Thanks so much for this! This is exactly what I was looking for

mirc mırc eski mirc script indir irc komutları mirc indir kameralı mirc sohbet mirc indir mırc indir mirc mırc mirc yükle mirc download islami sohbet dini sohbet islami site islami chat kelebek kelebek script kelebekscript kelebek.gen.tr kelebek.com kameralı mirc indir kameralı mirc kameralı sohbet chat chat yap chat sohbet chatsohbet çet çet sohbet çet odası sohbet kanalları izmir sohbet kanalları sohbet odaları aşk sohbet odaları chat odaları soru cevap sevgili sevgili bul arkadaş arkadaş ara arkadaş bul arkadaşlık bedava sohbet arkadaşlık sitesi arkadaşlık siteleri partner erkek arkadaş bayan arkadaş oto araba mp3 astroloji zoydak nedir cep telefonları gazete marifetname bedava domain ücretsiz domain bayii parça kontör bayiliği bayii online kontör

Has anyone read or discussed the anti-american and anti-viet nam war book, "The New Soldier" written by Kerry in 1971? I just heard about it today and would like to hear more about this. Why too hasn't this been made an issue? I hear Kerry is buying the available books so people cannot read it and know his true colors.

Please note the Kerrey referred to in the following two messages should be "Joseph R Kerrey" not "John F Kerry."

To Max Friedman: In response to your comments, I find an eye-witness (Klann) to the murders ordered by Kerry is very impressive evidience. I understand the liberal agenda is to discredit anyone coming forward and telling the truth--but Klann has a very impressive war record himself.

Vistica--in his non-ficition well-researched book, "The Education of Lieutenant Kerry" spent two years investigating. Kerrey admits to ordering the throats cut of two elderely Vietnamese--and he partook in holding down an old man while Klan cut his throat. Klann states while he and Kerrey were killing the old man, their other teammates cut the throats of the children. Hmmm--if YOU took part in something like that would you admit your guilt?--or would you do what Kerrey's team has done--stick together to protect their own asses!

When 60 Minutes II, investigated in Vietnam, they confirmed Klann's version of the story with Vietnamese who did NOT know what Klann had said.

Again that is very good evidence.

AS far as Kerrey's Medal of Honor--even his teammates state he was recomemned for a Bronze Star with a "V"" device by those WHO WERE ON THE GROUND! It was upgraded by political Navy officers to a MOH. Disgusting at best.

I am convinced--beyond a reasonable doubt--that Kerrey is a war cimminal and wears a phony MOH. Ia slo find it disusting that HE is a terrorist of the worst kind ( a REAL baby killer) and he served on the 911 Commission!

I do not support war crimminals--they make it very difficult for those of us who had to stay behind and fight the ARMED enemy.

If you wish to discuss this further-contact me directly by email: www. zlotnikde@myvine.com ( Stand behind MY word.)

Donald E. Zlotnik, Major (Ret.)
Special Forces

To Major Donald Zlotnick: Don't know where you got your "evidence" that Kerry ordered/had civilians killed by slitting their throats, etc. but the After Action Summary Report makes no mention of civilians being killed, nor of hand-to-hand contact.

SEALS do not keep on going into an area once discovered. They are supposed to pull back because their presence has been compromised. I got this from SEAL veterans of NAM.

Also, the individual who claimed that he slit a civilian's throat is not a reliable source as no one else in the unit that night can verify anything he has claimed.

Those killed were hit by small arms fire conducted while the unit was taking fire. The bodies were found after the action had ceased, but there are some gaps in the information as to how long the action lasted, how many enemy were involved (two weapons were listed as recovered), about 17 bodies found, etc.

If it was totally dark that night (and the Delta can get damned dark - I couldn't see my hand in front of my face when I stood on the ramparts of an ARVN outpost deep in the Delta), then in the confusion of a firefight, civilians probably were accidentally killed.

There is no evidence so far that the SEALS started the action. They were apparently discovered before they could get to the VC meeting they were supposed to attack.

Kerry has mentally caved in to allegations about a war crime that in all provability never took place. He is now on a perpetual guilt-trip, induced by a possibly unstable former colleague and North Vietnamese propaganda.

If you have any solid "evidence" that contradicts what I have said, please post it here. I'm not interested in suppositions, supposes, maybe's, people said, etc. That doesn't hold water in court or with me. I want facts - not wild guesses.

And since John Kerry has admitted to committing "war crimes" by H&I, firing on villages, etc., why not demand that he be tried as a self-admitted war criminal? What do you think of them apples?

RE: Session 3: The Winter Soldier Investigation, Testimony given in Detroit, Michigan, on January 31, 1971 and 2, 1971.

The following "testimony" was presented which is false and misleading. On November 16, 1969 the US Special Forces Camp at Bu Prang, Quang Duc, South Vietnam was attacked by artillery fire from Cambodia a few miles to the North. In response to this attack, in self-defense, the weapons firing on the camp were attacked by USAF F-100 aircraft. These aircraft were at all times under the control of a USAF Forward Air Controller (FAC) flying in the area and marking the location of the guns with smoke. There were no buildings within miles of these guns. The attack was not in response to the shoot down of the "observation plane"; it was in response to their artillery fire. I know, I was the pilot of that aircraft.

In addition, the "testimony" has been recently edited for some reason.

George Lattin
USAF Retired
glattin@prodigy.net

The Winter Soldier Investigation, Testimony given in Detroit, Michigan, on January 31, 1971 and 2, 1971.

"I want to conclude by briefly mentioning another very serious violation concerning conventional weapons, the results of which I personally witnessed and photographed in Cambodia. This was about 200 miles north of where the defoliation occurred. It was an attack upon a Cambodian anti-aircraft position in late November 1969 in which 25 Cambodian soldiers were killed by 500-lb. bombs by F-100 fighter planes. It is the post at Dak Dahm, which is right across from the Special Forces camp at Bu Prang. I don't know if you people know where that is, up in the central highlands. Now, the reason for the attack was that the Cambodians had defended their air space by shooting an American observation plane, shooting it down, that had been flying over them. In response, the United States Air Force attacked this position, killed these Cambodian soldiers and attacked a hospital. I'll show you the destroyed, well-marked hospital; and they also attacked an ambulance".
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/sixties/.../WS_10_Weapons.html

"Now, I want to conclude by showing you--I just can't resist showing you--what happened to the Cambodians at Dak Dahm. That is a Soviet thirty-seven millimeter aircraft gun, which they have every right to have, and it had fired at an American plane. While we were there, we saw at least three aircraft openly violate, fly right over, right across Cambodia--American aircraft. The whole gun crew here was killed, of course.
(Next Slide) Here's a trench. About fifteen of them were dug out of this trench where they were taking cover. On the skyline there is Vietnam and the Special Forces camp at Bu Prang. We can see it. What made the Americans mad and was that they want to be able to fly over Cambodia to maintain good aerial reconnaissance and because the Cambodians had the gall to defend their air space, they decided to take out this post.

(Next Slide) There is the smashed up hospital. And it was well-marked. There were bomb craters about one hundred feet away from this. We picked up medicine, etc. The point about this hospital was it was at least a quarter of a mile from the gun positions. It was deliberately attacked. I'm ashamed to have to...it breaks my heart to have to say this about...what our government had done. Whether this is an aberrant phenomenon, I don't know...but I saw this with my own eyes. Here are the broken bottles.

(Next Slide) This is Art Westing down in one of these craters. This is a five hundred pound bomb crater. This is the one that knocked over the hospital. It was not aimed at the military installation at all".

http://lists.village.virginia.edu/sixties/.../WS_11_Weapons.html

Dear Quang Tri Gio, war is atrocious and criminal, and this message should have been clearly conveyed to Hanoi ideologues before they started killing non-communist nationalists in 1945. Had Ho Chi Minh been willing to work with the Dong Minh Hoi, Viet Nam Quoc Dan Dang, Dai Viet, Hoa Hao and other groups, Viet Nam would have achieved independence sooner and without so many dead. Instead, Ho Chi Minh began killing non-communist nationalists from 1945 on. What other means were available to stop people who by definition wanted to annihilate all non-communist opposition by any and all means possible? Hold Anger management seminars? Conflict Resolution Classes? America "gave peace a chance" after 1975 and since then Viet Nam, Laos and Cambodia have been veritable cesspools of corruption, poverty, malnutrition, injustice, and any other social/moral ailment one can imagine. Hanoi exploited and manipulated the "anti-war" elements overseas, so it could wage a more lethal war. Try walking through South Bronx at night with a "Make Love, Not War" t-shirt and see how far you get. Sorry Mr. Quang Tri Gio, your idealism has been trumped by Hanoi's deceitful fascism, and the people of Southeast Asia have paid the price for such misplaced and inapplicable sentiments.

But war itself is atrocious and criminal by its nature!

War crimes and atrocities were NOT condoned in Vietnam--but!--as long as we allow individuals like ex-senator Bob Kerrey to go unpunished for authorizing war crimes, we cannot condemn other nations! There is evidence that Ex-SEAL, ex-Senator, ex-Govenor, Medal of Honor holder--Bob Kerrey ordered and participated in the throat cutting of five unarmed Vietnamese--three of them small children and the rounding up and murdering of more than 20 women and children--one a baby. Kerrey has used his MOH, from another highly questionable "fight" (Seven Navy SEALS-vs-SEVEN sleeping VC) to hide behind.

We are a much better nation than that and if we cannot wash our own dirty laundry--expect more atrocities from our troops in combat. Note: It is up to the OFFICER to keep his troops in line!

My agenda? Simple: WAR CRIMES CREATE A MORE DETERMINED ENEMY!

Donald E. Zlotnik, Major (Ret.)
Special Forces

I welcome your comments to this session where we will discuss the Winter Soldier Invesigation and its contribution to the myths about the Vietnam Veteran. To return to the Session Page go to http://www.viet-myths.net/Session03.htm