of our stewards on dayshift work harder to not file than they do to represent you. This has to change. On Tour 2, my steward for Inbound Docks fails to ever take us to a Step 1, much less a Step 2 meeting. Why!!! He doesn't hold Step 1 meetings. Instead of being untimely he approaches the SDO, has him sign a Step 1 Decision extension, and gives the SDO a copy of the grievance worksheet. There never was a Step 1 Meeting, in reality. You never had a chance! He hides from the craft he represents and doesn't have the decency to ever approach you and inform you of the status of your case(s).
Stewards get PAID a stipend to represent you!! They probably clear at least $175.00 quarterly! IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MUCH YOU'RE PAID!If you don't want to do the job, GET OUT!! Al Scott micro manages the stewards cases and right after you leave the office tells the steward not to pursue the case. It's sad that the two stewards I respect the most on Tour 2, not that I agree with them ALL the time, have the least amount of time in the office as stewards. That tells alot!

Stewards should NOT file on EVERYTHING if they know it's not winnable! This convolutes the whole process and takes time away from properly investigating real cases! What are real cases? Violations of the National Contract, the LMOU, OWCP and FMLA Law, etc... A real Union embraces the contract, it is our defining document. It is there for a reason! To be followed! How many times do you disregard the contract if it doesn't favor you? Are you really, Mail Handlers in general, a champion of the contract for you and your brothers and sisters or are you in it for yourself? That's a question you need to ask yourself!

For all of you, especially those on Tour 3, I am coming out of the closet. MH's on Tour 2 know who I am 'cause the same stuff I talk about on here I talk about at work also. My name is Creutzinger, Steven R.

Are you kidding me? Des Moines is having trouble getting the primary running? It will take till February to get it fixed? The whole NDC process in on hold?
Great foresight by management once again. I hear that MIN, CHI, or CIN may be moved up to a Tier 2.
Everything is back up in the air. Thanks, Des Moines! You gotta laugh at some of this - don't you?

Edited by author 10-27-2009 06:45 PM
Cincinnati will most likely become a tier 2 site. They have dedicated employees who have proven time and time again they are able to get the job done.

I hope you are right, Honored.

This post is to show the employees at other NDC's why there is such a dislike for the mailhandlers union at the Detroit NDC. Today one of our union stewards was told he was going to be excessed to saginaw, this steward has been heard bragging that he was safe, so this came as quite a surprise to him. Before this he has been very ho-hum about the whole situation, hanging out with management chatting them up while their doing craft work or sitting up in the union office, instead of being on the work room floor looking for contract violations. But all of a sudden he has the contract with him reading it like it's the Bible and he's on death row. Making every excuse why they cant send him. Your a steward u can be replaced by anybody with one day of training ,you weren't sworn in by congress. And with the retirees and excessed people leaving how many do we need. They have been no help so far anyhow, but now maybe they will get off their asses. Quit throwing the people your supposed to helping under the bus to save your own asses.THE PARTY AT THE DETROIT NDC IS OVER, LAST ONE OUT TURN OFF THE LIGHTS.

We have one of those at our facility. There has been talk about us being consolidated. She started bragging about how she and her buddy(another steward) get to stay. We have no problem if they stay, but let us in on the crap that they seem to know but won't tell us. In retrospect, I am not sure these folks know what they will be doing if they stay. There is a chance that the work might be harder with less people. The grass is not always greener on the other side. Hell, there may not be any grass at all. LOL

We have 45 mailhandlers in our building. Four are shop stewards. Rumor is that all will go except for three positions that will be needed. The talk on the floor is that if we are consolidated with another building 3 of the 4 stewards will stay. Funny thing is the stewards would all be going because they are junior. FPTO, what is the reason the steward has to go? I think that if and when these consolidations take place, there is going to be some grumbling on the floor.

We are excessing at our P & DC and now one of our union stewards is saying our branch president said anyone military gets to stay even if they are one of the junior mailhandlers that should go. Is this true? They said it is some rule that is not in the contract but when I asked him where I could find this rule to read about it, he didn't know where it actually came from.

We heard this same crap and could not find it in the CIM (contract interpretation manuel). Probably somebody trying to look out for a buddy. A guy that just retired said that everybody should read the contract and know what it says. Rest assured, people will be getting screwed if they don't have a clue.

Edited by author 10-28-2009 11:27 AM
I'm not gonna act like I fully know what I'm talking about on this topic but I believe some but not all get what's called veterans preference. I'm not sure if it would be in the contract or not cause it may be more of a government type rule.

vets have no protection during an excessing, either in or out of a facility, the only protection they have is during a reduction in force (RIF). The only protection they do have during an excessing is they can only be excessed into the same level position. This is explained under title 5.

Not only are the stewards ignorant...they are rude with nasty attitudes.

Edited by author 10-28-2009 08:29 PM
If the contract says you get 1 steward for each 25 employees and you have 100 employees and 4 stewards, then you lose 2 employees, now you only have 98 employees and therefor only entitled to 3 stewards, so one is no longer a Super Seniourty Steward and could be excessed if he is the junion employee. Officers, alternate stewards are not usually protected on CERTIFIED stewards with specific sections to represent. At least that is the way of the clerk craft.

Vets are #1 is 100% correct.

meme, Article 12 of the CIM (mailhandlers) says nothing about how many stewards stay. Our steward said the amount of stewards is for representation. However, excessing is a different thing. He said one thing has nothing to do with the other. One thing for sure, if we ever start excessing, his butt will be staying here. This will be so interesting to see how this plays out in other facilities.

Edited by author 10-29-2009 01:53 AM
Article 17.2
Representation
employees stewards
1-49 1
50-99 2
100-199 3
200-499 5
500+ 5 plus 1 steward for each additional emp.

If you are not a steward by the above MAIL HANDLER requirements, you are just an employee and can be excessed just like anyone else.

The Above article was taken from Your Mail Handler Contract. You may not get the guy you are gunning for but if there are too many stewards then some of them can be excessed.

I think this is going on in a lot of offices. It all boils down to how management is going to handle this. This really matters if you are in a smaller office. Our steward said get ready for the fur to fly after the start of 2010. She is prepared for anything. She wants to go to get outta here. After reading the posts, we think there are gray areas in this. Article 17 makes no reference to Article 12 and vice versa. I hope anybody that is going thru this continues to post here. Gotta go. Lunch is over and I gotta punch in in a few.

Thanks vets are #1. I hear so many things floating around now that they are excessing, but what you said would make sense because one of them was that only level 5 military could not be excessed, but level 4 military could be excessed. So I guess if there are no level 5 positions to excess them to, they would be able to stay. What exactly is title 5 and where can I read about it? I have no problems giving veterans what they deserve, but since I usually take the time to investigate everything I hear, I have alot of people asking me questions about what is happening, and I like to have actual facts to give them, not just more hear say.

I don't work in Detroit but I feel for you guys. I have a good friend who is a MH Steward and he laughs at many of the postings on this blog. I won't say where I work because I don't want to betray my friend, but he says it's funny how many people here read part of the contract and interpret it however it best helps them. For example if a facility has 51 MHs on T3, 24 on T2, and 21 on T1, that's a total of 96 MHs. They are still authorized 2 Stewards on T3, and 1 each on T2 and T1, and that doesn't count the BP. So the numbers in Article 17.2 do not mean steward per MH in the building. Also it is irresponsible of meme to post the language of 17.2 without posting the language of 17.3. Do yourselves a favor and go to npmhu.org and read the contract and the CIM for yourselves before you jump on the bandwagon of BS posted on a blog. I don't know if this is true or not, but my friend has also told me that a steward can be saved from excessing under 17.3, and if the numbers require less stewards then they will become alternates after the excessing, but still get to stay in the facility unless additional excessing is reguired at a later date. Don't believe the knee jerk rantings of idiots on this blog, research the truth for yourselves.

I researched and I have come to the conclusion that the stewards will stay if there is a position or job available for them. Get over it and realize that this is what the contract says. Next subject please!

did everyone see the campaign stuff from staten today ? here we go again, easier to slander someone who is not even running instead of standing on your own merits.

The whole damn union is crooked!

The whole Union is not crooked. It may be crooked in Detroit, but the National and the Cincy AWPU Local is very healthy and for the most part very helpful and useful.

Even with a crooked Union you are better off than if you had NO Union.

no doubt that was from staten, had some of his cronnies passing it out, heard the oig has obtained copies and is investigating. when i first read it i thought it was hicks but i did see staten this morning talking with mendez.. we do have fools amongst us

Why is staten running around with campaign material? He signed away all the pending cases from Detroit when he was on the board. Why is he even listened to. No wonder you elected Mendez.

Staten & Mendez are both dirt bags

Instead of everybody slamming the people who are in office, have been in office, or are running for office, let's talk about where our facility is going and ask those people running what they are going to do and how they are going to do it. Ask them how they would grieve contractual violations, specifically what would their grievance say and what sections of the contract and Postal manuals, or other material support the grievance. Listen to what they say and then read the contract and the CIM and see what they know and don't know. Our future is in the hands of the next group of elected officials. This election should not be about who we like, it is about who is going to fight for us. If you think somebody did something wrong when they were in office ask them to explain their actions. If they will not explain things to you they obviously don't want your vote. Sometimes we don't like what a union official does but they may have a valid reason for doing it. If you are interested in having a better union now is the time to get involved.

Good idea. Mike Staten, are you running for office and if so why did you sign away all of the pending cases for all of the Detroit district?

Excessing ( MH ): Whethrer you are a veteran or not, there is NO PREFERENCE. Only in a RIF/Layoff may thewre be protection for some veterans! The sad part is that when I was hired into the USPS in 1976, as it is today, you did not have to be a veteran to be hired into the USPS. Every veteran that was hired in at the time of my hiring got an additional 5 or 10 points. That was their preference! Now , I'm told that in a RIF/Layoff I could be laid off before a veteran with less than 5 yrs. service. What kind of BULLSHIT is that! Next thing I'll be told I'm not allowed to vote anymore, only veterans. In these STRESSFUL times people need to be careful of what they shove in people's faces thinkin' they're cute. Just my opinion.

The union has no power on the local level!!!! Especially 307 (Detroit) of course. I'm a member but have never been pro union. And with the representation we are receiving especially lately THEY SUCK!! Nuf said!!!

Right on Detroit NDC! I have always been pro union but with these crooked clowns we don't stand a CHANCE!!!! Sad, but true.

Are the Detroit posters mail handlers or clerks? Seems like either way you be better off taking the excess and coming to Cincy.
Just kidding!
You seem like you got a LOT of trouble in Detroit. BUt you need to do as Detroit BMC/NDC stated in his post. Ask a lot of questions (tough questions) and listen to the answers. Are they giving you valid CONTRACTUAL reasoning, or the same ol' bull. But remember, you have to listen to their answers with an open mind. Sometimes we may not like the answers, but if they are CONTRACTUAL, then we have to back them.
Remember the contract is basically UNFAIR. Just think about it: if the workers violate the contract we can be disciplined up to removal; if management violates the contract we get to file a grievance - IF we file it timely.

Cinci looks better than Detroit right now

The few minutes spent on this blog can never be enough to learn the actual cross reference contractual language of the already complicated National Agreement. Keep your eyes and ears open for some pretty quick changes coming to our house. Dont lose faith in the Union yet. If at all possible request to see a steward in the office where you can ask all the questions you need to know. Confusion can cause alot of adverse actions. Be innocent as doves yet wise as serpents. Management would love to walk all of us out for misconduct if we allow the fear and frustration to get the best of us. One unfortunate thing is at a time we all need relevent information we are going to start seeing crap like Staten put out. Bring in the clowns. Talk is cheap Mike. But loud cheap talk is even worse. Go ahead and convince those that don't know no better. Give them false hopes and pipe dreams about how great your going to be. Ha, you may be able to sway a few but the truth will come out and who will you blame it on this time; Garys gone.

 Hey RealityCheck,1976, your old ass hanging around is the reason many of us are being excessed, and maybe you should have gone to vietnam then you too would be safe, instead your biggest concern was hangingout and gettin laid. Not getting your ass shot off. Think about that next Veterans day when your sitting at home bitching and younger vet is forced to work.

staten is a joke--he filed a grievance for me but he withdrew it -overtime -that is pretty clear in the contract staten a wanna be- I want to withdrawl all your grievances - he's crap but so is kister

I hear alot of bashing going on here about kisner, you should ask some of the stewards around what has been transpiring during these meetings with management. basically he has been handing their A**es to them. Now, I don't know this personally, but I have asked and that is what I have been told. Ultimately all of us know that management is going to do what they want regardless of what Kisner says or what the contract says. this is nothing new. That little flyer that was passed out was actually pretty funny. Not to sure that the DOL can make anyone retire. If anyone remembers, during our last Branch Meeting, Kisner stated then that he was planning to retire. Not new news.

this is for all the NDC management who late at night while their punishing spouses are asleep slip away and take a peek. You are not exempt from all the pressures here at the DNDC. When Mr. Hatchet gets done and your performance is calculated in order to determine your future here there are going to be only a few left. I would suggest get rid af all of you since you dont know your asses from a hole in the ground. Its a shame that the last time mail was properly moved was over two years ago. Thats when Darwin walker was here. I thought at least one of you were going to step up to the plate. Boy was I mistaken for giving credit where it wasn't due. Dennis showed how ignorant he really is, Ramos, AL, Aida, Marilyn, and the Dunce Cap Kid Gholston really showed thier true colors....weve been following direct orders here for 33yrs. idiots, cokeheads, gossipmongers, fake christian want to be's, i guess when you go from inplant support to working at the P-1 that should say it all. Now scurry back to bed before the boogey man gets ya

Hey bmc2....don't forget Mendez.....he's CRAP too!

Hey FTPO - Vietnam was over when I graduated in 75 , dumbass! The USPS called me in 75 as a casual and 76 as a regular. I guess you think I should have turned it down since I hadn't yet enlisted. I hope for your sake that you were in the deep shit and not a REMF. I respect what veterans have done for this country. That includes my dad, and all my uncles. My Uncle Bill made SIX beach landings in WWII.Thank God he made it back. Uncle Al, no his wife was not Wendy, fought in WWI. Some made the choice to go, some were drafted, ... I think my Dad and Uncle Bill would say your a dumbass, also. No, I know they would!

Take this shit to the Veterans Forum......

FTPO said "Hey RealityCheck,1976, your old ass hanging around is the reason many of us are being excessed"

How old do you think I am? How about not quite 53! I'm not old enough to retire. And you know what.....I'm gonna make your day and retire on 2/15/2018! Do you comprehend what that is> 41 years, 11 months. That is considered FULL retirement in Postal lingo. If you're that worried about your future....then look for another career. I'm not responsible for your career development ... maybe you should have taken the 15K.

RealityCheck

Retirement at 41 years, 11 months, all that time and when you get down to it, you max out well before the 41 years and then you work for only 20% towards retirement, but then you also get a pay check every 2 weeks.

But the question is, is it really worth that extra time, when under FERS you really on get 1% of your high 3 years at retirement and their trying to change it to 1% of your high 5 years which will average out to less then the high 3.

Sounds like you need some extra thinking about retirement.

They are going to excess just as many whether people retire or not. They are just saying that to keep workers fighting among themselves. Maybe it'll give em an opportunity to fire some more if they do it on the workroom floor. Get a clue.

Seems like we are bashing each other more and more. Either on the workroom floor or on this site.
I am eligible to retire, but that does not mean I can afford to retire. I would love to be able to reitre - to leave all this madness behind me. However, with rising cost (most importantly health care cost for retirees) and less money coming in (if I retire) how do I provide for my family now and in the future?
Retirement sounds nice; $15,000 sound nice; leaving the headaches behind sounds real nice; but bottom line is I still need the USPS to provide for me and mine.
Hang in there - I am planning on going in two years. Hopefully, between now and then we will all grow up a little bit and quit fighting amonst ourselves. LATER!

virginia is crap too

Yep she is!

Hey guess what...it's happening in my building where I retired from. I have been gone 7 months. I talked to a former co-worker and she said all hell is breaking loose. Management moving people from tour to tour, picking and choosing folks for OT and crafts arguing amongst each other. They have put 4 people out of the building. Rumors spreading too. You were right on the money. Instead of looking at the real villain (management) we are bashing each other. MMMMM....makes one wonder.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA YOU GUYS R SOOO FUNNY. Its so wonderful to belong to a group of individuals with such a passion for critisim but are afraid to post real names. Will the real slim shady please stand up. All the worlds a stage and we all play the characters so so well. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE SHIT IS RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER AND GAINING SPEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!MY GOD WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH YOUR LIFE WHEN THERE IS NOONE LEFT TO TALK ABOUT? *^^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^**^*^%#%#%#%$#%$#%$#%$%$@%$# ^#@$%$^*%&%_(IPOMI_(_&YTG(%^C&WS#EURTYIUYBIUOIPMPUBNVCX#SXWEDYGUHI()NB<>>>>>>>.................................................Ok THAT FELT GOOD. Peace.

I am a CSRS employee. 41 years 11 months equals 80% retirement. If you go the full 41/11 any sick leave will gain you additional %. FERS is a different animal! At 56 I'll be eligible for 70%. I will go not before 56 or stay beyond 61 (80%). It all depends on finances. Like Leprechaun said you go when it's right for you. I really don't want to be beholden to another employer after I retire.

All you guys who are staying to get 40 years, right now you could be retired, work as a greeter at wallymart, and bring home more money.

Why are we delaying and destroying secondary mail in NDCs? Recirculation counts on the PSMs has been reduced to 5 (approx. 13 minutes) from 13 (approx. 40 minutes). If no clerks are working the slides in one aisle, and a slide is full, then the mail goes to missent, and has to be reinducted through the whole system. There was a much better chance to get mail out in a timely manner before, and in one piece! Now we send it back through all the conveyors, and the dreaded "Shredulator" (SSIU) to keep rewrap clerks busy!

Them guys in DC is dabomb!

Hey rant and rave what's your real name? I have been called Leprechaun by numerous people at work. After just two post I had several employees ask me if I knew "Leprechaun"
But just to make you happy, rant and rave, I am a dock clerk at the Cincy NDC with the birth name of Michael S. Monahan.
Any more questions?

So DNDC, who should be your new BP and new Local Prez? just curious if you guys think anyone is up to the task.

Hey lets get real people,clerks and mailhandlers or what ever craft you may be. We have a battle on our hands it's time to unite. How about some accurate information as what is going on in your facillity.

Edited by author 11-02-2009 09:29 PM
Accurate information? Are you kidding? In Cincy we were all set to send the mail to DSM and PIT and then DSM needs a part and everything is on hold until February. Of course that was Saturday and I have been off two days, so no telling what the "new, new plan" is.
How can we give "accurate information" when things are changing hourly?