http://www.stlucieco.gov/slctv/P_Z_OnDemand.htm Date: May 17, 2007

Stark Ranch and Gin-La Housing Development in Glades Cutoff Road
PZ-05- 07 3-I Ordinance No. 07-027 – Stark Ranch

AN ORDINANCE OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF ST. LUCIE COUNTY, FLORIDA, AMENDING THE ADOPTED COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FUTURE LAND USE ELEMENT TEXT TO CREATE A NEW FIGURE 1-7L STARK RANCH MIXED USE, LOW INTENSITY, FUTURE LAND USE DISTRICT INCLUDING SUB AREA POLICIES, AND TO AMEND OBJECTIVE 1.1.7 TO ADD TRANSITIONAL LAND USE DESIGNATIONS, AND ADD A NEW POLICY 1.1.7.6 CREATING A NEW MIXED USE DISTRICT – RURAL TRANSITION (MXDRT), A NEW POLICY 1.1.7.6.A. MXDRT LOCATION CRITERIA AND MINIMUM ACREAGE, A NEW POLICY 1.1.7.B. MXDRT DENSITY ALLOCATIONS, A NEW POLICY 1.1.7.C. MXDRT CONCEPTUAL OVERLAY, ALLOWABLE USES, AND MIXED USE STANDARDS, A NEW POLICY 1.1.7.6.D. MXDRT COMPATIBILITY, A NEW POLICY 1.1.7.E. LAND USE NEEDS/MARKET EVALUATION, A NEW POLICY 1.1.7.6.F. FINANCIAL FEASIBILITY/LIMITED TRANSITIONAL SERVICES, A NEW POLICY 1.1.7.6.G. ENVIRONMENTAL CONTROLS/SUITABILITY, AND A NEW POLICY 1.1.7.6.H. IMPLEMENTATION MECHANISMS; AMENDING THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP FROM AG-5, AGRICULTURE, 1 DWELLING UNIT PER 5 ACRES PERMITTING A MAXIMUM OF 763 DWELLINGS, TO THE PROPOSED STARK RANCH MXD LOW INTENSITY, PERMITTING A MAXIMUM OF 1,495 SINGLE FAMILY DWELLINGS AND 495 RESORT CONDOMINIUMS, 1 DWELLING UNIT PER 2 ACRES, WITH MAXIMUM COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT OF 200,000 SQUARE FEET, FOR A 3,814.74 (m.o.l.) PARCEL OF LAND LOCATED AT THE NW CORNER OF THE INTERSECTION OF GLADES CUTOFF ROAD AND RANGE LINE ROAD; PROVIDING FINDINGS; PROVIDING FOR APPLICABILITY; PROVIDING FOR FILING WITH THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF STATE; PROVIDING FOR TRANSMITTAL TO THE DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY AFFAIRS; PROVIDING FOR CONFLICTS; PROVIDING FOR SEVERABILITY; AND PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.

Re: The P&Z Meeting extension on 5/17/07, approximately 2:34 into the SLCTV presentation--

I am INCENSED that the Ginn/Stark Ranch people represent that they have spoken to the "norock.org and nosmog.org organization".

There is no such thing. My wife and I own the websites referenced and the IP of these sites is copyrighted, NO third party can speak for these names.

Further NO one has contacted us. For the applicant to claim that they have done so is an outright fabrication.

They have sullied our name -- neighbors have been calling us to ask why we spoke on their behalf -- something which we would NEVER purport to do and I find it absolutely unconscionable that The Ginn Company would make such false statements to the Board members.

Hi All,
 
A neighbor called us about the Stark Ranch and Ginn Corp. housing development along Glades Cutoff Road and Range Line Road. Mr. Bill Taylor told us about the mention of meetings with NoRock.Org, and having breakfast meetings with the people of Glades Cutoff and Carlton Road and Phil Stickles.
 
 So I went to county SLC-TV online and watched the meeting. Sure enough Ginn/Stark representatives mention the surrounding residents says "Whoo-pie" to the project, that we're delighted with their ideas, they have a list of people from NoRock.Org - 25 people- they met with regarding the project.
 
We are outraged with the developers' false statement and using our name and websites, as we are not aware this is happening or have never been invited to such meetings.
 
. First I would like to clarify that NoRock.Org and NoSmog.Org (i.e. Craig and I as management and owners) never and will never make decision for you, your opinions and never want to represent you in anyway. We have never authorized or want anybody to represent you especially via our websites.
 
We already notified the County Commissioners about the developers' false statement about using NoRock.Org, and hopefully the email will also be received by the P&Z board members.
 
The project has been denied "not to transmit" whatever that means. There was a mention of another meeting next month but not sure about it.
 
Thank you for reading this email, have a nice weekend.

Got this from the mail: Thanks Mr. Whitehouse. Appreciate it!

 "We received a new ERP permit application today for a new 260-acre limerock mine. If approved, it will be located at the D'Albora Groves, 1.5 miles northeast of the proposed Dickerson Carlton Road mine site. The applicant is a subsidiary of the Ginn Company, named Ginn-LA WSL Ltd.; LLLP.

They will publish a notice of application soon. "




                 Alan Whitehouse
                Bureau of Mine Reclamation
                2051 East Dirac Drive
                Tallahassee, FL. 32310
                (850) 488-8217, ext 37
             email: alan.whitehouse@dep.state.fl.us

Edited by author 01-18-2006 06:45 PM
Matt,

I'm sad because you don't know the implication of silicosis even among rock mine workers. I'm sad because of your ignorance to death of rock mine workers due to inhalation of dust. We worked with rock companies, those who are newly hired have no lung problems.After several years of working in the mine, these people started coughing & experiencing lung congestion, joint problems and sinus irritation. These illness even intensify with those people who smoke! There are places for such activities but not right next to residents, especially to children! There's a study on animals - such as chickens and horses who are exposed to rock mining and the study showed that they are also affected by the dust inhalation resulting to severe lung congestion and death. If you are an operator in a rock crusher, I would suggest you wear a mask that can filter PM 2.5 or less. After a days work, check the mask and see how much dirt you're getting. Or don't even bother wearing a mask, just clean your nostril.If you are the owner, I guess you're a happy person since you're getting a lot of money from the business while incapacitating the people that work for you. Remember the illness manifest itself after so many years through accumulation of fine particles and scarring of the lung tissues well even after retirement period! This is about protecting the irreplaceable health of the people

The purpose of the website is not to get rid of the mines in Florida but (a.)To put it in appropriate places far from residents,- such as the rock mines in Miami (b) To help & provide information to the county and its residents.

Thank you for the suggestion, but we already have REAL JOBS!!!!!Some are nurses, doctors, etc. We donate our time and even work after work hours just to serve and protect the community's health & well-being. In fact, Mr. Stickles- one of the residents, spent a lot of time finding a place for them to mine. He found one selling for $10M, right next to SR 70 at St. Lucie County, with no people around it. If Dickerson Florida bought the property and mine it, the revenue for them would have been billions of dollars!

The company is cheap and deceitful!If you want statistics and information. I would suggest spending some time and read all the articles posted on the website and other scientific journals, that's only a part of all the work we did, we have boxes and boxes of information about the proposed rock mine!

Thank you for participating in the forum.

YOU PEOPLE ARE SAD, I GEUSS YOU DONT LIKE PAVED ROADS AND MUST LIKE LIVING IN MUD HUTS!!!, MY FAMILY AND JOB DEPENDS ON MINING IN FLORIDA, YOU PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK, GO GET REAL JOBS!!!!!!

Edited by author 01-11-2006 08:44 PM
According to their website: the mining is reduced from 960 acre down to 300 acre. So what's going to stop them from doing the rest of the property if they got the permit...NOTHING!

Dickerson Florida & LBFH, Inc. are just a bunch of irresponsible, greedy people. Leave us alone and find your rocks someplace! The more time you fiddle with this questionable, destructive and health hazard mining right across the residents, the more time you'll be losing, finding a suitable place for your business!Put your effort more into Indrio mining area, you'll get more result there than trying to force this issue on us!

Please make sure an visit

http://www.petitiononline.com/crm10800/petition.html

thanks

Here's part of the agenda:
Approve warrant list No. 24

For Full list of Agenda:
http://www.stlucieco.gov/bocc2/bocc-calendar.htm

E. Request for a Public Hearing on Fort Pierce South (Florida Resources, LLC) Mining Permit Application – Consider staff recommendation to approve a public hearing to be held on April 19, 2005 at 6:00 p.m. or as soon thereafter to consider the request of the Fort Pierce South (Florida Resources, LLC) Mining Permit Application.

Stewart Mining at Indrio Road. I was told that the company bought the property too to mine. As per Dickerson Florida, LLC who said there is no rock left in the area, that they could not find any rocks anywhere and is willing to buy any. SO what does this proves then??? Share your thoughts!!!

We spoke to SFWMD & USACE and the permit applications were not pulled out of the reviews as according to LBFH, Inc. (whose one of the owner is also with the board of SFWMD, kind of weird, huh!), and Dickerson FL, Inc. have no desire to pull out the permits either! Reason: "they are going to investigate the history of the area!"

Why are these people wasting our tax money? Don't they realize that children and people are in the area already and why should they want to twist everything and jeopardize the safety and health of all the people living in the area? There's a property at SR70, big enough for them to destroy, the only thing is Dickerson FL has to come up with 10+million dollars, does this mean something? Let SFWMD & USACE reviewers do other better work than this!

If they are really concern about the people and given us consideration, they will pull out the permit and be done with it, and next time, not to plan their business around where people are existing, open your eyes and look at the surroundings!Do not pretend that people are not existing in the area and think they will "disappear"! Northwood, LLC offered this area first to a mining company other than Dickerson Florida. That mining company refused the offer due to the residents in the area - "too many people existing"!

To LBFH, Inc. and Dickerson Florida, if you are reading this message, please stop this nonsense, swallow your pride, accept the defeat, learn from it, and stop spending the taxpayers money! Leave us alone and get on with your other projects!

updated presentation made by Dr. James Kriseman about how silicosis does not occur in Florida Mining. Check Stat made by CDC.gov

http://www.norock.org/james_kriseman.htm

added new information on silicosis and related exposure on the website, including florida death statistics. Who says there is no silicosis in Florida, after all silicon is the second most abundant element on earth existing as quartz/silica.
Check under what's new!-month of december

added Dr. James D. Kriseman's speech at the BOCC and his credentials, etc.

I don't believe in what he says, about how negligeble the amount of silica content - 22% content, according to him. Remember it is the amount of exposure, how lognt eh person has been exposed and how much is accumulated in the lungs. As what the American Lung Association said. The small the body is the more severe the effects on the lungs.

It is so good to hear they cannot appeal it. It's such a relief! I'm guessing none of the commissioners changed their votes?? I didn't hear about that.


I agree with what Ms. Spengler said; St. Lucie County is populating much too fast.



Happy Holidays everyone!! As my mom said, what a wonderful Christmas gift to have this mine rejected.

Sonya Carnahan

Edited by author 12-11-2004 08:38 PM
Aftermath is always the best part

Mr. J.S. asked me why I did not include economic issue in the presentation. Just want to clarify my incoherent presentation, it would have been nicer if we were given more than 5 min and not timed as when somebody did when he presented his argument! Did you hear anything beeping with Mr. L.D.?

As for the economics,losing 1 mine is not detrimental to the county. Orange County has only 1 current active mine, CSR Rinker from Miami supplies majority of the rocks needed. Florida Rock has 1 holding facility in the county. Have they stopped "progress" and development of more roads and houses? Is the county suffering economically due to lack of mines? The only thing that will stop development, urban sprawl & nature destruction is population and its demand. If there are no people to demand for more, nothing will happen!
 
Also speaking from a source, Florida Rock can supply the county with rocks. They can supply all the materials St. Lucie County need. As what Mr. L.D. said in the recorded meeting, they are in competition with them.
 
Even if the last load of rocks has been utilized, house construction will not stop. More urban sprawl will happen, more natural resources and wildlife will disappear, in fact survey says, most people in Florida are getting tired of living here. Too much overcrowding, too much traffic.
 
I noticed that already at St. Lucie county, Just go to walmart, homedepot and publix, there won't be a time that you do not bump into somebody. It is getting populated too fast! And the county does not have the resources to accommodate the influx of people. If another hurricane come, we won't be there to fall in line just to buy food, water and gasoline!

Edited by author 12-09-2004 05:48 PM
Hey Phil,

So I can do the R.I.P. ceremony for norock.org and the carlton road mine pit then!

RESIDENTS OF GLADES AND CARLTON ROAD......

The County voted in our favor. The issue is now dead. The Board is not going to bring this issue up without holding another public hearing.

If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me directly.

phils127@aol.com
772-489-0603 Home
954-683-6851 Cell

Lets all - Relax, Enjoy & get on with our Lives.......

Response to "CG"
"CG" just a comment. If you have a question or wants to verify or any inquiry, please email us at norock.org. The guy who told me about the comment of being "STUPID HICKS" heard this comment himself,but he refrain from making a comment back or punching the guy!

"CG" please be careful -- the voting was as follows:

Mr. Smith -- against the residents
Ms. Lewis -- supporting the residents
Ms. Hutchinson -- against the residents
Mr. Craft -- supporting the residents
Mr. Coward -- supporting the residents

It is important that we post actual facts along with our opinions. I understand the voting may have been confusing but we MUST be careful about our posts.

Rumor has it that Dickerson is going to work very hard to change Mr. Coward and Mr.Smith to vote their way. They don't think they can change Mr. Craft. They will not give up until they have them "in thier pockets like Ms. Lewis and Ms. Hutchinson". As so rumor has it they are going to have someone write a letter to the county commisioners about the tax monies they will not be getting without the mine. One of the speakers at the meeting was from B&D Grading, That would be Mr. Charles Pallas's sons company and that was one of his sons. They had bumper stickers and t-shirts made up that said "THE MINE IS FINE" well I think it should say "THE MINE AINT FINE". The fight has just began. The drivers that would be coming out of that pit would be Sibony drivers and they have a bad driving records. Ask Larry Dale if he wants his kids standing on the side of the road with Sibony running up and down the road.

By the way, this red shirt person from Dickerson Florida who made a comment "THESE STUPID HICKS, they don't know what is good for them!" Are they also calling those people from PLZ -STUPID HICKS for voting against them?

Edited by author 12-09-2004 10:47 AM
This is really hitting below the belt! All residents at Glades Cutoff & Carlton Road are becoming nervous wrecks. First, Mr. Alan Whitehouse (FDEP) email said that the best source of rock in Florida is at Miami Lakebelt. Dickerson Florida's contract for road construction at St. Lucie county was withdrawn because their supply does not meet the DOT standard. Basically what their mining is of poor quality,even their truck drivers said that "what's coming out of the pit is garbage!" At the PLZ meeting, they claimed they paved almost all the roads at St. Lucie county. And yet they said they need the rocks to fix the ROAD FAILURES at the county. First of all who did it-Dickerson Florida. So why should we have more of the poor quality road constructed by them!Then, we documented almost all their trucks coming from Indrio pit are going north. It does not have a benefit to the county. St. Lucie county should start imposing royalty for every tons of dirt they haul out of the county!What's more I was told that Northwood, LLC offered the mine first to Stewart Mining and was turned down because there were too many people in the area and it is going to be a problem!Then Dickerson FL decided to take the offer and still does not even consider us as people. What's worse was a comment was made by the red shirt after the PLZ meeting "THESE STUPID HICKS, they dont even know what is good for them!" It happens to be that some people living in the area are nurse, college graduates, one works for SFWMD. We have somebody who has masters from M.I.T. and pHD-Manchester University, B.S. Marine Biology graduate, etc. If they think we are really that stupid and don't know anything about hazards of mining, this permit application would have not lasted for many months. NoRock.Org would be non-existent, noe of us would have stayed until 0030H@ 12/08 for the meeting! All commissioners,even Commissioner Hutchinson voted against the sand mine in the county where the first resident is a mile a way! This mine will be right on the doorsteps of the residents. One being inside the grove. So how fair is this?

By the way, did you know that Dickerson Florida has been mining at North and South carolina and they could not show any of those mines they reclaimed. I've seen Florida Rock and CSR Rinker reclaimed mines. You know what's surprising. Nobody on the county of North & South Carolina knows who dickerson is. Just look at indrio pit front landscaping (a piece of unkept front yard as opposed to Florida rock's well kept front yard! What about the keys . They never had a mine in there! Florida rock paved the Glades Cut off road.

Hi Sonya,

Still to be continued! Dickerson Florida is appealing to have this Dickerson Florida mine decision changed. Just think of all the lies those people have done! Right down to their doctor they brought at the meeting. Fortunately, we have a copy of the meeting, now they're really in even deep hole! I just found an article about the respirable dust and the respirable dust he's talking about is already claimed by EPA to be dangerous to health. I am just converting the meeting to digital form and get this doctor's picture on the internet, hopefully get his license revoked! What about the lies that Larry dale stated. They have never done anything to accomodate the people, in fact they even ignored we are existing and living in the area!Just look at Florida rock, Mr. Martin went into the trouble to call us to inform us of the meeting and to let us visit their facility anytime! Dickerson Florida finally paid their unpaid fines which was in collection for so many months. These people are so darn crooked and bad to the bone. We have given them a property to look at SR70 for sale, and Larry dale said he's willing to buy any property. But he is a lier, the entire group is really bad!

Edited by author 12-08-2004 01:20 AM
WE DID IT!!!!
Celebrate! :)


Sonya~

P.S. I was very impressed with everyone's comments. Practically everything was covered and I think the video clips were put together well. Now everyone can get back to their daily lives. What a relief. :)

updated the list of contact for St. Lucie County Commissioners, updated dec 07, 2004 flyer.

BOCC flyer modified and corrected the error.

I just want to thank everyone for showing up. Lets not lose focus and I look forward to seeing everyone sunday and if not than at the next meeting , which is the Board of County Commissioners meeting, scheduled for 12/7/04 at 6pm in the same room

Thanks Philip,
I will see you Thursday.=)

Sonya C.

Sonya,

It is standard government practice as was witht he first original meeting that they have to schedule all the meetings for a particular topic with certain guidlines.

for example, the P&Z meeting is set for 10/21/04 and subsequently the BOCC meeting is scheduled for 12/7/04. Now that takes into account everything goes ok at P&Z. If not then the BOCC Meeting would not happen and would be rescheduled.

hope this helps

Edited by author 10-16-2004 04:38 PM
Hello Craig and Philip,

I'm all for going to the meetings and opposing this mine. What do you mean about important information? I will most deffinately be at both meetings, but I thought it was up to Planning and Zoning for it to go through to the Commissioners. I think it's urgent for us to be a the meetings, but it confused me that the date had already been sent for the Commissioners, ya know? And I probably wrote that wrong, but what I meant when I said why are we wasting our time, I was thinking we should go straight to the commissioners, but whatever it takes to get them to oppose this, I'm not giving up on our fight!!

Sonya Carnahan

Writer #33, who are you? You seem to have some important inside information, and if it helps us fight this Dickerson proposal, please contact us so we can use it to succeed!!

I don't agree with your premise -- our elected officials have set up the P&Z structure to help them make good decisions -- if the public doesn't show up at EVERY public hearing, then the public's concerns are not heard. We MUST attend. The days of back room political deal-making must be dissolved in favor of transparency.

Let me take it one step further. Public participation in government IS our American form of government. To be so cynical as to walk away from our responsibilities as Americans is reprehensible.

Yes, we urge all people from St. Lucie county to attend all the meetings related to this Dickerson Florida Mining including the Planning and Zoning meetings. Just remember, it is not only the people at Carlton Road who is going to be affected. It will be all the people at St. Lucie County- just think of where Germany Canal and C24 Canals go -the floodings when the hurricane hit the county. Just remember Tampa running out of potable water and the Mulberry/Piney Point-IMC-phosphate mine that is up to now a disaster zone, Mississippi flooding, etc. Army Corps of Engineers, FDEP and SFWMD do not care of what will happen to the county. All they care is how much taxpayers money they can spend! The welfare of the county depends on what the St. Lucie government -i.e., PLZ,Commissioners, public,etc.- wants to do with itself. So we urge all to attend the meetings.

The Commissioners meeting is set for Dec 7, 2004 @ 6pm.

As far as P&Z goes, it is very important that we have as many people there as possible. Win or Lose correct it is still in the hands of the commissioners, but it is VERY IMPORTANT to be at all the meetings up coming if we are going to win this.

It is a long fight and has been since March 2004 and will probobaly continue for many more

Here is a great quote from one of the most inspirational speakers I have ever heard. Head basketball coach for NC State who died of Cancer and started the "V" Foundation for cancer research.

"Don't give up, don't ever give up" Jimmy Valavano

That statement says alot. Lets all keep positive no matter what happens in Planning and Zoning and show up so they know we are serious.

Is it a good thing the commissioners meeting is already sheduled? Apparently P&Z have no say in it going to the commisioners, so why are we wasting our time with them? Does it make a difference if the meeting is already scheduled for the commissioners?

Yes, we got too, though there were just a few listed name on the list at the end of the letter.

I sent an email to Howard Hayes of how many mines have been denied so far he mentioned only one!They only started taking charge of the permitting in 1995.

I don't really know who hired all these people who think rubber stamps is the best invented object! Possibly, it looks like they need more work to do to keep their hands away from the rubber stamps!

Hello!
I received a certified letter from the Department of Environmental Protection of the State of Florida with the notice of intent and aerial maps. Did anyone else receive one of these? Just wanted to let you all know that.

Sonya Carnahan
11470 Carlton Rd.
Port St. Lucie, Fl. 34987
468-7497
812-9150

I agree with "flooding at Carlton Road". You are apsolutely correct.

11470 Carlton Rd.
Port St. Lucie,Fl. 34987

I hope SFWMD sees this flooding problem. This is a result of pumping out water from the grove area to keep them from flooding! If they approve this Dickerson Mine who will be pumping water 24x7 days a week, we will be more than 2 feet of water at Carlton road, and all the people at St. Lucie county city area and near the st. lucie county river will be flooded more than 3 feet of water during seasonal flooding and hurricane season! SFWMD personnel cannot even get to their floodgate station to refill the tank of their generator due to flooding!

Here are some pictures of the aftermath of Hurricane Jeanne. I hope everyone came out of the hurricane ok. My mom, sister, and I rode out the storm at my house. There were a few leaks but no serious damage. Take care everyone and stay safe.
God bless,
Sonya C.
Ft. Pierce, Fl.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/weather/conte...torm/photos/jeanne/

Wow, where did all of this rain come from? Everything is more so flooded than the aftermath of Hurricane Frances. Is this from Jeanne? I heard it was from Ivan. Wishing someone could dig out the ditches...
Sonya C.

Thank you for the meeting updates. I look forward to seeing you all again, but I don't look forward to the meeting. Take care and I hope the rains aren't too much of a convenience for you!!

I don't know how could he possibly say that we need such hurricane to clean up the river. I would like to point out that the coastal areas/beach would be free of silt and mud due to huge wave action, but the rivers will be full of silt and mud from erosion from properties lying near the canals that lead to the rivers possible several feet added on the existing mud.

New updated meeting posted,
dickerson florida - sept 30, 2004 @6pm
florida rock october 5, 2004 @6pm

Sorry for a bit of the delay, working on several satellite imagery of mines all over America

link: http://www.norock.org/meetings.htm

Nelly,

Is the meeting on October 5 for Florida Rock or Dickerson?
I've seen meetings scheduled on here for the 21st and the 30th of September, so I don't know which dates are right. Was the meeting for Florida Rock on the 14th cancelled? If not, were they granted their permit for expansion?
             Thanks,
             Sonya Carnahan
P.S. I'm glad everyone survived the hurricane and there was no structural damage to neighbors' homes. We are all ok also. =)

Mr. Robert Martin called this afternoon informing us of the October 05, 2004 meeting with the commissioners. Same time at 6pm

I hope everybody is fine after the hurricane. The eye of the hurricane passed Carlton Road. We suffered a few broken pine trees, but no structural damages on any of the infrastructure. We are very glad that the trees and foliage were there to protect the buildings.

I heard that several electric & telephone poles fell down at Glades Cutoff road @ Hocks after clearing and digging the canals. It would probably been better if the shrubs were left behind!

new updated pictures showing the proposed road by Dickerson Florida:

http://www.norock.org/new_proposed_mine_road.htm

Hi thanks for posting a link to the flyer, I appreciate it. I gave out a few of the flyers, and I had four stores put one up in their window, which is helpful. My mom took one into the PGA village and the woman at the counter said she would give it to the director, which is good because they need to be aware of the traffic that will be coming through the Reserve Commerce Center. I plan to make copies of them, and hand more out, if anyone has any ideas of where I can hang one up, let me know. My email address is:
lilangeleyes704@hotmail.com
and my phone number is 772-468-7497

Sonya Carnahan
11470 Carlton Rd.
Port St. Lucie,Fl.34987

flyer is available for download and distribution:
here's the link:
http://www.norock.org/meetings.htm

Hey NPS,
You're welcome, I really like the comic section:). I would like to have a flyer that shows the intent of Dickerson Inc. and shows the next meeting date and a name and phone number to call for information about the mine and dates. That way I can make copies and put them up.
                          Thanks,
Sonya Carnahan
11470 Carlton Rd.
Port St. Lucie,Fl.
34987
772-468-7497

Thanks for the complement. Check the comic strip section. Here's the link: http://www.norock.org/mining_workshop.htm-just copy and paste.

I have not seen the palm beach post article.Don't expect questions to be answered in the next meeting. As I don't think there will be an answer. FDEP still has not answered all my questions which I will be posting. Hopefully this week. By the way what flyer do you want? The meeting for planning and zoning or a flyer to let people know about the mining and norock.org?

Edited by author 07-06-2004 06:12 PM
Hey,
I've never been to the message board, didn't know we had one. I am Jackie Carnahan's daughter. Has anyone seen the Palm Beach Post today? Under the LOCAL section, there was an ad about the mining workshop. I've been searching through the site trying to locate the ad so I can post the link on the site or send it to Mr. Spengler. By the way, Jim Reeder, the publicist mentioned 'Nelly Spengler'in his ad. NPS,I am in much agreement with what you had to say on the forum. And what was said on the web site, about the mining workshop being lop-sided, you got that right! That was such a waste of time, I can't believe they expected us to just sit there and listen to it. Hopefully our concerns will actually be answered and listened to at the next meeting. If someone could possibly send me a scanned flyer through the net to my email, that would be great. I would like to put up plenty of flyers wherever I see a bulletin board.

                            Thanks,
                              
Sonya Carnahan
11470 Carlton Rd.
Port St. Lucie,Fl.
34987

There are other places where miners are wanted by developers, and in fact advertising it. Dickerson said if there is any place they can go they would rather not do it there! But this is a bigger piece of property 964 acre - LOTS OF PROFIT FOR THEM, close to where they want to deliver the materials.
If limerock mining is not detrimental at all, how come more and more people are complaining about it -not only the layman but also hydrologists,ecologists and other environment specialists that are employed in private sectors! Come to look at it,
According to Blue Field Ranch Mitigation Bank:
Mitigation Banking significantly reduces permitting timeframes, from 9 – 18 months for traditional mitigation to 2 – 4 months for Mitigation Banking.
Developers across Florida have saved between $20,000 and $40,000 or more per acre by mitigating with bank credits instead of traditional on-site or off-site mitigation.
So why are we favoring miners? $12,000.00 for FDEP and SFWMD permit fee is not much - a pocket change to dickerson florida. Did you also noticed that miners do not really want to own the properties they're mining and donate it to the government! They rent and rape the place and go on with the next property.
[HJH response] The obligation to reclaim runs with the land. The landowner is also considered a mine operator and is obligated to reclaim the land.

Edited by author 06-22-2004 11:26 PM
deleted messages were added to letters sent section.

A new message has been posted by Kim C at PSLBuzz board. To read it, click on the link below:

http://pslbuzz.ipbhost.com/index.php?showt...348&st=0&#entry8915

Edited by author 06-22-2004 10:35 AM
A news article has been featured at St. Lucie county Hometown news - to see this details:click or type the following link:

 http://www.hometownnewsol.com/psl.html and scroll down to read the article.

Waiver has been applied again for the dewatering permit, moved to September 9, 2004

"let's do landfill in area filled with water, and let's dig up a different area to recover the flood/water runoff, fill those mine pit for future source of water?

Basically this is what they are doing!At who's expense, tax payers!

June 29, 2004 is fast approching.Nobody knows who's going to be at the meeting to "educate" the staff of st. lucie county and the public about mining!

Will the guests be pro-miners? How come St. Lucie county will not let the people know who the guest speakers will be?

Aren't we paying the taxes that will pay for the invited guests chosen by who?

Edited by author 06-03-2004 05:00 PM
Kevin Rohrer from SFWMD called 1541H today regarding my comment to Fran about the permit. (that was a quick transmittal!)

Now he is changing his story, now we can access the permit eventhough a permit has not been issued yet! So there is no such thing as "government policy" as what he had told me previously. I was being accused of misunderstanding him and not understanding his English! I told him, I may not be a fluent English Speaker but my vocabulary is extensive, and my memory is still 100%

I was getting rude (excuse me) but who would not be!If you're future is being decided by somebody and that decision is still dangling in the air. You can't sleep every single night thinking what will happen next! Somebody deciding for my future. Who would not be upset with that! Several people who are affected by the proposed mining are spending their free time attending meetings everyday, finding out what's happening, making flyers etc. Everybody in the affected area is pre-occupied by the proposed mining!

So he claims he has been working as a water resource engineer for 25 years with a degree on geology. But he is not an ecologist, he's an engineer!

I'm just getting so annoyed with not seeing the original papers that were submitted to them, that's all! People should be allowed to see the original permit and the modified permit! After all it's not them who's getting affected by the mining!

Edited by author 06-03-2004 10:43 AM
Spoken to several people about the appplication #031027-11 permit#56-01819-w.



According to Fran x907 -meeting is not going to be held on june, Dickerson Florida filed a waiver - meeting not going to be held by the governing board.

We have been going around in circle here and spoken to people and cannot tell us or will not tell us what is going on with the permit.

So I asked her when is the meeting for the governing board because we want to attend. She said it is probably going to be July. Kevin Rohrer is still waiting for EPA for something to clear up.

I feel like we have been denied of rights here! It is our future they're holding on their own hands, and we have no "say" about the matter!

Do you agree with me that 100% of the people does not want to live near a mining pit? It's DUSTY, NOISY and UGLY – lets put it in a gentler way – aesthetically unpleasant to look at! Your house including your AC air handler, trees, plants and surroundings are covered with white dust. Windows are always shut closed. You don't even feel like going out because it’s sticky and dirty. I have yet to see anybody welcome dust of clouds with open arms! They always flinch and cower!

When the mining company starts blasting using dynamite, you're always worried if you will still have your building foundation after the blasting. Will the walls, floors, windows, posts, foundation, pipes and septic tank (we can't forget what's buried underground) suffer cracks that will devalue the worth of your property? How often do you have to clean the air handler of your AC? Will you still have water in your well to pump out for daily use and to irrigate the crops and water the livestock? How much attorney fees you have to pay and the sufferings you have to endure to claim for all these problems? So it goes on.. And on.



So you decide you don't want to live near a mining pit. Factors that you may want to consider before taking such action:



Can you even sell the house and property?

How much will it cost to get a house inspector to check for damages and how much to fix it?

How much can you sell the property or what will be selling price?

Will you loose money or gain money from the sale?

Can you convince anybody to buy the property when you have to disclose to the buyer that soon you'll have a mining pit as neighbor?

How long will it take to find a place to move and will you even find one as similar and as remote as this? (It took us 8 yrs.)

How much will it cost you to move everything, including your livelihood to the new place? So to all the authorities involved in deciding for our future, it is not a simple matter to put a mining pit where people are living. Especially, when these residents were there ahead of Dickerson Florida and the area is zoned for agriculture and not mining!

this is a test.

People will receive email and a link will be included. Click on that link and you will be forwarded to the discussion site.